Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license.
Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat.
We can research this topic together.
{{NOINDEX}}<!-- If you have an objection to something on one of my user pages, please follow section 7.3.2 of WP:USERPAGES ("The best option if there is a concern with a user's page is to draw their attention to the matter via their talk page and let them edit it themselves, if they are agreeable") unless there is some reason why the matter must be addressed urgently. I am almost always "agreeable" on such things -- another set of eyes will usually have less bias and conflict of interest than I could possible have when looking at my own user page. -->{{troutme}}]
{{retired|date=29 June 2021.<br> |reason= I have decided to stop contributing to Misplaced Pages articles.<br> I will continue maintaining certain essays that some users have told me they find useful}}
{{clear}}
]
<!-- Committed identity: c0c5e71bca550e99a8ae6641e66c428e232051bade39cd47355634ff159c9475fffa1d12eee339aa401bfe5b31ff7fc352c2b9c6f002bfe82d03a6b3f9e40047 is a SHA-512 commitment to Guy Macon's real-life identity. -->
<!-- Committed identity: c0c5e71bca550e99a8ae6641e66c428e232051bade39cd47355634ff159c9475fffa1d12eee339aa401bfe5b31ff7fc352c2b9c6f002bfe82d03a6b3f9e40047 is a SHA-512 commitment to Guy Macon's real-life identity. -->
{{User:MiszaBot/config
{{User:MiszaBot/config
|archiveheader = {{talk archive navigation}}
|archiveheader = {{talk archive navigation}}
|maxarchivesize = 64K
|maxarchivesize = 256K
|counter = 2
|counter = 4
|minthreadsleft = 1
|minthreadsleft = 0
|minthreadstoarchive = 1
|minthreadstoarchive = 1
|algo = old(90d)
|algo = old(90d)
|archive = User talk:Guy Macon/Archive %(counter)d
|archive = User talk:Guy Macon/Archive %(counter)d
* Please post your new comments at the ''bottom'' of the comment you are replying to.
* Please sign and date your entry by inserting "'''<span style="letter-spacing:.2em;"><nowiki>~~</nowiki>~~</span>'''" at the end.
* Please indent your posts with "''':'''" if replying to an existing topic (or "'''::'''" if replying to a reply).
* I will generally respond ''here'' to comments that are posted here, so you may want to this page until you are responded to.
* I delete or collapse most messages after I have read them. The history tab will show you a complete list of all past comments.
* If you find this page on any site other than Wiki<!---->pedia you are viewing a mirror site. Be aware that the page may be outdated, and that the user this page belongs to may have no personal affiliation with any site other than Wiki<!---->pedia itself. The original page is located at <span style="white-space: nowrap">.</span><br>
|}
<br>
{{clear}}
<font size="4"> "Misplaced Pages's articles are no place for strong views. Or rather, we feel about strong views the way that a natural history museum feels about tigers. We admire them and want our visitors to see how fierce and clever they are, so we stuff them and mount them for close inspection. We put up all sorts of carefully worded signs to get people to appreciate them as much as we do. But however much we adore tigers, a live tiger loose in the museum is seen as an urgent problem." --] </font><br>
<br>
{{clear}}
== Only {{#expr:999999999-{{NUMBEROFARTICLES:R}}}} articles left until our billionth article! ==
<!-- ] 03:14, 19 January 2038 (UTC) -->
We are only {{#expr:999999999-{{NUMBEROFARTICLES:R}}}} articles away from our 1,000,000,000th article{{Purge|...}} --]
Guy, I see you editing now and then. Can't you please come back for real? You're missed. ]] 21:08, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
Hi, you've recently mentioned some recent RfC's involving COI.... can you clue me in on this? best regards, --] <small>(] • ] • ])</small> 07:24, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
^ He's right, you know. Whatever you're doing, I hope you're doing well. ] (]) 03:04, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
:Not exactly doing well -- medical problems -- but I am optimistic about having a full recovery.
== COI stuff ==
:I would love to go back to editing articles, but there is one thing stopping me. There is an admin who called me a liar and said that they can't believe anything I say, made up a new rule (I am not allowed to refer to certain individuals by their Misplaced Pages username) and, blocked me without warning for violating the new rule. I really was trying to do what I thought was the right thing and avoid offense, but of course if I say that I am lying. :( I would also note that the individual who I supposedly offended by calling them by their username never objected (I would have stopped if asked) but instead a third party well known for shit-stirring over political and gender issues reported me.
