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| == "Information" about his personality and desires == | |||
| The material below, which seemed to be offering some valuable insight into Sellers' mindset, has been deleted twice, claiming Sellers never got the part, and suggest discussing instead. However, whether he got the part is less important than that he wanted it "most of all." As it is, IMO, the article is overloaded with minutia and trivia, and more general details about Sellers such as these are useful. Feedback requested. | |||
| {{quotebox|:Sellers tried to play the part of ], which he described in 1962 as "the film part I should like to play most of all." Sellers went to Israel and did his own research into Wingate's career.<ref>Lewis, p. 67</ref> Lewis states a number of reasons why Sellers was attracted to Wingate, adding that he saw direct similarities between Wingate and Sellers: | |||
| ::"The enigma of Wingate, and the anger and questing which inspired him, make explicit the two strands of Sellers I've been drawing out: the reflectiveness (which was moody and mystical) and the rashness—Wingate had an impetuosity which must have seemed almost crazy. Sellers responded to the drama of a heroic career . . . and felt an affinity, too, with Wingate's maverick nature."<ref>Lewis, p 67</ref>}} --] (]) 21:59, 12 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :This is beyond trivia really. It's the opinion of a man who didn't meet Sellers, and comparing him to Wingate, another man neither he nor Sellers met! (BTW, if you add material,in future, please use the {{tl|sfn}} template to ensure consistency). - ] (]) 22:29, 12 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::Lewis is one of the ''most'' cited sources in the article. Why would his "opinion" be invalid now? --] (]) 18:50, 13 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| == Gestapo? == | |||
| :::His outline of facts is cited: his opinion of Sellers's character is not. - ] (]) 14:14, 14 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ‘When he was told he could come on as someone else, he appeared dressed as a member of the Gestapo.’ | |||
| Seriously Light show??♦ ] 13:36, 14 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| What? | |||
| :These seem like worthwhile edits to me. We should be concerned with the personality of Sellers. Insights into his personality provided by biographer Roger Lewis would seem worthy of our consideration for inclusion in this article. ] (]) 13:53, 14 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| What Sellers did on Parkinson was perform an excerpt portraying the oddball New York character who wrote the musical ‘Springtime For Hitler’ which was the production featured in ] | |||
| ::Not really: Lewis didn't meet either Sellers or Wingate, so his comparing the second hand opinions of others to force a third hand opinion doesn't add anything to our understanding. - ] (]) 14:12, 14 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| == Surname at birth == | |||
| :::Yeah it doesn't make sense if he didn't meet him.♦ ] 16:40, 14 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| Was Peter Sellers' birth name Richard Henry Seller or Richard Henry Seller'''s'''? I'm seeing some sources state that the "s" was only added later. ] <sub>(] / ])</sub> 00:11, 8 September 2022 (UTC) | |||
| Can any of the editors who consider a cited author/biographer's "opinions" as invalid, please support it with guidelines? It seems that an "opinion" from a ] is an acceptable ]. Otherwise, we may have a few hundred thousand biographies that should be deleted. Maybe an RfC related to biographies and policies would be helpful. BTW, Lewis goes into more factual details about both Sellers and Wingate in his , which is heavily relied on for the article. --] (]) 18:05, 14 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :I checked the birth index and he was registered under Richard Henry Seller. His first two marriages (to Aspinwall-Howe and Ekland/Eklund) and his death are registered under the names Peter Sellers and Richard Henry Seller. I looked for his parents marriage and they married under the names William Seller and Agnes Doreen Ayres formerly Marks (I ordered it to make sure they were the right people). While his birth name is indeed Seller not Sellers, his parents deaths both appear to be under Sellers and his children are all registered as Sellers (Victoria's mothers maiden name is Ekland not Eklund as well.) | |||
| :If you think that the above is a good thing to put into a featured article, then you have no idea what quality content actually is. Despite the overlong quote, it focuses on a film that he didn't make: we've left out information about films he did make for reasons of clarity, and keeping the article readable, and you want to bloat it out with guesswork about Sellers's character from someone who never met him? If it had been one of Sellers's family or colleagues that made the connection then it would be a good post to raise, but from a total stranger? It's just not a very valid point to make. - ] (]) 09:47, 15 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :I hope this information is helpful (I can go into more detail if you're interested) | |||
| :] (]) 13:53, 17 October 2022 (UTC) | |||
| == Missing from the Filmography == | |||
