| Revision as of 16:37, 22 June 2012 editKauffner (talk | contribs)32,539 edits →Also← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 08:43, 5 March 2013 edit undoKauffner (talk | contribs)32,539 edits →Requested Move: → Ugetsu monogatari | ||
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| =Current RMs= | =Current RMs= | ||
| * |
* ''(])'' – '''] → {{no redirect|Yui}}''' | ||
| * |
* ''(])'' – '''] → {{no redirect|Pondicherry}}''' | ||
| * ''(])'' – '''] → {{noredirect|1=Foreign relations of China}}''' This proposal would move a descriptive title to correspond to the title of the country article, which is at ]. | |||
| * ''(])'' – '''] → {{noredirect|1=Lady Trieu}}''' Current title includes a given name that does not appear in the primary sources, nor is it given in most secondary sources. | |||
| * ''(])'' – '''] → {{noredirect|1=Black Caviar}}''' "Black Caviar" and "black caviar" are naturally disambiguated by capitalization, per ]. | |||
| =Proposed RMs= | =Proposed RMs= | ||
| ''On their way, ready or not.'' | ''On their way, ready or not.'' | ||
| == |
==Requested Move: → Nam Viet== | ||
| <nowiki>{{subst:requested move|Nam Viet}}</nowiki> | |||
| <nowiki>{{subst:requested move|Ivory Coast}}</nowiki> shows that "Ivory Coast" is far more common than "Côte d'Ivoire" on Google Books. All the major English-language news organizations use "Ivory Coast", including , '''', , '''', and . Few English-language readers type in "Cote D'Ivoire" as a search term, according to . ] (]) 04:03, 12 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| # Both '''' and Encarta give this state as "Nam Viet". | |||
| *'''Support''' - Until or if the French name becomes the predominant name in English-language sources, we should follow Misplaced Pages rules and use the current common name in English. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 07:13, 12 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| # This state plays a larger role in Vietnamese history than it does in Chinese history. Historical writing on Vietnam uses "Nam Viet" almost exclusively. See Karnow's '''' (1997), Taylor's '''' (1991), and Corfield's '''' (2008). | |||
| *'''Support'''. Ivorians may call it Cote D'Ivoire in the same way Germans call their country "Deutschland". The convention on Misplaced Pages is to use the English name of the country. ~] <small>(])</small> 18:45, 21 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| # Much of the notability of this state comes from the fact that the modern name "Vietnam" is derived from it. This fact is obscured if it is referred to as "Nanyue." | |||
| # This state was located in southern China and northern Vietnam. "Nanyue" is based on modern northern Chinese pronunciation, while "Nam Viet" is based on Vietnamese pronunciation. We should focus on how historians view the state rather than trying to classify it ourselves. But it should be noted that the population was Viet and Cantonese, and this was before either people had adopted Chinese culture to any significant degree. | |||
| # This state is quite well-known in Vietnam through the "The Tale of the Magic Crossbow", perhaps the best-known Vietnamese legend. | |||
| ⚫ | ===Survey=== | ||
| ⚫ | ==RfC: Zionist entity== | ||
| <nowiki>{{rfc|pol}}</nowiki> Should the phrase "Zionist entity" be presented as the standard way Arabs refer to Israel? | |||
| I think most people who read this article will conclude that this phrase is the standard name for Israel in Arabic, or is at least a very common one. The significance of this issue is that the article portrays this phrase not simply as a run-of-the-mill term of abuse, but rather as a way of, "refusing to acknowledge existence, and denying its legitimacy or right to exist." But in fact Arab sources from the '''' to use "Israel". On GBooks, there are post-2000 hits for "{{lang|ar|إسرائيل}}" (Israel) , for "{{lang|ar|الكيان الصهيوني}}" (Zionist entity). "Zionist entity" isn't popular usage either. On , the search ratio is 25 to 1. | |||
| References misused as a quote farm | |||
| Few of the article's sources can be considered authorities on Arabic language usage. Instead, they are opinionated claims made in books that on Arab-Israeli politics. This article started as a quote farm and then the quotes were reformulated as references. So the phrase "Zionist entity is a phrase used by Arabs", which is hardly in need of sourcing, has nine (9!) references, each of which serves a pretext to include an opinionated quote. | |||
