Misplaced Pages

Latest revision as of 21:07, 29 December 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Zadar article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6Auto-archiving period: 2 months

This  level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Croatia High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Croatia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Croatia on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CroatiaWikipedia:WikiProject CroatiaTemplate:WikiProject CroatiaCroatia High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Cities This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cities, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of cities, towns and various other settlements on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CitiesWikipedia:WikiProject CitiesTemplate:WikiProject CitiesWikiProject Cities Illyria Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Illyria, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Illyria and Illyrians on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IllyriaWikipedia:WikiProject IllyriaTemplate:WikiProject IllyriaIllyria Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to the Balkans or Eastern Europe, which has been designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Ethnic Italians

Knowing that the Austro-Hungarian censuses only asked for people's "language of communication", how did we get to "local ethnic Italians" in Special:Diff/1260937330/1262425615. In that edit, not all sentences are sourced. The first and the third sentence most likely constitute WP:OR. Can we get reliable sources, with exact quotations on this talk page, please. Ponor (talk) 10:46, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

@Ponor: First of all, thank you for writing to me in my talk. Yes, it's just a question of words: I'll remove "local ethnic" without any problems, it's actually a useless specification. LukeWiller (talk) 12:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

@LukeWiller: we should follow the source as closely as possible. So, what EXACTLY does the source say? What is the source for the first added sentence? What is the source for the third added sentence? Per WP:SYNTH, we may not lead the reader into believing "if A and B then C", if all three are not said in the source, exactly like that.

Also, I believe you should refrain from adding this same information to every possible article while this issue is under discussion. The conclusions you're presenting are highly controversial, and there's more to the story. For example, people faced limited opportunities unless they identified as "Italian." You're completely omitting that aspect. Ponor (talk) 21:42, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

@Ponor: Yes, I apologize, I thought the general problem was solved. I would say to wait for other opinions. LukeWiller (talk) 23:04, 11 December 2024 (UTC).

@LukeWiller, Misplaced Pages is source-based, not opinion based. So please, secondary sources first so we can discuss things. You're not allowed to synthesize from primary sources. Yes, there was Italian Exodus, but no, that was not the only source of primarily-Italian-speaking population decline, to my knowledge. Ponor (talk) 14:56, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

@Ponor No, sorry, if you have doubts about your personal knowledge, you should be the one to bring new sources, not me. LukeWiller (talk) 14:59, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

@LukeWiller: it's not about new sources, it's about any sources. If you attached a source to each sentence that you added I'd know what we're talking about and would be able to discuss it. If that's so hard, I'm beginning to think that's not what we'll find in any sources for Trogir, Split, Krk (town) and all others where you were adding these same words. So once again, what are the sources? Please, please, and please. Ponor (talk) 15:35, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Comments and questions on the article

1. The climate section says "Snow is exceedingly rare, but it may fall in December, January, February and much more rarely in March. On average Zadar has 1.4 days of snow a year, but it is more likely that there isn’t snow."

It needs two citations and it's redundant with "Snow is exceedingly rare, but it may fall" and "it is more likely that there isn’t snow".

2. The Early Middle Ages section mentions "agers".

Are those "a general term for a district or tract of country that belonged to a political society and had definite limits according to Roman law"?

3. The same story is told in the High Middle Ages section with "In 1409, Venice, seeing that Ladislaus was about to be defeated, and eager to exploit the situation despite its relative military weakness, offered to buy his "rights" on Dalmatia for a mere 100,000 ducats. Knowing he had lost the region in any case, Ladislaus accepted. Zadar was, thus sold back to the Venetians for a paltry sum." and in the "15th to 18th centuries" section with "After the death of Louis I, Zadar came under the rule of Sigmund of Luxembourg and later Ladislaus of Naples, who, witnessing his loss of influence in Dalmatia, sold Zadar and his dynasty's rights to Dalmatia to Venice for 100,000 ducats on 31 July 1409." This is not only reduntant but also a misplacement. The first passage should be removed because it belongs in the 15th century.

4. The "15th to 18th centuries" section says "In contrast to the insecurity and Ottoman sieges and destruction, an important culture evolved midst the city walls."

Should "midst" be "within"?

5. The list of landmarks includes the Five Wells Square which needs a description.

6. The "Transportation" section says "As the company discounted bus-replacement service in 2020, Zadar has officially become the city without passenger railway connections."

The passage is really unclear and needs revision.

7. The "Sports" section says "Other Sports: Badminton: Badminton club Zadar." which should be completed with a sentence and some more information.

8. The article lists various recipients of the "City of Zadar Award". It should also explain what that is.

9. The bust of Pope Sixtus I has nothing to do among the images that relate to architecture. It's uncorrelated and it's an outlier. I don't even think it should be in the article and it's not so important that it has to be there anyway unless there is some text talking about Pope Sixtus I.

10. The sections on demographics, economy, education and science should be before the section on the main sights. The section on notable people should be at the end.

11. The list of twinned cities should have flags.

ICE77 (talk) 21:07, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

• C-Class level-5 vital articles
• Misplaced Pages level-5 vital articles in Geography
• C-Class vital articles in Geography
• C-Class Croatia articles
• High-importance Croatia articles
• All WikiProject Croatia pages
• C-Class WikiProject Cities articles
• All WikiProject Cities pages
• C-Class Illyria articles
• Mid-importance Illyria articles
• All WikiProject Illyria pages