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Revision as of 21:29, 24 April 2013 editPetrarchan47 (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users14,771 editsm →Gulf production percentage correction ← Previous edit		Latest revision as of 03:37, 3 December 2024 edit undoBuster7 (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers67,018 edits →Toby the outside cat
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			{{semi-retired}}
	{{humour}}{{User:Meaghan/Sunshine icon}}
	]]]
	== Notes for NDAA 2012 updates ==

			== disruptive whitewashing on ] ==


			If you continue removing sourced criticism despite repeated reverts from other editors, I will ask an uninvolved admin to block you at ]. ] (]) 02:58, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

			: Some of your changes weren't as bad as I thought – I saw massive swathes of content vanishing from the article, as when you previously removed all mention of the various scams. Some of your edits were actually removing unsourced content, which I shouldn't have reverted. So, for that, I apologize for being too hasty (and clearly not reading the diffs well enough). Still, you need to stop edit warring to remove sourced content from that article. Hold an ], raise the issue at ], or do something else to establish consensus. Showing up every few weeks to blank sections is disruptive. ] (]) 03:23, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
			:: Whitewashing is a pretty serious charge. The difference between my version and yours is two paragraphs - in your version you re-added the following but changed nothing else:
			:::”One example was the Who's Who Among American High School Students which was criticized for questionable nomination practices as well as whether the listing's entries are fact-checked and accurate. According to the admissions vice president of Hamline University, "It's honestly something that an admissions officer typically wouldn't consider or wouldn't play into an admissions decision," adding that "Who's Who... is just trying to sell books".
			:::Who's Who publications are not all of questionable value, but publishers that select truly notable people and provide trustworthy information on them are hard to identify. A & C Black's Who's Who is the canonical example of a legitimate Who's Who reference work, being the first to use the name and establish the approach in print, publishing annually since 1849. However, the longevity of a publication is not in itself a guarantee. In 1999 Tucker Carlson said in Forbes magazine that Marquis Who's Who, founded in 1898 but no longer an independent company, had adopted practices of address harvesting as a revenue stream, undermining its claim to legitimacy as a reference work listing people of merit.”

			::The example of a high school scam comes from low quality sources: and I left it out of my version for that reason, and because this is a short, list-style article, thought mentioning every single instance there was a printed complaint about some version of a “who’s who” wasn’t necessary. I don’t think you can call this whitewashing when I’ve already addressed the scams in the Lede and body in a way you yourself found (nearly) sufficient.

			::The second paragraph you re-added was from ], known as a conspiracy theorist and to my knowledge, not allowed on WP as a source. My removal of Carlson is not whitewashing to my knowledge, but perhaps I’ll check with the RS notice board to make sure.
			::Your paragraphs also make me wonder about the author, as they seem less reliant upon RS and sound very editorialized. The quotes selected are not neutral, considering how Carlson’s statement in my initial comment above wasn’t included whilst it would give the reader much better context. (“ “There are cases-- '''relatively few''' in our judgment--of individuals with decidedly modest vocational achievement being included in the Who's Who volumes.”)

			::“Whitewashing” should be reserved for describing the removal of negative content. What I’ve done is to try and present the facts in a balanced way. was what I was trying to clean up - and my is nearly identical to the present one, so how am I the problem? <b style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8">]]]</b> 14:38, 12 April 2022 (UTC)


			== Precious anniversary ==

			{{User QAIbox/auto\|years=Two}} --] (]) 07:03, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
			:Dear {{u\|Gerda Arendt\|Gerda}}, such a jewel you are. Thank you <b style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8">]]]</b> 14:41, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
			::Minor correction, though ~ <b style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8">]]]</b> 15:01, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

			== Barnstar Awarded! ==
	From the HuffPo article:

	Forrest had ruled on behalf of a group of journalists and activists who said they feared the government could grab them under section 1021 of the National Defense Authorization Act of 2012. That section affirms the administration's right to detain any "person who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces," including U.S. citizens.

	Forrest found that the definitions of "substantially supported" and "associated forces" were so vague that a reporter or activist could not be sure they would not be covered under the provision if they worked with a group deemed to be associated with terrorists, or perhaps circulated the message of an associated individual by printing an interview.

	The judged ruled that such a circumstance violated the First Amendment right to free speech, as well as the Fifth Amendment right to due process that holds that a person must be able to understand what actions would break the law.

	Forrest also argued that in passing the law, Congress had dramatically expanded the categories of people that can be detained, although the legislation itself and the administration asserted that the provision was doing nothing more than reasserting the White House's authority originally granted under the 2001 Authorization to Use Military Force that lawmakers passed after the 9/11 attacks. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 23:07, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

	From :
	"Plaintiffs said the U.S. court filing was the government's latest attempt to undo the judge's rulings.

	"The Obama administration is doubling down in their effort to chill civil liberties, reporter activities and activists in the United States by hyper aggressively trying to overturn an opinion by a federal judge," Carl Mayer, an attorney for the plaintiffs, said on Friday." '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 01:50, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
	"

	: ] I updated the NDAA 2012 article with the above mentioned sources. Due to the content expansion in the last days at the NDAA 2012 article I created ] and updated afterwards the NDAA 2012 article. Question: Can you update the ] and the NDAA 2012 article after Judge Forrest issued her 2012-09-19 ruling mentioned in ?--P3Y229 14:00, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

	===Sept 17 update===
	NDAA lawyer speculates: "they've been detaining people all along under the NDAA, in which case they're in contempt"

	"At around 9 a.m. Monday, September 17, the White House filed an emergency stay in federal appeals court in an effort to have the Second Circuit strip away Judge Forrest’s ruling from the week earlier...According to Hedges, the government called Judge Forrest’s most recent ruling an “extraordinary injunction of worldwide scope,” and Executive Branch attorneys worked into the weekend to find a way to file their stay....Attorney Carl Mayer, a counsel for Hedges and his co-plaintiffs, confirmed to RT early Monday that the stay was in fact filed with the Second Circuit....“This may be the most significant constitutional standoff since the Pentagon Papers case,” Carl Mayer says in a separate statement posted on Mr. Hedge’s blog.

	Monday morning, Hedges once more responded to the White House’s relentless attempts to reauthorize powers granted under the NDAA, asking, “If the administration is this anxious to restore this section of the NDAA, is it because the Obama government has already used it? Or does it have plans to use the section in the immediate future?”

	“The decision to vigorously fight Forrest’s ruling is a further example of the Obama White House’s steady and relentless assault against civil liberties, an assault that is more severe than that carried out by George W. Bush,” writes Hedges.

	“Obama has refused to restore habeas corpus. He supports the FISA Amendment Act, which retroactively makes legal what under our Constitution has traditionally been illegal — warrantless wire tapping, eavesdropping and monitoring directed against US citizens. He has used the Espionage Act six times against whistle-blowers who have exposed government crimes, including war crimes, to the public. He interprets the 2001 Authorization to Use Military Force Act as giving him the authority to assassinate US citizens, as he did the cleric Anwar al-Awlaki. And now he wants the right to use the armed forces to throw U.S. citizens into military prisons, where they will have no right to a trial and no defined length of detention.”



	'''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 20:42, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

	: Within the next 16 hours I won't be apple to include your updates in the Hedges v. Obama article. If it's urgent please do it yourself.--P3Y229 21:01, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
	:: It's not at all urgent, but I wanted to alert you and to get the references listed. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 21:11, 17 September 2012 (UTC)


	"A single federal appeals court judge put a temporary hold Monday night on a district court judge's ruling blocking enforcement of indefinite detention provisions in a defense bill passed by Congress and signed into law last year by President Barack Obama.

	U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit Judge Raymond Lohier issued a one-page order staying the district court judge's injunction until a three-judge appeals court panel can take up the issue on September 28." '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 04:03, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

	: It's done: I updated the NDAA 2012 article and ] article. In addition to your sources I added some other ones. Can you please proofread Hedges v. Obama beginning with "Judge Forrest denied on September 14, 2012 the government's request for an immediate stay of her injunction" til the end of the article and correct mistakes you notice?--P3Y229 20:11, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

	:: Absolutely - least I can do, though unfortunately, I may not be able to get to it until next week. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 21:22, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

	::: Thanks in advance.

	Interview with Plaintiff's Attorney who says all media got it wrong regarding the Sept 28 hearing, which is not to go over the merits of the case, but only the stay: '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 18:41, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

	: I included the video as a source. ] --P3Y229 21:26, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

	=== Updates on NDAA case 9.28.12 ===

	Your ] have been partially included at the Hedges v. Obama page. I ecluded the "" and "" because I had included them already earlier into the article. --P3Y229 22:41, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

	=== Latest on Hedges case ===

	Thanks for providing me with ]. I added them to the Hedges v. Obama article. --P3Y229 21:14, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

	:Your work is most appreciated. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 20:33, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

	== Service Award ==

	A (quasi-military) award for you. Post on your user page as you wish! And continue to contribute!!

	--] (]) 04:53, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
	{{Apprentice Editor}}

	== BP stock history ==

	Hi Petrarchan, following your request for my input on a "stock history" for BP, I've prepared a new subsection for the article's Corporate affairs section that provides details of the major events in the company's stock history. I've ] that editors review the draft, which is in my user pages here: ]. I hope this provides the information you and Beagel were thinking of. Thanks. ] (]) 15:38, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
	:Excellent as usual, Arturo. Many thanks. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 21:24, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

	== BP alternative energy draft ==

	Hi Petrarchan47, I'm hoping I can get your help reviewing a ] I posted on the BP talk page. I've prepared a revision for the existing ] section which is outdated. The full request on the article's talk page explains the changes I've made and the draft is in my user space here: ]

	Also, you'll see have another short request below the one for the BP Alternative Energy draft. I'm looking for an editor to remove the now outdated information about the planned ethanol plant in Florida from the ] section. I'd appreciate help with either request. I'll be watching the talk page and will respond there to any comments. Thanks. ] (]) 19:00, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

	:Thanks for your reply on my Talk page, I hope you are better soon. By the way, there are a couple of other sections I have been working on new drafts for and will be asking for reviews of soon. If you are feeling up to it, your opinion would be valued. In the meantime, I wish you well. ] (]) 15:58, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

	{{bots\|deny=DPL bot}}

	== Thanks for your collaboration ==

	Pulling together the heap of info into a well-formed article is tedious, a labor of love. Thanks for your recent help on ] ] (]) 02:59, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

	Hi Petrarchan47, many thanks to you, you've written the text, searched and added the references, which is the most important part. Thanks for letting me know about the new discussion. --] (]) 20:41, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
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	== To clarify my intent... ==

	I hope that you did not misunderstand my intent when I asked for assist with splitting a section of the Gulf spill article. I certainly had no backroom discussions in mind, but merely thought that we could decide who would do what in a collaboration on working with that section. Best, gandy ] (]) 16:19, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

	: No need for clarification, but thanks :) '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 02:56, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

	== A barnstar for you! ==

	{\| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
	\|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" \| ]
	\|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" \| '''The Tireless Contributor Barnstar'''
	\|-
	\|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" \| Thanks for all your hard work on the ] article. You may not get much appreciation here, but it means a lot to people that care about a healthy environment for themselves and even more so for the children. ] (]) 16:35, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
	\|}

	Hi there. I don't know if you still watch the BP spill article or the talk page. I just thought I'd let you know that I'm going to take a little vacation from the article as well. It is just too frustrating to have an editor return and say we've ruined the article and then proceed to make changes without even a pretense of first attempting to find consensus. I don't like being angry. I would have never stayed with a paying job that involved working with someone like that (though one feels more that they are working ''under'' her/him) and I certainly am not going to do it for free. I am retired and I'd like to enjoy my Misplaced Pages job like I used to enjoy my "real" jobs. For now, Gandy ] (]) 07:33, 20 February 2013 (UTC)


	== Lester Grinspoon Again ==


	Hi , I didn't know if this was the best way to contact you is there an email address for wikipedia users ?

