User talk:Jimbo Wales: Difference between revisions

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			{{Press
	\|archiveprefix=User talk:Jimbo Wales/Archive
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			\| author = Matthew Gault
	\|age=24
			\| title = Misplaced Pages Editors Very Mad About Jimmy Wales' NFT of a Misplaced Pages Edit
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			\| org = ]
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			\| url = https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjbkvm/wikipedia-editors-very-mad-about-jimmy-waless-nft-of-a-wikipedia-edit
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			\| date = 8 December 2021
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			\| quote = The trouble began when Wales posted an announcement about the auction on his user talk page—a kind of message board where users communicate directly with each other.
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			==]==
	== The problem with developing maths rendering ==
			]

			]
	The standard rendering of mathematics is one of the ugliest parts of wikipedia. Its using a outdated image based system rather than the more modern ] system. See for example the difference between ] with the maths rendering preference option changed from PNG to MathJax. Problems with the image based system include differences in font and font sizes between the main text and equations. There has been some good work developing a new system but they are having problems getting enough attention from foundation staffers to get the code integrated into the code base. It seems most mathematicians don't know enough about the code side to help and coders are not sufficiently interested in the maths to want to help.
			Happy New Year Jimbo!!! I hope all is well with you and your team.

	] wrote about this problem at ]
	: That's my point. It's really not a very pleasant work to break down everything into atomic changes. With the new version of the Math extension that Gabriel Wicke and me developed in September last year MathJax is executed on the server side, which solves the performance problems. The problem with this development was that it changed from the old version to the new one in one step. I turned out that nobody from the foundation would ever find time to do a code review for such a large change. Therefore I had to break down this change into a number of small commits. This is really a lot of useless work and causes some unfortunate side effects. I'd really appreciate if the Foundation could allocate some paid developers to review the changes in the Math extension at once. But it seems that there is no money for the math extension so everything has to be developed and reviewed for free.--] (]) 11:43, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

	Is there anything the foundation can do to help this much needed extension along?--] (]): 13:59, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
	:Very strong support, the Foundation ''should'' be leveraging its (our) resources by doing things like code reviews for ''community developed work'', rather than putting them into schemes which don't necessarily have the backing of the community, and don't necessarily work. All the best, ''] ]'', <small>00:45, 20 April 2014 (UTC).</small><br />

	::It does not send out a good message to the mathematics editing community that so little attention is being paid to this issue. Does the WMF have a plan for mathematics-based text? What resources do you think they should be committing to this requirement? ] (]) 11:21, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

	::(@Rich Farmbrough) This comment nails it. ] (]) 13:10, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

			Could you or your page watchers help me with ]? The draft has been declined and tagged up. It was then deleted years ago. I had it restored today after I came across one of his photos. I think he and his photography are fascinating for capturing aspects of New Zealand's transportation and industrial history. His work is in museum and library collections. At least one of his photographs has been used in a book. He photographed Maori sites.
	=== Corrected numbers in page Formula ===
	I have updated that example page, "]" by adding footnotes to explain the correct volume factors as "33.51" and "0.2833" (rather than 33.47 and 0.2933), as typical content errors when people focus too much on presentation style, as a case of "]". The errors were inserted over 3 years ago (11 April 2011: ). Because of the widespread problems in the factual content of pages, I often downplay the significance of font styles, or {{color\|#BB0000\|'''''red-error messages'''''}}, which tend to cause people to overlook other factual details on a page. In general, when citing an example page (such as "]"), to emphasize the importance of font styles, first be sure the page is free of more-important factual errors, or else beware the ] when the font does not matter in comparison to the severity of the content errors, such as incorrect calculations. -] 10:50, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

