| Revision as of 09:47, 16 December 2012 editGuitar hero on the roof (talk | contribs)439 edits →Replaced 2 people in the collage: new section← Previous edit |
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{{Press |author=Jennifer Senior|title=Are Jews Smarter |org=] |url=http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/culture/features/1478/ |date=October 24, 2005|quote= |accessdate=October 21, 2012 |
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{{Press |author=Jennifer Senior|title=Are Jews Smarter |org=] |url=http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/culture/features/1478/ |date=October 24, 2005|quote= |accessdate=October 21, 2012}} |
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== Recommended revision of the first line == |
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I would like to make a change of the first line, to: "Ashkenazi Jews, also known as Ashkenazic Jews or Ashkenazim (Hebrew: אַשְׁכְּנַזִּים, Ashkenazi Hebrew pronunciation: , singular: , Modern Hebrew: , ; also יְהוּדֵי אַשְׁכֲּנַז Y'hudey Ashkenaz, "The Jews of Ashkenaz"), are the Jews descended from the medieval Jewish communities along the Rhine in Germany from Alsace in the south to the Rhineland in the north, who trace their origins to the Fertile Crescent."] (]) 12:29, 3 November 2012 (UTC) |
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:Yes, it presents a thesis, well-established, as a fact. The ''Loter'' or Rhine-Alsace hypothesis is just that.] (]) 12:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC) |
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:I can agree with your proposal, maybe there should be also some details about the time of origin. Highly specialized books are dealing with this question. Like for example Molecular Photofitting: Predicting Ancestry and Phenotype Using DNA by Tony Nick Frudaki --] (]) 13:08, 3 November 2012 (UTC) |
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:: I would like to propose new edition to the lead: , singular: , Modern Hebrew: , ; also יְהוּדֵי אַשְׁכֲּנַז Y'hudey Ashkenaz, "The Jews of Ashkenaz") are ethnoreligious group which '''likely''' originated in Middle East, during the Bronze Age (from 2000 BC to 700 BC) and was '''probably''' formed as separate Jewish group in the region along the Rhine in Germany from Alsace in the south to the Rhineland in the north during the Middle Age- |
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The term likely and probably I would propose to be included not because there is a lack of RS from population genetics for this claim, as with my knowledge of population genetics I have no doubts regarding this question but because I would like to avoid any long-term dispute.--] (]) 17:03, 4 November 2012 (UTC) |
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I disagree with the idea that concessions should be made to those who want to raise a big stink over it, because it usually just comes from people with a political axe to grind. For instance, the article on Gypsies is rather explicit in placing their origins in South Asia, and it's known with about as much certainty that Ashkenazi Jews ultimately hail from the Levant. Ashkenazi origins, more than any other, are highly politicized so I'm trying to avoid caving into the demands of fanatics. This is an encyclopedia, after all.] (]) 07:52, 5 November 2012 (UTC) |
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::I can accept your opinion because scientifically speaking, you are right. Genetically Ashkenazi Jews do originate from Middle East. If you would agree, I would only keep the term likely in the section of Rhineland. |
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So can we have agreement about this wording: , singular: , Modern Hebrew: , ; also יְהוּדֵי אַשְׁכֲּנַז Y'hudey Ashkenaz, "The Jews of Ashkenaz") are ethnoreligious group which originated in Middle East, during the Bronze Age (from 2000 BC to 700 BC) and was likely formed as separate Jewish group in the region along the Rhine in Germany from Alsace in the south to the Rhineland in the north during the Middle Ages- --] (]) 15:10, 5 November 2012 (UTC) |
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Getting closer, but still a little too muddled in my opinion. I would go with this: , singular: , Modern Hebrew: , ; also יְהוּדֵי אַשְׁכֲּנַז Y'hudey Ashkenaz, "The Jews of Ashkenaz") are an ethnic group who trace their origins to the Middle East, and settled along the Rhine in Germany from Alsace in the south to the Rhineland in the north during the Middle Ages. |
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Thoughts?] (]) 21:39, 5 November 2012 (UTC) |
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Also, does anyone know how to request an article change in semi-protected articles like this one?] (]) 21:42, 5 November 2012 (UTC) |
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:: Just in order to avoid further speculations-which regularly follows "settled along the Rhine in Germany from Alsace in the south to the Rhineland in the north during the Middle Ages." could be challenged based on many different,sometimes non important reasons. If you have reliable source, which can back fully this, I agree to add in this form. If not use this one , this source can back my proposal. The time of the origin maybe needs to be mentioned...anyway all depends on source.--] (]) 22:07, 5 November 2012 (UTC) |
