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== Nishidani == ==Ethiopian Epic==
{{hat|Topic banned from ] --] <sup>]</sup> 19:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning Ethiopian Epic===
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Tinynanorobots}} 11:23, 12 December 2024 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Ethiopian Epic}}<p>{{ds/log|Ethiopian Epic}}</p>
===Request concerning Nishidani===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 19:38, 2 May 2012 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Nishidani}}
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> <!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced:] ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> <!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. --> <!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# created during the Yasuke case and went active when it ended. First 11 edits were to Government of Japan. In one case three edits were used to write one sentence.
# Removed "Militants were launching rockets into Israel from the area, and Hamas was known to conduct operations..." along with other sourced material
# Removed "Militants were launching rockets into Israel from the area, and Hamas was known to conduct operations..." # Manually reverted the lead back to how it was in September.
# Falsely Claimed cited material was OR. (G
# Falsely Claimed cited material was unsourced
# It took an ANI report to get him to use the article talk page. His defense was accusations and denial.
# He reverted to a version that went against consensus established on the talk page and contained a falsely sourced quote.
# Engages in sealioning
# Removes a well sourced line from Yasuke as well as reverted an edit that was the result of BRD. He has now started disputes with me on all three Yasuke related articles.
# starts disputing a new section of
# Brought again to ANI, he claims that I didn't get consensus for changes, even though I had discussed them on talk prior to making them.
# He keeps mentioning ONUS, and asking me to discuss it, in response to me discussing.
# Used a non-controversial revert to hide his edit warring.
# did the same thing on List of foreign-born samurai in Japan.
# He also repeatedly complains that he doesn't like the definition because it is vague and claims that his preferred version is "status quo"


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) :
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. -->
# Explanation
He was party in original case and he was ] as the result of it.
# Explanation


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):[
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : In addition to violating 1rr, whether deliberate or unintentional, Nishidani was advised to revert his last edit by , , , and Ed Johnston who "unless you see a BLP violation against a named person or an obvious falsification of sources it seems like you should revert your own edit pending discussion." Nishidani has declined these requests, despite acknowledging his violation several times: He is an experienced editor that has for edit-warring on I-P topics.His indefinite I-P ban was lifted by Arbitration committee in July 2011
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
@Tim : I don't understand what "ludicrous" about asking harsh sanctions for person that refused to self revert and have returned from indefinite ban.Its not like someone reverted him again he was given full possibility to fix his mistake but refused too.--] (]) 12:21, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on (see the system log linked to above).


@Sean:I don't think his presence is a good to the area.Here is few one example of violation of ]:
* accuse other editors here of "hasbara", of "toeing" an "Israeli political line"
* Accusing other editors having "ethnic ]"and "acking the serenity to look at the question encyclopedically,"


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- Add any further comment here --> <!-- Add any further comment here -->
I have decided that Misplaced Pages is not worth my time. I want to write about history, not get caught up in wikipolitics and intrigue. There are systematic problems with wikipedia, where it is difficult to come to a conclusion to a discussion and openness is discouraged. Seeking help or advice with an issue opens one to the accusation of forum shopping or canavassing. One is expected to be perfect, but it is unclear what perfect is. Admins complain that a recall petition that lasts more than seven days is cruel, but drag out ArbCom processes and ignore AE threads for days. This whole process has been miserable. ] (]) 16:35, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :

<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

===Discussion concerning Ethiopian Epic===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

====Statement by Ethiopian Epic====
This is clear retaliatory filing because I recently didn't agree with Tinynanorobot's , and because I made talk page sections on some recent edits.

@] That's not true and you are a very obvious alt account with only 26 edits. No one gave you a notification of this discussion and it's not on the Yasuke talk page. This suggests you are the sock puppet of someone here. Your post is also misleading and incorrect it wasn't an insertion. The line you are talking about in Samurai has been there for over 10 years and is normal. I know because I've read it before. Here is a version from 2017 . I don't understand why you are misrepresenting edits and using an alt account.

@] I think he is just fishing. That's why he removed his IP claims. Even his other diffs are just mislabeled regular behavior. It's amusing because Eronymous is the likely alt of Tinynanorobots or someone posting here. I think the way Tinynanorobots edits against clear consensus, skips discussion, and then files frivolous ANI/AE reports with misleading narrative like above is disruptive. Discussion is an easy solution and benefits everyone. I hope he will respect RFC consensus.

{{ping|Barkeep49}} Tinynanorobot's recent "do-over" comment above is likely an attempt by him to hide the negative admin response to his own conduct and his fishing here. He shouldn't be able to remove the admin response to his report, so that he can do more fishing, before the admins even make their decision. It seems like gaming AE. He also recently disrupted the samurai talk page by hiding the comments of other users with a misleading edit summary.

@] I wasn't sure if it was drive-by vandalism by ] (I don't have deep context but he is mentioned by name) so I made sure to respect 1RR. I made a talk section I'll let other editors handle it. ] (]) 22:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

====Statement by Relm====
I am largely unfamiliar with the account in question, but I do frequently check ]. I believe that EthiopianEpic has displayed a clear slant and battleground mindset in their editing in regards to the topic of Yasuke, but that their conduct on the Yasuke page itself so far has generally been in the ballpark of good faith edits. The revert on December 9th was justified, and their topic on November 29th is well within bounds (though I acknowledge that the background of their prior disputes on other pages with Tinynanorobots shows it may be edit warring) given that the two things being reverted was a change that seemed to skirt the prior RFC with agreement being given in a very non-direct way, and the other portion being an addition which had not been discussed on the talk page prior to its implementation (though previous discussions ered on the side of not including it). I am ''not'' accusing Tinynanorobots of any misconduct in any part of that either.

What I will note is that in addition to the sockpuppet IP allegations made by Tinynanorobots, I wanted to lodge that the posting style of EthiopianEpic, as well as their knowledge of much of the previous discussions on the page deep in the archive, led me to suspect that they were an alt of ]. I never found anything conclusive. ] (]) 14:48, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

====Statement by Simonm223====
These two editors have been tangling at WP:AN/I repeatedly. Last time they came there I said that this would likely continue until a third party intervened. And then the thread got archived with no action () so I'm not surprised that the two of them are still tangling. There is evidence that both editors have engaged in a slow-motion edit war.
Both have claimed the other is editing against consensus. Here I will say that it appears TinyNanoRobots is more correct than Ethiopian Epic. Furthermore, while neither editors' comportment has been stellar, as other editors have pointed out, it appears more that EE is following TNR about and giving them a hard time than the alternate. . In the linked AN/I case (above) you'll note EE attempted a boomerang on TNR and was not well-received for the effort.

Frankly my view is that both editors are not editing to the best standards of Misplaced Pages but there is definitely a ''more'' disruptive member of this duo and that is Ethiopian Epic. I think it would probably cut down on the noise considerably if they were encouraged to find somewhere to edit which was not a CTOP subject and if they were encouraged to leave TNR alone. ] (]) 18:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

====Statement by Eronymous====
Similar to Relm I check on the ] page every so often, and it seems very likely given the evidence that ] is an alt of ] created to evade his recent ArbCom sanctions, having started editing the day prior to the case closure. Of note to this is the of Symphony_Regalia on ] was him attempting to insert the line "who served as retainers to lords (including '']'')" - curiously enough, Ethiopian Epic's on ] (and , having just prior made 11 minor ones in a short timeframe to reach autoconfirmed status) is him attempting to insert the same controversial line that was reverted before.

Symphony_Regalia has a history of utilising socks to edit Yasuke/Samurai related topics and is indefinitely blocked from the .jp wiki for (plus multiple suspected IPs) for this.

Prior to being sanctioned Symphony Regalia frequently got into exactly the same arguments concerning wording/source material with ] that Ethiopian Epic is now. One could assume based on their relationship that he is aggrieved that Tinynanorobots was not sanctioned by ArbCom during the case and is now continuously feuding with him to change that through edit warring and multiple administrator incidents/arbitration requests in the past few weeks. ] (]) 22:31, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

====Statement by Nil Einne====

I was ?one of the editors who suggested Tinynanorobots consider ARE in the future. I did this mostly because after three threads on ANI with no result, I felt a change of venue might be more productive especially since the more structured nature of ARE, as well as a likely greater concern over low level of misconduct meant that some outcome was more likely. (For clarity, when I suggested this I did feel nothing would happen from the third ANI thread but in any case my advice being taken onboard would likely mean the third thread had no result.) I did try to make clear that I wasn't saying there was definitely a problem requiring sanction and also it was possible Tinynanorobots might themselves end up sanctioned. Since a topic ban on both is being considered, I might have been right in a way. If a topic ban results, I'd like to suggest admins considered some guidance beyond broadly constructed on how any topic ban would apply. While the entirety of the Yasuke article and the list of foreign born samurai stuff seem clear enough, one concern I've had at ANI is how to handle the editing at ] and its talk page. A lot of the recent stuff involving these editors seems to relate to the definition of samurai. AFAIK, this is generally been a big part of the dispute of Yasuke (he can/can't be a samurai because it means A which was/wasn't true about him). ] (]) 12:42, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

===Result concerning Ethiopian Epic===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*I've never been very impressed with retaliatory filings, and the one below is no exception. I will also note that I'm never too impressed with "must be a sock" type accusations&mdash;either file at SPI or don't. In this case, though, I think ] would be better off if neither of these two were participating there. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 19:33, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
*:{{u|Red-tailed hawk}}, what are your thoughts after the responses to you? ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
*::I think that it would be declined if it were an ] report and the editor should be mindful not to throw sock accusations around willy-nilly going forward. But I typically don't see any sort of sanction imposed when someone makes a bad SPI report, particularly if they're newer or aren't quite ] yet. So I don't see much to do on that front other than tell them that we need more specific evidence of socking when reports are made than merely shared interest, particularly when the IPs are scattered across the world. — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 02:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::I'm still inclined to topic ban both these editors from ], but would be interested in hearing more thoughts on that if anyone has them. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 07:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
*I also generally don't like "might-be-a-sock"-style accusations; when we are accusing someone of ] we typically need evidence to substantiate it rather than just floating the possibility in a flimsy way. Filer has provided as possible socks, but each of those IPs geolocates to a different country (Germany, Norway, and Argentina respectively) and I don't see evidence that any of those IPs are proxies.{{pb}}{{yo|Tinynanorobots}} Can you explain what led you to note the IP edits? Is it merely shared interest and viewpoint, or is there something more?{{pb}}— ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 02:01, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
* Looking at this .... mess... first, I'm not sure what actually was against the ArbCom decision - I don't see a 1RR violation being alleged, and the rest really appears to me to be "throw stuff at the wall and see if it sticks". But, like Seraphimblade, I'm not impressed with either of these editors actual conduct here or in general. I could be brought around to supporting a topic ban for both of these editors in the interests of clearing up the whole topic area. ] (]) 14:33, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
** {{yo|Ealdgyth}} I'm concerned that EthiopianEpic is gaming 1RR/slow edit-warring – for the past few days, they've been waiting until just over 24 hours have passed since their last revert on ] in order to make another one that restores their preferred POV, citing the same old arguments. See reverts on December ], ], and ]. ] (] • she/her) 17:21, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
**:I agree that's gaming 1RR. I'm tempted to block as an individual action at this point, separate from the AE complaint. @], please before editing again explain why you are continuing to edit war ''while'' there's an AE case open? ] (]) 17:50, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
**:: I'm good with a topic ban from the subject area for EE - for the gaming when their conduct is being scrutinized for edit warring. I'll reply below about Tiny ... (sorry for the delay, hubby is home so I have spouse-aggro (in gaming terms)) ] (]) 16:19, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
* {{re|Tinynanorobots}} you are well above the 500 word limit. Please request an extension before adding anything more. ] (]) 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
* I enacted the rough consensus to topic ban --] <sup>]</sup> 19:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
{{hab}}

==Tinynanorobots==
{{hat|Topic banned from ] --] <sup>]</sup> 19:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
===Request concerning Tinynanorobots===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 19:14, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Tinynanorobots}}<p>{{ds/log|Tinynanorobots}}</p>
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->

#. Tinynanorobots removes {{tq|As a samurai}} from the lead text and replaces it with {{tq|signifying bushi status}} against ] ({{tq|There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification}}).
#. Tinynanorobots removes {{tq|who served as a samurai}} from the lead text and adds {{tq|who became a bushi or samurai}} against ] ({{tq|There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate}}).
#. On List of Foreign-born Samurai, Tinynanorobots removes the longstanding definition and adds {{tq|This list includes persons who ... may not have been considered a samurai}} against ] ({{tq|There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate}}).
#. Tinynanorobots reverts to remove {{tq|As a samurai}} in the Yasuke article after Gitz6666 opposes at , again ignoring ].
#. I restore and start a so that consensus can be formed.
#. Tinynanorobots, when consensus fails to form for his position, becomes uncivil and engages in a sarcastic personal attack {{tq|What you are saying doesn't make sense. Perhaps there is a language issue here. Maybe your native language handles the future differently than English?}}
#. Tinynanorobots removes "As a samurai" again, ignoring ] and BRD even though no consensus has formed for his position, and no consensus has formed to change existing consensus.
#. Tinynanorobots explains their reasons, {{tq|I don't know if samurai is the right term}} which is against consensus.
#. POV-pushing - With no edit summary Tinynanorobots tag bombs by adding {{tq|Slavery in Japan}}.
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :

# Explanation
# Explanation
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on .
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :

Tinynanorobots frequently edits against consensus, restores his edits when others revert, doesn't wait for consensus, and engages in feuding behavior. He seems to think ] or ] don't apply to him which is disruptive, and I don't know why.

- Warning from other editor about repeated removal of content when multiple users are objecting.

- Warning from yet another editor about not assuming good faith and making personal attacks.

It seems to be chronic which suggests behavior problems. Tinynanorobots frequently fails to assume good faith in others. I don't know why as I don't have any issues with him.
Their preferred edit for Yasuke against the RFC consensus is lead section.


@] Sorry for the confusion. I think we talking about different edits, so I'll adjust that part. I am referring to Tinynanorobot's repeated removal of {{tq|As a samurai}} against RFC consensus, which states {{tq|There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification}}.
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : ; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request, and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> <!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


===Discussion concerning Nishidani=== ===Discussion concerning Tinynanorobots===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
====Statement by Tinynanorobots====
The accusations made by EE are so misleading as to be evidence against him. Most of what he is discussing is in reference to a successful BRD. I actually discussed the bold edit first on the talk, but didn't get much of a response. I decided a bold edit would get more feedback. The edits were reverted and then discussed. Gitz's main problem was OR, not a RfC violation. This was because he didn't read the cited source. {{tq|Anyway, since Atkin says "signifying bushi status", I have no objection to restoring this text.}}


I never used any sarcasm, I know that some languages handle how they talk about time differently. It seems reasonable that a translation error could be the reason for EE asking me not to change the article, althoug my edit had already been restored by someone else and at the same time asking me to discuss that I had already discussed and was already discussing. I am disappointed that EE didn't point out that he felt attacked, so that I could apologize.
====Statement by Nishidani====
Shrike is quite correct. It's no excuse that I didn't realize at the time that my two edits constituted an IR infraction. On a point of honour, I have refused the proferred option to revert the second edit because I don't want to spoil my record: I've never consciously introduced false or misleading material into wikipedia articles. No one who has discussed this on Ed Johnson or my page has challenged my view that the second edit removed a patent piece of fabricated material, but all suggest that I should restore it ''pro forma'' to show that I will abide by the rules. In the impasse between personal honour and obedience to a martinet reading of wikipedia culture, I prefer the first, and I respect the right of a plaintiff to get me suspended or banned. All you need determine is the severity of my violation, and the length of the sentence, then. I would ask that all editors, now that Shrike has had his day in court, leave it to the appropriate arbitrators to determine the sanction that is due, without wasting their time in a boring thread of defence or attack to mitigate or exaggerate the natural penalty. ] (]) 20:11, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
:Morpork. Really? ('''We shouldn't be arguing this here, btw.''' I've admitted the IR infraction. Your construal of Luke's edit, like my analysis, is available at the relevant pages.)


This was written in response to another user, and the whole thought is {{tq|I don't know if samurai is the right term. It is the term a fair amount of sources use, and the one that the RfC says should be used. It is also consistent with common usage in reference to other historical figures.}} In fact earlier in that post I said this: {{tq|I am not qualified to say whither or not Yasuke having a house meant that he was a samurai}} This is blatantly taking a quote out of context in order to prejudice the Admins against me.
<blockquote>:{{fontcolor||#CEF2E0|"Samouni family members did not deny that Hamas militants operated '''in the area'''.}} {{fontcolor||#CEE0F2|A family member said there was ''no active Hamas resistance'' in '''the immediate vicinity,'''}} {{fontcolor||#CEF2E0|although militants were firing rockets at Israel a little more than a mile away."}} . </blockquote>
<blockquote>:{{fontcolor||#CEE0F2| "Militants were launching rockets into Israel '''from the area''',"}} and {{fontcolor||#CEF2E0|Hamas was known to conduct operations '''in the vicinity'''.}}.</blockquote>
:What the Samounis did not deny does not translate into 'they affirmed'. ] defined all members of Hamas, officials, pen-pushers, police, army, teachers as ''terrorists'', and therefore the POV ''Hamas militants'' does not distinguish between combatants and nondescript members of the organization. Because of this source failure, you cannot use 'Hamas militants' to imply the reference is to active members of the Hamas militias. Esp. because the source says they were over a mile away from the Zeitoun residence. The Israeli government and one researcher have maintained at times that they were not shooting at Hamas members at Zeitoun, but members of ], another organization.
:What Luke did was collapse distinct elements of the NYTs, elide the geographical difference by collapsing a '''mile''' into the immediate vicinity of the Samouni houses, and push the innuendo that Hamas was firing from near the Samouni's compound. Really, this is elementary English construal. It's obvious.
:The NYTs distinction between the Samouni testimony (backed by the Goldstone report) that Hamas was not active in their immediate vicinity and the apparent editorial clause, 'militants were firing rockets at Israel' over '''a mile away''' were conflated and muddled to make out that '''in the area''' where the Samouni were killed, Hamas were 'firing rockets' into Israel. It stands out like dogs' balls, probably those of Blind Freddy and his mutt. Both Shrike and yourself admit Luke's edit was poor. The gravamen of your charge is that this is irrelevant. Fine, but don't now try to justify the poor edit I fixed according to sources. It was a lead sentence, and couldn't conserve the source's complete remarks. I've argued this exhaustively twice. If you follow my remarks to Luke's edits as he stalked me, you will find many examples showing that he makes wildly skewed inferences from what I write and has a poor command of English. He's not on trial here, so defending his edit is not appropriate, esp. since his ] was and remains, construed against the source, indefensible. All that need be done here is pass sentence on my infraction of a rule, okay? The article would have been written by now were it not for this endless pettifogging by editors who don't trust one to do an honest job of thorough recension of all relevant sources. The game appears to be to turn up as soon as someone like myself touches these articles, and make life difficult with bad edits, poor sourcing or sheer blague.] (]) 14:41, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
::::Sean. For me to hope that I might wriggle out of the consequences of my error by expecting that admin close an eye to the mechanical application of a rule, would be to avail myself of what ] has analysed as a "state of exception". Since all my work in the I/P area is premised on the contrary, that state actors must be judged by universal rules, (this corresponds to ] by neither scape-goating, say Israel or the US, nor holding to the idea that whenever their actions are described we must always allow for their exceptional status, beyond customary or international law), it follows that, if I infringe what is a fundamental rule, I should pay the consequences and not expect some special consideration.
::::In lieu of a gentlemanly agreement to close an eye - one cannot hold others to a norm one otherwise subscribes to in their regard - a sanction is clearly due.
::::Shrike wants a permaban. Frankly that is silly. It is wildly incommensurate with the, in retrospect, innocuous slip (''pas trop de zèle'', ]'s witty wisdom, is what I momentarily forgot) I made to correct a bad edit. My original permaban was for 8 reverts over 45 days, mainly against someone later identified as a sockpuppet operating contemporaneously 2 accounts in order to form a tagteam duo and push for a devastatingly innovative POV policy over Judea & Samaria. I was permabanned, but the point I and a few others, with a 100 academic sources against zilch to back our interpretation, had argued for became policy. So the permaban was, retrospectively, fine by me because it had achieved something to the good of the encyclopedia, a sacrifice worth the penalty. I didn't complain, sat out the ban, and admin, as I trusted they would, eventually reconsidered without my whingeing for a restoration of my editing rights. Shrike's solution is a tad 'ballistic' or 'viral', a bit like being consigned to the 9th cerchio of Dante's ''inferno'' because you'd dropped a whimpy puff (innocuous fart) at a papal audience.
::::I've slipped up, I think twice, on 1R, an excellent rule, because I'm pretty poor on the interpretation of policy: I freely admit I'm not a policy wonk, and have never read any one page of the guidelines. I rely on impressions of gossip, and commonsense. Before I suspended myself for a month. On my page I was about to do the same here, but Kafka got in the way.
::::Luke, who I have frequently remonstrated with for stalking me, and not familiarizing himself with the niceties of the English language nor all the relevant material bearing on articles, suggests 2 weeks. A decent compromise would be a month from all articles. This costs me, since I've promised Truthkeeper to fix the ] article, and I'm enjoying that. I'll apply this provisory sanction myself.
::::If that's not sufficient, per consensus, then it can be automatically extended by an admin. Okay?] (]) 08:34, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
:::::Sorry, No More Mr Nice Guy, but I can't resist the pun at your confusion of honour (τιμή) and ὕβρις, which no pagan like myself would conflate. The former was the basis for civilization, the latter a seed of its destruction. So, ]!] (]) 09:53, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
'looks like a sympathetic admin is going to '''delay your downfall'''.' Well, well. Proverbs, 16:18 לפני־שבר גאון ולפני כשלון גבה רוח׃
How enchanting an allusion! We were supposed to be thinking in Greek terms, ''hybris'' etc. but of course ] does argue that 'Judaism is from the very beginning a Hellenistic form of culture' (''Border lines: the partition of Judaeo-Christianity,'' University of Pennsylvania Press, 2004 p.82). Your remark suggests that my 'downfall' is inevitable, that it is "in the works". Well, after 6 years in the I/P area, I've had the odd inkling that getting me nableesied is a priority for some folks. You could be right. Luck (not Luke), what the Greeks calls Τύχη, is not on my side: as another proverb says: 'If it wuz rainen c**ts, I'd cop an arsehole.' I do think you chaps overdramatize a bit, and if it happens, I'll go off with though no doubt "geschmückt wie ein Pfingstochse" (Walter Burkert, ''Homo Necans'', p.8, from memory)
But your ] prognostication could be just wishful thinking. Good luck. A lot of effort has been put into this, most recently with the euphuistic good cop/illiterate bad cop gamesmanship playing at my heels as I'm sleuthed and sweetened up for the kill. Whatever, just as I won't on principle blame the admins if I'm cast into eternal silence, I don't think you guys should blame them if they happen, on this or any other occasion, to read things differently.] (]) 21:05, 4 May 2012 (UTC)


:@] I filed here, because the last time I filed at ANI it was suggested that I bring things here if things continue by an Admin. I try to follow advice, although I keep getting conflicting signals from Admins. I am most concerned that you find my work on ] and ] not adding anything helpful. My suggestion to rewrite the way samurai was defined on the List in order to reduce OR and bring it in line with WP:LSC was meant with unanimous approval by those who responded. Samurai is a high importance article that has tags on it from years back, is unorganized and contains outdated information. I am not the best writer, but I have gotten some books, and am pretty much the only one working on it.
'''] wrap-up. So, please decide'''(and put an end to these pathetic agony columns. It is acutely embarrasing to have to always descend to defend one's behaviour here, like some dum con at the bar before his death sentence is pronounced. My behaviour on wikipedia is on the articles I have written, which in this area, (unlike all those who complain of my obnoxiousness and 'frightful' presence), have covered empathetically the cultures of both peoples in the I/P area, and not in this piddling bickering over commas).


::I just thought that the Admins here should know about the ongoing SPI
::The two self-bans of August 7 and December I registered in high visibility on my talk page are now added to the list, (I could have just notified my talk page quietly of my intention if I wished to be devious) so that an attempt to sanction or punish myself for unwitting errors no one fussed about become further damning evidence for some congenital behavioural problem that trumps the evidence of many articles actually completed to a close approximination to ]. It's rather peculiar that an attempt to be fastidiously ethical at one's own expense is now cogent evidence for a lack of proper respect for wikipedia requiring severe administrative oversight.


@theleekycauldron Thank you for giving a reason, I think there is a misunderstanding though.
::I’ll deal only with one, the first, ]. . It stood at 6k, and intense talkpage discussionfocused on his conviction some decades ago for statutory rape. One editor there was even so prepossessed by the sexual issue he provided extensive ‘evidence’ in the . It was shoddily written, mired in innuendo, and crudely conflicted, with a lot of negative IP vandalism and had stagnated for 2 years in that sorry state. Editors on both sides fought over whether this incident should be showcased (the ‘pro-Israeli editors tendency’), or hidden (‘the pro-Palestinian tendency’) as a ] violation. It was, worst of all, full of errors which even a rapid glance at readily available articles showed. People battling there seemed not to be reading for anything more than the sex angle. I disagreed with both. I thought the statutory rape issue needed to be addressed. I also thought that the failure to document the major part of his life, his activism, meant that editing in the former, while ignoring the latter, would violate ]. I built it to 52 k . It took 352 edits , most of them in just two short sessions, amounting to about a week’s work, interrupted by my ban, to do that.


:On Nov 14th I removed {{tq|as a samurai}} and ''added'' {{tq|signifying bushi status}} which better matched the sources. Also, not every samurai received a house or sword. Especially receieving a house is an important indicator of Yasuke's rank.
::When I stepped in I noticed and and , for the simple reason that the CAT (Category:Israeli sex offenders|Israeli sex offenders) '''seemed''' invented uniquely for Nawi, and only to exacerbate the problematic atmosphere on that page, since it has no one else in it (and still doesn’t), and . The issue was resolved amicably. It was an IR revert. No , as you can see (where the 'offended' editor told me, after I decided to suspend myself, to 'stop beating (myself) up' (a nice double entendre!) (where ], perhaps the most level-headed editor on 'the other side' even gently remonstrated with me over what he thought was an excessive, perhaps wholly unnecessary self-suspension).
:On Nov 15th it was removed by Blockhaj On the same day Gitz posted on the talk {{tq|However, I agree with this revert of Tinynanorobots's edit: sources say that the gift signifies samurai status (e.g., Lockley: "bestowing of warrior or “samurai” rank"); "bushi status" is an original research.}}
:On Nov 16th it was restored by Gitz
:On Nov 17th I explained that "bushi status was in the source, and therefore not OR. Gitz agreed writing {{tq|Anyway, since Atkin says "signifying bushi status", I have no objection to restoring this text, although I suggest that "indicating warrior status" or "marking membership in the warrior class" would be easier to understand.}}
:On Nov 20th I changed it to "signifying samurai status"
:On Nov 29th EE reverted with the edit summary {{tq|Corrections and fixes}}
:On Nov 30th I revert EE with the edit summary {{tq|Reverts aren't explained and includes cited material and material that was discussed on the talk page. Please discuss on Talk page}} On the same day EE did a partial revert citing ONUS
:On Dec 1st ] reverted EE saying {{tq|when ee somehow avoided a well-earned block last time, it was *extremely*, *incredibly* obvious that sooner or later, they'd edit up attacking this exact article in this exact way, i.e., contentiously reverting an editor they're following around and badgering that editor to discuss while not doing so themself. they're really not getting the point}}
:On Dec 2nd EE started a new discussion on the topic EE begins by saying {{1. was done without consensus. It looks like it was reverted by @] , but it was silently restored without any discussion.}} but also says {{tq|can you follow ] and seek consensus for these edits before re-adding them? Thank you.}} The second part is confusing, because at the time this was written, both of those edits were current. He was asking me not to re-add something that was re added by someone else and not yet removed. He has given the section the same title as the section where Gitz and I had our discussion. On the same day, I replied linking to my discussion with Gitz, pointing out that he had withdrawn his objection. EE responded saying {{tq|I see thank you, however I checked the archives and the previous discussions says ""There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification"", and ""There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate"". So I think using "signifying samurai status" or "indicating status status" would be less in line with that consensus compared to the status quo text of "as a samurai". In light of that I would suggest getting consensus before adding this change.}} This confused me. He redirects my mention of my discussion with Gitz, into a discussion of the RfC, which he pretends he just discovered in the archive, and asks me again not to add something which is currently in the article to the article without discussing it, after I told him I did discuss it, and am trying to discuss it with him.


