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== Statistics from Human Rights Watch ==

The textbook cited makes a vague attribution of the figures to "studies" by Human Rights Watch. Before putting a sensational claim on the main page, shouldn't somebody properly cite the study that is the source of the numbers---particularly if it is a "study" by an advocacy organization rather than a peer-reviewed academic journal?

<small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]]</span></small> 18:59, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
:Human rights watch are hardly an "advocacy group" They are highly respected for the work they do. Prentice Hall are an academic publisher, the source is a good one. ] (]) 19:03, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
::You have no idea what you are talking about.
::This is an inept reference, which refers vaguely to "studies". What is the specific study that is the source for this wild claim? What kind of study gives a 70-90% confidence intervals for a proportion?
::What is the sampling frame in the study?
::These are not trick questions! <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]]</span></small> 19:15, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
:::I do not have the study, I only saw the book. The source is citing a study carried out by HRW, who so far as I am aware are very reliable. Would you prefer if the statement were attributed? ] (]) 19:19, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
::::I would prefer that ''you behaves as though'' (19:31, 28 June 2012 (UTC)) you take rape seriously, which means not putting sensational claims on the front page of the most read news source in the world, unless they are based on evidence. As a minor note, I would ask that you take Misplaced Pages seriously, but that is a triviality in comparison. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]]</span></small> 19:24, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
:::::Excuse me? Who the hell do you think you are? I do take violence against women very seriously, please remove your grossly insensitive remark. If you think the source is junk or sensationalist take it to the RSN board. I will not talk to a person who assumes i do not take any form of violence seriously. ] (]) 19:27, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
::::::I don't want you to talk to me. I want you to clean up the mess you made. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]]</span></small> 19:32, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
:::::::I have not made a mess. I have used a source which meets the criteria of ] I have offered to attribute the statement which is quite simply all can be done, I will do it now and be done with you. ] (]) 19:35, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
::::::::The source you have cited does not say "''sexual violence''", it says "''intimate partner violence''". Although I appreciate that you started an article on an important issue that people need to be aware of but please take it a little seriously, there is a difference between sexual violence and intimate partner violence, so you need to present the facts correctly here. --] <sup>]</sup> 20:45, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::I have already removed it. ] (]) 20:49, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

==Difference between rape and intimate partner violence==
This is indeed a good find by SMS. This was a case of source falsification I believe. If what I am understanding is correct, the source had said "]" and not sexual violence. As far as I know, there is a marked difference between intimate partner violence (also known as domestic violence) and sexual violence/rape. Domestic violence is a worldwide phenomenon, and can categorically include things such as psychological, physical and even verbal harm. Labeling these as rape/sexual violence in this context, that too in a DYK, is tantamount to gross misrepresentation. I'm rather taken aback at how this managed to find a place on the main page. ''']''' (]) 13:58, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
:Kevin Spacey's character throwing a dish in American Beauty or Kirstie Allen hitting (or was it shooting?) at Woodie Allen's character in Deconstructing Harry are examples of domestic violence that are not rape. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]]</span></small> 14:23, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
:Yup, intimate partner violence is not restricted to sexual violence, i.e., rape. However, let's not impute bad faith to the editor. I believe it was a mistake - and the article is full of sources that ''are'' talking about rape. Also, the article did not make it to the main page. ] has been reopened. ] (]) 15:40, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
::Yes, Yngvadottir! Please send me your financial information, passwords, and account numbers, so that I may collect an inheritance owed me. I will give you 30% for your troubles. Kindly, <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]]</span></small> 16:19, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
:::I'ma need a piece of that. ] (]) 16:21, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
::::LOL are you both offering to share my debts :-D Doesn't matter anyway, s/he's blocked for a week now, and the road to Hel's realm is paved with good intentions. And stupid mistakes. Meanwhile we have this article . . . ] (]) 16:24, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


== Lead section reads like a opinion ==
The lead section should include only stats and not views of certain people it needs a new rewrite. ] (]) 12:01, 4 March 2018 (UTC)