			], standing beside a collection of Maori carvings, including two fire-screens, carved by her father Albert Percy Godber]]
	:It's alarming that you think that factual errors (especially insignificant ones like those you corrected) obviate the point of this thread. You may not care about formatting, but that does not mean that no one should. If no one did, we would not even have PNG formulas or LaTeX markup. Instead, you would need to decipher ascii art like in the bad old days of usenet. ] (]) 10:36, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
			I'm sorry I haven't been able to work the draft up enough to get it admitted to mainspace. It does make me wonder about what we do and don't include, our notability criteria, Articles for Creation (AfC) process, and collaborative ethos. Thanks so much for any help or guidance you can offer! Have a great 2025 and beyond. Thanks again. ] (]) 17:57, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
			:If Godber is not ], which is what the draft reviewers say, then Wikipedians can't fix that. ] (]) 09:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
			::] is he "notable" and should we have an entry on him? ] (]) 17:26, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
			:::I dunno, but ] wrote that the draft did not show significant coverage about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject at that point. ] (]) 19:37, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
			]
			::::And this a request to revisit his finding. We have a photographer from more than 100 years ago who documented areas of New Zealand's North Island. We have his work in a National Library collection. We have his work discussed as iconic for one of his Maori related photographs. We have his work revisited in a 2018 exhibition. We have descriptions of him related to his photographs, his career, and we have the photos themselves documenting the areas industries, sites, infrastructure from more than 100 years ago. If I was satisfied with the previous conclusions I would not be here. So I ask again, should we have an entry on this subject? Should we just attribute his photos where we use them to an unlinked name with no explanation or discussion of who he was? I think the answer is clear, and I wanted to hear Jimbo's opinion. I am aware of what was previously stated. Years have passed and I believe it's time to reevaluate and consider. I also think it's worth reflecting on our article creations processes more generally and how we apply our conception of "notability". ] (]) 23:33, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
			*Godber's photographs include "views of the ] including large numbers of cars traveling to ], and the ]. Another group of images relate to a holiday at the ] Homestead in ] with scenes of farm life, including ], ] sheep, and farm buildings. During their stay in the South Island Godber also took photographs of Dunedin (including the ], ], ], the ], and the Hillside Railway Workshops); ] (including the Invercargill Railway Workshops); Stewart Island, ], ], ], ] and ]. Various railway stations in Canterbury and Otago, the ], and the Rosslyn Mills. Godber was a volunteer fireman with the Petone Fire Brigade with the album including views of the building, groups of firemen, fire engines and other fire fighting equipment, and a building in Petone damaged by fire. In his work with New Zealand Railways, mainly at the Petone Railway Workshops, he took interior photographs of various buildings, including the Machine Shop and finishing benches, the engine room, lathes, boilers, and fitting shops. He also took photographs of many of the steam engines that were built and worked on at the workshops. One scene shows a group of men watching a fight. Many images show his interest in logging railways, particularly in the ], ], ] area. Scenes of logging camps, various methods of transporting logs including bullock teams, logging trains, and dams created and then tripped to send logs down by river, and timber mills. Other topics covered in Godber's photographs are scenes at Maori ] and meeting houses, with some of the people identified; Maori carving and rafter designs; beekeeping, and gold mining." ] (]) 23:52, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
			*It's hard to choose which photos to share. Historic views areas, industries, bridges, natural features, railways and bridges, crafts. to his photos on Misplaced Pages Commons. Many already illustrate our entries on various subjects. ] (]) 00:01, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
			:: If you really want to help him, get a couple stories published about him in newspapers. Notability here will follow. ] (]) 01:23, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

			== Just wanted to say ==
	:Wait, you're ? If anything the cosmic joke is on you. ] (]) 10:54, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

			You have created something valuable to everyone on the Internet. I'm sure you get this a lot, but thank you. <br>It may sound weird, but Misplaced Pages has helped me through some tough times. We can never thank you enough for this sometimes infighting, sometimes peaceful, sometimes divided, but always united community You are the backbone of the <s>cabal of editors</s> <b>thriving community</b> that is Misplaced Pages.
	==The "email this user" feature==
			I wish I could give you a BarnMilkyWay but no one's come up with that, apparently. (]) \| (PS: Have a good day) 00:49, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
	Maybe a lurker/stalker would like to answer this question, or maybe Jimbo can when he's back from his (presumably luxurious and decadent) vacation.