:This is when I wrote {{tq|I am troubled that you keep implying that I haven't discussed these things on the talk before. I also believe you do not understand how consensus works. When someone makes a change, that is the consensus until someone challenges it. You are wanting to change the status quo.}} In this case I am using status quo to mean "the existing state of affairs" It was the current state of the article. It seemed that EE was both chatising me for making a change without discussion (the past) and asking me not to make that change (the future), but overlooking that I didn't need to make the change, and that I was trying to discuss with him(the present). It was all very confusing.
::It’s somewhat odd that an endeavour to set an example (for my 'side', btw) by punishing oneself for what were oversights in an intense period of editing, should be taken as proof that I am, to the contrary, someone who should be permabanned. Or that somehow I suffer from some moral flaw, called hybris, that will spell my doom as a contributor to Misplaced Pages.


:On Dec 9th a few users made some edits that really went against consensus. EE reverted these edits, but also removed the edits that City of Silver had restored.
::I will never quite get a handle on the martinet tendency in Misplaced Pages’s I/P culture, and its Pecksniffishness at certain moments, its inability to determine whether the overriding criterion for judging the utility of editors should focus on their capacity for article creation and development, or their ability be ever present without doing anything of substance, while showing an impeccable knowledge of the laws, or engaging in a relentless war, full of tripwires, entrapments, and sleuthing, where most articles in the I/P area are kept in virtual stagnation because every edit there is obsessively watched, and any error lends itself to opportunistic attempts to eliminate an adversary (and this has not been restricted to one side)


:After that I never restored "signifying samurai status". Unless I missed something, I only restored it once.
::Most who complain of other editors do not appear to think that the disgracefully undeveloped nature of most of these articles should require committed wikipedians to renounce the pleasure of just challenging every other edit by an adversary, and actually read comprehensively up on each article’s content, and move the article significantly ahead. It mostly cannot be done, because, as with ], or ], as soon as you touch the article, it is swarmed from the outset, and nothing, neither policy on RS or dozens of academic books, will change the intransigence that holds articles hostage to a skewed and POV-maimed minimalism. Like it or not, there are three POVs to be represented. The academic consensus of reliable sources, Israeli POV(s) and Palestinian POV(s). I prefer the first, though I have no trouble in admitting that I tend to see most contemporary events in terms of how an informed Palestinian would see them.


:The full line is {{tq|He was granted a sword, a house and a stipend, indicating samurai status}} and I don't see how it can be against the RfC, the RfC says explicitly {{tq|There exists no consensus on the inclusion of the following sentence, or similar, in the lead section of the article. "Historians believe this was the equivalent to "the bestowing of warrior or 'samurai' rank" during this period."}} The quote is from one of the sources, and my version should be less controversial considering the objections to including the quote. The quote is not only in the body, but also in a footnote in the lead.
::I said 'Nableezied' because the game here is to get that log record incrementally stacked with infractions, even if trivial, so that at a certain point, the impression for adminstrators’ eyes unfamiliar with how stacked, stalked and gamed this area tends to be, and the way it operates can't be judged from ''diffs'', cannot but be that this or that person is damaging the place. The impression is gradually created by these endless appeals to A/E, that those targeted are making it hard for the decent, absolutely NPOV- committed majority to keep active here, and are obstructing people whose clean records as often as not testify to the fact that they don’t do much except control, monitor, revert or add a petty POV line to this or that article. 'There's no smoke without fire,' as the cadger said, after botting a half-pack and asking for a light.
::This said, as I remarked at the outset, I made a IR error correcting a gravely distorted POV edit when I should have waited 24 hours, and since rules and rules, I deserve a sanction, perhaps one that will be long enough for the particular hounder of the piece to tire of his attempts to track me to every page and raise ridiculous inferences at every move I make, or of his endeavours for ‘conversation’ on my talk page. If he’s fallen for a schadenfreundlich love-hate relationship, and I'm the object of her orectic yearning, he should cathect that emotional afflatus elsewhere on the web. I’m quite ugly, and happily married, and am bored by his cheeky flirtations.
::I can see that all this fuss and counter fuss embarrasses admins, who above all are obliged to make a call that stays above the fray, and reads as neither pending to one side or another. I have no problem with whatever sanction is deemed appropriate, and apologize for the inconvenience. But, this kind of situation is, in the real world, farcical, and only exists because wikipedia's I/P culture and its games are not, mostly, what they appear to be. ] (]) 06:20, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
::A final word for Jiujitsuguy. You appeal for 'equality of treatment'. Of course. But. The ARBPIA 2009 decision took out 5 editors from one side, and 2 from the other, and immediately in the aftermath, the position adopted by the 5 was recognized to be the one consonant with one of the 5 pillars, ]. It is now policy. Even if the administrators had no way of knowing what we peons on the ground knew (but informal knowledge cannot influence judgements at their level, quite correctly), that ] and ] were either a strategically coordinated tagteam or the same person, the formal 3 to 5 verdict, was not, in terms of the numerical imbalance in editors here, quite 'impartial' in a mathematical sense. A few others who actively intervened against us in that deliberation also turned out to be (well, a few of us were pretty sure before and during deliberations) chronic sockpuppets (]). There were no sockpuppets on the side that had the highest casualties in that decision. The ] here you allude to is what any statistical analysis of participation rates will show, and not otherwise. That's not your side's fault, nor the arbitrators fault. The blame lies with a people who allow themselves to be represented here either by people deeply attached to the state that occupies their country or by lunatics like myself, who allow their time to be tithed in what is otherwise an absolutely futile attempt to achieve some balance in the way their realities are depicted on a major encyclopedia, in a world where the major journalistic, as opposed to academic, sources are as ] and ] (2007:168-196) describe them. It's technically impossible to alter this bias (and people like myself accept it as just a fact of wikilife) which favours your side, but you really shouldn't pass your realities off as hard-done by.] (]) 06:20, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
:::] For the record I did mention this to Shrike as we discussed my edit, , expecting that he would not accept it as a justification. Now that you mention it, though, he may have a technical point. If I had had that in mind as I did the edit, I would be justified in adducing it, because you should only ignore all rules, a sensible thing but only in exceptional cases, by saying that is your motive in the immediate edit summary, not afterwards. The simple fact is that on the three occasions since 2007 when I've tripped on the 1RR wire, I did so out of dumb ignorance of the niceties of wikilaw regarding that. I'm empirical, not a lawyer, and reflexly think of Rv edits as reverting the whole of an edit. Even my age is no excuse to be dumb. And I should pull my finger out. I didn't, and perhaps it's fair that someone assists, and uses it to poke my eye over this. I think I'll see better in the future if they do. ] (]) 18:32, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
::Oh, ], one last point. You write:
::<blockquote>I propose a one month I/P topic ban, including talk pages, '''instead of the self-imposed 1 month article ban'''.</blockquote>
::I meant by my recent self-notification 'all articles on wikipedia', my practice being to ban myself from wikipedia for a month, if I slip up, as I did after the Ezra Nawi instance in Aug 2011, and this is how I interpreted my self-ban immediately, as you may verify if you check my contribs from May 3 four days ago, -I haven't touched the encyclopedia since, except for hanging round here and on my page like a bad smell to respond until a decision is made. (The December selfban was looser in practice, and I actually violated it, because unless a ban is total, one tends to forget and slip from talk pages to the odd article). I'll stick to the first kind of comprehensive self-ban anyway since it covers areas one edits with joy rather than out of a masochistic sense of duty, whatever the outcome, and if the official community ban re the 1/P area turns out to be longer, I'll come back to non-I/P articles like Dickens and Murasaki Shikibu after the month I've set myself has expired. ] (]) 20:56, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
:::Fair enough Boris. I am certainly 'the main source of the drama' for inadvertently making an error. I am not the main source of the AE drama, simply because I offered 'blood', reported myself, declared we should not waste admins time, and that I would sanction myself by a total abstention from wikipedia for a month almost immediately, which wasn't, apparently, enough. (It's forgotten that Shrike, the reporter, reverted back to what he then admitted was a bad edit, and then reported me). People have forgotten commonsense in the I/P area. At ], very late in the day, I had ] reported for repeatedly reverting against all remonstration, the only time I have used this device of reporting someone to AE (Nableezy did it because I don't know how to). On my talk page, the gentleman and we clarified matters. I had the report here immediately quashed, before it could even be discussed. I don't believe AE should ever be used unless there is a very serious danger to articles. If, however, someone, on the most piffling of excuses, esp. jumps at a quibble to deprive me of a right to collaborate on this encyclopedia, I'll bloody well defend myself, even if I have to talk the leg off a chair, and the brain over its boredom threshold, till the chooks come home. ] (]) 19:24, 8 May 2012 (UTC)


:EE is the only person who beleives that it goes against the RfC, except for an IP It has been added by other users, and others have explictly said it doesn't go against RfC on both ] and here.
====Comments by others about the request concerning Nishidani====
] (]) 15:07, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
As the editor who made the changes Nishidani reverted, I don't find his actions disruptive. I would say that AGF allows for the 1RR violation to slide. ] (]) 21:35, 2 May 2012 (UTC)


====Statement by Relm====
* '''Comment by AnkhMorpork''': The revert was not a simple removal of a "patent piece of fabricated material". The statement "Militants were launching rockets into Israel from the area, and Hamas was known to conduct operations in the vicinity" was sourced to NYT article which states:
I am the editor alluded to and quoted as 'protesting' Tinynanorobots edit. When I originally made that topic, I was fixing a different edit which left the first sentence as a grammatically incomplete sentence. When I looked at it in the editing view, one of the quotes in the citation beforehand was quoting Atkins Vera, and I mistook this for the opening quote having been changed. When I closed the editing menu I saw 'signifying samurai status' in the second paragraph and confused the two for each other as I had not noticed the addition of the latter phrase a little under a month ago. I realized my mistake almost immediately after I posted the new topic, and made this () edit to clarify my mistake while also attempting to instead direct the topic towards making sure that the edit recieved sufficient assent from Gitz (it did) and to talk about improvements that could be made to the opening sentence. I further clarified and made clear that I was not accusing Tinynanorobots of having done anything wrong in a later response ().


Though many of their earlier edits on the page may show some issues, as they grew more familiar with the past discussions I believe that Tinynanorobots has made valuable contributions to the page in good faith. ] (]) 03:21, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
:{{fontcolor||#F2E0CE|"''Samouni family members did not deny that Hamas militants operated in the area.}} {{fontcolor||#CEE0F2|A family member said there was no active Hamas resistance in the immediate vicinity,}} {{fontcolor||#F2E0CE|although militants were firing rockets at Israel a little more than a mile away.''"}}


====Statement by Barkeep49====
:Your reduced the source to {{fontcolor||#CEE0F2|"''A Samouni family member said there was no active Hamas resistance in the immediate vicinity.''"}} You selectively presented content and you removed the Samouni family's acknowledgment that, "Hamas militants operated in the area" and the reference to "militants were firing rockets at Israel a little more than a mile away".
*:@] I think this misinterprets the ArbCom decision. So Yakuse is a contentious topic ''and'' it has a 1RR restriction, in the same way as say PIA. As in PIA administrators can sanction behavior that violates the ] besides 1RR. Beyond that, editing ] is a finding of fact from the case. ] (]) 16:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC)


:The previous edit may have been lacking, but not with the flagrant conspicuity with which you have characterised it. I am not assesing the relative merits of the two edits; instead I am stating that your did not remove an "''obvious falsification of sources''" which Ed Johnston allowed for, nor what you state was a "''patent piece of fabricated material''". Additionally your edit did not simply remove the previous material; it asserted a distinct POV amidst a content dispute that you were requested to revert but chose not to.<br />Best Wishes <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']'''.''']'''</small> 22:22, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
::You are actually saying you approve of that smelly bit of weasel-worded POV? "''A Samouni family member said there was no active Hamas resistance in the immediate vicinity" DOES NOT mean "the Samouni family's acknowledgment that Hamas militants operated in the area". It means the exact opposite, which is why it is worded to appear otherwise. That sort of weasel-worded text is characteristic of the worst sort of journalism and if Nisjidani removed it, he/she isto be praised, not sanctioned. Also, "immediate vicinity" is not "over a mile away", "immediate vicinity" is ones own back yard. ] 20:54, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
# Please point to where I "approve of" the previous edit.
# You state that "''A Samouni family member said there was no active Hamas resistance...''" is not an acknowledgment that militants operated in the area, and that the "immediate vicinity" is not "over a mile away". This is correct, and I believe those edits were based on parts of the source that you chose not to quote: ''"Samouni family members did not deny that Hamas militants operated in the area."''<small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']'''.''']'''</small> 21:09, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
:::Classic journalist weasel-wording and slights of hand: "Samouni family members did not deny that Hamas militants operated in the area". Samouni family members also did not deny that they took regular trips to the moon where they ate their fill of cheese. The wording "Samouni family members did not deny that Hamas militants operated in the area" actually means that either "Samouni family members were '''not asked''' about whether Hamas militants operated in the area" or "Samouni family members '''did not reply when asked''' about whether Hamas militants operated in the area". If these Samouni family members were actually asked about whether Hamas militants operated in the area" the quote would have either said "Samouni family members said that Hamas militants operated in the area" or "Samouni family members said that Hamas militants had not operated in the area". ] 01:07, 8 May 2012 (UTC)


====Statement by Gitz6666 ====
If this AE request is closed with a sanction, can anyone suggest what it ought to be? ] (]) 03:16, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
I don't see anything wrong either with Tinynanorobots's recent edits to Yasuke and related articles or those of Ethiopian Epic. The only troubling aspect is their difficulty in finding an agreement on relatively irrelevant issues or minutiae such as "As a samurai" vs "Signifying samurai status", which are not covered by the RfC consensus and are also difficult to understand. They shouldn't bring this stuff to AE and they'd better come to an agreement otherwise they risk being tbanned, which in my opinion would be a pity. Disengage disengage disengage, and move to more productive editing! ] (]) (]) 22:39, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:I think because of the history this should indefinite ban.Also his refusal to revert is troublesome people were sanctioned even after they reverted--] (]) 04:16, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
::An indefinite ban seems like a very odd thing to ask for. Nish hasn't done anything wrong apart from break a 1RR rule. That wouldn't have happened if Luke had stayed out of the topic area and you had opened a discussion instead of reverting. I struggle to see how Nish is the bad guy who needs to be removed from the topic area or how that would that benefit the topic area given his knowledge of the topic and policy. He is honest, he isn't a sockpuppet, he doesn't harass people, he is able to distinguish between right and wrong, he doesn't advocate on behalf of sockpuppets and do things like ask admins to reveal the confidential evidence used to identify them, he doesn't confuse the good guys, admins and editors doing their job to protect Misplaced Pages, with the bad guys, advocates, sockpuppets etc, he admitted the violation but wouldn't revert as a matter of principal. It's his choice to be constrained by principals and take the consequences but those consequences should at least be reasonable and designed to maximize the benefit to the project rather than harm the project. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - ''']'''</small> 05:11, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
:::Though I resent and deny the above suggestion of sockpuppetry (I've even been called a Jew, not that that's a bad thing), I agree that Nishidani's behavior isn't overly disruptive. Honestly, I love his sassy mouf. Two week I-P topic ban, not including talk pages. ] (]) 05:18, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
::::Noted, but from my perspective your actions caused this (although I'm sure triggering a 1RR violation was not your intent) and it would have been better if they hadn't. I think it would be wrong for an editor to be sanctioned because of a sequence of events triggered by, how shall I phrase this, the actions of another editor when there is a significant difference in the degree to which the presence of each editor in the topic area complies with policy, a difference that directly impacts on the validity of any edits they make, hypothetically speaking. It would be wrong. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - ''']'''</small> 05:53, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
:::::Weren't you warned recently about instigating on AE boards that don't involve you? ] (]) 07:12, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
::::::No, but you may be thinking of this ] where I volunteered "not comment at AE reports anymore unless I file them or they are filed against me", a self-imposed restriction I lift when certain specific criteria I use to decide whether to involve myself in an issue are met, and I think, or at least hope, that I might be able to add some signal rather than noise to the discussion. This is a little off topic though because this section should be for presenting information that will help admins decide on the appropriate sanction for Nish's 1RR violation. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - ''']'''</small> 09:44, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
::::::::No, I was refering to when Admin HJ Mitchell said, ''It's equally concerning that a group of editors, and Sean.hoyland in particular, would see an AE request against a third party as an appropriate venue to thrash out their personal differences. Misplaced Pages is not a battleground, and AE certainly isn't ...I've given Sean.hoyland a formal notification of the discretionary sanctions. Other editors should be aware that hijacking AE threads (especially those on third parties) for interpersonal disputes will lead to sanctions should it recur...'' and here you are turning a conversation about Nishidani into a finger-pointing party. Don't suck me into your no-fun parties. ] (]) 10:10, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
:::::Every 1RR violation is "caused" by someone making an edit the violator didn't like.
:::::Also, a reasonable sanction for an editor with a long history of blocks who violates 1RR and refuses to undo his edit as a "point of honour" (read: hubris), would be what exactly in your book? Pretend we're not talking about one of your buddies. ] (]) 09:32, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
::::::I don't know what a reasonable sanction would be for this case. I have an opinion about what an unreasonable sanction would be and why. That is what I've tried to explain here. Reasonable and unreasonable things happen everyday though. Life goes on. The garden still grows. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - ''']'''</small> 09:44, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
:::::::The ] still grows
:::::The dough flows to ]
::::::Block for sas-mouf?, No!


:::] (]) 09:55, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
@Nish, I'm not confusing honor and hubris, you are. Luckily for you, it looks like a sympathetic admin is going to delay your downfall. Another day, another silly AE result. No wonder this place has the reputation it does. ] (]) 18:16, 4 May 2012 (UTC)<p>
@Nish, your downfall is inevitable not because it's "in the works" but because of your behavior. I'm sure you consider editors making edits you don't like "entrapment" in the same way you think it's your job to pedantically correct the grammar mistakes of your interlocutors. Neither is true. The only thing "nableezied" here is an admin trying to let you off the hook for something other editors with your history would get a lengthy ban in a heartbeat. ] (]) 21:34, 4 May 2012 (UTC)


;Comment by Jiujitsuguy
:I am requesting that another administrator review this AE and render an opinion independent from the one noted by T. Canes. I realize that T. Canes, as the first admin to comment wants to set the tenor and direction of this case. There was a brightline violation of 1R. The subject editor acknowledged the violation but still refused to revert, making the violation that much more egregious. Moreover, the subject editor had been previously indefinitely topic banned. One would assume that he would be more circumspect in his actions rather than showing blatant disregard for the rules. Do the rules only apply to one side?--] (]) 19:36, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
::For thy Gods of Administration are perfect beings, but wrathful, and will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger if thou continueth to doubt that perfection, JJG ;) ] (]) 20:25, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
{{outdent}}Editors associated with a particular POV have been indeff’d for a lot less. See this from T. Canes own mouth; . And then there is this from T. canes; If we are going to sanction editors, we should sanction them equally. The impression that I and many others are getting is that certain admins are not applying the rules in a consistent manner. That is to say that one side is being treated more harshly (a lot more harshly) than the other.--] (]) 20:38, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
:@floquenbeam: I would have no problem with that sanction (one-month topic ban) but for the fact that as noted above, editors associated with a particular POV have been indef'd for a lot less. Moreover, does the fact that an editor stands on "principle" warrant leniency. All I want is for the rules to be applied consistently to both sides.--] (]) 21:18, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
::*@floquenbeam: You are correct. Generally speaking, a one-month topic ban is not a lenient sanction. However, given the level of mischief and passion in the I-P topic area, admins who adjudicate these boards generally display intolerance for shenanigans and issue rather harsh sanctions for even minor infractions, ranging from a three-month topic ban at the low end, to an indef. This is especially true if the editor who is the subject of the AE has a recidivist history, which is the case here. <p> I’d like to point out one more issue concerning a past AE involving ]. In that AE ] was charged with violating 1R for removing a tag. Wikifan acknowledged wrong-doing and self-reverted about an hour after committing the offense. Not surprisingly, ] who is drawn to I-P enforcement actions like moth to flame and almost always imposes or advocates the imposition of very harsh sanctions against those he identifies with the “Israel camp,” advocated an indefinite topic ban for Wikifan. Whether wikifan deserved to be topic banned for a 1R violation is a separate issue. I highlight the case due to its similarities and differences with the instant case. Both cases involve violations of 1R. There are two major differences however. Wikifan acknowledged wrong-doing and self-reverted. Nishidani refused to self-revert, even though he acknowledged the offense. Wikifan had NEVER been indefinitely topic banned, Nishidani has. Why then is Wikifan issued an indefinite topic ban while Nishidani is given a comparative slap on the wrist?--] (]) 00:51, 6 May 2012 (UTC)


====Statement by (username)====
;Comment by ZScarpia
@Jiujitsuguy - Which cases are you referring to when you claim that "editors associated with a particular POV have been indef'd for a lot less?" If one of them was Shuki's, would you like me to list all the reasons why your claim is ridiculous in relation to it? <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 22:36, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


===Result concerning Tinynanorobots===
<br><br>
In response to Jiujitsuguy's raising of a previous AE case involving Wikifan (I'll try to be as brief as I can), some facts for the record:
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
* are the results returned by doing a search in the AE archives for the text ''Wikifan12345''.
* The case referred to by Jiujitsuguy is . It was brought by JimSukwutput on 6 September 2011.
* That case followed a month after brought against Wikifan for a 1RR violation, that violation occurring the day after the end of . That case ended with a warning being issued to Wikifan by Tim: ''This falls rather neatly into the grey area of xRR rules. I'm of the view that we do have a 1RR violation here (i.e., the first edit is a revert), but that the situation is sufficiently ambiguous that only a warning is required.''
* In the case referred to by Jiujitsuy, Tim's verdict followed Ed's. Ed recommended a new topic ban, to last a year: ''The subject of today's dispute is Gaza flotilla raid, an obvious hot-button article. (Wikifan seems to have no instinct for self-preservation if he's actually trying to stay out of trouble). Wikifan12345 has been blocked seven times before and banned from ARBPIA twice, once for six months and once for eight months. The last ban ran out on 2 August, and this is his second appearance at AE since then. in the August 6 AE one editor suggested that his topic ban be extended, but that AE was closed with only a warning for the 1RR violation. Since we are back here again another 1RR violation a month later, I recommend that a new topic ban be imposed for one year. Consider perusing the discussions on the editor's talk page since August 6. Try to count all the I/P articles where he's been in a dispute.''
* In full, Tim's verdict was: ''I let the last AE thread off with a warning, but I was quite clear there that there was an 1RR violation in that thread too. Apparently the message failed to sink in. I favor a WP:ARBRB-style indefinite topic ban myself, as I've explained above in another thread, and this seems to be particularly appropriate for editors who have been topic banned several times and still can't stay out of trouble. In the alternative, I concur with EdJohnston's proposed topic ban.''
<span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 13:03, 6 May 2012 (UTC)


* As above, I'm failing to see what exactly is against the ArbCom case rulings - I don't see a 1RR violation. But also as above, I'm coming to the view that neither of these editors are adding anything helpful to the topic area and am leaning towards a topic ban for both. ] (]) 14:35, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
;Comment by Zero0000
*:I tend to agree. The edits EE highlights are troubling, especially TNR's view that they can repeatedly make edits an RfC has already ruled out (], ], ]) because {{tq|When someone makes a change, that is the consensus until someone challenges it. You are wanting to change the status quo.}} ] (] • she/her) 00:20, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
It is so unpleasant to see N's editing opponents circling around throwing mud in the hope of being rid of someone who stands in the way of their POV-pushing. There are barely any of them whose editing behavior is not 10 times worse than N's, even if they are more adroit at staying technically within the rules like 1RR. The fact of this case is that N is a good editor who broke 1RR. He should get a short block like anyone should expect when they break 1RR. The rest is hot air. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 05:14, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
*::That's been my position, and I've thus far seen no reason to change it. I would support topic banning both EE and Tinynanorobots from the Yasuke subject. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 00:32, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*::: I concur. Topic banning both would hopefully help them learn to collaborate by editing somewhere where they are not so invested so that they can learn how to collaborately edit. ] (]) 16:21, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*Unless an uninvolved admin objects within the next seven days or so, I will close as above (TBAN on Tinynanorobots and EthiopianEpic from Yasuke). ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 20:05, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
* I enacted the rough consensus --] <sup>]</sup> 19:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*<!--
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{{hab}}


==Rasteem==
;Comment by NSH001
{{hat|There does not seem to be an appetite to act here. Any admin can chat with Rasteem about any competence concerns in their personal capacity --] <sup>]</sup> 20:00, 1 January 2025 (UTC) }}
] --] (]) 18:00, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning Rasteem===
;Comment by BorisG
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|NXcrypto}} 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
This enormous thread about a trivial 1RR infringement highlights how a project aimed at building an encyclopedia mutates into a mudtrhrowing contest. I am sure wikipedians who created the AE process had the best intentions (stop disriuption, follow due process etc) in mind but the result is anything but. Everyone who wastes bandwidth here needs to take a sober look at themselves. Including our esteme demigods, who could have avoided drama by swiftly imposing a short term sanction without much fuss. And sadly our main protagonist is the main source of the drama with his principled position and, worse still, his tldr comments. I know tldr is not sanctionable, but I don't think it helps build an encyclopedia - regardless of the eloquence of the comments. - ] (]) 16:02, 8 May 2012 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Rasteem}}<p>{{ds/log|Rasteem}}</p>
===Result concerning Nishidani===
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
*If we are sanctioning this 1RR violation, then to me an 24 hour block is the only reasonable sanction. The suggestion of indefinite topic ban is beyond ludicrous. The last non-overturned block in the supposedly "long history of blocks" of Nishidani was a 24-hour block from four and a half years ago, and since the topic ban was lifted almost a year ago, Nishidani has not been sanctioned under ARBPIA as far as I can tell.<p>Moreover, after looking at the edit and the cited NYT source, it is not clear to me that a sanction is appropriate at all. It's rather late here, though, so I'll leave that aspect of the matter for tomorrow. ] (]) 10:31, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
**JJG, way to quote stuff out of context. Your first quote is from a September 2011 AE thread of someone who had been topic banned for eight months on 2 December 2010. That was, in other words, <s>two months</s> one month after the topic ban expired. Moreover there was ] on another 1RR violation after the topic ban, which was closed with only a warning. Nishidani was topic banned in 2009, and his topic ban was lifted in July 2011, ten months ago. The two situation are hardly similar.<p>The second quote concerns someone who was already under an article ban; in response to an AE thread a ban from a different article is suggested. I wrote that if a second article ban is warranted then it's better to do a full topic ban instead, a view that I still hold today. How that is relevant to the case at hand is beyond me, since Nishidani is not article-banned at all, as far as I know. <p> Bright-line rules are fine and all, but they need to be tempered by discretion or they are prone to gaming, and each incident needs to be evaluated on their own, taking into account the totality of circumstances. Unwarranted similarities are equally as bad as unwarranted disparities. ] (]) 21:45, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
*Mostly agree with T. Canens. This may be a minor infraction, but not a reason for a lot of drama or long-term sanctions. --] (]) 20:06, 4 May 2012 (UTC)


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
*I think most of this is either stipulated to by the parties or in my opinion really crystal clear:
**Definitely a 1RR violation.
**Being right is not a defense for 1RR (not saying he necessarily is, just that even if he thinks he is, it isn't a defense).
**I can respect Nishidani's refusal to revert if he believes it would actively introduce a falsehood into the article; however, it means that someone else who disagrees about whether it's a falsehood and is following the rules is taken advantage of. Because of this, I don't think turning a blind eye is warranted.
**An occasional misstep is not grounds for over-reaction.
**It appears that he did something similar in August 2011 and December 2011, after the topic ban repeal, and self-imposed, respectively, a 1 month "block" and a 1 month article ban (which didn't actually seem to be followed completely). So, while he may not have been recently sanctioned under ARBPIA, this isn't the first time since the topic ban repeal that this has happened.
**It would be a shame, for all of us, if Nishidani didn't help Truthkeeper with Charles Dickens, where there is no reason to believe any problems will occur.
:Thus, I propose a one month I/P topic ban, including talk pages, instead of the self-imposed 1 month article ban. I was tempted to make it a one month IP article-only topic ban, allowing talk page participation, but at the risk of sounding like a self-important jerk, I think this ought to sting a little bit. As a reminder that this is a habit which he should make a serious effort not to return to. --] (]) 20:47, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
::Reply to Jujitsuguy: I don't consider a 1-month topic ban leniency; if you read what I wrote, I consider refusing to self-revert on principle a reason not to turn a blind eye to it. --] (]) 21:37, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
:::Looks like I missed the August and December episodes. Hmm...while being right is not a defense to xRR, it is something we can consider in mitigation. Looking at the edits and source again, I think N. has a fairly decent argument that L.'s edit did not accurately represent the source, but I think the whole thing is fuzzy enough that reasonable editors can disagree, and I'm not really sure that N.'s version is an appropriate summary either. Taking into account the history of 1RR violations since the topic ban was lifted, I agree that some sort of sanction is in order. Since this would be the third 1RR violation, if we are blocking then a week is probably appropriate, considering the usual escalating blocks sequence. Alternatively, I can also go with your one-month topic ban. ] (]) 22:15, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
:::I'm happy to give your suggestion a try here; let's see if that doesn't work. If not, then a week-long block would be the next step. ] (]) 22:29, 5 May 2012 (UTC)


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
== ] article ==
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# - removed wikilink of an Indian railway station thus violating his topic ban from India and Pakistan.