:I would have stopped the behavior and simply never interacted with that user again if asked. I always stop any behaviour that anyone asks me to stop, whether I agree or not. Far better to talk things over than going straight to blocking (for admins) or edit warring (for regular users).
:Whether I am right or not, it is my belief that this one admin dislikes me enough to make up another new rule and block me for it if I start editing articles again. If someone else was willing to ask them to step aside and let other admins deal with any misbehavior on my part, I could get beck to full editing. I would be glad to agree to having one of you promise to keep an eye on my actions and report anything I do that is against policy. I would also be glad to have another admin say that they will keep a close eye on me.
:What I am NOT willing to do is to interact with an admin who I believe has a personal animosity against me, and I am also unwilling to name them here or criticize them publicly and risk further enraging them. If anyone reading this is willing to act as a neutral third party and ask them to step aside and let other admins deal with me, please email me. I may not answer for a few days because of medical issues, so please be patient. --] (]) 18:13, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
:::First and foremost, I hope you do indeed fully recover, and please look after yourself. {{pb}}I've refreshed my memory about your block. Please bear in mind that I am so far as I know not on the spectrum, so I can be annoyingly unclear without realising it. But consider that a lot of us went a bit barmy/nuts during the pandemic (and it isn't over yet) and in retrospect, weren't thinking as clearly as we thought we were. My understanding is: (a) You have an interaction ban, which you have been respecting, so there's no need for further discussion of that. (b) The admin in question said back in 2021 that they would not post here again. (c) (this is getting more into my personal understanding of how things work on Misplaced Pages) For that admin to keep watch over your edits would be frowned on, especially 3 years on from your being unblocked. (d) I'm not aware of you doing anything contentious since then (except possibly disrespecting the WMF, which to me is more of a duty than an infraction, providing one is civil toward individual employees and other editors); you've kept your nose clean and there's no reason not to presume you will not continue to do so. (e) on the specific precipitating issue, I note you use singular ''they'' above, and (partly for anyone else reading here) that Tamzin wrote ] and also said at the time that they were open to questions; that may still be true. {{pb}} I am not a good person to ask to monitor edits; for one thing, I limit my edits each month, and for another, I often go by the spirit of the rules rather than citing chapter and verse. But if you want, I can send someone an e-mail to verify a few of my presumptions. Do you want me to, or are my assurances enough for now ... once you feel better? Because above all, look after yourself. ] (]) 03:35, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
::Guy, here's what I want you to do: (1) get to that full recovery; (2) once that's behind you, contact me and Yngvadottir (who, I am sure, will not mind my volunteering them) so we can help you find a path back. You may remember when, years ago, there was some misunderstanding between us which we successfully navigated past, to the point where we became good friends. Together we can get past this situation too. Good luck, and let's hear from you when you're ready. ]] 03:56, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Thanks to both of you. I will post back here after I get some medical treatments that may help my condition. For anyone else reading this, at one time I hated the singular "they" and felt that I was being forced to use what I learned in school to be bad grammar. The fact that a bunch of people tried to change my mind by calling me a homophobe and transphobe (I deny this. I have volunteered a significant amount of my time working towards equal right for the LGBTQ+ community and see no reason why they should be treated differently in any way.) made me dig in my heels even further. I rally felt like I was being bullied. Then they started spreading the accusation on Reddit and Wikipediocracy, so now whenever you Google my name you see me listed as a homophobe.
:::I honestly thought that avoiding both "him" and "they" and calling the person by their username was a good way to avoid offense. And I was and still am very angry that instead of simply asking me to stop doing that an admin destroyed my perfect record of no blocks. Especally because of what I believe is personal dislike towards me.
:::One person -- one single person out of the dozens who blasted me -- made an effort to actually discuss the grammar aspect. And they convinced me that I was wrong and that a singular they/them isn't bad grammar! So that's one more reason why I don't think that my behavior regarding prounouns will ever again be seen as problemetic by any admin other than the one who drove me away from being an active contributor.
