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==PerspicazHistorian==
== Fyunck(click) ==
{{hat|{{u|PerspicazHistorian}} is blocked indefinitely from mainspace. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 03:34, 9 January 2025 (UTC) }}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning PerspicazHistorian===
{{hat|1=The request is dismissed as frivolous. The user who made it, {{user|SMcCandlish}}, is topic-banned (per ]) for one month from everything related to the ]. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 18:01, 12 March 2013 (UTC)}}
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|NXcrypto}} 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
===Request concerning Fyunck(click)===

; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : <font face="Trebuchet MS">''']''' &nbsp;<span style="white-space:nowrap;">] ɖ<sup><big>⊝</big></sup>כ<sup>⊙</sup>þ </span> <small>]</small></font> 19:06, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|PerspicazHistorian}}<p>{{ds/log|PerspicazHistorian}}</p>


; User against whom enforcement is requested : <s>{{userlinks|Fyunck(click)}}</s>
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> <!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
*{{strong|Withdrawn:}} I'm formally withdrawing this AE request, since no one thinks the recent evidence is actionable, and the other evidence is seen as too old to be useful. I also grow weary of being accused of bad faith. — <font face="Trebuchet MS">''']''' &nbsp;<span style="white-space:nowrap;">] ɖ<sup><big>⊝</big></sup>כ<sup>⊙</sup>þ </span> <small>]</small></font> 06:07, 11 March 2013 (UTC)


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] and ]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> <!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


{{collapse top|Diffs &ndash; no longer relevant, since request was rescinded.}}
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. --> <!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of ] (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead.
# Re-re-re-pushing an anti-diacritics agenda yet again, at ], with comment difficult to interpret except as jingoistic attack on non-native English speakers categorically, a ] violation.<ins> <ins>It relates strongly to posts from about a year ago:</ins>
# again categorically hostile toward non-native English speakers. Personalization of style/title disputes, including unsupported accusations of ]ing by Swedish editors generallyl. # - tag bombed the highly vetted ] article without any discussion or reason
#My-way-or-the-highway regarding his interpretation of policy as anti-diacritics. # - attributing castes to people withhout any sources
# that same day, against an admin critical of anti-diacritics campaigning.</ins> # - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting
# - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources

# - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) :
# - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "{{tq|This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP.}}"
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. -->
#Not required, since ] has a prominent ] warning atop it. But has been warned anyway:
#Warned on by {{user|HandsomeFella}} for editwarring about diacritics. Fyunck(click) reacted with .
#Effectively warned on in November 2012 a ] report against someone else topic-banned for diacritics editwarring.<ins>
#, ignored, about bucking consensus in a diacritics-related ].
# for editwarring over diacritics. Etc., etc.</ins>


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
*Already 2 blocks in last 4 months for edit warring.
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : ; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- Add any further comment here -->
The statement at issue is: It seems to be a violation of ]'s "personalizing style or title disputes" prohibition. While it ] as a poorly worded concession that Fyunck(click) recognizes per ] that diacritics are valid in article titles and text, and is thus is announcing he'll ], this is unfortunately clearly not actually the case; it's a condemnatory "there goes the neighborhood"-style complaint; the statement is juxtaposed in the same post with an array of rehashed anti-diacritics arguments, so it is certainly not any such concession. — <font face="Trebuchet MS">''']''' &nbsp;<span style="white-space:nowrap;">] ɖ<sup><big>⊝</big></sup>כ<sup>⊙</sup>þ </span> <small>]</small></font> 19:06, 7 March 2013 (UTC) <ins>Evidence added back after Sandstein deleted it; other material trimmed to make "room" for it. — <font face="Trebuchet MS">''']''' &nbsp;<span style="white-space:nowrap;">] ɖ<sup><big>⊝</big></sup>כ<sup>⊙</sup>þ </span> <small>]</small></font> 09:55, 8 March 2013 (UTC)</ins>

; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
by SMcCandlish.
{{collapse bottom}}

;;Followups:
{{collapse top|title=Older and/or moot responses.}}
Sandstein, I don't have any interest in playing your ]ish "I personally declare your AE request meaningless now because I shortened it myself to no longer make sense" ]. Why you personally feel compelled to respond to any request here that has anything to do with MOS is, well, let's just call it an interesting question. I guess Fyunck(click) gets a free pass this time. <shrug> Maybe I shouldn't care, since I"m not Swedish. Oh, never mind; you don't even know what that refers to, since {{em|you deleted the evidence}}. <sigh> Actually, I added the evidence back in and trimmed the commentary about it; I guess I shouldn't theorize about why you didn't do that yourself instead of cutting out the part that matters. Hopefully someone uninvolved in MOS-bashing will take note of this request and actually act on it, other than by censoring it to be meaningless. — <font face="Trebuchet MS">''']''' &nbsp;<span style="white-space:nowrap;">] ɖ<sup><big>⊝</big></sup>כ<sup>⊙</sup>þ </span> <small>]</small></font> 09:55, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

'''Update (in response to Joy asking):''' I think many of you are missing {{em|why}} the more recent Fyunck(click) statement, the one at actual issue here as a current AE problem, is objectionable. It is {{em|not}} a neutral observation, it's a dismissive/denigrating one that can be mistaken as neutral but only if its anti-diacritics context is ignored, and which mirrors a more clearly combatively-expressed sentiment I've quoted Fyunck(click) posting a year ago (the one especially targeting Swedes), {{em|and}} which is part of a generally ]ish stance on this style "issue". This AE request is not frivolous, and not made in bad faith, it's simply subtle/nuanced, and made on the basis of knowledge of Fyunck(click)'s prior problematic behavior on the topic. If the request is {{em|too}} nuanced, fine; just close the request with no action. There is no need for anyone to resort to threats of a topic ban against {{em|me}}, when I'm not in fact engaged in any editwarring, personal attacks, canvassing, or anything else problematic with regard to MOS/AT. I'm actually doing very productive MOS-related editing lately, with no disputation at all, e.g. at ]. Censorship is a crude hammer, and not every request here that fails to raise an issue AE admins collectively care to act on is a nail to be hit with it. I.e., "don't shoot the messenger." <small>(PS: I have not made any claim that Sandstein is ] with Fyunck(click). Rather, he is involved in an active, unresolved dispute with me at ] that directly relates to him, me, MOS, and AE; his commenting as if an uninvolved admin, always with demands for sanctions against me, instead of simply as an editor with an opinion, on this request, and on the AEs involving me in Feb., are blatant conflicts of administrative interest.)</small> — <font face="Trebuchet MS">''']''' &nbsp;<span style="white-space:nowrap;">] ɖ<sup><big>⊝</big></sup>כ<sup>⊙</sup>þ </span> <small>]</small></font> 13:31, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

'''Re-response to Joy''': My initial opinion was that ARBATC's personalization-of-disputes clause applies to Fyunck(click)'s recent comment because of the pattern it seems to me to be a part of; AE regulars haven't agreed; the end. A "boomerang" block or ban being contemplated against me &ndash; perhaps solely because I have a clean block log despite rubbing certain people the wrong way &ndash; would be 100% punitive and just overkill. I realize you didn't say you were necessarily advocating such action yourself. However, I don't have a "grudge" against Fyunck(click) &ndash; we've had little interaction, and I did not bring him to AN/ANI, rather LittleBenW dragged Fyunck(click) into LittleBenW's own case there, which is when I noticed what I characterize as an anti-foreigner as well as anti-diacritics pattern, habitually overgeneralizing and condemnatory with regard to editors who aren't native English speakers and/or those who favor appropriate use of diacritics in article titles (he generally treats both kinds of editors as synonymous, a fallacious debate tactic), after being warned and even blocked for disruptive editing of one kind or another over diacritics. I'm being told it doesn't actually rise to AE level. Ergo, this case can simply be closed without any further fanfare. Being {{em|incorrect}} in my interpretation of ARBATC and its application in this instance is not "abusing" WP:AE, it's simply being incorrect. See also SarekOfVulcan's prior AE against me over my opposition to someone's RFA after they ranted against MOS twice in their opening RFA statement; no one took that AE seriously at all except maybe Sandstein, meanwhile various others questioned its faith and bandied about terms like "boomerang" against Sarek, but it closed with no action against any party. That was fine, and it's a good idea here, too. "Abusing" is the wrong verb tense anyway: It's not like I'm actively agitating for some kind of block or ban against Fyunck(click); even when filing this request {{em|I asked for there not to be one}}, only a warning against making anti-foreigner posts when going on about diacritics. A finding that I {{em|had abused}} (past tense) AE would be both incorrect and stale anyway. AE doesn't have any supposed block/ban-worthy bad faith behavior on my part to make some enforcement point about. — <font face="Trebuchet MS">''']''' &nbsp;<span style="white-space:nowrap;">] ɖ<sup><big>⊝</big></sup>כ<sup>⊙</sup>þ </span> <small>]</small></font> 00:32, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

'''@LittleBenW''', re: "fraudulent, or malicious attack" &ndash; THat's three clear ] {{em|by you}} against me in an MOS-related dispute, which is thus a patent violation of the ARBATC "personalization of MOS/AT disputes" prohibition, if it can be applied to an AE discussion, which Sandstein and some others insist that it can. While "frivolous" is a matter of opinion about the merits of the AE request I brought, "fraudulent" is a legal claim that isn't applicable here (this is the second time you've made unprovable, nonsense legal accusations against me, and you were almost indef-blocked for making a legal threat last time, remember?); "malicious" is undeniably a ] accusation (not just assumption); and "attack" is a claim of ] violation, but no one has actually demonstrated any such attack. Simply filing an AE request because the latest post in a pattern seemed to violate ARBATC isn't an "attack", it's a request for administrative enforcement of ARBCOM remedies, if they're applicable. A determination that they're not doesn't magically convert the request into an "attack". — <font face="Trebuchet MS">''']''' &nbsp;<span style="white-space:nowrap;">] ɖ<sup><big>⊝</big></sup>כ<sup>⊙</sup>þ </span> <small>]</small></font> 06:07, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

'''@In Ictu Oculi''': My now-rescinded request wasn't actually malformed, as ] is written generically about style/titles disputes, not the specifics of the ARBATC case, for better or worse. Otherwise I would not have thought it applied, SarekOfVulcan would not have tried to apply it against my comments at RFA a month or so back, and so on. Whether intended that way or not, ARBATC's being interpreted broadly, not narrowly. — <font face="Trebuchet MS">''']''' &nbsp;<span style="white-space:nowrap;">] ɖ<sup><big>⊝</big></sup>כ<sup>⊙</sup>þ </span> <small>]</small></font> 23:26, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
{{collapse bottom}}


I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
'''@Fyunck(click)''': I have rescinded this request because the AE admin respondents have concluded that the case is weak. Maybe I even really am flat-out wrong about your posts, too, as you say; if time shows this to be the case, I will owe you an apology. I declined to respond to your rebuttal details because I know AE admins can draw their own conclusions from the diffs (note they're not agreeing with you, only finding that the old diffs are too old and the newer one not actionable), and I'm trying to keep it short, not because I couldn't formulate a response. In reply to your question, I did not examine your editing "ashtray" closely at all to find the evidence I did find, I just looked at your talk page and recent archives of it; that is not in any way unusual or harassing. — <font face="Trebuchet MS">''']''' &nbsp;<span style="white-space:nowrap;">] ɖ<sup><big>⊝</big></sup>כ<sup>⊙</sup>þ </span> <small>]</small></font> 06:07, 11 March 2013 (UTC)


:While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to ]. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
'''@Mr. Stradivarius''' &ndash; Three important points:
#An MOS topic ban against me even for one month is not justified or justifiable simply because my interpretation of ARBATC may not have been entirely correct, or because my civility 4 or 5 months ago &ndash; long before any issue was raised here or in any other dispute resolution forum or noticeboard about it &ndash; may have lapsed, or it is imagined that I have a "grudge" against an editor I don't interact with much at all. Such a ban would also directly interfere with significant actual work I'm doing here, e.g. the ] proposal, which is nearing completion, and the ] proposal which is just getting started. Such a ban or a block would serve no remedy/prevention function at all, and be nothing but punitive, which is against ARBCOM's purpose and rules.
#Sandstein's "it may just mean that we'll be back here faster" response to you is the second time he's directly ] me by prognostication that firmly ], in virtually identical wording. Whether he considers himself topically invested enough in MOS disputes to be ] is mooted by his self-evident, continual personal hostility toward me in particular; he's INVOLVED in a much more serious (and conduct-unbecoming) way than with regard to simple subject matter, and does not seem to understand that ].
#if AE calls my relying on 2012 Fyunck(click) diffs "frivolous", grudge-bearing, or otherwise inappropriate or worthless, despite my statement of their pattern-establishment relevance, then Sandstein trying to use his interpretation of some out-of-context post of mine from November 2012 (provided by LittleBenW, violating his own topic ban in the process) to show what he feels is a pattern and then use that as a basis for blocking or banning me is far worse, and Sandstein certainly knows better. As Joy noted, "not even from November 2012 is relevant" when I provided one. Goose, gander. If I were to receive ] sanctions, Sandstein surely would have to as well, for abusing AE to pursue a grudge, including incivilly personalizing MOS-related disputes, and using an "evidence that's too old and thus is frivolous even though you think it's part of a pattern" approach &ndash; i.e. what I stand accused of myself. WP:AE cannot seriously even consider permitting hypocrisy of such magnitude and blatantness, and editor faith in ARBCOM and adminship is badly shaken enough already, don't you think? — <font face="Trebuchet MS">''']''' &nbsp;<span style="white-space:nowrap;">] ɖ<sup><big>⊝</big></sup>כ<sup>⊙</sup>þ </span> <small>]</small></font> 06:07, 11 March 2013 (UTC)


*PerspicazHistorian is still using sources (see ]) and wishing to move ] to ] which is a blatant POV. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 04:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
'''@Joy ''': I am already "dissuaded" from coming here again any time soon, if ever. I hate this. Supposing that a short-term topic ban will have a deterrent effect on my making accusations here (or at ANI, etc.) without adequate proof also supposes that I'm crazy and would like nothing better than to keep coming back here. :-) I have a clean block log for a reason (and after 80K+ edits over 7+ years it's virtually impossible not to make some mistakes, as I admit I've made here). Regarding LittleBenW, it's not part of some "pattern". As I said in a followup note at ANI, I had {{em|not}} initially intended to raise any ANI issue with LittleBenW's attacks against me here (where he is not a party but someone who followed me here to make trouble); if I had some "grudge", I would have gone to ANI immediately, not 2 days or so after he started up again here. But even after Sandstein and you both warned him anew, he {{em|still}} continued to defiantly attack me and then you as well. Sandstein declared that AE was not the forum for dealing with this, and declined to take action about it on that basis; this suggested that raising it at ANI was the only appropriate action. If doing so really was "too bold", I can accept that, but will need clarification on {{em|how}} it was so, and would have to also say that I feel I was {{em|explicitly herded}} in ANI's direction. While I may have rubbed some people the wrong way here, and filed an AE request with evidence that has been deemed too weak in part and too old as to the rest of it, such that I rescinded the request, that doesn't somehow give other editors ''carte blanche'' to use AE as a platform for verbally abusing me (or anyone else) with impunity.<p>If I had said about LittleBenW (or anyone else) what he has said about me (and then you) here, I have no doubt that I would now have a 1-year outright block imposed on me, since that's the SMcCandlish "remedy" Sandstein's proposed/threatened several times for any AGF/NPA violation in any MOS/AT discussion, as if I'm some kind of vandal, and he's stated he does consider AE itself to be within scope. I suppose I am not even permitted to speculate why LittleBenW got a free pass to do the same thing here under the same watch (and in a venue with a huge hatnote warning against personal attacks, an him violating his topic ban to engage in them), interesting as that question might be. It goes nicely with a related question: Why am I being raked over the coals so intently, aside from being allowed to be a personal-attacks target for days in a row, when I'm actually trying to follow the increasingly stringent "use the appropriate dispute resolution forum and do not get into personalizing squabbles on talk pages, or else" admonitions WP is full of lately? — <font face="Trebuchet MS">''']''' &nbsp;<span style="white-space:nowrap;">] ɖ<sup><big>⊝</big></sup>כ<sup>⊙</sup>þ </span> <small>]</small></font> 12:50, 12 March 2013 (UTC)</p><p>PS: I have looked and looked, and the only noteworthy interaction I can find between me and Fyunck(click) heretofore is ]. While Fyunck and I were argumentative with each other, it was short, and even included me apologizing for ascribing someone else's edit to Fyunck by mistake, and Fyunck accepting the apology. Not much of a basis for a "grudge" assumption, right? — <font face="Trebuchet MS">''']''' &nbsp;<span style="white-space:nowrap;">] ɖ<sup><big>⊝</big></sup>כ<sup>⊙</sup>þ </span> <small>]</small></font> 13:42, 12 March 2013 (UTC)</p>


