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== Hello... I believe there's been a misunderstanding. :-/ == | |||
{| class="messagebox standard-talk" style="border: 4px solid #C11B17; background: #fff; line-height:1.5" | |||
|<center>'''Notice:''' I am not exactly what you would call a friendly user. A prolonged period of editing contentious articles has left me jaded and wary of other editors. Those who post on my page should bear that in mind, and come in with a thick skin. You can insult me on here as much as you want (see below), but I will delete all insults directed at other editors. | |||
I'm sorry, there's been a misunderstanding... You were talking of identity and cultural heritage, and the fact that the Ashkenazis (and the proto Ashkenazis) throughout the last 2,000 years, have held the Torah in high regard, and in their Israelite cultural and linguistic heritage, I'm deeply sorry, I have misinterpreted your argument, yes, it's true that the cultural and linguistic heritage among Ashkenazis is with the Israelites, I'm again deeply sorry of the misunderstanding, yes I agree that the stuff about the genetic origins needs to be put in the "genetic studies on Jews" article. Again, I'm deeply sorry. :-( | |||
Also note that I will not tolerate being called a Zionist in a derogatory fashion, or a Mossad agent, or any other racist comments of that nature. If you do so, I will not hesitate to take administrative action against you. | |||
-Guy ] (]) 14:06, 10 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
|}<br /> | |||
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== Response == | ||
Regarding your post on my talk page, Judaism being a religion (and perhaps culture) but not ethnicity/race isn't ''my'' personal opinion. Historian John Weiss explains this in his book ''Ideology of Death: Why the Holocaust Happened in Germany''. He states "The Nazis had researchers working through the war analyzing Jewish blood to try to see what was Jewish about it," and "They were determined to find something different". In the end, they found nothing different. As a matter of fact, no religion is an ethnicity or race. ] (]) 06:48, 14 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
Apologies, I wasn't aware I'd done so. I may have hit rollback accidentally whilst checking my watchlist. ] <small>]</small> 08:42, 17 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
::] As you were one of participants on this subject, take a look on recent changes.--] (]) 08:37, 18 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
Did you look at the link I gave you? In fact, did you look at this article ] (i.e. "nation and ethnoreligious group")? Have you ever asked yourself why the Jewish descent category exists in the first place, as opposed to Christianity and Islam? | |||
:::Sock there blocked. Thanks for the barnstar by the way. ] (]) 19:37, 18 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
Jews are an ethnoreligious group. Christianity and Islam are religious groups. There is a difference.] (]) 17:05, 14 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
== ] == | |||
It's not that I didn't look at pages you linked. Misplaced Pages pages, simply put, can't be used as references for claims. If the creators of the categories thought they were an ethnic group, they were misinformed- people of various ethnicities and heritages celebrate Judaism, many of which have no common ethnic/racial backgrounds at all. Same goes for all other religions. My reference is the book mentioned above. ] (]) 02:54, 16 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
'''Mentorship''' is an arrangement in which one user assists another user, the protégé. Depending on the nature of the mentorship agreement, the mentor may give the protégé advice on more effective editing habits and help the protégé resolve disputes. The purpose of mentorship is to help the protégé adjust to Wikipedian site processes and standards.] (]) 23:54, 19 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
==Disambiguation link notification for March 29== | |||
==Hello== | |||
I would also like to apologizes - as an old timer I sometimes have a short fuses. (just take your time no need to rush Wiki has been here for years.) As for the American Jews I have decided not to get involved as I believe the parameter |related = is its self a huge problem here on Wiki. You will find it hard to link together "ethnically" Jews and Palatinates here - because of there history (]) - this is despite there genetic link to Kurds, Turks and Armenians - all peoples with genetic markers of ancient populations from the ] - see ] this is why the indigenous problem is so big - in genetics it tells us they are all related to a very ancient indigenous population from 30,000 years ago - thus a group of people with there custom's that are less then 3000 years would not be a ] in genetics. ] (]) 00:51, 21 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