:::On a more positive note, it really lifted my spirits being reminded of our friendship and how it had a rocky start. So whatever happens, thank you for that. --] (]) 14:45, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Re {{tq|my perfect record of no blocks}}: Remember, Guy ... ] ]] ]] 19:27, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
:Count me among those who wish you find a way that works for you to return as that contributor as whom I remember you. ---] ] 23:38, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
Sorry to hear about your poor health - get well soon! I also would like to see you editing regularly! ]<sup>]</sup> 08:06, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
We miss you ] (]) 19:53, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
Hi Guy. I was wondering if you had time to chip-in on a couple articles where I have a COI. ] has already reviewed my work on improving the ] page, but I was hoping to find someone to do the Request Edit.
{{od}}
I've also submitted an AfC for ], which ] provided feedback on (that I implemented), but he/she said they were not confident enough about company articles to do the formal approve/decline. The backlog is about a month long and I was hoping not to wait so long to get an answer ;-)
I have been thinking about this a lot, but writing the following caused me to come to a decision:
] (]) 16:13, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
]
== Mass reversion ==
I think that I should return to editing articles about alternate medicine. I think people are being misled and hurt and that I can help. Also, my health issues appear to have stabilized. So I am officially asking for help in overcoming the issues that caused me to mostly stop editing articles.
Hello! I noticed that you mass-reverted edits by ], citing ] (and I see from your messages on the editor's talk page that you observed actual problems with some of the changes).
Here is some background for those who are unfamiliar with the situation. I may be convinced to change my mind later, but for now I do NOT wish to name names, provide diffs, or in any way reopen a dispute from years ago,
I just want to point out that some of the user's edits appear to have been constructive. {{diff|Judge (disambiguation)|598096542||This reversion}} appeared on my watchlist. The user had repaired a disambiguation page link (per ]) and a piped article link (per ] and ]). I checked some of the other reverted edits at random and saw additional disambiguation page link repairs (such as {{diff|Interstate 35W|596261377||this one}}). I also saw edits that the user shouldn't have been performed (per ]), but that also shouldn't have been reverted (because doing so only added ''another'' unnecessary revision).
I also should mention that I am a high-functioning autistic. This is not in any way an excuse for any behavior, but it might help if anyone wishes to understand the way my mind words.
I suggest that you examine your edits and self-revert those in which you accidentally undid improvements (and please try to be more careful in the future). Thank you. —] 12:40, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
In 2021 I made a mistake. I took a position on gender pronouns based upon what I was taught in school -- a position that is now unpopular. I tried to maintain my wrong opinion while doing my level best to accommodate others and not cause offense, but it became clear that unless I bent the knee and pretended to agree with something I thought was wrong, the attacks would never stop.
:Thanks for the notification; I had not realized that I had reverted some good edits. I will go through every edit I made and make sure they are good. Again, I appreciate you letting me know that I made errors and giving me the chance to self-revert. I will post a followup not here when I am confident that I caught all of the bad edits. --] (]) 12:58, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Among all of my attackers, one single person approached me with the attitude of "I also think you are wrong, so let's discuss it and see if I can convince you or you can convince me." The result of that discussion was that I realized that I was the one who was wrong. Actually, factually wrong. What I had been taught about the history of gender pronouns was false. The singular they is far, far older than most people think.
::Thanks again. :-) —] 13:09, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
That's when I discovered another nasty truth. No amount of saying "I was wrong" and no amount of apologizing or groveling will ever stop the attacks. Once you express a wrong opinion related to gender you are evil incarnate forever. All the hours you previously put in fighting for equal marriage rights do not matter. You expressed a wrong opinion, and so you are scum for eternity.
== ] ==
In the midst of this I was blocked for a short period by an admin who made several statements indicating that they have a personal animosity towards me. I pretty much withdrew from participating in creating the encyclopedia at that point.
I have to tell you something. The guy with this IP address suggest moving ] to Die Hard (film), which I don't find it necessary and it doesn't change a thing about it since Die Hard is the main name of the film, among other things. ] (]) 21:58, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
I don't want to publicly criticize of even identify the admin, but if they simply agreed -- without any admission of fault -- to step away and let the other admins handle any bad behavior on my part, I would be willing to resume editing articles. Otherwise, no. It is my belief that I will do something wrong and instead of being asked to stop doing it I will be blocked indefinitely and thus no longer be able to update essays that are important to me such as ], ], and ]
:I agree. Right now the proposal to move the page is losing, and I don't think anyone will agree that it needs to be moved, so let's wait and see what happens. I have to clean up some errors I made earlier first, but after that I will look into whether the IP user is making a habit of suggesting moves that don't make sense. --] (]) 23:25, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
If someone is willing to act as a mediator between us, I would welcome that. I will not, under any circumstances, directly interact with the admin.