	I noticed you were interested in Lester Grinspoon so I wanted to send this to you :

	Pictures of Lester Grinspoon -->

	Grinspoon on Erowid : http://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/grinspoon_lester/grinspoon_lester.shtml

	Erowid seems to be well connected , maybe you can find out more there about getting permission to insert an image of Grinspoon .

	] (]) 21:07, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

	== Caretaker of the Hedges v. Obama respectively Withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan site ==

	Hi Petrarchan47

	Due to serious health problems I won't be able to take care of the ] and ] site in the future. Could you please take care of both sites in my absence which will last at least four months? Thanks in advance. --] (] • ]) 20:27, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

	== ] ==

	Hi Petra, I don't know whether you still watch this page, but I'm writing to ask whether you would ever consider returning to the BP page to give editors the benefit of your expertise there. My understanding is that you came to feel undermined in your efforts to uphold neutrality. If you're truly burned out, then please ignore this note, because real life matters more than Misplaced Pages. But if you could ever consider returning, this would be good time to explain your concerns about the editing of that article and BP's input. There is discussion on the BP talk page, and on the talk page of the COI guideline (see ) to try to make sure company drafts are no longer ported over word-for-word into articles in this way.

	The difficulty in discussing what has happened, and what should happen now, is that the editors most familiar with the situation are really fed up, or have left. So if you can see your way to helping, it would be much appreciated, bearing in mind that you have to put yourself first. Best wishes, ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 18:40, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

	:I am absolutely willing to help. I do not see how I can add much to your guidelines discussion. But for the story of the past 9 months at the BP page, I do have a lot to offer and would like to share all of it. The question is what would be the best way to extract this information? I'm unfortunately too close to it and too emotional about it to write up a nice, clean summary for you. (Moved to your talk page... ) '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 23:04, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

	::Hi again, just to let you know that I've replied ]. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 00:07, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

	::In case you haven't seen it, ] News has picked this up. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 01:49, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

	:::That's what's up! '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 01:54, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

	== Special Barnstar ==


	{\| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"		{\| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
	\|rowspan="2" ~~valign~~="~~middle~~" \| {{#ifeq:{{{2}}}\|alt\|]\|]}}		\|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:top;" \| {{#ifeq:{{{2}}}\|alt\|]\|]}}

	\|rowspan="2" \|		\|rowspan="2" \|
	\|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: ~~middle~~; height: 1.1em;" \| '''The ~~Special~~ Barnstar'''		\|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: bottom; height: 1.1em;" \| '''The Environmental Barnstar'''
	\|-		\|-
	\|style="vertical-align: ~~middle~~; border-top: 1px solid gray;" \| ~~Thank~~ ~~you~~ for ~~all~~ your work on ~~Misplaced Pages~~. ~~Your~~ ~~story~~ ~~should~~ be an ~~inspiration~~ to us ~~all~~. ]~~<sub>(<font~~ ~~color="cc6600">~~]~~</font>~~)~~</sub>~~ 01:07, 21 ~~March~~ ~~2013~~ (UTC)		\|style="vertical-align: top; border-top: 1px solid gray;" \| Awarded in recognition for your legacy work on the ] and other environmental articles. Also thanks for joining ] last month, with more editors like you, the WP will thrive. Hoping to see you a bit more, cheers! ] (]) 04:17, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
	\|}		\|}
	:swoons ~~'''~~<~~span~~ style="text-shadow:~~7px~~ ~~7px 8px~~ #~~B8B8B8;~~">]]]</~~span~~>~~'''~~ 01:16, 21 ~~March~~ ~~2013~~ (UTC)		{{u\|JusDaFax}} What an honor, thank you, mon ami. Let me know if I can help in any way on environmental articles. I’m quite out of the loop, so please feel free to offer some guidance. It would be wonderful to work with you again. <b style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8">]]]</b> 01:13, 28 June 2022 (UTC) {{u\|Jusdafax}}
			:Welcome back! ―] ] 13:08, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
			::Hi Buster! Thank you so much. How are things? Hot and steamy here, but the morning glories are finally blooming. Any word from our dear friends? <b style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8">]]]</b> 23:04, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

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	]<sub>(<font color="cc6600">]</font>)</sub> 02:22, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

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	==Talkback==
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	{{talkback\|Ocaasi\|User_talk:Ocaasi#Declaring_COI\|ts=19:56, 21 March 2013 (UTC)}}
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	Let's work on clarifying procedure for these situations, so it's more transparent and better reviewed. ]<sup> ]\|]</sup> 19:56, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

			== Discussion re-opened ==
	== Spin-checking BP's Tar Sands Entry ==
	:

			Just as heads up that I have recently re-opened a discussion ]. The question was about whether the article about ]’s island should include content about a science conference ] happened to be part of. You seemed to support the inclusion, mainly because two other editors supported the inclusion. Since then, those two editors have been indefinitely banned from the Misplaced Pages, and an investigation in to their bans shows that the two editors had problems with editing about conspiracy theories or ] related issues. That in mind, I have removed the problematic content from the ] article, since there is no longer consensus for its inclusion. ] (]) 22:40, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
	{{Cquote\|In Canada, BP is involved in the use of in-situ drilling technologies such as Steam Assisted Gravity Drainage to extract oil from the country's oil sand reserves. Members of the Cree Nation have criticized BP's involvement in the Canadian oil sands for the impacts that oil extraction is said to have on the local environment. However, proponents of in situ drilling state that using recycled groundwater makes it the more environmentally friendly option compared to oil sands mining.}}

	"'''In Canada, BP is involved in the use of in-situ drilling technologies such as Steam Assisted Gravity Drainage to extract oil from Canada's oil sand reserves'''"

			==Happy Holidays==
	:note: ''tar sands'' is a much more recognized, albeit controversial, term; it would help educate the reader to add "oil sands, tar sands or, more technically, bituminous sands" (from ]).
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			{font\|text='''<nowiki>~~~</nowiki> Merry Christmas! <nowiki>~~~</nowiki>'''\|font=Century Gothic\|size=30px\|color=#bf00bf}}<br>
			{{font\|text=''Joyeux Noël! ~ Buon Natale! ~ Vrolijk Kerstfeest! ~ Frohe Weihnachten!<br>¡Feliz Navidad! ~ Feliz Natal! ~ Καλά Χριστούγεννα! ~ Hyvää Joulua!<br>God Jul! ~ Glædelig Jul! ~ Linksmų Kalėdų! ~ Priecīgus Ziemassvētkus!<br>Häid Jõule! ~ Wesołych Świąt! ~ Boldog Karácsonyt! ~ Veselé Vánoce!<br>Veselé Vianoce! ~ Crăciun Fericit! ~ Sretan Božić! ~ С Рождеством!''\|font=Times New Roman\|size=19px}}</div>
			{{font\|text=''Hello, Petra! Hope all is well with you and yours. Wishing you a ] and a ]!''\|font=Times New Roman\|size=19px}} ―] ] 20:17, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
			==Fan Mail==
			{{Wide image\|{{LOCALMONTHABBREV}}{{LOCALDAY}} Woman of the Day.png\|700px\|As you say at Gandy's page ...its good to know you are doing well}} ―] ] 05:00, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

			== Precious anniversary ==
	Refs
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			{{unblock reviewed \|1=Requesting an IP block exemption as established user; IP block due to IP "anonymizing proxy" range <b style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8">]]]</b> 21:08, 9 August 2023 (UTC) \|decline = The procedure for getting IPBE now is to follow the directions at ] to request it by email. Regular admins just can't hand it out like we used to. — ] (]) 06:46, 10 August 2023 (UTC)}}

			== ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message ==
	1) A on the BP website.''
	:, ''BP quotes a low carbon footprint figure of just 5-15% of extra emissions per barrel for tar sands oil when compared to conventional crude. However, a more reliable figure is the peer-reviewed Stanford University figure of 23% extra greenhouse gas emissions per barrel. This is the official number that has been accepted as correct by the EU. BP tries to defend its actions by saying that rather than open-cast mining it will be using Steam Assisted Gravity Drainage (SAG-D) to extract oil from the Canadian tar sands. In its 2011 Sustainability Review they state that SAG-D has a smaller physical footprint than open-cast mining, and point out that it does not create tailings ponds. However, it fails to mention that this extraction method still causes great damage to the local environment, by fragmenting habitats along seismic lines, drawing heavily on local aquifers and polluting the groundwater. It also carries the significant risk of steam blowouts, which could cause death or serious injury to staff, community members and wildlife. Because SAG-D requires the burning of large amounts of natural gas, it has a significantly higher carbon footprint than conventional oil'' (text comes from )

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	2)
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	3) - ''In situ drilling: Approximately 80% of oil sands recoverable resource is located more than 70 metres, or 200 feet, below the surface and to extract these resources, in situ techniques such as steam assisted gravity drainage (SAGD) are used. BP plans to use in situ technology to recover the resource. A key method of in situ recovery is steam-assisted gravity drainage (SAGD).''

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	:note: the allusion to other possible methods being used by stating "key" and "such as", while not a major problem, causes cognitive dissonance for me. Is there another method being used, and what is it?