| ::For a 10,000-word bio with facts and quotes by everyone else ''but'' Sellers, a direct quote ''from'' him mentioning "the film part I should like to play most of all," is of value. But the quote needs context to have any meaning, therefore comments about that statement from one of his key biographers are logical to include. --] (]) 18:47, 15 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| Is there any particular reason why the 1968 Film - The Party - is missing from the Filmography section of the Article? | |||
| :::A quote about a film he didn't make is borderline boring and trivial (especially given the amount of his work we ''don't'' cover), but the over bloated nonsense that accompanies it? If you think that is a good way to approach quality articles, then it's no surprise you've never written and FA or GA. We've kept large block quotes from Sellers himself and one from Milligan, who probably knew and understood him better than anyone else. We certainly do not need trivial bollocks from someone who never met him, comparing him to someone else he never met. - ] (]) 23:47, 15 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| Has anyone complained about him playing an Indian Actor in body makeup? ] (]) 22:43, 22 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::A biographer is not a . ] seems to have reasonably good credentials in the area of writing biographies. There might seem to be traction in the reasoning that but we need not omit reliably sourced material from a biography based on such reasoning. I think this material serves an encyclopedic purpose. The opinion that an acting role is '''''"the film part I should like to play most of all"''''' would seem to be potentially of interest to a reader. Perhaps some questions are left unanswered but I don't think this is . The reader may want to know '''''why''''' Sellers' was attracted to playing the role of ]. But we are not responsible or answering all questions. The subject of this biography is an actor. The inclusion of the material under consideration can serve the valuable role of providing the reader with a jumping-off point for further research. In my opinion that purpose intrinsically would be of encyclopedic value. ] (]) 00:55, 16 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Lewis never met Sellers; he never met Wingate. He may well have an idea of Sellers's personality from others, buts it's still a second hand opinion. He has even less of a grasp of Wingate, and has never written about him, as far as I can see, so he is basing his opinion on rather shaky third hand gossip. The only truly factual and encyclopaedic information here is a) Sellers wanted to make a film about Wingate (and a quote about that); and b) He didn't make it. The rest is unencyclopaedic. Does the fact about Sellers not making a film need to go into an article which (by design) doesn't cover all the roles he did actually play? Not so much, no: it dips down to the levels of trivia in comparison. - ] (]) 08:54, 16 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| == Summary of Changes == | |||
| :::::Maybe Sellers was aware that Winston Churchill called Wingate "A man of genius who might well have become also a man of destiny." There was also a BBC movie . But I doubt if the film Sellers was thinking about would have been a comedy. --] (]) 02:10, 16 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::"Maybe"? "I doubt"? Your opinion on the facts is as irrelevant as mine or anyone else's here, as it's POV and utterly unconnected to any material that will get near the article. I have no idea why the BBC film also has any relevance: Sellers was unconnected to it and Lewis didn't mention it, so why is that of relevance here? - ] (]) 08:39, 16 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::It was in response to the reasonable question from Bus Stop: ''The reader may want to know why Sellers' was attracted to playing the role of Wingate.'' This is a "talk" page, not a PA club. Not all of us are ] of discussing such things. --] (]) 16:34, 16 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::? I have no idea what you're on about. As always your comments seem to drift away from the point into a nonsensical and irrelevant place far too readily. - ] (]) 16:57, 16 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::"{{u|Light show|The}} reader may want to know why Sellers was attracted to playing the role of Wingate." -- Then again, they may not give a toss. Now move along, there is nothing to see here! ]] 17:19, 16 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::Then again, <u>]</u>, maybe Sellers was hoping to counter the erroneous impression others may have had: "To quote Spike Milligan," ], "Sellers's portrayals of Jews were 'less than adulatory. He never did a refined Jew; we even got letters from listeners saying that The Goon Show was anti-Semitic.'" --] (]) 18:05, 16 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::Although he ''did'' make his attitude and ambitions clear to ], as the article states. --] (]) 18:05, 16 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::Again, this is fuck all to do with him not playing Wingate in a film. - ] (]) 20:16, 16 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::Yet it's more relevant to who Sellers was, IMO, than the massive, 2-week long, 40,000-word ], started after someone ] some nugget of ''real'' trivia. It created a frenzy about whether some ] TV character was Jewish or not. Now ''that's'' trivia. --] (]) 21:12, 16 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::::If you haven't got anything