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It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these ]. Thanks, ] (]) 08:50, 29 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
Please read that link, and then please stop asking specific people who have a history of taking a certain side in disputes to join ones that you are involved in. If you want uninvolved commentary there are a lot of ways to get it, asking friends to join in is not one of them. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 19:26, 22 December 2012 (UTC)</small> | |||
== CfD nomination of ] == | |||
:I did not know that.] (]) 19:27, 22 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
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''']''' has been nominated for {{#ifeq:|yes|deletion|{{#ifeq:|yes|merging|{{#ifeq:|yes|renaming|deletion, merging, or renaming}}}}}}. You are encouraged to join the ''']''' on the ] page.<!--Template:Cfdnotice2--> ] (]) 17:28, 1 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
== CfD nomination of ] == | |||
== Sockpuppetry == | |||
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''']''' has been nominated for {{#ifeq:|yes|deletion|{{#ifeq:|yes|merging|{{#ifeq:|yes|renaming|deletion, merging, or renaming}}}}}}. You are encouraged to join the ''']''' on the ] page.<!--Template:Cfdnotice2--> ] (]) 17:26, 8 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
== 3-Revert Warning == | |||
Was you? --] ] 02:17, 23 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
Please be aware that you are about to run afoul of the ] if you again revert my edit on ], which would result in your being blocked from editing. I ''assure you'' that there is NO support for your views on this issue among other editors. ] (]) 00:06, 19 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
:No. I haven't touched that page since Ed reverted it.] (]) 02:20, 23 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
:I don't know who that IP address was, but it wasn't me. The first IP was me, because I forgot to log in. Second, I do have support for my views. We've discussed this issue at length before, and it ended in a stalemate.] (]) 00:09, 19 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
::Indeed? That wasn't my question, but fortunately you answered my actual question anyway. --] ] 02:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
:It would also appear that you have a limited understanding of ethnicity. Jews became a people in what is now the Levant, and maintained their identity and culture as Jews despite prolonged sojourn in Europe and other areas (hence the Middle Eastern categories). Logically, the only way to lose that classification would be to completely forfeit your Jewish identity and assimilate. These are facts. If a Pakistani immigrant moves to England, and then to the United States, is he no longer Pakistani? Is he "just a Brit" now? Or is there some statute of limitations I am unaware of?] (]) 00:13, 19 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
==Talkback== | |||
::Trust me, I am thoroughly familiar with Jewish history. You are entirely welcome to put specific sub-cats for people with more recent descent (eg. Iranian, Syrian) into ], but not the entire category. P.S. - Don't try to hide behind anon. IPs -- it's very easy to confirm that these were all ''your'' edits. ] (]) 00:27, 19 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
{{talkback|Malik Shabazz|Stub categories|ts=03:04, 24 December 2012 (UTC)}} | |||
:::There's no statute of limitations on descent. If there is, you'll have to point out where it starts and ends, and provide a credible source for it. Otherwise, your revert is not justified. And I can guarantee you that the last revert was not mine. You can do an IP check if you want. ] (]) 00:41, 19 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
::::By this sort of logic, every single culture/ethnicity category on Misplaced Pages should be placed under the umbrella categories for ''African'' culture/ethnicity, because they ALL originated in Africa. Do you not see how ludicrous that would be?? Just because Jewish history traces back to what is ''now'' called the "Middle East" -- and of course, there was ''no such term'' at the time -- does not mean that it is somehow appropriate to use that as a basis for categorization of current/modern cultures. Again, I assure you that the vast, overwhelming majority of Wiki editors are in agreement with what I am telling you. In all sincerity, please save yourself and me a lot of bother and don't continue to push this fringe view. It is a complete waste of your time and mine. ] (]) 01:03, 19 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
:::::That's an invalid comparison, and also a strawman. Do you know of any ethnic groups/tribes outside of Africa who define themselves as "exiled Africans", speak an African language, celebrate holidays originating in Africa, practice a religion emphasizing spiritual ties to Africa, and trace most of their genetic heritage specifically to Africa, among other examples, who are not defined as African by ethnicity? Unless you do, then it's not comparable to the Jews, who are by definition a Semitic people of the Middle/Near East. None of what I have said is ], unless you believe this is fringe (http://indigenouspeoples.nl/indigenous-peoples/definition-indigenous). | |||
