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| {{OnThisDay|date1=2009-03-11|oldid1=275825972|date2=2010-03-11|oldid2=349264728|date3=2016-03-11|oldid3=709446031|date4=2021-03-11|oldid4=1011484028}} | |||
| {{WikiProject Opera|class=B}} | |||
| {{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|vital=yes|1= | |||
| {{WikiProject Opera}} | |||
| }} | |||
| {{Archives|auto=yes|search=yes}} | |||
| ==How many acts?== | |||
| {{OnThisDay|date1=2009-03-11|oldid1=275825972|date2=2010-03-11|oldid2=349264728}} | |||
| Some versions of this opera, such as for instance the Schirmer piano-vocal score, have it in FOUR acts, the First Act ending with Monterone's curse and the Second Act beginning with Rigoletto's initial encounter with Sparafucile and ending when the courtiers abduct Gilda. Should the article mention this? I report, you decide. ] (]) 23:05, 22 May 2016 (UTC) | |||
| == Question == | |||
| == Bella figlia dell’amore == | |||
| Did Liszt actually transcribe the opera Rigoletto? Or just the famous paraphrase of "Bella figlia dell'amore" in Act IV? | |||
| I think that the act 3 quartet '']'' deserves an article of its own, see | |||
| == Notability of Armando Gabba, baritone singer == | |||
| http://www.metopera.org/en/education/educator-materials/educator-guides/rigoletto/Multiple-Perspectives/ | |||
| A user has been edit-warring for deleting this entry: | |||
| for a reference. | |||
| * ], a baritone opera singer who performed in 1984 with ], ], ], and ] in ''Rigoletto''<!--CD RELEASE http://www.iclassics.com/artistDiscography?contentId=2304-->, and is still active<!--LIVE OPERA, NOT CDS--> | |||
| Information from this web page together with material in this article already (such as its use in ], and the piano transcription, but we should be specific about the authorship etc. of this transcription, to the point that possibly even a ''reference needed'' tag is appropriate here) could already be the basis of a ]. ] (]) 21:16, 28 September 2014 (UTC) | |||
| from the disambiguation page ], arguing that he's not notable enough to ever have a Misplaced Pages article, and thus to be listed as a redlink on a dab page. You can provide opinion and information (positive or negative) about it at the discussion page ] so as to help sort it out. | |||
| ] has a non-MOS-compliant link to ] which is a former ] here on English Misplaced Pages but is now moved to Commons. ] (]) 16:33, 30 September 2014 (UTC) | |||
| Thanks, | |||
| Stub created. ] (]) 17:13, 30 September 2014 (UTC) | |||
| == Act 1 scene 2 is not Rigoletto's house == | |||
| == Roles box: "dash" looks like "smiley face"? == | |||
| It is a very frequent error in many synopses to say that Act 1 scene 2 is Rigoletto's house. The libretto does not say that. It is the house where he is lodging Gilda with her duenna Giovanna and he visits once a day. He probably lives in servant's quarters in the Duke's palace. This is why the courtiers assume Gilda is Rigoletto's mistress, they know he is keeping her there and pays her visits. The original Hugo play makes it clear that she has just left convent school and her father recently provided the house and companion for her.I have amended the synopsis.] (]) 01:15, 12 September 2018 (UTC) | |||
| These blanks are gradually being filled in by members of the Wiki opera group. | |||
| == Pronunciation == | |||
| : Certainly more spacing is fine if you object to the "smiley face" look, but there seems to be little point in changing over all of the "Roles" boxes for every opera to "not known". | |||
| Apparently ] believes to be entitled to delete sourced pronunciations, both English and native... Other works of art have pronunciations, e.g. '']'', '']''... and they are protected pages! --] (]) 11:54, 8 March 2020 (UTC) | |||
| :: I support ]'s revert. ] (]) 17:47, 4 March 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == "Orgy" is inaccurate == | |||
| At some point in the editing of the synopsis, the opening scene of the opera (a ball in the Duke's palace) became an "orgy". A few modern productions, e.g. at London's ] in 2001, have depicted it this way., . However, this is not what is described in the actual libretto: | |||
| :: ''"Sala magnifica nel palazzo ducale, con porte nel fondo che mettono ad altre sale, pure splendidamente illuminate. Folla di Cavalieri e Dame che passeggiano nelle sale del fondo - Paggi che vanno e vengono - Nelle sale in fondo si vedrà ballare. Da una delle sale vengono parlando fra loro il Duca e Borsa."'' | |||
| :: English translation:''"A magnificent room in the ducal palace, with doors at the back which give onto other rooms, also splendidly illuminated. A crowd of lords and ladies stroll about in the rear rooms - ] come and go - in the rooms at the back people can be seen dancing. The Duke and Borsa come out of one of the rooms conversing with each other."'' | |||
| When writing synopses, media descriptions of specific productions and/or second-hand synopses should always be checked against the original libretto. In the interests of accuracy, I am changing "orgy" to "ball". ] (]) 07:14, 25 April 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :Sounds as if whoever put "orgy" in there didn't understand what "ball" meant here! --] (]) 20:20, 16 February 2013 (UTC) | |||
| == Painting of the composer == | |||