sensible to add, perhaps it's best if you look at other articles to work on: your opinions on this are tainted beyond any constructive point. I didn't start the thread about Monty Casino, I didn't want to waste time or energy over it, and look, at the end of the day then consensus was that it remains, so you'll have to ask those who fanned the flames why they kept banging on. Still, neither that, nor the last few of your posts here have advanced any sensible or rational arguments as to why we should add information about a film Sellers didn't make (s opposed to the ad, which he ''did'' make). If you've nothing sensible to say, or must use childish links to images to make your message, then move on to something more constructive. - ] (]) 21:23, 16 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::::Once again, the subject is not about a ''film'', but about Sellers, the ''person'', as noted in this section's heading. --] (]) 21:30, 16 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| 1. Inclusion of birth name in infobox (Richard Henry Sellers). | |||
| ::::::::Why the hell are you dragging that old chestnut up again? ]] 18:28, 16 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| 2. Two references have dead links (fixed one and replaced the other with a different citation and changed the sentence with information from alternate citation). | |||
| ::::::::We're getting in slightly nonsensical information again here. He wouldn't have portrayed a jew of any description: he would have portrayed a friend of the Jews, which is what Wingate was, being a solid Christian, but a supporter of Zionism. I'll also add once again, just to make it clear, this is also about a film that was never made, which means we have to put its notability under the spotlight to see if it's a valid point, or moving into trivia. A quick look at the literature shows that of Sellers's biographers, Evans, Rigelsford, Michael Sellers, Sikov, Starr and Walker all don't bother to blether on about this film that wasn't made (a not uncommon ocurrance in Sellers's career), or try and draw any parallels between Sellers and Wingate. There's no consensus to add this trivia to the article, so it's best to drop the stick and move on. Over four million articles on Wiki need attention to bring them up to a half-decent standard, and arguing the toss over this trivial nonsense isn't improving any of them. - ] (]) 19:17, 16 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| 3. Added influence sentence to lead. ] (]) 09:21, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Hi ], thanks for bringing this to the talk page. However, at this point some of your changes have been ] by multiple editors, so it would be best to seek ] for those. ] (]) 04:20, 21 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Why is it the same people turning up time and time again here? A couple of times it's easy to assume good faith but this sort of thing seems to happen every few weeks.♦ ] 10:19, 16 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 04:20, 21 September 2024
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Gestapo?
‘When he was told he could come on as someone else, he appeared dressed as a member of the Gestapo.’
What?
What Sellers did on Parkinson was perform an excerpt portraying the oddball New York character who wrote the musical ‘Springtime For Hitler’ which was the production featured in The Producers (musical)
Surname at birth
Was Peter Sellers' birth name Richard Henry Seller or Richard Henry Sellers? I'm seeing some sources state that the "s" was only added later. HapHaxion (talk / contribs) 00:11, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
- I checked the birth index and he was registered under Richard Henry Seller. His first two marriages (to Aspinwall-Howe and Ekland/Eklund) and his death are registered under the names Peter Sellers and Richard Henry Seller. I looked for his parents marriage and they married under the names William Seller and Agnes Doreen Ayres formerly Marks (I ordered it to make sure they were the right people). While his birth name is indeed Seller not Sellers, his parents deaths both appear to be under Sellers and his children are all registered as Sellers (Victoria's mothers maiden name is Ekland not Eklund as well.)
- I hope this information is helpful (I can go into more detail if you're interested)
- Spamwebster (talk) 13:53, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
Missing from the Filmography
Is there any particular reason why the 1968 Film - The Party - is missing from the Filmography section of the Article?
Has anyone complained about him playing an Indian Actor in body makeup? Steve s brook (talk) 22:43, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
Summary of Changes
1. Inclusion of birth name in infobox (Richard Henry Sellers). 2. Two references have dead links (fixed one and replaced the other with a different citation and changed the sentence with information from alternate citation). 3. Added influence sentence to lead. Chirpy-slirpy-BURPY (talk) 09:21, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Chirpy-slirpy-BURPY, thanks for bringing this to the talk page. However, at this point some of your changes have been reverted by multiple editors, so it would be best to seek consensus for those. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:20, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
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