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
'''@Any uninvolved admin:''' Please just close this with nothing against Fyunck(click), since that seems to be the consensus, and a warning toward me against filing poor AE requests, if you feel one is actually warranted after I've already clearly gotten that point and understood that my request was actually much weaker than I thought when filing it (my first time ever making an AE request, and probably my last due to the intensely personalized hostile reception I received from one admin here, I might add). All this legalistic process is a frustrating time-sink for everyone. I've been wondering for several days why this is still open, since AE collectively determined I failed to present an adequate case almost immediately after I opened this request, and I've conceded that several times. There's multiple oppositions registered to blocking me, and not even a consensus to short-term topic-ban me, and now concerns raised about why a long-term productive editor with a clean block record is being considered for treatment like an inveterate disruptor, absent any actual evidence of bad faith, and even a showing of good faith in rescinding the AE request. Happening to be on the ] side of an AE request is not grounds for punitive sanctioning. Unwarranted sanctions that raise serious questions and concerns, as those proposed here already have, do {{em|not}} have a legitimate deterrent/preventative effect, but simply lead to {{em|more}} disputation and process, because they almost inevitably lead to appeals. — <font face="Trebuchet MS">''']''' &nbsp;<span style="white-space:nowrap;">] ɖ<sup><big>⊝</big></sup>כ<sup>⊙</sup>þ </span> <small>]</small></font> 12:57, 12 March 2013 (UTC)</p>
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> <!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


===Discussion concerning Fyunck(click)=== ===Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian ===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br>Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> <small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
====Statement by Fyunck(click)====
Wow. I'm not exactly sure where the heck this came from... sort of out of the blue. In an ongoing discussion at ] I give a single opinion on an unsettled debate and out shoots an Arbitration Enforcement. I checked out SMcCandlish because of this and see he was so I guess the frustration is to take it out on me. Under sanction/remedy to be enforced I have no idea what Mr. SMcCandlish is talking about - so no comment.
::under diff of edits:
*1. An editor asks a query and gets responses across the board. I make one comment... one... and I wind up here. Does having an opposing view to SMcCandlish really warrant me having to go through this? Or is this simply his anger at his recent warning coming through and I just happened to be an easy target?
*2. I really don't know what to say here either. Is everyone who participates in any diacritic conversation "battlegrounding?" If so that would certainly include SMcCandlish and hundreds of others. Is SMcCandlish really asking for the muting of all opposing views on wikipedia? That seems a bit harsh to me.


====Statement by PerspicazHistorian ====
::under Diffs of notifications
*By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on ] Page.
*1. I have no idea exactly what this is - so no comment
I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before ] told me about this: ].
*2. He really wants to bring HandsomeFella into this? An editor who's been blocked many times warns me for something that did not happen, and you bring that up here. This is an editor I've had problems with in the past with things he left on my own talk page. And the things that were being contested were not diacritics. How much combing and how how far back and how many ashtrays did SMcCandlish have to look under to bring this frivolous request here?
Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.<br>
*3. Absolute falsehood. And "clearly returned to the topic in force" is another ridiculous statement by SMcCandlish. Can he really do this with no consequences? In that ANI someone said that SMcCandlish was "intimidating me" on my talk page. I came over to the ANI to say he wasn't intimidating me. Goodness. But let me state right now... SMcCandlish is intimidating me now. This is like bullying and it must stop.
*In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on ] by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to ] it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of ].<br>
*4. This is just grasping at straws by SMcCandlish. I was not blocked for edit warring over diacritics but a content dispute, and the person on the other side of the coin was also blocked. The other person was also blocked again. What a content dispute in July has to with this is beyond me.
*As a clarification to my edit on ], it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this . I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong.
:@], Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in ]. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! ] (]) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::Yes, I will commit to that. ] (]) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC) </small>
:At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when ] was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. ] (]) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
*Hi @] , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me.
::''<small>P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards.</small>'' ] (]) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)<small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.] (]) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)</small>


*1) I just asked an user @] if the page move is possible. What's wrong with it? I still have not considered putting a move request on talk page of article.
Disclosure: I may disagree with SMcCandlish's diacritics position on both logical and policy grounds, but not enough to bully or intimidate as he is doing to me now. And I can't help what others write on my page but I do try to answer to the best of my ability. If someone wants to cherry pick those answers without the context that goes with them then there's not a lot I can do. (''The remainder of the response has been removed by a reviewing administrator because it exceeded the 500 word limit indicated at the beginning of the section. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 07:12, 8 March 2013 (UTC))'' ] (]) 21:00, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
:2) Many of other sources are not raj era. Moreover I myself have deleted the content way before you pointing this out. Thank You ! ] (]) 06:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
**Note - the numbers I added were a direct response to Mr. SMcCandlish's numbers above. He has since changed them to heap on more and more ridiculous attacks on me, and I'm not going to keep renumbering them everytime he decides to heap on more. My statements stand as is to this bullying, even though they were also trimmed. ] (]) 10:20, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
::even @] is seen engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics. ] (]) 06:37, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:::as mentioned by @] before, <sub>Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here</sub>. You can discuss content related topics on talk pages of articles rather than personally targeting a user here in enforcement. ] (]) 06:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::::@] I once filed a to find it @] is a sock (out of a misunderstanding, as all were teamed up similarly on various pages). I think he felt it as a personal attack by me and filed this request for enforcement. Please interfere. ] (]) 06:47, 29 December 2024 (UTC) <small>moving to correct section ] (]) 13:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)</small>


*Hi @] @], In my defense I just want to say that
'''Followup''' I have to say the further statements by SMcCandlish (many misleading ones at that) make me really wonder what I ever did to him to make him so vitriol towards me. I only recall a couple times where we were on different ends of a diacritic debate... and now I see he has written more about me. I actually came here to ask that he just apologize to me and promise never to do this to me again, and let it go with a simple warning... that's the way I wish wikipedia would work. But now after reading more and more statements I begin to wonder if there is something underlying this? His attitude seems to be "oh well, I brought Fyunck here and it didn't work, no harm done." No "I'm sorry", no "boy did I make a mistake that will never happen again." I wish if something wasn't clear that SMcCandlish would have just asked me about it nicely on my talk page... it's not like I don't try to answer anything anyone writes there (except for one or two who I've had to have administrators deal with). But to open up my page and see I'd been dragged here, when I knew I hadn't argued with anyone for awhile, makes me wonder... will this happen to me again by SMcCandlish? Has he done this to anyone else with no remorse? I sure hope not, and I would hope a warning would work, but it makes me look over my shoulder now. ] (]) 05:03, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
:1)Yes I usually edit on RSS related topics, but to ensure a democratic view is maintained as many socks try to disrupt such articles. Even on ] page, I just edited on request of talk page and added a graph. I don't think its a POV push.
:2) My main interest in editing is ] and ] topics.
:3)There have been certain cases in past where I was blocked but if studied carefully they were result of me edit warring with socks(although, through guidance of various experienced editors and admins I learnt a SPI should be filed first). I have learnt a lot in my journey and there have been nearly zero case of me of edit warring this month.
:Please do not block me. ] (]) 14:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
*@] I beg apologies for the inconvenience caused, thanks for correcting me. I will now reply in my own statement section. @] I am a quick learner and professionally competent to edit in this encyclopedic space. Please consider reviewing this enforcement if its an counter-attack on me as mentioned in my previous replies. You all are experienced editors and I have good faith in your decision-making capability.] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*@]@] I have edited content marked as "original research" and "mess" by you, I am ready to help removing any content that might be considered "poorly sourced" by the community. Please don't block me.] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*@] This enforcement started for edit-warring and now I feel its more concerned to my edited content(which I agree to cooperate and change wherever needed). After learning about edit wars, there has been no instance of me edit-warring, Please consider my request.--] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*:@] I am not a slow learner, I understand the concerns of all admins here. I will try my best to add only reliable sources, and discuss content in all talk pages, as I already mentioned ]. ] (]) 12:55, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*::@]@] I think admins should focus more on encouraging editors when they do good and correct when mistaken. I have made many edits, added many citations and created much articles which use fine citations. The enforcement started out of retaliation by nxcrypto, now moving towards banning me anyways. I started editing out of passion, and doing it here on wiki unlike those who come here just for pov pushes and disrupt article space(talking about socks and vandalizers on contentious Indian topics).
*::The article ] doesn't only has issue on citations, but the whole article is copypasted from the citations I added. I just wanted to point that out. Remaining about ], I am currently pursuing Btech in cs from IIT delhi, idt I am a slow learner by any means. Still, happy new year to all ! ] (]) 14:01, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::@] You mean to say, "<sub>The ''prasada'' is to be consumed by attendees as a holy offering. The offerings may include cooked food, ] and confectionery sweets. Vegetarian food is usually offered and later distributed to the devotees who are present in the ]. Sometimes this vegetarian offering will exclude prohibited items such as garlic, onion, mushroom, etc. "</sub> is not copy pasted by website? Is this also a wiki mirror website? How would you feel if I doubt your competence now? ] (]) 14:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
*::::@ ] I just asked others to share their opinion in the enforcement. With all due respect, I don't think its wrong in any sense. ] (]) 15:13, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
*:::::To all the admins involved here,
*:::::* I agree to keep learning and apologize if my previous edits/replies have annoyed the admins.
*:::::* I have not edit warred since a month and please see it as my willingness to keep learning and getting better.
*:::::*Please give me a chance, I understand concern of you all and respect your opinion in the matter. But please don't block me from editing from main article space. I promise that I will abide by all the rules and will learn from other editors.
*:::::] (]) 15:22, 8 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by LittleBenW==== ====Statement by LukeEmily====
PerspicazHistorian also violated ] by engaging in an edit war with {{u|Ratnahastin}} who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.] (])
The essence of this dispute overlaps with the appeal that I intend to file against my topic ban, so I will provide some relevant information and links:
*The essence of the dispute between Fyunck and SMC is NPOV and MOS—MOS and WP:AT say that WP must be NPOV, however the tennis project had an RfC ] whose intent was essentially to ''ignore MOS rules about recognizability, wide use in reliable English sources, and NPOV'', and to ''as far as possible'' avoid using English-language titles. (The RfC was also to bully ] off Misplaced Pages for ]). This RfC ], ''especially if it is not used in the title''. The RfC doesn't change MOS, either. It is trivial to research BLP names in reliable English sources, by using ] for example. I&nbsp;understand Fyunck to be supporting NPOV, MOS, and WP:AT requirements, but the essence of SMC's threats ] seem to be that Fyunck would be "taken to ] for blatantly ], ] editing that serves no purpose other than to ] of their ]" . Note that ] to stop the edit warring. ] is arguably the source of most of the disputes and nastiness on WP, and may need an Arbcom decision—as POV-pushers falsely claim that the issue has already been decided, and shut down polite and civil RfCs. Other related discussion ].&nbsp; ] (]) 19:08, 9 March 2013 (UTC)


====Statement by Doug Weller====
*SMcCandlish: Merely saying in your edit summary that you don't have a grudge against Fyunck surely does not excuse yet another MOS-related frivolous, fraudulent, or malicious attack on a NPOV editor. ] (]) 01:47, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and ]'s comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving ] to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. ] (]) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. ] ] 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
*Fyunck(click]: He's only trying to bully you off Misplaced Pages because you believe in fair play and NPOV—but he says he doesn't hold a grudge against you, so you should not take it personally. ] (]) 07:32, 11 March 2013 (UTC)


:::I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... ] ] 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
====Statement by In ictu oculi====
User SMcCandlish has a virgin block log and I believe a block here would be inappropriate/overkill for 2 reasons:
:(1) he has pulled the request, which shows good faith
:(2) although the request was malformed (ARBCOM ruling is on titles/capitalization, wheras Fyunck's edits are leads/accents) but not frivolous:
:'''SMcCandlish RfC''': "Is it appropriate for a wikiproject to insist on no-diacritics names, based on an organisation's rule or commonness in English-language press?"
:'''Sandstein close''': "Consensus is that the answer to the question posed in the title of this RfC is "no". Additionally, a great majority of participants express a preference for retaining diacritics in the title of articles, either generally or as applied to tennis players in particular"
The 100 leads with the ] formula are counter the letter of RfC in that the 100 leads do "insist on no-diacritics names, based on an organisation's rule." - further these 100 leads have been largely added after the RfC in response to RfC and RMs and around 20 separate editors have tried to revert the formula across these 100 articles, with Fyunck reverting in all cases.


====Statement by Toddy1====
Therefore on point(2) although the request was malformed I do not think a block can be given to an editor with a virgin record for seeing an editor already disregarding an RfC close on 100 articles to make comment dismissing the same consensus with or without the nationality addition: "Tennis doesn't use them.... The only place I've seen huge amounts of diacritics is here on wikipedia, but with so many non-English-first editors these days that shift is to be expected." As far as linking to ] we don't generally block editors for linking to an existing WP:SHORTCUT no matter how crass.
This is another editor who appears to have pro-] (RSS) and pro-] (BJP) views. I dislike those views, but find it rather alarming that Misplaced Pages should seek to censor those views, but not the views of the political opponents. Imagine the outrage if we sought to topic-ban anyone who expressed pro-] views, but allowed ] to say whatever they liked.