:::::Your "assurances" are pretty much meaningless, especially in light of previous controversies on this topic proving the opposite. I've had this discussion before, and we were unable to achieve consensus in either direction. By removing the categories, you violated consensus on this topic.] (]) 01:16, 19 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
== December 2012 == | |||
Evildoer all human beings trace their genetic ancestry to East Africa, we all share a common ancestry in East Africa less than 200,000 years ago, Ashkenazis simply trace their "recent" (going from a couple of hundred of years to so called deep ancestry thousands of years back) genetic ancestry both to Europe and the Middle East, the average native European ancestry among AJs is 35-55% according to a 2013 study, so some of them are mainly genetically European while others are mainly genetically Middle Eastern, and you can see it, some Ashkenazis look East Med while others look Northern European, and of course there are many diverse looks among Ashkenazis inbetween the 2 extremes I mentioned. As for the Jewish religion, culture and holy language I absolutely agree that they're Middle Eastern/Semitic in origin, that's a no brainer IMO, although Yiddish is mainly Indo European Germanic, but that was the day to day language, the holy language, Hebrew is indeed Afro-Asiatic Semitic. | |||
:I thought you had better sense than to while we were discussing the article in question. I'm disappointed to learn you don't. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub> 06:34, 25 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
P.S much of the Ashkenazi culture originated/developed in Central/Eastern Europe rather than the Middle East ] (]) 14:19, 29 May 2014 (UTC) | |||
== 1RR violation == | |||
:::There was a discussion in the preceding section about edit-warring at ]. I indicated that there ''was'' no edit war. So you decided to start one. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub> 06:41, 25 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
My edits were more than 24 hours apart so they did not violate 1RR. If this is mysterious to you, ] might help (but it may not since it is badly written). In a nutshell, we may only perform one revert in any 24-hour period. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 11:52, 27 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
:::: also makes me wonder whether you're here to contribute to writing an encyclopedia or stir the pot. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub> 06:44, 25 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
You should also read ] which describes the (voluntary) process by which the Middle East section of Misplaced Pages is edited. You made the initial change, I reverted you, then the discussion starts. You don't make a change and expect it to stay until it is discussed. Onus is on the one who wants to include something to justify its inclusion. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 12:02, 27 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
:::::No, those were good faith edits. Please explain to me what you think is wrong with them and I will try to keep it in mind. | |||
==Disambiguation link notification for April 28== | |||
:::::Either way, if it is possible, I would like to block Ubikwit from reading my talk page, posting on it, or viewing my history. I find it hard to collaborate with someone who writes things like.... | |||
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that you've added some links pointing to ]. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the ]{{*}} Join us at the ].</small> | |||
:::::"You obviously have too much time on your hands. Why don't you look for a job, instead of trying to impede progress of the universal consciousness raising exercise in which we're engaged here? There is no established relevance for the date of establishment of the UNPFII in 1993, for starters. Moving right along, the Israeli NGO you have introduced into this conversation would appear to be a nationalistic 'Israeli' organization recognized by the nation state of Israel and so far removed from having any semblance of a status that would be related to the granting of even tacit recognition to 'Israelis' as indigenous that it doesn't merit the electrons expended to display this text. Furthermore, you have not demonstrated a relevant connection between the OFICL and "Jews" with respect to the question of (the recognition of) indigeneity in Palestine (or was that Israel?), so you are again engaged in an act of duplicitous dissimulation; the Mossad would be proud, maybe you should apply, seeing as you need a job. Hey, if you are going to act as a proxy for the Israeli government, you might as well get paid for it, just like those NGO directors, right?! The administrators can determine during arbitration what relevance the definition you have littered this RfC with has or has not.--Ubikwit (talk) 20:19, 17 December 2012 (UTC)Ubikwit:" | |||