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	"'''Members of the Cree Nation have criticized BP's involvement in the Canadian oil sands for the impacts that oil extraction is said to have on the local environment'''."
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			==A Gathering is Happening==
			*Hi Petra. It's Buster7 :) I'm forwarding this invitation I got from an editor that reminds me of you and Gandy.
			:: (((I'm looking to interview people ]. Feel free to pass if you're not interested. ] ] 12:40, 4 December 2023 (UTC))))
			*It's worth a visit! I hope to see you and Gandy there!!! ] (]) 14:05, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
			===Holiday Greetings===
			]{{quotation\|<center>'''Peace is a state of balance and understanding in yourself and between others, where respect is gained by the acceptance of differences, tolerance persists, conflicts are resolved through dialog, people's rights are respected and their voices are heard, and everyone is at their highest point of serenity without social tension.''' Happy Holidays to you and yours. I hope you still visit these pages every once in a while. A recent ] of editors has sent me into a time-travel loop to revisit the distant past where I stumbled upon our playful sharing's of long ago. What a Joy. What fun it was. For me, your page was an oasis. Life is GOOD. Hope the same for you. ―] ] </center>}}
			:Hi there dear {{u\|Buster7}}, I've just been released from another (this time 6 month) range-block. I do indeed recall the good ole days, and feel the same as you. In fact, I found myself checking up on the BP oil spill and there is quite a lot of updating to be done, much research and peer reviewed papers have come out discussing the longer-term damage and effects from the oil and Corexit. It seems like something we could get together as a small group once again to work on (if I can remain free of these blocks). I need to touch base with Gandydancer too, if I can find her new location.
			:Any updates from your end? How are things? <b style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8">]]]</b> 00:10, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
			::What a wonderment to hear your song again. The idea of "your song" comes from ] a recent Editor of the Week and someone you should know. I'm still giving out the weekly awards (534 so far) and clerking at Editor Retention. Reminds me of the years my wife and I had a resale store in the neighborhood. Most days were easy going and then....all of a sudden....customers! I'll have to search out where I have info on Gandy's new identity. I know it's on my watchlist but where? Life is good. We are headed to NYC next month to stay at my nieces apt while she and her family go on Holiday. I like saying "Go On Holiday". It sounds so British!!! We were in London, on Holiday, a few months back visiting an old friend of my wife from 55 years ago. They worked in Tehran and corresponded every now and then. Still working at a local library a few days a week...security. How hard can that be? Watching too much TV but finding some gems. ] is worth a look. And I draw while watching, so ]. Life is Good. Lets Find Gandy!!! and have a reunion. ]<small>]</small> (UTC) 05:47, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
			:::{{u\|Buster7}} I am range blocked again until 2027. Let me try to remedy this issue... do you have any insight? Or perhaps know someone who might? Luckily I'm able to edit my TP!
			:::My last big trip was to London to see my brother. Did you have fun there? As for finding Gandy, I think I can hunt her down. I'll race you!
			:::Editor retention has got to be challenging when they're blocking people like this. Are you aware of the issue? I wonder if editors have been informed about this new process?
			:::Delightful to touch base again, Buster! Enjoy the Spring, and New York, and keep that library safe! <b style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8">]]]</b> 02:03, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
			::::Don't know much about range blocking. From what I read @ ] it mostly has to do with IP addresses' . Range blocks are explained over at ] with the strange sentence' '''You should avoid performing range blocks unless you understand what you are doing, or you may end up blocking tens of thousands or even millions of people who are not the problem!'''. Sounds like an admin could create a huge kerfuffle. Is that what happened to you? Love going to London. Love Minding the Gap! Love an English breakfast. Love going to Harrods and pretending I'm actually going to buy the $10000 sofa. Love Love Love Fish n Chips (No vinegar!!). Love everything around the Thames. Love St James Place near Buckingham Palace. Love seeing Arsenal or Chelsea play. Love having a chat and a ] with a brit from up North and barely understanding a word he says but loving every minute. Love spending hours people watching at Trafalgar Square. Love hearing someone talking Flemish (my native tongue) in line to get into the British Museum. And Love you and gandy!!! ]<small>]</small> (UTC) 05:22, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
			:::::Flemish?!! I visited Bruges drcades ago and havent heard much if any mention of that language since then.
			:::::I got a response back from the admins, my appeal to remove the block was declined and now I am told to wait a few days to mull over the response, which was:
			::::::Looking at our logs, it appears the IP address that you are editing from belongs to a proxy service. Open or anonymizing proxies, including VPNs, iCloud Private Relay, Tor, and web hosting services, are blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. While this may affect legitimate users, they are not the intended targets. No restrictions are placed on reading Misplaced Pages through an open or anonymous proxy.

			::::::Although Misplaced Pages encourages anyone in the world to contribute, open proxies are often used abusively. MediaWiki, the wiki software that powers Misplaced Pages, depends on IP addresses for administrator intervention against abuse, especially by anonymous users. Open proxies allow malicious users to rapidly change IP addresses, causing continuous disruption that cannot be stopped by administrators. Several such attacks have occurred on Wikimedia projects, causing disruption and occupying administrators who would otherwise deal with other concerns.
	4)
	:notes
	:Is the Cree Nation alone? The reader is led to believe so. From the same Guardian article: ''The tar sands are seen by many (referring to other than Cree Nation) as a particularly dangerous project providing enough carbon to be released in total to tip the world into unstoppable climate change.'' (See my list below for more.)

			::::::Unfortunately, you will not be able to edit while using this open proxy.
	:"is said to" = weasle words. There is no debate about it that I have come across.
			::::I am no techie, and have no idea what all this means. <b style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8">]]]</b> 22:19, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
			{{u\|Buster7}} Ignore all of the above. I switched to my desktop and the problem seems to be solved. Now to find Gandy... <b style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8">]]]</b> 22:24, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

			== Hi ==
	'''"However, proponents of in situ drilling state that using recycled groundwater makes it the more environmentally friendly option compared to oil sands mining."'''

			I hope ur still there
	5)
	:notes:

			Just wanted to ask to a truly unbiased admin, as I've seen through/extensively read up several discussions on wiki before I started to finally post stuff on talk pages quite recently -
	:It appears the proponents referred to in the given ref are "U.S. and Canadian oil companies".
			Why are all my edits being undone by a single admin

			Is it wikistalking
	:This use of "however" causes cognitive dissonance for me because this is an encyclopedia, not an argument. I feel like I'm being swayed, rather than given information.

			or more importantly
	:According to Greenpeace: ''The evidence from government and industry’s own reports shows that in situ extraction doesn’t solve the basic problems of the tar sands...Melting the bitumen out of the ground rather than digging it out actually creates more greenhouse gas emissions and fragments more wildlife habitat than open-pit mining, while creating toxic waste we don’t know how to treat or safely store.''

			Is there a possibility of a 'heavy handed effort' I've seen elsewhere on this wiki at work / affecting stuff here?
	:From the ref: ''...steam-assisted gravity drainage or SAGD, produces two times as much water as it does oil. Companies such as Conoco and Suncor tout water recycling rates upward of 90 percent at in situ facilities, but environmentalists counter that industry use of saline groundwater remains insufficiently monitored.''

	:80% of Canada's oil sand is underground, so choosing "in situ" is out of necessity.

			(In the sense that my comment was something like this (at Talk: Arab wikipedia -> section : Neutrality lost?))

			👇 ] (]) 08:57, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
	'''Not mentioned''':
	*
	* "Nasa scientist James Hansen says if the oil sands were exploited as projected it would be "game over for the climate" "
	*

			:: "Those colors are pan-Arab. But the text they added in the main page clearly states that Arabic Misplaced Pages stands in solidarity with Palestine. A formal complaint? Much good that would do. I am a regular Misplaced Pages donor because I believe in Misplaced Pages's mission statement. It's sad to see those core principals erode."
	* "Oil giant BP today signalled it would press on with a controversial Canadian tar sands project despite facing a showdown with environmental campaigners and shareholders."
			:: "Basically the Arab version of the English "pseudoscience effort"
	*
			:: Pls do mention this too out there too"
			:: Two comments made by me and earlier,someone else (the other guy's, atleast was pretty much on-topic, on-discussion) were reverted as SOAPBOXing for grounds that are pretty much only criticising enwiki or wiki in general when there ''is'' certainly stuff to criticize even on enwiki
			:] (]) 08:59, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
			::Does semi retired mean that I should not look here for answers? Just curious
			::Ig even totally retired bois come back to answer a req. unless ofc if they're deceased or disconnected from the net right ] (]) 09:07, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
			:::Since I've anyways already asked so many questions I might as well complete it by asking one more last ye
			:::Is editing to talk pages only
			:::a blockable rationale, even in theory ,i.e., even if u hypothetically erased all the obvious double standards (obvious as in when u start by first seeing the the article of - say, ayurveda) ? ] (]) 09:16, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
			::::Was tempted to tell even more it out all openly at that particular TP but (besides that it would indeed be rolling highly off-topic and ranting to a point,) I knew, from what I have read here, that wiki is not as highly democratic as it seems to be and that there indeed is/may be a heavy hand (of sorts) on the site to be mindful of (regds. to what u say), in which case I can easily consider the comment i posted there as 'highly risky' ] (]) 09:25, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
			:And when I say talk pageS, I meant quite a few diverse and unrelated talk pages like the one on SB
			:I had sensed an air of heavy-handedness/"unwelcomed"-ness(/whatever the right word is) right there itself, but I chose not to assume until it came to a deletion + SOAPBOXING charge by the same fella at a mention of something like 'the 'pseudoscience' problem here'
			:To further understand all of this potentially 'rambled-tangled' text, u may wanna see my diffs/contribs. ] (]) 09:36, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
			::Plus a WP:BITE concern abt the same person I addressed to a totally different third party (before it became what I saw/see as a glaring obviousness abt this site and its 'admins'
			::Actually, R U an admin ? - sheesh didn't ask this basic thing all this while ] (]) 09:40, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
			::again, I repeat,
			::''To further understand all of this potentially 'rambled-tangled' text,'' '''u may wanna see the diffs/contribs.''' ] (]) 09:45, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

			== Reunion 2024 ==
	* "There will be continued pressure on BP for making the decision to get involved in the tar sands, given that it said it was going to be 'beyond petroleum'," she continued, referring to the company's much-criticised branding strategy."
	*