This violation comes after he was already warned for his first violation of the topic ban.
===Request concerning ] article===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ]] 09:13, 6 May 2012 (UTC)


Upon a closer look into his recent contribution, I found that he is simply ] the system by creating articles like ] which is overall only 5,400 bytes but he made nearly 50 edits here. This is clearly being done by Rasteem for passing the 500 edits mark to get his topic ban overturned.
; Relevant article: {{la|Caucasian Albania}}


I recommend increasing the topic ban to indefinite duration. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]

; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : "topic banned from the subject of India and Pakistan, broadly construed, until both six months have elapsed and they have made 500 edits after being notified of this sanction."

;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):

; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- Add any further comment here -->

*I agree that there are genuine CIR issues with Rasteem, for example while this ARE report is in progress they created ], which has promotional statements like: "The lake's stunning caluts, majestic desert topographies, and serene lakes produce a shifting destination. Its unique charm attracts a wide range of guests, from adventure contenders to nature suckers and beyond". ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:26, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
*{{ping|Theleekycauldron}} I hope you will review the complaint again. As Femke and Cullen328 puts, the issue is not only with the topic ban violations (for which he was already warned by Seraphimblade) but also the basic competence issues that include his grasp of English language. Rasteem's own response to this complaint that "{{tq| a coordinated attack to abandon me from Misplaced Pages indefinitely}}" itself showcases his ]. I believe that the existing six-month topic ban should be increased to an indefinite period. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:37, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :

<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->

<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

===Discussion concerning Rasteem===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

====Statement by Rasteem====
This approach seems to be a coordinated attack to abandon me from Misplaced Pages indefinitely. Indeed, after my ban for 6 months. I was banned on 6 December, and in just 7 days, this report is literally an attempt to make me leave Misplaced Pages.

1. I rolled back my own edit; it was last time made unintentionally. I was about to revert it, but my internet connection was lost, so when I logged in again, I regressed it.

The internet is constantly slow and sometimes goes down. I live in a hilly location and I had formerly mentioned it.

My edits on Arjan Lake isn't any ] factual number of edits I made; it is 45, not 50. Indeed, I made similar edits before in September and December months on the same articles within a single day or 2-3 days.

2. ] on this article, I've added 5680 bytes & made 43 edits.

3. ] on this article I've added 4000 bytes & made 49 edits.

====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

===Result concerning Rasteem===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
* While I don't see a change in editing pattern that indicates gaming, the edits to ] indicate issues with competence, as the article is weirdly promotional and contains phrases such as "beast species", "emotional 263 proved species". ] (]) 20:57, 13 December 2024 (UTC) <!--
-->
*Adding to {{u|Femke}}'s point, {{tpq|magnific 70- cadence-high waterfalls in this area}} is not prose that inspires confidence in the editor's competence to edit the English Misplaced Pages. So, we have violations of a topic ban and questions about the editor's linguistic competence and performance. Perhaps an indefinite block appealable in six months with a recommendation to build English competency by editing the Simple English Misplaced Pages, and to build general Misplaced Pages skills by editing in the version of Misplaced Pages in the language they speak best during that minimum six month period. As for ], although the prose is poor, the references in the article make it clear to me that the topic is notable, so the editor deserves some credit for starting this article that did not exist for two decades plus. ] (]) 08:57, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
*Brief comment to avoid the archive bot. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 17:46, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
*I don't see any appetite to do anything about the CTOP violations here. Someone should probably write up an individual admin's warning about the two articles and the prose/sourcing problems, but I don't see anything here AE can action. ] (] • she/her) 22:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
*:{{yo|NXcrypto}} Yeah, I read your statement. They were doing gnome edits and they made one to a dab page, removing a redlink to a place that happened to be in India and related in no other way to the conduct that got them sanctioned. I'm not obligated as an administrator to ]. I '''oppose''' lengthening the topic ban. Both Cullen and Femke expressed competence concerns that I share, but those are outside the scope of AE as they don't involve any contentious topics or other ArbCom rulings. If one of them indeffed, I wouldn't object, but maybe someone wants to try explaining to them how their articles could be better first before we hit the indef button? ] (] • she/her) 05:36, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
{{hab}}

==KronosAlight==
{{hat|KronosAlight is ] from the ], broadly construed. ] (]) 17:56, 1 January 2025 (UTC)}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

===Request concerning KronosAlight===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Butterscotch Beluga}} 03:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|KronosAlight}}<p>{{ds/log|KronosAlight}}</p>

<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> <!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->

; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
#
:*Adds "depiste being an ex-Muslim" to dismiss accusations of Islamophobia ].
:*Adds ] around ‘promoted Islamophobia’ & ‘Islamophobia’ while removing the supporting context.
:*Changed "interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence" to "claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred" ] & ]
# - ]
:*Changes "Israeli settlers" to "Israeli soldiers" despite
# - ]
# - ]
:* Unnecessarily specific additions that may constitute ] such as adding "against civilians" & changing "prevent the assassinations of many Israelis" to "prevent the assassinations of many Israeli civilians and soldiers"
# - ]

; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
# Warned to abide by the one-revert rule when making edits within the scope of the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area.
# Blocked from editing for 1 week for violating consensus required on the page ]

;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):

*Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on by {{admin|ScottishFinnishRadish}}.
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on .


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : ; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
All edits were made at ]. After I with an explanation, I , asking for their rationale.
I would like to request an amendment to the remedy that was imposed on this article more than a year ago: . I don't mind the first part of the remedy, which places the article on 1RR, but the second part I believe should be canceled. In my opinion, the sanctions imposed on ] clearly did not work. The situation in ] was in general similar to what was going on in ], where the new accounts waged an edit war, and which was placed on a different article level sanction: The edit warring on both articles was started by ] and his socks ] and ], as well as some other sock accounts. At that time ] imposed a sanction that read: ''All editors with Armenia/Azerbaijan-related sanctions are banned from editing this article and its talk page. For the purposes of this ban, these editors are all who have at any time been the subject of remedies, blocks or other sanctions logged on the case pages WP:ARBAA or WP:ARBAA2, irrespective of whether or not these sanctions are still in force or whether they were imposed by the Arbitration Committee or by administrators''. But since all long time editors in AA area were at some point under some sort of sanctions, this pretty much opened the doors for sock and meatpuppetry, since new accounts were not under any prior sanctions. The result is that the article reflects the views of the sockmaster, who was free to make any edits he wished, and established editors could not remove even unreferenced ] claims. At the moment I cannot remove even obvious WP:OR statements introduced by the banned user: Note that the line "''Whether Arranian is related to Caucasian Albanian languages cannot be determined''" is not supported by any source and contradicts the sources quoted in the article, but I had to roll myself back due to sanctions: This is why the article about ] is in such a poor condition now. I believe what triggered the remedy in question were WP:AE requests by the sock account, who even managed to place an established user on a 1 year topic ban: Note the complaint of the sock: ''The immediate concern is his editing of the article on Caucasian Albania, where User:Twilight Chill continues waging an edit war against 5 (five) other unrelated editors (Aram-van, Gorzaim, Vandorenfm, MarshallBagramyan, Xebulon)''. 4 of 5 accounts that he mentioned turned out later to be socks (], ], ], and ]). Another request was filed on me: , and also on the sock itself: I understand that admins at the time had no proof of sockpuppetry and assuming good faith believed that the editors filing complaints were genuine newcomers (even though some admins noted that the account filing complaint was suspicious), but considering that those accounts turned out later to be socks, I think the remedy needs to be reviewed. Therefore I think rather than banning everyone who has been under sanctions at some point in time (I myself was last sanctioned 5 years ago, and since then have no history of blocks, bans or any other sanctions), it would be better if established editors were treated on an individual basis. Many of the established editors have plenty of useful contributions in various areas, and excluding them from editing this article because of the old mistakes in my opinion is not fair. The immediate result of this remedy is that while most of the established users are excluded from editing, the sock accounts get unfair advantage and can freely make any controversial edits to this quite a contentious article in AA area. I believe at the moment it is enough to keep ] on 1RR per day for everyone who wishes to edit it. ]] 09:13, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
They replied that they were & asked if I "perhaps have a deeper bias that’s influencing decisions in this respect?"


They then
I think I should have used {{tl|Arbitration enforcement appeal}} template. I can resubmit, if needed. ]] 10:17, 6 May 2012 (UTC)


: ] - While I can't find any comments where they were explicitly ''"warned for casting aspersions"'', they were to ] in the topic area.
Sandstein, thanks for providing your input. There are presently no disputes going on that article, so ] is not useful here. I just see no reason why me or any other established editor should not be able to edit this article, if he was sanctioned at some point in time. I think it is wrong that a user is excluded from editing process just because he was placed on a revert restriction 5 years ago. ]] 19:39, 6 May 2012 (UTC)


:Also, apologies for my ''"diffs of edits that violate this sanction"'' section, this is the first time I've filed a request here & I thought it'd be best to explain the ''preamble'' to my revert, but I understand now that I misunderstood the purpose of that section & will remember such for the future. - ] (]) 15:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Also note that this request does not concern only me personally, it pretty much concerns most experienced editors in AA area, because I don't think there are any who were not placed under sanctions at some point in time. With this remedy, they are all banned from editing this article, regardless if they actually did anything wrong there or not. If we compare this remedy with the 500 edit limit recently imposed on ], the latter does not ban the new accounts from actually editing the article, it only places them on 1RR until they gain a certain number of edits. The sanction on ] indef bans everybody who has been sanctioned from editing the article, without giving them any chance to make any contribution to it. This leaves the article to the new accounts, many of whom as it turned out were the socks of the banned users, and started the edit wars that led to this sanction. I don't think this helps to improve the quality of this article. ]] 05:32, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


:@] I was able to find a copy of the opinion article being cited . ] (]) 20:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
The list of socks who edit warred on this article at the time the remedy was imposed: {{User|Aram-van}}, {{User|Xebulon}}, {{User|Gorzaim}}, {{User|Vandorenfm}}, {{User|Bars77}}, {{User|Rjbronn}} (the list may not be complete). The remedy did not address the sock activity in this article. I believe this was because at the time there was no solid proof of sockery. But in the light of what we know now, I think the amendment is necessary. ]] 05:54, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


; Notification of involved parties: ; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
]: , ]:


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
===Discussion concerning ] article===


===Discussion concerning KronosAlight===
====Statement by Sandstein====
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
I do not find this request convincing. If there is indeed problematic editing of this article on the part of others, it is not clear how removing my sanction would prevent or counteract that. The appropriate reaction would instead be to initiate normal dispute resolution proceedings, beginning with user talk page discussions and ending with eventual SPI or AE requests against the editors responsible for any disruption. The request does not show that any dispute resolution has been attempted. Also, on the basis of this request, it is not clear that the article is at all affected by detrimental editing. The request refers to a single edit to the article, uncited but allegedly undone at , which it considers original research. That may or may not be so, but the addition is at any rate not disruptive on its face such that it warrants administrative attention; if it is detrimental it can be amended by editors who are not subject to my sanction, which are all but a handful of Wikipedians. On these grounds, I '''decline the appeal''' insofar as it is addressed to me as the administrator who imposed the sanction.


====Statement by KronosAlight====
That said, as I'm not active in arbitration enforcement, I haven't followed this article (or topic area) for a while. Therefore I have no objection to my sanction being changed or amended as any other uninvolved administrator may deem appropriate. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 13:35, 6 May 2012 (UTC)


This is a complete waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time.
====Comments by others about the request concerning ] article====


1. That Yousef was born and raised a Muslim is important and neutral context for readers to be aware of when the article refers to claims of ‘Islamophobia’.
I had taken a "sabbatical", so to say, for quite some time and am not very familiar with the changes and activities here since then. But although the applicant might not have been sanctioned for 5 years, as he says, on the English WP, less than 2 years ago he was
sanctioned on the Russian WP for being a part of a large group of off-wiki-organised editors' group acting in favour of A side including organised for/anti voting for Admins etc. Though, correct me if I am wrong, Grandmaster.


2. The scarequotes indicate that the claim comes from the sources provided, rather than being an objective ‘fact’ determined by a few Misplaced Pages Editors with an axe to grind.
Considering the severity of activities, as I would judge it, it might be useful to take this fact into consideration when reading the editor's words of appeal. Thanks. ] (]) 21:46, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
:Aregakn - this is not about Grandmaster, this is about a neverending and unproductive edit restriction that is being applied to a single article. I wonder why such an outrageous editing restriction has been unchallenged for so long. That Grandmaster has been hung by the same noose he has often helped tie around the necks of others may give a quiet satisifaction, but is not a reason to support the noose and those who like pulling on it. ] 16:05, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
:Meowy - I see where you are coming from but no, Aregakn's point is of more merit at the moment. However, if Grandmaster's ability to game the system is finally checked, your idea will have a solid more ground. The noose can be relaxed for others but since it was Gransmaster who caused the sanction in the first place, he and Brandmeister should be kept out of it. ] (]) 18:32, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
::But that can't happen. The restriction is not directed specifically at one editor and is not directed at all at the content of edits. It is just a pointless blanket ban affecting just about anyone with any history of editing in this area from editing this particular article from now until the end of time or Misplaced Pages (whichever comes first). I imagine Sandstein might like to have a legacy that lasts that long - but that isn't a reason to make this edit restriction that legacy! ] 20:38, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
:::Many things can happen since it is discretionary sanctions area. Limiting the ability of edit-warring users to battleground on specific articles while opening the article to other users is a doable thing. Cheers. ] (]) 18:36, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
I second Grandmaster's opinion. Some time ago I realized that the current restriction is quite harsh, generally because it actually freezes good-faith editing in breach of ] so that the article is constantly waiting for improvement by uninvolved users only. The current sanction also creates an unfair situation, where any autoconfirmed sock or meat can edit the article freely, while many established users can't. ]<sup>]</sup> 15:46, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


3. This was already addressed on the Talk page and I updated the sentence to say settlers/soldiers with a further label that it needed further clarification because the source does not in fact unambiguously say what Butterscotch Beluga claims.
I concur with both Aregakn and Sandstein. When I took a look at the Caucasian Albania article's talk pages and why there was an article-wide sanction, it turned out that the sanction was placed by Sandstein to prevent Grandmaster and "old" accounts associated with him (his associate Brandmeister) to continue edit war, in which the Grandmaster-Brandmeister duo were bombarding their opponents with racist comments about the origin of sources used in the article. Exactly the same picture today in the Nagorno-Karabakh article, where Grandmaster is currently in a suspended stage of edit war. As hinted by Aregakn, the Grandmaster is a suspicious edit warring account that cultivated a farm of meatpuppets in ruwiki. Brandmaster was his meatpuppet, and it is unsurprising that he was meatpuppetting for Grandmaster everywhere Grandmaster is launching an edit war. Actually the talk pages show that Brandmeister was actually '''topic banned''' as a result of his racism for battlegrounding in Caucasian Albania. Nagorno-Karabakh and Caucasian Albania are both prime examples. I see this request as a cynical effort to re-open the can of worms in the Caucasian Albania article and extend the still simmering dispute in Nagorno-Karabakh to other related topics. This appeal is a good opportunity to cast a more somber look at Grandmaster as a meatpuppeteer and edit war abuser and restrict his and his meatpuppeting farm's ability to game the system. ] (]) 18:28, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


A few lines above what Butterscotch Beluga quotes is the following lines: “AMANPOUR: How did you take part in that? Were you one of the small children who threw rocks at Israeli soldiers?
===Result concerning ] article===
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found ]. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. <p>To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small>
*This is in essence an appeal of the original sanction and therefore subject to the rules governing AE appeals. Please notify {{user|Sandstein}} of this request, and also leave a note at the article talk page. ] (]) 09:48, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
*:Done. ]] 10:12, 6 May 2012 (UTC)


YOUSEF: The model for every Palestinian child is a mujahid (ph) or a fidahi (ph) or a fighter. So, of course, I wanted to be one at that point of my life. It wasn't -- it's not my only dream. It's every child's dream in that territory.”
I am sympathetic to this request. Though the original sanction may have had some positive effects at the time of its imposition, I see no reason to extend it indefinitely. More importantly, I think there is an issue of natural justice here; someone who has made a mistake in the past that was at the time considered worthy of only a limited sanction, should surely not be permanently penalized because of that mistake. Also, the sanction penalizes the most minor offenders in the same way as the most severe, which again seems an inappropriate outcome. Additionally, when one considers that even those subject to an indefinite ban are entitled to appeal after six months or a year, it seems incongruous to have a sanction for which there is, effectively, no appeal. And why single out this one article for such special treatment? Finally, while I note that Sandstein suggests that other dispute resolution mechanisms have not been attempted to resolve any outstanding issues with the article, it isn't clear to me how any user disqualified from editing the article or its talk page could initiate such a process. In any case, after more than a year under this sanction, I think it's probably time to try relaxing the existing sanction to the usual 1RR for contentious topics. ] (]) 14:46, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


The updated Wiki page noted both settlers/soldiers and included a note that this requires further clarification, perhaps based on other sources, because it isn’t clear (contra Butterscotch Beluga) whether he is referring to soldiers or settlers.
== PANONIAN ==


4. It is not controversial to accurately describe Hamas as a terrorist organisation. It is simply a fact. To suggest otherwise is POV-pushing.
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''


5. This is not POVPUSH; ‘assassinations’ against civilians during peacetime are usually called ‘murders’.
===Request concerning PANONIAN===

; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : <font face="xx-medium serif"> ]</font></font> <sub>(])</sub></font> 09:16, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
I in fact didn’t even remove the word ‘assassinations’, I merely broadened the description from ‘Israelis’ to ‘Israeli civilians and soldiers’ (as Butterscotch accepted) to indicate the breadth of the individuals in question included both civilians and combatants. This is not POVPUSH, it is simply additional information and context verified in the source itself.

All in all, a vexatious claim and a waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time.

====Statement by Sean.hoyland====
Regarding "I was correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors", it would be helpful if KronosAlight would explicitly identify the antisemitic editors and the edits they corrected so that they can be blocked for being antisemitic editors. ] (]) 08:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

The editor has been here since 2012. It is reasonable to assume that they know the rules regarding aspersions. It is reasonable to assume they are intentionally violating them, presumably because they genuinely believe they are dealing with antisemitic editors. So, this report is somehow simultaneously a vexatious complete waste of time and the result of the someone interfering with their valiant efforts to correct errors made by antisemitic editors. Why do they have this belief? , a comment they had the good sense to revert. For me, this is an example of someone attempting to use propaganda that resembles antisemitic conspiracy theories about media control to undermine Misplaced Pages's processes and then changing their mind. But the very fact that they thought of it is disturbing. Their revert suggests that they are probably aware that there are things you can say about an editor and things you cannot say about an editor. From my perspective, what we have here is part of an emerging pattern in the topic area, a growing number of attacks on Misplaced Pages and editors with accusations of antisemitism, cabals etc. stemming in part from external partisan sources/influence operations. ] (]) 17:35, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
====Statement by Zero0000====
Aspersions:
*
*
*
*
]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 10:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

====Statement by Vice regent====
{{u|KronosAlight}}, you on 14 Dec 2024: "{{tq|An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence}}" to "{{tq|An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred}}".

Can you show where either of the sources state "though no threats or violence in fact occurred"? ''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 18:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

====Statement by Smallangryplanet====
Wanted to add some pertinent evidence:

'''Talk:Zionism''':

*
*
*
*

'''Talk:Allegations of genocide in the 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon''':

*

'''Talk:Relations between Nazi Germany and the Arab world''':

*

'''Talk:2024 Lebanon electronic device attacks''':

*

'''Talk:Anti-Zionism''':

*
*

'''Talk:Gaza genocide''':
*
*

'''Talk:Nuseirat rescue and massacre''':

*

'''Talk:Al-Sardi school attack''':

*

'''Talk:Eden Golan''':

*

'''Other sanctions''':

* March 2024: for ], ], etc
* June 2024: to abide by 1RR
* October 2024: for a week

====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

===Result concerning KronosAlight===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
* Much of the "diffs of edits that violate this sanction" fail to explain "how these edits violate" the sanction - to me, much of these diffs look like a content dispute. However, the "additional comments" section DOES have a diff that is concerning and violates the CT by casting an aspersion that is not backed up by a diff - the "antisemitic editors" diff. Has KA been previously warned for casting aspersions? If they have, I'm inclined to issue a topic ban, but many other editors get a warning for this if they lack a previous warning. The diffs brought up by Zero (not all of which I necessarily see as aspersions, but the "Jew-hatred" one is definitely over the line - but it's from September so a bit late to sanction for just that) - did anyone point out that aspersions/incivility in this topic area is sanctionable? I see the warnings for 1RR and consensus required... ] (]) 13:30, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
** {{ping|KronosAlight}} - can you address the fact that saying "correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors" and "Is there no limits you will not cross in order to seek to justify your Jew-hatred"? Neither of these are statements that should ever be made - and the fact that you seem to not to understand this is making me lean towards a topic ban. ] (]) 14:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
*KronosAlight, can you please provide quotes from the references you cited for - for instance - "for his terrorist activities" in , showing that the sources explicitly supported the content you added? Calling a person or an organization is perfectly acceptable if you support that with reliable sources; if it is original research, or source misrepresentation, it isn't acceptable. I cannot access some of the sources in question. You may provide quotes inside a collapsed section if you wish to save space. ] (]) 19:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
*:I missed Zero's comments earlier. A lot of those comments, while concerning, are generic, not directed at a specific editor. , however, is beyond the pale. I would need some convincing that this user is able to edit this area constructively. ] (]) 20:56, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
*::@], can you please respond to this? I too am concerned...the quote you're objecting to wasn't from DrSmarty. It was a ''direct quote'', scare quotes and all, from the US Holocaust Memorial Museum. You seem to have reacted to it as if it were DrSmarty. ] (]) 16:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
*I don't like to sanction ''in absentia'', and I'm not yet suggesting we do so, but I want to note that not choosing not to respond here, or going inactive to avoid responding, will not improve the outcome as far as I am concerned. ] (]) 17:20, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
*:They're a pretty sporadic editor...many edits over a period of a few days, then nothing for two weeks. Maybe we pin this until they edit again? ] (]) 17:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
*::I agree with Valereee that this editors contribution history shows a pattern of editing for a day or two at a time followed by several weeks of inactivity. So I don't think it's fair to say they went inactive here but also holding this open for multiple weeks waiting for a response places some burden on the other other interested editors. ] (]) 17:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
*:Welp, it's been nearly ten days since they first posted here, calling this a waste of time and vexatious. They're fully aware it's happening, and it's not even like they haven't been to AE before.
*:I've gone through the diffs here, and it seems to me the basis of KA's problematic editing is that they're on a mission to ], specifically w/re what they see as antisemitic bias on WP. The exchange at ] a few weeks ago makes that pretty clear: they come into Algeria and open a section to post a content complaint about the article not covering changing Jewish demographics in the country, saying "Many people have edited it, but apparently not one has seen fit to explain" this. Another editor suggests KA fix whatever problem they're seeing, and KA responds: {{xt|I made that comment to highlight the obvious problem of antisemitism among Misplaced Pages editors. The question was rhetorical.}} And many of their other talk contributions are focussed on these accusations of systemic bias.
*:And @], in case you're paying attention: ''of course'' WP has systemic bias. It's usually unintentional, but in most CTOPs there ''are'' editors who consciously try to push a POV. The solution for that isn't to go 'round making accusations. It's to go 'round fixing the problem either by adding missing content or by discussing biased content in nonproblematic ways. It's the "nonproblematic ways" part you're missing, here. And if you are paying attention: You cannot make an AE case go away by ignoring it. I very strongly recommend you come in here and respond to the questions. ] (]) 13:40, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
*I propose closing this with an indefinite topic ban in a day or two, unless KA decides to respond. I think KA needs to be aware that they have fallen short of the required standards of behavior no matter the topic, and similar incivility elsewhere will quite likely result in an indefinite block. ] (]) 17:55, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
*:Support. ] (]) 18:05, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
*::Been watching this thread from afar, but it looks like a civil POV-pushing case to me and I support as well. ] (] • she/her) 18:54, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::I don't know about that. I haven't determined if their edits were supported by sources or not - so I don't know if this is POV-pushing - but it looks pretty uncivil to me. ] (]) 17:35, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
*::::Oh, that's fair on the civility :) I was mostly looking at the mainspace edits. ] (] • she/her) 17:40, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*<!--
-->
{{hab}}

==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Nicoljaus==
{{hat|Appeal declined --] <sup>]</sup> 19:56, 1 January 2025 (UTC)}}
<small>''Procedural notes: Per the ], a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.''</small>

<small>''To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections{{space}}but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small>

; Appealing user : {{userlinks|Nicoljaus}} – ] (]) 13:09, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

; Sanction being appealed : To enforce an ],&nbsp;and for edit warring, and , you have been ''']''' '''indefinitely''' from editing Misplaced Pages.

; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin|ScottishFinnishRadish}}

; Notification of that administrator : I'm aware. ] (]) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

===Statement by Nicoljaus===

The circumstances of my blocking were:
*I was looking for a Misplaced Pages account for ] to add it to Wikidata. I couldn't find it, so I did a little research. The in the article indicated that she participated in some '''WikiWrites'''(?) project. I didn’t find such a project, but I found the '''WikiRights''' project: https://ar.wikipedia.org/ويكيبيديا:ويكي_رايتس. It was organized by a certain Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor. I read the ] article and didn't see any outside perspective, "controversy" or anything like that, just self-representation. I surfed the Internet and instantly found information that must be in the article to comply with the NPOV. I started adding {{diff2|1220241573}}, everything went well for two days. Then:
*12:53, 23 April 2024 - Zero0000 made a complete cancellation of all additions {{diff2|1220380219}}</br>
*13:14, 23 April 2024 - (20 minutes later!) Selfstudier wrote on my TP {{diff2|1220382377}}</br>
*14:20 - 14:22, 23 April 2024 -‎ With two edits ({{diff2|1220390536|first}}, {{diff2|1220390820|second}}) I partially took into account the comment of Zero0000 about "ethnic marking", but returned the last {{Diff||1220390820|1220380219}}.</br>
*14:27, 23 April 2024 (7 minutes later!!) Selfstudier makes a second complete cancellation of all my edits, blaming POV editing {{diff2|1220391708}}</br>
*14:45, 23 April 2024‎ - I’m returning the version where I partially took into account Zero0000’s comments (removed "ethnic marking"){{diff2|1220394447}}</br>
*15:10, 23 April 2024 - Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit ]</br>
*15:41, 23 April 2024 Selfstudier writes on Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement {{diff2|1220403117}}</br>
*16:10, 23 April 2024 (30 minutes later!) ScottishFinnishRadish issues an indefinite block {{diff2|1220407252}}. No opportunity to write my “statement”, as well as an extremely bad faith interpretation of my remark as "an intent to game 1rr".</br>
Given that the both Selfstudier and Zero0000 are currently being discussed in Arbcom (https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5/Evidence), I humbly ask you to take a fresh look at my indefinite block and soften the restrictions in some way". ] (]) 19:32, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
:{{yo|ScottishFinnishRadish}} - You {{diff2|1263932187||mean}}, I need to discuss my previous edit war blocks? Well, the last one was almost four years ago and that time I simply forgot that I was under 1RR (there was a big break in editing) and tried to get sources for a newly added map, and the opponent refused to do so {{diff2|983337359}}. As it turned out later, the true source was a book by a fringe author, which the RSN called "Usual nationalistic bullshit, no sign of reliability". Yes, it was a stupid forgetfulness on my part. ] (]) 16:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
:{{yo|Aquillion}} {{tq| Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were WP:TAGTEAMing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them)}} -- That's why I wrote that my "so problematic edits" attracted attention only after two days, but two users appeared within 20 minutes. However, after months, a lot of data about the cooperation of these users appeared (and this is not my imagination): "While a single editor, Shane (a newbie), advocated for its inclusion, a trio of veterans including Zero0000, Nishidani and Selfstudier fought back. After Selfstudier accused Shane of being a troll for arguing for the photo’s inclusion, Zero0000, days later, “objected” to its inclusion, citing issues of provenance. Nishidani stepped in to back up Zero0000, prompting a response by Shane. The following day, Zero0000 pushed back against Shane, who responded. The day after, Nishidani returned with his own pushback. The tag-team effort proved too much for Shane, who simply gave up, and the effort succeeded: the photo remains absent" . I'll add that after Selfstudier accused Shane of trolling, Zero0000 appeared on Shane's page and said: "Kindly keep your insults to yourself I won't hesitate to propose you for blocking if you keep it up" {{diff2|1017316378}}. According to the table at the link , these two users cooperated like this 720 times. Probably hundreds of people were embittered, forced out of the project, or led to blocking like me.--] (]) 13:02, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|ScottishFinnishRadish}} Hello, thank you very much for transferring my remarks, now I understand how it works. I would like to clarify the issue of meatpuppetry. You directly accused me of such intentions in justifying the block, and now this accusation has been repeated {{diff2|1264013557}}. Let's figure out whether that Selfstudier and Zero0000 are working too closely was so absurd? Was it really and remains so absurd that it could not be perceived as anything other than my self-exposure? I don't think so.</br>
As for the "edit war" - I understand that edit wars are evil. In the spirit of cooperation, I tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit. If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule - I will of course avoid it in the future.--] (]) 16:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

@Valereee: Hello, I understand your point that edit wars can be disruptive, particularly in a CTOP context. However, I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting.
Furthermore, I acknowledge your reference to the 1RR/3RR rule and my history of blocks for edit-warring. However, given the amount of time that has passed, I believe I have gained valuable insights and learned a great deal. Moreover, given this topic, I think I actually learned something unlike the other side, whose history of blocks for edit-warring remains clean.--Nicoljaus (talk) 4:24 am, Today (UTC−5)

{{re|Valereee}} In response to {{diff2|1264999031||this}}, I can say that I already know very well how carelessly admins impose blocks. If any further statements are needed from me, just ping me. With best regards.--] (]) 09:51, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

===Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish===
Absent from the appeal is discussion of the five prior edit warring blocks and any indication that they will not resume edit warring. ] (]) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
:I said {{tq|They have a long history of edit warring, so I'd like to see that addressed rather than blaming others}} above, twelve days ago. ] (]) 16:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
:{{u|Nicoljaus}}, you should be focusing on convincing people that you won't edit war in the future rather than more ]. ] (]) 13:11, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
===Statement by (involved editor 1)===

===Statement by (involved editor 2)===

===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Nicoljaus ===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

====Statement by Simonm223====
looks like a bright-line ] violation via ] and ] - and removing BLP violations are generally somewhere where there is some latitude on ] which makes the actions of Zero0000 and Selfstudier more justified, not less. ] (]) 13:50, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

====Statement by Aquillion====

{{tq|Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit}} - I feel like this is obvious enough that I probably don't have to point it out, but "counter edit" is not a ] / ] exception. Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were ]ing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them), it ''still'' would not justify your revert. The fact that they're parties to an ArbCom case (which hasn't even yet found any fault with them!) doesn't change any of this. You should probably read ]. --] (]) 14:15, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

====Statement by Sean.hoyland====
"the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination"...yet another conspiracy-minded evidence-free accusation against editors in the PIA topic area, the third one at AE in just a few days. ] (]) 14:59, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

====Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)====

===Result of the appeal by Nicoljaus===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
*I do not see any indication that Nicoljaus actually realizes the problem. The edit warring blocks were indeed some time ago, but one might think they would remember it after being blocked for it repeatedly, not to mention that being issued a CTOP notice might call a CTOP restriction to mind. And the remark in question sure looks to me like a threat to game 1RR via ], too. Given all that, I would decline this appeal. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 23:10, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
* I see nothing in this appeal that makes me think they've taken on board the changes that they'd need to do to be a productive editor. It reads to me like "my block was bad, here's why", and that's not working as a reason for me to support unblocking. ] (]) 23:21, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
* Nicoljaus, what we need to see is you demonstrating you understand edit-warring at a CTOP, which is what you were blocked for, and convincing us you won't do it again. Arguing the block should be lifted because other editors did something you thought looked suspicious isn't going to convince us. <small>Just FWIW, Nicoljaus, the source doesn't actually say {{xt|these two users cooperated like this 720 times}}. It says they edited the same articles 720 times, and that's not unusual. Most editors see the same other editors over and over again in articles about their primary interest. And edit by editor 1>2 days>revert by editor 2>revert by editor 1>20 minutes>revert by editor 3 is also not at all unusual anywhere on the encyclopedia and isn't evidence of tag-teaming. People read their watch lists. Any editor with that article on their watchlist, which is nearly fifty editors, might have investigated the large revert of an edit by an experienced editor at a contentious topic.</small> ] (]) 15:18, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
*:@], it's not that edit wars are evil. It's that they're disruptive, and particularly in a CTOP we really really don't need additional disruption and drama. A revert is a revert, even if you {{xt|tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit}}. Re: {{xt|If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule}}: a revert is a revert and is covered in the policy around reversions. And you have a history of blocks for edit-warring, including at other CTOPs.
*:It's been seven months since the block. I'm trying to come around to a way to at least allow this editor a ''chance'' to show us they've taken this stuff on board...maybe a 0RR at all CTOPs? ] (]) 17:44, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
*::@], re {{xt|I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting}}. Some editors at talk pages will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just take you to ANEW. Some admins at ANEW will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just reblock you.
*::''No one anywhere is promising that your intentions will be taken into account'' -- or even that they'll try to figure out what your intentions are -- and therefore it's ''completely your responsibility'' to read the situation you're in correctly. If you read it wrong, you're likely to be blocked again, and honestly another block for edit-warring at a CTOP is likely to be another indef, and it would absolutely not surprise me for the blocking admin to require 12 months to appeal. ] (]) 15:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::No need to reply, but I'll tell you plainly I've been trying to give you opportunities to convince other admins here, and you keep wanting to dig the hole deeper. I'd support an unblock with an editing restriction of 0RR at any article with a CTOPs designation on the talk page. ] (]) 13:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
* I would also decline this per Seraphimblade, even if there were to be an unblock I would expect a PIA topic-ban (at the least) to be included. ] 18:59, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
* I see a rough consensus, so I am closing the thread --] <sup>]</sup> 19:56, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
<!-- When closing this request (once there is a consensus) use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} if at AE, or an archive/discussion box template if on AN, inform the user on their talk page and note it in the contentious topics log below where their sanctions is logged. -->
{{hab}}

==PerspicazHistorian==
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

===Request concerning PerspicazHistorian===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|NXcrypto}} 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|PerspicazHistorian}}<p>{{ds/log|PerspicazHistorian}}</p>


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|PANONIAN}}
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> <!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> <!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. --> <!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of ] (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead.
# Prior to a single discussion formerly taking place on the talkpage of the article, PANONIAN, notices an ] between {{user|Peacemaker67}} and {{user|DIREKTOR}} talking about the poor state of "his" article and ''immediately'' attempts to have Peacemaker67 blocked as a sockpuppet of DIREKTOR. There he posts many wild accusations including one claiming that DIREKTOR made a "arranged discussion" between him and Peacemaker67. I also note that he had previously also attempted to block an IP user as a sockpuppet of DIREKTOR . It is clear that he views anyone who opposes him or "his" article as a sockpuppet.
# - tag bombed the highly vetted ] article without any discussion or reason
# After it was evident the SPI was going nowhere he tried to circumvent it and convince an admin directly to block Peacemaker67.
# When that fails he's contacts another admin. # - attributing castes to people withhout any sources
# - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting
# Having had his SPI and attempts to convince admins fail, he posts a thread on ], again throwing around accusations of sockpuppeteering ("I know DIREKTOR, and due to that, I can be 100% sure that User:Peacemaker67 is his sockpuppet (it would be impossible that he is not)"). Subsequently, for about two weeks, he repeatedly treats Peacemaker67 as a sockpuppet of DIREKTOR despite requests to stop.
# - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources
# Peacemaker grows tired of these unfounded accusations and reports PANONIAN on ANI. An admin recommends that the matter be taken to AE, but Peacemaker67, apparently, does not do so either because he is lenient, unaware how to, or simply unwilling to put in the time. I give my opinion on the matter and PANONIAN continues this behavior and refers to me as a "Croatian account".
# PANONIAN attempts to get another admin involved in the matter. # - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation
# - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "{{tq|This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP.}}"
# PANONIAN accuses Peacemaker67 of posting with his "IP sockpuppet" on the ] article in 2008. Just to be clear. Here PANONIAN is insinuating that Peacemaker67, who joined in November 2011 from Australia, made a contribution in June 2008 with this Australian IP (his "sockpuppet") so that he can win an argument against PANONIAN in the future four years later.
# A more recent attempt to block a discussion participant on ] by PANONIAN
----
# A series of month-long, circular, repetitive debates begin and are repeated ''ad nauseam''. Having gone over all of them, it's evident Peacemaker67 (and to a lesser extent DIREKTOR) repeatedly present their sources and research over and over again, only to have PANONIAN reject them. Then a lengthy discussion follows where PANONIAN tries justify his rejection through ] (which he insists on simply repeating over and over again), through Googled out-of-context one-liners, or through various methods of that sort. He might post statements from sources that he's completely misunderstood, and then refuse to concede that he got it wrong (I agree with Peacemaker67's and DIREKTOR's statements about his poor grasp of the English language when it comes to interpreting sources and Misplaced Pages's policies), or he might simply reject the sources without a proper reply and create another section on the same matter.
# Increasingly out of options, PANONIAN creates a new thread for a ]
# Peacemaker67 posts numerous sources, complete with quotes, at PANONIAN's request.
# PANONIAN simply dismisses them all in brief and moves on to another thread.
# DIREKTOR takes the time to quote each relevant statement from every source
# PANONIAN briefly decides the sources don't say anything, and starts a new thread for a ].
# Peacemaker addresses PANONIAN's collection of maps one by one
# PANONIAN briefly dismisses the analysis and moves on to another thread, etc. I could go on and on like this, but I recommend seeing talkpage for yourselves. I was astounded to see the numerous number of times that PANONIAN repeatedly and blatantly engaged in ] (with coins and stamps he found).
# The disruption continues and PANONIAN is either unable or unwilling to abide by Misplaced Pages's policies.

; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) :
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. -->
#Warned on by {{user|Tiptoety}}, concerning edit-warring on the article
#Warned on by {{user|DIREKTOR}}. After the warning was deleted he replied to the posting user to "".


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
*Already 2 blocks in last 4 months for edit warring.
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : ; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- Add any further comment here --> <!-- Add any further comment here -->
Aside from ], ], and failure of ] being blatantly evident, it is clear from these diffs that this is a general behavioral pattern and not an isolated incident. Users to him are not individuals to be persuaded rather obstacles that must be coerced or intimidated to reach his end, likewise he views admins as simply tools or pawns to be used to facilitate his process. It would be an immense effort to try and relay the discussion in full, but the ] is available for those who have the time and effort. The user simply rejects presented sources and relentlessly promotes his own ideas and his own version of history that he has conjured up and that no sources back up. It is not only Misplaced Pages's users who have suffered at the hands of PANONIAN's behavior and actions, but also this article which continues to incorporate biased information and historically inaccurate nonsense.


I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
PANONIAN, in his own words, is a self-proclaimed "patriot" , with apparent ] issues and a clear ] mentality ("I am not Croat who desperately trying to implement POV-ization of article about Serbia" ). It's clear that he views himself as a guardian of sorts that stops non-Serbs from sullying Serbia-related articles. He has caused immense ] and has rendered any discussion entirely pointless. The ] is in quite a sorry state as a result and at this point, all edits must be "approved" by PANONIAN, who doesn't mind a few contributions here and there as long as they do not interfere with his POV.


:While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to ]. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
Again, this all appears to be part of a more general "strategy" employed by PANONIAN, who, after exhausting his opposition, requests that a "compromise" between the quoted reliable sources and his own personal views be reached - which has rendered the article a self-contradicting mess. The user take advantage of the complexity and obscurity of the subject matter to continue to avoid sources, create new sections and circular "discussions" on the same matter, pressure other users into a "mediation" carried out by himself, intimidate and coerce them through SPI and ANI reports, and avoid Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. This is all done with the intent of promoting his own personal version of history, one which is marred by nationalism and one which no other user or source subscribes to. Users who have taken the time and effort to do some research on the subject matter are effectively blockaded and unable to get to the article.


*PerspicazHistorian is still using sources (see ]) and wishing to move ] to ] which is a blatant POV. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 04:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
I initially wanted to keep myself distanced from the matter since I know that the more editors get involved the more things can get dragged out and complicated; however, I feel that it is important and necessary to bring this to the attention of admins.


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : ; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request, and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. --> <!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> <!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


===Discussion concerning PANONIAN=== ===Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian ===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by PANONIAN==== ====Statement by PerspicazHistorian ====
*By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on ] Page.
OK, I will post short answer:
I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before ] told me about this: ].
*1. ], ] and ] are having a history of cooperating in "work" against various users in Misplaced Pages. Notable example is article about ] and ]. While I was not interested in these articles by myself, here are some diffs that showing cooperation of these users there: , , , . So, this cooperation is the reason for this post - ] wants to help to his "buddies" in their dispute with me.
Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.<br>
*2. Regarding my accusations that ] is a sockpuppet of ], this issue was solved and I am not accusing him for that any more.
*In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on ] by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to ] it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of ].<br>
*3. Regarding dispute about article ], the consensus about problems with this article is almost reached with the help of an administrator: http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Military_history#Territory_of_the_Military_Commander_in_Serbia
*As a clarification to my edit on ], it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this . I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong.
*4. Regarding other accusations, if admins think that any of them is valid, I am ready to provide evidences in support of my defence. Please notify me what kind of evidences I should provide. Thank you. ] 10:01, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
:@], Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in ]. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! ] (]) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::Yes, in reality we're all sockpuppets of Peacemaker67. Or perhaps its that 2008 Australian IP that's "behind it all"? I'm sorry PANONIAN, but these conspiracy theories are getting really old. I did ask Peacemaker months ago to have a look at the article, but I fear that, if anything, ''you'' started discussing with Peacemaker and I rather than ''vice versa.'' Peacemaker didn't even manage to write a single post on the article before you started having it out with him. <font face="Eras Bold ITC">-- ] <span style="color:#464646">(])</span></font> 10:15, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
::Yes, I will commit to that. ] (]) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC) </small>
:], I cannot agree with claim that "I had a single-minded determination that Serbia existed as a country during the German occupation and that I would reject any sources to the contrary found by others". I based my position on citations from these sources that I collected: http://en.wikipedia.org/User:PANONIAN/Sources02#Google_quotations (Please see "Google quotations" section in the end of page). As for sources that were provided by DIREKTOR, these sources did not supported his position that "Serbia was not country". DIREKTOR's tactics in the discussion was practically based on constant repetition of this rhetorical mantra: "Serbia was not country, there was no Serbia, I have behind me best sources that confirming that, while all sources that you presented are false and wrong" (of course, such sources that he recalled did not stood behind him). If this is not true, somebody should present a diff which show that DIREKTOR actually presented a quotation from some source and that I rejected such quotation. It was him who rejected all quotations from sources that I provided. ] 16:47, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
:At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when ] was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. ] (]) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
*Hi @] , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me.
::''<small>P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards.</small>'' ] (]) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)<small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.] (]) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)</small>


*1) I just asked an user @] if the page move is possible. What's wrong with it? I still have not considered putting a move request on talk page of article.
;Responses to "Result" (moved from there)
:2) Many of other sources are not raj era. Moreover I myself have deleted the content way before you pointing this out. Thank You ! ] (]) 06:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::even @] is seen engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics. ] (]) 06:37, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:::as mentioned by @] before, <sub>Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here</sub>. You can discuss content related topics on talk pages of articles rather than personally targeting a user here in enforcement. ] (]) 06:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::::@] I once filed a to find it @] is a sock (out of a misunderstanding, as all were teamed up similarly on various pages). I think he felt it as a personal attack by me and filed this request for enforcement. Please interfere. ] (]) 06:47, 29 December 2024 (UTC) <small>moving to correct section ] (]) 13:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)</small>


*Hi @] @], In my defense I just want to say that
::], I cannot agree with claim that "I had a single-minded determination that Serbia existed as a country during the German occupation and that I would reject any sources to the contrary found by others". I based my position on citations from these sources that I collected: http://en.wikipedia.org/User:PANONIAN/Sources02#Google_quotations (Please see "Google quotations" section in the end of page). As for sources that were provided by DIREKTOR, these sources did not supported his position that "Serbia was not country". DIREKTOR's tactics in the discussion was practically based on constant repetition of this rhetorical mantra: "Serbia was not country, there was no Serbia, I have behind me best sources that confirming that, while all sources that you presented are false and wrong" (of course, such sources that he recalled did not stood behind him). If this is not true, somebody should present a diff which show that DIREKTOR actually presented a quotation from some source and that I rejected such quotation. It was him who rejected all quotations from sources that I provided. ] 16:47, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
:1)Yes I usually edit on RSS related topics, but to ensure a democratic view is maintained as many socks try to disrupt such articles. Even on ] page, I just edited on request of talk page and added a graph. I don't think its a POV push.
:::And here is evidence for my claim: and here is how DIREKTOR responded to my post (full answer quoted): So, practically, he attacking my sources by pure rhetorics claiming that they all are wrong and that they contradict to "majority of other sources" which "do not using term puppet state". Firstly, he did not provided proof what "majority of sources" are claiming. Second, if other sources do not mention term "puppet state" that does not mean that they automatically contradict to those sources that mention this term. Third, I never had a "single minded position" about anything here - all I wanted to do is to make balanced article where these sources that saying that Serbia was country or puppet state will be respected as well. Contrary to this, DIREKTOR aimed to edit this article only in accordance with his own POV and to completely ignore and delete any info that claims the opposite. There is notable number of google hits that and I only asked for balanced article which would present info from these sources as well. DIREKTOR wanted to ignore these sources and aimed to edit this article in a way to present Serbia as a "province of Germany". ] 17:21, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
:2) My main interest in editing is ] and ] topics.
:3)There have been certain cases in past where I was blocked but if studied carefully they were result of me edit warring with socks(although, through guidance of various experienced editors and admins I learnt a SPI should be filed first). I have learnt a lot in my journey and there have been nearly zero case of me of edit warring this month.
:Please do not block me. ] (]) 14:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
*@] I beg apologies for the inconvenience caused, thanks for correcting me. I will now reply in my own statement section. @] I am a quick learner and professionally competent to edit in this encyclopedic space. Please consider reviewing this enforcement if its an counter-attack on me as mentioned in my previous replies. You all are experienced editors and I have good faith in your decision-making capability.] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*@]@] I have edited content marked as "original research" and "mess" by you, I am ready to help removing any content that might be considered "poorly sourced" by the community. Please don't block me.] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*@] This enforcement started for edit-warring and now I feel its more concerned to my edited content(which I agree to cooperate and change wherever needed). After learning about edit wars, there has been no instance of me edit-warring, Please consider my request.--] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*:@] I am not a slow learner, I understand the concerns of all admins here. I will try my best to add only reliable sources, and discuss content in all talk pages, as I already mentioned ]. ] (]) 12:55, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*::@]@] I think admins should focus more on encouraging editors when they do good and correct when mistaken. I have made many edits, added many citations and created much articles which use fine citations. The enforcement started out of retaliation by nxcrypto, now moving towards banning me anyways. I started editing out of passion, and doing it here on wiki unlike those who come here just for pov pushes and disrupt article space(talking about socks and vandalizers on contentious Indian topics).
*::The article ] doesn't only has issue on citations, but the whole article is copypasted from the citations I added. I just wanted to point that out. Remaining about ], I am currently pursuing Btech in cs from IIT delhi, idt I am a slow learner by any means. Still, happy new year to all ! ] (]) 14:01, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::@] You mean to say, "<sub>The ''prasada'' is to be consumed by attendees as a holy offering. The offerings may include cooked food, ] and confectionery sweets. Vegetarian food is usually offered and later distributed to the devotees who are present in the ]. Sometimes this vegetarian offering will exclude prohibited items such as garlic, onion, mushroom, etc. "</sub> is not copy pasted by website? Is this also a wiki mirror website? How would you feel if I doubt your competence now? ] (]) 14:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)


====Statement by LukeEmily====
::Do you want to say that my behavior was similar in other articles related to Serbia as well? At least 90% of my edits are related to Serbia and if you want to ban me from "all articles and discussions related to Serbia" then it is better to ban me for good from en Misplaced Pages since this is practically same thing. ] 18:22, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
PerspicazHistorian also violated ] by engaging in an edit war with {{u|Ratnahastin}} who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.] (])
:::And to say this: I practically wrote or largely contributed to very large number of articles related to Serbia. Without me, there would not be many articles about Serbia, so the Blade of the Northern Lights, thank you very much for your proposal. ] 18:27, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


====Statement by Doug Weller====
:::::::Sorry for editing this section, but I simply have to say this (and seems that you decided to block my anyway): basically you want to block me from "Serbia-related articles" so that I do not edit , while in the same time you will allow me to edit other articles. In that way, I would be still able to edit World War II articles in which I had dispute with DIREKTOR (for example these ones: , , ), while I will not be able to edit articles about Serbia that I practically wrote and where I did not had any dispute with anybody (for example these ones: , , ). Are you sure that you understood well what this dispute is about? ] 19:45, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and ]'s comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving ] to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. ] (]) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. ] ] 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
{{unindent}}More than 90% of PANONIAN's edits are related to Serbia. If some of his edits were disruptive that does not necessarily mean that disruption is connected with Serbia. In case of this renaming issue I think disruption is not directly connected with Serbia (i.e. he renamed many "Ottoman X" articles and categories (like )). I believe that banning PANONIAN from editing Serbia related articles and allowing him to continue his actions in articles non-related to Serbia would not resolve this issue. The same goes for to be banned from articles related to Wolrd War II in Yugoslavia. I think it is probably better to strongly counsell PANONIAN or block him for certain period (a week?) and not to allow him to rename articles and categories and to participate in discussions about renaming articles and categories for certain period of time (six months?)? --] (]) 09:33, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
:The failure of "strong counselling" is why this case has been taken up here. Stricter sanctions are needed. Also, I am not convinced that his editing in the Ottoman area is unrelated to his editing in the Serbia area. The two are related even from a historical perspective, and FocalPoint's comment leads me to think that "Ottoman Serbia" is the most salient point of the "Ottoman X" dispute. Perhaps a general Balkan topic ban would be a more comprehensive solution. ~~ ] (]) 10:30, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
::If anyone wants my opinion, I believe that the real problem is (what I perceive as) PANONIAN's "agenda" with regard to Serbian ''history'' specifically. What I would suggest is a tb on Yugoslav ''history'' articles (Serbian history included). I believe PANONIAN can do good work on Serbian articles, but his (imo unique and strange) personal perceptions with regard to Serbian ''history'' render him almost incapable of neutral participation in articles on that topic. Also, as the histories of the Yugoslav nations are pretty much intertwined, "''Yugoslav'' history" covers the bases more completely (PANONIAN, ''e.g.,'' might resurface on the ] article and be technically "in the clear" with regard to "Serbia").


:::I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... ] ] 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
::As regards PANONIAN's conflict on the ] article, which I think may be behind Antidiskriminator's concerns above, it is not directly related to Serbia or Yugoslavia - but its something of an exception in that. And, in addition, I have no doubt the conflict there is nothing more than an extension of the conflict at ] (PANONIAN is there simply moving other articles to make his POV on a Serbian history dispute make sense, as is his wont ). <font face="Eras Bold ITC">-- ] <span style="color:#464646">(])</span></font> 11:04, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
{{ec}}I was focused in my comment to a topic ban, regardless of the main sanction. Whatever disruption he made it could be traced to Serbia or Balkans simply because almost all of his edits are made in that area. It is easy to conclude this area is subject of his deep personal passion and interest. Almost all of his edits were very useful for wikipedia. The only aspect of his editing identified as disruptive was the "renaming issue" (and not only related to Balkans or Serbia (i.e. ) renaming. I think that there is no point to restrict him from editing in all Balkans or Serbia related areas just because he was proven disruptive only with "renaming issues".--] (]) 11:33, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
:Oh no, the renaming is just ''a part'' of it. Its everything (every change and every edit) concerning (quote) "Serbian statehood" and the "threats" it faces. Again I cannot claim I understand PANONIAN, and I am still deeply confused as to what exactly he's trying to achieve, but in my personal opinion the main problem is the user's deep-seated POV and agenda to preserve the continuity of "Serbian statehood". This can mean map labels, lead structure, images, the choice of infoboxes etc. For example, the user opposed the usage of the {{template|Infobox former subdivision}} template on grounds that its ''name'' implies that "Serbia was a subdivision". There he actually proposed (as one of his "compromises") the creation of a practically ''identical,'' duplicate infobox - just with a different name. <font face="Eras Bold ITC">-- ] <span style="color:#464646">(])</span></font> 11:42, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
:: His renaming agenda is related to continuity of any modern state, not only Serbia (i.e. ). Whatever PANONIAN's motives are, the examples you presented confirm that his disruptive actions are predominantly connected with "re-naming agenda" (not only articles and categories but even infoboxes). There is no point to ban him from editing the content (history of his regular useful content editing is impressive) because of his "re-naming agenda". --] (]) 14:33, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
::: I'm sorry, but infoboxes, the lead, section names, flag use, images, the usage of various terms throughout Misplaced Pages, and all the other numerous aspects of the dispute(s) with PANONIAN cannot possibly be categorized as "re-naming". I do not see how one can draw a parallel between renaming articles and duplicating infoboxes, categorizing them as such. It is evident from the diffs provided, and indeed from the talkpages themselves, that the user's agenda is certainly not simply to rename articles, but the naming disputes themselves are only one part of a larger POV agenda that, in my opinion also, renders the user practically incapable of participating on the subject of Serbian history in anything like an objective, neutral manner. I pleaded, warned, reasoned - to no avail. The user's suspicious perspective and pronounced ] disposition make him impervious to any attempts at real discussion, and lead me to believe there is no way he will ever adopt an open-minded, objective disposition on this subject. I'm sure that, even at this point, in his mind he's a poor victim of an "anti-Serbian conspiracy".