A lot of pro-RSS/BJP editors turn out to be sock-puppets, so please can we do a checkuser on this account. And to be even-handed, why not checkuser NXcrypto too.
As far as Fyunck, I also don't see the need to block/sanction, until someone formally says to him, "yes that's part of the RfC close." ] (]) 12:51, 11 March 2013 (UTC)


If we want to talk about ] when editors make mistakes, look at the diff given by NXcrypto for "Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested" - it is the wrong diff. He/she did notify PerspicazHistorian - but the correct diff is .
====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


A topic ban from Indian topics would be unhelpful, unless given to both parties. Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India. Loading the dice against BJP and RSS editors will turn Misplaced Pages into a fringe encyclopaedia on Indian topics.
===Result concerning Fyunck(click)===
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
<small>''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''</small>


I can see a good case for restricting PerspicazHistorian to draft articles and talk pages for a month, and suggesting that he/she seeks advice from more experienced editors. Another solution would be a one-revert rule to last six months.<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">--] ]</span> 13:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
I've shortened the request to the extent it exceeded the 500 word limit indicated at the beginning of the section. Indicating why a warning or notice is required should well be doable within 500 words. SMcCandlish may re-submit the request in a shortened version if he does so before Fyunck(click) responds to it. I'm waiting for a statement by Fyunck(click) before commenting on the merits. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 19:38, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
:On the merits now: The request (as it now stands) contains exactly of allegedly objectionable behavior. I find nothing of concern in it. It is an argument about whether and how diacritics are used in English (that is a question of the content of the MOS and therefore outside the scope of AE), and an observation that "but with so many non-English-first editors these days that shift is to be expected". That is a general observation about Misplaced Pages's editorship and does not personalize any disputes. It requires no administrative action. This request borders on the frivolous, and I invite comment by other administrators about whether action is needed with regard to this. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 07:21, 8 March 2013 (UTC)


====Statement by Capitals00====
* What is the exact criterion for being an uninvolved administrator here? I have discussed the diacritics issue with Fyunck(click) at length before, so even if I don't know what he's been up to in the last few months (in particular, all of these diffs above are news to me), I'd rather steer clear. What makes me somewhat confused is that Sandstein ] but has in turn commented in this section. Granted, I think any admin should have come to those same conclusions there, but someone else could disagree, and that action still involved a modicum of interpretation and discretion, so it could be broadly construed as involvement, too. --] (]) 11:16, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
I find the comment from {{U|Toddy1}} to be entirely outrageous. What are you trying to tell by saying "{{tq|Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India}}"? If you want us to entertain those who are in power, then we could never have an article like ].
:: The thing that prompted me to ask this in particular was the implication of '''' Nothing personal against you, Sandstein, I hope it didn't come off that way. --] (]) 11:20, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
:::Hm, whether you could be seen as involved would depend on the length and intensity of your diacritics-related discussion, I think. ] excepts "minor or obvious edits which do not speak to bias".
:::I didn't remember closing that RfC in 2012 – I frequently close random RfCs listed as needing closure on ]. My personal view is that while I might have become involved if I had expressed an opinion of my own in the RfC (especially one strongly opposed to that of any party to the present request), the role of a closer of an RfC (or any other community discussion, such as an AfD) is to neutrally evaluate the consensus outcome of the discussion (and since nobody has objected to the closure, I assume that's how it was perceived). I've closed plenty of Israel/Palestine-related AfDs, for example, and nobody has ever said that for this reason I might be too involved to act as an administrator in that topic area.
:::In the instant case, the consensus I considered to emerge from the RfC was congruent with SMcCandlish's opinion, and may have been contrary to (as far as I can tell) Fyunck(click)'s opinion. As applied to the present request, I'd therefore only consider recusing myself if Fyunck(click) were to request it. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 16:53, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
:::: That would be my guess, yes, but I just realized that the whole issue is moot because the diff is from early March 2012, and ] was only closed later that same month. --] (]) 11:54, 9 March 2013 (UTC)


You cannot ask topic ban for both editors without having any evidence of misconduct. Same way, you cannot ask CU on either user ]. It is a high time that you should strike your comment, since you are falsely accusing others that they "{{tq|seek to censor}}" this editor due to his "{{tq| pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views}}". You should strike your comment. If you cannot do that, then I am sure ] is coming for you. ] (]) 15:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
Regarding the issue of involvement, I'm not sure whether closing an RFC with a particular finding makes one "involved" or not, I would say not normally; if there was a question of conflict of interest, it might be, but I am not aware of the particular circumstances of the RFC in question and I doubt it would help resolve this request to go looking into it here.


====Statement by Vanamonde93====
<s>As to the merits of this request, the relevant statement from the original arbcom case would I think be that ''All parties are reminded to avoid personalizing disputes''. While Fyunck's comments are technically comments on contributor, I don't think they quite rise to the level of ''personalizing disputes'', particularly since Fyunck is commenting on a third party or parties not involved in the actual discussions in which he made these comments. To put it another way, I don't get the impression that Fyunck was setting out to offend or belittle anyone here, or that a legitimate content discussion was being derailed through the use of such tactics. So while I wouldn't describe this request as ''frivolous'' exactly, I don't think it has a great deal of substance. Users must I think be allowed a ''little'' leeway in trying to make a point. What I would describe as sanctionable would be comments which might be considered to be unduly hostile, or which might be likely to cause anger or offence, and there isn't much evidence of that here. So I don't see any need for action at this time; the request itself will probably serve as a sufficient reminder to Fyunck</s>. ] (]) 13:19, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
{{U|Toddy1}}: I, too, am baffled by your comment. We don't ban editors based on their POV; but we do ban editors who fail to follow our PAGs, and we certainly don't make excuses for editors who fail to follow our guidelines based on their POV. You seem to be suggesting we cut PH some slack because of their political position, and I find that deeply inappropriate. Among other things, I don't believe they have publicly stated anywhere that they support the BJP or the RSS, and we cannot make assumptions about them.


That said, the fact that this was still open prompted me to spot-check PH's contributions, and I find a lot to be concerned about. is from 29 December, and appears to be entirely original research; I cannot access all of the sources, but snippet search does not bear out the content added, and the Raj era source for the first sentence certainly does not support the content it was used for. ], entirely authored by PH, is full of puffery ({{tq|"first to sacrifice his life for the cause of Swarajya"}}, and poor sources (like , and , whose blurb I leave you to judge), from which most of the article appears to be drawn. ], also entirely authored by PH, has original research in its very first sentence; the sources that I can access give passing mention to people whose names include the suffix "appa", and thus could perhaps be examples of usage, but the sources most certainly do not bear out the claim.
: Unfortunately I missed the fact in making the previous comment that three of the diffs are actually a year old. There is only one recent diff, and I see nothing objectionable about that comment, just making the observation that there are plenty of foreigners on en.wiki and assuming they would have a preference for diacritics can scarcely be construed as some sort of attack. So I agree that the request is frivolous. I think either a warning or a brief topic ban would be in order here. ] (]) 14:06, 8 March 2013 (UTC)


I will note in fairness that I cannot access all the sources for the content I checked. But after spotchecking a dozen examples I have yet to find content PH wrote that was borne out by a reliable source, so I believe skepticism is justified. We are in territory where other editors may need to spend days cleaning up some of this writing. {{U|Bishonen}} If we're in CIR territory, just a normal indefinite block seems cleanest, surely? Or were you hoping that PH would help clean up their mess, perhaps by providing quotes from sources? That could be a pathway to contributing productively, but I'm not holding my breath. ] (]) 18:00, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
*I too see nothing objectionable in the first diff; Fyunck's remark that non-native speakers of English might prefer diacritics seems like a fairly straightforward observation to me. Also, the "talked about a bazillion times" part may be hyperbole, but as I understand it there certainly has been a lot of discussion on the issue. With the lack of any other recent evidence presented, I have to agree with Sandstein and Gatoclass that this is a frivolous report. I think closing this with a warning would be too lax given SMcCandlish's warnings in this forum ] and ]. Neither am I fan of topic bans covering a short duration, as they often cause more drama than they solve. I think the most appropriate thing to do in this situation would be to issue SMcCandlish with a short block, perhaps for one week, although I am open to persuasion about the length. — ''''']''''' <sup>]</sup> 15:08, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
:*Agreed in principle, but it may be better to reconsider the longer-term MOS topic ban I suggested in the previous request regarding SMcCandlish. Sanctions should be preventative, not punitive. Because SMcCandlish's contributions in other topic areas are not problematic, as far as I know, a topic ban would be better suited to preventing untoward conduct than a block, which would prevent all contributions. The pattern of conduct that emerges from the previous requests you mention is one of a battleground attitude to MOS disagreements, and this groundless enforcement request is somewhat congruent with that pattern, because it is understandable that Fyunck(click) perceives it as "intimidating" and "bullying". Consequently I favor imposing a topic ban from the MOS and all related issues for about six months to a year. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 16:53, 8 March 2013 (UTC)


:Thanks Bish: I agree, as my exchanges with PH today, in response to my first post here, have not inspired confidence. . ] (]) 20:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::: I couldn't possibly agree to a ban of that length for an initial sanction, especially for a relatively trivial offence like filing a frivolous request - and particularly since this is an offence that usually attracts no more than a warning at most. If it's to be a topic ban, it should not be any more than the usual length for an initial ban of one month. I could support a longer initial ban for, say, a hardened POV-pusher, but for a user whose positive contributions to the topic area are widely acknowledged, and who probably just needs a little time to adjust to the discretionary sanctions regime, more than a month would be unduly punitive IMO. ] (]) 17:06, 8 March 2013 (UTC)


====Statement by UtherSRG====
* Going back to March last year to find trouble is pointless if there's no ''current'' problem... not even the rant from November 2012 is relevant because it's already been three months since that. The most recent diff isn't really objectionable - warning against it would easily be seen as an exercise in restricting someone's freedom of speech. SMcCandlish, why are you bringing this up now? --] (]) 11:54, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
I've mostly dealt with PH around ]. They do not seem to have the ability to read and understand our policies and processes. As such, a t-ban is too weak. The minimum I would support is a p-block as suggested below, though a full indef is also acceptable. They could then ask for the ] when they can demonstrate they no longer have ] issues. - ] ] 20:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC)


:Based on , I'm more strongly leaning towards indef. - ] ] 12:27, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
:*The in LittleBenW's statement, although a bit old (Nov. 12) is in line with my assessment of SMcCandlish using battleground terminology ("Anglo-American anti-ethnic discrimination", "xenophobic WP:BOLLOCKS") and, as here, the arbitration process as a means of intimidation ("The next time someone tries to force this article to be ... without the diaeresis, they should be taken to WP:ARBCOM") in order to win content disputes about issues of style. On the other hand, the statement may violate the diacritics topic ban that LittleBenW is apparently subject to (although I haven't seen it), but since that is apparently a community-imposed sanction, rather than an arbitral one, it can't be enforced in this venue. <p> I'd prefer not to be the one to close this, frankly, if only to avoid lengthy discussions about involvement (as previously discussed, my opinion is that my interactions with SMcCandlish were of a purely administrative nature; just because he disagrees with my warnings to him and my assessment of his conduct doesn't make me involved.) But if no other uninvolved administrator closes this thread, I'll do so with a two-month topic ban to SMcCandlish, which takes into account Gatoclass's concern about length above. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 07:37, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
::They now indicate they believe the article they edited was copied from one of the websites they used as a reference, when in reality the website is a mirror/scrape of the Misplaced Pages article. I believe we are firmly in ] territory here. - ] ] 14:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
::*It looks like no-one else is about to agree with my suggestion of a week-long block, and I do see your point about a topic ban allowing positive contributions in other areas to continue. If we are going to go with a topic ban, though, I would prefer it to be for one month, rather than two, for the same reasons as Gatoclass. More than one month seems a bit harsh for a first sanction to me. — ''''']''''' <sup>]</sup> 09:07, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
::: is a mirror of the Misplaced Pages article. - ] ] 16:29, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
:::*If you prefer that, all right, although it may just mean that we'll be back here faster. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 17:25, 10 March 2013 (UTC)


===Result concerning PerspicazHistorian ===
:::: I concur with Mr. Stradivarius and Gatoclass that blocking SMC for an extended period wouldn't be a good idea. Everyone else involved seems to have a history of egregious violations of policy that caused them to previously get blocked by various admins, whereas SMC has only recently been warned twice for assuming bad faith, but never blocked. Having them blocked for failing to present up-to-date evidence of bad faith about users that we already know to be more problematic than them - certainly looks disproportionate. In my mind at least, there's quite a serious difference between looking at a clean block log and one with something in it. A temporary topic ban won't leave that kind of a mark but will be enough to dissuade them from making these accusations as casually as before (because a single topic ban violation will be enough to prompt a block). --] (]) 09:01, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''


{{u|PerspicazHistorian}}, can you explain your understanding of ] and the ] rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring ''even if they aren't breaking 3RR''. ] (]) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
:: Re: SMC update - it's a dismissive statement, yes, possibly denigrating, but TTBOMK the community has not withdrawn the ] on Fyunck, so if that's all you've got, it's glaringly insufficient for action. If he was doing something disruptive at the same time, you might have a case, but like this, it looks like you are holding a grudge and abusing AE for that.
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
:: Re: LBW - while looking into this, I found that Fyunck was blocked on 23 July 2012 for 17 hours before being unblocked, and the block log says Joe Decker did it because of the article ]; while I haven't examined every aspect of that story, the conflated description of those events and persons appears quite tendentious, particularly coupled with the gross misinterpretation of the MakeSense64 RFC at the same time and a block log that shows no less than three blocks in the last six months. At the same time, SMC has none, and people are seriously thinking of boomerang-blocking him - LBW looks like a prime target for the same.
:@], that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is ''the first time'' someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that?
:: --] (]) 18:46, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
:<small>Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is ]; in their ] NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here.</small> ] (]) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::I'm seeing this as a CIR issue. I'd like input from other admins, if possible. I'm a little concerned that setting a tban from IPA is just setting a trap. Maybe a p-block from article space would be a kinder way to allow them to gain some experience? ] (]) 13:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:::@], have you seen how many times I or others have had to move your comments to your own section? This is an example of not having enough experience to edit productively. Please do not post in anyone else's section again. ] (]) 16:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I do agree we're in CIR territory, and the concerns expressed are completely valid. I don't think this editor is ill-intentioned. They just don't seem very motivated to learn quickly. Well-intentioned-but-a-slow-learner is something that can only be fixed by actually practicing what you're bad at. I'd prefer an indef from article space which gives them one more chance to learn here before we send them off to mr.wiki or Simple English to try to learn. Not a hill I'm going to die on, though. ] (]) 11:36, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::@], like Uther I have major concerns about the edit you made yesterday, which included replacing a citation needed tag with these sources.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Significance of Different Type of Prasad in Hinduism For God |url=https://www.ganeshaspeaks.com/predictions/astrology/prasad-food-for-god/ |access-date=2024-12-30 |website=GaneshaSpeaks |language=en-GB}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=What Is Prashad |url=https://www.swaminarayan.faith/articles/what-is-prashad |access-date=2024-12-30 |website=Shree Swaminarayan Mandir Bhuj |language=en}}</ref> The first is a company that markets astrology services. The second is the site for a religious sect. Neither is a reliable source for explaining the concept of prasada in Wikivoice. You made this edit ''yesterday'', after you'd confirmed here and on my talk that you understood sourcing policy.
:::::The reason for an indef from article space is to allow you to learn this policy: You would go into article talk and suggest sources to fix citation needed tags. Another editor would have to agree with you that the sources are reliable before they'd add them. ] (]) 12:51, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
*A tban from IPA for PerspicazHistorian would be a relief to many editors trying to keep this difficult area in reasonable shape. However, Valereee makes a good point about 'setting a trap': it's doubtful that PH would be able to keep to a tban even if they tried in good faith. I would therefore support a p-block from article space. ] &#124; ] 16:48, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
*:{{u|Vanamonde93}}, no, I don't really think PH can usefully help clean up their mess; I was following Valereee, who has been going into this in some depth, in attempting to keep some way of editing Misplaced Pages open for PH. It's a bit of a counsel of desperation, though; there is very little daylight between an indef and a p-block from article space. Yes, we ''are'' in CIR territory; just look at PH's ] for NXcrypto being "engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics": one diff of an opponent complaining on NXcrypto's page, and one diff of somebody reverting NXcrypto. What do those actually prove? That NXcrypto has opponents (big surprise). So, yes, as you suggest, I'll support an indef as well. ] &#124; ] 20:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
*Is there a length of time proposed for the p-ban or would it be indefinite? ] (]) 17:06, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
*:I would say indefinite; not infinite, but I'd be wary about letting them back into articlespace without some kind of preclearance. ] (] • she/her) 18:39, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
*It looks to me like there is a consensus for an indefinite partial block for PerspicazHistorian from article space. Unless any uninvolved admin objects within a day or so, I will close as such. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 06:31, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
*:Given PH's recent slew of requests on multiple admin talk pages, yes, please do. - ] ] 12:58, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
*<!--
-->


{{reflist talk}}
::*Thank you for yet another example of the and the rejection of NPOV. ] (]) 02:11, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
:::: Why am I to thank for anything you wish to imply? Your link shows ]'s edit summary of ''I wouldn't use the censorship argument, it didn't turn out well for GoodDay.'' That's presumably a reference to something negative that happened to ], so I went and looked, and his block log shows no less than five blocks in the last year or so, the last two based on arbitration enforcement. At the same time, the former user's block log shows an 11h block by Joe Decker coterminous with Fyunck's 17h block, and one edit-warring block after that.
:::: But I digress. I'm less than impressed by the accusation of intimidation when we're talking about people who have violated policies enough to get blocked so many times. SMC might have dug a hole for himself here, but you appear to be matching him and then some with this idea that implicating a third user in wrongdoing against Fyunck is somehow beneficial - if you want to request arbitration enforcement against HandsomeFella - do that; if you want to say e.g. that SMC and HF are tag-teaming against Fyunck - do that. Don't give us all this innuendo, because it just looks like you have an axe to grind, too. BTW this is not the right section for your comment. --] (]) 08:24, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
::::: In the meantime, SMcCandlish appealed for someone to enforce ], and so it was enforced with a block. *sigh* It doesn't significantly affect this process, but it's interesting because it may be seen to fit the pattern: SMC is clearly an editor who is bold in dealing with what he perceives is ] - but is he too bold? --] (]) 08:14, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
:::::: How can a ''successful'' request, agreed to by two admins there, be used as evidence that SMC has a pattern of frivolous cases or being "too bold"? ] <small>(] &#124; ])</small> 16:56, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