| ⚫ | *"Although it may be impossible to discern the motivations of the authors, one should compare their silence with the more direct approach taken by Arab media. On the ''Al Jazeera'' homepage, you can find the word 'Israel' in both English and Arabic. The same is true of the homepage for ''Asharq Al-Awsat,'' the internationally-read Arabic newspaper headquartered in London." Adesnik, David, "", ''],'' April 20, 2007. | ||
| ⚫ | == Requested Move: → Bollinger bands == | ||
| <nowiki>{{subst:requested move|Bollinger bands}}</nowiki>, per ]. | |||
| ===Survey=== | |||
| == Requested Move: No Gun Ri Massacre → No Gun Ri == | == Requested Move: No Gun Ri Massacre → No Gun Ri == | ||
| Line 27: | Line 46: | ||
| |- | |- | ||
| |'''New York Times'''||5||128-5=123||{{google|"No Gun Ri" site:www.nytimes.com}}<br>{{google|"No Gun Ri Massacre" site:www.nytimes.com}} | |'''New York Times'''||5||128-5=123||{{google|"No Gun Ri" site:www.nytimes.com}}<br>{{google|"No Gun Ri Massacre" site:www.nytimes.com}} | ||
| ⚫ | |} | ||
| |}] (]) 23:47, 9 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ===Survey=== | |||
| ⚫ | ==Requested Move: |
||
| <nowiki>{{subst:requested move|Ireland (state)}}</nowiki> The article on the nation-state of Ireland is currently at ]. Just plain "Ireland" is the common name, and Wiki's usual practice is to put countries at their short-form common names. As the island was deemed primary topic, the state could not be titled by common name only. But using the term "Republic of Ireland" this way misleads readers into thinking that this is a long-form formal name along the lines of "Kingdom of Spain" or "French Republic." The says, "The name of the State is ''Éire'', or, in the English language, Ireland." Based on this clause, the Irish Supreme Court denied in 1989 that ROI is a legal name, stating that this claim is, "an erroneous statement of the law of Ireland." Just plain "Ireland" is the usage of the , , '''', and the {{CIA World Factbook link|ei|Ireland}}. The gives the name of the country numerous times as simply "Ireland" -- no "republic." In fact, the Irish government has discouraged the use of the term ROI for some time, as documented at ]. The purpose of an encyclopedia is to inform. This purpose is not advanced if an "erroneous" name is used. | |||
| ⚫ | ==Requested Move: → Halle == | ||
| ''Vote '''Support''' or '''Oppose''' for both of the options below:'' | |||
| <nowiki>{{subst:move-multi | |||
| ⚫ | === |
||
| | current1 = Halle (Saale) | |||
| *'''The state at ]. The island at ].''' | |||
| | new1 = Halle | |||
| | current2 = Halle | |||
| | new2 = Halle (disambiguation) | |||
| | reason =</nowiki> per ]. '''' gives this town as simply "Halle", and they have only one listing for Halle. The German press gives the name of this city as "Halle/Saale," and this current title may be an attempt to anglicize this. Because of Wiki's titling conventions, "Saale" in the current title gets misinterpreted as a disambiguator. The river names may mean something to Germans, but in English they generally get dropped off, e.g. "Frankfurt am Main" becomes ].<nowiki>}}</nowiki> | |||
| ===Survey=== | |||
| == |
==Also== | ||
| *] → ] actual name. | |||
| *'''Move the state to ]. The primary topic issue can be dealt with later.''' | |||
| ⚫ | *] → ] | ||
| :*] → ] | |||
| *] → ], per ]. | |||
| *] → ]. Why construct a plural in German when a regular English-language plural exists? | |||
| ⚫ | *] → ] | ||
| ⚫ | ==RfC: Zionist entity== | ||
| This article claims that "Zionist entity" is the common Arabic word for Israel, and also that use of the word implies extreme hatred for Israel. Both claims are sourced to various political diatribes, which are treated as if they were the findings of language experts. The Arabs have a neutral word for Israel that is used 99 percent of the time in the Arabic RS. So this term is more like calling the French "frogs" or the Italians "wops", i.e. not a mainstream polite usage. In 1967, Nasser wanted to "drive Israel into the sea," not "drive the Zionist entity into the sea." This article started as a quote farm and then the quotes were reformulated as references. So the phrase "Zionist entity is a phrase used by Arabs", which is hardly in need of sourcing, has nine (9!) references, each of which serves a pretext to include an opinionated quote. | |||
| *] → ]. "Quemoy" is the spelling of ''Britannica'' and other reference works. Far more readers are searching for Quemoy than for Kinmen, according to Insights. | |||
