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__TOC__ __TOC__


== russian intervention == == Unexplained removals ==

i wrote up a section on the pristina airport incident, i used a BBC article to source the data

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/671495.stm

but didn't include it in the references as i'm a lousy editor, feel free to include that

gosh i'm not trying to start a fight here, i just thought i should add that part.

== Main picture controversial ==

In infobox, you use a picture of a memorial to fallen Albanian guerilla terrorist fighters? This article is very visiual for its "one sided - role" instead of neutrality. Why dont you also put a picture of a memorial to fallen Chechens on Chechnia war article, and pictures of a memorial to fallen Tallibani forces in Afghanistan war? I propose to you that you remove that picture immediately...

::Agree. //erik.bramsen.copenhagen <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 18:50, 10 December 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== This page is one sided (MADE BY PRO-KLA EDITORS) ==

alot of sources that have gone through age 20 years ago are being used, then alot of sources are pointed out only from the sources of one terrorist organization -KLA, while anything on other side is ignored. This page is obviously trying to show Albanians as poor and terrorized people during that war, while the attacks on serbian civilians and heritage and on serbian government institutions even before the war became is putten in shadow; trying to show KLA as "liberty fighters". This is why i dont care at all what this article says, because its just NOT RELIABLE, just wanna let anyone who comes up here to know and to read this. The article is a whole piece of nothing. Goodbye

:The neutrality of this article is fine. I'm removing the 'disputed neutrality' banner on the article. If there are actual concerns about the neutrality, you can put the banner back. ] (]) 15:42, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

== "only several thousand victims" ==

What a disgusting statement. ] (]) 20:06, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
:Indeed. Resolved.--] (]) 20:23, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

::Great, now it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. But hey, as long as you two aren't offended, fuck encyclopedia's, right? ] (]) 21:25, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

::Changed the offending paragraph to read:

::Despite initial western claims that hundreds of thousands of Kosovo Albanians were killed subsequent investigations have recovered the remains of less than three thousand victims,

::In future, if you are offended by something on wikipedia, wait for some form of consensus before ripping the offensive content out and leaving a totally grammatically nonsensical passage in it's stead. What you did was compromise the entire purpose of a sixth of the lede because of butthurt. That's patently ridiculous behaviour; a little re-wording would have yielded a far superior result. There is no point in me citing the whole not censored, yadda yadda, braces hugged all capital letter doctrines of Misplaced Pages to vouch that arbitrarily removing things leaving everything broken is douchebaggery of the highest order, just please think before doing stuff like that in future. ] (]) 21:30, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

== typo / grammar mistake ==

should be "who" not "whom" in the sentence "an increased presence of Serb paramilitaries and regular forces whom subsequently began pursuing a campaign of retribution" of the opening section. {{unsigned|88.96.105.246}}
:Fixed. Thanks for pointing it out! ] (]) 18:52, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

== Islam; the super-silent partner? ==

How is there only one instance of the word Islam in this entire document and it's in the title of one single source right down the bottom? I mean, I may be tripping balls here, but I'm pretty sure that the tens of thousands of mujahadeen soldiers running around beheading people and gutting babies from pregnant women and shit calling themselves freedom fighters weren't all coincidentally bearded men who tripped over and fell in orchestrated fashion at seven specific times per day. I may be wrong, but I'm smelling Conspiracy Pete aboves paranoia; this definitely does read like a propaganda piece.

I've noticed in a lot of instances Misplaced Pages's articles on any war or conflict issues in the past thirty years are skewed, and tend to lead to edit wars and dramu if questioned, so if my comment will cause such drama forget I mentioned it; but if it doesn't and we're actually reading the same handbook and obeying the same concept of neutrality then this article needs a whole lot of modification going on! ] (]) 21:35, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

== WARNING : There is a lot of Serbian propaganda and false information in this page ==


@] the question whether a genocide has happened is irrelevant to the lead, as its not being discussed there. It’s clear that a certain POV is trying to be portrayed with that sentence. And btw, being sourced doesn’t warrant the inclusion into the article nor the lead. You did not make any argument to why the content should remain in the lead.
There were many human rights abuses of Albanians leading up to the war. The Albanian's initially used peaceful means of protest. However, as their rights were arbitarily taken away one by one it became clear that they would have to defend their families by other means. The atrocities committed against pregnant women, children and the elderly by the Serbs are shocking and brutal. In some villages all the men and boys were simply rounded up and shot in front of their families. Serbian nationalism is still prevalent today and many millitant Serbs use the internet and other media outlets to promote their propoganda. Please use discretion when reading any account of the war in Kosovo especially if it does not come from an independant source. This kind of misrepresentation of the truth only fuels conflict and prevents healing. <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 16:39, 14 November 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