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The word "settled" needs to be included. The current version of the article says that they descend from the medieval Jewish communities in that part of Europe, hence the addendum "settled during the Middle Ages". That source you have there would work. |
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How do I request a change to this article?] (]) 08:24, 6 November 2012 (UTC) |
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Let's try this: , singular: , Modern Hebrew: , ; also יְהוּדֵי אַשְׁכֲּנַז Y'hudey Ashkenaz, "The Jews of Ashkenaz") are an ethnic group who trace their origins to the Levant, and settled along the Rhine in Germany from Alsace in the south to the Rhineland in the north during the early Middle Ages.] (]) 08:24, 6 November 2012 (UTC) |
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:: As I said I agree with your proposal, but for the term "settled" we need references. With the material I have proposed as source I can succefully defend the term "formed" You are free, to go and proceed with your proposal immediately but you have to have RS references in order to be able to keep this long term. I propose to change the lead as soon as possible. Do not forget that Ashkenazi Jews did not settled immediately from Middle East to Rhineland, but went through Roman Empire and became distant Jewish ethnic group only at 8th-9th century. This is why I proposed my wording. However the most important thing is to start with the change, therefor go ahead with it now, with my wording if the task of defending the lead with reliable source, would be on my shoulders, or with your proposal if you have RS for your proposal.--] (]) 11:40, 6 November 2012 (UTC) |
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== Conspiracy theories == |
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I think there should be an additional section to the article titled "conspiracy theories", primarily because Ashkenazi Jews were the principle subject of most if not all of them. These include the Rothschilds, blood libels, the murder of Christ, control of the banks and government institutions, Zionist collaboration with the Nazis, etc etc etc. There's also a paper here about how the Jews who settled in Europe were frequently victims of "Orientalism", and were considered the "Asiatics of Europe", because of their origins in the Middle East. http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~ikalmar/illustex/orijed.intro.htm |
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] (]) 09:25, 18 November 2012 (UTC) |
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:Sources must specifically discuss the subject of the article, which is Ashkenazi Jews. I understand why you are adding this but it's against policy and guidelines. ] (]) 10:07, 21 November 2012 (UTC) |
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== How do you add images to the infobox? == |
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I have 8 more celebrities/famous figures I want to add to the image box, but I don't know how to implement them.] (]) 23:35, 20 November 2012 (UTC) |
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:I will explain you how to do it this evening. Just note that it's better to discuss it first. Here is a link to the discussion: please suggest who you want to add there. ] (]) 10:45, 21 November 2012 (UTC) |
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So here is what we see on Ashkenazo Jews: |
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<pre> |
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|image = |
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<table border=0 align="center"> |
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</table> |
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|caption= 1st row: ] {{·}} ] {{·}} ] {{·}} ] 2nd row: ] {{·}} ] {{·}} ] {{·}} ] |
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</pre> |
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You can see there is a pattern, right? Like its <pre> <td>]</td> </pre> |
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Do you get what I mean? |
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So in each line we have a different picture, and in order o separate between the lines you add: |
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What I do is I simple look at the patern, I copy a part of it: |
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<tr> |
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I add it to the pattern we already have, so we getL |
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</pre> |
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And then in the new line I created I just put new pictures and new names. Did you understand what I explained? Feel free to ask questions! But it's important for you to know: Don't add lines on your own, you might have great ideas, but you will be reverted if you do something people don't like, and if you revert them back you might be blocked. The best thing to do is go to the discussion page and join the existing discussion, saying who you want to add: |
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You said you want to add 8 more people, and I'm sure you thought of great people, but it's too much because then we will have 4 lines of 8 people, when it looks better if you have 2 or 3 lines, so it's better if you suggest 4 people and not 8 people. |