::The proposed move has now been closed (]). The result was '''no move'''. --] (]) 11:10, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
FWIW, the evidence is this: after the RfC was filed and around the Guy/JzG posted at AN about QG and chiro, QG initially became highly (and imo weirdly) conciliatory, asking for a "truce", telling me and Mallexikon that he's stop editing acu articles if we wanted, asking me to undo all his edits since Decmber-ish, and changing his mind about whether category:pseudoscience should be used for the article. Then, a few days later, after I came out in support of a topic ban that others had previously suggested, QG reversed course 180 degrees, posting complaints about my edits at acu (all of which had been resolved earlier, AFAIK), deciding that acu should be in category:pseudoscience after all, and edit-warring over an NPOV tag that I'd placed on another article. This is imo battleground editing; I find it really inappropriate to make content changes for WP-political reasons. Regards, --] <small>(] • ] • ])</small> 14:50, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
--] (]) 21:52, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
:Assuming that you are correct (I am not taking sides, not having looked at the evidence myself) while there is no explicit rule on this, in general it is better to stay silent if the behavior is at the RFC/U itself and let those evaluating the RFC/U decide for themselves. Not responding (except for correcting statements of fact when you have diffs/citations showing that they are wrong) actually strengthens your argument. Psychologically, our brains tell us "you ''have'' to respond or everyone will think that it is true!" but the reality is the exact opposite. That's why you so often see someone in an argument making points in the form of questions; instinctively they know that responding usually weakens their opponent's position. Plus, the subjects of RFC/Us are often stressed out and are given a lot of slack.
:Hi, Guy - great to hear you're doing better! I'd be willing to act as mediator, if you think it'd help. My email is open. Just to note, though, I'm travelling from tomorrow until Tuesday, and won't have proper access to my WP email until I'm back. ]<sup>]</sup> 12:51, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
:If the behavior is in an article (including changing the category) and your complaint is valid that is the best kind of evidence. Even then staying cool and sticking to the facts is to your advantage.
::Thanks! Please coordinate with EEng. I think that having multiple people on my side will help, as I expect that the multiple people who think I am worse than hitler are likely to weigh in when they get wind that I might come back. :( --] (]) 00:02, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
::Hey Guy. As I think I've mentioned before, I don't know the background to whatever it is that happened. But as I've also mentioned before, I'd really like to see you back happily editing. So I'll be watching here for anything I can do to help. Looks like {{U|Yngvadottir}} hasn't edited in 3 or 4 days, so he won't have seen recent posts here, but I'm sure I speak for them as well. ]] 07:17, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
== The six-fingered man ==
:::I'm nobody but so many people have left recently, it's sad... I wrote on my page a long time ago and it seems more and more true today:
::::"And I really hate it when good editors feel they have to leave...I mean, I can understand retiring, but I miss so many people who aren't around any more for one reason or another."
:::Stay well, I hope everything works out. - ] (]) 14:33, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
:Everybody: Guy, I really really want you to come back. Thanks for the pings from you and EEng. I had an accident and am stuck in the hospital. I have just got access to the net using my old laptop. I should not do any mental heavy lifting. I haven't looked up the names involved. I don't want to make anything worse—I didn't bust my head and I am not currently on any interestung drugs, but my mental fighting weight is v. low. So ... once I can get out of this place and be able to use my desktop comp and clear my head, I will have your back as far as I'm able. I remember the part of it where you understood and said you were sorry. And I wanted you to pass that RfA and still trust your judgement, and your integrity. But right now I can't rely on my own judgement, I'm sorry. :-( ] (]) 21:18, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
made me laugh out loud if for no other reason than how very true it is. Thanks! ] (]) 22:13, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
::No problem. If you feel better, jump in. Get well, while the rest of us hatch some sort of Evil Plot To Detroy Misplaced Pages. :) --] (]) 00:02, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
== The UAF DRN ==
To all: I think a gentle request to a certain admin asking him to agree -- without ain any way admitting any sourt of fault -- to let other admins handle any misbehavior on my part would be a good place to start. If that doesn't work, I can put together a complete timeline with diffs if any one want to know all of the details. To be clear, I will never again have any interaction with the admin in question and if he blocks me again, I plan on scrambling my password and disapearing from Misplaced Pages rather than fighting a battle I cannot win. --] (]) 20:12, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
Since the OP has now reported me at ANI for allegedly stalking him, and did not return to DRN after his unblock, is there any point in keeping this open? ] (]) 19:29, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
----
In the meantime, here is the problem that led me to the decision that I should be part of the solution:
]
:Здравствуйте, товарищ! DRN does not take cases that are at other dispute resolution venues, so I closed it. I was going to close it after 3 days of inactivity anyway. -] (])
Eugene Lipov and his partner Jamie Mustard, has been targetting the anti-scientology community with the following claims:
== FYI ==
* Everybody who leaves the Church of Scientology has PTSD.