It is also biased, it doesn’t include the severe penalties for rapists or the fact that Pashtunwali decrees rapists are one of only two types of individuals who are not to be given sanctuary. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 10:25, 16 November 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
==This needs context==
I have removed this, pending discussion:
:''There was international condemnation of former president ] after comments he made during an interview with the ] in 2005. He said "You must understand the environment in Pakistan. This has become a money-making concern. A lot of people say if you want to go abroad and get a visa for Canada or citizenship and be a millionaire, get yourself raped."<ref name=Catherwood>{{cite book|last=Catherwood|first=Christopher|title=Encyclopedia of War Crimes and Genocide|year=2006|publisher=Facts On File|isbn=978-0816060016|coauthors=Leslie Alan Horvitz|page=340}}</ref>''


: Actually I think it is minimizing the role of the Pakistani government of giving immunities to rapists of Christian and Hindu girls. Also, it is not emphasized enough that it is legal in Pakistan for a husband to rape his wife. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 08:16, 29 December 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
*This section was tagged onto the bottom of a paragraph that lists the various types of rapes, and there prevalence.
:It doesn't relate to those matters.


== Definition of two-finger test ==
*What is the '''context''' of the former president's comments?
:It would seem, from the placement of the sentence that the president was saying ''"Anyone who is prepared to be a sex slave can go to Canada and get rich"''.
:I don't think that it what the president meant. But that is what it means, '''in context''' because of the sentence that it has been placed immediately after.


@ {{u|Samarasuma}}
*Was the president trying to explain lies that are told to abducted and abused people?


It seems your good faith addition of definition of ] may not be accurate enough and seems to narrate same illogical public misconception that 'two finger test' can be ok to know if a woman was raped, and you know such notion is not correct and leads to continuation of injustice to women; I hope you can revisit the sentence and present more nuanced information in more accurate way.
*Was the president referring to the fact that Mukhtaran Bibi had become an international celebrity because of her actions, and that many people in Pakistan resent this?
:Was he referring to something else of a similar type?


Thanks and warm regards
*Was the "international condemnation" made about '''this''' comment, which explains the "environment in Pakistan", or something else that he said in the context of the interview?
*Was the condemnation of the president himself, because he made this comment, or was the condemnation of the '''fact''' that it was a money making concern.


⚫ ] (]) 12:25, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
*Whatever he was specifically referring to, needs to be made clear, if the quote is going to be used in the article.


] (]) 01:47, 23 July 2012 (UTC) Ok, I will remove the definition ] (]) 12:51, 17 April 2020 (UTC)


== ] ==
:OK! I have checked out the context of this statement.
: It was promoted by his being questioned about Mukhtaran Bibi.
: I will put it back into the article, with the appropriate explanation.
⚫ ] (]) 02:16, 23 July 2012 (UTC)


Greetings,
==Mukhtaran Bibi==
The lack of explanation about Mukhtaran Bibi in this article is a major problem.
:By saying "The rape of Mukhtaran Bibi", you treat the event of her rape as if she was a well-known person who was publicly raped, so that the whole world immediately knew and was shocked.
:It is like saying "The assassination of Mahatma Gandhi"
:But tt wasn't like that. The ''event'' of her rape meant nothing to anyone, except her and her family.
:It was her '''actions''' after the event that drew the attention of the world to the problem.
⚫ :] (]) 02:16, 23 July 2012 (UTC)


Misplaced Pages has an article ], you are requested to update, expand, copy edit the article. Also you can help the same by adding the article to your watch list.
::The last edit that I just made typifies the fact that this article does not give credit to the action of Mukhtaran Bibi.
::Why was a recent event, 2011, listed at the ''top'' of the historically important cases, above the case that actually drew the problem to notice?
::] (]) 02:22, 23 July 2012 (UTC)


⚫ ] (]) 18:31, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
:::A major aspect of the problem of rape in Pakistan is the official attitude. I have just inserted that part of the case of Mukhtaran Bibi that illustrates the "official attitude".
:::] (]) 02:27, 23 July 2012 (UTC)