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Also, before doing the edit, as said before, say on the discussion page why you want to add them, wait a bit for the comments, and then do the edit (or ask me to do the edit for you). ] (]) 18:27, 21 November 2012 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 5 July 2024 == |
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I was trying to ask how you upload images from the internet and format them for the image box. Usually, I just find an image and Copy Image Location, and then insert it wherever the image needs to go. That's what I'm having trouble with.] (]) 00:47, 24 November 2012 (UTC) |
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:Sorry for the late response! I'm actually not sure how to do that. There is a link here talking about how to do it: ]. To be honest, I myself didn't do it so I'm not sure about that. ] (]) 11:25, 24 November 2012 (UTC) |
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{{edit semi-protected|Ashkenazi Jews|answered=yes}} |
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== Photo box suggestions == |
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In section "Notable Ashkenazim", add an "and" in the last sentence, making it "Though Ashkenazi Jews have never exceeded 3% of the American population, Jews account for 37% of the winners of the U.S. National Medal of Science, 25% of the American Nobel Prize winners in literature, and 40% of the American Nobel Prize winners in science and economics." ] (]) 04:53, 5 July 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{done}}<!-- Template:ESp --> <p style="color:Orange"><code>]]</code></p> 01:45, 7 July 2024 (UTC) |
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I have implemented my own additions to the photo box in the article. Admittedly, it looks a little messy because I took the photos from their respective Wiki pages, and re-formatted them for the photo template on here, since I cannot upload the photos manually. I would have preferred using a different photo of Ben Stein, for instance. The people I've added are Ben Stein, Anne Frank, Theodor Herzl, Steven Spielberg, Cliff Simon, Brad Garrett, Ben Bernanke, and Eugene Levy. All 8 of these celebrities are of full Ashkenazi Jewish descent.] (]) 22:46, 24 November 2012 (UTC) |
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<s>:Hi :-) I support the inclusion of Anne Frank, Herzl, Spielberg. Really nice! I do have problems with some inclusions: |
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:Ben Stein - Though popular in American, he's not so popular for people outside America. |
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:Cliff Simon - Not a bad actor, but I think there are many, many, many more popular ones then him. |
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:Brad Garrett - Again, not a bad actor but I would say there are many more popular ones. |
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:Eugene Levy - He had a bit of success for a while, but again, for a short time. What would you say if we put ] instead? |
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:I don't mind keeping them, but just think we could find some more influencial people in their places, like Mel Brooks, Jon Stewart, Lev Landau, Anton Rubinstein, Mikhail Botvinnik... and what about the amount of lines? Should we take out some people? What do you think? ] (]) 00:04, 25 November 2012 (UTC) |
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::Botvinniks and Mel Brooks are nice suggestions, but Jon Stewart, though popular in America, is not well known outside America. Landau is a genious but we already have Einstein to represent that area. Rubinstein is great but we already have Mendelssohn to represent that area. I think keeping it 8 is the optimal idea! ] (]) 13:35, 25 November 2012 (UTC) |
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:I think it looks best with 8 people, I don't see why we need to add any more people. Besides, Ben Stein is hated by many people for how he does his job and whose interests he represents. ] (]) 13:35, 25 November 2012 (UTC) |
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== Khazar theory == |
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Don't change the photobox - it took many many months of long discussion between many users for each figure, to come up with present selection. Also, because of WP:BLP concerns, it has been agreed that no living people will be added to the box ] (]) 03:33, 25 November 2012 (UTC) |
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{{hat}} |
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:You can't just decide something will never be changed. That discussion happened a long time ago, and there is no law on Misplaced Pages stating ones a concensus was reached no one can suggest any changes and it will stay like that forever. There is a new disscussion now, with new people saying their opinion, and a new, more acceptable selection being made (not a weird one which doesnt include Sholem Aleichem, Marc Chagall or Spielberg). Besides, every ethnic group has at least few living people, the whole idea is to create an image people will recognize as representatives (and even if no living people can be included, which is not the case because it doesnt make sense, I don't know if you hear of it, but Sholem Aleichem is dead). If you want to influence, great, take part in the discussion. ] (]) 09:16, 25 November 2012 (UTC) |