			I found the beloved Gandy, {{u\|Buster7}}. She's {{u\|Sectionworker}}! <b style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8">]]]</b> 22:41, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
	* "The board of U.K. oil giant BP successfully defeated an AGM resolution Thursday from activist shareholders who wanted a full investigation into the company’s plans to launch a major oil sands project in Alberta, Canada"
	*

			] <b style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8">]]]</b> 22:41, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
	* "Some scientists and environmentalists, however, claim that the SAGD method poisons underground aquifers....A peer review analysis of the report was then carried out by the National Resources Defense Council, which found a 30% increase in cancers in Fort Chipewyan. Leukemia and lymphomas had increased threefold and bile duct cancers seven fold."
			:Yes, but she hasn't made any contributions since May 15 of 2023. Fingers crossed she comes to visit and sees our interest. ]<small>]</small> (UTC) 16:48, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
	*
			::Fingers: Crossed <b style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8">]]]</b> 00:39, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
			:::Fingers crossed not working. Starting to cross toes!!! ]<small>]</small> (UTC) 03:27, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

			== You may wanna see this ⬇️ ==

			https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FuJT9mp0jw&list=PLoXVez7Y_XKVTBHJYyJjDbA6bUBo7JOWf ] (]) 23:53, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
	'''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 01:01, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

			:P.S. The previous IP was also me, so pls notify if u don't wanna hear more cos ur retired, I'll gladly oblige and things will atleast be clear
	=="Accidents" vs "incidents"==
			:(Hope my revelation doesn't get me in trouble 😅) ] (]) 00:02, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
	You are indeed correct that what's in that section are non-neutral events, some in which BP was found to be culpable. That's why I have a problem with "accidents." I think that tends to lessen the severity of what happened. The word "incident" is more neutral in the sense of being less exculpatorty. I'd urge you to rethink your position on this. ] (]) 19:54, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
			::It's a lost cause, my friend. But realize that at this point, everyone knows the word "encyclopedia" is much like the word "news". These terms once evoked trust, and were seen as a safe place for truth to reside, awaiting the curious. Now, they have people racing to 'do their own research':
			:::what are others saying?
			:::who is funding the studies?
			:::who is funding the platform?
			:::where are the conflicts of interest and how have these factors affected the truth?
			::Following the money turns out to be a worthwhile pasttime for the armchair researcher (as we are by default called to be). <b style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8">]]]</b> 00:53, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
			==Toby the outside cat==
			Toby lives outside. He is not homeless as he has many homes he visits throughout the neighborhood. But my 120 year-old building is his base. He once was an inside cat but his owners, now former tenants of mine, let him out one day, he tasted freedom, and now scorns entering any doorway. He just arrived (at 6AM) to check his dish which another tenant fills daily. Empty! I told him to go catch a city rat and eat it this time instead of dropping it off, decapitated, in my yard. He looked at me and walked away, insulted that I asked him to actually eat his prey. I didn't want to tell Toby that his former mate, Amy, was passing away upstairs. See, the former jerk tenant, that I had to evict for non-payment of rent, had four cats. Toby, his mate Amy, and two of their kittens that were adults. The jerk tenant completely abandoned the three inside cats leaving it to me to call the Anti-Cruelty Society to pick them up for adoption since they were good cats. They came but we only found two. Two weeks later, Amy jumped out of a hide-a-bed we were dismantling for discard and went to hide. For weeks she hid (not to well since we knew where she was) on the enclosed back porch, We LET HER BE, as instructed by the Beetles but she didn't eat food or drink we put out for her. On day she was gone! I left windows open and figured she jumped out one and went to join Toby in the Great Outdoors. Sadly that was not the case. A few days ago, my first floor tenant tells me he has been hearing mice in his bathroom ceiling. Knowing there is an access panel to the 6' foot tub and that I had opened it weeks ago to start a repair that was now on hold, I knew it was Amy. As I write this, Amy is in the throws of death. I can't get to her, poor thing. I dropped some wet food down to her and water but she is comatose...still breathing but barely. If I could I would end her pain but I can't reach her to help. Toby doesn't Know. I haven't told him. Maybe Tomorrow. ]<small>]</small> (UTC) 05:02, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
			:Our cat Starr (named after Ringo) doesn't know either. I don't think I will tell him!!! ]<small>]</small> (UTC)
			::Buster I'm sorry to hear this sad story. what ended up happening? (Crossing my toes too. We love you Gandy.) <b style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8">]]]</b> 01:29, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
			::::Sorry to report that precious Amy did not survive her ordeal. She passed away overnight in late August. Animal Cruelty passed my call on to City Services who never did respond in time to save her. There was not much we could do to help her or ease her suffering. If you can visualize this, she was halfway... under pipes and the floor all under the tub. We scooted food and water, but she never touched it...not for days. She was never socialized to humans and because of that she hid and stayed away. Her chosen hiding place led to her death. So sad, poor little thing. We wrapped her in some linen and buried her in the garden. ]<small>]</small> (UTC) 03:34, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

			== ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message ==
	OK, I think I understand your perspective now. I just found the discussion at http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:BP/Archive_8#New_structure_for_Environmental_record_and_Accidents.2Fsafety_record and now I understand why "incidents" might also minimize what happened. However, I think "accidents" is worse than "incidents." I'm starting a new discussion on the talk page and I hope you can participate. ] (]) 21:29, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

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			Hello! Voting in the ''']''' is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on {{#time:l, j F Y\|{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data\|2024\|end}}-1 day}}. All ''']''' are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

			The ] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the ]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose ], ], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The ] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
	I have received your mail. While I understand your problem and request, I'll refrain from interfering here, for a number of reasons. Nasically, I have too much on my plate already, and one of the main articles in the dispute has recently been significantly edited by an editor I'm already in a dispute with (for unrelated issues). I don't want to taint my possible actions by people shouting ]. I would urge you to look for help at prokect talk pages, noticeboards like ], article content ]s, and if there are severe conduct problems, ] or ].

			If you wish to participate in the 2024 election, please review ] and submit your choices on the ''']'''. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{tlx\|NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. <small>] (]) 00:27, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</small>
	I'm sorry that I can't be of more use, but I'm afraid that I'll not be helping you in this case. Good luck though. ] (]) 12:57, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

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	\|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" \|It is a pleasure to meet you. An editor like you is the very heartbeat of Misplaced Pages. Thanks for your strength of conviction and your continuing involvement.```]<small>]</small> 13:06, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
	\|}

			If you are the copyright holder for this media entirely yourself but have previously published it elsewhere (especially online), please either
	Please let me know if there is anything I can do to safeguard Wikepedia's reputation and safeguard our readers desire to have impartially edited articles. There is alot going on and a lot being said about a lot of different things. It's hard to keep up and to keep track. ```]<small>]</small> 14:11, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
			* make a note permitting reuse under the ] or another acceptable free license (see ]) '''at the site of the original publication'''; or
			* Send an email from an address associated with the original publication to '''permissions-en@wikimedia.org''', stating your ownership of the material and your intention to publish it under a free license. You can find a sample permission letter ]. If you take this step, add {{tl\|permission pending}} to the file description page to prevent premature deletion.

			If you did not create it entirely yourself, please ask the person who created the file to take one of the two steps listed above, or if the owner of the file has already given their permission to you via email, please forward that email to '''permissions-en@wikimedia.org'''.
	==Driving '''The Bus'''==
	If you have the time, Please take a look at ]. I collected some stuff that was an off-shoot of involvement with a paid political operative that was editing the Gingrich Campaign article.
	;''The Bus'' is symbolic of {{em\|all}}corporate and political articles.
	*Paid operatives/advocates should {{em\|never}} drive the Bus, and should never be allowed, by other editors, to have their hands on the steering wheel of the Bus.
	*Paid operatives/advocates are passengers on the Bus...just like the other editors. They have no special seating assignment, no reduced fare, no GPS control of where the Bus is headed, no special permission to be a spokesman for the Bus Company.
	*Paid operatives/advocates should {{em\|only}} ask the opinions of the Bus drivers (other editors). They should never pick out an editor with similar opinions and ask special favors of them.
	*Paid operatives/advocats should {{em\|never}} direct the drivers of the Bus where to go, how to get there ("there" may look different for different factions on the Bus), and what to say when they get there '''unless the direction/objective/language is agreed upon via the general ] of the passengers.
	*```]<small>]</small> 00:53, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

			If you believe the media meets the criteria at ], use a tag such as {{tl\|non-free fair use}} or one of the other tags listed at ], and add a ] justifying the file's use on the article or articles where it is included. See ] for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.
	== Request ==

	I noticed at ] you have the phrase " Seconds after updating it, Rangoon11 stepped in and reverted my work," while later conceding this was in error. With over 2000 edits, you are hardly a newbie, yet even editors who have been around for awhile are unaware that convention is to use strike-through on the original comment, so that later readers, such as myself, won't be initially misled. Will you consider it?--]] 14:20, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
	:Indeed. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 18:54, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

	==Un-retire?==
	I am a WP Wanderer. I am involved with the BP article because I saw you conversation w/ Slim Virgin regarding the Paid editor situation. I am also one of the original members of the ] project and its sub-project Editor of the Week. Your plight and the fact that it caused you to retire has been on my mind since. When an editor like you retires, WP and the community lose so much. Not just the work you do is missed but your attitude, your way of being, the congenial way you work with fellow editors. I'm not sure but I think you got involved with a 'ruff crowd' a bit too early in your WP career. The same thing happened to me. I was a rookie and I was doing battle with veterans at the Sara Palin page during the 2008 Election period. We were lucky. There was a group of editors that, while they obviously supported Palin, at least could be fair and relatively impartial. Looks like your experience at BP was different. It was just you and Gandydancer.

	I wonder if you might consider renewing you enthusiasm for Misplaced Pages editing. It doesnt have to be at articles like BP or Chevron. That would be nice and you are more than welcome. A restructuring is taking place that you might find very intertesting. But, it can be in any one of a thousand ways. Your voice needs to be heard. Others will try to drown it out with their chatter and their divisiveness but your voice needs to be heard. I hope I am not to presumptuous in this request. As I said, your forced retirement bothered me. I support whatever you decide. ```]<small>]</small> 20:02, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

	:Thank you, Buster7, for the heart you put into this project as well as the kind words of support for me. Briefly, I am willing to help with the BP page on one condition: that we can also give the ] page the same treatment. FYI, BP is this very week in court defending itself against possible charges of gross negligence. BP has in the past used this Wiki article in trial! (Link to this is at top of the article's talk page) Recently scrubbed from the article are two Al Jazeera refs which talk about human health effects from the spill. Beagle and Martin Hogbin (who has never worked on the article previously) removed the mention of people dying as well as perfectly good, supportive RS. This is just one example of what is happening at that article and its spin-off articles. When I try to remedy what has been scrubbed, the result is that more (pro-BP) editors come in and together will delete other stuff for dubious reasons. It's a very immature game and those seeking information about the largest environmental disaster in US history are the ones loosing out. I am no longer effective as an editor there as Beagle has declared war against me, as is evidenced by her edits, comments and arguments. I don't call other editors for help in arguing my (guideline-supported) points because I don't know any. But the team on the 'other side' has a seemingly endless supply of folks to argue and fight for the pro-BP, pro-Big Oil, and pro-Official Government versions.