====Statement by Toddy1====
::: And I think there is no question that the user has focused his activity on ''Serbian'' history articles, almost without exception, and that his goal is not some huge project to fabricate the appearance of state continuity for all countries, or anything like that. He considers himself a "Serbian patriot", and I need only point to his ''quid pro quo'' "proposals", where he offers to leave other countries alone if people let him do what he wants on Serbian history articles. But that's it from me, this report is long enough as it is. <font face="Eras Bold ITC">-- ] <span style="color:#464646">(])</span></font> 14:59, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
This is another editor who appears to have pro-] (RSS) and pro-] (BJP) views. I dislike those views, but find it rather alarming that Misplaced Pages should seek to censor those views, but not the views of the political opponents. Imagine the outrage if we sought to topic-ban anyone who expressed pro-] views, but allowed ] to say whatever they liked.


A lot of pro-RSS/BJP editors turn out to be sock-puppets, so please can we do a checkuser on this account. And to be even-handed, why not checkuser NXcrypto too.
====Comments by others about the request concerning PANONIAN====


If we want to talk about ] when editors make mistakes, look at the diff given by NXcrypto for "Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested" - it is the wrong diff. He/she did notify PerspicazHistorian - but the correct diff is .
=====Comment by Direktor=====
What I say with rants Producer chooses to say with diffs. There's not much to add, except perhaps PANONIAN's simultaneous exploits on other articles.
*PANONIAN is currently engaged in two simultaneous ]. Similarly to what is going on with the ] article, PANONIAN is attempting to push titles that imply the existence of "Serbia" in various historical time periods. Hence PANONIAN is constantly renaming ] to "]" . In order for that to make sense, he's also renaming the ] article to "]" . All against opposition, in spite of warnings, and without a ]. He's managed to get the article protected , and has accused {{User|FocalPoint}} of ] .
*In a dispute (on the ] article) about infobox usage, I posted links to about a half-dozen articles to demonstrate my point . Undaunted, PANONIAN simply went over there and changed them so that they support his POV . It took me a while to notice, but when I did (following my own original links), I reverted him. Upon which I was accused of stalking and "personal harassment" on ] .
*Similarly, in order to support his argument on the Serbia article, he renamed the ] article to "Belgium and Northern France" without a word of discussion. When an RM was posted, the move was unanimously opposed .
It seems the whole mess on the ] article is just a part of a larger agenda to somehow imply continuity of state or something of the sort. I do not claim to understand what in the world User:PANONIAN is thinking with all this, I just know I've tried <u>my absolute best</u> to talk to the user. Nothing anyone could say or do has prevailed to change PANONIAN's opinion or position ''one iota''. Facing a wall of opposition on the article talkpage, he's now attempting to restart the same tired and chewed-out discussion on ]. For the twentieth time.


A topic ban from Indian topics would be unhelpful, unless given to both parties. Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India. Loading the dice against BJP and RSS editors will turn Misplaced Pages into a fringe encyclopaedia on Indian topics.
P.s. I'll add that, on two occasions, when PANONIAN wrote a report against somebody on WP:ANI, it was recommended that his conduct be brought up for review on ] with regard to ] (by Lothar, if I recall). I honestly couldn't bring myself to ask someone to read through that mess over there, and, in either case, just didn't have the time to write up a comprehensive report the likes of PRODUCER's. <font face="Eras Bold ITC">-- ] <span style="color:#464646">(])</span></font> 10:09, 6 May 2012 (UTC)


I can see a good case for restricting PerspicazHistorian to draft articles and talk pages for a month, and suggesting that he/she seeks advice from more experienced editors. Another solution would be a one-revert rule to last six months.<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">--] ]</span> 13:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC)


====Statement by Capitals00====
Well, let me see:
I find the comment from {{U|Toddy1}} to be entirely outrageous. What are you trying to tell by saying "{{tq|Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India}}"? If you want us to entertain those who are in power, then we could never have an article like ].
* ] have a . I do not remember that I had any notable dispute with ] anywhere, so "cooperation" with DIREKTOR could be the only logical reason why ] opened this thread against me. History of ] article show a long POV revert warring that includes ], ] and ]: . ] also have a , while ] is also not innocent . I am not denying my own blocking history, but recently, I am usually practicing only two reverts in the article before I stop with reverts and fully commit to solve the issue on talk page (here are some examples of my two reverts: , - and I am not practicing "two reverts per day", but "two reverts per article"). In another words, I am accused here because of my two reverts by users who are engaged in constant reverts in the ] article.
* Now, let me elaborate issue of "existence of Serbia" since DIREKTOR wrongly interpreted my statements and pulled my comments and behavior out of proper context. I have in fact very different position about subjects of two mentioned articles - in ] article, my position is that this territory was known as Serbia (and I collected these sources in support of that: http://en.wikipedia.org/User:PANONIAN/Sources02 ). In article ] I have quite opposite position that . So, claim of ] that I want "to push titles that imply the existence of Serbia in various historical time periods" is simply incorrect. This shows that ] reverted my edit without even knowing my position there. In fact, this is example of a blind revert performed by ], who recently tracked my edits and reverted my edits in several articles that he never edited before: , , , , , - this is obvious example of ].
* Now, let me elaborate the whole history of issue with ]: 1. I renamed that article to in March 17, 2. ] and ] agreed with that and ] said that , which I subsequently done. 3. After I renamed article and category about Greece, an Greek user reverted my edits in Greek-related articles and also . This user have full right to edit which article he wants, and I admit that it was not nice from me to say that he stalks me, but I spent lot of my free time to rename all these country categories and I was a bit annoyed by the fact that somebody is reverting my edits like this. But if accusing someone for Wiki stalking is so bad thing, then I am guilty. Also note that article ] was protected (not after my own). I repeat that I had only two reverts there, supported by my comments on the talk page, while DIREKTOR reverted me blindly after he tracked my edits thinking that I want to "push title that imply the existence of Serbia", while I claimed quite opposite thing on the talk page. Also note that DIREKTOR never before edited that article and did not posted a single comment on its talk page.
* Regarding the dispute in ] article, which is the main reason why this thread against me was opened, please note that this thread was opened I agreed with and after this admin (and the usage of that flag there was the main thing to which I objected). ] 13:23, 6 May 2012 (UTC)


You cannot ask topic ban for both editors without having any evidence of misconduct. Same way, you cannot ask CU on either user ]. It is a high time that you should strike your comment, since you are falsely accusing others that they "{{tq|seek to censor}}" this editor due to his "{{tq| pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views}}". You should strike your comment. If you cannot do that, then I am sure ] is coming for you. ] (]) 15:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
=====Comment by FocalPoint=====
My relationship with PANONIAN has consisted of:
*Accusations from his side of wiki stalking , , , which he refused to remove from my discussion page
*] offers , ,
*Accusations of , ,
*Refusal to accept consensus making , making ] to warn him that
*Even here in this present discussion, he is attempting to characterize me using a nationality, choosing to ignore my edits for the categories of Albania, Serbia, Bulgaria, Hungary, Tripolitania something which I find completely unacceptable.


====Statement by Vanamonde93====
I have the following corrections and clarifications to the statements above (as well as to the replies by PANONIAN which if I remember well is not an acceptable practice, as statements by other users should stand on their own - ACTION IS REQUIRED BY ADMINISTRATOR):
{{U|Toddy1}}: I, too, am baffled by your comment. We don't ban editors based on their POV; but we do ban editors who fail to follow our PAGs, and we certainly don't make excuses for editors who fail to follow our guidelines based on their POV. You seem to be suggesting we cut PH some slack because of their political position, and I find that deeply inappropriate. Among other things, I don't believe they have publicly stated anywhere that they support the BJP or the RSS, and we cannot make assumptions about them.
*PANONIAN is not engaged only in two simultaneous MOVE WARS. He has decided (without discussing with interested parties) that all categories in ] shall be changed from their name "Ottoman AREA" to "History of COUNTRY during Ottoman administration" and he performed a significant number of movements on the 18th-19th March 2012
*Having realized that this was a movement without any discussion I started reverting his moves, from "Category:History of Greece, Albania, Serbia, Bulgaria, Libya, Hungary during Ottoman administration" to the previous, established "categories:Ottoman Greece, Albania, Serbia, Bulgaria, Libya, Hungary" and I asked him to . He has reverted everything back, with the exception of Greece (the Quid for Quo offer which I discussed above), despite a discussion on , coming back on the , moving the article again. Again, the issue in ] (1st May)
*PANONIAN claims that ] and ] agreed with him that he . This is a very clear indication of how he chooses to interpret it as an agreement: He was kindly asked by both user to discuss the issue ("you can ] to move them all, or just revert to ]" and "either all categories should be moved <u>after discussion</u>, or none."). After all this discussion, he still believes that he has had an agreement.
*Later on, he has decided to move all these categories to a new name: "Category:Ottoman period in the history of COUNTRY", a move which he performed on May 2 (again no discussion, just a massive move of a big number of articles and categories.


That said, the fact that this was still open prompted me to spot-check PH's contributions, and I find a lot to be concerned about. is from 29 December, and appears to be entirely original research; I cannot access all of the sources, but snippet search does not bear out the content added, and the Raj era source for the first sentence certainly does not support the content it was used for. ], entirely authored by PH, is full of puffery ({{tq|"first to sacrifice his life for the cause of Swarajya"}}, and poor sources (like , and , whose blurb I leave you to judge), from which most of the article appears to be drawn. ], also entirely authored by PH, has original research in its very first sentence; the sources that I can access give passing mention to people whose names include the suffix "appa", and thus could perhaps be examples of usage, but the sources most certainly do not bear out the claim.
Overall, I find that User:PANONIAN either chooses to ignore discussions or cannot understand whether there is agreement or cannot accept agreement opposite to his views. This, together with his choice for unilateral action without discussion and his capacity for a very big number of edits, creates significant problems in Misplaced Pages. I believe that some kind of restraint has to be considered. --] (]) 17:09, 6 May 2012 (UTC)


I will note in fairness that I cannot access all the sources for the content I checked. But after spotchecking a dozen examples I have yet to find content PH wrote that was borne out by a reliable source, so I believe skepticism is justified. We are in territory where other editors may need to spend days cleaning up some of this writing. {{U|Bishonen}} If we're in CIR territory, just a normal indefinite block seems cleanest, surely? Or were you hoping that PH would help clean up their mess, perhaps by providing quotes from sources? That could be a pathway to contributing productively, but I'm not holding my breath. ] (]) 18:00, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:Well, FocalPoint, and means that Zoupan and Antidiskriminator agreed with title "History of X during Ottoman administration" and shows that I renamed country categories in agreement with him and '''after''' he proposed that I should do that. I renamed these categories in very good faith and I did not expected that somebody will object to my actions. Furthermore, I spent lot of time to rename these articles and categories and, due that, I was very annoyed by the fact that you started to revert my edits, while users Zoupan and Antidiskriminator subsequently changed their own position about the subject (and I acted exactly in accordance with ). In another words, I was very annoyed and I told you what I told you because of that. How would you fell to spend several hours in good faith category renaming just to find out that somebody will subsequently revert your edits? Furthermore, I discussed the issue on talk page and I had only one or two reverts in disputed articles, so how exactly is this the example of some "major disruption"? I certainly had no intention to be involved in long-term revert warring about this - evidence for this is fact that I did not touched any more Greek-related articles - I thought that FocalPoint is only concerned about these articles. But, nevertheless, I think that there should be evidence that I had more than two reverts in some of the articles if one want to claim that I had intention of long-term revert warring in any of these articles. I was simply annoyed by the fact that I lost several hours of my time for nothing, that is all. ] 20:28, 6 May 2012 (UTC)


:Thanks Bish: I agree, as my exchanges with PH today, in response to my first post here, have not inspired confidence. . ] (]) 20:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
Yes, this is exactly my point. Since:
*you cannot make a clear distinction whether someone says "yes" or whether they say "let us discuss" with statements such as ] to move them all, or just revert to ]" and "either all categories should be moved <u>after discussion</u>, or none."]
*you are spending several hours of your time for nothing based on such erroneous and single sided decisions, without resorting to consultation
*you have difficulty in accepting that several hours of your time were lost for nothing and keep insisting for a very long time on these positions
well, it may be a good idea to protect yourself and the wikipedia by following some restrictions (if this process decides to such restrictions). Think about it. It might not be such a bad thing after all. --] (]) 22:13, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
::But after these users agreed with name that I proposed I did not thought that I have to discuss this with somebody else. I did not had idea that anybody would object my actions. ] 22:30, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
:::PANONIAN, what you claim is incorrect. I never supported your one-sided decision and actions to rename "Ottoman Serbia" article, or any other "Ottoman X" article or category. I wrote (on your talkpage, not on ]) that when Zoupan pointed to: ] and explained you that you can:
:::# either "start discussion" in order to rename all articles and categories,
:::# or revert to "Ottoman X" title
::: because "there should be a norm" (). --] (]) 00:35, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
:::: But Zoupan said that . Obviously, I misunderstood with which part of his post you agree. ] 07:31, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


=====Comment by Lothar von Richthofen===== ====Statement by UtherSRG====
I've mostly dealt with PH around ]. They do not seem to have the ability to read and understand our policies and processes. As such, a t-ban is too weak. The minimum I would support is a p-block as suggested below, though a full indef is also acceptable. They could then ask for the ] when they can demonstrate they no longer have ] issues. - ] ] 20:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
I became "involved" in this dispute one day while stalking ]. I noticed that DIREKTOR, whom I had seen around in various places and had some passing incidental interactions with, was the subject of one of the investigations and decided to check it out—it's always interesting when an established editor gets mixed up in such funny business. But when I looked at the SPI, something immediately felt not quite "kosher" about it. Peacemaker67 and D seemed to me to be clearly not the same person—similar views on a topic do not make two people the same. Using the wikichecker tool, my suspicions were confirmed. The editing patterns of these two users checked out for the places of the world they said they were from; D would have to be up 24/7 to operate the PM67 account in such a way. Based on this, checkuser was declined and the SPI thrown unceremoniously into the closing heap. The "sockpuppetry" accusations should have ended right there and then. Imagine my surprise and consternation when I see that PANONIAN is tossing around the same nonsense claims at AN/I a few days later. The fact that he eventually was forced to retreat from this position means little when you consider that he ]. The fact that he attempted to canvass two "friendly" editors to support him (, ) should also be noted.


:Based on , I'm more strongly leaning towards indef. - ] ] 12:27, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
As for the underlying content dispute, I don't have much to say; I have not been involved much with it. However, it should be noted that P made an attempt to change the title of a different article pertaining to a WWII German military administration (see ]) in order to influence the debate at the "Serbia" article in his favour. This cannot be viewed as anything but more forumshopping on his part. In my view, PANONIAN displays a gross ] mentality in this topic area. Sanctions are long overdue.
::They now indicate they believe the article they edited was copied from one of the websites they used as a reference, when in reality the website is a mirror/scrape of the Misplaced Pages article. I believe we are firmly in ] territory here. - ] ] 14:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
::: is a mirror of the Misplaced Pages article. - ] ] 16:29, 31 December 2024 (UTC)


===Result concerning PerspicazHistorian ===
<small>Note: As I am going to be very busy IRL this week, I won't be able to participate much here.</small> ~~ ] (]) 19:19, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''


{{u|PerspicazHistorian}}, can you explain your understanding of ] and the ] rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring ''even if they aren't breaking 3RR''. ] (]) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
:Lothar von Richthofen, these diffs where I accused Peacemaker67 to be sockpuppet of DIREKTOR are more than a month old - I said in ANI board that I will not repeat such accusations publicly ever again, and I never did (after ANI thread about these accusations, I mean - not after my initial request for checkuser investigation). Why one should impose sanctions on me when I clearly changed my behavior regarding this issue? I am very reasonable person, so if administrators think that I should change anything else in my behavior, it would be enough that they tell me what I should change and I will never repeat that behavior (and if I do repeat anything that administrators would tell me not to repeat, they are free to block me for good). ] 20:46, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
:::Note that this thread is about a long-term behaviour pattern; as such, I feel justified in presenting the situation in full. I don't regard these diffs to be critical, just more bits of evidence in the case. A "very reasonable" person would have dropped the matter after a Checkuser summarily rejected the case. You, on the other hand, needed to be near-shouted down in multiple venues to finally get the message. And even after it was finally driven into your head that they could not possibly be the same person, you the two of meatpuppetry. Though this request is not about that drama ''specifically'', it is about your conduct in the topic area in general; this incident, though a bit old, is recent enough to demonstrate a pattern of problematic behaviour on your part. ~~ ] (]) 21:22, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
:@], that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is ''the first time'' someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that?
::::OK, Lothar, I said that I will not spoke publicly about this any more and I do not want to broke my word. If you want, I can send you email where I will explain myself and this case in private conversation? ] 21:51, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
:<small>Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is ]; in their ] NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here.</small> ] (]) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::I'm seeing this as a CIR issue. I'd like input from other admins, if possible. I'm a little concerned that setting a tban from IPA is just setting a trap. Maybe a p-block from article space would be a kinder way to allow them to gain some experience? ] (]) 13:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:::@], have you seen how many times I or others have had to move your comments to your own section? This is an example of not having enough experience to edit productively. Please do not post in anyone else's section again. ] (]) 16:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I do agree we're in CIR territory, and the concerns expressed are completely valid. I don't think this editor is ill-intentioned. They just don't seem very motivated to learn quickly. Well-intentioned-but-a-slow-learner is something that can only be fixed by actually practicing what you're bad at. I'd prefer an indef from article space which gives them one more chance to learn here before we send them off to mr.wiki or Simple English to try to learn. Not a hill I'm going to die on, though. ] (]) 11:36, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::@], like Uther I have major concerns about the edit you made yesterday, which included replacing a citation needed tag with these sources.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Significance of Different Type of Prasad in Hinduism For God |url=https://www.ganeshaspeaks.com/predictions/astrology/prasad-food-for-god/ |access-date=2024-12-30 |website=GaneshaSpeaks |language=en-GB}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=What Is Prashad |url=https://www.swaminarayan.faith/articles/what-is-prashad |access-date=2024-12-30 |website=Shree Swaminarayan Mandir Bhuj |language=en}}</ref> The first is a company that markets astrology services. The second is the site for a religious sect. Neither is a reliable source for explaining the concept of prasada in Wikivoice. You made this edit ''yesterday'', after you'd confirmed here and on my talk that you understood sourcing policy.
:::::The reason for an indef from article space is to allow you to learn this policy: You would go into article talk and suggest sources to fix citation needed tags. Another editor would have to agree with you that the sources are reliable before they'd add them. ] (]) 12:51, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
*A tban from IPA for PerspicazHistorian would be a relief to many editors trying to keep this difficult area in reasonable shape. However, Valereee makes a good point about 'setting a trap': it's doubtful that PH would be able to keep to a tban even if they tried in good faith. I would therefore support a p-block from article space. ] &#124; ] 16:48, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
*:{{u|Vanamonde93}}, no, I don't really think PH can usefully help clean up their mess; I was following Valereee, who has been going into this in some depth, in attempting to keep some way of editing Misplaced Pages open for PH. It's a bit of a counsel of desperation, though; there is very little daylight between an indef and a p-block from article space. Yes, we ''are'' in CIR territory; just look at PH's ] for NXcrypto being "engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics": one diff of an opponent complaining on NXcrypto's page, and one diff of somebody reverting NXcrypto. What do those actually prove? That NXcrypto has opponents (big surprise). So, yes, as you suggest, I'll support an indef as well. ] &#124; ] 20:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
*Is there a length of time proposed for the p-ban or would it be indefinite? ] (]) 17:06, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
*:I would say indefinite; not infinite, but I'd be wary about letting them back into articlespace without some kind of preclearance. ] (] • she/her) 18:39, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
*<!--
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{{reflist talk}}
::Regarding article about "Administration in Belgium and Northern France", don't you think that I renamed that article simply because I thought that other name is better? Note that my interest include various parts of the World, including this: . So, I am not editing articles about other countries with "only goal of influencing the debate at the Serbia articles in my favour". ] 20:53, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
:::Your mentioning of global interest is a red herring. The two articles deal with highly similar subjects and should be viewed as related. ~~ ] (]) 21:22, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
::::I do not deny that two articles are related. I only thought that I am doing right thing after I saw these sources: . After I did not reverted him, but . After most users rejected my proposal, I did not edited that article again or spoke again about name of this article. I think that this is nice example of my disruptive behavior. :) ] 21:32, 6 May 2012 (UTC)


==Walter Tau==
=====Comment by Buckshot06=====
{{hat|Consensus to indefinitely block Walter Tau. ] (] • she/her) 22:11, 31 December 2024 (UTC)}}
I've been asked to comment here by ]; I was the admin that steered the above-mentioned discussion on ]. Yes, I believe that particular dispute is now settled, though I'm waiting for any further comments that interested parties may wish to make, before putting into place what has been agreed upon. However, what I saw in the course of steering that discussion, yes, I do believe that ] is showing a lack of ], a lack of ], is not always assuming other editors have legitimate points of view, and is certainly treating WP as a battleground. I would personally believe that at the very least he needs to be strongly counselled as to the fundamental purposes of wikipedia, and, given his long editing history here, should that not have effect, strong penalties ought to be under consideration. ] ] 04:10, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
:One correction. I'm afraid that, if we consider PANONIAN a participant, the dispute is very far from settled. In fact, as I pointed out at ], in that case it hasn't progressed an inch in several months. This is simply because, no matter what sources or arguments are presented, PANONIAN will in essence simply ignore them and re-start the discussion ''over and over and over'' again. At best he might offer some "''quid pro quo'' compromise" half-way between sources and fantasy. You may have gotten the wrong impression due to the fact that I (and apparently Peacemaker67 as well) am at this point refusing to make a fool of myself and repeat the same "discussion" fort the fifteenth time. <font face="Eras Bold ITC">-- ] <span style="color:#464646">(])</span></font> 05:29, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


===Request concerning Walter Tau===
:{{ec}}Re "fundamental purposes": I should think that an editor active since 2004 with over 50,000 edits should have become well-acquainted by now with how this show is run—especially given the Arbitration-heavy topic area he edits in. The more lenient "strong counselling" option is generally extended to more inexperienced individuals; there really is no excuse for such behaviour from a veteran battleground editor. ~~ ] (]) 05:34, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Bobby Cohn}} 20:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Walter Tau}}<p>{{ds/log|Walter Tau}}</p>
All right, let me post my final word at this "trial":
*I will not say that I am example of perfect editor. As User Lothar von Richthofen pointed, I am here for long time, I have many edits, I wrote several hundred articles, created many images and maps for Misplaced Pages (check my uploads in Wikimedia Commons: http://commons.wikimedia.org/Special:ListFiles/PANONIAN ), etc, etc. So, I am certainly not fully disruptive editor. Yes, I have bad temper and I do not always assume good faith about other users (partly because in these 8 years I saw a lot of them that indeed are not having good faith), but I am trying to be as polite as I can. Yes, when I am too much annoyed by behavior of others I do send them some maybe "inappropriate comments" from time to time, but even these comments are in the limits of civility.
*However, is an evidence that I was much more a target of inappropriate behavior of ] towards me (this user used almost every his post there to discuss my personality instead article content and I mostly tried not to "retaliate" in same way in my posts). Here are the examples of such behavior of DIREKTOR addressed towards me and other users:
**
**
**
**
**
**
*So, DIREKTOR clearly used his posts for inappropriate personal comments about me and other users that do not share his position - he raised direct accusation that user WhiteWriter is my meatpuppet and that two of us are involved in "organized revert warring", while I was constantly accused for POV-pushing, nationalism, personal reasons, etc.
*While my involvement in "Ottoman history of countries" was just an episode and fully isolated incident, there is indeed long term dispute between me and DIREKTOR in various pages related to World War II in Yugoslavia (Peacemaker67 and PRODUCER are only "cooperating" with DIREKTOR there). Please see examples of this Woorld War II dispute in various articles: , , , , ,
*Also see involvement of DIREKTOR, PRODUCER and Peacemaker in other WWII articles which I did not edited - there, these 3 users had disputes with others: , , , , . and are showing long-term revert warring that involved these 3 users for almost 2 years - just check their names and reverts in these two lists.
*Finally, let me admit my guilt and propose my punishment: I admit involvement in long-term dispute with ] in article that is currently named ] (and this dispute lasts for more than a year: http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Serbia_(Territory_of_the_German_Military_Commander)/Archive_2 ). So, I am proposing that both of us are topic baned for 6 months from editing of articles related to World War II in Yugoslavia (I need a rest from that, anyway). Similar sanctions against PRODUCER and Peacemaker67 should be considered, due to their involvement in . ] 07:02, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
::Could you please address your own conduct, rather than constantly criticizing mine for some reason? Cherry-picking comments our of context is what you attempted in your several ANI reports, and the only thing that came out of that was a recommendation to bring your own behavior up for review here. That said, if you believe you really have a legitimate grievance this time, file another report. Here though, my sincerest advice is that you please focus on your conduct, rather than that of others. <font face="Eras Bold ITC">-- ] <span style="color:#464646">(])</span></font> 07:29, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
:::Near as I can tell, PANONIAN has realised that his ship is fast a-sinkin' here and has decided to try and take his opposition down with him. In any nasty dispute, there will be reprehensible conduct on both sides; it is important, however, to recognise the primary instigator of the problems and move accordingly in any enforcement. In this case, I think it has become clear that PANONIAN is that instigator. ~~ ] (]) 08:47, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
::::I am only proposing small "punishment" for all of us. I personally was not active in Misplaced Pages for about 2 years by my own choice, so I do not see that "6 months topic ban" is an example of a big "take down". It would be reasonable period for everybody involved in this to cool their heads. I was already thinking to take a Wiki break from this subject for few months, so I did not proposed anything that I did not already planned. Why you think that I am "main instigator" here? ] 09:24, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
=====Comment by Peacemaker67=====
A couple of points of clarification before I address the AE. I wanted to come here with the SPI/meatpuppet nonsense, but just didn't have the skills or time that PRODUCER has committed here, and I thank PRODUCER for the diffs and comprehensive way this has been approached. I've also only been on here for six months, and am still learning the ropes about what is appropriate or not. The above accusation that I've been conspiring with PRODUCER and DIREKTOR for almost 2 years is clearly nonsense (I've only been on here for six months, for starters). Some of the reverting on the articles he is referring to was reverting of an editor who was subsequently topic banned after a lot of disruption similar to that PANONIAN has engaged in.