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<s>The sources I cited for the Khazar theory are a genetic testing company https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/jewish-q/about/results and a study that's in the National Library of Medicine https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3595026/. The author of the study, Eran Elhaik, is an associate professor in the Department of Biology at Lund University in Sweden and he also works for Johns Hopkins University Medical School, one of the most prestigious medical schools in the world. Would Johns Hopkins hire some crackpot? '''Hell''' no! The idea that the Khazar theory (as distinct from the Khazar hypothesis) is a fringe theory is patently absurd. The Khazar hypothesis is fringe because it says that the Ashkenazi Jews are '''exclusively '''descended from the Khazars, which all genetic studies have shown to be false. The Khazar theory says the Ashkenazi Jews are only '''partly''' descended from the Khazars. Not only do other studies besides Elhaik's support the theory, the fact that the Ashkenazi and Sephardic haplogroup Q lineages diverged 3,200 to 5,100 years ago (definitely before the Jews left Israel for Europe and quite possibly before Judaism was even established) is consistent with it. ] (]) 03:52, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</s><small><comments by ] ] of banned user {{user|Ultrabomb}} removed. Per ], all edits of banned users may be removed and reverted on sight regardless of content.''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 00:32, 14 October 2024 (UTC)<!-- Template:Banredac -->></small> |
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:No way we are returning to the old one, it looked bad and the selection was bad. And the no living people thing is, sorry, total crap, and people should be judged by how notable they are and not if they are alive ot dead (besides, it's not like you didn't forget many dead notable people). ] (]) 13:30, 25 November 2012 (UTC)</s> <small>Sockpuppets now blocked.</small> |
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:No. FamilyTreeDNA groups are never a reliable source on Misplaced Pages, certainly not a user-contributed project written by non-experts and vetted not at all, which doesn't even say anything similar to what you want to add. The Elhaik study is widely discredited and ]. It's absolutely a ] study. Elhaik was affiliated as a postdoc with the Department of Mental Health at the School of Public Health, and ''not'' the medical school, genetics or biology department. He may be an associate professor in bioinformatics at Lund University, but that doesn't make his study any more authoritative or worthy of any weight, when contrasted with the extensive body of research that shows the possible Khazar contribution to the Ashkenazi gene pool is negligible, by actual genetics researchers, who generally agree that the majority of Ashkenazi Jews are European and Middle Eastern in their genetic heritage. While it is true that some amount of Khazar ancestry might be found in some populations, that doesn't mean the main article on Ashkenazi Jews should give any credence or airtime to what is fundamentally a discredited theory being pushed by dubious sources and often along with antisemitic conspiracy theories. It should be afforded practically no weight and certainly not any more than it already does, which is covered in the ] article and possibly a bit elsewhere such as ] and ]. This is the main article for Ashkenazi Jews. Elhaik shouldn't be cited here. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 04:17, 13 October 2024 (UTC) |
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We are not having living people because of WP:BLP, as decided by adminstrators here, and also we have to have sources that the people listed are Ashkenazi. We also have a consensus selection. If you want to new photobox, you have to get a new consensus for each swap. ] (]) 23:21, 25 November 2012 (UTC) |
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{{hab}} |
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== RFC 26 November 2024<span class="anchor" id="26 November 2024"></span> == |
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::: And now it turns out that the above users, all agreeing with each other, were sockpuppets. ] (]) 23:18, 29 November 2012 (UTC) |
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<!-- ] 08:01, 31 December 2024 (UTC) -->{{User:ClueBot III/DoNotArchiveUntil|1735632070}} |
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:Where did the initial conversation/consensus take place? I'd appreciate a link.] (]) 10:55, 29 November 2012 (UTC) |
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Should this article have a lead image? If so, which image should be used? ] (]) 07:09, 26 November 2024 (UTC) |
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=== Gallery of suggested images (feel free to suggest others if you think this article should have a lead image) === |
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<gallery> |
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File:Ashkenazim.jpg|'''current image:''' ] image circa 1900-1920 in what appears to be Palestine |
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File:Maurycy Gottlieb - Jews Praying in the Synagogue on Yom Kippur.jpg|'''image used in the ] and ] versions of the article:''' '']'' |
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File:Juden 1881.JPG|'''another image used in many versions of this article:''' map of the distribution of the Jews in Central Europe from Richard Andree, Ethnography of the Jews (1881) |
