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== House in Trier, Germany, where Marx spent his childhood and youth == |
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== Founder of Social Science == |
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Marx was a philosopher, but he wrote in the tradition of holding philosophy and science to be one and the same. This is evident in his thesis on Democritean and Epicurean philosophy, his rejection of idealist philosophy, and naturalist and empericist bases for all of his concepts, especially that of Man. There is also an implicit naturalist moral theory throughout all his work, particularly in his earlier writings, which many conveniently pay less attention to. This is in stark contrast to the economic and sociological theories found in social science, which pride themselves as being free of morality and based upon statistics, mathematical calculations, and behavioural psychology. As such, he was not a sociologist or social scientist as people claim. He could instead be classified as a natural philosopher and empiricist in the tradition of Aristotle, rather than an idealist in the Platonic tradition (like the Hegelians and Kantians). <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 22:42, 15 April 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:Please find a source for any material you want to include. Material in Misplaced Pages articles needs sources: see ]. ] (]) 22:46, 15 April 2012 (UTC) |
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: Well here in UK college level sociology you study Weber, Durkheim and Marx's views as the three main views, looking at each topic (crime, education, family etc) in context of those and other views, so yes Marx and the result of his influence is important to understanding sociology, the study of society. Now if you dont mind I want to go back to sitting on my ass all day. |
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] (]) 17:02, 21 April 2012 (UTC) |
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:: Trivially, the introductory chapter of ''Capitalism and Modern Social Theory'' by Anthony Giddens (an established authority in sociology and the former head of the ]) positions Marx (along with Durkheim and Weber) as one of the founders of the modern social sciences. This is also a basic tidbit you're likely to run into in any introductory theoretical text on anthropology, sociology, or social theory. If I can remember the actual context of where Marx was cited I'll quote Giddens, but maybe someone could help me out on where it should or shouldn't go. ] (]) 21:39, 21 April 2012 (UTC) |
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== description of class struggle in lead == |
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Some changes have been going on recently in regards to the description of class struggle in the lead. |
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#The read, "...class struggle: a conflict between an ownership class which controls production and a lower class which produces the labour for such goods." |
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#] this to "... class struggle: an ownership class controls production and profits from the labour of a lower class which produces such goods." |
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#This is, in my opinion, not the best wording, -- we no longer have the "between" which indicates a struggle, and "produces such goods" is rendered unintelligible and referentless with "the labour for" excised. I changed it to "... class struggle: in capitalism, this struggle is between the capitalist class, which owns the means of production, and the workers, who have only their labour power to sell." I feel that this is more precise, more clearly worded, and actually more in line with Marx's conception of class struggle. |
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:::Since the sentence is about class struggle in general ("all societies"), I feel it necessary to specify that the struggle between the owners of the means of production and (wage) laborers is the form this struggle takes ''under capitalism''. |
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:::"Controls production" is too vague (controls what aspect of production?); I think we need to specify ownership of the means of production. |
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:::The point of the Marxist analysis of the lower class is that their only asset is their labor power. Many social analysis acknowledge a rift between powerful and powerless classes, but the point of Marxist analysis hinges on the distinction between those with and those without access to the means of production. I do think that my proposed version describes class struggle concisely and more or less precisely; if others disagree, I would still be in favor of the older version (No. 1 above), as it's clearer than the one that replaced it. ] (]) 13:57, 17 April 2012 (UTC) |
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::::As an afterthought and a point of etiquette, non-trivial changes to the wording in the lead should probably never be classified as minor edits... ] (]) 22:02, 17 April 2012 (UTC) |
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], the father of Karl Marx, bought the small mansard roof building in ]´s Simeonstrasse in 1819 <ref>{{cite book |last1=Longuet |first1=Robert-Jean |title=Karl Marx mein Urgroßvater |date=1977 |location=Berlin |page=16}}</ref> when Karl was only one year old. The later socialist grew up here with his parents and five siblings and moved out aged 17 after his graduation from secondary school (Gymnasium). Yet as a grown up man, he returned to Trier several times to visit his relatives. |
