Talk:Charles Bukowski: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 16:16, 6 March 2014 editAnna Roy (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers26,143 edits →Bukowski's Polish roots?: border change← Previous edit		Latest revision as of 18:54, 12 December 2024 edit undoStephenMacky1 (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users9,785 edits →Poetry editorial controversy: ReplyTag: Reply
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			== On cynicism ==
	== Relationship with Beat Generation Writers ==

			In the writing section: Isn't this an opinion and should be more factual?
	Bukowski was often labelled as a beat poet
	It is related in Howard Sounes biography that Charles Bukowski shat his pants when he was in the back seat of a car driven by "On the road" hero Neal Cassady. page 92

			"A few critics and commentators, also, supported the idea that Bukowski was a cynic, as a man and a writer; yet he was a pure stoic, not a cynic. As Bukowski stated himself in an interview: 'I've always been accused of being a cynic. I think cynicism is sour grapes. I think cynicism is a weakness.'"
	Of William Burroughs he said "I could push him over with one punch" page 141

			I agree with you; I will re-write it to remove the unsupported, "yet he was a pure stoic, not a cynic".
	At a party after a benefit reading he declared to Allen Ginsberg "everybody knows that after Howl you never wrote anything worth a shit" page 140
			] (])

		⚫	== He was Polish ==
	Locked in the Arms of a Crazy Life by Howard Sounes http://en.wikipedia.org/Charles_Bukowski:_Locked_in_the_Arms_of_a_Crazy_Life

			Not german ] (]) 02:32, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
	08:20, 18 April 2013 (UTC)08:20, 18 April 2013 (UTC)08:20, 18 April 2013 (UTC)08:20, 18 April 2013 (UTC)08:20, 18 April 2013 (UTC)08:20, 18 April 2013 (UTC)08:20, 18 April 2013 (UTC)~~

			== Poetry editorial controversy ==
	==Quote attributed to him==
	"The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid people are full of confidence."
	I have seen this quote in many places being attributed to Bukowski, yet I have not been able to find a legitimate source verifying he actually said it or where it originated. ] (]) 18:13, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

			Hello ]. I found another . I think the content of this section should be integrated into the "Death and legacy" section to comply with neutral point-of-view. Furthermore, unreliably sourced content should be still removed. Issues were raised about this section before but no one discussed then. ] (]) 17:27, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
⚫	== ~~Bukowski's~~ ~~Polish~~ ~~roots?~~ ==

			:I put it in the writing section:
	The last name "Bukowski" is typically Polish. I know that the ending "ski" is generally of Slavic origin, however there is one important thing which is the letter preceding, and it goes like this:
			:- because over half of his work was published posthumously
	* - usky (Belarusian)
			:- the poetry books (not novels) you can purchase nowadays have pretty much all been subject to this effect, i.e. OG poetry books are out of print
	* - vsky (Russian, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Czech, Slovak, Polish)
			:So it effects the majority of currently published work.
	* - vskiy (Russian, Ukrainian)
			:I think there are enough sources now. There were also original manuscripts scans available on bukowski.net but that website is down now, which were useful for comparing editorialization to originals. ] (]) 18:18, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
	* - vski (Bulgarian, Macedonian, Polish)
			::I recommended the "Death and legacy" section because it already contains content about posthumous publications. The writing section appears to be about his style, influences, etc. Misplaced Pages generally does not permit controversy sections either. I can mark the bukowski.net source as dead but the 45th source is unreliable since it is a forum. I also could not verify the term "John Martinized" in any of the sources. ] (]) 18:54, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
	* - wski (Polish only)
	As you see, the surname "Bukowski" is clearly of Polish descent. Now, how come there is no sign of Polish roots in Charles's biography? Was his father's family tree unexplored? ] (]) 21:15, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

	::We work with ] and what can be ]. Misplaced Pages articles are written by volunteers, usually using the strong sources they have to hand. The article says: "His paternal grandfather Leonard had emigrated to America from Germany (the present territories of Poland) in the 1880s."<font style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:15px;">] (])</font> 00:11, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

	: In order to the address the IP or IPs who have edited the article. There is a consensus on how to deal with the name of city called either Danzig or Gdańsk. You can find it here: ]. Since the time in question, namely when Bukowski's grandmother left the city, has been before 1945, the name is as given in the article. Please refrain from editing that. -- ] (]) 15:51, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

	::Sure, but we need to mention that it was behind a different countries border when Leonard was born. <font style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:15px;">] (])</font> 16:16, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

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On cynicism

In the writing section: Isn't this an opinion and should be more factual?

"A few critics and commentators, also, supported the idea that Bukowski was a cynic, as a man and a writer; yet he was a pure stoic, not a cynic. As Bukowski stated himself in an interview: 'I've always been accused of being a cynic. I think cynicism is sour grapes. I think cynicism is a weakness.'"

I agree with you; I will re-write it to remove the unsupported, "yet he was a pure stoic, not a cynic". Johnskrb2 (talk)

He was Polish

Not german 184.147.70.38 (talk) 02:32, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Poetry editorial controversy

Hello Subvertd. I found another source. I think the content of this section should be integrated into the "Death and legacy" section to comply with neutral point-of-view. Furthermore, unreliably sourced content should be still removed. Issues were raised about this section before but no one discussed then. StephenMacky1 (talk) 17:27, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

I put it in the writing section:

- because over half of his work was published posthumously

- the poetry books (not novels) you can purchase nowadays have pretty much all been subject to this effect, i.e. OG poetry books are out of print

So it effects the majority of currently published work.

I think there are enough sources now. There were also original manuscripts scans available on bukowski.net but that website is down now, which were useful for comparing editorialization to originals. Subvertd (talk) 18:18, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

I recommended the "Death and legacy" section because it already contains content about posthumous publications. The writing section appears to be about his style, influences, etc. Misplaced Pages generally does not permit controversy sections either. I can mark the bukowski.net source as dead but the 45th source is unreliable since it is a forum. I also could not verify the term "John Martinized" in any of the sources. StephenMacky1 (talk) 18:54, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

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