:] (] | ]) | |||
:::::That was directed at me, by the way. As you can see, there is virtually no trust or respect between us, so I would like as little to do with him as possible.] (]) 06:51, 25 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
::added links pointing to ], ], ], ], ] and ] | |||
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these ]. Thanks, ] (]) 08:50, 28 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
::::::Other editors—and the general public—can read what's posted on our Talk pages. Please read our ] policy; if you feel Ubikwit is hounding you from article to article by watching your edit history, let me know. | |||
== ANI == | |||
::::::Misplaced Pages is a big place. If the two of you can't voluntarily disengage, I'm sure an involuntary separation can be arranged. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub> 07:01, 25 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
] There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you..] (]) 17:14, 2 May 2014 (UTC) | |||
:::::::I will read it right now, because I do feel that he is harassing me. I have filed complaints against him and his editing conduct in the past, but it went largely ignored by other editors. I am not comfortable at all with someone like that going through my talk page, digging up dirt, and then using it against me in unrelated contexts. I don't know how an involuntary separation would work, but I'm at the point where I'm willing to try anything to force him to treat me and other editors with respect.] (]) 07:14, 25 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
==Disambiguation link notification for May 5== | |||
:::::::::It also appears that Ubikwit has joined in on the edit war. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Settler_colonialism&diff=529691848&oldid=529690456] (]) 07:45, 25 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited ], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page ] (] | ]). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the ]{{*}} Join us at the ].</small> | |||
:::::::::::You are now a banned user thus a 3RR exemptions applies. What might help is talking and seeing how you can improve your interaction and editing habits here rather then spending this time trying to get others in trouble. Not one time in this whole section have you even inquired about how you can change - instead the whole section is about someone else.] (]) | |||
::::::::::::That is totally incorrect. Evildoer187 is blocked, not banned. This is an important distinction, in particular because Ubikwit is not exempt from 3RR. Curious that he hasn't been blocked for it, isn't it? --] ] 16:50, 25 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these ]. Thanks, ] (]) 08:51, 5 May 2014 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::::Talking and improving my interaction with Ubikwit isn't going to change anything. Most users are rational enough that such methods would work. Ubikwit is not one of them. The only way I can see this feud being resolved peacefully is if I just throw up my hands and let him have what he wants, which I am unwilling to do. I am not his babysitter. Such users need to be dealt with in a completely different way i.e. filing a request for comment on his editing conduct, which will be my first order of business when I come back.] (]) 16:57, 25 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
== Topic ban == | |||
::::::::::::::Thank you, deskana. I also believe that Ubikwit should be blocked. I have found some sources that I would like to use for the settler colonialism page, and I will RfC for other editors to come in and voice their opinions.] (]) 17:11, 25 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
I am here to inform you of a topic ban enacted on you via discussion at ] and is listed at ]. The text from the closing admin is as follows. | |||
::::::::::::::::::Still no mention of how to improve your relationship with others or your editing habits. I am afraid this ban - I mean block (as I was corrected above) - will not help. As i can see that the actions of others is still your primary concern. -( ʞɿɐʇ) ɐuɐʞsǝp would it be possible for you to mentor this user as you seem very aware of our polices? ] (]) 17:44, 25 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
<blockquote> | |||
::::::::::::::::::::That actually isn't a bad idea, deskana mentoring me. Needless to say, one thing I already know that I need to change is my anger problems. Misplaced Pages can be a frustrating experience, so I could use some techniques to keep my temper in check.] (]) 17:50, 25 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