Hi Guy. ] . ] <small><sup style="position:relative">]<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-5.2ex;*left:-5.5ex">]</span></sup></small> 15:01, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
* Doctor Lipov's Overpriced Magic PTSD shots will fix pretty much any problem these anti-scientologists have.
It's a classic case of an alternative medicine snake oil peddler or one of his followers writing up a friendly Misplaced Pages article on the snake oil.
== Mistake or feature? ==
So if anyone reading this can fix the article or even just least a comment in the NPOVNB discussion, I would really appreciate it.
I do not know whether this is a mistake. In this , ''poitics'' stands for politics, poetics or both? ] (]) 01:48, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
Several people have remarked that the work I did on the ] page prevented them from taking "medicine" that contains lead, mercury and arsenic. I think I should get back to doing that sort of work here. --] (]) 21:24, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
== Induction motor, etc ==
:Yes indeed. I feel sure we can make that happen. ]] 02:42, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
::When the right time comes, I can try to help with this if I can. --] (]) 00:21, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
===Arbor-treeish break===
(Discussion moved to ].)
OK, {{U|Bastun}}, I guess we're the point of the spear. The first job is to understand exactly what happened. (Maybe you already do -- I don't. Do you?) I've got a short list of links to old discussions and posts which I think will unlock the mystery, but with Thanksgiving and some personal pressures I won't be able to give them any time, and then work with you to formulate a plan, for at least another eleven days. Luckily, there's no hurry (as much as I know we'd like Guy back soon, it has been three years so a little more time won't matter). ]] 22:48, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
:I won't be available until the first week of 2025 (you would not believe how difficult it has become delivering all those toys to all of those children!) so please hold of on doing anything until then. Thanks! --] (]) 19:11, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
::Ho! Ho! Ho! Just say the word when you're ready, then we'll all convene to find a way to make this work. ]] 20:05, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Ye Guy I kinda saw that thing, not the details, but it was horrible. I think I know the one admin you're talking about. He's an ass... ass... assumer of bad faith. I ran into him at ANI when I reported a troll (now blocked of course) and he closed the thread right off and told me to "get on with my life". So that's it, I'm out. I'm not reporting anyone ever again. Let the admins find bad actors themselves.
]
== Arbitration case request: Debian ==
:::Anyway... come back. You're really good and we could do with you. I miss your graphs for one thing. I was thinking of being like "The graphs guy got chased away, and I can't do graphs like that (few can), but here's a random graph I found which is the best I can do". I guess I better not tho, heh. We've been selecting for humorless drones since the ] and that was long ago. ] (]) 01:14, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
*I was about to post... I've got some serious IRL problems for a few weeks, but my commitment remains firm. ]] 05:19, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at ] and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—
:I should be ready to pull the trigger by next Monday. Everyone who has commented should expect an email on Friday. --] (]) 17:58, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
* ];
::Just to be clear, Guy, I'm under ''INTENSE'' IRL pressure for the next two to three weeks, so I'd rather defer the coup until after then, if that's all right with you. ]] 18:06, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
* ].