OK, it seems nobody else wants to close this, and we're back in wall-of-text territory, so I'll do it. Per the discussion above, for continued battleground-like conduct in disputes about the manual of style, as manifested notably in the recent requests of ] and ] and in this frivolous and vexatious request, SMcCandlish is topic-banned (per ]) for one month from everything related to the ] and its components, except for references to the MOS that may be necessary to explain any articlespace edits he makes. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 18:01, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
{{hab}} {{hab}}


== Soosim == ==LaylaCares==
{{hat|There is consensus to remove LaylaCares's EC flag. ] (]) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

===Request concerning LaylaCares===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Vice regent}} 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|LaylaCares}}<p>{{ds/log|LaylaCares}}</p>
{{hat|1=Soosim blocked four days for violation of the ARBPIA 1RR on two different articles. ] (]) 20:38, 12 March 2013 (UTC) }}
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 06:13, 8 March 2013 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Soosim}}
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> <!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] and ] ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> <!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. --> <!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# Undoes previous edit on ] # EC gaming
# Undoes previous edit on ], thus a violation of 1RR



; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) :
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. -->
#Warned on by {{user|EdJohnston}}


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : ; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
Pretty obvious case of EC gaming. Account created on Nov 17, 2024, then about 500 mostly minor edits followed by the first substantial edit ever was the creation of on Dec 17 (subsequently moved to draftspace).''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
*One edit relates to the Israeli occupation, the other to ]. Both are clearly connected to I/P. If you look at the recent history of ], you'll see another violation of 1RR: first , then , both on 6 March.
*This request comes in the context of serious concern about the way Soosim has been adding poorly sourced negative material to the BLPs of activists on the left of the I/P conflict. One egregious example was , using a very questionable source to get an accusation of anti-Semitism onto the page. Another one is , where some neutral material is accompanied by a vitriolic paragraph sourced to ]'s own website. Soosim has been antagonising Goldblum for months now, and if he can't adhere strictly to 1RR then he ought to be given a lengthy break and/or a topic ban. The use of poor sources for negative BLP editing should, in my view, result in a sanction even when it doesn't violate 1RR.


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
*@Sandstein: the indicated "notification" by EdJohnston was in fact a block for violating 1RR as per the ARBPIA sanctions. I don't think that whether Soosim is aware of ARBPIA is really in question. ] (]) 17:56, 8 March 2013 (UTC)<br>
*'''Comment''' -- Whatever one makes of Sandstein's concern about the general nature of ARBPIA, the fact is that Soosim was warned and clearly knows about 1RR on I/P articles. The sort of concern Sandstein indicates, if widely shared among arbs/admins, portends to undermine the 1RR restriction in this area. I think that would be a very bad idea. As for Soosim's claim that I too violated 1RR, that is an extremely bad faith claim, failing to indicate that my edit was immediately self-reverted and failing to convey the edit-summary with the explanation (). ] (]) 17:50, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
*@EdJohnston: I don't think the 1RR violation itself is serious enough to justify a topic ban. But in the context of using very poor quality sources to get things like "anti-Semitic" and "hypocrisy and double standards" onto BLPs, I think a topic ban warrants consideration. This sort of thing is a plague in the I/P area. ] (]) 18:41, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
*@Ed -- on inspection, it's true that Soosim didn't add the text about 'hypocrisy and double standards'; he did however use the CAMERA source to expand that passage and add an ''example'' of what he appears to consider Siegman's 'hypocrisy and double standards'. It's a mystery to me how this makes it 'more acceptable'. ] (]) 07:13, 11 March 2013 (UTC)


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : <!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
.


===Discussion concerning Soosim=== ===Discussion concerning LaylaCares===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br>Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> <small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
====Statement by Soosim====
hi all - i see there has been some discussion here since yesterday. i apologize for not answering right away. i started to and then was unable to be at my computer until now (36 hours later).


====Statement by LaylaCares====
i would like to say the following:


====Statement by Aquillion====
a) nomo was waiting for me to screw up. fine. i screwed up, according to the rules. i was 23 hours and not 25. (though 25 can also be like 24 under certain circumstances, right?). i have an 'excuse', but it is irrelevant. and yes, the two edits were two very different items, but apparently that is irrelvant as well.
Question: Assuming it's determined that they gamed the extended-confirmed restriction, would the page they created be ]-able? I've asked the relevant question in more detail ], since it is likely to come up again as long as we have such a broad restriction on effect, but I figured it was worth mentioning the issue here as well. --] (]) 14:16, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


===Statement by Dan Murphy===
b) i am very shocked at nomo's wholesale categorization of me "serious concern about the way Soosim has been adding poorly sourced negative material to the BLPs of activists on the left of the I/P conflict". i have made thousands of edits, and there are two questionable ones (questionable according to nomo). i will simply say that the greta berlin edit was one which can be allowed since the source was specific and knowledgable. after it was reverted, i left it alone. didn't fight it, didn't edit war. period. and for the siegelman edit, i was clarifying content that was already there. didn't add what nomo thinks.
Please look at ], written by the account under discussion. It's a hit job, originally placed in mainspace by this account. Anyone who wrote that shouldn't be allowed with 1 million miles of the topic.] (]) 23:14, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by starship.paint====
c) and if i may, nomo also has been a 1RR violater on the same exact page. i think this shows it: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Amiram_Goldblum&diff=542762926&oldid=542536262 - but, i will not "take nomo to AE" because in my 5+ years of wiki editing, i haven't done that. i prefer to talk on the talk pages, work things out. you ask my 'natural' sparring partners about that (sean.hoyland, malik, dlv, etc.). maybe i need to be more 'vicious', but i doubt i will head in that direction.
I've edited Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations, so Dan Murphy's link is inaccurate for the purposes of this discussion. For the version of Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations with content only written by LaylaCares, . '''] (] / ])''' 10:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by (username)====
thanks for listening.


@EdJohnston: ed - if i may....a) berlin: i used a piece written by the person themselves. i wasn't using mondoweiss as a RS, but rather the article itself. if joe shmoe writes an article, it is valid for joe shmoe's opinion only, correct? did i miss something? ; b) camera - i didn't put that on the page. it was already there, and i think i edited it and added material to make it more acceptable. if it wasn't a good edit (the adding about the LA times, i think), then it can be removed. let me know what you think. thanks. ] (]) 05:56, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

@ed - i think 4 days is a bit harsh.....the last time was december 2011. i don't deny that i am overzealous and often get dragged in. and most of the time (zero times in the last 14 months) i am pretty good about it. i thought your original call for 48 hours was fair. ] (]) 05:28, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

==== Statement by Gatoclass ====

@Sandstein: In response to your queries, the 1RR discussion was led by admins then active at AE and was considered an AE remedy. Since AE admins are explicity given the ''discretion'' to impose remedies (hence "discretionary sanctions"), I'm sure they were seen as having the power to do so, but regardless, the 1RR restriction is by now long accepted as an ARBPIA remedy. With regard to Soosim, AFAICT he has been a regular contributor to I-P conflict-related pages since 2008, and has himself been the subject of AE requests in the past, so it is practically inconceivable that he would not be unaware of the 1RR restriction after all this time. ] (]) 17:45, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

: And Soosim him/herself explained the 1RR rule on this board . ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 13:53, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> <!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


===Result concerning Soosim=== ===Result concerning LaylaCares===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
<small>''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''</small>
*I agree that this looks like EC-gaming. Absent evidence that the edits themselves were problematic, I would either TBAN from ARBPIA or pull the EC flag until the user has made 500 edits that aren't rapidfire possibly LLM-assisted gnomish edits. ] (]) 17:02, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

*I agree on the gaming piece and would suggest mainspace edits+time for restoration of EC. I will throw out 3 months + 500 (substantive) main space edits. ] (]) 17:16, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
Could someone who was around then explain how ] is a restriction enforceable under Arbitration Committee authority? The case page states "Per community discussion and decision at ]", but this board is not for enforcing community decisions, only arbitral ones. If the 1RR restriction is to be considered a discretionary sanction (and I'm not sure that it can be, since it neither invokes the arbitral decision's authority nor is it labeled as being imposed by a clearly identified uninvolved administrator), the question would remain as to how we know that Soosim was made aware of the restriction's existence. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 17:02, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
*I agree with Barkeep but I'd up it to 4 months. I don't believe that a TBAN is necessary at this point. ] (]/]) 04:45, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

*@]: I agree that the draft should be G5'd, but will wait for consensus to develop here. ] (]/]) 01:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*The ARBPIA 1RR was originally a community restriction, but Arbcom in March, 2012 that adds a qualifier to the terms of the 1RR, allowing IP edits to be reverted without counting against 1RR. They also modified the Troubles 1RR to use the same language. Since Arbcom touched the 1RR in 2012, I think they own it now. The Troubles 1RR was in the fall of 2011, perhaps to avoid this issue. ] (]) 05:20, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
*:I don't think the wording of ] allows for deletion of a page that was created by an EC user. <small>(ECR also seems to forget that anything other than articles and talkpages exists, but I think the most reasonable reading of provision A still allows for G5ing drafts at admins' discretion if the criteria are met.)</small> That said, a consensus at AE can delete a page as a "reasonable measure that necessary and proportionate for the smooth running of the project". Deleting under that provision is not something to be done lightly, but I think for a case where a page's existence violates the spirit of an ArbCom restriction but not the letter, it'd be a fair time to do it. And/or this could make for a good ARCA question, probably after PIA5 wraps. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 03:48, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
::If there is any question whether Soosim received a proper notice, I did warn him using the {{tl|uw-sanctions}} template . ] (]) 06:42, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
*I would just pull EC and require the editor to apply via AE appeal for its restoration. They should be very clearly aware that receiving such restoration will require both substantial time and making ''real'', substantive edits outside the area, as well as an understanding of what is expected of editors working in a CTOP area. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 01:22, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Thanks for the clarifications. You're all correct as far as I can tell, but nonetheless... Call me a hidebound legalist, but I'm uncomfortable enforcing a provision that is not clearly (a) a Committee decision taken by majority vote and published as such on the case page, or (b) a discretionary sanction labeled as such, made by a responsible individual administrator and specifically notified to the editor via talk page message or edit notice. ''Tertium non datur'', in my view. <p>Also, the 1RR restriction is worded such that it is to be applied to anyone who edits an affected article without prior warning: "Editors who violate this 1RR restriction may be blocked without warning by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offense". As it is unreasonable to expect that every editor who edits these articles is aware of even the existence of this arbitration case, this provision runs counter to my sense of procedural fairness (even though notification is not a problem in this case). <p>So, personally, I'd rather not take action in this case. That's not to say that I think less of anyone who ''does'' decide to act on this enforcement request, but to me this provision is too novel and unusual for me to be comfortable with acting on it. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 15:56, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
*I see a clear consensus here to remove the EC flag. For clarity, when I proposed a TBAN above it was because removing this flag ''is'' an ARBPIA TBAN as long as the ECR remedy remains in place; it's simply a question of whether the editor get the other privileges of EC or not. I don't see a consensus on what to do with the draft, but given that other editors have now made substantive contributions to it, I don't believe it's a good use of AE time to discuss the hypothetical further. ] (]) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
::::The defense that "I didn't know this is in effect" is moot when said editor has been warned prior, however. - ] &#124; <sup>] and ]</sup> 17:56, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
:*On the actual topic of this complaint, Soosim already broke 1RR and seems to have no valid defence. shows that he's been previously sanctioned for 1RR violation, so I'd double the previous remedy, and make this a 48-hour block. The only question is whether anyone considers this serious enough to justify a topic ban. ] (]) 18:33, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
:::I have now checked out the claims of Soosim's bad editing at ], ], ] and ]. The worst item was at ]. It seems to be an example of poor judgment on his part. Trying to use a blog like Mondoweiss as a reliable source for a certain bad comment being posted on Facebook is a stretch. Still, it's within the realm of editor discretion and I don't know if it is sanctionable at AE. looks to be another example of poor judgment. For us to cite CAMERA's opinion about an Israeli leftist is like reporting what Joe McCarthy thinks about Communism: the answer is predictable, and it tells us little about the person who is the target of the comment. It looks like there was another 1RR violation at ] on 3 March, so with that in mind I'd increase the block to 4 days. ] (]) 05:33, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
::::No admins have expressed any support for a topic ban. The submitter, Nomoskedasticity, mentions a topic ban. Gatoclass left a comment but he did not participate in the uninvolved admin section since he usually considers himself to be involved in this topic area. Sandstein does not wish to close 1RR violations that were established by ARBPIA due to ''"Tertium non datur"''. Sandstein, we've only closed about 50,000 of these here at AE while you were temporarily away from this board. So I'll proceed to close this within 24 hours with a four-day block of Soosim for the double 1RR violation unless there is consensus against that. ] (]) 20:36, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
:::::Closing now with a 4-day block. ] (]) 20:36, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
{{hab}} {{hab}}


==AstroGuy0==
== Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Brandmeister ==
{{hat|{{u|AstroGuy0}} has been issued a warning for source misrepresentation by {{u|Voorts}}. No other reviewers have expressed any wish for further action. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 06:29, 7 January 2025 (UTC) }}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning AstroGuy0===
<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found ]. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. <p>To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small>
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Hemiauchenia}} 03:41, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|AstroGuy0}}<p>{{ds/log|AstroGuy0}}</p>
; Appealing user : {{userlinks|Brandmeister}} – ]<sup>]</sup> 10:29, 10 March 2013 (UTC)


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
; Sanction being appealed : Two-year topic ban on all articles related to Armenia-Azerbaijan and related ethnic conflicts, broadly interpreted, imposed at ]


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin|Lord Roem}}
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
(Even though this isn't the usual R&I fare, I consider the intersection of "Race/ethnicity and sex offending", to come under "the intersection of '''race/ethnicity''' and human abilities '''and behaviour'''")


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
; Notification of that administrator :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# Asserts that "A majority of the perpetrators were Pakistani men" despite the cited source (freely accessible at ) does not mention the word "Pakistani" or any variant once.
# Describes the sex offender ring as "Pakistani" in the opening sentence when the cited source in the body says that they were only "mainly Pakistani"


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
===Statement by Brandmeister===


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
I would like to request a review of my topic ban, imposed on February 10, 2013 in the aforementioned AE section. The edit, for which I have been reported and sanctioned, was merely a removal of contradiction within the article's text (which I noted in the edit summary) and the edit was ultimately by mediator Golbez. Up until now the dissenting users themselves have no concerns at the ], which I started on February 4. Also I would like to note that the previous report on me was dishonest as it was made by account which subsequently turned out to be a sock. In ] that account, Vandorenfm, mentioned four other allegedly unrelated editors, with whom I had interacted (Aram-van, Gorzaim, Vandorenfm and Xebulon). All of them also turned out later to be socks, which likely tried to use the arbitration noticeboard as an instrument to overcome the content disputes. User:Zimmarod, who reported me this time, displays the behaviour of a dormant ], as evidenced by his/her contributions, that are almost exclusively within the Armenia-Azerbaijan field. Considering that and the fact that the Armenia-Azerbaijan topics constitute an insignificant part of my contributions, I believe that my two-year topic ban is inappropriately severe and can be reviewed. I am ready to provide any further details if necessary. ]<sup>]</sup> 10:29, 10 March 2013 (UTC)


: Made aware of contentious topics criterion:
@ Sandstein I have not wrote above, that Zimmarod was a sock. I wrote, that he behaves like ], which does not neccessarily mean that he is a sock. ]<sup>]</sup> 19:13, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
<!-- Add any further comment here -->


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
===Statement by Lord Roem===
I have no objection to reducing the ban duration, per the comment in the discussion section below (which I believe suggests shrinking from two years to one). If this needs to be done by ''me'', I'll gladly do it. Otherwise, I authorize any other uninvolved admin to adjust that time without objection from me. --''']''' ~ (]) 07:53, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
===Statement by (involved editor 1)===