„Vague and sourced content“ what exactly is vague about the expulsion? You easily could have looked up the article that is linked in this sentence, there you will find every source you need, but okay, if you insist on sources, I’ll add them later if I have time despite the case of WP:BLUESKY we have here. You know what would be vague? Including Albanian and Serbian estimates. But I did not do that. ] (]) 17:37, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
== Very POV ==
<s>"Morale


:The lede is supposed to summarise the most important contents of the article, and whether the violence was judged to constitute genocide seems like an important point. ] (]) 20:17, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
Morale was a serious problem for Serb forces; intelligence surveys found that many soldiers disagreed with their comrades' actions. One tank commander reported:
:You said that {{tq|It’s clear that a certain POV is trying to be portrayed with that sentence.}} For me it actually is not that clear - what POV is being portrayed by including the information that it was not ruled to be a genocide by the UN Supreme Court? That seems like a crucial, lede-worthy piece of information. ] 21:09, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
::I'll agree that the this high-court ruling may be relevant, but I'll take out the quotes at {{tq| found that there had been '''"'''a systematic campaign of terror, including murders, rapes, arsons and severe maltreatments'''"''' against the Albanian population, but that Yugoslav troops had tried to force them out of Kosovo, but not to eradicate them, and therefore it was not genocide.}} To me, this looks like an attempts to make the "systematic campaign of terror, including murders, rapes, arsons and severe maltreatments" look like an opinion. ] (]) 22:04, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
:::I also sourced the "vague" content and readded it. ] (]) 22:13, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
:'''Comment:''' I wish to contribute to this discussion by shining some light on other aspects in the background section:
:1. The very first line - {{tquote|The modern Albanian-Serbian conflict has its roots in the expulsion of Albanians in 1877-1878...}} - is somewhat questionable. Albanians and Serbs (as a distinct population group) have been fighting since the Middle Ages, whereas the Balkan Slavs in general (whom the Serbs descend from) invaded territories inhabited by the ancestral populations of the Albanians all the way back in the 6th-7th centuries CE. The conflict between Albanians and Serbs goes back to over a millennia, not a century and a half ago. However, I notice the word "modern" there. Perhaps something else is meant by this line, but this should be clearly and explicitly stated.
:2. I removed an unsourced line for the same reason used by editors above; it's simply too vague. In fact, one of the articles I removed - ] - barely has any information on specific attacks and does not include any figures whatsoever. Contrast that to the ], where attacks are quite clearly recorded and figures exist on the matter. The only line mentioning somewhat specific attacks on that article is the following: {{tquote|Tensions in the form of revenge attacks arose by incoming Albanian refugees on local Kosovo Serbs...}} If the article in question cannot be expanded upon soon, I genuinely question whether or not it should even exist. All of its content fits into the ] article, or even the ] article. It does not seem to warrant an article of its own, and I may propose it for deletion if it's not expanded upon soon. Nonetheless, that's a discussion that is more fitting on the TP of the article in question.
:3. The other linked article that I removed - ] - is also quite lacklustre in terms of content and sources, and also makes no mention of any figures whatsoever. Nonetheless, it does say that Serbs were massacred, and although we have no info on the article discussing who or how many Serbs were killed, I'd assume it'd be good enough to stay, although it should also be expanded upon. It can also be mentioned in this article, but in a more accurate way than it was previously; did the Muhaxhirs seriously wait nearly 15 years or so to exact revenge on the Serbs in Kosovo? This article should perhaps be mentioned more explicitly, as the previous mention was quite vague. ] (]) 01:06, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
::Concerning Botushali's first argument, I think what is meant here by "modern" is the beginning of the Kosovo problem. I mean - if we're being honest - Serbia shot itself in the foot with every action that they've taken against the local Albanian population. Kosovo, which already had had an Albanian-dominated population, kept getting more and more Albanian after the Albanians of Nish and Toplica were expelled. On top of that, the local Serbian population of Kosovo fled, creating a vacuum that Albanians naturally and quickly began to fill. Several attempts have been made afterwards to restore a supposed "status quo" by ]. I think that's what scholars mean with roots of the modern Albanian-Serbian conflict.
::With that being said, it is, however, evident that the Albanian-Serbian conflict is much more than that. ] (]) 21:31, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
:::As it was argued, I've also noticed the lack of reliable and precise recordings of the massacres on Serbs, whereas testimonies of Serbian massacres of Albanians are precise and detailed. ] (]) 21:37, 10 April 2024 (UTC)