	:After seeing the reaction of the Wiki community and the Jimbo talk page to the news that BP's article contained words straight from BP's PR dept, I can tell you that I no longer have faith in this project overall. And that breaks my heart to say to you. Until I witnessed the reaction from the Higher Ups, I was under the impression that Misplaced Pages, regardless of who founded it, did not belong to and was not swayed by any particular Ego. I thought it belonged to me, and to you and to millions of individuals who want unadulterated information, sans commercials, not normally found in corporate-funded mainstream media.

	:I thought that surely if there was someone, or a group of someones, in charge of making sure Wiki was running as intended, they would immediately act on behalf of NPOV, Truth, Science if that these things are being hurt by (in this case) corporate influence. I further thought that 'nobody' editors like me would be supported by this same group. But what I witnessed was ridiculous, over-the-top displays of adoration and support for all-things-BP. I saw broken promises to "analyze" the added content for spin, missing info, etc., as well as the editors who approved of and submitted content. In one case we have Silver Seren - the sole 'reviewer' and submitter of the last BP PR draft. Was his editing behaviour appropriate? I think an analysis remains in order. I would look at the fact that Silver never showed any interest in the article itself prior to this addition and has not been seen at the BP talk page since the initial frenzy.

	:Wiki rules allow for this type of activity, and the High Ups apparently see nothing wrong with this, but rather with those who call attention to it. The only follow-up to the promised analysis was to badmouth one of the whistle-blowers as "sufficiently biased" whose work doesn't deserve a second look. IMO, this reaction has the emotional maturity level of a dysfunctional 9 year-old. Unless and until Misplaced Pages is truly handed over to 'us', the little people, I'm afraid I just don't see how it can be free of the ingrained and deeply-rooted corruption I am witnessing. I mentioned in my SlimVirgin response that it felt as if Misplaced Pages didn't have my back when I was pointing out corporate spin. I was told in no uncertain terms, by the aforementioned talk page activity, that I was exactly right (unless I'm BP).

	:So yes, I'm willing to point out things on both the BP and BP oil spill pages in the same way a COI editor is encouraged to do: show inaccuracies, spin, and supply supportive refs, and missing facts. Hopefully I would have some fraction of the support and love from the community for my efforts that is shown to a BP employee, but I sure don't expect it. As for returning to help Misplaced Pages as an enthusiastic editor, no. Not until things have changed. Misplaced Pages is most absolutely and massively slanted towards special interests. Spin is allowed in their favor, but not the other direction (and shouldn't be allowed at all). So this means all our hard work is wasted time, as Gandy recently noted - we can spend hundreds of hours on an article and it can be scrubbed/changed/spun in an instant. That fact that this behaviour was given a very public thumbs-up recently has only compounded the problem (at least at the BP oil spill page).

	:Picture this: the tar sands ("Canadian oil sands") section written by a Greenpeace PR team, presented at the BP talk page and approved/added word-for-word to the BP article. Imagine if their first reference is to a 12-page brochure on the Greenpeace website about tar sands. Imagine this brochure quotes science that has the greenhouse gas emissions (tar sands' biggest problem) estimated at 56% instead of the accepted science from Stanford of a 23% increase. Imagine if this was pointed out to the Higher Ups, posted to Jimbo's talk page and the result was an overwhelming "Oh well". This is conversely the exact thing that happened. Presently the tar sands section is straight from BP PR and uses as its first ref. a nice shiny PDF from BP's website about tar sands which quotes a greenhouse gas emissions figure nearly 20% less than what is accepted by the scientific community. I showed this and that the BP version is indeed sanitized to the point of being useless and less informative than the previous (non-BP) version. If it's BP doing it, the community trips over itself defending the company and practices that allowed this. But what if it had been an environmental group instead? I can imagine the response would be dramatically different. Such a realization should stop us in our tracks and make us question: what is going on behind the scenes? Misplaced Pages purports to be interested in NPOV but when this claim is held up to the light, what emerges is a disturbing amount of personal attacks and obfuscation. Sometimes what used to feel like a community of exceedingly sharp minds (Misplaced Pages) feels more like MySpace. I just don't see how that can change until the High Ups who behave like this acknowledge their limitations & step down for the good of the Project. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 02:49, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
	:::::{{like}} Welcome back. ```]<small>]</small>
	::Totally understand your feelings on the subject, Petrarchan. I'm a relative novice here but can tell you that the futility of editing that page in the face of hard-core volunteer BP p.r. reps is a total turnoff. It is definitely a structural issue, built in to the marrow of Misplaced Pages that is simply not going to change. It's a shame that the public doesn't know how irretrievably screwed up Misplaced Pages is. ] (]) 21:16, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

	::Thanks P. Well, I am not sure how to proceed here, frankly. There seem to be some well-intentioned administrators and veteran users, but they have apparently recognized the issues to be irredeemable and have given up. In theory, Misplaced Pages processes are actually quite good. The neutrality rules make good sense, and they have a sound rule on biographies. What concerns me is the self-image that this is an "encyclopedia" in the Brittanica sense, which Misplaced Pages isn't. Brittanica commissions experts to author articles, while Misplaced Pages is crowdsourced, and it is the very antithesis of crowdsourcing when some members of the crowd are subjects of the article or are volunteer PR people. I don't think Wales fully comprehends this. He makes his living off the reputation of Misplaced Pages, apparently, yet he seems to have no interest in protecting its reputation. That's really all Misplaced Pages has; without that it loses everything. I think that in certain subject areas he just isn't very bright. ] (]) 22:21, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

	:::"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" - Upton Sinclair. I find it impossible to engage the illusion that this (lack of) response has no relation whatsoever to BP being one of the most profitable and powerful companies in the world.

	:::I used to think of Misplaced Pages like Britannica (which was my best friend growing up). I have always been in love with the idea of an encyclopedia, which is why this realization is truly, truly painful to me. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 22:35, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

	::::I thought about that, and I think that's probably an aspect of the situation. But I also think that he is a superficial person, vain and easily manipulated. I think that's what happened in the BP case, even if there haven't been communications outside of transparent Misplaced Pages channels. Its S.O.P. in the PR industry to get in touch with the chief when there is a problem, as I'm sure has happened in this case. Perhaps even an in-person visit. If not, then it just may be that he is merely self-deluded, engrained in his ways, and arrogantly assuming that Misplaced Pages's volunteers are capable of handling a PR onslaught. I know that his minions and sycophants have their heads rammed so far up their derrieres that it's almost funny. ] (]) 22:50, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
	:::::Bingo on all counts. "Almost" being the operative word. It would be amusing if this person weren't influential - but that is not the case. I said his response to the Violet Blue piece had all the emotional maturity of a dysfunctional 9 year-old, and I meant that very seriously. It would be funny except, in this case, it's dangerous because it is quickly leading to the death of our beloved Misplaced Pages. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 23:09, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
	::::::Violet Blue's article was objective and fair. I didn't understand the attacks on her from Wales and his surrogates, such as an administrator who kept tossing non sequiturs at me. He implied that this was all a conspiracy of people with dark motives who had previously attacked Misplaced Pages, and mentioned a particular publication that hasn't even written about BP! Bizarre. Did you see that? I asked him about it and he didn't reply. ] (]) 23:22, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
	:::::::Yes, I read every word. < Guy > . This is what I meant about corruption. There is no logical explanation for the response from the High Ups other than: something is amiss. Equally if not more disturbing was the reaction from the community. The first few days on Jimbo's page (after the first by Violet Blue) was absolute insanity with throngs of people screaming in defense of BP and all who supported the drafts, whilst trying to discredit and demean the whistle-blowers (for lack of a better word). '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 23:40, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