Additional comments by editor filing complaint:
===Statement by (involved editor 2)===


This new user seems intent on POVPUSHING regarding "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" and making contentious claims that are not backed up by sources. ] (]) 03:44, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Brandmeister ===


===Discussion concerning AstroGuy0===
====Statement by The Devil's Advocate====
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
Sandstein, Brand's comment about sockpuppets filing a report against him is in reference to a report filed by ] in February of 2011, which resulted in a year-long topic ban. As you can see, that account was eventually found to be a sockpuppet of another editor. The other two accounts were also blocked as sockpuppets, one being a sockpuppet of the same editor who operated Vandorenfm. I think the current sanction is extremely excessive in light of those facts and given the very limited legitimate evidence provided in this latest case.--] <sub>] ]</sub> 21:30, 10 March 2013 (UTC)


====Statement by AstroGuy0====
The two-year length of the current topic ban was suggested because of there having been a previous one-year topic ban so it does have relevance to the current sanction.--] <sub>] ]</sub> 21:56, 10 March 2013 (UTC)


====Statement by Grandmaster==== ====Statement by Iskandar323====
This rather dated "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" malarkey from the UK has recently been pushed on social media by a certain US tech billionaire and is now recirculating in right-wing social media and the blogosphere, partly in connection with UK politics, so this trend could flare before it dims. ] (]) 03:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
I would like to support the request by Brandmeister. His 2 year topic ban is considered to be an escalation of his previous 1 year topic ban, but one should take into the account that the first ban was not a correct one. If we look into its history, the complaint against Brandmeister was made by ], a sock of the banned user. See here: Note the complaint of the sock: ''The immediate concern is his editing of the article on Caucasian Albania, where User:Twilight Chill continues waging an edit war against 5 (five) other unrelated editors (Aram-van, Gorzaim, Vandorenfm, MarshallBagramyan, Xebulon)''. As Brandmeister noted above, 4 of 5 accounts that Vandorenfm mentioned back then turned out later to be socks (], ], ], and ]). So group of sock accounts tag teamed against an established editor with tens of thousands of useful contribs, and then reported him to get him banned. That plan worked back then, but considering that the sock accounts were later exposed, I believe that first ban should be overturned and discounted, because the banned user is not allowed to make any contribs to Misplaced Pages, including filing enforcement reports at this board, and any contribs by the banned users and their socks must be reverted on spot without consideration to their merits. Therefore Brandmeister did not violate any rules by reverting socks, and should not have been banned on the basis of the report by a sock account.


====Statement by (username)====
Now if we look into the present topic ban, we can see that situation appears to be similar to that that led to the first ban. Brandmeister was alone against a group of accounts with less that 500 edits each, which appeared one after another after a long absence to rv the article ]. And I'm not the only one who thinks that the activity of Zimmarod, Oliveriki and 517design in the article ] looks very suspicious. ] agreed "that the history of the article gives the impression that sock- or meatpuppetry may be involved". ] also stated that he believed Zimmarod could be a sock account. Plus Brandmeister was the only one who attempted to discuss and left a comment at talk, while accounts reverting him never bothered to join the discussion. In a situation like this, I don't think that a topic ban (especially such a long one) is justified. ]] 23:30, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
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===Result of the appeal by Brandmeister=== ===Result concerning AstroGuy0===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' :''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*<!--
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:The second diff was before AG0 received a CTOP alert. I've alerted AG0 to other CTOPs that they've edited in, and I am going to warn them for their conduct in diff #1 without prejudice to other admins determining that further action is warranted. ] (]/]) 04:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:I also looked at the source, and it indeed does not in any way support the claim made; it does not mention "Pakistani" even once. This is a fairly new editor, but I think we need to make it very clear to them that misrepresentation of sources is not something we will tolerate. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 04:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
::Given that AstroGuy0 has already been issued a warning, I don't think anything further is necessary, and will close as such unless any uninvolved admin shortly objects. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 18:23, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
{{hab}}


==Lemabeta==
<!-- Please notify the appellant in the event of a successful appeal, in addition to logging it on the case page. ] informs users that "If you appeal this sanction, you remain bound by it until you are notified by an uninvolved administrator that the appeal has been successful."-->
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.-->
*'''Decline appeal, but recommend that the banning administrator reduce the ban duration.''' I was among the uninvolved administrators who expressed support for the original sanction, based on what I said then was a summary review of the complaint and response. To begin with, the statements about alleged misconduct by others are immaterial to whether the sanction against Brandmeister is appropriate or not, and can be disregarded. What matters here is only whether Lord Roem was right to impose a 2-year topic ban for Brandmeister's actions. On reflection, I think that the duration of the ban is disproportionate. The request incorrectly stated that Brandmeister had been blocked for a year and that he had been topic-banned for a year for similar conduct. If that were true, a 2-year ban would have been understandable. But in fact, Brandmeister had only been , by me. It would have been useful if Brandmeister had pointed out this error in his response to the enforcement request, which he did not. Considering that the sanction was imposed for "only" one revert, and that administrators are or were reluctant to impose year-long topic bans in other recent cases for what I consider rather more serious misconduct, namely longterm battleground conduct and intimidation, I think that the ban is disproportionately long, and I recommend that Lord Roem reduce it to a year or less. <p>However, I would not accept the appeal in the sense of overturning the sanction against Lord Roem's will, for the following reasons: In general, administrators enjoy a wide individual discretion in imposing discretionary sanctions, and reviewing authorities other than the Arbitration Committee itself should not interfere with that discretion other than in cases of clear and severe error, which is not the case here. In this specific case, the statement of appeal is additionally problematic in that it does not reflect any understanding for why the conduct for which the ban was imposed was disruptive. <s>Furthermore, the appeal alleges that the complainant, {{user|Zimmarod}}, "subsequently turned out to be a sock". That is not true, in the sense that the account is not blocked as a sock, and I am not aware of (and the appeal does not supply any evidence for) any other authoritative finding that they are a sock. The Arbitration Committee has stated that casting aspersions on others by alleging substantial misconduct on their part (such as socking) without supplying evidence for such allegations is disruptive. Accordingly, I would decline the appeal for that reason alone.</s> <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 18:13, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
::Sorry, I misread that; the appeal apparently refers to {{user|Vandorenfm}}, who ''is'' blocked as a sock. Nonetheless, I don't see how other editors being sockpuppets has any relevance to whether the sanction against Brandmeister for his own action(s) is appropriate. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 21:41, 10 March 2013 (UTC)


===Request concerning Lemabeta===
I wasn't going to comment on this one but since nobody else has for a day or two, I think I will.
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|EF5}} 20:18, 5 January 2025 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Lemabeta}}<p>{{ds/log|Lemabeta}}</p>
I have never been altogether comfortable with the "escalating sanctions" model recommended at some dispute resolution pages (though no longer, it seems, under the wording of the standard discretionary sanctions). The escalating model in my view is akin to the "three strikes and you're out" laws in some US states, where a miscreant can end up with a life sentence for stealing a pizza. Although it is certainly appropriate to utilize the escalating model in some circumstances, as a general rule I am more comfortable with the notion of applying a sanction proportionate to the offence.


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
In this case, my impression is that Lord Roem felt obliged to lay an extended sanction in line with the aforementioned escalating sanctions model, resulting in a two-year ban, but it seems no administrator here really believes the offences were that egregious. In these circumstances, I too would probably favour a reduction to a more proportionate level, particularly since Brandmeister's previous case appears to have been engineered in part by a since banished sockpuppet. Given that the ''effective'' length of any topic ban, if I am not mistaken, is six months (at which time a user can appeal), I would tentatively suggest a reduction to three months this time around. ] (]) 10:57, 12 March 2013 (UTC)


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
*Generally agree with Gatoclass & Sandstein here. A sanction was justified but the length seems too long. It's rare that we see any definite length beyond 1 year and generally (due to what Gatoclass has pointed out re: appeals) bans beyond 12 months tend to be indefinite. So one way or another I would suggest reconsidering the length. While cogniscent of Sandstein's point that we can't force Lord Roem's hand here, like Gatoclass I think something <s>less than a year and closer to 3 months</s> around a year would be more in line with practice, but that is a ''suggestion'' - it is within the sanctioning sysop's discretion to disagree and since none of us are in fact suggesting an overturn of the ban all we can do is suggest a reconsideration of the length--] <sup>]</sup> 15:33, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
*:I struck some of my comment above. Give the history of in 2011 was also based on prior edit warring in 2009. As Sandstein states it is irrelevant that other accounts were single purpose or sock puppets. What is relevant is Brandmeister's long history of sanctions. I still hold that a 2 year ban is an unusal duration but I wouldn't necessarily suggest something as low as 3 months given the full history here--] <sup>]</sup> 15:45, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

== Hgilbert ==

<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br>Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

===Request concerning Hgilbert===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 00:21, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Hgilbert}}

;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ], and ]. With regard to the Waldorf schools topic, Hgilbert was found to have a conflict of interest, to engage in original research, and to use inadequate and inappropriate references. Hgilbert and any other editor with an identified conflict of interest was instructed to follow the guideline at ], which states that COI editors may not perform controversial edits to articles. ] (]) 00:21, 12 March 2013 (UTC)


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
#. Removal of "Pseudoscience" category, with the edit summary of "controversial category", which confirms Hgilbert's knowledge of the disputed nature of this change. Two minutes after he made this change, Hgilbert initiated discussion of the issue at ], rather than first engaging in discussion and gaining consensus.
# - Made a draft on a European ethnic group, which they are currently barred from doing.
#. Removal of negative summary text from the lead section<s>, in support of new editor ] (who has contributed only on three articles, all of which touch upon Waldorf, including a book that likens non-Waldorf schools to Nazism.)</s> Discussion of this material was underway on the talk page, at ]. The negative information was a summary of negative points described in greater detail in the article body, so it was appropriate per ] guideline, but open to discussions of undue weight. Hgilbert acted to remove the disputed text but consensus had not been reached.
#. Removal of an image of the human heart, with negative text in the caption. No discussion. # - Started a page on a Georgian ethnologist.
#. Introduction of inappropriate reference to which includes, in its text, the editorial bracketed note "citation needed". This indicates that K12academics.com is not reliable, that its contributors do not agree on content.
#. Removal of ]' ''ReVision'' reference as "non-peer reviewed journal". One minute later, Hgilbert opened a discussion about this reference, rather than discussing it first and gaining consensus for change.
#. Removal of several article alert templates, including POV and COI. The POV tag was discussed on the talk page between Hgilbert and Jellypear at ], but nobody agreed, or even discussed with Hgilbert, the removal of the COI tag which applied specifically to himself. Nevertheless, he removed it.
#. Removed negative information from cited to professor ] and education expert Richy Thompson of the ]. No discussion.
#. Added a reference about Waldorf governance. The reference is about the Association of Waldorf Schools of North America (AWSNA), but the text that it purportedly supports pertains to global Waldorf/Steiner practices, not just North America. No discussion.
#. Removal of cited text, that makes Steiner look more like a kook. Hgilbert summarizes, "rem. jargon, simplify." No discussion.
#. Removal of the word "pseudoscience" from a section header. No discussion.
:::'''Correction''' 10: . Hgilbert added "Science" to the header of the "Pseudoscience" section. He removed the list of examples found by Jelinek and Sun; ones which reflected very poorly on Waldorf. ] (]) 02:34, 12 March 2013 (UTC)


; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) :
#Warned on by {{user|Binksternet}}


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
*Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : ; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
I likely filed this improperly, but to sum it up they continue to make pages in a scope they were banned from. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 20:25, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
After receiving the warning on 11 March, Hgilbert replied that he thought the ArbCom determination of 2006 had been superseded by a new one (a motion passed on 30 January 2013: ]). As far as I can tell, the conflict-of-interest determination remains in place with regard to editors. The findings about Hgilbert also remain in place. The amendment looks like it replaces only one section of the 2006 ArbCom case, changing "article probation" to "standard discretionary sanctions". I think that Hgilbert is in violation of COI and the 2006 finding naming him specifically, and has been for some weeks now.
:On the bullet point, I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

:(Not sure if I’m allowed to reply here) I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
After I warned him, Hgilbert did not revert the two edits I pointed out as being in violation. This unwillingness to follow the 2006 finding is typical of his behavior. For instance, on 28 November 2012, ] warned Hgilbert about COI , which Hgilbert removed from his talk page but answered at the article talk page: . There, Hgilbert argued against the 2006 finding, saying that he was "no more or less conflicted than an employee of the public school system would be in editing an article on public education." Because this has been a long-running problem, I propose that Hgilbert be topic-banned from Waldorf education article space, broadly construed, but not banned from talk pages, which are not the locus of the problem. ] (]) 00:21, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
:: <small>Response to Bishonen. Moved from results section. ] (]/]) 21:58, 5 January 2025 (UTC)</small>

::(RES to Bishonen) That's fair. When starting the AE, it only gave me nine options, none of which seemed to fit right. The third bullet ("Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on DIFF by _____") didn't seem to fit, as the sanction wasn't for verbal conduct. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 22:05, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : ; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
* of Hgilbert. ] (]) 00:26, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


===Discussion concerning Hgilbert=== ===Discussion concerning Lemabeta===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br>Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> <small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
====Statement by Hgilbert====
I'm happy to have this looked at. At ] the claim was made that I have made massive prejudicial changes since early February, when Alexbrn last edited the article. We could start with this . What massive removals of negative material and additions of positive material have been made over this time frame? (Note that many of the mostly minor changes that have been made were made by other editors.) Also: Note that there was also a ].


====Statement by Lemabeta====
Also: if arbitrators examine ], I think they'll see harmonious discussion on a range of issues, and a readiness to compromise.
Yeah, my bad. Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" I recognize my mistake. --] (]) 20:30, 5 January 2025 (UTC)


:Ethnographic groups and cultural heritage are '''related but distinct concepts'''. An ''ethnographic group'' refers to a '''community of people''' defined by shared ancestry, language, traditions, and cultural identity. In contrast, ''cultural heritage'' refers to the *''practices, artifacts, knowledge, and traditions preserved or inherited from the past''. But cultural heritage is indeed a component of ethnographic groups.
In response to the concrete diffs above (from Binksternet):
:So i don't believe ethnographic group should be considered as either history of the Caucasus or cultural heritage. ] (]) 20:56, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
#] clearly states that categories should not be controversial. See the extensive talk page discussion ], which makes it clear that this category is ''very'' controversial. Summarizing: There is extensive controversy over WE's relationship to pseudoscience, as documented in the article; many educationalists believe that it is a solid educational approach, and some of those who are cited on the pseudoscience side (e.g. Jelinek) support the education generally, but dispute some curriculum content. The discussion deserves to be presented fairly, but it clearly falls foul of the category criteria. In any case, the category was initially removed by another editor, Vittoria Gena . I supported this when the change was reverted.
::In my opinion, cultural heritage (both tangible and intangible) '''emerges from''' ethnographic groups but '''does not define the group itself'''. ] (]) 20:57, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
#I summarized the material in the lead more concisely, trying to preserve the primary discussion themes; see also . The body of the article retains a full discussion of all the topics. The only issue I removed from the lead was the immunization issue, as per a (still undisputed) suggestion of another editor on the ].
:::I think ethnographic groups fall under the category of Ethnography, or even socio-cultural antropology but for sure not cultural heritage. ] (]) 21:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
#The image of the human heart was not closely related to Waldorf education. It had previously been critiqued for this reason.
::::I understand, i already apologized on my talk page for this accident. I will not repeat this mistake again. ] (]) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
#The citation critiqued here is solely used to support the uncontroversial fact that there were 12 Waldorf schools in North America in 1968. This is not a controversial question; though the article is actually cogent, I would not use the source for other purposes, and would have been happy to have looked for a better source had the choice been questioned at any point after I added this text. (In response to concerns raised here, I have now replaced the citation.)
#Why would we want to keep material not supported by its own citation? See discussion about this on the article talk page ], where another editor points out that the article text for which this citation was used turned out to be not remotely supported by it, indicative of a larger problem with whoever added this text originally.
#See the talk page discussion of tagging ]. Neither in the week and a half of discussion prior to the removal of the tags, nor in the week and a half that have passed since, have any objections been made indicating that the tags should be kept. Further: the COI issue had been brought to an ] recently; the conclusion of this proceeding is ]. The arbitrators consciously emphasized that the focus should not be on COIs, but on the policy on reliable sources as a path toward resolution. This distinction has also been raised by an administrator in the ]. After this arbitration proceeding, neither this nor the other tag was under current discussion, which I understand is meant to be a requirement for the tagging.
#This is the only place of all those cited where I actually removed content critical of WE. I have to confess, the theme seemed adequately covered; two paragraphs of material drawn from a single TES article seems to be a violation of ], but I am open to discussion of this.
#This diff shows me adding a single phrase stating that the role of boards of Waldorf schools includes "formulating strategic plans and central policies," with a supportive citation. ] states that organizations are reliable sources for information about their own workings, so long as this is not controversial. If this is highly controversial, feel free to explain why. If you believe it to be particular to North America and want to qualify the sentence to say so, this would be fine. (What's the big deal??)
#The use of jargon was criticized repeatedly by a wide spectrum of editors: ]. Responding to that, I changed this terminology, the meaning of which was unlikely to be easily accessible to the general reader, to more easily comprehensible terminology. It's a little unfair to request that jargon be removed and then criticize when it is removed!
#Rather amusing. The diff indicated shows me adding the term pseudoscience to the section header, not removing it. ] (]) 01:08, 12 March 2013 (UTC)