== Statements with outright ridiculous sources ==
For the entire time I was in Kosovo, I never saw an enemy soldier and my unit was never once involved in firing at enemy targets. The tanks which cost $2.5 million each were used to slaughter Albanian children... I am ashamed."


The statement "...thousands killed and between 70,000 and 100,000 expelled from Kosovo or sent to concentration camps in order to Albanianize the province..." references a book, which does mention those numbers, HOWEVER said book itself calls these numbers literally, and I quote, "pure fantasy".
This entry is very POV, it is not cyclopedic, and it explains the morale solely on one witness, there were many who did not complain, on the contrary. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 09:20, 19 November 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--></s><small>Striking out sockpuppets. ] (]) 00:10, 2 December 2013 (UTC)</s>
:I agree.--] (]) 19:39, 19 November 2013 (UTC)


This is a clear case of someone taking something out of context in order to try and make fantasy (it is a fantasy, according to their own source) into reality.
Not to mention that it doesn't merit an entire section and that a page number isn't provided to the source it's cited with. ] (]) 21:08, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
::What does "very POV" mean? I recognise, of course, that it's not compatible with ''your'' POV. It is, however, based on a reliable source. If you're concerned about undue weight then I will happily develop more content based on this and other sources. It would be a shame to have such a lengthy article on a war without mentioning morale. By the way, 109.106.229.116, you should log in when you edit. We have enough nationalist sockpuppets already.] (]) 00:04, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
:::* "NATO officials ....the apparently strong morale among Serbian troops.... the Serbian force of nearly 47,000 men seemed less demoralized than allied accounts had led people to expect. " .
:::* {{cite book|author1=Bruce Nardulli|author2=Walter L. Perry|author3=Bruce R. Pirnie|coauthors=John IV Gordon, John G. McGinn|title=Disjointed War: Military Operations in Kosovo, 1999|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=M3n1hNI4XoAC&pg=PA54|date=5 June 2002|publisher=Rand Corporation|isbn=978-0-8330-3231-7|page=54|quote=Yugoslav units appeared combat effective with high morale}}
:::* --] (]) 08:05, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
::::All of which are specific to the retreat after allied intervention; it is a longstanding tradition on en.wikipedia for Serb nationalists to pretend that the Kosovo war was all about Allied Force, and gloss over trivial detail like ethnic cleansing, widespread brutality &c. Nonetheless, I'm sure we can expand the section. ] (]) 19:58, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
<s>Dear Bab, if you cannot see the POV you keep protecting, I am truly sorry for you, maybe you should let other objective people edit this article, you are too emotionaly involved.
All the best...... <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 08:57, 20 November 2013 (UTC)<!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--></span></s><small>Striking out sockpuppets. ] (]) 00:10, 2 December 2013 (UTC)</s>


By the way, that was the first link I checked. I have no doubt there are countless more here. If Misplaced Pages wants to be a pillar of truth, there should be more work being done in checking these claims and not just approving them because they seem legit at first sight. ] (]) 09:21, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
::::Serbs have a strong link with Kosovo, so it´s absolute nonsense that morale was even a slight problem for Serb forces... Some people just cannot keep a line of logic here. When necessary, they want to present Serbs as barbarian killing machines of woman and children, but now suddently Serbian forces morale was low? Imagine then if it was high? They would be truth Super Mans then... Anti-Serb editors should really get some better strategy, cause this just looks like they are simply collecting all negative ever written about Serbs, whatever it is, even if contradictory with (their own) story line. ] (]) 05:54, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
:The Malcolm book describes Serbian nationalists' claims about the number of Albanians moving to Kosovo in the 1940s were "pure fantasy". It doesn't describe estimates of the number of Serbs expelled as such. ] (]) 16:16, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
::::BTW, these "hot" articles should be speacially dealt with extreme care, because our point here should be to make them as neutral as possible for en.wikipedia credibility. Inserting propaganda, as clearly that account on how Serb forces had low morale is, will simply move readers away from the article and make en.wiki loose credibility. Antidiskriminator already found 3 sources claiming the opposite, so the alleged words of one alleged commander don´t really have a place here. ] (]) 06:05, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
::Also Sabrina Ramet mentions these estimates without any qualifications or caveats in ''The Three Yugoslavias''. ]<sub>]</sub> 18:17, 15 June 2024 (UTC)