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
However, to keep to the point, PANONIAN has been extremely difficult to discuss matters with due to a bad case of chronic ] and failure to ] on ]. I have found this extremely frustrating. When I was really at the end of my rope, in desperation I brought the matter to WT:MILHIST, where Buckshot06 was kind enough to get involved and bring the key issues to a resolution, despite (I might say, rather than due to) PANONIAN's continuation of his application of the sustained rate of repetition and his ignoring of sources in favour of raw Google search hits on the word 'Serbia' and maps from the Bronx community college website. His lack of engagement with WP policy can be seen from his complete lack of engagement with it at ]. Thanks. ] (]) 09:24, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
Well,let just examine these diffs that I collected from few articles.
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# Creation (and subsequent editing and AfC submission) of ]. See it's page history, there's no need to supply the entirety of the diffs here.
#* For context on how this subject falls under the purview, see the context given by the news article as shared on the talk page: Russia using adoption of Ukranian children during the Russo-Ukranian war.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Bruce |first1=Camdyn |title=Ukrainian official rips Russia for 'kidnapping' more than 13,000 children |url=https://thehill.com/policy/international/3775681-ukrainian-official-rips-russia-for-kidnapping-more-than-13000-children/ |work=The Hill |date=14 December 2022}}</ref> Then note how this state program directly discusses adoption support, which was adapted by Putin following the start of the war. A citation given in the draft article.<ref>{{cite news |title=Путин подписал закон, уточняющий условия выплаты материнского капитала |url=https://www.interfax.ru/russia/937864 |work=interfax.ru|trans-title=Putin signs law clarifying conditions for payment of maternity capital}}</ref> The version specifically notes the changes "At the same time, residents of the '''''new regions''''' will receive maternity capital '''''regardless of the basis and timing of their acquisition of Russian citizenship'''''" (emphasis mine).
#:This draft, as it is written, is extremely promotional in areas and could basically be hosted on a state-sponsored website. Given the context, I believe this falls under the topic ban.
{{reflist-talk}}


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
] article:
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
* - 11:25, 24 February 2012, Peacemaker67 reverted Jingiby
* - 11:35, 24 February 2012, Peacemaker67 reverted Jingiby # Notice given by {{admin|Rosguill}} that they were now subject to an arbitration enforcement sanction
* - 11:41, 24 February 2012, DIREKTOR reverted BoDu # Blocked by {{admin|Swatjester}} for violating the sanction based on the edits to a project page.
* - 12:18, 24 February 2012, Peacemaker67 reverted BoDu
* - 16:01, 24 February 2012, DIREKTOR reverted BoDu
* - 17:16, 24 February 2012, PRODUCER reverted BoDu
* - 22:44, 24 February 2012, Peacemaker67 reverted BoDu
* - 10:45, 26 February 2012, PRODUCER reverted BoDu
* - 23:44, 26 February 2012, DIREKTOR reverted BoDu


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
similar examples could be seen in other pages, for example here: http://en.wikipedia.org/Template:Yugoslav_Axis_collaborationism
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
* - 11:41, 24 February 2012‎, DIREKTOR reverted BoDu
*Has been made aware, see the diffs in the above section.
* - 12:28, 24 February 2012, DIREKTOR reverted BoDu
*Alerted about contentious topics as it applies to this specific draft, on by {{admin|Asilvering}}, given a warning about this specific draft and how it falls under the above purview.
* - 12:50, 24 February 2012‎, DIREKTOR reverted BoDu
* - 13:27, 24 February 2012, Peacemaker67 reverted BoDu
* - 17:21, 24 February, PRODUCER reverted BoDu
* - 22:40, 24 February, Peacemaker67 reverted BoDu
* - 10:44, 26 February, PRODUCER reverted BoDu


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
Similar problem in ] article:
<!-- Add any further comment here -->
*
It has been repeatedly pointed out to Walter Tau that they are skirting the line of the their topic ban by specifically not mentioning the "elephant in the room", see the diff by Asilvering above. They have also repeatedly chosen to ignore advice that they stop editing in the subject area and have repeatedly claimed to fail to see how their editing is problematic. As such, I have opened this discussion here so as to get an answer for Walter Tau on their editing, see They claim to continuously be unaware of the ban, see also their talk page discussions.
*


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
These are obvious examples of coordinated revert warring of 3 users about controversial subject of Chetnik collaboration in WW2, where these users aimed to propagate one-sided POV about the subject. ] 10:56, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
Notified .


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
::"Coordinated revert warring of 3 users"? Or maybe there was just one user—BoDu—who didn't get the message and continued pushing his own views in the face of consensus, as the later AE case would indicate? Hmm, that sounds remarkably like...... ''you''. ~~ ] (]) 12:30, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


===Discussion concerning Walter Tau===
: So now it's two months, not two years? User:BoDu was topic-banned for 90 days ]. ] (]) 11:02, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
:: He was not banned in the time of your revert-warring, was he? I am not saying that his behavior was good, but how exactly is your behavior better? ] 11:05, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
::: In fact, in February 24, you had revert war against two users in one same article - these are 4 reverts in one article in a single day. ] 11:10, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
:::: Regarding "2 years", DIREKTOR and PRODUCER are present here so long. Your account joined them latter, of course. ] 11:12, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
::::: A WP:FORUMSHOPPING war was conducted by User:BoDu in order to prevail by "alternative" means in a content dispute on Template:Yugoslav Axis collaborationism. After being blocked and forced to stop edit-warring against everyone, the user posted a thread on WP:DRN, tried to delete the whole template on WP:TFD, reported User:Director on WP:ANI, canvassed various admins to sanction him, and so on. Then WP:AE against User:Director, which WP:BOOMERANGed. That's it in a nutshell. ] (]) 11:14, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
::::::Peacemaker, it's unnecessary to play into PANONIAN's little "diversion". He's here to answer for his actions and his actions only. These attempts at shifting attention to something else only further illustrate his failure to do so. --<font face="xx-medium serif"> ]</font></font> <sub>(])</sub></font> 11:37, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
:::::: Thanks PRODUCER, I stand corrected. Interesting that he's reverted to referring to me as 'your account'... You're not back to sockpuppet accusations, are you PANONIAN? ] (]) 11:46, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


=====Comment by WhiteWriter===== ====Statement by Walter Tau====
I feel, that the decision by ] regarding my draft https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:Maternity_capital, is "arbitrary and capriciuos" to use US legal terms : ], for the following reasons:
I just want to say that user Director POV pushed large amount of data and articles, without anyone's agreement or consensus, now when PANONIAN is under enforcement. Also, i find unacceptable that only one side takes punishment while other was equally problematic, if not even more. And i want to say that this report seams fabricated, as only one side was presented, without other aspects. User PANONIAN edit wikipedia for years, and he created numerous fantastic articles and contributions, so it looks interesting that only this traveling circus finds him disruptive. PANONIAN is only editor in this dispute that tryed all ways to resolve the problems, while user DIREKTOR mostly ignored all others that are not in his POV. Endless repetition of your POV is not enough for constructive solution. --<span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">]<sup>]</sup></span> 13:45, 8 May 2012 (UTC)


1) nowhere my draft mentions the words "Ukraine" or "Ukrainian".
===Result concerning PANONIAN===
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
*I notified ] and ] of this AE request since they are admins who have taken some actions related to this topic. Sanctions should be considered for ]. I've been following the discussion about ] since the article has been mentioned at ANI (for instance ). The question is what is the best title to use. It seems there is no perfect title, and we would expect editors to consult the sources and come up with a compromise that would cause the least astonishment. In the discussion at ] it seemed to me that PANONIAN had a single-minded determination that Serbia existed as a country during the German occupation and he would reject any sources to the contrary found by others. The evidence suggests that PANONIAN is unable to participate neutrally in talk-page discussions concerning Serbia. ] (]) 15:02, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


2) this draft ] is a translation of the original Russian wiki- article : https://ru.wikipedia.org/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB . I have heard the argument, that different languages in Misplaced Pages use different standards for articles' notability etc. Can someone please provide a web-link to Misplaced Pages rules, that actually confirms, that different standards for different languages is the currently accepted policy. I have been unable to find such statement.
*The display at the above-linked talkpages isn't pretty, and I'm inclined to agree with EdJohnston's assessment. I'd like to see PANONIAN banned from all articles and discussions related to Serbia, broadly construed; whether that should be a time-fixed ban or an indefinite one I'd like other opinions on. ] (]) 18:14, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

3) In fact, my draft focuses mostly on the policies before 24 February 2022, i.e. before full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine.

4) Please correct me, if I am wrong, by it seems that ]'s only argument of my ban violation is the following statement in my draft of ].
"Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship." In my defense: I did not write that statement- it is a Google translation from the Russian wiki, actually a small part of the translated text. And with all honesty, when I was reading the translated text, it did not cross my mind, that someone may interpret so broadly. Also, this sentence-in-question does not really add much to the main subject to the article, and I do not object to its deletion.

5) Considering, that
a) I did not write, but only translated the text-in-question;
b) the relevance to the text-in-question to my topic ban is not apparent, particularly in the larger context of the whole article;
c) I do not object deleting the text-in-question from the draft;
may I suggest changing the draft to fix this controversy?

6) If there are other controversial sections/sentences in my translated draft, it may be better if someone re-writes them. Most wiki-readers, can agree with a statement, that this draft ] may not reach an "Article of the Day" status, but it has a value as a stand-alone article as well as a source of references (more-to-be-added).
] (]) 13:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

I can see now, why some editors consider the translated addition, that I made, a violation of my ban on editing Russia-Ukraine topic. It was not my intention. I fact, I agree with the deletion of the questionable sentence "Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship.". At the same time, I would like to keep the rest of draft, so that myself and other keep working on getting it published. Do I understand correctly, that the notability of this topic is not being questioned?

====Statement by TylerBurden====
Walter Tau doesn't seem to think they have done anything wrong on Misplaced Pages, so it's honestly not surprising to see them continuing to push the limit despite the sanctions they have received. At some point you have to wonder if there is a foundational ] or trolling (or a combination of both) issue. Either way, yes they are clearly violating their topic ban by writing about the Russian kidnapping of Ukrainian children from the war, because that is what this whole ″adoption″ thing is. --] (]) 17:22, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

===Result concerning Walter Tau===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*Sidestepping for now the question of whether simply not mentioning anything conflict-related would have been enough to avoid a TBAN violation, the references to "new regions" make this a violation much more straightforwardly. Justice is blind but not stupid. Walter, I think we're going to need to see recognition from you that this was a TBAN violation, if we're going to find a good path forward here. I'd also like to know who you are referring to when you reference other editors working on the draft? ] has made some gnomish edits but you appear to be the only substantive editor. And why are you implying, on Bobby's talk, that y'all have been corresponding by email, when he denies that? <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 22:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*I'll be direct: I think Walter knows what he is doing and has no intention of abiding by his TBAN, , and I don't think we should be wasting further time here when we're almost certainly going to be right back here again within a few weeks. ]] <small><sup>Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!</sup></small> 05:29, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
*Back off a one week block for violating the topic ban, and already violating it again? (The "new regions" material is unquestionably a violation.) It seems that Walter Tau is either unwilling or unable to abide by the restriction, and does not, even after explanation, understand any of the issues here (or even understand something so simple as that different language Wikipedias are independent from one another and each have their own policies and practices). Given that, I don't see anything to be done here except to indef. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 17:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
* I am 48 hours early to the party, but I would support an indef here --] <sup>]</sup> 16:43, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*:{{yo|Tamzin|Swatjester}} Planning to close this one, since it's been a week – any closing thoughts on the remedy? ] (] • she/her) 16:31, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Seems like everyone responding so far is aligned w/ an indef, which I'd support. ]] <small><sup>Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!</sup></small> 21:16, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
{{hab}}


==LaylaCares==
::::Articles related to Serbia represent ~.001% of the articles we have on Misplaced Pages; surely you can find ''something'' else to edit. If you do good work elsewhere, that'll be something we take into consideration. ] (]) 18:56, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
{{hat|There is consensus to remove LaylaCares's EC flag. ] (]) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)}}
:::::Blade of the Northern Lights, EdJohnston, two points. Firstly, is Panonian allowed to edit in this section ? It is marked for uninvolved admins only. Surely this has to be enforced. Secondly, Blade of the Northern Lights, if you wish to consider my view, I would completely agree with your proposal re Panonian. Regards ] ] 19:22, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
::::::No, he's supposed to edit one of the sections above, but I'm not going to try moving comments on an iPhone, so it'd be greatly appreciated if someone else could handle that. ] (]) 19:27, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


===Request concerning LaylaCares===
== DionysosElysees ==
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Vice regent}} 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|LaylaCares}}<p>{{ds/log|LaylaCares}}</p>
{{hat|1=Indefinitely blocked by another admin for abuse of multiple accounts. ] (]) 00:17, 8 May 2012 (UTC) }}
===Request concerning DionysosElysees===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - ''']'''</small> 21:56, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|DionysosElysees}}
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> <!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. --> <!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# EC gaming
# Added "''']''': The predominantly Christian and English-speaking people inhabiting the United States" to the ]
# Explanation for the edit "added white americans for same logic on including "Palestinians""



; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) :
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. -->
#] by Malik Shabazz but the page contains multiple warnings i.e. the editor is well aware of the sanctions


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : ; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
Pretty obvious case of EC gaming. Account created on Nov 17, 2024, then about 500 mostly minor edits followed by the first substantial edit ever was the creation of on Dec 17 (subsequently moved to draftspace).''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
This is partly a test case to see whether AE can handle it.
* An editor makes a seemingly disruptive edit by adding white Americans to the list of indigenous peoples apparently to make a ].
* The WARNING: ACTIVE ARBITRATION REMEDIES header makes it quite clear that "After being warned, any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process may be blocked up to one year, topic-banned, further revert-restricted, or otherwise restricted from editing."
* I have no personal interest in either the article or whether or not white people in the Americas or Palestinians are indigenous peoples but I am interested in whether this kind of behavior is within scope of this board.
* I should add that although it would be a trivial exercise to compile a series of diffs to illustrate other behavior that I think violates the sanctions, I've deliberately limited this report to this particular edit so that discussion can focus on it alone.


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : ; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> <!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


===Discussion concerning DionysosElysees=== ===Discussion concerning LaylaCares===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by DionysosElysees==== ====Statement by LaylaCares====


====Statement by Aquillion====
====Comments by others about the request concerning DionysosElysees====
Question: Assuming it's determined that they gamed the extended-confirmed restriction, would the page they created be ]-able? I've asked the relevant question in more detail ], since it is likely to come up again as long as we have such a broad restriction on effect, but I figured it was worth mentioning the issue here as well. --] (]) 14:16, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


=====Statement by User:Maunus===== ===Statement by Dan Murphy===
Please look at ], written by the account under discussion. It's a hit job, originally placed in mainspace by this account. Anyone who wrote that shouldn't be allowed with 1 million miles of the topic.] (]) 23:14, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
Obvious WP:POINT disruption. Needs to stop. There is ongoing discussion on the list of indigenous people about whether palestinians fit the inclusion criteria (recognition as indigenous per international legislation) - the inclusion of white people is irrelevant to the question of palestinan indigeneity, obviously doesn't fall under the definition, and the source given doesn't even support the claim anyway.]·] 22:29, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


====Statement by starship.paint====
===Result concerning DionysosElysees===
I've edited Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations, so Dan Murphy's link is inaccurate for the purposes of this discussion. For the version of Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations with content only written by LaylaCares, . '''] (] / ])''' 10:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->

:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
====Statement by (username)====

<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

===Result concerning LaylaCares===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*I agree that this looks like EC-gaming. Absent evidence that the edits themselves were problematic, I would either TBAN from ARBPIA or pull the EC flag until the user has made 500 edits that aren't rapidfire possibly LLM-assisted gnomish edits. ] (]) 17:02, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
*I agree on the gaming piece and would suggest mainspace edits+time for restoration of EC. I will throw out 3 months + 500 (substantive) main space edits. ] (]) 17:16, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
*I agree with Barkeep but I'd up it to 4 months. I don't believe that a TBAN is necessary at this point. ] (]/]) 04:45, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
*@]: I agree that the draft should be G5'd, but will wait for consensus to develop here. ] (]/]) 01:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:I don't think the wording of ] allows for deletion of a page that was created by an EC user. <small>(ECR also seems to forget that anything other than articles and talkpages exists, but I think the most reasonable reading of provision A still allows for G5ing drafts at admins' discretion if the criteria are met.)</small> That said, a consensus at AE can delete a page as a "reasonable measure that necessary and proportionate for the smooth running of the project". Deleting under that provision is not something to be done lightly, but I think for a case where a page's existence violates the spirit of an ArbCom restriction but not the letter, it'd be a fair time to do it. And/or this could make for a good ARCA question, probably after PIA5 wraps. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 03:48, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*I would just pull EC and require the editor to apply via AE appeal for its restoration. They should be very clearly aware that receiving such restoration will require both substantial time and making ''real'', substantive edits outside the area, as well as an understanding of what is expected of editors working in a CTOP area. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 01:22, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*I see a clear consensus here to remove the EC flag. For clarity, when I proposed a TBAN above it was because removing this flag ''is'' an ARBPIA TBAN as long as the ECR remedy remains in place; it's simply a question of whether the editor get the other privileges of EC or not. I don't see a consensus on what to do with the draft, but given that other editors have now made substantive contributions to it, I don't believe it's a good use of AE time to discuss the hypothetical further. ] (]) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
{{hab}} {{hab}}

==AstroGuy0==
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

===Request concerning AstroGuy0===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Hemiauchenia}} 03:41, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|AstroGuy0}}<p>{{ds/log|AstroGuy0}}</p>

<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
(Even though this isn't the usual R&I fare, I consider the intersection of "Race/ethnicity and sex offending", to come under "the intersection of '''race/ethnicity''' and human abilities '''and behaviour'''")

; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# Asserts that "A majority of the perpetrators were Pakistani men" despite the cited source (freely accessible at ) does not mention the word "Pakistani" or any variant once.
# Describes the sex offender ring as "Pakistani" in the opening sentence when the cited source in the body says that they were only "mainly Pakistani"

; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :

;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):

: Made aware of contentious topics criterion:
<!-- Add any further comment here -->

; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->

<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

Additional comments by editor filing complaint:

This new user seems intent on POVPUSHING regarding "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" and making contentious claims that are not backed up by sources. ] (]) 03:44, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

===Discussion concerning AstroGuy0===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

====Statement by AstroGuy0====

====Statement by Iskandar323====
This rather dated "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" malarkey from the UK has recently been pushed on social media by a certain US tech billionaire and is now recirculating in right-wing social media and the blogosphere, partly in connection with UK politics, so this trend could flare before it dims. ] (]) 03:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

===Result concerning AstroGuy0===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*<!--
-->
:The second diff was before AG0 received a CTOP alert. I've alerted AG0 to other CTOPs that they've edited in, and I am going to warn them for their conduct in diff #1 without prejudice to other admins determining that further action is warranted. ] (]/]) 04:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:I also looked at the source, and it indeed does not in any way support the claim made; it does not mention "Pakistani" even once. This is a fairly new editor, but I think we need to make it very clear to them that misrepresentation of sources is not something we will tolerate. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 04:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 17:55, 5 January 2025

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    Ethiopian Epic

    Topic banned from Yasuke --Guerillero 19:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Ethiopian Epic

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Tinynanorobots (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 11:23, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Ethiopian Epic (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. November 14th created during the Yasuke case and went active when it ended. First 11 edits were to Government of Japan. In one case three edits were used to write one sentence.
    2. November 12 Manually reverted the lead back to how it was in September.
    3. November 16 Falsely Claimed cited material was OR. (G
    4. November 24 Falsely Claimed cited material was unsourced
    5. November 24 It took an ANI report to get him to use the article talk page. His defense was accusations and denial.
    6. November 23 He reverted to a version that went against consensus established on the talk page and contained a falsely sourced quote.
    7. November 25 Engages in sealioning
    8. November 29 Removes a well sourced line from Yasuke as well as reverted an edit that was the result of BRD. He has now started disputes with me on all three Yasuke related articles.
    9. November 30 starts disputing a new section of
    10. December 2 Brought again to ANI, he claims that I didn't get consensus for changes, even though I had discussed them on talk prior to making them.
    11. December 4 He keeps mentioning ONUS, and asking me to discuss it, in response to me discussing.
    12. December 9 Used a non-controversial revert to hide his edit warring.
    13. December 11 did the same thing on List of foreign-born samurai in Japan.
    14. December 11 He also repeatedly complains that he doesn't like the definition because it is vague and claims that his preferred version is "status quo"
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. Date Explanation
    2. Date Explanation
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    [
    • Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on December 1 (see the system log linked to above).


    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I have decided that Misplaced Pages is not worth my time. I want to write about history, not get caught up in wikipolitics and intrigue. There are systematic problems with wikipedia, where it is difficult to come to a conclusion to a discussion and openness is discouraged. Seeking help or advice with an issue opens one to the accusation of forum shopping or canavassing. One is expected to be perfect, but it is unclear what perfect is. Admins complain that a recall petition that lasts more than seven days is cruel, but drag out ArbCom processes and ignore AE threads for days. This whole process has been miserable. Tinynanorobots (talk) 16:35, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning Ethiopian Epic

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Ethiopian Epic

    This is clear retaliatory filing because I recently didn't agree with Tinynanorobot's edits against RFC consensus, and because I made talk page sections on some recent edits.

    @Eronymous That's not true and you are a very obvious alt account with only 26 edits. No one gave you a notification of this discussion and it's not on the Yasuke talk page. This suggests you are the sock puppet of someone here. Your post is also misleading and incorrect it wasn't an insertion. The line you are talking about in Samurai has been there for over 10 years and is normal. I know because I've read it before. Here is a version from 2017 that still has it. I don't understand why you are misrepresenting edits and using an alt account.

    @Red-tailed hawk I think he is just fishing. That's why he removed his IP claims. Even his other diffs are just mislabeled regular behavior. It's amusing because Eronymous is the likely alt of Tinynanorobots or someone posting here. I think the way Tinynanorobots edits against clear consensus, skips discussion, and then files frivolous ANI/AE reports with misleading narrative like above is disruptive. Discussion is an easy solution and benefits everyone. I hope he will respect RFC consensus.

    @Barkeep49: Tinynanorobot's recent "do-over" comment above is likely an attempt by him to hide the negative admin response to his own conduct and his fishing here. He shouldn't be able to remove the admin response to his report, so that he can do more fishing, before the admins even make their decision. It seems like gaming AE. He also recently disrupted the samurai talk page by hiding the comments of other users with a misleading edit summary.

    @Valereee I wasn't sure if it was drive-by vandalism by Tofflenheim (I don't have deep context but he is mentioned here by name) so I made sure to respect 1RR. I made a talk section I'll let other editors handle it. EEpic (talk) 22:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Relm

    I am largely unfamiliar with the account in question, but I do frequently check Yasuke. I believe that EthiopianEpic has displayed a clear slant and battleground mindset in their editing in regards to the topic of Yasuke, but that their conduct on the Yasuke page itself so far has generally been in the ballpark of good faith edits. The revert on December 9th was justified, and their topic on November 29th is well within bounds (though I acknowledge that the background of their prior disputes on other pages with Tinynanorobots shows it may be edit warring) given that the two things being reverted was a change that seemed to skirt the prior RFC with agreement being given in a very non-direct way, and the other portion being an addition which had not been discussed on the talk page prior to its implementation (though previous discussions ered on the side of not including it). I am not accusing Tinynanorobots of any misconduct in any part of that either.

    What I will note is that in addition to the sockpuppet IP allegations made by Tinynanorobots, I wanted to lodge that the posting style of EthiopianEpic, as well as their knowledge of much of the previous discussions on the page deep in the archive, led me to suspect that they were an alt of User:Symphony_Regalia. I never found anything conclusive. Relm (talk) 14:48, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Simonm223

    These two editors have been tangling at WP:AN/I repeatedly. Last time they came there I said that this would likely continue until a third party intervened. And then the thread got archived with no action (see AN/I thread here) so I'm not surprised that the two of them are still tangling. There is evidence that both editors have engaged in a slow-motion edit war. Both have claimed the other is editing against consensus. Here I will say that it appears TinyNanoRobots is more correct than Ethiopian Epic. Furthermore, while neither editors' comportment has been stellar, as other editors have pointed out, it appears more that EE is following TNR about and giving them a hard time than the alternate. . In the linked AN/I case (above) you'll note EE attempted a boomerang on TNR and was not well-received for the effort.

    Frankly my view is that both editors are not editing to the best standards of Misplaced Pages but there is definitely a more disruptive member of this duo and that is Ethiopian Epic. I think it would probably cut down on the noise considerably if they were encouraged to find somewhere to edit which was not a CTOP subject and if they were encouraged to leave TNR alone. Simonm223 (talk) 18:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Eronymous

    Similar to Relm I check on the Yasuke page every so often, and it seems very likely given the evidence that User:Ethiopian Epic is an alt of User:Symphony_Regalia created to evade his recent ArbCom sanctions, having started editing the day prior to the Yasuke case closure. Of note to this is the last edit of Symphony_Regalia on Samurai was him attempting to insert the line "who served as retainers to lords (including daimyo)" - curiously enough, Ethiopian Epic's first edit on Samurai (and first large edit, having just prior made 11 minor ones in a short timeframe to reach autoconfirmed status) is him attempting to insert the same controversial line that was reverted before.

    Symphony_Regalia has a history of utilising socks to edit Yasuke/Samurai related topics and is indefinitely blocked from the .jp wiki for extensive sockpuppetry (plus multiple suspected IPs) for this.

    Prior to being sanctioned Symphony Regalia frequently got into exactly the same arguments concerning wording/source material with User:Tinynanorobots that Ethiopian Epic is now. One could assume based on their relationship that he is aggrieved that Tinynanorobots was not sanctioned by ArbCom during the case and is now continuously feuding with him to change that through edit warring and multiple administrator incidents/arbitration requests in the past few weeks. Eronymous (talk) 22:31, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Nil Einne

    I was ?one of the editors who suggested Tinynanorobots consider ARE in the future. I did this mostly because after three threads on ANI with no result, I felt a change of venue might be more productive especially since the more structured nature of ARE, as well as a likely greater concern over low level of misconduct meant that some outcome was more likely. (For clarity, when I suggested this I did feel nothing would happen from the third ANI thread but in any case my advice being taken onboard would likely mean the third thread had no result.) I did try to make clear that I wasn't saying there was definitely a problem requiring sanction and also it was possible Tinynanorobots might themselves end up sanctioned. Since a topic ban on both is being considered, I might have been right in a way. If a topic ban results, I'd like to suggest admins considered some guidance beyond broadly constructed on how any topic ban would apply. While the entirety of the Yasuke article and the list of foreign born samurai stuff seem clear enough, one concern I've had at ANI is how to handle the editing at Samurai and its talk page. A lot of the recent stuff involving these editors seems to relate to the definition of samurai. AFAIK, this is generally been a big part of the dispute of Yasuke (he can/can't be a samurai because it means A which was/wasn't true about him). Nil Einne (talk) 12:42, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

    Result concerning Ethiopian Epic

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I've never been very impressed with retaliatory filings, and the one below is no exception. I will also note that I'm never too impressed with "must be a sock" type accusations—either file at SPI or don't. In this case, though, I think Yasuke would be better off if neither of these two were participating there. Seraphimblade 19:33, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
      Red-tailed hawk, what are your thoughts after the responses to you? Seraphimblade 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
      I think that it would be declined if it were an WP:SPI report and the editor should be mindful not to throw sock accusations around willy-nilly going forward. But I typically don't see any sort of sanction imposed when someone makes a bad SPI report, particularly if they're newer or aren't quite clueful yet. So I don't see much to do on that front other than tell them that we need more specific evidence of socking when reports are made than merely shared interest, particularly when the IPs are scattered across the world. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
      I'm still inclined to topic ban both these editors from Yasuke, but would be interested in hearing more thoughts on that if anyone has them. Seraphimblade 07:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I also generally don't like "might-be-a-sock"-style accusations; when we are accusing someone of sockpuppetry by logged out editing we typically need evidence to substantiate it rather than just floating the possibility in a flimsy way. Filer has provided several diffs above as possible socks, but each of those IPs geolocates to a different country (Germany, Norway, and Argentina respectively) and I don't see evidence that any of those IPs are proxies.@Tinynanorobots: Can you explain what led you to note the IP edits? Is it merely shared interest and viewpoint, or is there something more?— Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:01, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Looking at this .... mess... first, I'm not sure what actually was against the ArbCom decision - I don't see a 1RR violation being alleged, and the rest really appears to me to be "throw stuff at the wall and see if it sticks". But, like Seraphimblade, I'm not impressed with either of these editors actual conduct here or in general. I could be brought around to supporting a topic ban for both of these editors in the interests of clearing up the whole topic area. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:33, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
      • @Ealdgyth: I'm concerned that EthiopianEpic is gaming 1RR/slow edit-warring – for the past few days, they've been waiting until just over 24 hours have passed since their last revert on Yasuke in order to make another one that restores their preferred POV, citing the same old arguments. See reverts on December 26, 27, and 28. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 17:21, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
        I agree that's gaming 1RR. I'm tempted to block as an individual action at this point, separate from the AE complaint. @Ethiopian Epic, please before editing again explain why you are continuing to edit war while there's an AE case open? Valereee (talk) 17:50, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
        I'm good with a topic ban from the subject area for EE - for the gaming when their conduct is being scrutinized for edit warring. I'll reply below about Tiny ... (sorry for the delay, hubby is home so I have spouse-aggro (in gaming terms)) Ealdgyth (talk) 16:19, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Tinynanorobots: you are well above the 500 word limit. Please request an extension before adding anything more. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I enacted the rough consensus to topic ban --Guerillero 19:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

    Tinynanorobots

    Topic banned from Yasuke --Guerillero 19:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Tinynanorobots

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    EEpic (talk) 19:14, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Tinynanorobots (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 09:21, 14 November 2024. Tinynanorobots removes As a samurai from the lead text and replaces it with signifying bushi status against RFC consensus (There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification).
    2. 17:12, 15 November 2024. Tinynanorobots removes who served as a samurai from the lead text and adds who became a bushi or samurai against RFC consensus (There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate).
    3. 12:43, 20 November 2024. On List of Foreign-born Samurai, Tinynanorobots removes the longstanding definition and adds This list includes persons who ... may not have been considered a samurai against RFC consensus (There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate).
    4. 07:48, 23 November 2024. Tinynanorobots reverts to remove As a samurai in the Yasuke article after Gitz6666 opposes at , again ignoring WP:ONUS.
    5. 03:13, 4 December 2024. I restore and start a talk page discussion so that consensus can be formed.
    6. 14:10, 6 December 2024 . Tinynanorobots, when consensus fails to form for his position, becomes uncivil and engages in a sarcastic personal attack What you are saying doesn't make sense. Perhaps there is a language issue here. Maybe your native language handles the future differently than English?
    7. 14:22, 11 December 2024. Tinynanorobots removes "As a samurai" again, ignoring WP:ONUS and BRD even though no consensus has formed for his position, and no consensus has formed to change existing consensus.
    8. 08:37, 6 December 2024. Tinynanorobots explains their reasons, I don't know if samurai is the right term which is against consensus.
    9. 07:27, 28 November 2024. POV-pushing - With no edit summary Tinynanorobots tag bombs by adding Slavery in Japan.
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. Date Explanation
    2. Date Explanation
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Tinynanorobots frequently edits against consensus, restores his edits when others revert, doesn't wait for consensus, and engages in feuding behavior. He seems to think WP:BRD or WP:ONUS don't apply to him which is disruptive, and I don't know why.

