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Revision as of 14:13, 23 February 2014 editIhardlythinkso (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers75,330 edits →Query: good grief← Previous edit Latest revision as of 19:08, 5 January 2025 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,303,667 editsm Archiving 1 discussion(s) to User talk:Elahrairah/Archive 15) (bot 
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== Happy Holidays! ==
==Happy Adminship Anniversary!==
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| text = <big>'''Happy adminship anniversary!'''</big><br />Hi Elahrairah! On behalf of the ], I'd like to wish you a very happy anniversary of your . Enjoy this special day! ] (]) 00:39, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
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== Administrators' newsletter – December 2024 ==
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] from the past month (November 2024).


]
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] '''Administrator changes'''
<i>Spread the cheer by adding {{tls|Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message.</i>
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{{You've got mail}} Sensitive subject. ] <small>]</small> 16:42, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
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] '''Guideline and policy news'''
==Speedy deletion query==
* Following ], the ] has been updated. All former administrators may now only regain the tools following a request at the ] within 5 years of their most recent admin action. Previously this applied only to administrators deysopped for inactivity.
You deleted a page created earlier title "We're Coming" without giving an explanation why.., <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 07:03, 15 February 2014 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
* Following a ], a new speedy deletion criterion, ], has been enacted. This applies to template subpages that are no longer used.
:Hi there. I deleted the article because it meets one of Misplaced Pages's ]. Specifically, the subject of the article (the song) is not notable, and the artist who wrote it does not have a Misplaced Pages article. It therefore qualifies under criteria A9. Hope this helps. Regards ]&nbsp;]⁄] 09:34, 15 February 2014 (UTC)


] '''Technical news'''
== Medical Doctor ==
* Technical volunteers can now register for the ], which will take place in Istanbul, Turkey. is open from November 12 to December 10, 2024.


] '''Arbitration'''
Might want to see where ] is redirected to. Just saying. I agree that they're not synonymous, but the United States has spots for intended for M.D.s (Doctor of Medicine), but these spots may also be obtained by physicians with an international equivalent degree such as the Bachelor of Medicine/Bachelor of Surgery degrees (MBBS/MBChB). The term medical doctor is frequently misused as only for M.D.s and is used in contrast to MBBS, MBChB, or DO, but medical doctor is nothing more than a broad term for physician. ] (]) 22:44, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
* The arbitration case '']'' (formerly titled '']'') has been closed.
:Sorry, that was shoddy. I agree (I think) - I was hoping to link to a page on physicians in general rather than restricting the sentence to MDs only. ]&nbsp;]⁄] 22:53, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
* An arbitration case titled '']'' has been opened. Evidence submissions in this case will close on 14 December.
::Trying a rewrite. Let me know what you think. We can figure out a compromise if my revision to make the sentence clearer is unclear or inadvertently changes the meaning. ] (]) 23:03, 16 February 2014 (UTC)


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== Query ==
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== Administrative permissions and inactivity reminder ==
Basalisk, I'm curious to pick your brain ... According to your view, which of these are personal attacks and violate NPA?:


]This is a reminder that established ] provides for removal of the administrative permissions of users who have made fewer than 100 edits over a 60-month period. You are receiving this annual reminder since you have averaged less than 50 edits per year over the last 5 years.{{pb}}Inactive administrators are encouraged to reengage with the project in earnest rather than to make token edits to avoid loss of administrative permissions. Resources and support for reengaging with the project are available at ]. If you do not intend to be engaged with the project in the foreseeable future, please consider voluntarily resigning your administrative permissions by making a request at the ].{{pb}}Thank you for your past contributions to the project. —&thinsp;] 00:23, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
# "You're a liar."
# "I request you be productive and truthful here or elsewise go elsewhere."
# "You're a fucking idiot."
# "Stop being a fucking idiot."
# "Stop behaving like a fucking idiot."


== Administrators' newsletter – January 2025 ==
(Thanks.) ] (]) 21:27, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
:1, 3, 4 and 5. ]&nbsp;]⁄] 23:38, 22 February 2014 (UTC)


] from the past month (December 2024).
Well that's very interesting (because, I know there are other admins who would disagree with you and 4 and 5 on the basis "those are descriptions of behavior". And if I requested that *you* be truthful or stop posting to my attention, duh, you might feel different about it. (What if I appended to each & every exchange I would ever have with you?: "Basalisk, I'm requesting that you be truthful or else go elsewhere." -- how would you like that?) Here are a couple more:


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# "Your Talk page is filled with lies."
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# "Your comments were filled with grave dancing ."