== KLAs own casualtie claims ==
Bob, please provide a page for edit of yours. Also, seems higly pushy to make a one sentence section. ] (]) 16:45, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
:The page number is not so important. I presented scholarly sources which refute the low morale assertion. Slaughtering of Albanian children with tanks belong to another section which deals with massacres.--] (]) 18:28, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
::Oh, I'm not to bothered about FkpCascais. 23 editor complains about the lack of a pagenumber, so Fkpcomplains about the lack of a pagenumber. Zavtek complains about me removing unsourced listcruft , so Fkpcascais about me removing it too. There aren't any new insights here.
::More concerning is that Zavtek the content as "badly sourced", even though it's from a reliable source, published by a university press. For content that Zavtek wants to add, the standards of sourcing are - no source is required at all. Isn't that tendentious editing? It seems that some editors just make up any old reason to justify changing content to fit one nationalist perspective. It doesn't matter what the reason is; quite often it's outright false, all that matters is pushing articles in one direction. ] (]) 12:40, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::::<s>It's not the source, it's your deliberate misrepresentation of the source. Naturally if the source mentions "Serb soldiers" then its reliability will not so much come into question as be thrown in the bin since it would contain false information. ] (]) 18:30, 23 November 2013 (UTC)</s><small>Striking out sockpuppets. ] (]) 00:10, 2 December 2013 (UTC)</s>
::::::::Such nationalist rants need not be taken sriously. It's a reliable source on Serb history which explicitly discusses Serb forces. If your personal politics are incompatible with that you have my sympathies, but sooner or later these articles will reflect what reliable sources say. ] (]) 15:22, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
::::::::::::<s>"Nationalist rants"? Not sure what you're actually reading but perhaps you can quote the statement that allegedly equates to some 'nationalist rant' and then reveal which is the (un)lucky nation to have this follower rooting for their causes. Meanwhile if we get back to the issue, you used the term 'Serb forces' (ie. police & irregulars) and then started discussing 'soldiers' who in turn formed a part of the national military (VJ). No reliable soure could produce such a blunder, unless of course it isn't reliable. Equation solved. --] (]) 15:45, 24 November 2013 (UTC)</s><small>Striking out sockpuppets. ] (]) 00:10, 2 December 2013 (UTC)</s>


Daalder & O'Hanlon 2000 is used to claim that the KLAs casualties were 1,500 dead, according to their figures. This is what the source says; {{tq|"KLA commander Agim Ceku estimated that perhaps 1,500 KLA fighters were among the dead (his tally numbers included cumulative losses over fifteen months, however)"}}. I propose removing this 1,500 number because it seems to be a pretty early estimate by one commander rather than an official listing. ] (]) 21:55, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
:::] is irrelevant here. You were explained that it is wrong to give undue weight to what one no name alleged commander said. You were also explained that what you added to the article contradicts to other sources which explain that during the withrawal of Yugoslav forces it became obvious that they had strong morale which contradicted what allied accounts had led people to expect. Please be so kind to stop with personal attacks and flag waving fallacious comments on this talk page by which you attempt to attribute nationalism to other editors. You were already warned more than once because of your disruptions at Kosovo related articles. I politely ask you to please take a better care in future or you might be warned again. Thank you. --] (]) 13:13, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
:::I tend to agree (see ] and ]). On a related point, the infobox casualty figures for the Yugoslavian side are also inexplicable. It says that NATO killed 1,008–1,200 Yugoslav security personnel and 1,084 were killed by the KLA, which implies there were 2,000+ military fatalities on the Yugoslavian side. This is not only a clear example of ] and ], but also a blatant misrepresentation of the HLC study cited, attributing the Yugoslavian side's ''total'' 1,084 military deaths from Jan 1, 1998 to Dec 31, 2000 (including 276 incurred by NATO) solely to the KLA. I mean, the citation is right there, and it's even in English. So, I'm at a loss as to why such misleading claims have been up for so long. ] (]) 17:32, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
::::For me it doesn´t really matter who makes one edit, it is allways the content that matters to me. As you could see Bob, I may agree with others on some edits, and agree with you on others. So I support edits, not editors. Now regarding the edit, that edit is sourced by Judah´s book with no page mentioned to confirm it and it doesn´t certanly deserve a separate section by itself. Also, even if written by Judah in his book from 1997, that edit screams propaganda (written before NATO intervention, some alleged commenader allegedly said... hmmm). Maybe Judah was introduced to someone who claimed to be YA commander and said that so he naively transponded that into his book, but anyway, are there more sources to confirm that? Such a hot issue as it is Kosovo War with so much writen about it and so much to write certainly can´t have one entire section reliying on one sentence from one source. Plus, making no much sense to anyone well familiarised with the issue, and with sources claiming otherwise. ] (]) 14:13, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
::::: The assertion about Yugoslav army using tanks to slaughter Albanian children is exceptional and should be referenced with exceptional sources. --] (]) 14:48, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
::::::Good job we have a reliable source which quotes Serb forces directly, then. However you've removed the content as "misinterpretation". That is false. Did you intentionally use a false edit summary, or did you really believe it? ] (]) 14:44, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::::With your fallacious "false edit" ] you continued with disruption here. That is not the first time you write this kind of comments to me and by doing that you made editing of many articles including this article unpleasant for me and discouraged me from further editing. That is why this will my last comment in this talk page. All the best! --] (]) 15:29, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::::<s>"which quotes Serb forces directly", that's the funniest one I've ever heard! So morale is down across the outfit due to the feelings of a handful of carefully selected unenthusiastic individuals. --] (]) 15:45, 24 November 2013 (UTC)</s><small>Striking out sockpuppets. ] (]) 00:10, 2 December 2013 (UTC)</s>

