| Revision as of 05:24, 26 April 2006 editMystork (talk | contribs)79 edits →Protection← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 16:05, 14 December 2024 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,302,814 editsm Archiving 2 discussion(s) to Talk:Cuba/Archive 23) (bot |
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{{WikiProject Cuba|importance=Top}} |
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{{Press|year=2006|section=May 2006 |
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| title=Dueling edits dog Misplaced Pages's Cuba entry |
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| org=The Seattle Times <!--Author is Pablo Bachelet--> |
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| date=May 5, 2006 |
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| url=http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002973183_wiki05.html |
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== Human Rights section in need of review; who wrote this? == |
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==Cuba Government Sandbox== |
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Below is a sandbox for the Cuba Government section. All users can play in it and give it their best shot! --] 21:45, 24 April 2006 (UTC) |
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=== <s>Torture and weird sources</s> === |
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What is the point of yet another arena for arguing about whether Cuba is a democracy or not? The matter will be decided here or not at all. ] 13:03, 25 April 2006 (UTC) |
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<s>First of all, simply writing "The Cuban government has been accused of numerous human rights abuses including torture, arbitrary imprisonment, unfair trials, and extrajudicial executions" is not sufficient without mention of proper sources, for example NGO's or some recognized polity. I could accuse Norway of torture right now, so? What is this source supposed to be? http://www.cidh.org/countryrep/Cuba67sp/indice.htm It is dated 1967? Surely something more recent should be found, otherwise the section might aswell be moved to "history of Cuba" Torture? Extrajudicial executions? I can't find any mention of these in recent reports. Not even the US state department claims the Cuban government practices torture or extrajudicial execution. Here is the recent report by human rights watch https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2021/country-chapters/cuba#3159b0 It does not mention torture, sexual abuse of inmates or extrajudicial executions. Those parts should be removed or changed to include what time this accusation was made. |
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'''Needs update''' |
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:It is an arena where users can participate and discuss the issues free from so called "robust tactics" and counter-productive antagonistic sparring. Because if I don't believe that a user is making a valid contribution, I can happily delete the comments within my rights. It's come to this, I'm afraid, Adam. If you were to agree to adhere to civility policies on this page, my sandbox would be unneccessary. --] 15:08, 25 April 2006 (UTC) |
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''Cuba had the second-highest number of imprisoned journalists of any nation in 2008 (China had the highest) according to various sources, including the Committee to Protect Journalists and Human Rights Watch'' |
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Here it is mentioned that the statistic stems from 2008, which is good. But this statistic is kind of useless other then mentioning a previous condition. It missrepresents Cuba for the average reader. Cuba did not even make the list of this 2018 ranking for imprisoned journalists: https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/12/13/where-the-most-journalists-are-imprisoned-worldwide-infographic/?sh=1b693b336332 |
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OK, you can debate the matter elsewhere all you like, but any edits to the article itself will be subject to the same process of debate here as all previous edits have been. ] 00:25, 26 April 2006 (UTC) |
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The situation of journalists in Cuba is still under scrutany, but for different reasons. For example HRC writes: Cuba has the “most restricted climate for the press in the Americas” according to a 2019 Committee to Protect Journalists report. |
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'''WP:POV?''' |
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==Education== |
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The section does not balance out the negatives with the positives, such as information about Cubans access to healthcare, free abortions and school etc. Accusations from 70 years ago are being represented as if they are currently being made (torture and executions) |
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'''recomendations''' |
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In Cuba education is free and mandatory. The current statistic of 96% comes from a biased source, the frist line of this source is a quote: "the choice is between capitalism and chaos". http://lanic.utexas.edu/la/cb/cuba/asce/cuba8/30smith.pdf |
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1. Remove claims of torture and extrajudicial executions from the first sentence |
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2. Mention were all accusations come from and source it |
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3. Remove the part about sexual abuse of inmates |
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4. Update section to represent current conditions. |
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5. Extend the section about the media with more information and remove the part about imprisonment of journalists. |
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-- <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ])</s> 18 March 2022 (UTC)</span><sup></sup> |
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The current UN figure is 100% http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/cuba.html |
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] 01:53, 25 April 2006 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 27 August 2024 == |
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:Hi Grantplus, I would err on the side of caution with that 100% stat. Although it comes from a firm source it seems open to certain speculation, there is this source which details youth literacy rates (99.8%). As the section is education it may be more appropriate. There is also this rsource here saying that adult literacy rates are 96.9. Take your pick! --] 02:37, 25 April 2006 (UTC) |