"By the consensus of the Misplaced Pages community, Evildoer187 is ] from articles dealing with Judaism. The topic ban is indefinite, however if the editor's editing is issueless after six months an appeal might well be profitable. -{{user|The Bushranger}} " | |||
There are hundreds of policy and guideline pages. However, if you start out by following 8 simple rules, the rest should come naturally....see the essay ]...also our basic policies and guidelines ]. You seem very willing to help the project in your own way - however we as editors need to understand that this is ]. As you can see above on my mistake about being bannned vs blocked even oldtimers like me make mistakes and have to confront the truth. Have you seen ] there you will find other editors that I believe have the same interest as you and have joined together for the purpose of helping each-other and the related articles. ] (]) 19:17, 25 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
</blockquote> | |||
Thanks, <span style= "font:Century Gothic; font-weight: bold;">]</span><sup>]</sup> 07:52, 7 May 2014 (UTC) | |||
:::::Sounds like a plan.] (]) 05:10, 26 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
:Ahhh, my greatest apologies, I got distracted halfway through working and forgot to notify you here. Thanks to TheMesquito for fixing that and a {{tl|trout}} to myself. This is the consensus from the discussion, yes. - ] <sub>]</sub> 08:04, 7 May 2014 (UTC) | |||
== Adoption == | |||
::::::::::By the way Malik, it appears that someone has a message for you in the section above.] (]) 12:46, 25 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
] Hello, I'm ]. I wanted to let you know that I removed the "seeking adoption" userbox from ], because you haven't been active for at least a month. When you come back to Misplaced Pages, feel free to add the userbox back with the code <nowiki>{{Adopt me}}</nowiki>. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on ]. Thanks!''Thanks, '']<sup>]</sup> 16:10, 8 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
(unindent) I could not commit to being a mentor due to not really knowing what I'm doing (both on- and off-wiki) from one day to the next. However, I would be happy to answer any questions Evildoer (or any other user) might have regarding ''conduct'' issues. I do not involve myself with the content issues in areas that I deal with conduct issues, as this keeps me so clueless about the topic matter that I'm actually incapable of being biased since I have no idea what anyone's even talking about. --] ] 21:36, 25 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
== |
== Request for comment == | ||
As someone who has edited the article ] this year, I am seeking your input on a to remove a reference to epicanthic eyefolds. This topic has prompted discussion in , and most recently in . | |||
Hi Evildoer187. Please read ]. If you have any questions, you may leave them here or on my Talk page. Thank you. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub> 04:29, 27 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
There's a fine line between being ] and subverting ]. Given the history of this topic, I'm hoping that a robust discussion, for the record, would improve the article whether this reference stays or goes. ] (]) 13:54, 9 August 2014 (UTC) | |||
== ] == | |||
== Google books == | |||
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You may find more scholarly references at Google books - were you can see history on the authors and publishing companies. We have a tool to make the refs for you see - - Coverts bare url into {{tl|cite book}} format. We also have ....{{Find sources 3}} ] (]) 20:32, 27 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
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== FYI == | ||
{{talkback|Malik Shabazz|Colonialism|ts=07:01, 28 December 2012 (UTC)}} | |||
Somebody re-opened an old discussion in which you took part, and you are therefore cordially invited to partake in the discussion at ]. ] (]) 13:24, 25 September 2016 (UTC) | |||
==Talkback== | |||
{{talkback|Shrike|ts=19:21, 29 December 2012 (UTC)}} | |||
] (])/] 19:21, 29 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
== |
== FYI == | ||
{{you've got mail|subject=|ts=19:22, 29 December 2012 (UTC)}} | |||
] (])/] 19:22, 29 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
:This may be usefull --] (])/] 13:59, 30 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
Somebody re-opened an old discussion in which you took part, and you are therefore cordially invited to partake in the discussion at ]. ] (]) 13:25, 25 September 2016 (UTC) | |||
::You have my gratitude.] (]) 15:21, 30 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