    Unaccounted removals of sources 23:44, 14 September 2024 - Warning from other editor about repeated removal of content when multiple users are objecting.

    AGF 12:21, 15 September 2024 - Warning from yet another editor about not assuming good faith and making personal attacks.

    It seems to be chronic which suggests behavior problems. Tinynanorobots frequently fails to assume good faith in others. I don't know why as I don't have any issues with him.

    Their preferred edit for Yasuke against the RFC consensus is now still in the lead section.

    @Relm Sorry for the confusion. I think we talking about different edits, so I'll adjust that part. I am referring to Tinynanorobot's repeated removal of As a samurai against RFC consensus, which states There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification.

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    18:40, 12 December 2024

    Discussion concerning Tinynanorobots

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Tinynanorobots

    The accusations made by EE are so misleading as to be evidence against him. Most of what he is discussing is in reference to a successful BRD. I actually discussed the bold edit first on the talk, but didn't get much of a response. I decided a bold edit would get more feedback. The edits were reverted and then discussed. Gitz's main problem was OR, not a RfC violation. This was because he didn't read the cited source. Anyway, since Atkin says "signifying bushi status", I have no objection to restoring this text.

    I never used any sarcasm, I know that some languages handle how they talk about time differently. It seems reasonable that a translation error could be the reason for EE asking me not to change the article, althoug my edit had already been restored by someone else and at the same time asking me to discuss that I had already discussed and was already discussing. I am disappointed that EE didn't point out that he felt attacked, so that I could apologize.

    This was written in response to another user, and the whole thought is I don't know if samurai is the right term. It is the term a fair amount of sources use, and the one that the RfC says should be used. It is also consistent with common usage in reference to other historical figures. In fact earlier in that post I said this: I am not qualified to say whither or not Yasuke having a house meant that he was a samurai This is blatantly taking a quote out of context in order to prejudice the Admins against me.

    @User:Ealdgyth I filed here, because the last time I filed at ANI it was suggested that I bring things here if things continue by an Admin. I try to follow advice, although I keep getting conflicting signals from Admins. I am most concerned that you find my work on Samurai and List of Foreign-born Samurai in Japan not adding anything helpful. My suggestion to rewrite the way samurai was defined on the List in order to reduce OR and bring it in line with WP:LSC was meant with unanimous approval by those who responded. Samurai is a high importance article that has tags on it from years back, is unorganized and contains outdated information. I am not the best writer, but I have gotten some books, and am pretty much the only one working on it.
    I just thought that the Admins here should know about the ongoing SPI

    @theleekycauldron Thank you for giving a reason, I think there is a misunderstanding though.

    On Nov 14th I removed as a samurai and added signifying bushi status which better matched the sources. Also, not every samurai received a house or sword. Especially receieving a house is an important indicator of Yasuke's rank.
    On Nov 15th it was removed by Blockhaj On the same day Gitz posted on the talk However, I agree with this revert of Tinynanorobots's edit: sources say that the gift signifies samurai status (e.g., Lockley: "bestowing of warrior or “samurai” rank"); "bushi status" is an original research.
    On Nov 16th it was restored by Gitz
    On Nov 17th I explained that "bushi status was in the source, and therefore not OR. Gitz agreed writing Anyway, since Atkin says "signifying bushi status", I have no objection to restoring this text, although I suggest that "indicating warrior status" or "marking membership in the warrior class" would be easier to understand.
    On Nov 20th I changed it to "signifying samurai status"
    On Nov 29th EE reverted with the edit summary Corrections and fixes
    On Nov 30th I revert EE with the edit summary Reverts aren't explained and includes cited material and material that was discussed on the talk page. Please discuss on Talk page On the same day EE did a partial revert citing ONUS
    On Dec 1st User:City of Silver reverted EE saying when ee somehow avoided a well-earned block last time, it was *extremely*, *incredibly* obvious that sooner or later, they'd edit up attacking this exact article in this exact way, i.e., contentiously reverting an editor they're following around and badgering that editor to discuss while not doing so themself. they're really not getting the point
    On Dec 2nd EE started a new discussion on the topic EE begins by saying {{1. This edit was done without consensus. It looks like it was reverted by @Gitz6666 here, but it was silently restored here without any discussion.}} but also says can you follow WP:ONUS and seek consensus for these edits before re-adding them? Thank you. The second part is confusing, because at the time this was written, both of those edits were current. He was asking me not to re-add something that was re added by someone else and not yet removed. He has given the section the same title as the section where Gitz and I had our discussion. On the same day, I replied linking to my discussion with Gitz, pointing out that he had withdrawn his objection. EE responded saying I see thank you, however I checked the archives and the previous discussions says ""There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification"", and ""There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate"". So I think using "signifying samurai status" or "indicating status status" would be less in line with that consensus compared to the status quo text of "as a samurai". In light of that I would suggest getting consensus before adding this change. This confused me. He redirects my mention of my discussion with Gitz, into a discussion of the RfC, which he pretends he just discovered in the archive, and asks me again not to add something which is currently in the article to the article without discussing it, after I told him I did discuss it, and am trying to discuss it with him.
    This is when I wrote I am troubled that you keep implying that I haven't discussed these things on the talk before. I also believe you do not understand how consensus works. When someone makes a change, that is the consensus until someone challenges it. You are wanting to change the status quo. In this case I am using status quo to mean "the existing state of affairs" It was the current state of the article. It seemed that EE was both chatising me for making a change without discussion (the past) and asking me not to make that change (the future), but overlooking that I didn't need to make the change, and that I was trying to discuss with him(the present). It was all very confusing.
    On Dec 9th a few users made some edits that really went against consensus. EE reverted these edits, but also removed the edits that City of Silver had restored.
    After that I never restored "signifying samurai status". Unless I missed something, I only restored it once.
    The full line is He was granted a sword, a house and a stipend, indicating samurai status and I don't see how it can be against the RfC, the RfC says explicitly There exists no consensus on the inclusion of the following sentence, or similar, in the lead section of the article. "Historians believe this was the equivalent to "the bestowing of warrior or 'samurai' rank" during this period." The quote is from one of the sources, and my version should be less controversial considering the objections to including the quote. The quote is not only in the body, but also in a footnote in the lead.
    EE is the only person who beleives that it goes against the RfC, except for an IP It has been added by other users, and others have explictly said it doesn't go against RfC on both Talk:Yasuke and here.

    Tinynanorobots (talk) 15:07, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Relm

    I am the editor alluded to and quoted as 'protesting' Tinynanorobots edit. When I originally made that topic, I was fixing a different edit which left the first sentence as a grammatically incomplete sentence. When I looked at it in the editing view, one of the quotes in the citation beforehand was quoting Atkins Vera, and I mistook this for the opening quote having been changed. When I closed the editing menu I saw 'signifying samurai status' in the second paragraph and confused the two for each other as I had not noticed the addition of the latter phrase a little under a month ago. I realized my mistake almost immediately after I posted the new topic, and made this (1) edit to clarify my mistake while also attempting to instead direct the topic towards making sure that the edit recieved sufficient assent from Gitz (it did) and to talk about improvements that could be made to the opening sentence. I further clarified and made clear that I was not accusing Tinynanorobots of having done anything wrong in a later response (2).

    Though many of their earlier edits on the page may show some issues, as they grew more familiar with the past discussions I believe that Tinynanorobots has made valuable contributions to the page in good faith. Relm (talk) 03:21, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Barkeep49


    Statement by Gitz6666

    I don't see anything wrong either with Tinynanorobots's recent edits to Yasuke and related articles or those of Ethiopian Epic. The only troubling aspect is their difficulty in finding an agreement on relatively irrelevant issues or minutiae such as "As a samurai" vs "Signifying samurai status", which are not covered by the RfC consensus and are also difficult to understand. They shouldn't bring this stuff to AE and they'd better come to an agreement otherwise they risk being tbanned, which in my opinion would be a pity. Disengage disengage disengage, and move to more productive editing! Gitz (talk) (contribs) 22:39, 28 December 2024 (UTC)


    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Tinynanorobots

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • As above, I'm failing to see what exactly is against the ArbCom case rulings - I don't see a 1RR violation. But also as above, I'm coming to the view that neither of these editors are adding anything helpful to the topic area and am leaning towards a topic ban for both. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:35, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
      I tend to agree. The edits EE highlights are troubling, especially TNR's view that they can repeatedly make edits an RfC has already ruled out (1, revert, 2) because When someone makes a change, that is the consensus until someone challenges it. You are wanting to change the status quo. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 00:20, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
      That's been my position, and I've thus far seen no reason to change it. I would support topic banning both EE and Tinynanorobots from the Yasuke subject. Seraphimblade 00:32, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
      I concur. Topic banning both would hopefully help them learn to collaborate by editing somewhere where they are not so invested so that they can learn how to collaborately edit. Ealdgyth (talk) 16:21, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Unless an uninvolved admin objects within the next seven days or so, I will close as above (TBAN on Tinynanorobots and EthiopianEpic from Yasuke). Seraphimblade 20:05, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I enacted the rough consensus --Guerillero 19:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

    Rasteem

    There does not seem to be an appetite to act here. Any admin can chat with Rasteem about any competence concerns in their personal capacity --Guerillero 20:00, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Rasteem

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    NXcrypto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Rasteem (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBIPA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 23:21 12 December 2024 - removed wikilink of an Indian railway station thus violating his topic ban from India and Pakistan.

    This violation comes after he was already warned for his first violation of the topic ban.

    Upon a closer look into his recent contribution, I found that he is simply WP:GAMING the system by creating articles like Arjan Lake which is overall only 5,400 bytes but he made nearly 50 edits here. This is clearly being done by Rasteem for passing the 500 edits mark to get his topic ban overturned.

    I recommend increasing the topic ban to indefinite duration. Nxcrypto Message 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    "topic banned from the subject of India and Pakistan, broadly construed, until both six months have elapsed and they have made 500 edits after being notified of this sanction."
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    • I agree that there are genuine CIR issues with Rasteem, for example while this ARE report is in progress they created Javan Lake, which has promotional statements like: "The lake's stunning caluts, majestic desert topographies, and serene lakes produce a shifting destination. Its unique charm attracts a wide range of guests, from adventure contenders to nature suckers and beyond". Nxcrypto Message 03:26, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Theleekycauldron: I hope you will review the complaint again. As Femke and Cullen328 puts, the issue is not only with the topic ban violations (for which he was already warned by Seraphimblade) but also the basic competence issues that include his grasp of English language. Rasteem's own response to this complaint that "a coordinated attack to abandon me from Misplaced Pages indefinitely" itself showcases his battleground mentality. I believe that the existing six-month topic ban should be increased to an indefinite period. Nxcrypto Message 03:37, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning Rasteem

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Rasteem

    This approach seems to be a coordinated attack to abandon me from Misplaced Pages indefinitely. Indeed, after my ban for 6 months. I was banned on 6 December, and in just 7 days, this report is literally an attempt to make me leave Misplaced Pages.

    1. I rolled back my own edit; it was last time made unintentionally. I was about to revert it, but my internet connection was lost, so when I logged in again, I regressed it.

    The internet is constantly slow and sometimes goes down. I live in a hilly location and I had formerly mentioned it.

    My edits on Arjan Lake isn't any WP:GAMING factual number of edits I made; it is 45, not 50. Indeed, I made similar edits before in September and December months on the same articles within a single day or 2-3 days.

    2. List of villages in Khoda Afarin on this article, I've added 5680 bytes & made 43 edits.

    3. List of villages in Tabriz on this article I've added 4000 bytes & made 49 edits.

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Rasteem

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • While I don't see a change in editing pattern that indicates gaming, the edits to Arjan Lake indicate issues with competence, as the article is weirdly promotional and contains phrases such as "beast species", "emotional 263 proved species". —Femke 🐦 (talk) 20:57, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Adding to Femke's point, magnific 70- cadence-high waterfalls in this area is not prose that inspires confidence in the editor's competence to edit the English Misplaced Pages. So, we have violations of a topic ban and questions about the editor's linguistic competence and performance. Perhaps an indefinite block appealable in six months with a recommendation to build English competency by editing the Simple English Misplaced Pages, and to build general Misplaced Pages skills by editing in the version of Misplaced Pages in the language they speak best during that minimum six month period. As for Arjan Lake, although the prose is poor, the references in the article make it clear to me that the topic is notable, so the editor deserves some credit for starting this article that did not exist for two decades plus. Cullen328 (talk) 08:57, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Brief comment to avoid the archive bot. Seraphimblade 17:46, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I don't see any appetite to do anything about the CTOP violations here. Someone should probably write up an individual admin's warning about the two articles and the prose/sourcing problems, but I don't see anything here AE can action. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 22:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
      @NXcrypto: Yeah, I read your statement. They were doing gnome edits and they made one to a dab page, removing a redlink to a place that happened to be in India and related in no other way to the conduct that got them sanctioned. I'm not obligated as an administrator to enforce the rules strictly. I oppose lengthening the topic ban. Both Cullen and Femke expressed competence concerns that I share, but those are outside the scope of AE as they don't involve any contentious topics or other ArbCom rulings. If one of them indeffed, I wouldn't object, but maybe someone wants to try explaining to them how their articles could be better first before we hit the indef button? theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 05:36, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

    KronosAlight

    KronosAlight is topic-banned from the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly construed. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:56, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning KronosAlight

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Butterscotch Beluga (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    KronosAlight (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4#ARBPIA General Sanctions
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 14 December 2024
    • Adds "depiste being an ex-Muslim" to dismiss accusations of Islamophobia MOS:EDITORIAL.
    • Adds MOS:SCAREQUOTES around ‘promoted Islamophobia’ & ‘Islamophobia’ while removing the supporting context.
    • Changed "interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence" to "claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred" MOS:CLAIM & MOS:EDITORIAL
    1. 14 December 2024 - MOS:TERRORIST
    1. 14 December 2024 - MOS:TERRORIST
    2. 14 December 2024 - MOS:TERRORIST
    • Unnecessarily specific additions that may constitute WP:POVPUSH such as adding "against civilians" & changing "prevent the assassinations of many Israelis" to "prevent the assassinations of many Israeli civilians and soldiers"
    1. 14 December 2024 - MOS:TERRORIST
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. 24 June 2024 Warned to abide by the one-revert rule when making edits within the scope of the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area.
    2. 22 October 2024 Blocked from editing for 1 week for violating consensus required on the page Zionism
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    All edits were made at Mosab Hassan Yousef. After I partially reverted their edits with an explanation, I brought the issue to their attention on the talk page, asking for their rationale. They replied that they were "correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors" & asked if I "perhaps have a deeper bias that’s influencing decisions in this respect?"

    They then undid my partial revert

    Ealdgyth - While I can't find any comments where they were explicitly "warned for casting aspersions", they were asked back in June to WP:AGF in the topic area.
    Also, apologies for my "diffs of edits that violate this sanction" section, this is the first time I've filed a request here & I thought it'd be best to explain the preamble to my revert, but I understand now that I misunderstood the purpose of that section & will remember such for the future. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 15:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
    @Vanamonde93 I was able to find a copy of the opinion article being cited 'They Need to Be Liberated From Their God'. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 20:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning KronosAlight

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by KronosAlight

    This is a complete waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time.

    1. That Yousef was born and raised a Muslim is important and neutral context for readers to be aware of when the article refers to claims of ‘Islamophobia’.

    2. The scarequotes indicate that the claim comes from the sources provided, rather than being an objective ‘fact’ determined by a few Misplaced Pages Editors with an axe to grind.

    3. This was already addressed on the Talk page and I updated the sentence to say settlers/soldiers with a further label that it needed further clarification because the source does not in fact unambiguously say what Butterscotch Beluga claims.

    A few lines above what Butterscotch Beluga quotes is the following lines: “AMANPOUR: How did you take part in that? Were you one of the small children who threw rocks at Israeli soldiers?

    YOUSEF: The model for every Palestinian child is a mujahid (ph) or a fidahi (ph) or a fighter. So, of course, I wanted to be one at that point of my life. It wasn't -- it's not my only dream. It's every child's dream in that territory.”

    The updated Wiki page noted both settlers/soldiers and included a note that this requires further clarification, perhaps based on other sources, because it isn’t clear (contra Butterscotch Beluga) whether he is referring to soldiers or settlers.

    4. It is not controversial to accurately describe Hamas as a terrorist organisation. It is simply a fact. To suggest otherwise is POV-pushing.

    5. This is not POVPUSH; ‘assassinations’ against civilians during peacetime are usually called ‘murders’.

    I in fact didn’t even remove the word ‘assassinations’, I merely broadened the description from ‘Israelis’ to ‘Israeli civilians and soldiers’ (as Butterscotch accepted) to indicate the breadth of the individuals in question included both civilians and combatants. This is not POVPUSH, it is simply additional information and context verified in the source itself.

    All in all, a vexatious claim and a waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time.

    Statement by Sean.hoyland

    Regarding "I was correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors", it would be helpful if KronosAlight would explicitly identify the antisemitic editors and the edits they corrected so that they can be blocked for being antisemitic editors. Sean.hoyland (talk) 08:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

    The editor has been here since 2012. It is reasonable to assume that they know the rules regarding aspersions. It is reasonable to assume they are intentionally violating them, presumably because they genuinely believe they are dealing with antisemitic editors. So, this report is somehow simultaneously a vexatious complete waste of time and the result of the someone interfering with their valiant efforts to correct errors made by antisemitic editors. Why do they have this belief? This is probably a clue, a comment they had the good sense to revert. For me, this is an example of someone attempting to use propaganda that resembles antisemitic conspiracy theories about media control to undermine Misplaced Pages's processes and then changing their mind. But the very fact that they thought of it is disturbing. Their revert suggests that they are probably aware that there are things you can say about an editor and things you cannot say about an editor. From my perspective, what we have here is part of an emerging pattern in the topic area, a growing number of attacks on Misplaced Pages and editors with accusations of antisemitism, cabals etc. stemming in part from external partisan sources/influence operations. Sean.hoyland (talk) 17:35, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Zero0000

    Aspersions:

    Zero 10:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Vice regent

    KronosAlight, you changed on 14 Dec 2024: "An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence" to "An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred".

    Can you show where either of the sources state "though no threats or violence in fact occurred"? VR (Please ping on reply) 18:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Smallangryplanet

    Wanted to add some pertinent evidence:

    Talk:Zionism:

    Talk:Allegations of genocide in the 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon:

    Talk:Relations between Nazi Germany and the Arab world:

    Talk:2024 Lebanon electronic device attacks:

    Talk:Anti-Zionism:

    Talk:Gaza genocide:

    Talk:Nuseirat rescue and massacre:

    Talk:Al-Sardi school attack:

    Talk:Eden Golan:

    Other sanctions:

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning KronosAlight

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Much of the "diffs of edits that violate this sanction" fail to explain "how these edits violate" the sanction - to me, much of these diffs look like a content dispute. However, the "additional comments" section DOES have a diff that is concerning and violates the CT by casting an aspersion that is not backed up by a diff - the "antisemitic editors" diff. Has KA been previously warned for casting aspersions? If they have, I'm inclined to issue a topic ban, but many other editors get a warning for this if they lack a previous warning. The diffs brought up by Zero (not all of which I necessarily see as aspersions, but the "Jew-hatred" one is definitely over the line - but it's from September so a bit late to sanction for just that) - did anyone point out that aspersions/incivility in this topic area is sanctionable? I see the warnings for 1RR and consensus required... Ealdgyth (talk) 13:30, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
      • @KronosAlight: - can you address the fact that saying "correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors" and "Is there no limits you will not cross in order to seek to justify your Jew-hatred"? Neither of these are statements that should ever be made - and the fact that you seem to not to understand this is making me lean towards a topic ban. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
    • KronosAlight, can you please provide quotes from the references you cited for - for instance - "for his terrorist activities" in this addition, showing that the sources explicitly supported the content you added? Calling a person or an organization is perfectly acceptable if you support that with reliable sources; if it is original research, or source misrepresentation, it isn't acceptable. I cannot access some of the sources in question. You may provide quotes inside a collapsed section if you wish to save space. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
      I missed Zero's comments earlier. A lot of those comments, while concerning, are generic, not directed at a specific editor. this, however, is beyond the pale. I would need some convincing that this user is able to edit this area constructively. Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:56, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
      @KronosAlight, can you please respond to this? I too am concerned...the quote you're objecting to wasn't from DrSmarty. It was a direct quote, scare quotes and all, from the US Holocaust Memorial Museum. You seem to have reacted to it as if it were DrSmarty. Valereee (talk) 16:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I don't like to sanction in absentia, and I'm not yet suggesting we do so, but I want to note that not choosing not to respond here, or going inactive to avoid responding, will not improve the outcome as far as I am concerned. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:20, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
      They're a pretty sporadic editor...many edits over a period of a few days, then nothing for two weeks. Maybe we pin this until they edit again? Valereee (talk) 17:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
      I agree with Valereee that this editors contribution history shows a pattern of editing for a day or two at a time followed by several weeks of inactivity. So I don't think it's fair to say they went inactive here but also holding this open for multiple weeks waiting for a response places some burden on the other other interested editors. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
      Welp, it's been nearly ten days since they first posted here, calling this a waste of time and vexatious. They're fully aware it's happening, and it's not even like they haven't been to AE before.
      I've gone through the diffs here, and it seems to me the basis of KA's problematic editing is that they're on a mission to WP:right great wrongs, specifically w/re what they see as antisemitic bias on WP. The exchange at Talk:Algeria a few weeks ago makes that pretty clear: they come into Algeria and open a section to post a content complaint about the article not covering changing Jewish demographics in the country, saying "Many people have edited it, but apparently not one has seen fit to explain" this. Another editor suggests KA fix whatever problem they're seeing, and KA responds: I made that comment to highlight the obvious problem of antisemitism among Misplaced Pages editors. The question was rhetorical. And many of their other talk contributions are focussed on these accusations of systemic bias.
      And @KronosAlight, in case you're paying attention: of course WP has systemic bias. It's usually unintentional, but in most CTOPs there are editors who consciously try to push a POV. The solution for that isn't to go 'round making accusations. It's to go 'round fixing the problem either by adding missing content or by discussing biased content in nonproblematic ways. It's the "nonproblematic ways" part you're missing, here. And if you are paying attention: You cannot make an AE case go away by ignoring it. I very strongly recommend you come in here and respond to the questions. Valereee (talk) 13:40, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I propose closing this with an indefinite topic ban in a day or two, unless KA decides to respond. I think KA needs to be aware that they have fallen short of the required standards of behavior no matter the topic, and similar incivility elsewhere will quite likely result in an indefinite block. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:55, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
      Support. Valereee (talk) 18:05, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
      Been watching this thread from afar, but it looks like a civil POV-pushing case to me and I support as well. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 18:54, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
      I don't know about that. I haven't determined if their edits were supported by sources or not - so I don't know if this is POV-pushing - but it looks pretty uncivil to me. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:35, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
      Oh, that's fair on the civility :) I was mostly looking at the mainspace edits. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 17:40, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Nicoljaus

    Appeal declined --Guerillero 19:56, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    Procedural notes: Per the rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

    To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

    Appealing user
    Nicoljaus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:09, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    Sanction being appealed
    To enforce an arbitration decision, and for edit warring, and intent to game 1rr, you have been blocked indefinitely from editing Misplaced Pages.
    Administrator imposing the sanction
    ScottishFinnishRadish (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
    Notification of that administrator
    I'm aware. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Nicoljaus

    The circumstances of my blocking were:

    • I was looking for a Misplaced Pages account for Hiba Abu Nada to add it to Wikidata. I couldn't find it, so I did a little research. The reference in the article indicated that she participated in some WikiWrites(?) project. I didn’t find such a project, but I found the WikiRights project: https://ar.wikipedia.org/ويكيبيديا:ويكي_رايتس. It was organized by a certain Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor. I read the Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor article and didn't see any outside perspective, "controversy" or anything like that, just self-representation. I surfed the Internet and instantly found information that must be in the article to comply with the NPOV. I started adding , everything went well for two days. Then:
    • 12:53, 23 April 2024 - Zero0000 made a complete cancellation of all additions
    • 13:14, 23 April 2024 - (20 minutes later!) Selfstudier wrote on my TP
    • 14:20 - 14:22, 23 April 2024 -‎ With two edits (first, second) I partially took into account the comment of Zero0000 about "ethnic marking", but returned the last .
    • 14:27, 23 April 2024 (7 minutes later!!) Selfstudier makes a second complete cancellation of all my edits, blaming POV editing
    • 14:45, 23 April 2024‎ - I’m returning the version where I partially took into account Zero0000’s comments (removed "ethnic marking")
    • 15:10, 23 April 2024 - Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit User talk:Nicoljaus#1RR_breach
    • 15:41, 23 April 2024 Selfstudier writes on Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement
    • 16:10, 23 April 2024 (30 minutes later!) ScottishFinnishRadish issues an indefinite block . No opportunity to write my “statement”, as well as an extremely bad faith interpretation of my remark as "an intent to game 1rr".

    Given that the both Selfstudier and Zero0000 are currently being discussed in Arbcom (https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5/Evidence), I humbly ask you to take a fresh look at my indefinite block and soften the restrictions in some way". Nicoljaus (talk) 19:32, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

    @ScottishFinnishRadish: - You mean, I need to discuss my previous edit war blocks? Well, the last one was almost four years ago and that time I simply forgot that I was under 1RR (there was a big break in editing) and tried to get sources for a newly added map, and the opponent refused to do so . As it turned out later, the true source was a book by a fringe author, which the RSN called "Usual nationalistic bullshit, no sign of reliability". Yes, it was a stupid forgetfulness on my part. Nicoljaus (talk) 16:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    @Aquillion: Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were WP:TAGTEAMing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them) -- That's why I wrote that my "so problematic edits" attracted attention only after two days, but two users appeared within 20 minutes. However, after months, a lot of data about the cooperation of these users appeared (and this is not my imagination): "While a single editor, Shane (a newbie), advocated for its inclusion, a trio of veterans including Zero0000, Nishidani and Selfstudier fought back. After Selfstudier accused Shane of being a troll for arguing for the photo’s inclusion, Zero0000, days later, “objected” to its inclusion, citing issues of provenance. Nishidani stepped in to back up Zero0000, prompting a response by Shane. The following day, Zero0000 pushed back against Shane, who responded. The day after, Nishidani returned with his own pushback. The tag-team effort proved too much for Shane, who simply gave up, and the effort succeeded: the photo remains absent" . I'll add that after Selfstudier accused Shane of trolling, Zero0000 appeared on Shane's page and said: "Kindly keep your insults to yourself I won't hesitate to propose you for blocking if you keep it up" . According to the table at the link , these two users cooperated like this 720 times. Probably hundreds of people were embittered, forced out of the project, or led to blocking like me.--Nicoljaus (talk) 13:02, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    @ScottishFinnishRadish: Hello, thank you very much for transferring my remarks, now I understand how it works. I would like to clarify the issue of meatpuppetry. You directly accused me of such intentions in justifying the block, and now this accusation has been repeated . Let's figure out whether my hint that Selfstudier and Zero0000 are working too closely was so absurd? Was it really and remains so absurd that it could not be perceived as anything other than my self-exposure? I don't think so.