====Statement by (username)====
In response to IRWolfie's diffs:
#The first diff removed an image which had been contested on the talk page as being unrelated to Waldorf education. This question had been taken to the reliable source noticeboard; the ] was that the image was unrelated to the article, and that the source it was drawn from was an unreliable source. The second diff is removing material referenced the same article, critiqued as not a reliable source by outside editors. Incidentally, this material was later reinstated when we accepted -- despite the outside editor's critique -- that the article, though not peer-reviewed, had some claim to reliable source status. Perhaps this should be reviewed again. IRWolfie further criticizes me for trying to ensure that "all sources have to be peer reviewed"; the requirement that in this and related articles, sources for any controversial material be peer-reviewed, stems from the last arbitration proceeding. I find a critique of my following WP guidelines a little odd.
#This is actually a diff of changes made to a different article. The claim for BD was sourced to an organization named ISIS, which as far as I understood is notable in organic agriculture circles. There was further discussion of this at the time; I believe the material was removed as a result.
#This diff shows a change that kept all relevant text, including the author of the citation, and only took out the name of the book cited, which is easily found in the reference. This follows standard WP practice; we don't usually mention (inline) the name of the books or journal articles referenced in discussions of this source.
#These are critiques of my attempting to remove material sourced to a blog, in accordance with clear WP policy. Again IRWolfie critiques me for trying to ensure that sources for controversial material are peer-reviewed, in accordance with the very clear arbitration guidelines laid down for this article. (I am puzzled.) Incidentally, if you read the diff claimed to be calling for "tag teaming", I had made an erroneous reversion (to the wrong version) and was requesting help to sort this out.
#IRWolfie is right here; the citation contains an extract from a WP article, which I had not noticed, and should be removed. (I will do this.) '''Done'''

In response to A13ean:
#According to ], sources are not less usable merely because they are "difficult to access academic sources" (!!) Nor does a source's being written in a foreign language have any bearing. Much was made about using only very high quality sources about WE, and some of these will tend to be in German by the nature of the beast.
#authors with some connection to Waldorf education were not excluded by the original arbitration proceeding, which required that, regardless of the author, works be peer-reviewed, rather than ''published'' by Waldorf publishers, but emphasized that this would especially be true for those involved in the movement. Peer review and the general standards for RSs are the point.
#Steiner's own writings were explicitly excluded by the original arbitration proceedings however, at least when controversial; we were required to use secondary sources evaluating his thinking instead, for reasons that were amply clear at the time.
#I will not respond to each diff, but as an example of the misrepresentations presented here, the claim that I changed "Biodynamic agriculture has been characterized as pseudoscience by scholars" to "Biodynamic agriculture has been the subject of serious scientific study" is false. I changed a "criticism" section to a "reception" section in line with WP guidelines on ] sections, and added additional text without removing the pseudoscience attribution. ] (]) 20:42, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

More generally: I have been striving to bring a neutral point of view in a situation that has been historically, and continues to be, highly polarized. There are a number of editors who seem primarily interested in bringing negative critiques into the article, and others who primarily interested in positive views. There are virtually no neutral voices. I have been trying to keep to the RS policy as the path forward. As a result, a number of questions have been brought to the RS noticeboard recently; Looking at the ], it seems clear that the mood is generally of fruitful discussion. I believe I consistently seek a positive solution and am willing to use consensus and compromise, respecting all points of view. ] (]) 02:21, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

*Images
The two images (of Lemuria and the human heart) were added by ], following a persistent pattern of POI-pushing on the critics' side.

*COI tag
In defense of the removal of COI tagging--which I grant is not normally a good idea:
#since the tagging there had been an arbitration which had found that the COI I was accused of was not relevant to the case (pointing us to RS policy instead)
#after I proposed removing the two tags, NPOV and COI, there had been a week and a half of discussion in which no one spoke up against this removal (nor has anyone questioned the removal on the talk page since)

Nevertheless, I clearly should have requested others to remove it rather than removing it myself. I apologize. ] (]) 10:27, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

#The recent arbitration discussion I refer to is (see second half of page). Though COI issues were raised by editors offering opinions, not one of the arbitrators mentions these issues in either the ''Arbitrator views and discussion'' or ''Motion: Waldorf education discretionary sanctions''. They urge us to focus on reliable sources: "the original ruling has long been overtaken by our evolving policies on reliable sourcing".
#As ] mentions below, s/he had also explicitly stated at WP:ANI that "the thing to concentrate on why the edits were bad or controversial, not whether or not the editor has a COI. Concentrating on the COI misses the point because someone is not going to be blocked simply because they were editing when they had a COI, even if the edits were controversial and many question whether the COI should even come in to the block (perhaps the length of the block only). As Hgilbert mentioned, this has been reaffirmed in other cases." I assumed from Nil Einne's contribution at ANI that this editor is an administrator and took his/her comments on the case to be clear direction that we should focus on issues such as RS, NPOV, and working on consensus.

Due to the above rulings and comments by admins, and the complete lack of dissent to the removal of the COI tag when I raised this, I understood that the removal was both in line with the current understanding of the article sanctions and undisputed. I'm shocked that users who had a chance to question the suggested removal on the talk page, and did not, are raising this as an issue here. (Having said this, I still recognize that someone else should have been the one to take the tag off.) ] (]) 13:26, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

*Discretionary sanctions
The text of the discretionary sanctions states: "Any uninvolved administrator may, on his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working on a page within the area of conflict (or for whom discretionary sanctions have otherwise been authorized) if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process. The sanctions imposed may include blocks of up to one year in length; bans from editing any page or set of pages within the area of conflict; bans on any editing related to a topic within the area of conflict or its closely related topics; restrictions on reverts or other specified behaviors; imposition of mandated external review; or any other measures which the imposing administrator believes are reasonably necessary to ensure the smooth functioning of the project."

I believe I have adhered to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, consistently followed consensus processes (look at the talk page for confirmation), and applied the RS policy at a high standard. Again, I ask: examine the , and the discussions on the ] over this time (or before): what in this constitutes any contravention whatsoever of the discretionary sanctions? ] (]) 10:18, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

====Statement by IRWolfie-====
{{collapse top|Comment with several diffs and links demonstrating a long term civil POV push}}
Older diffs, showing long term issue with regards to Steiner:
* Removing source with odd reasoning. The removed source itself which is given a large paragraph in {{cite journal|last=Østergaard|first=Edvin|coauthors=Dahlin, Bo; Hugo, Aksel|title=Doing phenomenology in science education: a research review|journal=Studies in Science Education|date=1 September 2008|volume=44|issue=2|pages=93–121|doi=10.1080/03057260802264081}}. Removing use of the source again: . Trying to remove more critical sources by claiming all sources have to be peer reviewed: ]
* Adding puffery from an otherwise unreliable advocacy source:
* Removing mention of an encyclopedia of pseudoscience as "promotional":
* Canvassing specific editors: after removing mainstream criticism from a professor of pharmacology: . Asking one of said editors to tag team: . More canvassing issues:

Hgilbert is a case of long term (very long term), and slow dedicated POV pushing across all Steiner topics. It's not something that can be easily shown with diffs. It's an accumulation of incidents like the above, and small things like making a point that being listed in an encyclopedia of pseudoscience isn't the same as being listed as pseudoscience in an encyclopedia ]. Arguing via original research to not have biodynamic agriculture be described as being characterized as pseudoscience : ], arguing that there is a lack of sources ] while having been present in a discussion where multiple sources were presented: ]. These small niggly things all add up over the years though, leading to white washed articles. ] (]) 01:31, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
{{collapse bottom}}

* On point 4 raised by Binksternet. used here by Hgilbert, is a copy and paste of ]. That Hgilbert didn't spot that the source he was citing, which was probably his very own words since he wrote the initial Waldort history article, was copied off wikipedia should speak volumes about Hgilbert's use of sourcing, ] (]) 01:43, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

* Hgilbert, if you did make an erroneous revert, why didn't you just revert yourself? Or do you acknowledge that you were bypassing 3RR by asking another editor to do it for you? I am also aware that the diffs don't exclusively cover Waldorf, my point is that you are problematic with edits related to Steiner broadly construed (which should fall under fringe DS). ] (]) 10:37, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

* @Sandstein, he non-Waldorf diffs I've shown here show a pattern of behaviour within fringe science, perhaps Hgilbert could be officially warned about discretionary sanctions within Fringe science and pseudoscience broadly construed (under this case ])? ] (]) 10:47, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

@Hgilbert, showing a diff over an extended period is meaningless. If I had shown, for example and said that people should spot the problem in the text, it would ignore the fact that someone went 3RR in that same period. A single Diff grouping actions from many editors won't show anything here if the other editors have been dealing with the problems you have caused, we have to look at ''your'' edits, ] (]) 15:26, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
::Also, blogs are reliable for the opinions of the author. If they are not used in the wikipedia tone, then they are reliable for the text they cite. ] (]) 15:36, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

====Statement by Alexbrn====

More diffs showing long-term POV pushing. Hgilbert's edits are a constant lapping tide, continually eroding the article's neutrality:

:* removing text that bears on the crucial question of whether Waldorf education is religious (crucial, from a COI perspective, because American state funding relies on it not being). When ] Hgilbert stated this had been an error and reinstated this text.
:* inserting into the lead a claim of universal fact, that research has found Waldorf education to "to foster a high degree of social competency", ignoring the express caveats and limitations of the sources (discussion ]).
:* making another claim of fact about the "conclusion" of a research report, ignoring the tentative and caveated nature of the original's (inconclusive) text (discussion ]).
:* removing a &#x7b;{rs}} tag from a data analysis claim sourced to the web site on the grounds that it is a "well-established news outlet".
:* inserting (in 2006!) a claim that UNESCO had praised a Waldorf organization as being "of tremendous consequence in the conquest of apartheid", and sourcing it to a UNESCO document and to a polemical piece in a non-RS publication. The problem: the quotation appears to have been completely fabricated by the non-RS source - it's not in the UNESCO document.
:* inserting (in 2007!) a claim of fact that Australian Waldorf students have been found to outperform all others at University (Hgilbert also recently this content). On ] it turns out this brave claim is sourced to an interview with a Masters student on an Australian local radio station who "] was about to publish his thesis".
] <sup>]|]|]</sup> 05:51, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

====Statement by Nil Einne====
This is mostly an aside to the case and I pointed it out at WP:ANI but it seems it's not getting across so I'll mention it again. Our COI policy does not forbid people with a COI from making controversial edits. Rather it strongly discourages people with a COI from making edits (for a number of reasons), particularly those who can be regarded as paid avocates, but says making uncontroversial edits may be okay. This was basically what the arbcom case said as well. When we say 'strongly discourage' we mean it, we strongly discourage it but we don't forbid it. This isn't like a political case where someone says 'strongly discourage/encourage' but what they actual mean is 'do or don't do this or else'. This is an important distinction because as I also remarked in the ANI, the thing to concentrate on why the edits were bad or controversial, not whether or not the editor has a COI. Concentrating on the COI misses the point because someone is not going to be blocked simply because they were editing when they had a COI, even if the edits were controversial and many question whether the COI should even come in to the block (perhaps the length of the block only). As Hgilbert mentioned, this has been reaffirmed in other cases. ] (]) 08:27, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

====Statement by Jellypear====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> <!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
I would like to take this opportunity to point out that in the approximately two months that I have been following the Waldorf education page, ] has been involved in trying to apply sanctions to ] twice already. I view this as harrassing behavior of an individual when what is really needed is productive discussion and consensus building using wikipedia guidelines and policies as our foundation for conversation. I am not going to go through the long list of diffs ] provided other than to concur with ] (below) that the edits were generally reasonable because of ] or ] issues. It appears to me that the preferred tactic for dealing with ] on the part of some editors is to not discuss his edits in a timely manner and instead collect a list of complaints and see what sticks. There was ''ample opportunity'' for other editors to chime in and discuss why the COI tag should not be removed. In fact, I personally solicited it. There were also ample opportunities to discuss various edits and a few of them (ie., the heart image) had been discussed at length previously. You, ], reverted many attempts to remove the Lemuria and Heart images that ] inserted which is one of the reasons why the heart image still remained after having been discussed to the point of ].


===Result concerning Lemabeta===
Discussion is the appropriate means through which one ought to deal with an editor who doesn't share your viewpoint. The image of the heart ''did'' violate image pertinence guidelines. And, it is unclear if anyone other than Eugenie Scott (as cited in the Chicago Tribune), ] and the BHA hold the opinion that "Waldorf education itself is pseudoscientific." These views alone do not indicate sufficient consensus such that a possibly inflammatory category should be applied to this topic. However, all of these issues can - and should be - discussed without making it about the editors themselves. That is what we have wiki policies for. If editors don't like what they see on this page the answer is to consult the applicable wiki policies, make an edit that applies the policy and then discuss it if there is a conflict. If you are solid in your sourcing and policies, the page will start to read as you want it to. Trying to get other editors sanctioned or banned is the lazy way to make this page reflect your viewpoint (not that this ''should be'' your goal anyway). ] (]) 14:57, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''

<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
====Statement by a13ean====
*<!--
Hgilbert seems like a pretty nice guy, and over the past eight years and (at the time of writing) exactly 10k edits, has made many positive contributions to wikipedia. However, he has also continually and consistently pushed a POV at pages related to the works of Rudolph Steiner, which he almost exclusively edits.
-->

* I don't see Lemabeta mentioned in the case itself, but they're currently under ] from "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed". ] (] • she/her) 20:26, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
Not all the complaints brought here have merit; the heart and Lemuria images in particular shouldn't have been in the article (although there's images in the article with even less context). Similarly not everyone here has clean hands with regard to editing in this area, and anyone is of course welcome to investigate my conduct in this area. However, Hgilbert in particular has continued to inappropriately push a POV despite repeated warnings. I previously laid out my concerns and include my selection of diffs below for reference. HGilbert's response at that time can be seen .
*:To be fair, when you click above to add a new enforcement request, the template states:<br><nowiki>;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]</nowiki><br><nowiki><!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---></nowiki> ] (]/]) 20:32, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