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:Nothing that you just said is actually true. Just because there are editors (myself included) who entertain a distinction between statements that are a description of behaviour and statements which are attacks on character does not mean that you "know admins" who think that those specific statements (4 and 5) are not personal attacks. I consider them violations of NPA because they are written solely to insult, they don't describe actions at all. "Your talk page is filled with lies" is obviously not a personal attack. "Your comments were filled with grave dancing"="you were grave dancing" which is a description of behaviour and so obviously not a personal attack (whatever else it may be). As for how I'd feel if you were to say those things to me, we've had this discussion before, and my response hasn't changed - I literally couldn't care less what people on Misplaced Pages say about me. If you give a toss what people on the Internet think of you then you need to grow thicker skin. The people in the real world don't give a shit about your feelings. ]&nbsp;]⁄] 00:09, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
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::Nothing I just said is actually true? Huh? I've seen several discussions where editors (I think admins too) have asserted a PA exists only when the insult under consideration is on the editor not behavior of the editor.
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::*How can you say a statement like "Stop being/behaving like an idiot" is "not describing actions"? (The presupposition obviously is that some exchange preceded the remark, and the commenting editor was refering to comments by the other editor.)
]
::*And how is "Your Talk page is filled with lies" "obviously" not a personal attack?! (Doesn't it imply without a doubt the Talk page owner has been lying on it?)
::*And claiming someone is gravedancing (on a RL suicide victim) is "obviously" not a personal attack? (Corbett said if that wasn't a personal attack then nothing is. Do you think he was so very wrong about it?!)
::*Last, if you are saying (are you?) that WP editors s/n give any care to what other editors say about them, and you think they should grow thicker skin, then whatever in the world are CIV and NPA about (why do they exist)?!
::] (]) 00:22, 23 February 2014 (UTC)


] '''Oversight changes'''
:::You may have had discussions, but I doubt there have been any times when someone has specifically made the statement you've quoted in either 4 or 5 above and an admin has specifically said it is not a personal attack. That has never happened, and so you're merely speculating on what some hypothetical people may say if that were to happen. So, like I said, your assertion is not true, because you cannot demonstrate that it is. In terms of talk page lies, even if the statement that you quoted did directly imply that the "owner" of the talk page had been doing the lying (which it doesn't) there's still nothing wrong with accusing an editor of lying. That is not a personal attack. I don't care what EC thinks of personal attacks. I have a great respect for his ability as a writer but frankly his opinions on what constitutes appropriate communication with the people around him are worthless. Finally, I think if some Misplaced Pages editors got out of their parents houses every now and then, faced the real world and learned to act like adults then we wouldn't have so many people losing their shit about being called a liar or a gravedancer or stupid or whatever, and then we wouldn't have to argue about the utility of NPA or CIV either. This is all I have to say on the matter. This has basically stemmed from me asking you not to make personal attacks. I did so because I don't want you to feel, if you were to carry on making personal attacks and get into trouble for it, that no one had tried to warn you. I've done that and I have nothing else to say. Good to chat. ]&nbsp;]⁄] 00:39, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
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::::That's a bit confusing ... you classified "You're a liar" as a PA, and also saying {{tq|there's still nothing wrong with accusing an editor of lying. That is not a personal attack.}}!? (Can you explain how those are significantly different?)
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::::Here are a couple more (PA or not?):
::::# "Show some common decency."
::::# "Good luck integrating with humanity someday."
::::] (]) 00:57, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

::::The query examples were mostly paraphrases of real examples I've seen. Here's a real example for you: "I didn't call you an asshole, I asked you not to be an asshole — kwami (talk) 08:08, 15 January 2014 (UTC)" ] (]) 01:09, 23 February 2014 (UTC)


] '''Guideline and policy news'''
::::Thank you for thinking about me, Basalisk. ({{tq|I did so because I don't want you to feel, if you were to carry on making personal attacks and get into trouble for it, that no one had tried to warn you.}}) As mentioned I've already walked away from even potential dialogue w/ that user any more, and explained why. Also, you know, I'm not stupid, I'm aware that my comment to his attention was PA when I made it -- my feeling that it was ethically justified because of his shitty comments to me. (Once an editor accused me of name-calling Elen of Roads and Dennis Brown "asshats" and "idiots" when I never did any such thing. When I complained to an admin those false accusations crossed an ethical line, he replied that under WP they were simple incivilities nothing more. That showed me how inept CIV was early on. Do I get to say that I have "secret information" that Kevin Gorman raped his daughter and set fire to his mother?! I highly doubt it. But what is the WP mechanism for identifying false accusations, weighing their maliciousness, and enforcing CIV accordingly? That kind of evaluation process does not exist as far as I'm aware, on the WP. Everything is left up to individual admin interpretation and mood. Thus uneven enforcement. Thus resentment from those at the other end of uneven enforcement. Like Eric.) ] (]) 01:22, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
* Following ], ] was adopted as a ].
* A ] is open to discuss whether admins should be advised to warn users rather than issue no-warning blocks to those who have posted promotional content outside of article space.
] '''Technical news'''
* The Nuke feature also now ] to the userpage of the user whose pages were deleted, and to the pages which were not selected for deletion, after page deletions are queued. This enables easier follow-up admin-actions.