== Unreliable source tagged == == useful refs ==


* https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/911437-pushing-back-rape-culture
I have tagged as "unreliable" the statement about the "72 percent" figure of abuse in police custody, attributed to Asma Jahangir via {{cite book|last=Goodwin|first=Jan|title=Price of Honor: Muslim Women Lift the Veil of Silence on the Islamic World|year=2002|publisher=Plume|isbn=978-0452283770|page=51|url=http://books.google.com/books?ei=_bjsT5foIYGj2QWs-93gCg&id=ghjuAAAAMAAJ&dq=Jangir%2C+Price+of+Honor%3A+Muslim+Women+Lift+the+Veil+of+Silence+on+the+Islamic+World.&q=Women%27s+Action+Forum#search_anchor}}. The reason for this tag is twofold:


] (]) 08:12, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
* Goodwin apparently does not give his own source, i.e. the publication in which Jahangir herself has made this claim. This is important because the claim is an ostensibly precise one: if Jahangir gave an exact-sounding figure (72%, rather than, say, 71% or 73%), the only legitimate reason she could have arrived at such a figure is if she did an empirical study – i.e. she investigated a systematic sample of people and 72 was the result she found in her sample. If she did that, it is vital that we should be able to know her methodology (how was the sample obtained; how were the women questioned, etc.) In the absence of this information, we have no way of telling whether Jahangir's claim is itself a reliable source. And, crucially, the very fact that Goodwin fails to provide this information''ipso facto'' disqualifies himself as a reliable source too. No serious academic publication worth its salt would ever cite such a figure without citing its source; ergo, Goodwin is not a serious academic publication.
* The problem is made worse by the fact that Goodwin is also sloppy in his wording. He says that 72% are "physically and sexually abused". What does the "and" mean here? Is he really claiming that 72% is the figure of those who are abused ''both'' sexually and in other physical ways? If that were the case, does that mean the actual figure of victims who are abused in either of the two ways but not both is even higher? Or that every single victim suffers both forms of abuse, but never only one of them? Or does he really mean "or"? Is this the total figure of all forms of abuse combined, and the actual figure of sexual abuse is somewhere lower than that?
We need to get the original source where Jahangir made those statements herself; then we can see. ] ] 11:12, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

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A fact from Rape in Pakistan appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the Did you know column on 23 July 2012 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
  • Did you know... that according to lawyer Asma Jahangir, up to seventy-two percent of women in police custody in Pakistan are physically or sexually abused?
A record of the entry may be seen at Misplaced Pages:Recent additions/2012/July. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Rape in Pakistan: Revision.
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Lead section reads like a opinion

The lead section should include only stats and not views of certain people it needs a new rewrite. KarunArjun (talk) 12:01, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

It is also biased, it doesn’t include the severe penalties for rapists or the fact that Pashtunwali decrees rapists are one of only two types of individuals who are not to be given sanctuary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.97.149.57 (talk) 10:25, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Actually I think it is minimizing the role of the Pakistani government of giving immunities to rapists of Christian and Hindu girls. Also, it is not emphasized enough that it is legal in Pakistan for a husband to rape his wife. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.176.208.170 (talk) 08:16, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Definition of two-finger test

@ Samarasuma

It seems your good faith addition of definition of Two-finger test may not be accurate enough and seems to narrate same illogical public misconception that 'two finger test' can be ok to know if a woman was raped, and you know such notion is not correct and leads to continuation of injustice to women; I hope you can revisit the sentence and present more nuanced information in more accurate way.

Thanks and warm regards

Bookku (talk) 12:25, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Ok, I will remove the definition Samarasuma (talk) 12:51, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Cynthia D. Ritchie

Greetings,

Misplaced Pages has an article Cynthia D. Ritchie, you are requested to update, expand, copy edit the article. Also you can help the same by adding the article to your watch list.

Bookku (talk) 18:31, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

useful refs

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 08:12, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

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