			== ==
	Seriously, I would like to know whether emails sent using the "email this user" feature have ''ever'' been read or recorded by anyone without the knowledge of the sender and recipient. I didn't notice this point specifically addressed anywhere already, though I admit to not having looked very carefully.] (]) 18:03, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
	:I have no direct knowledge but I'd expect that if the mail were intercepted as part of a law enforcement investigation, the people involved would not be allowed to say so (although, see ]). Keep in mind also that any warrants might be executed at the upstream email provider rather than at WP, in which case WP probably wouldn't even know about it. And of course ] is supposedly vacuuming all email everywhere. Misplaced Pages's normal practice if I remember is that the system logs that you have sent an email, but not its content or its target address. You're right that this info seems a little bit hard to find. I just looked around briefly and don't see it. ] (]) 20:20, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
	::Thanks for the reply. If there's a warrant issued by a court, then that's one thing, but if anyone at Misplaced Pages or Wikimedia does it, then that's another thing altogether.] (]) 20:25, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
	:::IANAL but I'd imagine that would be dubious enough that you're not likely to get an answer, because of the can of worms it would open. If you mean something like "can Misplaced Pages admins see emails that you send", it's a pretty safe bet that they can't, as it would likely require mucking with the server code or deployment at the WMF developer level. Is there a specific incident that you're suspicious about? If you just want a bit more privacy assurance than the email function provides, your best bet is probably use the email function only to exchange initial contact info with the other person, and then handle further communications offline. ] (]) 22:10, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
	::::By "offline" do you mean outside of Misplaced Pages, or outside of the internet? If emailing outside of Misplaced Pages provides more privacy assurance, then there ought to be a warning when people use "Email this user" saying that people might want to be very circumspect until they can email directly to the other person.] (]) 22:19, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
	:::::Well, former president Carter says he uses snail mail to avoid interception, so if you want to go full tinfoil, don't use the internet or the phone. I don't have reason to think Special:EmailUser is particularly worse than typical direct email with no special precautions. It appears to just collect the message and dump it into an smtp library (after calling some unknown hooks, though), which seems straightforward enough. But, most people probably don't bother using the TLS version of the email page so the message would reach the server in the clear; either participant's email system might also not use TLS; the WP TLS pages don't have forward secrecy and were vulnerable to the Heartbleed bug; the other person could be careless about what you tell him or her; email archived on a server (hello gmail) apparently has less legal protection than email in transit (, again IANAL); etc. etc. etc. Your best bet is encrypt your messages with something like ]. An intermediate measure might be for both people to use the same webmail provider with a TLS web client, so the messages are less likely to travel over the public internet other than from browsers. This wider discussion of email privacy probably doesn't belong on Jimbo's talk page. ] might be a better venue. ] (]) 23:01, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
	:::::::I'm just saying that if neither Jimbo nor anyone else at Misplaced Pages/Wikimedia would ever stoop to reading or recording messages that go through "Email this user", then why not say so to people using that function? Something like, "we treat your emails as totally private". Instead, people who go to "Email this user" are ominously told: "'''''Misplaced Pages makes no guarantee of confidentiality for messages sent by this system.'''''" Is Misplaced Pages allowing itself to read or record these emails? That's all I'm asking, and it's a perfectly straightforward and legitimate question to ask here, not into tinfoil-hat territory at all.] (]) 23:12, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
	::::::::I think that's just a disclaimer that WP isn't trying to provide a secure user to user communication infrastructure, and probably to give them some leeway to check what's going on if someone abuses the email function such as to send spam. If you're worried about someone at WP intercepting private email to win some stupid wiki-editing dispute, that seems farfetched to me. WMF has historically been pretty conservative about logging, e.g. there's stuff they don't log that could make checkuser more effective if they decided to do so. Email interception would be several steps beyond that. ] (]) 00:01, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
	:::::::::Plus, there's the fact that once a user hits send, the message leaves Misplaced Pages's hands. We can't guarantee that an email won't be intercepted by a third party or monitored by the recipient's ISP or email provider. ] <sup>]</sup> 00:09, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
	::::::::::I expect that you're both probably correct and there's nothing to worry about. But, that seems all the more reason to provide some assurance that ''Misplaced Pages'' and ''Wikimedia'' won't interfere with the privacy of this communication system, after saying "'''''Misplaced Pages makes no guarantee of confidentiality for messages sent by this system.'''''"] (]) 00:22, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
	::::::::::::The Privacy Policy is what you want. At a technical level the source code for Mediawiki is available, and I would imagine simply opens an SMTP connection to some mailserver. The disclaimer is typical lawyer nonsense, no-one has any reasonable expectation that WMF can control the privacy of the global email system, and conversely no disclaimer absolves it from being negligent within the WMF infrastructure. All the best, ''] ]'', <small>00:52, 20 April 2014 (UTC).</small><br />
	:::::::::::::Special:Emailuser () is a wrapper for UserMailer.php (). ]: "This module performs a direct (authenticated) login to a SMTP Server to use for mail relaying if 'wgSMTP' specifies an array of parameters. It requires PEAR:Mail to do that. Otherwise it just uses the standard PHP 'mail' function." — ] <span style="color:#900">•</span> ] 00:59, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
	{{od}} To be finicky, the ] specifically exempts the user email feature (see the part about "what the privacy policy does not cover"). SpecialEmailUser.php wraps UserMailer.php but it also calls some hooks that are part of the site configuration, so I don't know how to tell what actually happnens on the servers (those hooks are probably the logical place to put any interception in case of something like an abuse investigation). Overall I'd treat it about the same way as the PM system of a message board, and not send anything super secret through it, but otherwise not worry too much for normal traffic. As someone once said, WP is not a Swiss bank. ] (]) 01:45, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
	::The privacy policy that you point to says (emphasis added): "We provide several tools that allow users to communicate with each other. The communications '''''may''''' be covered by this Policy while they pass through our systems...." May?] (]) 02:00, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
	:::Oh, I see what you mean, I mis-read it, it's not an exclusion. It says that if you email private info to someone, then the privacy policy doesn't cover what the other person does with the info. "May" is ambiguous and the sentence comes across to me as "it doesn't much help if the privacy policy covers the info, if the other person discloses it". ] (]) 02:26, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
	If you email anyone (in whatever way), you are living in a fantasy world if you think that that is private... NSA captures all email traffic entering and leaving the country and as such Wikimedia cannot guarantee the confidentiality. Any of the dozen or so parties between Wikimedia and the recipient can do the same. Wikimedia knows this, and that's why they are explaining it to you. —] (] • ]) 10:31, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
	::I don't care if the dozen or so parties between Wikimedia and the recipient read the email. I care if Wikimedia reads the email. After all, the email will be pretty much irrelevant to all of them except Wikimedia.] (]) 01:29, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