| This appears twice and I wonder why. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 17:08, 13 September 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| : Because whoever created ] didn't check to see if the picture chosen duplicated the one already in the article. Eek! That was me! However, I've now substituted a photo for the article's painting. Maybe I should go through all the articles on Verdi's operas to see if this happened anywhere else. --<font color="forestgreen">]</font><font color="blue">]</font> 17:28, 13 September 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == E il sol dell'anima == | |||
| Where is this song in the synopsis? ] (]) 20:06, 11 December 2010 (UTC) | |||
| :Act 1, scene 2, when the Duke reassures Gilda that he loves her. I've added it to the synopsis, together with the "Addio, addio" ending to the duet. --<font color="forestgreen">]</font><font color="blue">]</font> 01:01, 12 December 2010 (UTC) | |||
| == Banda == | |||
| (Also posted on ]) | |||
| ] includes "banda", with a redlink to ]. I've just been looking for what is meant. "Banda" is Italian for | |||
| :Band (in all senses); banner; company, crew. '''— civica''', municipal band. | |||
| :(''Cassell's Italian Dictionary'', 1967) | |||
| I have started a draft article, ], which so far is barely even a stub but does have one offhand reference. I would appreciate any elaboration, especially by someone who knows the territory. | |||
| I have been looking for a more exact forum to post this in but without any success. ] looked promising but is minimal. | |||
| ] (]) 20:30, 16 February 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :Banda is Italian for band, but it has a special and well documented role in opera, not only Verdi, althugh he used them a lot, but also Rossini and other composers of the era. I've expanded your draft at ] and added further sources. There is definitely enough now to move it into main space where it can be further expanded. Let me know if you'd like me to do that. ] (]) 15:08, 17 February 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *Now moved to article space at ]. ] (]) 18:48, 18 February 2013 (UTC) | |||
| == Restoration of composer navbox == | |||
| ''Per ] on ]'', I propose that ] be removed and replaced with ]. The long-serving navbox is more useful and non-obtrusive, while this new Infobox opera is distracting and adds no information that is not already and better presented in the lead. --'']]'' 02:56, 7 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::'''Agree'''. ] (]) 03:40, 7 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::To not repeat the same arguments (opera navbox is redundant, infobox is meant to repeat key facts), please let's argue at ], --] (]) 11:53, 7 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::::No, if you are going to go from article to article doing this kind of thing, each instance needs to be noted. By the way what other articles now have these boxes? --'']]'' 01:30, 8 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Please see Don Carlos for update, As you probably know, links to a template can easily be found using the function "What links here". --] (]) 07:25, 8 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Agree''' – The navbox should be restored and the Infobox removed. --] (]) 08:46, 8 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :* Please tell me what is wrong with this infobox, while a general discussion is going on on the project level, quote (not by me) "My personal opinion is that where a footer navbox is available, replacing the header one with the infobox is perfectly acceptable. It is also perfectly acceptable not to do so." --] (]) 12:54, 8 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::We've spent the best part of the last three months explaining what we think is the problem with your infoboxes. If you want some references try the last AN/I started by Andy Mabbett ''']'''. '']]'' 14:39, 8 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Not the question. I would like to know what you think is wrong with this particular infobox, agreeing that we spent too much time on AN/I. Rigoletto is is not a composer. --] (]) 14:46, 8 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::::What's wrong with it? 1. It isn't as useful as the navbox. 2. It doesn't summarise the article (as any worthwhile infobox should). 3. It doesn't help the opera newcomer understand what ''Rigoletto'' is. Want any more? I can probably add another three or four. Or are we just playing games to put off the inevitable reversion? Meanwhile, of course, none of us are contributing to the encyclopaedia. --'']]'' 14:57, 8 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::1) The side navbox (see ]) is not useful at all because all of it re-appears in the bottom navbox. I have been lectured that duplication doesn't serve our readers. Any infobox is more useful than that. | |||
| :::::::2) I am sure that you see the word "summarise" too literally. The first objective is to give the reader an idea about a time and location of the article topic, in this case time and theatre/city of the premiere. The infobox also summarises the main people associated with it, composer, librettist, and author of the play that serves as a base. It could go further, but the design objective was to keep it simple. | |||
| :::::::3) Would the navbox help the opera newcomer what ''Rigoletto'' is? - The infobox has a link to the list to works by Verdi, that has a link to "opera", - whoever doesn't know a thing, can click deeper. | |||