::I have some time, so am willing to take point, but whatever works best for you both. ]<sup>]</sup> 19:48, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I have waited for years, and have no problem with waiting until everyone has plenty of time. --] (]) 16:01, 8 January 2025 (UTC) Edited 21:18, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
Thanks,<!-- Template:Arbcom notice -->
This request may still be in the filing party's ]. ] (]) 19:42, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
== from Gregg Easterbrook ==
(Question moved to ])
:Hi! Sorry for the delay. First thing tomorrow morning I will discuss how we want to approach this. Everything you are talking about seems reasonable. I got both emaila, BTW. --] (]) 06:32, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
::I moved the above question to ] so we can keep the discussion in one place Please go there to read my answer. --] (]) 14:42, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
== Table ==
Wow, that could be confusing! ] (]) 17:55, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
:This being Misplaced Pages, we have a list...
:]
:]
:...and an article which goes into more depth...
:]
:--] (]) 18:22, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
Latest revision as of 21:18, 11 January 2025
Retired
This user is no longer active on Misplaced Pages as of 29 June 2021. I have decided to stop contributing to Misplaced Pages articles. I will continue maintaining certain essays that some users have told me they find useful.
Not exactly doing well -- medical problems -- but I am optimistic about having a full recovery.
I would love to go back to editing articles, but there is one thing stopping me. There is an admin who called me a liar and said that they can't believe anything I say, made up a new rule (I am not allowed to refer to certain individuals by their Misplaced Pages username) and, blocked me without warning for violating the new rule. I really was trying to do what I thought was the right thing and avoid offense, but of course if I say that I am lying. :( I would also note that the individual who I supposedly offended by calling them by their username never objected (I would have stopped if asked) but instead a third party well known for shit-stirring over political and gender issues reported me.
I would have stopped the behavior and simply never interacted with that user again if asked. I always stop any behaviour that anyone asks me to stop, whether I agree or not. Far better to talk things over than going straight to blocking (for admins) or edit warring (for regular users).
Whether I am right or not, it is my belief that this one admin dislikes me enough to make up another new rule and block me for it if I start editing articles again. If someone else was willing to ask them to step aside and let other admins deal with any misbehavior on my part, I could get beck to full editing. I would be glad to agree to having one of you promise to keep an eye on my actions and report anything I do that is against policy. I would also be glad to have another admin say that they will keep a close eye on me.
What I am NOT willing to do is to interact with an admin who I believe has a personal animosity against me, and I am also unwilling to name them here or criticize them publicly and risk further enraging them. If anyone reading this is willing to act as a neutral third party and ask them to step aside and let other admins deal with me, please email me. I may not answer for a few days because of medical issues, so please be patient. --Guy Macon (talk) 18:13, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
First and foremost, I hope you do indeed fully recover, and please look after yourself. I've refreshed my memory about your block. Please bear in mind that I am so far as I know not on the spectrum, so I can be annoyingly unclear without realising it. But consider that a lot of us went a bit barmy/nuts during the pandemic (and it isn't over yet) and in retrospect, weren't thinking as clearly as we thought we were. My understanding is: (a) You have an interaction ban, which you have been respecting, so there's no need for further discussion of that. (b) The admin in question said back in 2021 that they would not post here again. (c) (this is getting more into my personal understanding of how things work on Misplaced Pages) For that admin to keep watch over your edits would be frowned on, especially 3 years on from your being unblocked. (d) I'm not aware of you doing anything contentious since then (except possibly disrespecting the WMF, which to me is more of a duty than an infraction, providing one is civil toward individual employees and other editors); you've kept your nose clean and there's no reason not to presume you will not continue to do so. (e) on the specific precipitating issue, I note you use singular they above, and (partly for anyone else reading here) that Tamzin wrote an explanatory essay and also said at the time that they were open to questions; that may still be true. I am not a good person to ask to monitor edits; for one thing, I limit my edits each month, and for another, I often go by the spirit of the rules rather than citing chapter and verse. But if you want, I can send someone an e-mail to verify a few of my presumptions. Do you want me to, or are my assurances enough for now ... once you feel better? Because above all, look after yourself. Yngvadottir (talk) 03:35, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
Guy, here's what I want you to do: (1) get to that full recovery; (2) once that's behind you, contact me and Yngvadottir (who, I am sure, will not mind my volunteering them) so we can help you find a path back. You may remember when, years ago, there was some misunderstanding between us which we successfully navigated past, to the point where we became good friends. Together we can get past this situation too. Good luck, and let's hear from you when you're ready. EEng03:56, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
Thanks to both of you. I will post back here after I get some medical treatments that may help my condition. For anyone else reading this, at one time I hated the singular "they" and felt that I was being forced to use what I learned in school to be bad grammar. The fact that a bunch of people tried to change my mind by calling me a homophobe and transphobe (I deny this. I have volunteered a significant amount of my time working towards equal right for the LGBTQ+ community and see no reason why they should be treated differently in any way.) made me dig in my heels even further. I rally felt like I was being bullied. Then they started spreading the accusation on Reddit and Wikipediocracy, so now whenever you Google my name you see me listed as a homophobe.