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Hi. The ] has recently started, based on the UK/Ireland ] and ]. The idea is not to record every minor edit, but to create a momentum to motivate editors to produce good content improvements and creations and inspire people to work on more countries than they might otherwise work on. There's also the possibility of establishing smaller country or regional challenges for places like South East Asia, Japan/China or India etc, much like ]. For this to really work we need diversity and exciting content and editors from a broad range of countries regularly contributing. At some stage we hope to run some contests to benefit Asian content, a destubathon perhaps, aimed at reducing the stub count would be a good place to start, based on the current ] which has produced near 200 articles in just three days. If you would like to see this happening for Asia, and see potential in this attracting more interest and editors for the country/countries you work on please sign up and being contributing to the challenge! This is a way we can target every country of Asia, and steadily vastly improve the encyclopedia. We need numbers to make this work so consider signing up as a participant! Thank you. --]<sup>]</sup><sub>]</sub> 02:01, 20 October 2016 (UTC) | |||
==Ashkenazi Jews== | |||
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Why are you removing the European categories from this page, ]. Ashkenazi Jews and Ashkenazi Judaism, as an ethnicity and as a minhag, originated in Europe. Ashkenaz literally refers to Germany. I suppose that a convert to Judaism could be Ashkenazi by minhag without being of European heritage, but otherwise almost all Ashkenazi Jews in the USA can trace their heritage back to Europe (and that includes most black Ashkenazi Jews and other Ashkenazi Jews of color). Ashkenazi Jewish culture formed in Europe and is still heavily derived from European-Jewish culture. I can't think of any reason to remove these categories, other than some archaic race-science idea that Jews are inherently non-European on account of ancient Levantine origins. I see that the "Middle Eastern" category remains, despite the fact that few Ashkenazi Jews are descended from modern Middle Eastern origins and the vast majority are descended from modern European origins. I'm not proposing we remove the Middle Eastern category, but to leave that category while removing the European one strikes me as bizarre. ] (]) 23:52, 13 April 2019 (UTC) | |||
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==Talkback== | |||
{{talkback|Malik Shabazz|Colonialism article revisited|ts=20:07, 1 January 2013 (UTC)}} | |||
== Ancestry == | |||
Please don't take this personally, but I'm just curious, because the prose on your userpage seems to contradict your userbox. Are you of Jewish ancestry, Arab ancestry, or both? -- ''']]''' <big>]</big> 20:42, 1 January 2013 (UTC) | |||
:Mizrahi Jewish ancestry. So yes, I am both.] (]) 20:52, 1 January 2013 (UTC) | |||
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== Claims Jews are not an ethnic group == | |||
Hi! I went on the ] page and saw that on the collage they put Einstein and Marx, who were obviously not German. I opened a discussion on the topic on the talk page, and I got a bunch of Germans saying Jews are not an ethnic group but a religion. Could you join the discussion and help explain them that Jews are an ethnic group and Einstein (who identified as a Jew) and Marx are Jewish. | |||
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I guess Germans have a thing for trying to make the Jewish ethnicity not exist. ] (]) 18:44, 5 January 2013 (UTC) | |||
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Latest revision as of 06:41, 22 April 2022
Hello... I believe there's been a misunderstanding. :-/
I'm sorry, there's been a misunderstanding... You were talking of identity and cultural heritage, and the fact that the Ashkenazis (and the proto Ashkenazis) throughout the last 2,000 years, have held the Torah in high regard, and in their Israelite cultural and linguistic heritage, I'm deeply sorry, I have misinterpreted your argument, yes, it's true that the cultural and linguistic heritage among Ashkenazis is with the Israelites, I'm again deeply sorry of the misunderstanding, yes I agree that the stuff about the genetic origins needs to be put in the "genetic studies on Jews" article. Again, I'm deeply sorry. :-( -Guy 84.111.196.56 (talk) 14:06, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
Response
Regarding your post on my talk page, Judaism being a religion (and perhaps culture) but not ethnicity/race isn't my personal opinion. Historian John Weiss explains this in his book Ideology of Death: Why the Holocaust Happened in Germany. He states "The Nazis had researchers working through the war analyzing Jewish blood to try to see what was Jewish about it," and "They were determined to find something different". In the end, they found nothing different. As a matter of fact, no religion is an ethnicity or race. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 06:48, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
Did you look at the link I gave you? In fact, did you look at this article Jews (i.e. "nation and ethnoreligious group")? Have you ever asked yourself why the Jewish descent category exists in the first place, as opposed to Christianity and Islam?