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</gallery> |
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=== Discussion === |
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Why was my name crossed out? I'm not a sock puppet. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 05:52, 1 December 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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Where is the deadlocked discussion that has made a full-blown thirty-day RfC necessary? See ]. --] 🌹 (]) 08:25, 26 November 2024 (UTC) |
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:Sorry, fixed. ]<sup><small><font color="DarkGreen">]</font></small></sup> 22:43, 9 December 2012 (UTC) |
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:Yes - please read the info in the link Redrose64 has provided. |
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== Orientalism == |
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:Thanks. ] (]) 11:31, 26 November 2024 (UTC) |
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'''Comment''' {{sbb}}, despite the label, it does seem odd to have this picture ''(presumably taken in Mandatory Palestine)'', when the article is about a ''(mainly European?)'' diaspora group ] (]) 17:19, 11 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:Indeed. ] (]) 21:53, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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I took a section from the ] page, entitled Orientalism, and added it to this article because I thought it was relevant. I feel it also has an educational value to those who wish to understand antisemitism, and how it works, better.] (]) 10:50, 29 November 2012 (UTC) |
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'''Comment''' General considerations—In 1920 when this was taken there were some 10,000s of recognizably ethnic Ashkenazim in Mandatory Palestine—far more than there are in all 2024 Europe. The overwhelming majority of modern Ashkenazim (both generally and who wear ethnic clothing) live in Israel and the US, and that's been true since the 1940s. |
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== Replaced 2 people in the collage == |
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Another problem is that the "Ashkenazic" identity only really exists in contrast to "Sephardic"—a picture of 1920s Warsaw wouldn't be normally described as "Ashkenazic" because everyone in it would have thought of themselves as "Polish Jews", prayed using "Polish rite" prayerbooks etc., didn't consider themselves part of a pan-Ashkenazic identity group. The historical exceptions where you found specifically "Ashkenazic" identity are Venice, Amsterdam, London, Mandatory Palestine, where half were Sephardic Jews so the Ashkenazim grouped together. This presents a challenge because until 1945 or so, almost everyone who thought of themselves as specifically "Ashkenazic" necessarily lived far from Ashkenazic cultural centers and was unrepresentative of the median Ashkenazi Jew. |
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Since the Holocaust, physical displacement and cultural contamination from Israel (which is 50/50 Ashkenazic/Sephardic) has meant the death of all sub-Ashkenazic identities in the US, even though 99% of Jews here are Ashkenazic. ] (]) ] (]) 20:28, 11 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{tq|In 1920 when this was taken there were some 10,000s of recognizably ethnic Ashkenazim in Mandatory Palestine—far more than there are in all 2024 Europe.|q=y}} What point are you trying to make in comparing Mandatory Palestine in 1920 with Europe in 2024? Changing the variables of both the time ''and'' place corrupts the comparison. |
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:{{tq|Another problem is that the "Ashkenazic" identity only really exists in contrast to "Sephardic"—a picture of 1920s Warsaw wouldn't be normally described as "Ashkenazic"|q=y}} So should the article not discuss Ashkenazi history until the community came into contact with other Jewish groups? |
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:{{tq|almost everyone who thought of themselves as specifically "Ashkenazic" necessarily lived far from Ashkenazic cultural centers and was unrepresentative of the median Ashkenazi Jew|q=y}} so is this a disapproval of a lead image to represent all Ashkenazi Jews? ] (]) 22:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Bad RFC''', no ]. I see no problem with the lead image though. A better one could be proposed, but it hasn't. Filer the image citing the nonexistent WP:ethnicgallery, and the real policy under ] doesn't actually say not to illustrate an ethnic group with an image, it says not to use a ''gallery'', which is very different. Unless someone has an argument why the image is bad based on an actual policy or guideline, it seems fine and certainly better than ''no image''. I'm open to proposals for a higher quality image on the basis that it's a black and white, kinda shadowy photo. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 22:47, 14 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*:Pincrete pointed out the issue with the current image above. It's not representative. There's also no such image of ]. ] (]) 17:50, 19 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*::I'm not sure I understand the argument. It's a photo of Ashkenazi Jews. It's not the best picture ever and like I said, a better one could be found, but it is a representation of Ashkenazi Jews, so yes it is representative. I think we could find a better photo like one in color and with better focus and contrast, or other aspects of the photo, but as far as I can tell, unless we have some other reason to suspect the people in the photo aren't Ashkenazi Jews, that would be definitionally, representative of Ashkenazi Jews. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 22:40, 23 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Bad RFC''' per the arguments by Andre, but I agree that this image is fine and that an image is desirable, not hard preference regarding a specific outcome. ] (]) 23:22, 18 December 2024 (UTC) |