I honestly thought that avoiding both "him" and "they" and calling the person by their username was a good way to avoid offense. And I was and still am very angry that instead of simply asking me to stop doing that an admin destroyed my perfect record of no blocks. Especally because of what I believe is personal dislike towards me.
One person -- one single person out of the dozens who blasted me -- made an effort to actually discuss the grammar aspect. And they convinced me that I was wrong and that a singular they/them isn't bad grammar! So that's one more reason why I don't think that my behavior regarding prounouns will ever again be seen as problemetic by any admin other than the one who drove me away from being an active contributor.
On a more positive note, it really lifted my spirits being reminded of our friendship and how it had a rocky start. So whatever happens, thank you for that. --Guy Macon (talk) 14:45, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
Count me among those who wish you find a way that works for you to return as that contributor as whom I remember you. ---Sluzzelintalk23:38, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
Sorry to hear about your poor health - get well soon! I also would like to see you editing regularly! Bastun08:06, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
I think that I should return to editing articles about alternate medicine. I think people are being misled and hurt and that I can help. Also, my health issues appear to have stabilized. So I am officially asking for help in overcoming the issues that caused me to mostly stop editing articles.
Here is some background for those who are unfamiliar with the situation. I may be convinced to change my mind later, but for now I do NOT wish to name names, provide diffs, or in any way reopen a dispute from years ago,
I also should mention that I am a high-functioning autistic. This is not in any way an excuse for any behavior, but it might help if anyone wishes to understand the way my mind words.
In 2021 I made a mistake. I took a position on gender pronouns based upon what I was taught in school -- a position that is now unpopular. I tried to maintain my wrong opinion while doing my level best to accommodate others and not cause offense, but it became clear that unless I bent the knee and pretended to agree with something I thought was wrong, the attacks would never stop.
Among all of my attackers, one single person approached me with the attitude of "I also think you are wrong, so let's discuss it and see if I can convince you or you can convince me." The result of that discussion was that I realized that I was the one who was wrong. Actually, factually wrong. What I had been taught about the history of gender pronouns was false. The singular they is far, far older than most people think.
That's when I discovered another nasty truth. No amount of saying "I was wrong" and no amount of apologizing or groveling will ever stop the attacks. Once you express a wrong opinion related to gender you are evil incarnate forever. All the hours you previously put in fighting for equal marriage rights do not matter. You expressed a wrong opinion, and so you are scum for eternity.
In the midst of this I was blocked for a short period by an admin who made several statements indicating that they have a personal animosity towards me. I pretty much withdrew from participating in creating the encyclopedia at that point.
I don't want to publicly criticize of even identify the admin, but if they simply agreed -- without any admission of fault -- to step away and let the other admins handle any bad behavior on my part, I would be willing to resume editing articles. Otherwise, no. It is my belief that I will do something wrong and instead of being asked to stop doing it I will be blocked indefinitely and thus no longer be able to update essays that are important to me such as WP:CANCER, WP:1AM, and WP:YWAB
If someone is willing to act as a mediator between us, I would welcome that. I will not, under any circumstances, directly interact with the admin.
Hi, Guy - great to hear you're doing better! I'd be willing to act as mediator, if you think it'd help. My email is open. Just to note, though, I'm travelling from tomorrow until Tuesday, and won't have proper access to my WP email until I'm back. Bastun12:51, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
Thanks! Please coordinate with EEng. I think that having multiple people on my side will help, as I expect that the multiple people who think I am worse than hitler are likely to weigh in when they get wind that I might come back. :( --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 00:02, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
Hey Guy. As I think I've mentioned before, I don't know the background to whatever it is that happened. But as I've also mentioned before, I'd really like to see you back happily editing. So I'll be watching here for anything I can do to help. Looks like Yngvadottir hasn't edited in 3 or 4 days, so he won't have seen recent posts here, but I'm sure I speak for them as well. EEng07:17, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
I'm nobody but so many people have left recently, it's sad... I wrote on my page a long time ago and it seems more and more true today:
"And I really hate it when good editors feel they have to leave...I mean, I can understand retiring, but I miss so many people who aren't around any more for one reason or another."