	:::::::You know, I misspoke. The behaviour looks identical to what you see in relationships where money has exchanged hands (inexplicable things taking place, looking the other way, claiming "nothing to see here" when that's CLEARLY false). But I don't think something like that happened here. The fact that it's such an influential, powerful company can alone explain this behaviour (especially given the personality traits you mentioned). The thing is, there really shouldn't be one Voice for this encyclopedia and I wasn't aware that there was until this episode. If there a Voice, it had better be a pretty clean one. Few could fill that role. It turns out even Mother Theresa had corruption in her. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 00:18, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
	:::::::::You two are the future of Misplaced Pages (if you can withstand the onslaught). Articles like BP are troubling in that they require so much time and effort by the volunteers to maintain any equilibrium. As you both point out, Jimbo seems to ignore the challenge faced by his unpaid workers. I am committed to do what I can to be a part of the solution and I look toward you and others for fair play and guidance. I busy myself with other tasks but the evolution of how paid editors are granted unhealthy freedoms is important to the Body Misplaced Pages. I may not repeat this elsewhere, but I am sure that Arturo is not the only editor receiving a paycheck for editing the article. ```]<small>]</small> 01:23, 17 April 2013 (UTC)....Core, Do you have a diff for the non sequitors? I need something interesting to read later. ```]<small>]</small> 01:28, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
	::::::::::I find it impossible to believe anyone would create and guard business or industry articles all day, every day (as some here do), for fun only. On another note, Buster, why do you stick around? What do you hope can be accomplished? '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 02:07, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
	::::::::::::I've wondered that myself. Buster, I'll try to root out some diffs. They're buried somewhere in the archives/talk page history. ] (]) 03:51, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
	:::::::::::::I stick around WP for many fun reasons that are very different than editing BP. But I assume you're asking about BP. One reason is to protect our reader from paid editing. As a rookie I came upon the ] article looking for info on who the hell she was. I read that "She and Todd got married......." but I knew they had eloped. So I innocently changed it to share what I knew to be fact. The Palinist's were outraged and a week-long debate and edit war erupted. Eventually other more important issues surfaced and the editing ensemble moved on. But I was amazed at the furor of some editors to keep out facts that might hurt their candidate. Years later a similar amazement occurred when a block of editors refused to admit that ] was Newt Gingrich's third wife in her WP article; twisting and turning and throwing WP BLP rules around to get their way. To the best of my knowledge elope and third are still in the articles. Of course there have been other incidents of COI control that I have fought: the Newt Gingrich Campaign article was a battle every step of the way. Thinking about answering your question I realize that it may have been the bully-boy tactics that were used that really strengthened my resolve to do what I could to combat paid editors. Subtle attacks, little digs, ignoring requests, needing to always be on the defensive when all I wanted to was present the reader the facts. So, I stick around to make sure the reader is not misled into thinking Sara had a wedding with flowers and 5 hand maidens and a church full of people. (Which would be the logical assumption that the Palinists wanted the reader to have). I stick around to make sure that the innocent reader knows that Newt has had 3 wives and they might wonder (and investigate) what happened to the first 2. I stick around the BP article because I want the reader to have an article that's fair and balanced, that doesn't sugarcoat the worst corporate disaster of modern times, that hasn't been victim to the word manipulators on their payroll. And, I stick around because there are editors like you two....and dozens of others that I edit with at more easy-going projects. I may not inject myself into every thread but I read them all and do the best I can to understand the dynamics at work. I stick around because I think paid editing is contrary to the basic premise of Misplaced Pages; the idea that "anyone can edit". Corporations/companies/religions/campaigns come here to abuse their capacity to manipulate the "masses" and I don't like it. ```]<small>]</small> 05:58, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
	::::::::::::::Sorry, when I said "I wonder that myself" I was referring to P saying "I find it impossible to believe anyone would create and guard business or industry articles all day, every day (as some here do), for fun only." Total opacity on my part! ] (]) 13:40, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
	::::::::::::::::::I also find it hard to believe...and to swallow! ```]<small>]</small> 06:39, 18 April 2013 (UTC)BTW, Petra, I am studying up on the spill itself, taking notes, doing research... and I promise to join the editors at the DWH article soon. After all, that was a condition of your return and I am thrilled that you did. ```]<small>]</small> 06:39, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
	:::::::::::::::::::I am more than thrilled to hear this. Not sure if you noticed, but I've been leaving good summary articles . Normally, I have found that it is difficult to get news about the oil spill effects - unless it's about financial aspects or super old news. But, tomorrow is the 3 year anniversary, and at this time each year, fantastic articles come out - ones perfectly suited for Wiki. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 03:25, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
	::::::::::::::But on the issue you address: yes, why indeed. I'm not sure it is an optimal use of one's time. However, I think that your comment "I stick around because I think paid editing is contrary to the basic premise of Misplaced Pages; the idea that 'anyone can edit'. Corporations/companies/religions/campaigns come here to abuse their capacity to manipulate the 'masses' and I don't like it." - that, I think, is the only really good argument I've heard recently for editing Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 13:42, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

	==@BP:talk#Judge, jury and executioner==
	I bring the following here because I do NOT want to go "Off-road" at the BP article. There is a delicious flow of give and take, point/counterpoint, that will lead, in my estimation, to a better article for Our Reader and the last thing I want to do is stop the flow. Someone said (paraphrased) "As far as I know, Arturo is the only paid employee.......". And that was actually my point. As Far as any of us know, Artro is the not the only sanctioned BP supporter at the article. We don't know any different and, most likely, never will. But it is illogical to assume that a multi-Billion dollar entity like BP would trust it's Misplaced Pages input and its position at the many search engines to one good natured individual. To me it's a foregone conclusion that Arturo is NOT a lone paid editor. One individual just doesn't make sense. My claim of "more than one" is just as valid as others who claim "only one". As far as I know, my claim is more realistic and reality based. Of course, in the interest of ''Keeping Calm and Carrying On'' I'll try to keep my opinions to myself. TRY being the operative word. ```]<small>]</small> 19:18, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

	:Yes, it doesn't make sense, and I recall something about a "team" being involved in Misplaced Pages. Hence your concern is well-taken. ] (]) 19:43, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

	::And when we're asked to believe the unbelievable, it's best not to. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 21:23, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
	:::If it looks like crap and smells like crap and feels like crap, you don't taste it to verify what you know. ```]<small>]</small> 06:42, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
	::::I have to say that I'm rather looking forward to the next week or so, as I'm just consumed with work and will not be looking in much on Misplaced Pages. It's not the work I'm looking forward to but the "not looking in" part, as it's just too frustrating. Guys, we need to recruit more mature editors for Misplaced Pages. I sometimes sense that teenagers are ruling the roost here. ] (]) 16:21, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
	::::I'm the same. Busy work/travel till Wed. Teen-agers and old geezers. What a pairing! I'm sure I'll stop in to visit. Ive started to take notes for my notes. ```]<small>]</small> 17:00, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
	:::::Buster, you asked earlier about an exchange I alluded to that I found to be strange. Take a look at and look for an exchange that I have with "Guy" where he talks about a publication called "The Register" that he indicated was behind the paid-editor controversy. I found no articles in The Register or by the writer he mentions on BP. Then later there are some threatening-type comments he made about a "small band of griefers" being involved in the BP thing. Again, had no idea what he is talking about. Unless I'm missing something big, concern over BP and paid editing is entirely exterior to Misplaced Pages and there doesn't seem to be any subculture of dissenters that is grumbling about it. In fact, I've been examining a new article called ], and I'm impressed by the extent to which Misplaced Pages people are totally out to lunch on the concept of "controversy." They have no idea what it is, and wouldn't recognize a real controversy when they see one if it bit them on the butt. ] (]) 21:52, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
	::::::I'm thinking the writing's on the wall, y'all. The only reasonable response to Paid Advocacy on Misplaced Pages is an equal counter-force, which means a pro ''and'' a team of Wiki supporters willing to go all out, night and day. There is no way a ragtag group of volunteers can hold up against the endless insanity of 20-years old's who just ''love'' PR on Wiki, and spend their free time enthusiastically defending the practice. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 04:20, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
	:::::::Is there some validity to your suggestion that certain editors are not old enough to drink (in some states :~)? Core...Thanks for the link. I'll check it out when time allows. ```]<small>]</small> 21:41, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
	::::::::The last editor who recently stopped by to suggest we do a RfC (and mentioned he'd go ask a trusted Admin) was 20, according to user boxes. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 23:47, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

	== Gulf production percentage correction ==

	Reuters corrected the number in their story on BP Gulf production as a percentage of the total.

	] (]) 13:59, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
	:Fixed it. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 21:43, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
	::Petra. If this is one of the requests that Arturo made on 4/18/2013 @ ==Texas City info improvement requested== can you please tag it as ]. It really helps to know which requests are open and which are done...and facilitates monitoring of all BP requests. Thanks. ```]<small>]</small> 22:28, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
	:::It's not; he made the request here only. I left a note on his talk to leave content-based requests at BP talk rather than here, good to keep it all in one place. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 00:30, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
	::::*Regarding ]....Hey Petra, would you have a problem if I put each of your links into its own seperate sub-thread? This way any conversation about each stays seperate and easier for everyone to follow. BTW, thanks for supporting my idea. I think it has already helped to keep things orderly and manageable and, even if only slightly, reduce the stress not just at BP but at any article that has to deal with Representative Editor. I'm gonna put together a few paragraphs and present the idea at Jimbo's page. I hope it gets some wings!!!```]<small>]</small> 22:12, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
	::::::Sounds good - note that my links only go to previous talk page sections for each needed addition. BTW, what do you think of the difference between how we collectively react to BP suggestions vs independent ones? What I think Jimbo needs to know is that there is nothing npov about the talk page activity at BP. It really does seem there is a boss there and we all answer to him. Suggestions by others are ignored. The thought of suggesting or adding less than positive content can produce ulcers and name-calling; I believe that we ignore those additions and topics because we don't want the grief. This is 100% wrong, is the result of a rep breathing down our backs, and my patience with this unspoken agreement, sanctioned by Jimbo et al, is growing very thin. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 22:33, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
	::::::::A by product of sub-threading is the capacity to observe, without overlapping and jumbled discussion, who is responding. I'll do the request for a date change or a # of sush-snd-such change, but I.m reluctant to do the 'can we change the wording" changes. I think that is the area that a corporate rep can manipulate. (And...Arturo, if you are reading this, I am not inferring that you do that. One of my goals is to create a better working relationship with you for ALL BP editors. The BP article talk page has the potential to be the example for WP's future paid editor guidelines). Petra, I would point out that Arturo made a request about a week ago and, as far as I know, not one request has been implemented.
	:::::::::The list from independent editors can't really be compared to Arturo's; it's not as simple as adding an update. All the (indie) sections require discussion on what to say before being added. A section would be marked "done" for Arturo if his requests are added. For the indie list, sections require discussion about content, weight and wording. If there was a counter-force equal to Arturo, the writing would be done for us, and we would only have to agree and add or tweak it. Our job is harder and we are using our free time, which might be another factor contributing to an unbalanced article when PR reps are active on the page. If you are suggesting Arturo's additions receive more attention because they're easier to deal with, at least the non-contentious ones, I would agree that's probably happening and probably quite natural. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 03:36, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
	There may be an unspoken agreement but no one has acted upon it. Don't forget to have some fun so that your patience stays balanced... :~)...```]<small>]</small> 00:24, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

	::It wasn't unspoken, it was a on the talk page asking that we halt implementation of Arturo's suggested requests. Being busy with other interests, I happily obliged. Did you miss that comment? Honestly, my time and energy is limited right now, and that is contributing to my lack of participation on all areas of the BP talk page. If you're making content-specific comments (re change of wording), please be more specific or even leave them at the section in question. If you're speaking of the AE section, the change is wording is not at all controversial in RS (ample refs at talk page). That change in wording should be no more controversial at this encyclopedia. If it is, this is an example of the NPOV problem I wrote of earlier. My addition of the list today was not to imply it needs hurried attention, but to save it from archives, and to request we treat needed additions with equal weight - which is not being done. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 00:44, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
	::::::Petra...you mentioned unspoken agreement here ''"...and my patience with this unspoken agreement, sanctioned by Jimbo et al, is growing very thin."'' That is the unspoken agreement comment I am referring to. As to the other I don't think that would be the right thing to do. As uncomfortable as we might be with implementing Arturo's request I don't think that in good conscience we can just ignore them and pretend they don't exist. But don't fret. Your involement should not be more than you feel comfortable with. No one expects you to carry the load. You do waht you do, I do what I do, Core does what he does. I'll look at Arturo's requests again, but I doubt that I will make any of the changes he asks for. Not because they are not valid, but just because I choose not to. ```]<small>]</small> 04:36, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

	::::::::Buster, Core said above that he was gone until Wednesday, I took his "wait" to implement as a "wait til I get back", which meant less than a week - certainly there is no indication in my history showing I don't want to help Arturo update and correct the page. This very thread shows once I'm aware of a needed update, I do it within minutes.