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:: You misunderstood completely and carelessly. Read the lead sentence that you wrote, then read the sentence right after. Marx's analysis is describe by (generic) two classes one ownership, one labour based throughout history (feudalism and so on), then the next sentence it states "heavily critical of current form of society, capitalism," making it confusing to read as capitalism is introduced twice. Marx's analysis of dialetic is ''historical'', all societies feudalism>capitalism etc progress through the class struggle, the next part is a definition after the semi-colon of class struggle generically. Then we have a sentence after describing Marx's capitalism specifically. The way you have written it introduced capitalism twice one sentence after the other. The version I put it to was used for a long time before you changed it and makes better sense. ] (]) 16:34, 21 April 2012 (UTC) |
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Compared to today, little has changed in the historical city center of Trier: The main characteristics of the old town around the market place have been preserved and looked more or less the same back in the days when Karl Marx lived there <ref>{{cite book |last1=Neffe |first1=Jürgen |title=Marx der Unvollendete |date=2017 |publisher=Bertelsmann |isbn=ISBN-13 978-3570102732 |page=41}}</ref>. In particular the neighbourhood of the house to the Trier's most famous landmark, the Roman city gate ], is still impressive. In most parts unchanged to this day, it is likely that Karl Marx took the very same route to school every day that tourists can walk today <ref>{{cite book |last1=Monz |first1=Heinz |date=1964 |location=Trier |page=164}}</ref>. |
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The house in Simeonstraße had a lasting impact on Karl Marx, especially since he had been educated here in home schooling until the age of 12 <ref>{{cite book |last1=Baumeister |first1=Jens |title=Wie der Wein Karl Marx zum Kommunisten machte: Ein Kommunist als Streiter für die Moselwinzer |date=2017 |location=Trier |isbn=ISBN 978-3000564710 |page=32}}</ref>. |
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As an adult, Karl Marx returned to live with his family in this house during his visits several times. For example in 1841 after his doctoral studies in Berlin, Marx travelled back to Trier. The main reason for his return home was to be close to his long-term fiancée ]. Also in the following year, 1842, Karl Marx spent some months in the house in Simeonstraße 8 (then Simeongasse 1040) in order to take care of family matters <ref>{{cite book |last1=Longuet |first1=Robert-Jean |title=Karl Marx mein Urgroßvater |date=1977 |location=Berlin |page=52}}</ref>. |
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Location of the house |
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== ] == |
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The former home of Karl Marx in Simeonstraße 8 (then Simeongasse 1040) looks rather unremarkable at the beginning of Trier's shopping promenade close to the famous Porta Nigra. Only a few minutes walk leads visitors to the bronze statue of Karl Marx by ] – a present from the People's Republic of China to Trier. |
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Is this mentioned in the article? What about the lead, seems pretty important to me. ] (]) 16:43, 21 April 2012 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 19 March 2024 == |
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== Major problems with (lack of) referencing == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Karl Marx|answered=yes}} |
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I am very worried about the recent edits to the article (mainly by {{user|WellsSouth}}). A lot of unteferenced content has been added, looking just at the first half (up to and including ''The Panic of 1857: The First World-Wide Recession'' section), I count numerous sentences, and two entire unreferenced paras. I tagged them all, and I am deeply worried that the article is no longer GA due to insufficient referencing. On a side note, many new headings use improper capitalization (regular nouns and adjectives should not be capitalized). Lastly, a number of paragraphs added seem simply irrelevant. In the mentioned ''The Panic of 1857: The First World-Wide Recession'' two out of three paras simply deal with the recession, and do not mention Marx or his thought at all. This article is not a place to discuss world's history during Marx's lifetime. I am afraid that if this is not going to be fixed, we should revert the article to a previous version, before the swaths of unreferenced content were added (per ]). --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</sub> 16:48, 23 April 2012 (UTC) |
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Moses Mordecai Levi, otherwise known as Karl Heinrich Marx (May 5, 1818-March 14, 1883) was a German-Jewish philosopher, economist, historian, revolutionary, and journalist from Trier, Germany. ] (]) 12:06, 19 March 2024 (UTC) |
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*I couldn't agree more: I was inclined to revert the lot. ] (]) 16:52, 23 April 2012 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done:''' please provide ] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> <br />— ]<sup></nowiki>]]</nowiki>]]</sup> ⋮ 13:43, 19 March 2024 (UTC) |
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* I last looked at this yesterday evening sometime, there was one edit that seemed unobjectionable. It seems to have exploded since then, and I can't really find sources for much of this information. I think it should go. ] (]) 19:05, 23 April 2012 (UTC) |