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{{Edit semi-protected|Cuba|answered=yes}} |
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The difference seems unimportant. No-one disputes that Cuba has near universal literacy. ] 13:03, 25 April 2006 (UTC) |
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I am trying to give the Lucumí name for Cuba as well as it's original native name "Cubanascnan" ] (]) 23:24, 27 August 2024 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a ] and provide a ] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 23:41, 27 August 2024 (UTC) |
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== Correction == |
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:Various characters who have since been blocked, El Jigue etc, disputed and kept tampering with it when it said 100% - if I recall they were adding provisos etc. We're best off putting the citation least prone to misinterpretation. --] 13:20, 25 April 2006 (UTC) |
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cuba is a state capitalist country, not socialist. Please fix this. ] (]) 05:49, 14 December 2024 (UTC) |
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No country has literally 100% literacy. "Near universal literacy" is certainly true. ] 13:36, 25 April 2006 (UTC) |
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:{{Not done}}: please provide ] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] ]<sup>]</sup> 06:16, 14 December 2024 (UTC) |
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==Protection== |
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I've sprotected because I see there's reverting against anons, and a sockpuppet account has just turned up elsewhere who may be heading here. If anyone thinks sprotection is inappropriate, let me know and I'll undo. Cheers, ] <sup><font color="Purple">]</font></sup> 06:59, 25 April 2006 (UTC) |
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What criteria will you be using to decide when to unprotect the article? ] 09:29, 25 April 2006 (UTC) |
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What does "sprotect" mean? ] 00:23, 26 April 2006 (UTC) |
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:Sprotect means that anon IPs and new accounts can't edit it, so it stops vandalism and some sockpuppetry. Everyone else can carry on as normal. I'll unprotect if you think there's no problem, so let me know. ] <sup><font color="Purple">]</font></sup> 00:36, 26 April 2006 (UTC) |
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I see. I wasn't aware of this innovation. I don't think the problem here has been anon IPs or new accounts. The issue has been a deadlock between two groups of editors. ] 00:43, 26 April 2006 (UTC) |
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It is a minor inconvenience for me, as I now have to log on to my old account to make edits. ] 05:24, 26 April 2006 (UTC) |
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== Not a democracy? == |
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Regarding Adams recent edit . Here is a good quote I found by Bob Huish, a graduate student at Queens University. |
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:'''Myth:''' Democracy does not exist in Cuba. |
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:'''Reality:''' The American system of democracy does not exist in Cuba. Cuba hold elections every four years, whereby every political position is up for renewal – even the presidential title. The system of elections is different from the British, American, or French system, but it is based on a fair method of allowing every person (aged 16 or older) to vote for representatives to represent them in National, Provincial, and Municipal levels of government. |
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:Often the thought of a one party system jades people from seeing how democracy can operate in Cuba. The system is unique from traditional interpretations of Western Democracy, but the freedoms of choice and personal expression do exist. It is a unique system – just as Canadian Government is a unique system from that of the US. |
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:For further reading on Cuban Democracy: |
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:August, Arnold. Democracy in Cuba and the 1997-1998 Elections. La Habana: Jose Marti Editorial Press, 1999. |
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It is indeed a good quote, illustrating as it does what is either the gross stupidity or the gross dishonesty (possibly both) of Cuba apologists. I suggest Mr Huish go to Havana and try to express overt opposition to the Castro government, or that he get one of his Cuban friends to try to nominate as a "Down with Castro" candidate at the next elections. He will soon learn the truth about Cuban democracy. ] 01:07, 26 April 2006 (UTC) |
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:I really don't think it is your place to dictate what is "stupid" or "dishonest." ] 01:20, 26 April 2006 (UTC) |
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I hope we can settle down at "not a ]" As I said in the summary, it leaves less room for never-ending debate, and leaves the people who feel liberal democracy is the only kind happy, as well as the people who think democracy applies to Cuba in a different form. ] 05:20, 26 April 2006 (UTC) |
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Here it is mentioned that the statistic stems from 2008, which is good. But this statistic is kind of useless other then mentioning a previous condition. It missrepresents Cuba for the average reader. Cuba did not even make the list of this 2018 ranking for imprisoned journalists: https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/12/13/where-the-most-journalists-are-imprisoned-worldwide-infographic/?sh=1b693b336332
The situation of journalists in Cuba is still under scrutany, but for different reasons. For example HRC writes: Cuba has the “most restricted climate for the press in the Americas” according to a 2019 Committee to Protect Journalists report.
The section does not balance out the negatives with the positives, such as information about Cubans access to healthcare, free abortions and school etc. Accusations from 70 years ago are being represented as if they are currently being made (torture and executions)
1. Remove claims of torture and extrajudicial executions from the first sentence
2. Mention were all accusations come from and source it
3. Remove the part about sexual abuse of inmates
4. Update section to represent current conditions.
5. Extend the section about the media with more information and remove the part about imprisonment of journalists.
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale..svg){kind=small}
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Jamedeus (talk) 23:41, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. (CC) Tbhotch 06:16, 14 December 2024 (UTC)