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=== Discussion of the appropriateness of the RfC itself === |
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For the four editors so far who have chimed in to express their dissatisfaction with the RfC—the objective was to invite a wide community of editors to opine in what is an inherently contentious endeavor: discussing a lead image for an ethnic group. Although I skipped the phase of back-and-forth on this article, there have been robust conversations on lead images for ethnic groups or groups of people elsewhere on Misplaced Pages, as at https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:African_Americans/Archive_23#Should_this_article_have_a_lead_image?, so an RfC felt appropriate. |
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For the sake of organization, I've started this new section for anyone else who would like to give their opinion of the appropriateness of the RfC itself so as not to clog the discussion of the actual RfC question pertaining to the lead image. ] (]) 17:59, 19 December 2024 (UTC) |
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I put Sholem Aleichem instead of van Neumann. Sholem Aleicham is the greatest Yiddish writer ever and it's just weird not to have him in the image. |
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:An appropriate response to the members of the community all chiming in that this is a bad RFC could be to withdraw the RFC so we can have a proper discussion. You "skipped the phase" that is actually the important part. People are open to compromise, but you jumped right to creating a new RFC, which the guidelines advise against. It's also not typical to create a section to segregate out different types of responses "for the sake of organization" on the appropriateness of the RFC, which don't clog the discussion but in this case ''are'' the discussion, or to claim that a discussion on African Americans could serve as the RFCBEFORE on an article about Ashkenazi Jews. Consistency is not a mandate on Misplaced Pages for good reasons, as different things are importantly different. I note that you also modified the RFC prompt after it was already underway. These are all, relatively soft, violations of the guideline. We don't stand on ceremony in general, but you also have exhibited a pattern of starting RFCs without much discussion, in at least one other instance that I can recall. Not every revert needs to start an RFC, there are other ways around this. I'm open to changing the image. However, that doesn't make the RFC or the rationales above valid. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 22:48, 23 December 2024 (UTC) |
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I put Botvinnik intead of Gershvin for two reasons. First of all, Botvinnik represents the Jewish achievments in chess. Second, Gershvin is not known outside America and there are too much Americans in the image already anyway. ] (]) 09:47, 16 December 2012 (UTC) |
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In section "Notable Ashkenazim", add an "and" in the last sentence, making it "Though Ashkenazi Jews have never exceeded 3% of the American population, Jews account for 37% of the winners of the U.S. National Medal of Science, 25% of the American Nobel Prize winners in literature, and 40% of the American Nobel Prize winners in science and economics." Maxyyywaxyyy (talk) 04:53, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
For the four editors so far who have chimed in to express their dissatisfaction with the RfC—the objective was to invite a wide community of editors to opine in what is an inherently contentious endeavor: discussing a lead image for an ethnic group. Although I skipped the phase of back-and-forth on this article, there have been robust conversations on lead images for ethnic groups or groups of people elsewhere on Misplaced Pages, as at https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:African_Americans/Archive_23#Should_this_article_have_a_lead_image?, so an RfC felt appropriate.
For the sake of organization, I've started this new section for anyone else who would like to give their opinion of the appropriateness of the RfC itself so as not to clog the discussion of the actual RfC question pertaining to the lead image. إيان (talk) 17:59, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
,_early_1900s,_Central_Africa,_Democratic_Republic_of_the_Congo,_Pende_people,_wood,_fiber_-_Cleveland_Museum_of_Art_-_DSC08700.JPG){kind=small}
Done 
current image: American Colony image circa 1900-1920 in what appears to be Palestine
image used in the Hebrew and Yiddish versions of the article: Jews Praying in the Synagogue on Yom Kippur
another image used in many versions of this article: map of the distribution of the Jews in Central Europe from Richard Andree, Ethnography of the Jews (1881)