| ⚫ | *"Although it may be impossible to discern the motivations of the authors, one should compare their silence with the more direct approach taken by Arab media. On the ''Al Jazeera'' homepage, you can find the word 'Israel' in both English and Arabic. The same is true of the homepage for ''Asharq Al-Awsat,'' the internationally-read Arabic newspaper headquartered in London." Adesnik, ", ''],'' April 20, 2007. | ||
| *] → ], per ]. | |||
| == Requested Move: Charles, Prince of Wales → Prince Charles == | |||
| Let's call royals by the names they are usually referred to. ] (]) 10:34, 10 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ⚫ | *] → ]. This title's badness is quantifiable. When the page was moved to its current title, readership fell by 14 percent. | ||
| {| class="wikitable collapsible sortable" | |||
| ! Organization|| Prince Charles || Charles, Prince of Wales || URLs | |||
| |- | |||
| |'''The Age'''||9,920||57||{{google|"Prince Charles" site:www.theage.com.au}}<br>{{google|"Charles, Prince of Wales" site:www.theage.com.au}} | |||
| |- | |||
| |'''BBC''' ||24,900||233||{{google|"Prince Charles" site:www.bbc.co.uk}}<br>{{google|"Charles, Prince of Wales" site:www.bbc.co.uk}} | |||
| |- | |||
| | '''Sky'''||21||5||{{google|"Prince Charles" site:www.sky.com/}}<br>{{google|"Charles, Prince of Wales" site:www.sky.com/}} | |||
| |- | |||
| |'''New York Times'''||3,210||149||{{google|"Prince Charles" site:www.nytimes.com}}<br>{{google|"Charles, Prince of Wales" site:www.nytimes.com}} | |||
| ⚫ | |} | ||
| ⚫ | *] → ], per ]. See Cf. ], ] | ||
| ⚫ | == Requested |
||
| :*] → ], per ] | |||
| <nowiki>{{subst:requested move|Carmel-by-the-Sea}}</nowiki> confirms that the subject's name is as proposed, and that this is the only town of said name. Per ], there is no need for disambiguation, which in this case makes the title quite a mouthful. The title should tell the reader how the subject is commonly referred to in the real world, not give its postal address. People looking for the town will already know that it is in California. Those who don't can figure it out from the article's opening sentence. There is a book about the town named ''''. ''''`s entry opens "'''Carmel''', also called '''Carmel-by-the-Sea'''", '''' says "Carmel-by-the-Sea or Carmel," '''' says "'''Carmel-by-the-Sea''' or Carmel", and '''' says "Camel-by-the-Sea (Carmel)". | |||
| :*] → ] | |||
| *] → ], per ]. The subject has appeared in movies and TV shows, always credited by full name. Does it make any sense for ] and ] to lead to different articles? | |||
| ⚫ | *] → ] The subject is most commonly referred to as "the kaiser". So "kaiser" improves the title's recognizability, especially when compared to "emperor". Amazon's the top selling bios are MacDonogh's '''' and Clark's ''''. The current form is already irregular in terms of ], and it is listed as an exception in the guideline. | ||
| ==Also== | |||
| ⚫ | *] → ] The subject is most commonly referred to as "the kaiser" |
||
| ⚫ | *] → ], per ]. See | ||
| *] → ], per ]. | |||
| ⚫ | *] → ]. This title's badness is quantifiable. When the page was moved to its current title, readership fell by 14 percent. | ||
| *] → ] Now that the film has won an Oscar, I don't think we write off the page view stats as "recentism." | |||
| ⚫ | *] → ] | ||
| ⚫ | *] |
||
Latest revision as of 08:43, 5 March 2013
Current RMs
- (Discuss) – Yui (singer) → Yui
- (Discuss) – Pondicherry (city) → Pondicherry
Proposed RMs
On their way, ready or not.
Requested Move: → Nam Viet
{{subst:requested move|Nam Viet}}
- Both Britannica and Encarta give this state as "Nam Viet".
- This state plays a larger role in Vietnamese history than it does in Chinese history. Historical writing on Vietnam uses "Nam Viet" almost exclusively. See Karnow's Vietnam: A History (1997), Taylor's The Birth of Vietnam (1991), and Corfield's The History of Vietnam (2008).
- Much of the notability of this state comes from the fact that the modern name "Vietnam" is derived from it. This fact is obscured if it is referred to as "Nanyue."
- This state was located in southern China and northern Vietnam. "Nanyue" is based on modern northern Chinese pronunciation, while "Nam Viet" is based on Vietnamese pronunciation. We should focus on how historians view the state rather than trying to classify it ourselves. But it should be noted that the population was Viet and Cantonese, and this was before either people had adopted Chinese culture to any significant degree.
- This state is quite well-known in Vietnam through the "The Tale of the Magic Crossbow", perhaps the best-known Vietnamese legend.
Survey
RfC: Zionist entity
{{rfc|pol}} Should the phrase "Zionist entity" be presented as the standard way Arabs refer to Israel?