			For the interested. ] (]) 10:58, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
	== Vacation reminder again ==
	This is another note about Jimbo on vacation until late April. See above: ]. Hence, other users will need to answer questions here, or link any related responses which Jimbo stated in prior discussions. -] 11:07, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

			:Summary: {{tq\|This document intends to show the problematic situation in Hebrew Misplaced Pages (hewiki), and provide evidence that it has been overtaken by a group of mostly religious and nationalist editors, who prevent others from achieving higher permissions while promoting their own allies.}} –] <small>(])</small> 22:38, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
	== Is Jimbo still active? ==

			== Happy new year ==
	Does Jimmy Wales still actively edit on Misplaced Pages or are all edits under his name done by the Wikipedians which he entrusted to handle his talk page?] (]) 14:06, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

			Good days, Jimbo. I'd like to say that Chinese Misplaced Pages is introducing ARBCOM System currently, since Arbcom on this project, and in fact all the project is originated from the idea of yours, do you have any opinion for that? Any hints, advice or suggestions? ] 15:43, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
	:Edits from the Jimbo Wales account are made by ]. There's never been any credible suggestion that anyone else uses the account. --] (]) 14:09, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

			== ==
	::Thanks for confirming, that notice at the top confused me a bit. Cool to know the founder still improves the site's content.] (]) 14:41, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

			That doesn't sound good. From '']''. ] (]) 09:37, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
	:::The notice at the top simply means that his talk page is watched by a great many users, who may step in to answer questions before he can get to them. ] <sup>]</sup> 18:14, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

			:Being discussed at ]. ] (]) 10:08, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
	:Yes I edit content. From time to time I take up a new project to plod along on. My current one is this: I have set up a link in my browser to inspired by projects to improve our poor coverage of female authors. Now and again I click it and look for something I can improve in some small way.--] (]) 19:52, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
	::~~{{reply to\|Nathan121212}} - It's very cool. And we love~~ ] ~~for~~ ~~it! ] (]) 14:40, 21 ~~April~~ ~~2014~~ (UTC)~~		::Thanks! ] (]) 11:11, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
			::Also discussed at ] and ]. ] (]) 19:07, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
	::: What a clever idea. Thanks for this, Mr. Wales. ] (]) 14:58, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