	::::::::As for that unspoken agreement, yes - we did enter an agreement,, it turns out, to deal directly with BP and the dynamics of that if we are to edit this particular page. I'm not ok with that. I think it should be done in a way that doesn't use volunteer time, like yours, but rather that all suggestions and comments from the company should go through an OTRS ticket system, which would be facilitated by a totally dispassionate, very npov administrative team set up to deal with the CIO needs and to help indies deal with the CREWE-type onslaught. Also, there is a strong emotional pull to please and to refrain from displeasing the company and its rep. I don't feel this at any other page, not even close. This, and the nightmare editing experience at ] that ensues from simply trying to elevate whitewashing is directly related to a company rep having direct communication with independent editors. We should not have to feel the need to apologize or mention our editing is not personal - we shouldn't be in that situation in the first place, when our goal is to simply update an encyclopedia. In cases this this, where the subject is being sued and is in quite a bit of trouble, there should be oversight equal to what BP is offering in their defense, but from an admin team aware of potential problems. It is too much to ask of us. It's too much pressure, it isn't fair, and within no time we indies are caught up in our own battles and hurt feelings, rendering ourselves useless. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 19:17, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

	::We did agree that a counter-weight is needed. This section pointing out ignored requests by independent editors, asking for equal consideration, seems like an example of what such a counter-force would do. What we are missing is the group of organized, communicating editors like CREWE. I would point out too, that some of those sections have waited far longer than a week, even though arguments against have ceased, indicating green light. I'm sick of being the bad guy there, and don't want to add negative content to the article. And it pisses me off that this is the case. My editing experience shouldn't be different there than any other page - but it is, I am limited to adding only positive or neutral content ''or'' deal with a nightmare on the talk page.'''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 01:30, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

	== You might want to look at ==

			If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have provided evidence that their copyright owners have agreed to license their works under the tags you supplied, too. Here is ]. '''Files lacking evidence of permission may be deleted one week after they have been tagged''', as described in ]. You may wish to read Misplaced Pages's ]. If you have any questions please ask them at the ]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Di-no permission-notice --> ]] 01:39, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
	http://www.digiday.com/agencies/wikipedias-dubious-ad-company-entries/
	which is from an industry publication targeting the digital media PR firms of the world, saying how there are problems with these folks of WP. ]<sub>(<font color="cc6600">]</font>)</sub> 22:33, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
	:Appreciated. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 00:32, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 03:37, 3 December 2024

SEMI-RETIRED This user is no longer very active on Misplaced Pages.

disruptive whitewashing on Who's Who

If you continue removing sourced criticism despite repeated reverts from other editors, I will ask an uninvolved admin to block you at WP:ANI. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 02:58, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Some of your changes weren't as bad as I thought – I saw massive swathes of content vanishing from the article, as when you previously removed all mention of the various scams. Some of your edits were actually removing unsourced content, which I shouldn't have reverted. So, for that, I apologize for being too hasty (and clearly not reading the diffs well enough). Still, you need to stop edit warring to remove sourced content from that article. Hold an WP:RFC, raise the issue at WP:NPOVN, or do something else to establish consensus. Showing up every few weeks to blank sections is disruptive. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 03:23, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Whitewashing is a pretty serious charge. The difference between my version and yours is two paragraphs - in your version you re-added the following but changed nothing else:

”One example was the Who's Who Among American High School Students which was criticized for questionable nomination practices as well as whether the listing's entries are fact-checked and accurate. According to the admissions vice president of Hamline University, "It's honestly something that an admissions officer typically wouldn't consider or wouldn't play into an admissions decision," adding that "Who's Who... is just trying to sell books".

Who's Who publications are not all of questionable value, but publishers that select truly notable people and provide trustworthy information on them are hard to identify. A & C Black's Who's Who is the canonical example of a legitimate Who's Who reference work, being the first to use the name and establish the approach in print, publishing annually since 1849. However, the longevity of a publication is not in itself a guarantee. In 1999 Tucker Carlson said in Forbes magazine that Marquis Who's Who, founded in 1898 but no longer an independent company, had adopted practices of address harvesting as a revenue stream, undermining its claim to legitimacy as a reference work listing people of merit.”

The example of a high school scam comes from low quality sources: 1 and 2 I left it out of my version for that reason, and because this is a short, list-style article, thought mentioning every single instance there was a printed complaint about some version of a “who’s who” wasn’t necessary. I don’t think you can call this whitewashing when I’ve already addressed the scams in the Lede and body in a way you yourself found (nearly) sufficient.

The second paragraph you re-added was from Tucker Carlson, known as a conspiracy theorist and to my knowledge, not allowed on WP as a source. My removal of Carlson is not whitewashing to my knowledge, but perhaps I’ll check with the RS notice board to make sure.

Your paragraphs also make me wonder about the author, as they seem less reliant upon RS and sound very editorialized. The quotes selected are not neutral, considering how Carlson’s statement in my initial comment above wasn’t included whilst it would give the reader much better context. (“ “There are cases-- relatively few in our judgment--of individuals with decidedly modest vocational achievement being included in the Who's Who volumes.”)

“Whitewashing” should be reserved for describing the removal of negative content. What I’ve done is to try and present the facts in a balanced way. This was what I was trying to clean up - and my fix is nearly identical to the present one, so how am I the problem? petrarchan47 คุ ก 14:38, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious
Two years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:03, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Dear Gerda, such a jewel you are. Thank you petrarchan47 คุ ก 14:41, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Minor correction, though ~ I began editing in 2013 petrarchan47 คุ ก 15:01, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Barnstar Awarded!

		The Environmental Barnstar
		Awarded in recognition for your legacy work on the Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill and other environmental articles. Also thanks for joining WP:Environment last month, with more editors like you, the WP will thrive. Hoping to see you a bit more, cheers! Jusdafax (talk) 04:17, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

JusDaFax What an honor, thank you, mon ami. Let me know if I can help in any way on environmental articles. I’m quite out of the loop, so please feel free to offer some guidance. It would be wonderful to work with you again. petrarchan47 คุ ก 01:13, 28 June 2022 (UTC) Jusdafax

Welcome back! ―Buster7 ☎ 13:08, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi Buster! Thank you so much. How are things? Hot and steamy here, but the morning glories are finally blooming. Any word from our dear friends? petrarchan47 คุ ก 23:04, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

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Discussion re-opened

Just as heads up that I have recently re-opened a discussion you participated in back in 2019. The question was about whether the article about Jeffrey Epstein’s island should include content about a science conference Stephen Hawking happened to be part of. You seemed to support the inclusion, mainly because two other editors supported the inclusion. Since then, those two editors have been indefinitely banned from the Misplaced Pages, and an investigation in to their bans shows that the two editors had problems with editing about conspiracy theories or WP:BLP related issues. That in mind, I have removed the problematic content from the Little Saint James, U.S. Virgin Islands article, since there is no longer consensus for its inclusion. Samboy (talk) 22:40, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

{

{font|text=~~~ Merry Christmas! ~~~|font=Century Gothic|size=30px|color=#bf00bf}}

Joyeux Noël! ~ Buon Natale! ~ Vrolijk Kerstfeest! ~ Frohe Weihnachten!
¡Feliz Navidad! ~ Feliz Natal! ~ Καλά Χριστούγεννα! ~ Hyvää Joulua!
God Jul! ~ Glædelig Jul! ~ Linksmų Kalėdų! ~ Priecīgus Ziemassvētkus!
Häid Jõule! ~ Wesołych Świąt! ~ Boldog Karácsonyt! ~ Veselé Vánoce!
Veselé Vianoce! ~ Crăciun Fericit! ~ Sretan Božić! ~ С Рождеством!

Hello, Petra! Hope all is well with you and yours. Wishing you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! ―Buster7 ☎ 20:17, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Fan Mail

As you say at Gandy's page ...its good to know you are doing well

―Buster7 ☎ 05:00, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious
-Three years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:13, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Unblock request as established user

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Petrarchan47 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

Requesting an IP block exemption as established user; IP block due to IP "anonymizing proxy" range petrarchan47 คุ ก 21:08, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Decline reason:

The procedure for getting IPBE now is to follow the directions at WP:IPECPROXY to request it by email. Regular admins just can't hand it out like we used to. — Daniel Case (talk) 06:46, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

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A Gathering is Happening

Hi Petra. It's Buster7 :) I'm forwarding this invitation I got from an editor that reminds me of you and Gandy.

(((I'm looking to interview people here. Feel free to pass if you're not interested. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 12:40, 4 December 2023 (UTC))))

It's worth a visit! I hope to see you and Gandy there!!! Buster7 (talk) 14:05, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Holiday Greetings

Peace is a state of balance and understanding in yourself and between others, where respect is gained by the acceptance of differences, tolerance persists, conflicts are resolved through dialog, people's rights are respected and their voices are heard, and everyone is at their highest point of serenity without social tension. Happy Holidays to you and yours. I hope you still visit these pages every once in a while. A recent gathering of editors has sent me into a time-travel loop to revisit the distant past where I stumbled upon our playful sharing's of long ago. What a Joy. What fun it was. For me, your page was an oasis. Life is GOOD. Hope the same for you. ―Buster7 ☎

Hi there dear Buster7, I've just been released from another (this time 6 month) range-block. I do indeed recall the good ole days, and feel the same as you. In fact, I found myself checking up on the BP oil spill and there is quite a lot of updating to be done, much research and peer reviewed papers have come out discussing the longer-term damage and effects from the oil and Corexit. It seems like something we could get together as a small group once again to work on (if I can remain free of these blocks). I need to touch base with Gandydancer too, if I can find her new location.

Any updates from your end? How are things? petrarchan47 คุ ก 00:10, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

What a wonderment to hear your song again. The idea of "your song" comes from User:ARoseWolf a recent Editor of the Week and someone you should know. I'm still giving out the weekly awards (534 so far) and clerking at Editor Retention. Reminds me of the years my wife and I had a resale store in the neighborhood. Most days were easy going and then....all of a sudden....customers! I'll have to search out where I have info on Gandy's new identity. I know it's on my watchlist but where? Life is good. We are headed to NYC next month to stay at my nieces apt while she and her family go on Holiday. I like saying "Go On Holiday". It sounds so British!!! We were in London, on Holiday, a few months back visiting an old friend of my wife from 55 years ago. They worked in Tehran and corresponded every now and then. Still working at a local library a few days a week...security. How hard can that be? Watching too much TV but finding some gems. 3 Body Problem is worth a look. And I draw while watching, so "I got that going for me which is nice!". Life is Good. Lets Find Gandy!!! and have a reunion. Buster Seven Talk (UTC) 05:47, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Buster7 I am range blocked again until 2027. Let me try to remedy this issue... do you have any insight? Or perhaps know someone who might? Luckily I'm able to edit my TP!