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Unexplained removals

@Pincrete the question whether a genocide has happened is irrelevant to the lead, as its not being discussed there. It’s clear that a certain POV is trying to be portrayed with that sentence. And btw, being sourced doesn’t warrant the inclusion into the article nor the lead. You did not make any argument to why the content should remain in the lead.

„Vague and sourced content“ what exactly is vague about the expulsion? You easily could have looked up the article that is linked in this sentence, there you will find every source you need, but okay, if you insist on sources, I’ll add them later if I have time despite the case of WP:BLUESKY we have here. You know what would be vague? Including Albanian and Serbian estimates. But I did not do that. AlexBachmann (talk) 17:37, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

The lede is supposed to summarise the most important contents of the article, and whether the violence was judged to constitute genocide seems like an important point. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:17, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
You said that It’s clear that a certain POV is trying to be portrayed with that sentence. For me it actually is not that clear - what POV is being portrayed by including the information that it was not ruled to be a genocide by the UN Supreme Court? That seems like a crucial, lede-worthy piece of information. Brat Forelli🦊 21:09, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
I'll agree that the this high-court ruling may be relevant, but I'll take out the quotes at found that there had been "a systematic campaign of terror, including murders, rapes, arsons and severe maltreatments" against the Albanian population, but that Yugoslav troops had tried to force them out of Kosovo, but not to eradicate them, and therefore it was not genocide. To me, this looks like an attempts to make the "systematic campaign of terror, including murders, rapes, arsons and severe maltreatments" look like an opinion. AlexBachmann (talk) 22:04, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
I also sourced the "vague" content and readded it. AlexBachmann (talk) 22:13, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
Comment: I wish to contribute to this discussion by shining some light on other aspects in the background section:
1. The very first line - The modern Albanian-Serbian conflict has its roots in the expulsion of Albanians in 1877-1878... - is somewhat questionable. Albanians and Serbs (as a distinct population group) have been fighting since the Middle Ages, whereas the Balkan Slavs in general (whom the Serbs descend from) invaded territories inhabited by the ancestral populations of the Albanians all the way back in the 6th-7th centuries CE. The conflict between Albanians and Serbs goes back to over a millennia, not a century and a half ago. However, I notice the word "modern" there. Perhaps something else is meant by this line, but this should be clearly and explicitly stated.
2. I removed an unsourced line for the same reason used by editors above; it's simply too vague. In fact, one of the articles I removed - Attacks on Serbs during the Serbian–Ottoman Wars (1876–1878) - barely has any information on specific attacks and does not include any figures whatsoever. Contrast that to the Massacres of Albanians in the Balkan Wars, where attacks are quite clearly recorded and figures exist on the matter. The only line mentioning somewhat specific attacks on that article is the following: Tensions in the form of revenge attacks arose by incoming Albanian refugees on local Kosovo Serbs... If the article in question cannot be expanded upon soon, I genuinely question whether or not it should even exist. All of its content fits into the Expulsion of the Albanians, 1877–1878 article, or even the Serbian–Ottoman Wars (1876–1878) article. It does not seem to warrant an article of its own, and I may propose it for deletion if it's not expanded upon soon. Nonetheless, that's a discussion that is more fitting on the TP of the article in question.