] '''Arbitration'''
::::Oh! (I would have had no problem if someone accused me of a name-call I did make. It was the fabrication/false accusation of those name-calls that I resented. Guess how the ANI cesspool handled my complaint? By claiming I was "BOOMERANGED" because I once templated that Jasper Deng should stop being a ], and that he was being "insufferable". The leading admin in that ANI justified the "BOOMERANG" evaluation by claiming that those things said to Deng were calling him "horrible names".) I'm not sure the logic in that, since I wasn't complaining about someone name-calling me. That is why I call ANI a cesspool of irresponsibility, and will never open a thread there under any circumstance. ] (]) 01:30, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
* Following the ], the following editors have been elected to the Arbitration Committee: {{noping|CaptainEek}}, {{noping|Daniel}}, {{noping|Elli}}, {{noping|KrakatoaKatie}}, {{noping|Liz}}, {{noping|Primefac}}, {{noping|ScottishFinnishRadish}}, {{noping|Theleekycauldron}}, {{noping|Worm That Turned}}.


] '''Miscellaneous'''
:::::Well if we're arguing semantics, calling someone a liar is an attack on their character, implying that they habitually lie. Pointing out that someone has said something that isn't true isn't a PA. I just have one more thing to clarify - it doesn't matter if you think PAs are "ethically justified". You're not allowed to make them. You're not the guy who gets to decide what is and is not acceptable - the rules apply to everyone. ]&nbsp;]⁄] 10:27, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
* A ] is happening in January 2025 to reduce the number of unreviewed articles and redirects in the ]. ]


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::::::You didn't rate the last two examples (PA or not?; BTW, both are real examples from the mouths of admins). Accusing someone of not being truthful, without willingness to back it up, instead deleting threads and kicking off one's Talk, is indistinguishable from a smear. (Same as accusing someone of harassment, without backing it up.) "The rules apply to everyone." That is not correct, and you know it. (What you mean is, they ''should''. In practice, they don't. That's self-evident. Numerous editors know it. It's a big issue on the WP -- uneven enforcement. In fact some of the most guilty for making PAs are admins. And none have ever been sanctioned for it. Uneven enforcement is seen as selective enforcement. Selective enforcement can be unfair since it is often a cover to carry out grudges. And you know that happens; if you don't, I certainly do. And that is abusive. So editors end up with not much respect for the uneven and selective and abusive admin CIV enforcement "system". This was all in place long before I signed up to be editor here. But it wasn't immediately evident to me as newbie, but I have at some point learned.) Why do you pick on me for warning, but not Eric? (Because he's a "big guy", and I'm a "little guy"? Picking on the little guys while avoiding the big guys is a classic method that bullies use. Or don't you think so!?) ] (]) 10:49, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
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:::::::I haven't got anything to say. We're just going round in circles. I return to my original message - don't make personal attacks. You're not allowed to behave that way on Misplaced Pages. That's not my rule, it's Misplaced Pages's rule. If you carry on, you may be blocked. I don't have anything else to say about the semantics of comments others have made, it's got no bearing on what '''you''' have said. If you've got issues with things people have said to you I suggest you take it up with them. Regards ]&nbsp;]⁄] 13:30, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
* ]
::::::::Oh come on Basalisk, I asked you specific questions, why can't you answer. You are acting like a glorified SummerPhD, who bored me to death with her 2-dimensional repetitions of "policy foul" like a parrot. (Is that why you have been stalking my edits, because of SummerPhD dialogue?) I give up on you. Your voice echoes in a tin can. ] (]) 14:13, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
* ]
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Latest revision as of 19:08, 5 January 2025

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2025 Sunday 12 January

Happy Adminship Anniversary!

Misplaced Pages globe and sysop mopHappy adminship anniversary!
Hi Elahrairah! On behalf of the Birthday Committee, I'd like to wish you a very happy anniversary of your successful request for adminship. Enjoy this special day! DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 00:39, 24 November 2024 (UTC) 		Party popper emoji

Administrators' newsletter – December 2024

News and updates for administrators from the past month (November 2024).

Administrator changes

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:19, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Administrative permissions and inactivity reminder

Information iconThis is a reminder that established policy provides for removal of the administrative permissions of users who have made fewer than 100 edits over a 60-month period. You are receiving this annual reminder since you have averaged less than 50 edits per year over the last 5 years.

Inactive administrators are encouraged to reengage with the project in earnest rather than to make token edits to avoid loss of administrative permissions. Resources and support for reengaging with the project are available at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Editor Retention/administrators. If you do not intend to be engaged with the project in the foreseeable future, please consider voluntarily resigning your administrative permissions by making a request at the bureaucrats' noticeboard.

Thank you for your past contributions to the project. — JJMC89 bot 00:23, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – January 2025

News and updates for administrators from the past month (December 2024).

Administrator changes

added Sennecaster
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CheckUser changes

added
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removed Ferret

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  • The Nuke feature also now provides links to the userpage of the user whose pages were deleted, and to the pages which were not selected for deletion, after page deletions are queued. This enables easier follow-up admin-actions.

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:47, 5 January 2025 (UTC)