*{{tq| Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed"}} @]: what did you think "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage" meant? I think it's pretty obvious that that an article on an ethnic group from the Caucasus and about an ethnologist who writes about that region is covered by your topic ban. ] (]/]) 20:37, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
{{cot|Several diffs illustrating civil pov-pushing}}
*:Note that I've deleted ] as a clear G5 violation. I think ] is a bit more of a questionable G5. ] (]/]) 20:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
HGilbert at ]
*:Your definition of "ethnographic group" includes the phrases "shared ancestry" (i.e., history), and "shared&nbsp;... traditions" and "shared&nbsp;... cultural identity" (i.e., cultural heritage). Your attempt to exclude "ethnographic group" from either of the two categories in your topic ban is entirely unpersuasive, particularly since your topic ban is to be "broadly construed". ] (]/]) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
A selection of diffs made to WE ''in the past month''
*:@]: this doesn't seem like a mistake to me, but I'm okay with a logged warning here. ] (]/]) 21:29, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
* Replaces a sourced statement that "the topic of best teaching practice is controversial" with a paragraph saying that Waldorf kindergartens were granted a exemption from some UK guidelines on reading
*:@]: This is about violating the TBAN. Per my response to leek, I think the issue is with the AE request template, which is a bit unclear. ] (]/]) 22:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*Restores a paragraph sourced to a '']'' article, which cherry-picks several positive points from a much more nuanced article, as discussed ]. This was previously discussed
*:@]: I don't think a block is needed here, but the next violation, definitely. ] (]/]) 22:06, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
* Broadly changes the characterization of a source
*:@]: They were "reviously given&nbsp;... contentious topic restriction", the topic ban at issue. ] (]/]) 22:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
* Adds a broad-reaching statement sourced to a study of three classrooms in a non-reviewed research report as discussed ]
* {{re|Lemabeta}} Not every single thing you could write about an ethnic group would fall under cultural history, but that's not really relevant on the Rachvelians page, where the History section was entirely about their cultural history, even containing the words {{tqq| highlighting their ethnographic and cultural identity}}. There's a reason we use the words "]" on most TBANs, and a reason we encourage people to act like they're TBANned from a broader area than they are. (Consider: Would you feel safe driving under a bridge where clearance is exactly the same height as your vehicle? Or would you need a few inches' gap to feel safe doing it?){{pb}}This does seem like a good-faith misunderstanding, so if you will commit to not making it again in the future, I think this can be closed with a clarification/warning. But that's an important "if". If you want to argue semantics, then the message that sends to admins is that you don't intend to comply with the TBAN, in which case the next step would be a siteblock. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 21:10, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
* Restores broadly un-encyclopedic language from a book written by an author with close ties to the WE movement, in violation of the arbitration guidelines: "Heiner Ullrich, who visited a number of schools in a long-term study, found that Waldorf schools successfully foster dedication, openness, and a love for other human beings, for nature, and for the inanimate world."
*{{u|EF5}}, I don't understand your {{tq|"Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above"}} statement, can you please explain what it refers to? ]? Lemabeta's block log is blank.
* Removes a rs tag from a non-reviewed book source from someone closely involved with the WE movement (as explicitly disallowed by the arbitration case)
:That said, I'm unimpressed by Lemabeta's lawyerly distinctions above, and also by ]. I'll AGF that they ''were'' accidental, but OTOH, they surely ''ought'' to have taken enough care to realize they were violations; compare Voorts' examples. I suggest a block, not sure of what length. A couple of weeks? ] &#124; ] 21:36, 5 January 2025 (UTC).
* Removes a self-characterization that might reflect negatively on Steiner, sourced to his book, citing the arbitration guidelines
::{{u|EF5}}, OK, I see. Blocks and bans are ], and the block log only logs blocks. ] &#124; ] 22:02, 5 January 2025 (UTC).
Hgilbert has also made nearly 700 edits to the article talk page, the tone of which is best observed by browsing through the archives.

Hgilbert at ]
* Removes with edit summary of "an ex-professor's newspaper editorial is not a reputable source", although the source is a full-length investigative article
* Removes a characterization of "pseudoscience" and broadly pushes a more positive tone.
* Changes "Biodynamic agriculture has been characterized as pseudoscience by scholars" to "Biodynamic agriculture has been the subject of serious scientific study"
* Removes pseudoscience cat with misleading edit summary
* Cherrypicks random facts from a study, discussed ]
* Removes pseudoscience from the lead
* Claims that appearing in an encyclopedia of pseudoscience does not pseudoscience make, discussion
*Prior to many of these removals, HGilbert had agreed on the label in
*In response to other editors concerns about non-reviewed technical publications, he attempts to make a ] by suggesting the removal of several RS publications as sources ]

Other edits by Hglibert
* Removes Biodynamic Agriculture from ] with the edit summary "not termed pseudoscientific by any quoted source", quotes from the sources used are detailed
*Similarly to remove AM from the same list and then
*Removes mentions of pseudoscience from numerous articles and even removed a mention of homeopathy from the article on pseudoscience .
{{cob}}

Of particular concern to me is misrepresentation and cherry-picking of positive material from sources, especially foreign-language and difficult to access academic sources; compare for example the article in Die Welt linked above to what it was used to source. Removing tags, misleading edit summaries, and canvassing ( ) are also a continued concern as noted above and by others. I am sure he could contribute positively to wikipedia in other areas, but I feel that his edits to these controversial areas have not, in net, helped build a better encyclopedia.

====Statement by other editor====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

===Result concerning Hgilbert===
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
<small>''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''</small>

I haven't yet made my way through all the evidence, but I might make a couple of initial observations. Firstly, topics concerning pseudoscience are problematic IMO not only because there are advocates on one side of the fence who try to promote their favoured theories, but also because there are sceptics on the other side who actively try to use Misplaced Pages as a vehicle for discrediting the same. Both approaches violate core policy and are potentially sanctionable, and a preliminary look at the evidence suggests a degree of problematic editing on both sides in this particular article, though I am yet to form an opinion as to whether any of it is sufficiently serious to warrant sanctions.

Secondly, while Hgilbert was found to have a COI at the original case, there is a difference between COI and paid advocacy, and no-one has accused Hgilbert of the latter. AFAIK there is no compunction on editors with a mere COI to discuss changes to articles prior to making them, so Binksternet's calls for sanctions based on that criterion alone don't appear to be actionable.

I expect to have more to say about the particular diffs a little later. ] (]) 06:44, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

: Okay, I have finished a preliminary review of the evidence. Some of the diffs are very old and not actionable. A lot of others involve discussions about reliability of sources which would be difficult to resolve here in a timely manner, if at all, and with regard to most of these diffs no evidence of edit warring has been presented. That leaves a relatively small number of diffs to take a closer look at.

: Firstly, where Hgilbert removes a COI tag from the ] article. I can't think of any good reason why a user found by ARBCOM to have a COI in a given topic area should be taking it upon himself to remove such tags from an article in that topic area on which the user in question is or has been active. That alone I would consider to be a sanctionable offence. Secondly, where Hgilbert adds content from a source which labels that very content with a "citation needed" tag. Hgilbert was cited for use of questionable sources in the original case, though that occurred a long time ago, and he needs to ensure that content is properly cited per ]. Since Hgilbert has not previously been blocked or banned for inappropriate editing in the six years since the original case, I think a warning would probably suffice here. For removing the COI tag, I would suggest a one month topic ban for a first offence, with a warning that escalating sanctions may apply for future offences.

:One further comment: while some of Hgilbert's edits may indeed be problematic, so too IMO is some of the content he has been removing, for example, an image of a human heart and an image of the "mythical continent of Lemuria". Misuse of images, quoteboxes etc. to highlight prejudicial content as a method of circumventing ] is a typical tactic of POV-pushers, and these images also strike me as violations of ] as their immediate relevance to the article topic is questionable. Some of the other diffs also indicate similar problems. I don't know who added these images or when they were added, but warnings might also be appropriate here. Anyway that pretty much summarizes my initial response to this request; I invite further commentary from my colleagues. ] (]) 08:27, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

@Hgilbert: You would have to point me to the case in which "an arbitration" found your COI was not relevant before I could reconsider the above recommendation. Thanks, ] (]) 11:15, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

:After checking only whether the formal requirements for arbitration enforcement are met, it appears that all edits submitted as evidence were made prior to the warning of 11 March 2013 by Binksternet that is cited in the request. In my view, this rules out imposing sanctions based on these edits. Additionally, the diff of that warning does not meet the requirements of ], because it does not contain a link to the decision authorizing sanctions. (Yes, Hgilbert was a party to the original case, but the wording of WP:AC/DS does not make an exception to the requirement for a warning for such editors.) Accordingly, it seems that, based on the situation as described in the request, the most that we are authorized to do is issue correct warnings to all who may need them. (I also note that the request is 739 words long and needs to be shortened.) <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 18:58, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
*Regarding the date of any proper warning of the DS to Hgilbert: I would nominate this to Hgilbert, notifying him of the motion just passed. This edit happened on 30 January 2013. ] (]) 19:13, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
:*Well... yes, but that is a "courtesy notice" about a motion imposing discretionary sanctions, not a "warning" as required by ]. Sorry if I appear to be splitting procedural hairs here, or in the request concerning Soosim above, but I feel that is important that we are conservative in interpreting the boundaries of the wording of the provisions that authorize us to impose wide-ranging sanctions at our own discretion. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 20:17, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
::: I have always assumed that ] was intended to apply to users not party to the original case. This is because the warning in effect formally notifies users that discretionary sanctions apply. For users party to the original case, the warning is not necessary because they obviously already ''know'' that discretionary sanctions apply. ] (]) 04:59, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
:::: That is a reasonable assumption. (In this case, DS were added later, but Hgilbert was notified of that, as EdJohnston mentioned above.) It's just that I personally prefer to err on the side of caution. I understand that {{user|AGK}} is working on motions to clarify that DS require only a notification rather than a warning about the case. I prefer to wait on that clarification, but you are of course free to proceed as you deem appropriate. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 05:41, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

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    PerspicazHistorian

    PerspicazHistorian is blocked indefinitely from mainspace. Seraphimblade 03:34, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning PerspicazHistorian

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    NXcrypto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    PerspicazHistorian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBIPA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 17:57, 18 December 2024 - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of Hindutva (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead.
    2. 17:59, 18 December 2024 - tag bombed the highly vetted Hindutva article without any discussion or reason
    3. 10:15, 18 December 2024 - attributing castes to people withhout any sources
    4. 12:11, 18 December 2024 - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting reverted
    5. 17:09, 18 December 2024 - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources
    6. 18:29, 18 December 2024 - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation
    7. 14:46, 19 December 2024 (UTC) - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP."
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    • Already 2 blocks in last 4 months for edit warring.
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. Nxcrypto Message 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit here by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to MOS:TERRORIST. Nxcrypto Message 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by PerspicazHistorian

    • By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu Page.

    I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before User: Ratnahastin told me about this: User_talk:PerspicazHistorian. Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.

    • In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to Edit_warring#What_edit_warring_is it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of Misplaced Pages:BOLD,_revert,_discuss_cycle.
    • As a clarification to my edit on Students' Islamic Movement of India, it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this edit. I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong.
    @Valereee, Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in Misplaced Pages:Edit warring#What edit warring is#Other revert rules. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! PerspicazHistorian (talk) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Yes, I will commit to that. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. Seraphimblade 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when Satish R. Devane was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Hi @Doug Weller , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me.
    P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.Valereee (talk) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    • 1) I just asked an user @Fylindfotberserk if the page move is possible. What's wrong with it? I still have not considered putting a move request on talk page of article.
    2) Many of other sources are not raj era. Moreover I myself have deleted the content way before you pointing this out. Thank You ! PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    even @NXcrypto is seen engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics. see1see2 PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:37, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    as mentioned by @Valereee before, Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here. You can discuss content related topics on talk pages of articles rather than personally targeting a user here in enforcement. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    @Valereee I once filed a complaint to find it @NXcrypto is a sock (out of a misunderstanding, as all were teamed up similarly on various pages). I think he felt it as a personal attack by me and filed this request for enforcement. Please interfere. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:47, 29 December 2024 (UTC) moving to correct section Valereee (talk) 13:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    1)Yes I usually edit on RSS related topics, but to ensure a democratic view is maintained as many socks try to disrupt such articles. Even on Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh page, I just edited on request of talk page and added a graph. I don't think its a POV push.
    2) My main interest in editing is Hinduism and Indian History topics.
    3)There have been certain cases in past where I was blocked but if studied carefully they were result of me edit warring with socks(although, through guidance of various experienced editors and admins I learnt a SPI should be filed first). I have learnt a lot in my journey and there have been nearly zero case of me of edit warring this month.
    Please do not block me. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 14:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Valereee I beg apologies for the inconvenience caused, thanks for correcting me. I will now reply in my own statement section. @Bishonen I am a quick learner and professionally competent to edit in this encyclopedic space. Please consider reviewing this enforcement if its an counter-attack on me as mentioned in my previous replies. You all are experienced editors and I have good faith in your decision-making capability.PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Vanamonde93@Bishonen I have edited content marked as "original research" and "mess" by you, I am ready to help removing any content that might be considered "poorly sourced" by the community. Please don't block me.PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Valereee This enforcement started for edit-warring and now I feel its more concerned to my edited content(which I agree to cooperate and change wherever needed). After learning about edit wars, there has been no instance of me edit-warring, Please consider my request.--PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
      @Valereee I am not a slow learner, I understand the concerns of all admins here. I will try my best to add only reliable sources, and discuss content in all talk pages, as I already mentioned here. PPicazHist (talk) 12:55, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
      @Valereee@UtherSRG I think admins should focus more on encouraging editors when they do good and correct when mistaken. I have made many edits, added many citations and created much articles which use fine citations. The enforcement started out of retaliation by nxcrypto, now moving towards banning me anyways. I started editing out of passion, and doing it here on wiki unlike those who come here just for pov pushes and disrupt article space(talking about socks and vandalizers on contentious Indian topics).
      The article prasada doesn't only has issue on citations, but the whole article is copypasted from the citations I added. I just wanted to point that out. Remaining about Misplaced Pages:CIR, I am currently pursuing Btech in cs from IIT delhi, idt I am a slow learner by any means. Still, happy new year to all ! PPicazHist (talk) 14:01, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
      @UtherSRG You mean to say, "The prasada is to be consumed by attendees as a holy offering. The offerings may include cooked food, fruits and confectionery sweets. Vegetarian food is usually offered and later distributed to the devotees who are present in the temple. Sometimes this vegetarian offering will exclude prohibited items such as garlic, onion, mushroom, etc. " is not copy pasted by this website? Is this also a wiki mirror website? How would you feel if I doubt your competence now? PPicazHist (talk) 14:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
      @ UtherSRG I just asked others to share their opinion in the enforcement. With all due respect, I don't think its wrong in any sense. PPicazHist (talk) 15:13, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
      To all the admins involved here,
      • I agree to keep learning and apologize if my previous edits/replies have annoyed the admins.
      • I have not edit warred since a month and please see it as my willingness to keep learning and getting better.
      • Please give me a chance, I understand concern of you all and respect your opinion in the matter. But please don't block me from editing from main article space. I promise that I will abide by all the rules and will learn from other editors.
      PPicazHist (talk) 15:22, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by LukeEmily

    PerspicazHistorian also violated WP:BRD by engaging in an edit war with Ratnahastin who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.LukeEmily (talk)

    Statement by Doug Weller

    I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and User:Deb's comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving Draft:Satish R. Devane to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. Deb (talk) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. Doug Weller talk 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... Doug Weller talk 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Toddy1

    This is another editor who appears to have pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views. I dislike those views, but find it rather alarming that Misplaced Pages should seek to censor those views, but not the views of the political opponents. Imagine the outrage if we sought to topic-ban anyone who expressed pro-Republican views, but allowed Democrat-activists to say whatever they liked.

    A lot of pro-RSS/BJP editors turn out to be sock-puppets, so please can we do a checkuser on this account. And to be even-handed, why not checkuser NXcrypto too.

    If we want to talk about WP:CIR when editors make mistakes, look at the diff given by NXcrypto for "Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested" - it is the wrong diff. He/she did notify PerspicazHistorian - but the correct diff is .

    A topic ban from Indian topics would be unhelpful, unless given to both parties. Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India. Loading the dice against BJP and RSS editors will turn Misplaced Pages into a fringe encyclopaedia on Indian topics.

    I can see a good case for restricting PerspicazHistorian to draft articles and talk pages for a month, and suggesting that he/she seeks advice from more experienced editors. Another solution would be a one-revert rule to last six months.-- Toddy1 (talk) 13:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Capitals00

    I find the comment from Toddy1 to be entirely outrageous. What are you trying to tell by saying "Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India"? If you want us to entertain those who are in power, then we could never have an article like False or misleading statements by Donald Trump.