I think most people who read this article will conclude that this phrase is the standard name for Israel in Arabic, or is at least a very common one. The significance of this issue is that the article portrays this phrase not simply as a run-of-the-mill term of abuse, but rather as a way of, "refusing to acknowledge existence, and denying its legitimacy or right to exist." But in fact Arab sources from the Daily Star to Hezbollah use "Israel". On GBooks, there are 600,000 post-2000 hits for "إسرائيل" (Israel) , 30,000 for "الكيان الصهيوني" (Zionist entity). "Zionist entity" isn't popular usage either. On Google Trends, the search ratio is 25 to 1.
References misused as a quote farm
Few of the article's sources can be considered authorities on Arabic language usage. Instead, they are opinionated claims made in books that on Arab-Israeli politics. This article started as a quote farm and then the quotes were reformulated as references. So the phrase "Zionist entity is a phrase used by Arabs", which is hardly in need of sourcing, has nine (9!) references, each of which serves a pretext to include an opinionated quote.
- "Although it may be impossible to discern the motivations of the authors, one should compare their silence with the more direct approach taken by Arab media. On the Al Jazeera homepage, you can find the word 'Israel' in both English and Arabic. The same is true of the homepage for Asharq Al-Awsat, the internationally-read Arabic newspaper headquartered in London." Adesnik, David, "How Do You Say 'Israel' in Arabic?", The Weekly Standard, April 20, 2007.
Requested Move: → Bollinger bands
{{subst:requested move|Bollinger bands}}, per WP:CAPS.
Survey
Requested Move: No Gun Ri Massacre → No Gun Ri
{{subst:requested move|No Gun Ri}} Proposed form is both more common, and less POV. There was an RM several years back that supported this move, see here. So the proposed name is already a consensus that has not been officially reversed. The village is not notable enough to be listed on GeoNames, so we can assume all references are to the massacre.
| Organization | No Gun Ri Massacre | "No Gun Ri” - “No Gun Ri Massacre" | URLs |
|---|---|---|---|
| Korea Times | 3 | 4-3=1 | "No Gun Ri" site:www.koreatimes.co.kr "No Gun Ri Massacre" site:www.koreatimes.co.kr |
| BBC | 2 | 8-2=6 | "No Gun Ri" site:www.bbc.co.uk "No Gun Ri Massacre" site:www.bbc.co.uk |
| Chosun Ilbo | 2 | 4-2=2 | "No Gun Ri" site:english.chosun.com/ "No Gun Ri Massacre" site:english.chosun.com/ |
| New York Times | 5 | 128-5=123 | "No Gun Ri" site:www.nytimes.com "No Gun Ri Massacre" site:www.nytimes.com |
Survey
Requested Move: → Halle
{{subst:move-multi | current1 = Halle (Saale) | new1 = Halle | current2 = Halle | new2 = Halle (disambiguation) | reason = per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Britannica gives this town as simply "Halle", and they have only one listing for Halle. The German press gives the name of this city as "Halle/Saale," and this current title may be an attempt to anglicize this. Because of Wiki's titling conventions, "Saale" in the current title gets misinterpreted as a disambiguator. The river names may mean something to Germans, but in English they generally get dropped off, e.g. "Frankfurt am Main" becomes Frankfurt.}}
Survey
Also
- Democratic-Republican Party → Republican Party (blah) actual name.
- Đàn đáy → Dan day
- Bathurst_Island_(Northern_Territory) → Bathurst_Island, per WP:TWODABS.
- Halligen → Hallig Islands. Why construct a plural in German when a regular English-language plural exists?
- Kinmen → Quemoy. "Quemoy" is the spelling of Britannica and other reference works. Far more readers are searching for Quemoy than for Kinmen, according to Insights.
- Nordfriesland → North Friesland, per WP:UE.
- Piano Sonata No. 14 (Beethoven) → Moonlight Sonata. This title's badness is quantifiable. When the page was moved to its current title, readership fell by 14 percent.
- Praha Masarykovo nádraží → Prague Masaryk railway station, per WP:UE. See Radio Prague Cf. Praha-Smíchov railway station, Praha-Holešovice railway station
- Sooyoung → Choi Soo-young, per NCP#Single_name. The subject has appeared in movies and TV shows, always credited by full name. Does it make any sense for Sooyoung and Soo-young to lead to different articles?
- Wilhelm II, German Emperor → Kaiser Wilhelm II The subject is most commonly referred to as "the kaiser". So "kaiser" improves the title's recognizability, especially when compared to "emperor". Amazon's the top selling bios are MacDonogh's The Last Kaiser: The Life of Wilhelm II and Clark's Kaiser Wilhelm II. The current form is already irregular in terms of WP:NCROY, and it is listed as an exception in the guideline.