			Jimbo, could I ask you please to respond to from {{u\|Tryptofish}}?
	== URLs ending in period cause issues when copied to clients such as email ==
			:... it's not just if you've edited about Israel-Palestine. It could be if you've edited anything about climate and fossil fuels, gender, immigration, vaccines, and of course, American politics. I doubt that they have the bandwidth to actually identify and harass every editor who could possibly be seen as editing information that goes against a MAGA POV, but they will likely find some easily identified targets, whom they will use to "set an example", as a way of instilling fear in our editing community. I fully expect that, in the coming months, {{u\|Jimbo Wales}} will be hauled before a hostile and performative Congressional hearing, much in the manner of university presidents. I hope very much that he will be better prepared than ] was.
			:Yeah, I know this is grim. But I believe the first step in dealing with this is to go into it with our eyes open, to know what we are dealing with, what motivates it. And, more than harming individual editors, the real objective of Heritage ''et al.'' is to instill fear in the rest of us. If we become too fearful to revert POV edits, they win. In a very real sense, we have to keep doing what we have been doing, and continue to be a reliable resource for NPOV information. --] (]) 18:54, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
			] (]) 05:33, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

			:Well, I fully agree that developments in terms of arguments and actions aimed at destroying trust in knowledge (and of course our specific interest, trust in Misplaced Pages) are extremely worrisome, particularly as I agree that for many who are doing it, the motive does appears to be the undermining of civic norms and democracy. I also agree with Tryptofish in a part that you didn't quote: "In a narrow sense, it's technically true that if you "out" yourself, there's no point in anyone else doing it. But once your identity is known, you become vulnerable to all of the kinds of real-life harassment that doxed people find themselves subjected to. It doesn't matter, in that regard, how they found out your identity." That's a sad balancing act that no Wikipedian should have to face.
	Per twitter convo (as @mwiik) w/@jimmy_wales, alerting folks to issue with URLs ending in period. An issue arises when such URLs are copied to clients such as email or twitter. Clients typically link such URLs but remove the ending period, thus causing the link not to be found. I do not know the full list of clients affected, but since this seems quite reasonable client behavior, I suggest a fix on wikipedia's end.
			:As a side note, I don't think that the reliability of the Heritage Foundation as a source is particularly related to these despicable actions. Whether they should be considered a reliable source in some matters is really unrelated to whether they hate us or not.--] (]) 14:14, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
			::Suddenly ] going to court to get user-data seems like the model of gentlemanly behavior. ] (]) 11:51, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
			:::{{tq\|That's a sad balancing act that no Wikipedian should have to face.}} Unfortunately, the scales have been inexorably slipping out from beneath the foundation's abilities or willingness to protect its volunteers for my entire wiki-career. There's no balancing force at work. The private equity community has made gadflies out of what we used to label reliable local news media; Alphabet and Meta are actively coopting precision, privacy, and the public domain, while attempting to minimize the effectiveness of good faith actors like Internet Archive. Now suddenly en.wikipedians are facing the sort of personal threats long experienced by volunteers at ru.wiki and zh.wiki. The forces now arrayed against free information don't need to be actively coordinating in order to rapidly bring us to 2+2=5 territory. Any established editor could reasonably see Western culture has been under relentless attack for a long time. Here comes the Heritage Foundation's leaks, hot off Heritage's bangup release of Project 2025, leaking articles through partisan outlets apparently intended to make it appear (in one case) the ADL's recent reliability downgrade at RSNP was anyone else's fault but the ADL's own writings and actions. The news of such activity appears to threaten the community members directly and personally. ] (]) 13:26, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

			== ] ==
	I first noticed this on SCOTUS cases, and surveyed such cases within wikipedia, obtaining the following list of 156 URLs. I do not claim this list is 100% complete and of course there may be other pages not pertaining to SCOTUS cases that may be affected.