    As for the "edit war" - I understand that edit wars are evil. In the spirit of cooperation, I tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit. If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule - I will of course avoid it in the future.--Nicoljaus (talk) 16:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

    @Valereee: Hello, I understand your point that edit wars can be disruptive, particularly in a CTOP context. However, I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting. Furthermore, I acknowledge your reference to the 1RR/3RR rule and my history of blocks for edit-warring. However, given the amount of time that has passed, I believe I have gained valuable insights and learned a great deal. Moreover, given this topic, I think I actually learned something unlike the other side, whose history of blocks for edit-warring remains clean.--Nicoljaus (talk) 4:24 am, Today (UTC−5)

    @Valereee: In response to this, I can say that I already know very well how carelessly admins impose blocks. If any further statements are needed from me, just ping me. With best regards.--Nicoljaus (talk) 09:51, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish

    Absent from the appeal is discussion of the five prior edit warring blocks and any indication that they will not resume edit warring. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    I said They have a long history of edit warring, so I'd like to see that addressed rather than blaming others above, twelve days ago. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    Nicoljaus, you should be focusing on convincing people that you won't edit war in the future rather than more WP:NOTTHEM. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:11, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by (involved editor 1)

    Statement by (involved editor 2)

    Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Nicoljaus

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Simonm223

    This edit looks like a bright-line WP:BLP violation via WP:ATTACK and WP:WEASEL - and removing BLP violations are generally somewhere where there is some latitude on WP:1RR which makes the actions of Zero0000 and Selfstudier more justified, not less. Simonm223 (talk) 13:50, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Aquillion

    Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit - I feel like this is obvious enough that I probably don't have to point it out, but "counter edit" is not a WP:3RR / WP:1RR exception. Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were WP:TAGTEAMing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them), it still would not justify your revert. The fact that they're parties to an ArbCom case (which hasn't even yet found any fault with them!) doesn't change any of this. You should probably read WP:NOTTHEM. --Aquillion (talk) 14:15, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Sean.hoyland

    "the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination"...yet another conspiracy-minded evidence-free accusation against editors in the PIA topic area, the third one at AE in just a few days. Sean.hoyland (talk) 14:59, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)

    Result of the appeal by Nicoljaus

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I do not see any indication that Nicoljaus actually realizes the problem. The edit warring blocks were indeed some time ago, but one might think they would remember it after being blocked for it repeatedly, not to mention that being issued a CTOP notice might call a CTOP restriction to mind. And the remark in question sure looks to me like a threat to game 1RR via meatpuppetry, too. Given all that, I would decline this appeal. Seraphimblade 23:10, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I see nothing in this appeal that makes me think they've taken on board the changes that they'd need to do to be a productive editor. It reads to me like "my block was bad, here's why", and that's not working as a reason for me to support unblocking. Ealdgyth (talk) 23:21, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Nicoljaus, what we need to see is you demonstrating you understand edit-warring at a CTOP, which is what you were blocked for, and convincing us you won't do it again. Arguing the block should be lifted because other editors did something you thought looked suspicious isn't going to convince us. Just FWIW, Nicoljaus, the source doesn't actually say these two users cooperated like this 720 times. It says they edited the same articles 720 times, and that's not unusual. Most editors see the same other editors over and over again in articles about their primary interest. And edit by editor 1>2 days>revert by editor 2>revert by editor 1>20 minutes>revert by editor 3 is also not at all unusual anywhere on the encyclopedia and isn't evidence of tag-teaming. People read their watch lists. Any editor with that article on their watchlist, which is nearly fifty editors, might have investigated the large revert of an edit by an experienced editor at a contentious topic. Valereee (talk) 15:18, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
      @Nicoljaus, it's not that edit wars are evil. It's that they're disruptive, and particularly in a CTOP we really really don't need additional disruption and drama. A revert is a revert, even if you tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit. Re: If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule: a revert is a revert and is covered in the policy around reversions. And you have a history of blocks for edit-warring, including at other CTOPs.
      It's been seven months since the block. I'm trying to come around to a way to at least allow this editor a chance to show us they've taken this stuff on board...maybe a 0RR at all CTOPs? Valereee (talk) 17:44, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
      @Nicoljaus, re I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting. Some editors at talk pages will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just take you to ANEW. Some admins at ANEW will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just reblock you.
      No one anywhere is promising that your intentions will be taken into account -- or even that they'll try to figure out what your intentions are -- and therefore it's completely your responsibility to read the situation you're in correctly. If you read it wrong, you're likely to be blocked again, and honestly another block for edit-warring at a CTOP is likely to be another indef, and it would absolutely not surprise me for the blocking admin to require 12 months to appeal. Valereee (talk) 15:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      No need to reply, but I'll tell you plainly I've been trying to give you opportunities to convince other admins here, and you keep wanting to dig the hole deeper. I'd support an unblock with an editing restriction of 0RR at any article with a CTOPs designation on the talk page. Valereee (talk) 13:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I would also decline this per Seraphimblade, even if there were to be an unblock I would expect a PIA topic-ban (at the least) to be included. Black Kite (talk) 18:59, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I see a rough consensus, so I am closing the thread --Guerillero 19:56, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

    PerspicazHistorian

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning PerspicazHistorian

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    NXcrypto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    PerspicazHistorian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBIPA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 17:57, 18 December 2024 - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of Hindutva (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead.
    2. 17:59, 18 December 2024 - tag bombed the highly vetted Hindutva article without any discussion or reason
    3. 10:15, 18 December 2024 - attributing castes to people withhout any sources
    4. 12:11, 18 December 2024 - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting reverted
    5. 17:09, 18 December 2024 - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources
    6. 18:29, 18 December 2024 - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation
    7. 14:46, 19 December 2024 (UTC) - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP."
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    • Already 2 blocks in last 4 months for edit warring.
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. Nxcrypto Message 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit here by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to MOS:TERRORIST. Nxcrypto Message 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by PerspicazHistorian

    • By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu Page.

    I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before User: Ratnahastin told me about this: User_talk:PerspicazHistorian. Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.

    • In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to Edit_warring#What_edit_warring_is it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of Misplaced Pages:BOLD,_revert,_discuss_cycle.
    • As a clarification to my edit on Students' Islamic Movement of India, it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this edit. I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong.
    @Valereee, Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in Misplaced Pages:Edit warring#What edit warring is#Other revert rules. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! PerspicazHistorian (talk) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Yes, I will commit to that. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. Seraphimblade 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when Satish R. Devane was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Hi @Doug Weller , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me.
    P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.Valereee (talk) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    • 1) I just asked an user @Fylindfotberserk if the page move is possible. What's wrong with it? I still have not considered putting a move request on talk page of article.
    2) Many of other sources are not raj era. Moreover I myself have deleted the content way before you pointing this out. Thank You ! PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    even @NXcrypto is seen engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics. see1see2 PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:37, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    as mentioned by @Valereee before, Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here. You can discuss content related topics on talk pages of articles rather than personally targeting a user here in enforcement. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    @Valereee I once filed a complaint to find it @NXcrypto is a sock (out of a misunderstanding, as all were teamed up similarly on various pages). I think he felt it as a personal attack by me and filed this request for enforcement. Please interfere. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:47, 29 December 2024 (UTC) moving to correct section Valereee (talk) 13:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    1)Yes I usually edit on RSS related topics, but to ensure a democratic view is maintained as many socks try to disrupt such articles. Even on Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh page, I just edited on request of talk page and added a graph. I don't think its a POV push.
    2) My main interest in editing is Hinduism and Indian History topics.
    3)There have been certain cases in past where I was blocked but if studied carefully they were result of me edit warring with socks(although, through guidance of various experienced editors and admins I learnt a SPI should be filed first). I have learnt a lot in my journey and there have been nearly zero case of me of edit warring this month.
    Please do not block me. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 14:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Valereee I beg apologies for the inconvenience caused, thanks for correcting me. I will now reply in my own statement section. @Bishonen I am a quick learner and professionally competent to edit in this encyclopedic space. Please consider reviewing this enforcement if its an counter-attack on me as mentioned in my previous replies. You all are experienced editors and I have good faith in your decision-making capability.PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Vanamonde93@Bishonen I have edited content marked as "original research" and "mess" by you, I am ready to help removing any content that might be considered "poorly sourced" by the community. Please don't block me.PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Valereee This enforcement started for edit-warring and now I feel its more concerned to my edited content(which I agree to cooperate and change wherever needed). After learning about edit wars, there has been no instance of me edit-warring, Please consider my request.--PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
      @Valereee I am not a slow learner, I understand the concerns of all admins here. I will try my best to add only reliable sources, and discuss content in all talk pages, as I already mentioned here. PPicazHist (talk) 12:55, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
      @Valereee@UtherSRG I think admins should focus more on encouraging editors when they do good and correct when mistaken. I have made many edits, added many citations and created much articles which use fine citations. The enforcement started out of retaliation by nxcrypto, now moving towards banning me anyways. I started editing out of passion, and doing it here on wiki unlike those who come here just for pov pushes and disrupt article space(talking about socks and vandalizers on contentious Indian topics).
      The article prasada doesn't only has issue on citations, but the whole article is copypasted from the citations I added. I just wanted to point that out. Remaining about Misplaced Pages:CIR, I am currently pursuing Btech in cs from IIT delhi, idt I am a slow learner by any means. Still, happy new year to all ! PPicazHist (talk) 14:01, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
      @UtherSRG You mean to say, "The prasada is to be consumed by attendees as a holy offering. The offerings may include cooked food, fruits and confectionery sweets. Vegetarian food is usually offered and later distributed to the devotees who are present in the temple. Sometimes this vegetarian offering will exclude prohibited items such as garlic, onion, mushroom, etc. " is not copy pasted by this website? Is this also a wiki mirror website? How would you feel if I doubt your competence now? PPicazHist (talk) 14:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by LukeEmily

    PerspicazHistorian also violated WP:BRD by engaging in an edit war with Ratnahastin who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.LukeEmily (talk)

    Statement by Doug Weller

    I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and User:Deb's comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving Draft:Satish R. Devane to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. Deb (talk) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. Doug Weller talk 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... Doug Weller talk 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Toddy1

    This is another editor who appears to have pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views. I dislike those views, but find it rather alarming that Misplaced Pages should seek to censor those views, but not the views of the political opponents. Imagine the outrage if we sought to topic-ban anyone who expressed pro-Republican views, but allowed Democrat-activists to say whatever they liked.

    A lot of pro-RSS/BJP editors turn out to be sock-puppets, so please can we do a checkuser on this account. And to be even-handed, why not checkuser NXcrypto too.

    If we want to talk about WP:CIR when editors make mistakes, look at the diff given by NXcrypto for "Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested" - it is the wrong diff. He/she did notify PerspicazHistorian - but the correct diff is .

    A topic ban from Indian topics would be unhelpful, unless given to both parties. Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India. Loading the dice against BJP and RSS editors will turn Misplaced Pages into a fringe encyclopaedia on Indian topics.

    I can see a good case for restricting PerspicazHistorian to draft articles and talk pages for a month, and suggesting that he/she seeks advice from more experienced editors. Another solution would be a one-revert rule to last six months.-- Toddy1 (talk) 13:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Capitals00

    I find the comment from Toddy1 to be entirely outrageous. What are you trying to tell by saying "Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India"? If you want us to entertain those who are in power, then we could never have an article like False or misleading statements by Donald Trump.

    You cannot ask topic ban for both editors without having any evidence of misconduct. Same way, you cannot ask CU on either user only for your own mental relief. It is a high time that you should strike your comment, since you are falsely accusing others that they "seek to censor" this editor due to his "pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views". You should strike your comment. If you cannot do that, then I am sure WP:BOOMERANG is coming for you. Capitals00 (talk) 15:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Vanamonde93

    Toddy1: I, too, am baffled by your comment. We don't ban editors based on their POV; but we do ban editors who fail to follow our PAGs, and we certainly don't make excuses for editors who fail to follow our guidelines based on their POV. You seem to be suggesting we cut PH some slack because of their political position, and I find that deeply inappropriate. Among other things, I don't believe they have publicly stated anywhere that they support the BJP or the RSS, and we cannot make assumptions about them.

    That said, the fact that this was still open prompted me to spot-check PH's contributions, and I find a lot to be concerned about. This edit is from 29 December, and appears to be entirely original research; I cannot access all of the sources, but snippet search does not bear out the content added, and the Raj era source for the first sentence certainly does not support the content it was used for. Baji Pasalkar, entirely authored by PH, is full of puffery ("first to sacrifice his life for the cause of Swarajya", and poor sources (like this blog, and this book, whose blurb I leave you to judge), from which most of the article appears to be drawn. Appa (title), also entirely authored by PH, has original research in its very first sentence; the sources that I can access give passing mention to people whose names include the suffix "appa", and thus could perhaps be examples of usage, but the sources most certainly do not bear out the claim.

    I will note in fairness that I cannot access all the sources for the content I checked. But after spotchecking a dozen examples I have yet to find content PH wrote that was borne out by a reliable source, so I believe skepticism is justified. We are in territory where other editors may need to spend days cleaning up some of this writing. Bishonen If we're in CIR territory, just a normal indefinite block seems cleanest, surely? Or were you hoping that PH would help clean up their mess, perhaps by providing quotes from sources? That could be a pathway to contributing productively, but I'm not holding my breath. Vanamonde93 (talk) 18:00, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Thanks Bish: I agree, as my exchanges with PH today, in response to my first post here, have not inspired confidence. . Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by UtherSRG

    I've mostly dealt with PH around Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Ankur Warikoo (2nd nomination). They do not seem to have the ability to read and understand our policies and processes. As such, a t-ban is too weak. The minimum I would support is a p-block as suggested below, though a full indef is also acceptable. They could then ask for the standard offer when they can demonstrate they no longer have WP:CIR issues. - UtherSRG (talk) 20:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

    Based on these two edits, I'm more strongly leaning towards indef. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:27, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    They now indicate they believe the article they edited was copied from one of the websites they used as a reference, when in reality the website is a mirror/scrape of the Misplaced Pages article. I believe we are firmly in WP:CIR territory here. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    This is a mirror of the Misplaced Pages article. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:29, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

    Result concerning PerspicazHistorian

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

    PerspicazHistorian, can you explain your understanding of WP:edit warring and the WP:3RR rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring even if they aren't breaking 3RR. Valereee (talk) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    @PerspicazHistorian, that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is the first time someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that?
    Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is WP:ORIGINAL RESEARCH; in their revert NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here. Valereee (talk) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    I'm seeing this as a CIR issue. I'd like input from other admins, if possible. I'm a little concerned that setting a tban from IPA is just setting a trap. Maybe a p-block from article space would be a kinder way to allow them to gain some experience? Valereee (talk) 13:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    @PerspicazHistorian, have you seen how many times I or others have had to move your comments to your own section? This is an example of not having enough experience to edit productively. Please do not post in anyone else's section again. Valereee (talk) 16:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    I do agree we're in CIR territory, and the concerns expressed are completely valid. I don't think this editor is ill-intentioned. They just don't seem very motivated to learn quickly. Well-intentioned-but-a-slow-learner is something that can only be fixed by actually practicing what you're bad at. I'd prefer an indef from article space which gives them one more chance to learn here before we send them off to mr.wiki or Simple English to try to learn. Not a hill I'm going to die on, though. Valereee (talk) 11:36, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    @PerspicazHistorian, like Uther I have major concerns about the edit you made yesterday, which included replacing a citation needed tag with these sources. The first is a company that markets astrology services. The second is the site for a religious sect. Neither is a reliable source for explaining the concept of prasada in Wikivoice. You made this edit yesterday, after you'd confirmed here and on my talk that you understood sourcing policy.
    The reason for an indef from article space is to allow you to learn this policy: You would go into article talk and suggest sources to fix citation needed tags. Another editor would have to agree with you that the sources are reliable before they'd add them. Valereee (talk) 12:51, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    • A tban from IPA for PerspicazHistorian would be a relief to many editors trying to keep this difficult area in reasonable shape. However, Valereee makes a good point about 'setting a trap': it's doubtful that PH would be able to keep to a tban even if they tried in good faith. I would therefore support a p-block from article space. Bishonen | tålk 16:48, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
      Vanamonde93, no, I don't really think PH can usefully help clean up their mess; I was following Valereee, who has been going into this in some depth, in attempting to keep some way of editing Misplaced Pages open for PH. It's a bit of a counsel of desperation, though; there is very little daylight between an indef and a p-block from article space. Yes, we are in CIR territory; just look at PH's recent supposed evidence on this page for NXcrypto being "engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics": one diff of an opponent complaining on NXcrypto's page, and one diff of somebody reverting NXcrypto. What do those actually prove? That NXcrypto has opponents (big surprise). So, yes, as you suggest, I'll support an indef as well. Bishonen | tålk 20:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
    • Is there a length of time proposed for the p-ban or would it be indefinite? Barkeep49 (talk) 17:06, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
      I would say indefinite; not infinite, but I'd be wary about letting them back into articlespace without some kind of preclearance. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 18:39, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

    References

    1. "Significance of Different Type of Prasad in Hinduism For God". GaneshaSpeaks. Retrieved 2024-12-30.
    2. "What Is Prashad". Shree Swaminarayan Mandir Bhuj. Retrieved 2024-12-30.

    Walter Tau

    Consensus to indefinitely block Walter Tau. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 22:11, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Walter Tau

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Bobby Cohn (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Walter Tau (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe#Final decision
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 4 December 2024 Creation (and subsequent editing and AfC submission) of Draft:Maternity capital. See it's page history, there's no need to supply the entirety of the diffs here.
      • For context on how this subject falls under the purview, see the context given by the news article as shared on the talk page: Russia using adoption of Ukranian children during the Russo-Ukranian war. Then note how this state program directly discusses adoption support, which was adapted by Putin following the start of the war. A citation given in the draft article. The Google translated version specifically notes the changes "At the same time, residents of the new regions will receive maternity capital regardless of the basis and timing of their acquisition of Russian citizenship" (emphasis mine).
      This draft, as it is written, is extremely promotional in areas and could basically be hosted on a state-sponsored website. Given the context, I believe this falls under the topic ban.

    References

    1. Bruce, Camdyn (14 December 2022). "Ukrainian official rips Russia for 'kidnapping' more than 13,000 children". The Hill.
    2. "Путин подписал закон, уточняющий условия выплаты материнского капитала" . interfax.ru.
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. 26 November 2024 Notice given by Rosguill (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) that they were now subject to an arbitration enforcement sanction
    2. 5 December 2024 Blocked by Swatjester (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) for violating the sanction based on the edits to a project page.
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    It has been repeatedly pointed out to Walter Tau that they are skirting the line of the their topic ban by specifically not mentioning the "elephant in the room", see the diff by Asilvering above. They have also repeatedly chosen to ignore advice that they stop editing in the subject area and have repeatedly claimed to fail to see how their editing is problematic. As such, I have opened this discussion here so as to get an answer for Walter Tau on their editing, see "Also, since you mentioned a "topic ban", I would appreciate, if you provide a reference to it, as well as explain how it relates to this article Materniy Capital." They claim to continuously be unaware of the ban, see also their talk page discussions.

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Notified 24 December 2024.


    Discussion concerning Walter Tau

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Walter Tau

    I feel, that the decision by Boby Cohn regarding my draft https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:Maternity_capital, is "arbitrary and capriciuos" to use US legal terms : ], for the following reasons:

    1) nowhere my draft mentions the words "Ukraine" or "Ukrainian".

    2) this draft ] is a translation of the original Russian wiki- article : https://ru.wikipedia.org/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB . I have heard the argument, that different languages in Misplaced Pages use different standards for articles' notability etc. Can someone please provide a web-link to Misplaced Pages rules, that actually confirms, that different standards for different languages is the currently accepted policy. I have been unable to find such statement.

    3) In fact, my draft focuses mostly on the policies before 24 February 2022, i.e. before full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine.

    4) Please correct me, if I am wrong, by it seems that Boby Cohn's only argument of my ban violation is the following statement in my draft of Maternity Capital. "Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship." In my defense: I did not write that statement- it is a Google translation from the Russian wiki, actually a small part of the translated text. And with all honesty, when I was reading the translated text, it did not cross my mind, that someone may interpret so broadly. Also, this sentence-in-question does not really add much to the main subject to the article, and I do not object to its deletion.

    5) Considering, that a) I did not write, but only translated the text-in-question; b) the relevance to the text-in-question to my topic ban is not apparent, particularly in the larger context of the whole article; c) I do not object deleting the text-in-question from the draft; may I suggest changing the draft to fix this controversy?

    6) If there are other controversial sections/sentences in my translated draft, it may be better if someone re-writes them. Most wiki-readers, can agree with a statement, that this draft ] may not reach an "Article of the Day" status, but it has a value as a stand-alone article as well as a source of references (more-to-be-added). Walter Tau (talk) 13:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

    I can see now, why some editors consider the translated addition, that I made, a violation of my ban on editing Russia-Ukraine topic. It was not my intention. I fact, I agree with the deletion of the questionable sentence "Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship.". At the same time, I would like to keep the rest of draft, so that myself and other keep working on getting it published. Do I understand correctly, that the notability of this topic is not being questioned?

    Statement by TylerBurden

    Walter Tau doesn't seem to think they have done anything wrong on Misplaced Pages, so it's honestly not surprising to see them continuing to push the limit despite the sanctions they have received. At some point you have to wonder if there is a foundational WP:COMPETENCE or trolling (or a combination of both) issue. Either way, yes they are clearly violating their topic ban by writing about the Russian kidnapping of Ukrainian children from the war, because that is what this whole ″adoption″ thing is. --TylerBurden (talk) 17:22, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Walter Tau

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Sidestepping for now the question of whether simply not mentioning anything conflict-related would have been enough to avoid a TBAN violation, the references to "new regions" make this a violation much more straightforwardly. Justice is blind but not stupid. Walter, I think we're going to need to see recognition from you that this was a TBAN violation, if we're going to find a good path forward here. I'd also like to know who you are referring to when you reference other editors working on the draft? Auric has made some gnomish edits but you appear to be the only substantive editor. And why are you implying, on Bobby's talk, that y'all have been corresponding by email, when he denies that? -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 22:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I'll be direct: I think Walter knows what he is doing and has no intention of abiding by his TBAN, even when it was exhaustively explained to him, and I don't think we should be wasting further time here when we're almost certainly going to be right back here again within a few weeks. ⇒SWATJester 05:29, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Back off a one week block for violating the topic ban, and already violating it again? (The "new regions" material is unquestionably a violation.) It seems that Walter Tau is either unwilling or unable to abide by the restriction, and does not, even after explanation, understand any of the issues here (or even understand something so simple as that different language Wikipedias are independent from one another and each have their own policies and practices). Given that, I don't see anything to be done here except to indef. Seraphimblade 17:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I am 48 hours early to the party, but I would support an indef here --Guerillero 16:43, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
      @Tamzin and Swatjester: Planning to close this one, since it's been a week – any closing thoughts on the remedy? theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 16:31, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    Seems like everyone responding so far is aligned w/ an indef, which I'd support. ⇒SWATJester 21:16, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

    LaylaCares

    There is consensus to remove LaylaCares's EC flag. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning LaylaCares

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Vice regent (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    LaylaCares (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/ARBPIA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 13:54, December 17, 2024 EC gaming


    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Pretty obvious case of EC gaming. Account created on Nov 17, 2024, then about 500 mostly minor edits followed by the first substantial edit ever was the creation of this article on Dec 17 (subsequently moved to draftspace).VR (Please ping on reply) 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning LaylaCares

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by LaylaCares

    Statement by Aquillion

    Question: Assuming it's determined that they gamed the extended-confirmed restriction, would the page they created be WP:G5-able? I've asked the relevant question in more detail on the CSD talk page, since it is likely to come up again as long as we have such a broad restriction on effect, but I figured it was worth mentioning the issue here as well. --Aquillion (talk) 14:16, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by Dan Murphy

    Please look at Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations, written by the account under discussion. It's a hit job, originally placed in mainspace by this account. Anyone who wrote that shouldn't be allowed with 1 million miles of the topic.Dan Murphy (talk) 23:14, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by starship.paint

    I've edited Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations, so Dan Murphy's link is inaccurate for the purposes of this discussion. For the version of Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations with content only written by LaylaCares, click this link. starship.paint (talk / cont) 10:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning LaylaCares

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I agree that this looks like EC-gaming. Absent evidence that the edits themselves were problematic, I would either TBAN from ARBPIA or pull the EC flag until the user has made 500 edits that aren't rapidfire possibly LLM-assisted gnomish edits. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:02, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I agree on the gaming piece and would suggest mainspace edits+time for restoration of EC. I will throw out 3 months + 500 (substantive) main space edits. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:16, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I agree with Barkeep but I'd up it to 4 months. I don't believe that a TBAN is necessary at this point. voorts (talk/contributions) 04:45, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    • @Aquillion: I agree that the draft should be G5'd, but will wait for consensus to develop here. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      I don't think the wording of WP:ECR allows for deletion of a page that was created by an EC user. (ECR also seems to forget that anything other than articles and talkpages exists, but I think the most reasonable reading of provision A still allows for G5ing drafts at admins' discretion if the criteria are met.) That said, a consensus at AE can delete a page as a "reasonable measure that necessary and proportionate for the smooth running of the project". Deleting under that provision is not something to be done lightly, but I think for a case where a page's existence violates the spirit of an ArbCom restriction but not the letter, it'd be a fair time to do it. And/or this could make for a good ARCA question, probably after PIA5 wraps. -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 03:48, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I would just pull EC and require the editor to apply via AE appeal for its restoration. They should be very clearly aware that receiving such restoration will require both substantial time and making real, substantive edits outside the area, as well as an understanding of what is expected of editors working in a CTOP area. Seraphimblade 01:22, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I see a clear consensus here to remove the EC flag. For clarity, when I proposed a TBAN above it was because removing this flag is an ARBPIA TBAN as long as the ECR remedy remains in place; it's simply a question of whether the editor get the other privileges of EC or not. I don't see a consensus on what to do with the draft, but given that other editors have now made substantive contributions to it, I don't believe it's a good use of AE time to discuss the hypothetical further. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    AstroGuy0

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning AstroGuy0

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Hemiauchenia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:41, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    AstroGuy0 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Contentious topics/Race and intelligence

    (Even though this isn't the usual R&I fare, I consider the intersection of "Race/ethnicity and sex offending", to come under "the intersection of race/ethnicity and human abilities and behaviour")

    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 03:19, 4 January 2025 Asserts that "A majority of the perpetrators were Pakistani men" despite the cited source (freely accessible at ) does not mention the word "Pakistani" or any variant once.
    2. 01:40, 4 January 2025 Describes the sex offender ring as "Pakistani" in the opening sentence when the cited source in the body says that they were only "mainly Pakistani"
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Made aware of contentious topics criterion: 01:52, 4 January 2025
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Additional comments by editor filing complaint:

    This new user seems intent on POVPUSHING regarding "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" and making contentious claims that are not backed up by sources. Hemiauchenia (talk) 03:44, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Discussion concerning AstroGuy0

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by AstroGuy0

    Statement by Iskandar323

    This rather dated "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" malarkey from the UK has recently been pushed on social media by a certain US tech billionaire and is now recirculating in right-wing social media and the blogosphere, partly in connection with UK politics, so this trend could flare before it dims. Iskandar323 (talk) 03:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning AstroGuy0

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    The second diff was before AG0 received a CTOP alert. I've alerted AG0 to other CTOPs that they've edited in, and I am going to warn them for their conduct in diff #1 without prejudice to other admins determining that further action is warranted. voorts (talk/contributions) 04:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    I also looked at the source, and it indeed does not in any way support the claim made; it does not mention "Pakistani" even once. This is a fairly new editor, but I think we need to make it very clear to them that misrepresentation of sources is not something we will tolerate. Seraphimblade 04:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)