Jews are an ethnoreligious group. Christianity and Islam are religious groups. There is a difference.Evildoer187 (talk) 17:05, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
It's not that I didn't look at pages you linked. Misplaced Pages pages, simply put, can't be used as references for claims. If the creators of the categories thought they were an ethnic group, they were misinformed- people of various ethnicities and heritages celebrate Judaism, many of which have no common ethnic/racial backgrounds at all. Same goes for all other religions. My reference is the book mentioned above. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 02:54, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
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CfD nomination of Category:Holy Land during Byzantine rule
Category:Holy Land during Byzantine rule has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. You are encouraged to join the discussion on the Categories for discussion page. GreyShark (dibra) 17:28, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
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3-Revert Warning
Please be aware that you are about to run afoul of the 3-Revert rule if you again revert my edit on Category:Jewish American culture, which would result in your being blocked from editing. I assure you that there is NO support for your views on this issue among other editors. Cgingold (talk) 00:06, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
- I don't know who that IP address was, but it wasn't me. The first IP was me, because I forgot to log in. Second, I do have support for my views. We've discussed this issue at length before, and it ended in a stalemate.Evildoer187 (talk) 00:09, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
- It would also appear that you have a limited understanding of ethnicity. Jews became a people in what is now the Levant, and maintained their identity and culture as Jews despite prolonged sojourn in Europe and other areas (hence the Middle Eastern categories). Logically, the only way to lose that classification would be to completely forfeit your Jewish identity and assimilate. These are facts. If a Pakistani immigrant moves to England, and then to the United States, is he no longer Pakistani? Is he "just a Brit" now? Or is there some statute of limitations I am unaware of?Evildoer187 (talk) 00:13, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
- Trust me, I am thoroughly familiar with Jewish history. You are entirely welcome to put specific sub-cats for people with more recent descent (eg. Iranian, Syrian) into Category:Middle Eastern American culture, but not the entire category. P.S. - Don't try to hide behind anon. IPs -- it's very easy to confirm that these were all your edits. Cgingold (talk) 00:27, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
- There's no statute of limitations on descent. If there is, you'll have to point out where it starts and ends, and provide a credible source for it. Otherwise, your revert is not justified. And I can guarantee you that the last revert was not mine. You can do an IP check if you want. Evildoer187 (talk) 00:41, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
- By this sort of logic, every single culture/ethnicity category on Misplaced Pages should be placed under the umbrella categories for African culture/ethnicity, because they ALL originated in Africa. Do you not see how ludicrous that would be?? Just because Jewish history traces back to what is now called the "Middle East" -- and of course, there was no such term at the time -- does not mean that it is somehow appropriate to use that as a basis for categorization of current/modern cultures. Again, I assure you that the vast, overwhelming majority of Wiki editors are in agreement with what I am telling you. In all sincerity, please save yourself and me a lot of bother and don't continue to push this fringe view. It is a complete waste of your time and mine. Cgingold (talk) 01:03, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
- That's an invalid comparison, and also a strawman. Do you know of any ethnic groups/tribes outside of Africa who define themselves as "exiled Africans", speak an African language, celebrate holidays originating in Africa, practice a religion emphasizing spiritual ties to Africa, and trace most of their genetic heritage specifically to Africa, among other examples, who are not defined as African by ethnicity? Unless you do, then it's not comparable to the Jews, who are by definition a Semitic people of the Middle/Near East. None of what I have said is WP:FRINGE, unless you believe this is fringe (http://indigenouspeoples.nl/indigenous-peoples/definition-indigenous).