| :::::::The infobox serves the reader better than the redundant navbox. --] (]) 17:24, 8 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Many articles in many other wikiprojects have an infobox and a navbox; they serve different purposes. The infobox provides summary information for the article in question, the navbox helps find related articles within the project. Both fruit, but definitely apples and oranges. And Kleinzach, comments like the above, using the "royal we" to describe your own views in oppisition to those of Gerda, are rather close to a personal attack, given that there are clearly two sides on this issue and more than one party on each. ]<sup>]</sup> 16:55, 8 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::I don't think I've ever seen a nav box at the top of an article before. They've been at the bottom. That's where this one should be. As for infoboxes I agree with Gerda. As for all this protracted bickering over Infoboxes, which most users seem to enjoy viewing, I really don't see what the problem is with using them. And when you meet St Peter at the Pearly Gates, is bickering over infoboxes what you want to say you accomplished with your life? ] ] 20:35, 8 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::::Absolutely right. People used to write articles. (If you want to see my record, have a look at my userpage.) Now we have people coming here with an agenda to disrupt that work by putting inappropriate boxes on all the articles. '']]'' 23:58, 8 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::::::"inappropriate boxes" how are infoboxes inappropriate? They are well accepted by the community. And "disrupt that work" shows the root of the problem....you think you OWN this article. ] ] 01:17, 9 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::::::]: Please do me the courtesy of ''reading'' what I write. I did not say that infoboxes are inappropriate. I have used a great many of them. However there are bad ones — as others have noted. Also re. OWN, I'm not the principal contributor here. I am one of many people who have contributed. Please be more circumspect in your comments. --'']]'' 03:47, 9 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::PumpkinSky, what do you mean, "... the bottom. That's where this one should be ..."? There IS one at the bottom. The one on top to be "restored" is redundant. --] (]) 20:45, 8 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::::Not when I looked at it there wasn't. It was at the top.] ] 20:48, 8 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::::Rigoletto currently: infobox at the top, navbox at the bottom, the version that I support. "Restoring" means returning to a former version similar to ]: navbox at the top (operas and works) AND at the bottom (general including operas and works), redundant. (Needless to say: Falstaff was already , as many others that I didn't count.) --] (]) 21:09, 8 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| {{od}}OK, let's keep this simple: Side navboxes are silly and are easily confused with infoboxes, which are generally helpful to the article and placed at the beginning of an article. Navboxes at the bottom are generally useful and to avoid confusion should not be placed on the side... Kleinzach, whatever else is going on here, the real point is only that. Further, please remember to AGF; no one has a "disruptive agenda" here, unless disagreeing with you is somehow inherently "disruptive." Which I doubt, use of the "royal we" notwithstanding. ]<sup>]</sup> 19:16, 9 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :The top right opera article navbox was designed many years ago and has enjoyed a strong consensus from the opera editors. The purpose of the box was to make it easier to move from one opera article to another, and also tell the reader about similar articles of which he/she may not have been aware. The lower page navbox was designed for main article biographies etc. (The content of the lower page box is sometimes a bit wider to reflect this different usage.) (I'm ignoring the personal comments here — life is too short — pity they are so prevalent.) '']]'' 01:05, 10 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::There's a strong consensus that nav boxes should be in the bottom, and infoxes in the top right. You're the only one I see supporting your viewpoint here. ] ] 13:41, 10 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::Have a look slightly higher up this page. Also note there are lots of top right navboxes, e.g. ], ] and ]. If you work through the categories you'll find lots of them. Ergo there is no consensus on positioning. --'']]'' 07:35, 11 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I do support having a (small & accurate) infobox on any article, but I do also agree that {{tl|Sidebar}} is a widely used template/system ("44673 transclusion(s) found.") and I do also agree (with the as yet unspoken position) that our 2 overlapping template-navigation systems/locations are confusing! (And are the result of years of parallel development. The sidebar started off from the basis of ], afaik.). FWIW, the ordering guidance if both (infobox and topright-navbox) are used on one page, is at ]. Sorry to confuse matters further! :) –] (]) 18:26, 11 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::Your claimed "strong consensus from the opera editors" is immaterial, when it is counter to the string consensus for an alternative option shown by the wider community. I won't bother to explain why, as you've been told this many times over the years, and appear to be wilfully ignoring it. Again. Your various assertions ("designed for main article biographies", et al) appear to be inventions. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); ]; ]</span> 18:11, 10 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| The article should have one navbox, at the bottom. People are more likely to read an article to the bottom, then want to go to a related one, than to want to go to the related article while they're still at the top of the first. The infobox proper should be kept, to both provide a handy summary of key points from the article, and make them machine-readable. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); ]; ]</span> 18:16, 10 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| I '''agree''' with ], ], and ] that the old template should be restored. ] seems clunky and it is far easier and more comfortable to read in the first two sentences of the lede the information which it duplicates. No clamour of complaint was ever present about the old template - if it ain't broken, why fix it? - otherwise one might assume that there is merely some attempt at being ]y here.--] (]) 16:22, 12 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :Do you agree with me that all links in the sidebox are repeated in the bottom navbox, whereas a date in template form appears only in the infobox, and only the structured information in the infobox is useful for Wikidata. Did you read the related ]? --] (]) 16:36, 12 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :: 1) I think the infobox is intrusive and completely useless; and I am not aware of any evidence base to indicate that it has any use. 2) I think the metadata ''sogennante'' 'argument' is a complete scam, as even if metadata are supposed to be essential (and I am not going to debate that here) , there is no reason why they should be embedded in visible features.--] (]) 20:34, 14 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::I have just replied to your near-identical first point, at ]. The metadata argument is not a scam, and metadata is not "embedded" in visible features; visible features are invisibly (to humans) marked up so as to be machine-readable as metadata. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); ]; ]</span> 21:26, 14 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::: See my more recent comment at ] for my refutation of this. --] (]) 05:08, 15 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| {{od}}Side comment here. The standard infobox is a useful tool for wikipedia users who are taking a casual glance at an article, in addition to the metadata issues. Design issues are a different debate, but not one sufficient to throw the baby out with the bathwater here. I am personally of the view that most articles past stub class benefit from one. The classical music projects are among the most reactionary on this topic; the sciences and most biographical articles have been using them - effectively - for years. ]<sup>]</sup> 15:34, 15 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::::It is you are rather reactionary, in the sense of out of date - the attitudes I am expressing seem to be in line with the latest thinking - See for example ] and comments - wake up and smell the coffee!--] (]) 16:03, 15 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 14:33, 10 January 2024
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How many acts?
Some versions of this opera, such as for instance the Schirmer piano-vocal score, have it in FOUR acts, the First Act ending with Monterone's curse and the Second Act beginning with Rigoletto's initial encounter with Sparafucile and ending when the courtiers abduct Gilda. Should the article mention this? I report, you decide. HandsomeMrToad (talk) 23:05, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
Bella figlia dell’amore
I think that the act 3 quartet Bella figlia dell’amore deserves an article of its own, see
for a reference.
Information from this web page together with material in this article already (such as its use in Quartet (2012 film), and the piano transcription, but we should be specific about the authorship etc. of this transcription, to the point that possibly even a reference needed tag is appropriate here) could already be the basis of a good stub. Andrewa (talk) 21:16, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
Quartet (2012 film) has a non-MOS-compliant link to File:Enrico Caruso, Bessie Abott, Louise Homer, Antonio Scotti, Giuseppe Verdi, Bella figlia dell' amore (Rigoletto).ogg which is a former featured sound here on English Misplaced Pages but is now moved to Commons. Andrewa (talk) 16:33, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
Stub created. Andrewa (talk) 17:13, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
Act 1 scene 2 is not Rigoletto's house
It is a very frequent error in many synopses to say that Act 1 scene 2 is Rigoletto's house. The libretto does not say that. It is the house where he is lodging Gilda with her duenna Giovanna and he visits once a day. He probably lives in servant's quarters in the Duke's palace. This is why the courtiers assume Gilda is Rigoletto's mistress, they know he is keeping her there and pays her visits. The original Hugo play makes it clear that she has just left convent school and her father recently provided the house and companion for her.I have amended the synopsis.Smeat75 (talk) 01:15, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
Pronunciation
Apparently Michael Bednarek believes to be entitled to delete sourced pronunciations, both English and native... Other works of art have pronunciations, e.g. Les Misérables, Mona Lisa... and they are protected pages! --92.184.96.116 (talk) 11:54, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
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