    You cannot ask topic ban for both editors without having any evidence of misconduct. Same way, you cannot ask CU on either user only for your own mental relief. It is a high time that you should strike your comment, since you are falsely accusing others that they "seek to censor" this editor due to his "pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views". You should strike your comment. If you cannot do that, then I am sure WP:BOOMERANG is coming for you. Capitals00 (talk) 15:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Vanamonde93

    Toddy1: I, too, am baffled by your comment. We don't ban editors based on their POV; but we do ban editors who fail to follow our PAGs, and we certainly don't make excuses for editors who fail to follow our guidelines based on their POV. You seem to be suggesting we cut PH some slack because of their political position, and I find that deeply inappropriate. Among other things, I don't believe they have publicly stated anywhere that they support the BJP or the RSS, and we cannot make assumptions about them.

    That said, the fact that this was still open prompted me to spot-check PH's contributions, and I find a lot to be concerned about. This edit is from 29 December, and appears to be entirely original research; I cannot access all of the sources, but snippet search does not bear out the content added, and the Raj era source for the first sentence certainly does not support the content it was used for. Baji Pasalkar, entirely authored by PH, is full of puffery ("first to sacrifice his life for the cause of Swarajya", and poor sources (like this blog, and this book, whose blurb I leave you to judge), from which most of the article appears to be drawn. Appa (title), also entirely authored by PH, has original research in its very first sentence; the sources that I can access give passing mention to people whose names include the suffix "appa", and thus could perhaps be examples of usage, but the sources most certainly do not bear out the claim.

    I will note in fairness that I cannot access all the sources for the content I checked. But after spotchecking a dozen examples I have yet to find content PH wrote that was borne out by a reliable source, so I believe skepticism is justified. We are in territory where other editors may need to spend days cleaning up some of this writing. Bishonen If we're in CIR territory, just a normal indefinite block seems cleanest, surely? Or were you hoping that PH would help clean up their mess, perhaps by providing quotes from sources? That could be a pathway to contributing productively, but I'm not holding my breath. Vanamonde93 (talk) 18:00, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Thanks Bish: I agree, as my exchanges with PH today, in response to my first post here, have not inspired confidence. . Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by UtherSRG

    I've mostly dealt with PH around Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Ankur Warikoo (2nd nomination). They do not seem to have the ability to read and understand our policies and processes. As such, a t-ban is too weak. The minimum I would support is a p-block as suggested below, though a full indef is also acceptable. They could then ask for the standard offer when they can demonstrate they no longer have WP:CIR issues. - UtherSRG (talk) 20:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

    Based on these two edits, I'm more strongly leaning towards indef. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:27, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    They now indicate they believe the article they edited was copied from one of the websites they used as a reference, when in reality the website is a mirror/scrape of the Misplaced Pages article. I believe we are firmly in WP:CIR territory here. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    This is a mirror of the Misplaced Pages article. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:29, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

    Result concerning PerspicazHistorian

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

    PerspicazHistorian, can you explain your understanding of WP:edit warring and the WP:3RR rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring even if they aren't breaking 3RR. Valereee (talk) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    @PerspicazHistorian, that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is the first time someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that?
    Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is WP:ORIGINAL RESEARCH; in their revert NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here. Valereee (talk) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    I'm seeing this as a CIR issue. I'd like input from other admins, if possible. I'm a little concerned that setting a tban from IPA is just setting a trap. Maybe a p-block from article space would be a kinder way to allow them to gain some experience? Valereee (talk) 13:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    @PerspicazHistorian, have you seen how many times I or others have had to move your comments to your own section? This is an example of not having enough experience to edit productively. Please do not post in anyone else's section again. Valereee (talk) 16:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    I do agree we're in CIR territory, and the concerns expressed are completely valid. I don't think this editor is ill-intentioned. They just don't seem very motivated to learn quickly. Well-intentioned-but-a-slow-learner is something that can only be fixed by actually practicing what you're bad at. I'd prefer an indef from article space which gives them one more chance to learn here before we send them off to mr.wiki or Simple English to try to learn. Not a hill I'm going to die on, though. Valereee (talk) 11:36, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    @PerspicazHistorian, like Uther I have major concerns about the edit you made yesterday, which included replacing a citation needed tag with these sources. The first is a company that markets astrology services. The second is the site for a religious sect. Neither is a reliable source for explaining the concept of prasada in Wikivoice. You made this edit yesterday, after you'd confirmed here and on my talk that you understood sourcing policy.
    The reason for an indef from article space is to allow you to learn this policy: You would go into article talk and suggest sources to fix citation needed tags. Another editor would have to agree with you that the sources are reliable before they'd add them. Valereee (talk) 12:51, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    • A tban from IPA for PerspicazHistorian would be a relief to many editors trying to keep this difficult area in reasonable shape. However, Valereee makes a good point about 'setting a trap': it's doubtful that PH would be able to keep to a tban even if they tried in good faith. I would therefore support a p-block from article space. Bishonen | tålk 16:48, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
      Vanamonde93, no, I don't really think PH can usefully help clean up their mess; I was following Valereee, who has been going into this in some depth, in attempting to keep some way of editing Misplaced Pages open for PH. It's a bit of a counsel of desperation, though; there is very little daylight between an indef and a p-block from article space. Yes, we are in CIR territory; just look at PH's recent supposed evidence on this page for NXcrypto being "engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics": one diff of an opponent complaining on NXcrypto's page, and one diff of somebody reverting NXcrypto. What do those actually prove? That NXcrypto has opponents (big surprise). So, yes, as you suggest, I'll support an indef as well. Bishonen | tålk 20:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
    • Is there a length of time proposed for the p-ban or would it be indefinite? Barkeep49 (talk) 17:06, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
      I would say indefinite; not infinite, but I'd be wary about letting them back into articlespace without some kind of preclearance. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 18:39, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    • It looks to me like there is a consensus for an indefinite partial block for PerspicazHistorian from article space. Unless any uninvolved admin objects within a day or so, I will close as such. Seraphimblade 06:31, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
      Given PH's recent slew of requests on multiple admin talk pages, yes, please do. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:58, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

    References

    1. "Significance of Different Type of Prasad in Hinduism For God". GaneshaSpeaks. Retrieved 2024-12-30.
    2. "What Is Prashad". Shree Swaminarayan Mandir Bhuj. Retrieved 2024-12-30.

    LaylaCares

    There is consensus to remove LaylaCares's EC flag. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning LaylaCares

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Vice regent (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    LaylaCares (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/ARBPIA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 13:54, December 17, 2024 EC gaming


    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Pretty obvious case of EC gaming. Account created on Nov 17, 2024, then about 500 mostly minor edits followed by the first substantial edit ever was the creation of this article on Dec 17 (subsequently moved to draftspace).VR (Please ping on reply) 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning LaylaCares

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by LaylaCares

    Statement by Aquillion

    Question: Assuming it's determined that they gamed the extended-confirmed restriction, would the page they created be WP:G5-able? I've asked the relevant question in more detail on the CSD talk page, since it is likely to come up again as long as we have such a broad restriction on effect, but I figured it was worth mentioning the issue here as well. --Aquillion (talk) 14:16, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by Dan Murphy

    Please look at Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations, written by the account under discussion. It's a hit job, originally placed in mainspace by this account. Anyone who wrote that shouldn't be allowed with 1 million miles of the topic.Dan Murphy (talk) 23:14, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by starship.paint

    I've edited Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations, so Dan Murphy's link is inaccurate for the purposes of this discussion. For the version of Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations with content only written by LaylaCares, click this link. starship.paint (talk / cont) 10:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning LaylaCares

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I agree that this looks like EC-gaming. Absent evidence that the edits themselves were problematic, I would either TBAN from ARBPIA or pull the EC flag until the user has made 500 edits that aren't rapidfire possibly LLM-assisted gnomish edits. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:02, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I agree on the gaming piece and would suggest mainspace edits+time for restoration of EC. I will throw out 3 months + 500 (substantive) main space edits. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:16, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I agree with Barkeep but I'd up it to 4 months. I don't believe that a TBAN is necessary at this point. voorts (talk/contributions) 04:45, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    • @Aquillion: I agree that the draft should be G5'd, but will wait for consensus to develop here. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      I don't think the wording of WP:ECR allows for deletion of a page that was created by an EC user. (ECR also seems to forget that anything other than articles and talkpages exists, but I think the most reasonable reading of provision A still allows for G5ing drafts at admins' discretion if the criteria are met.) That said, a consensus at AE can delete a page as a "reasonable measure that necessary and proportionate for the smooth running of the project". Deleting under that provision is not something to be done lightly, but I think for a case where a page's existence violates the spirit of an ArbCom restriction but not the letter, it'd be a fair time to do it. And/or this could make for a good ARCA question, probably after PIA5 wraps. -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 03:48, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I would just pull EC and require the editor to apply via AE appeal for its restoration. They should be very clearly aware that receiving such restoration will require both substantial time and making real, substantive edits outside the area, as well as an understanding of what is expected of editors working in a CTOP area. Seraphimblade 01:22, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I see a clear consensus here to remove the EC flag. For clarity, when I proposed a TBAN above it was because removing this flag is an ARBPIA TBAN as long as the ECR remedy remains in place; it's simply a question of whether the editor get the other privileges of EC or not. I don't see a consensus on what to do with the draft, but given that other editors have now made substantive contributions to it, I don't believe it's a good use of AE time to discuss the hypothetical further. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    AstroGuy0

    AstroGuy0 has been issued a warning for source misrepresentation by Voorts. No other reviewers have expressed any wish for further action. Seraphimblade 06:29, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning AstroGuy0

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Hemiauchenia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:41, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    AstroGuy0 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Contentious topics/Race and intelligence

    (Even though this isn't the usual R&I fare, I consider the intersection of "Race/ethnicity and sex offending", to come under "the intersection of race/ethnicity and human abilities and behaviour")

    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 03:19, 4 January 2025 Asserts that "A majority of the perpetrators were Pakistani men" despite the cited source (freely accessible at ) does not mention the word "Pakistani" or any variant once.
    2. 01:40, 4 January 2025 Describes the sex offender ring as "Pakistani" in the opening sentence when the cited source in the body says that they were only "mainly Pakistani"
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Made aware of contentious topics criterion: 01:52, 4 January 2025
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Additional comments by editor filing complaint:

    This new user seems intent on POVPUSHING regarding "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" and making contentious claims that are not backed up by sources. Hemiauchenia (talk) 03:44, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Discussion concerning AstroGuy0

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by AstroGuy0

    Statement by Iskandar323

    This rather dated "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" malarkey from the UK has recently been pushed on social media by a certain US tech billionaire and is now recirculating in right-wing social media and the blogosphere, partly in connection with UK politics, so this trend could flare before it dims. Iskandar323 (talk) 03:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning AstroGuy0

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    The second diff was before AG0 received a CTOP alert. I've alerted AG0 to other CTOPs that they've edited in, and I am going to warn them for their conduct in diff #1 without prejudice to other admins determining that further action is warranted. voorts (talk/contributions) 04:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    I also looked at the source, and it indeed does not in any way support the claim made; it does not mention "Pakistani" even once. This is a fairly new editor, but I think we need to make it very clear to them that misrepresentation of sources is not something we will tolerate. Seraphimblade 04:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    Given that AstroGuy0 has already been issued a warning, I don't think anything further is necessary, and will close as such unless any uninvolved admin shortly objects. Seraphimblade 18:23, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

    Lemabeta

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Lemabeta

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    EF5 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:18, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Lemabeta (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe#Final decision
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 5 Jan 2025 - Made a draft on a European ethnic group, which they are currently barred from doing.
    2. 4 Jan 2025 - Started a page on a Georgian ethnologist.


    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I likely filed this improperly, but to sum it up they continue to make pages in a scope they were banned from. EF 20:25, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    On the bullet point, I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. EF 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    (Not sure if I’m allowed to reply here) I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. EF 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    Response to Bishonen. Moved from results section. voorts (talk/contributions) 21:58, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    (RES to Bishonen) That's fair. When starting the AE, it only gave me nine options, none of which seemed to fit right. The third bullet ("Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on DIFF by _____") didn't seem to fit, as the sanction wasn't for verbal conduct. EF 22:05, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Here

    Discussion concerning Lemabeta

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Lemabeta

    Yeah, my bad. Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" I recognize my mistake. --Lemabeta (talk) 20:30, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    Ethnographic groups and cultural heritage are related but distinct concepts. An ethnographic group refers to a community of people defined by shared ancestry, language, traditions, and cultural identity. In contrast, cultural heritage refers to the *practices, artifacts, knowledge, and traditions preserved or inherited from the past. But cultural heritage is indeed a component of ethnographic groups.
    So i don't believe ethnographic group should be considered as either history of the Caucasus or cultural heritage. Lemabeta (talk) 20:56, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    In my opinion, cultural heritage (both tangible and intangible) emerges from ethnographic groups but does not define the group itself. Lemabeta (talk) 20:57, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    I think ethnographic groups fall under the category of Ethnography, or even socio-cultural antropology but for sure not cultural heritage. Lemabeta (talk) 21:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    I understand, i already apologized on my talk page for this accident. I will not repeat this mistake again. Lemabeta (talk) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Lemabeta

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I don't see Lemabeta mentioned in the case itself, but they're currently under a topic ban imposed by a consensus of AE admins from "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed". theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 20:26, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      To be fair, when you click above to add a new enforcement request, the template states:
      ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
      <!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> voorts (talk/contributions) 20:32, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" @Lemabeta: what did you think "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage" meant? I think it's pretty obvious that that an article on an ethnic group from the Caucasus and about an ethnologist who writes about that region is covered by your topic ban. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:37, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      Note that I've deleted Draft:Rachvelians as a clear G5 violation. I think Mate Albutashvili is a bit more of a questionable G5. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      Your definition of "ethnographic group" includes the phrases "shared ancestry" (i.e., history), and "shared ... traditions" and "shared ... cultural identity" (i.e., cultural heritage). Your attempt to exclude "ethnographic group" from either of the two categories in your topic ban is entirely unpersuasive, particularly since your topic ban is to be "broadly construed". voorts (talk/contributions) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Tamzin: this doesn't seem like a mistake to me, but I'm okay with a logged warning here. voorts (talk/contributions) 21:29, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Bishonen: This is about violating the TBAN. Per my response to leek, I think the issue is with the AE request template, which is a bit unclear. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Bishonen: I don't think a block is needed here, but the next violation, definitely. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:06, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @EF5: They were "reviously given ... contentious topic restriction", the topic ban at issue. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • @Lemabeta: Not every single thing you could write about an ethnic group would fall under cultural history, but that's not really relevant on the Rachvelians page, where the History section was entirely about their cultural history, even containing the words highlighting their ethnographic and cultural identity. There's a reason we use the words "broadly construed" on most TBANs, and a reason we encourage people to act like they're TBANned from a broader area than they are. (Consider: Would you feel safe driving under a bridge where clearance is exactly the same height as your vehicle? Or would you need a few inches' gap to feel safe doing it?)This does seem like a good-faith misunderstanding, so if you will commit to not making it again in the future, I think this can be closed with a clarification/warning. But that's an important "if". If you want to argue semantics, then the message that sends to admins is that you don't intend to comply with the TBAN, in which case the next step would be a siteblock. -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 21:10, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • EF5, I don't understand your "Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above" statement, can you please explain what it refers to? This T-ban? Lemabeta's block log is blank.
    That said, I'm unimpressed by Lemabeta's lawyerly distinctions above, and also by their apology for "accidental violations". I'll AGF that they were accidental, but OTOH, they surely ought to have taken enough care to realize they were violations; compare Voorts' examples. I suggest a block, not sure of what length. A couple of weeks? Bishonen | tålk 21:36, 5 January 2025 (UTC).
    EF5, OK, I see. Blocks and bans are very different, and the block log only logs blocks. Bishonen | tålk 22:02, 5 January 2025 (UTC).