Everybody: Guy, I really really want you to come back. Thanks for the pings from you and EEng. I had an accident and am stuck in the hospital. I have just got access to the net using my old laptop. I should not do any mental heavy lifting. I haven't looked up the names involved. I don't want to make anything worse—I didn't bust my head and I am not currently on any interestung drugs, but my mental fighting weight is v. low. So ... once I can get out of this place and be able to use my desktop comp and clear my head, I will have your back as far as I'm able. I remember the part of it where you understood and said you were sorry. And I wanted you to pass that RfA and still trust your judgement, and your integrity. But right now I can't rely on my own judgement, I'm sorry. :-( Yngvadottir (talk) 21:18, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
To all: I think a gentle request to a certain admin asking him to agree -- without ain any way admitting any sourt of fault -- to let other admins handle any misbehavior on my part would be a good place to start. If that doesn't work, I can put together a complete timeline with diffs if any one want to know all of the details. To be clear, I will never again have any interaction with the admin in question and if he blocks me again, I plan on scrambling my password and disapearing from Misplaced Pages rather than fighting a battle I cannot win. --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 20:12, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
In the meantime, here is the problem that led me to the decision that I should be part of the solution:
Eugene Lipov and his partner Jamie Mustard, has been targetting the anti-scientology community with the following claims:
Everybody who leaves the Church of Scientology has PTSD.
Doctor Lipov's Overpriced Magic PTSD shots will fix pretty much any problem these anti-scientologists have.
It's a classic case of an alternative medicine snake oil peddler or one of his followers writing up a friendly Misplaced Pages article on the snake oil.
So if anyone reading this can fix the article or even just least a comment in the NPOVNB discussion, I would really appreciate it.
Several people have remarked that the work I did on the Ayurveda page prevented them from taking "medicine" that contains lead, mercury and arsenic. I think I should get back to doing that sort of work here. --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 21:24, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
OK, Bastun, I guess we're the point of the spear. The first job is to understand exactly what happened. (Maybe you already do -- I don't. Do you?) I've got a short list of links to old discussions and posts which I think will unlock the mystery, but with Thanksgiving and some personal pressures I won't be able to give them any time, and then work with you to formulate a plan, for at least another eleven days. Luckily, there's no hurry (as much as I know we'd like Guy back soon, it has been three years so a little more time won't matter). EEng22:48, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
I won't be available until the first week of 2025 (you would not believe how difficult it has become delivering all those toys to all of those children!) so please hold of on doing anything until then. Thanks! --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 19:11, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
Ho! Ho! Ho! Just say the word when you're ready, then we'll all convene to find a way to make this work. EEng20:05, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
Ye Guy I kinda saw that thing, not the details, but it was horrible. I think I know the one admin you're talking about. He's an ass... ass... assumer of bad faith. I ran into him at ANI when I reported a troll (now blocked of course) and he closed the thread right off and told me to "get on with my life". So that's it, I'm out. I'm not reporting anyone ever again. Let the admins find bad actors themselves.
Make of this what you will
Anyway... come back. You're really good and we could do with you. I miss your graphs for one thing. I was thinking of being like "The graphs guy got chased away, and I can't do graphs like that (few can), but here's a random graph I found which is the best I can do". I guess I better not tho, heh. We've been selecting for humorless drones since the Eternal September and that was long ago. Herostratus (talk) 01:14, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
I was about to post... I've got some serious IRL problems for a few weeks, but my commitment remains firm. EEng05:19, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
I should be ready to pull the trigger by next Monday. Everyone who has commented should expect an email on Friday. --Guy Macon (talk) 17:58, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
Just to be clear, Guy, I'm under INTENSE IRL pressure for the next two to three weeks, so I'd rather defer the coup until after then, if that's all right with you. EEng18:06, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