My last big trip was to London to see my brother. Did you have fun there? As for finding Gandy, I think I can hunt her down. I'll race you!

Editor retention has got to be challenging when they're blocking people like this. Are you aware of the issue? I wonder if editors have been informed about this new process?

Delightful to touch base again, Buster! Enjoy the Spring, and New York, and keep that library safe! petrarchan47 คุ ก 02:03, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Don't know much about range blocking. From what I read @ Misplaced Pages:Administrators' guide/Blocking/Tools it mostly has to do with IP addresses' . Range blocks are explained over at Mediawiki with the strange sentence' You should avoid performing range blocks unless you understand what you are doing, or you may end up blocking tens of thousands or even millions of people who are not the problem!. Sounds like an admin could create a huge kerfuffle. Is that what happened to you? Love going to London. Love Minding the Gap! Love an English breakfast. Love going to Harrods and pretending I'm actually going to buy the $10000 sofa. Love Love Love Fish n Chips (No vinegar!!). Love everything around the Thames. Love St James Place near Buckingham Palace. Love seeing Arsenal or Chelsea play. Love having a chat and a fag with a brit from up North and barely understanding a word he says but loving every minute. Love spending hours people watching at Trafalgar Square. Love hearing someone talking Flemish (my native tongue) in line to get into the British Museum. And Love you and gandy!!! Buster Seven Talk (UTC) 05:22, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Flemish?!! I visited Bruges drcades ago and havent heard much if any mention of that language since then.

I got a response back from the admins, my appeal to remove the block was declined and now I am told to wait a few days to mull over the response, which was:

Looking at our logs, it appears the IP address that you are editing from belongs to a proxy service. Open or anonymizing proxies, including VPNs, iCloud Private Relay, Tor, and web hosting services, are blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. While this may affect legitimate users, they are not the intended targets. No restrictions are placed on reading Misplaced Pages through an open or anonymous proxy.

Although Misplaced Pages encourages anyone in the world to contribute, open proxies are often used abusively. MediaWiki, the wiki software that powers Misplaced Pages, depends on IP addresses for administrator intervention against abuse, especially by anonymous users. Open proxies allow malicious users to rapidly change IP addresses, causing continuous disruption that cannot be stopped by administrators. Several such attacks have occurred on Wikimedia projects, causing disruption and occupying administrators who would otherwise deal with other concerns.

Unfortunately, you will not be able to edit while using this open proxy.

I am no techie, and have no idea what all this means. petrarchan47 คุ ก 22:19, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Buster7 Ignore all of the above. I switched to my desktop and the problem seems to be solved. Now to find Gandy... petrarchan47 คุ ก 22:24, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi

I hope ur still there

Just wanted to ask to a truly unbiased admin, as I've seen through/extensively read up several discussions on wiki before I started to finally post stuff on talk pages quite recently - Why are all my edits being undone by a single admin

Is it wikistalking

or more importantly

Is there a possibility of a 'heavy handed effort' I've seen elsewhere on this wiki at work / affecting stuff here?

(In the sense that my comment was something like this (at Talk: Arab wikipedia -> section : Neutrality lost?))

👇 2402:E280:3D1D:5B0:A931:9CB8:4420:455 (talk) 08:57, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

"Those colors are pan-Arab. But the text they added in the main page clearly states that Arabic Misplaced Pages stands in solidarity with Palestine. A formal complaint? Much good that would do. I am a regular Misplaced Pages donor because I believe in Misplaced Pages's mission statement. It's sad to see those core principals erode."

"Basically the Arab version of the English "pseudoscience effort"

Pls do mention this too out there too"

Two comments made by me and earlier,someone else (the other guy's, atleast was pretty much on-topic, on-discussion) were reverted as SOAPBOXing for grounds that are pretty much only criticising enwiki or wiki in general when there is certainly stuff to criticize even on enwiki

2402:E280:3D1D:5B0:A931:9CB8:4420:455 (talk) 08:59, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Does semi retired mean that I should not look here for answers? Just curious

Ig even totally retired bois come back to answer a req. unless ofc if they're deceased or disconnected from the net right 2402:E280:3D1D:5B0:A931:9CB8:4420:455 (talk) 09:07, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Since I've anyways already asked so many questions I might as well complete it by asking one more last ye

Is editing to talk pages only

a blockable rationale, even in theory ,i.e., even if u hypothetically erased all the obvious double standards (obvious as in when u start by first seeing the the article of - say, ayurveda) ? 2402:E280:3D1D:5B0:A931:9CB8:4420:455 (talk) 09:16, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Was tempted to tell even more it out all openly at that particular TP but (besides that it would indeed be rolling highly off-topic and ranting to a point,) I knew, from what I have read here, that wiki is not as highly democratic as it seems to be and that there indeed is/may be a heavy hand (of sorts) on the site to be mindful of (regds. to what u say), in which case I can easily consider the comment i posted there as 'highly risky' 2402:E280:3D1D:5B0:A931:9CB8:4420:455 (talk) 09:25, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

And when I say talk pageS, I meant quite a few diverse and unrelated talk pages like the one on SB

I had sensed an air of heavy-handedness/"unwelcomed"-ness(/whatever the right word is) right there itself, but I chose not to assume until it came to a deletion + SOAPBOXING charge by the same fella at a mention of something like 'the 'pseudoscience' problem here'

To further understand all of this potentially 'rambled-tangled' text, u may wanna see my diffs/contribs. 2402:E280:3D1D:5B0:A931:9CB8:4420:455 (talk) 09:36, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Plus a WP:BITE concern abt the same person I addressed to a totally different third party (before it became what I saw/see as a glaring obviousness abt this site and its 'admins'

Actually, R U an admin ? - sheesh didn't ask this basic thing all this while 2402:E280:3D1D:5B0:A931:9CB8:4420:455 (talk) 09:40, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

again, I repeat,

To further understand all of this potentially 'rambled-tangled' text, u may wanna see the diffs/contribs. 2402:E280:3D1D:5B0:A931:9CB8:4420:455 (talk) 09:45, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Reunion 2024

I found the beloved Gandy, Buster7. She's Sectionworker! petrarchan47 คุ ก 22:41, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

petrarchan47 คุ ก 22:41, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Yes, but she hasn't made any contributions since May 15 of 2023. Fingers crossed she comes to visit and sees our interest. Buster Seven Talk (UTC) 16:48, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Fingers: Crossed petrarchan47 คุ ก 00:39, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Fingers crossed not working. Starting to cross toes!!! Buster Seven Talk (UTC) 03:27, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

You may wanna see this ⬇️

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FuJT9mp0jw&list=PLoXVez7Y_XKVTBHJYyJjDbA6bUBo7JOWf 103.137.93.97 (talk) 23:53, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

P.S. The previous IP was also me, so pls notify if u don't wanna hear more cos ur retired, I'll gladly oblige and things will atleast be clear

(Hope my revelation doesn't get me in trouble 😅) 103.137.93.97 (talk) 00:02, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

It's a lost cause, my friend. But realize that at this point, everyone knows the word "encyclopedia" is much like the word "news". These terms once evoked trust, and were seen as a safe place for truth to reside, awaiting the curious. Now, they have people racing to 'do their own research':

what are others saying?

who is funding the studies?

who is funding the platform?

where are the conflicts of interest and how have these factors affected the truth?

Following the money turns out to be a worthwhile pasttime for the armchair researcher (as we are by default called to be). petrarchan47 คุ ก 00:53, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Toby the outside cat

Toby lives outside. He is not homeless as he has many homes he visits throughout the neighborhood. But my 120 year-old building is his base. He once was an inside cat but his owners, now former tenants of mine, let him out one day, he tasted freedom, and now scorns entering any doorway. He just arrived (at 6AM) to check his dish which another tenant fills daily. Empty! I told him to go catch a city rat and eat it this time instead of dropping it off, decapitated, in my yard. He looked at me and walked away, insulted that I asked him to actually eat his prey. I didn't want to tell Toby that his former mate, Amy, was passing away upstairs. See, the former jerk tenant, that I had to evict for non-payment of rent, had four cats. Toby, his mate Amy, and two of their kittens that were adults. The jerk tenant completely abandoned the three inside cats leaving it to me to call the Anti-Cruelty Society to pick them up for adoption since they were good cats. They came but we only found two. Two weeks later, Amy jumped out of a hide-a-bed we were dismantling for discard and went to hide. For weeks she hid (not to well since we knew where she was) on the enclosed back porch, We LET HER BE, as instructed by the Beetles but she didn't eat food or drink we put out for her. On day she was gone! I left windows open and figured she jumped out one and went to join Toby in the Great Outdoors. Sadly that was not the case. A few days ago, my first floor tenant tells me he has been hearing mice in his bathroom ceiling. Knowing there is an access panel to the 6' foot tub and that I had opened it weeks ago to start a repair that was now on hold, I knew it was Amy. As I write this, Amy is in the throws of death. I can't get to her, poor thing. I dropped some wet food down to her and water but she is comatose...still breathing but barely. If I could I would end her pain but I can't reach her to help. Toby doesn't Know. I haven't told him. Maybe Tomorrow. Buster Seven Talk (UTC) 05:02, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Our cat Starr (named after Ringo) doesn't know either. I don't think I will tell him!!! Buster Seven Talk (UTC)

Buster I'm sorry to hear this sad story. what ended up happening? (Crossing my toes too. We love you Gandy.) petrarchan47 คุ ก 01:29, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Sorry to report that precious Amy did not survive her ordeal. She passed away overnight in late August. Animal Cruelty passed my call on to City Services who never did respond in time to save her. There was not much we could do to help her or ease her suffering. If you can visualize this, she was halfway... under pipes and the floor all under the tub. We scooted food and water, but she never touched it...not for days. She was never socialized to humans and because of that she hid and stayed away. Her chosen hiding place led to her death. So sad, poor little thing. We wrapped her in some linen and buried her in the garden. Buster Seven Talk (UTC) 03:34, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

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