- By this sort of logic, every single culture/ethnicity category on Misplaced Pages should be placed under the umbrella categories for African culture/ethnicity, because they ALL originated in Africa. Do you not see how ludicrous that would be?? Just because Jewish history traces back to what is now called the "Middle East" -- and of course, there was no such term at the time -- does not mean that it is somehow appropriate to use that as a basis for categorization of current/modern cultures. Again, I assure you that the vast, overwhelming majority of Wiki editors are in agreement with what I am telling you. In all sincerity, please save yourself and me a lot of bother and don't continue to push this fringe view. It is a complete waste of your time and mine. Cgingold (talk) 01:03, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
- There's no statute of limitations on descent. If there is, you'll have to point out where it starts and ends, and provide a credible source for it. Otherwise, your revert is not justified. And I can guarantee you that the last revert was not mine. You can do an IP check if you want. Evildoer187 (talk) 00:41, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
- Trust me, I am thoroughly familiar with Jewish history. You are entirely welcome to put specific sub-cats for people with more recent descent (eg. Iranian, Syrian) into Category:Middle Eastern American culture, but not the entire category. P.S. - Don't try to hide behind anon. IPs -- it's very easy to confirm that these were all your edits. Cgingold (talk) 00:27, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
- Your "assurances" are pretty much meaningless, especially in light of previous controversies on this topic proving the opposite. I've had this discussion before, and we were unable to achieve consensus in either direction. By removing the categories, you violated consensus on this topic.Evildoer187 (talk) 01:16, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
Evildoer all human beings trace their genetic ancestry to East Africa, we all share a common ancestry in East Africa less than 200,000 years ago, Ashkenazis simply trace their "recent" (going from a couple of hundred of years to so called deep ancestry thousands of years back) genetic ancestry both to Europe and the Middle East, the average native European ancestry among AJs is 35-55% according to a 2013 study, so some of them are mainly genetically European while others are mainly genetically Middle Eastern, and you can see it, some Ashkenazis look East Med while others look Northern European, and of course there are many diverse looks among Ashkenazis inbetween the 2 extremes I mentioned. As for the Jewish religion, culture and holy language I absolutely agree that they're Middle Eastern/Semitic in origin, that's a no brainer IMO, although Yiddish is mainly Indo European Germanic, but that was the day to day language, the holy language, Hebrew is indeed Afro-Asiatic Semitic.
P.S much of the Ashkenazi culture originated/developed in Central/Eastern Europe rather than the Middle East Guy355 (talk) 14:19, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
1RR violation
My edits were more than 24 hours apart so they did not violate 1RR. If this is mysterious to you, WP:EDITWAR might help (but it may not since it is badly written). In a nutshell, we may only perform one revert in any 24-hour period. Zero 11:52, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
You should also read WP:BRD which describes the (voluntary) process by which the Middle East section of Misplaced Pages is edited. You made the initial change, I reverted you, then the discussion starts. You don't make a change and expect it to stay until it is discussed. Onus is on the one who wants to include something to justify its inclusion. Zero 12:02, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
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ANI
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"By the consensus of the Misplaced Pages community, Evildoer187 is topic-banned from articles dealing with Judaism. The topic ban is indefinite, however if the editor's editing is issueless after six months an appeal might well be profitable. -The Bushranger (talk · contribs) "
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Request for comment
As someone who has edited the article Asian American this year, I am seeking your input on a proposed change to remove a reference to epicanthic eyefolds. This topic has prompted discussion in 2009, 2010 and most recently in 2013.
There's a fine line between being WP:BOLD and subverting WP:CONSENSUS. Given the history of this topic, I'm hoping that a robust discussion, for the record, would improve the article whether this reference stays or goes. Ishu (talk) 13:54, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
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FYI
Somebody re-opened an old discussion in which you took part, and you are therefore cordially invited to partake in the discussion at Category_talk:People_of_Jewish_descent#Middle_East_category_Rfc. Debresser (talk) 13:24, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
FYI
Somebody re-opened an old discussion in which you took part, and you are therefore cordially invited to partake in the discussion at Category_talk:People_of_Jewish_descent#Middle_East_category_Rfc. Debresser (talk) 13:25, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
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Ashkenazi Jews
Why are you removing the European categories from this page, Category:Ashkenazi Jewish culture in the United States. Ashkenazi Jews and Ashkenazi Judaism, as an ethnicity and as a minhag, originated in Europe. Ashkenaz literally refers to Germany. I suppose that a convert to Judaism could be Ashkenazi by minhag without being of European heritage, but otherwise almost all Ashkenazi Jews in the USA can trace their heritage back to Europe (and that includes most black Ashkenazi Jews and other Ashkenazi Jews of color). Ashkenazi Jewish culture formed in Europe and is still heavily derived from European-Jewish culture. I can't think of any reason to remove these categories, other than some archaic race-science idea that Jews are inherently non-European on account of ancient Levantine origins. I see that the "Middle Eastern" category remains, despite the fact that few Ashkenazi Jews are descended from modern Middle Eastern origins and the vast majority are descended from modern European origins. I'm not proposing we remove the Middle Eastern category, but to leave that category while removing the European one strikes me as bizarre. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 23:52, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
Happy Passover!
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