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:I am not finding any reliable sources on this. The only ones I found were articles using his Jewish identity to attack him. Here is one very biased article that mentions Moses mordecai Levi https://www.news24.com/news24/karl-marx-and-his-hateful-dream-of-atheism-20120913 |
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*I'm going to revert. I consider to be fairly typical: it involves the citation of a primary source in a paragraph whose importance is not clear and which contains original research/analysis. is a typical example of a slightly different kind, which likewise seems to involve original research and extrapolation and the reference given is quite unclear; you'll find more of the same in the editor's other contributions. That referencing, by the way, is not up to par with GA standards. I've reverted to a version from mid-April, which is 30k lighter. Thank you all. ] (]) 15:11, 24 April 2012 (UTC) |
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:There is also a random reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/karlmarx/comments/riufhh/was_karl_marx_his_birth_name/ |
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**Good catch, I didn't notice that many of the refs added where to primary sources (so, OR). To prevent Wells good faithed work from being wasted, I'd suggest moving all of the content he added here, perhaps somebody could salvage some of it with better references? --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</sub> 18:12, 24 April 2012 (UTC) |
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:The only potentially legitimate source I found is where it says his paternal grandfather's name was Mordechai Levi |
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:All the other sources are baseless conspiracy theories connecting him to the Rothschilds. |
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:Please present reliable sources before starting a topic on talk pages. ] (]) 21:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC) |
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== Critiques of Marx as a person. == |
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== Pronunciation Guide == |
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Little to nothing about the personal character or contradictions of Marx as a human being. Seems one sided. Not looking for character assassination but a more balanced view. ] (]) 21:48, 14 April 2024 (UTC) |
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kar'ull marks] (]) 21:58, 30 May 2012 (UTC) |
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:Any suggestions on what to add? Please elaborate a bit more ] (]) 21:09, 27 June 2024 (UTC) |
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== Place of marriage == |
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== Did Marx's parents convert to escape persecution, as many Jews did, or did they sincerely practice Christianity? == |
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I know this is a very minor issue, but the often-cited claim that Marx married in the '']'' is probably false, as that church underwent a major a renovation in 1843. Thus, nearby ''Wilhelmskirche'' is the most likely place of marriage. I'm referring here to a historiography published in 1951 (''Geschichte der evangelischen Gemeinde Kreuznach'') which has been cited by a local newspaper recently, so I'm going to look that up in the German National Library. Just to let you know, 'cause probably every source published in the last 50 years claims otherwise, and sooner or later someone will insist on their factual accuracy. --] (]) 18:47, 6 June 2012 (UTC) |
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Asking here because this is not mentioned at all in the article and I'm wondering if it's applicable ] (]) 12:12, 31 October 2024 (UTC) |
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== Marx's racialism == |
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:Marx's family were not very religious Jews. After they converted, they were not very religious Christians either. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 12:15, 31 October 2024 (UTC) |
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See Nathaniel Weyl, "Karl Marx, Racist", 1979. |
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:Heinrich Michael in Karl Marx and the Birth of Modern Society goes in detail why Heinrich Marx converted in chapter Karl's Marx Parents. Basically Heinrich converted so he could keep he's job as a lawyer. ] (]) 18:54, 15 November 2024 (UTC) |
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:See http://www.wnd.com/2006/06/36692/ <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 15:05, 11 June 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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Location of the house
The former home of Karl Marx in Simeonstraße 8 (then Simeongasse 1040) looks rather unremarkable at the beginning of Trier's shopping promenade close to the famous Porta Nigra. Only a few minutes walk leads visitors to the bronze statue of Karl Marx by Wu Weishan – a present from the People's Republic of China to Trier.
Moses Mordecai Levi, otherwise known as Karl Heinrich Marx (May 5, 1818-March 14, 1883) was a German-Jewish philosopher, economist, historian, revolutionary, and journalist from Trier, Germany. Prism Steno Book (talk) 12:06, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
Little to nothing about the personal character or contradictions of Marx as a human being. Seems one sided. Not looking for character assassination but a more balanced view. Redonefifty (talk) 21:48, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
level-3 vital article is rated GA-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
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Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.