3. The other linked article that I removed - 1901 massacres of Serbs - is also quite lacklustre in terms of content and sources, and also makes no mention of any figures whatsoever. Nonetheless, it does say that Serbs were massacred, and although we have no info on the article discussing who or how many Serbs were killed, I'd assume it'd be good enough to stay, although it should also be expanded upon. It can also be mentioned in this article, but in a more accurate way than it was previously; did the Muhaxhirs seriously wait nearly 15 years or so to exact revenge on the Serbs in Kosovo? This article should perhaps be mentioned more explicitly, as the previous mention was quite vague. Botushali (talk) 01:06, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
Concerning Botushali's first argument, I think what is meant here by "modern" is the beginning of the Kosovo problem. I mean - if we're being honest - Serbia shot itself in the foot with every action that they've taken against the local Albanian population. Kosovo, which already had had an Albanian-dominated population, kept getting more and more Albanian after the Albanians of Nish and Toplica were expelled. On top of that, the local Serbian population of Kosovo fled, creating a vacuum that Albanians naturally and quickly began to fill. Several attempts have been made afterwards to restore a supposed "status quo" by colonizing Kosovo. I think that's what scholars mean with roots of the modern Albanian-Serbian conflict.
With that being said, it is, however, evident that the Albanian-Serbian conflict is much more than that. AlexBachmann (talk) 21:31, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
As it was argued, I've also noticed the lack of reliable and precise recordings of the massacres on Serbs, whereas testimonies of Serbian massacres of Albanians are precise and detailed. AlexBachmann (talk) 21:37, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Statements with outright ridiculous sources

The statement "...thousands killed and between 70,000 and 100,000 expelled from Kosovo or sent to concentration camps in order to Albanianize the province..." references a book, which does mention those numbers, HOWEVER said book itself calls these numbers literally, and I quote, "pure fantasy".

This is a clear case of someone taking something out of context in order to try and make fantasy (it is a fantasy, according to their own source) into reality.

By the way, that was the first link I checked. I have no doubt there are countless more here. If Misplaced Pages wants to be a pillar of truth, there should be more work being done in checking these claims and not just approving them because they seem legit at first sight. 84.22.48.91 (talk) 09:21, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

The Malcolm book describes Serbian nationalists' claims about the number of Albanians moving to Kosovo in the 1940s were "pure fantasy". It doesn't describe estimates of the number of Serbs expelled as such. Cordless Larry (talk) 16:16, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Also Sabrina Ramet mentions these estimates without any qualifications or caveats in The Three Yugoslavias. Alaexis¿question? 18:17, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

KLAs own casualtie claims

Daalder & O'Hanlon 2000 is used to claim that the KLAs casualties were 1,500 dead, according to their figures. This is what the source says; "KLA commander Agim Ceku estimated that perhaps 1,500 KLA fighters were among the dead (his tally numbers included cumulative losses over fifteen months, however)". I propose removing this 1,500 number because it seems to be a pretty early estimate by one commander rather than an official listing. Durraz0 (talk) 21:55, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

I tend to agree (see WP:AGEMATTERS and Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Military history/Academy/The effect of aging sources). On a related point, the infobox casualty figures for the Yugoslavian side are also inexplicable. It says that NATO killed 1,008–1,200 Yugoslav security personnel and 1,084 were killed by the KLA, which implies there were 2,000+ military fatalities on the Yugoslavian side. This is not only a clear example of WP:OR and WP:SYNTH, but also a blatant misrepresentation of the HLC study cited, attributing the Yugoslavian side's total 1,084 military deaths from Jan 1, 1998 to Dec 31, 2000 (including 276 incurred by NATO) solely to the KLA. I mean, the citation is right there, and it's even in English. So, I'm at a loss as to why such misleading claims have been up for so long. Amanuensis Balkanicus (talk) 17:32, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
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