			Hey Mr. Wales, there's a discussion on ] about what image should be used on your Misplaced Pages entry. Figured you may want to chime in with personal opinion about the recent freely-licensed images of you that are presented, as there hasn't been much engagement there at the time of my post. <span style="background: cornsilk; padding: 3px;border:.5px solid salmon;">]]</span> 21:32, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
	Here is the list of 156 SCOTUS cases from my survey. Unfortunately, the wikipedia server (or editor) also doesn't include the final period in a raw URL, so all the below links will not work as they are, you must add a period to the end.<small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 19:33, 20 April 2014 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	{{cot\|List of URLs}}
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Willson_v._Black-Bird_Creek_Marsh_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/City_of_Elizabeth_v._American_Nicholson_Pavement_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Baylis_v._Travellers%27_Ins._Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/United_States_v._E._C._Knight_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Pollock_v._Farmers%27_Loan_%26_Trust_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Interstate_Commerce_Commission_v._Cincinnati,_New_Orleans_and_Texas_Pacific_Railway_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Huus_v._New_York_%26_Porto_Rico_S.S._Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Continental_Paper_Bag_Co._v._Eastern_Paper_Bag_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Flint_v._Stone_Tracy_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Gompers_v._Buck%27s_Stove_and_Range_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Stanton_v._Baltic_Mining_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Georgia,_Florida,_%26_Alabama_Railway_Co._v._Blish_Milling_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/American_Well_Works_Co._v._Layne_%26_Bowler_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Smith_v._Kansas_City_Title_%26_Trust_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Rooker_v._Fidelity_Trust_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Bowers_v._Kerbaugh-Empire_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Village_of_Euclid,_Ohio_v._Ambler_Realty_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/United_States_v._General_Electric_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Black_and_White_Taxicab_Co._v._Brown_and_Yellow_Taxicab_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/United_States_v._Kirby_Lumber_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Grosjean_v._American_Press_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Bourdieu_v._Pacific_Western_Oil_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/United_States_v._Curtiss-Wright_Export_Corp. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/New_Negro_Alliance_v._Sanitary_Grocery_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/United_States_v._Carolene_Products_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/NLRB_v._Mackay_Radio_%26_Telegraph_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Collins_v._Yosemite_Park_%26_Curry_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Kellogg_Co._v._National_Biscuit_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Railroad_Commission_v._Pullman_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/United_States_v._Darby_Lumber_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/United_States_v._Univis_Lens_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Burford_v._Sun_Oil_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Skidmore_v._Swift_%26_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/United_States_v._Willow_River_Power_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/United_States_v._Detroit_%26_Cleveland_Nav._Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Securities_and_Exchange_Commission_v._W._J._Howey_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Anderson_v._Mt._Clemens_Pottery_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Sipuel_v._Board_of_Regents_of_Univ._of_Okla. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Woods_v._Cloyd_W._Miller_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/United_States_v._National_City_Lines_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Mullane_v._Central_Hanover_Bank_%26_Trust_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Graver_Tank_%26_Manufacturing_Co._v._Linde_Air_Products_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Kiefer-Stewart_Co._v._Seagram_%26_Sons,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Perkins_v._Benguet_Mining_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Securities_and_Exchange_Commission_v._Ralston_Purina_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Commissioner_v._Glenshaw_Glass_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/United_Gas_Pipe_Line_Co._v._Mobile_Gas_Service_Corp. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Federal_Power_Commission_v._Sierra_Pacific_Power_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/McGee_v._International_Life_Insurance_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Byrd_v._Blue_Ridge_Rural_Electric_Cooperative,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Aro_Mfg._Co._v._Convertible_Top_Replacement_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Gallagher_v._Crown_Kosher_Super_Market_of_Massachusetts,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Jarecki_v._G.D._Searle_%26_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/United_Gas_Pipe_Line_Co._v._Ideal_Cement_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Compco_Corp._v._Day-Brite_Lighting,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Sears,_Roebuck_%26_Co._v._Stiffel_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/United_States_v._Continental_Can_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Graham_v._John_Deere_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Federal_Trade_Commission_v._Dean_Foods_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Prima_Paint_Corp._v._Flood_%26_Conklin_Mfg._Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/United_States_v._Southwestern_Cable_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Anderson%27s-Black_Rock,_Inc._v._Pavement_Salvage_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Federal_Trade_Commission_v._Sperry_%26_Hutchinson_Trading_Stamp_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Commissioner_v._First_Security_Bank_of_Utah,_N.A. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/United_States_v._Glaxo_Group_Ltd. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/United_States_v._Florida_East_Coast_Railway_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Espinoza_v._Farah_Mfg._Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/North_Dakota_State_Board_of_Pharmacy_v._Snyder%27s_Drug_Stores,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Commissioner_v._Idaho_Power_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Gertz_v._Robert_Welch,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/NLRB_v._J._Weingarten,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Hughes_v._Alexandria_Scrap_Corp. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Arlington_Heights_v._Metropolitan_Housing_Corp. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Zacchini_v._Scripps-Howard_Broadcasting_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Vermont_Yankee_Nuclear_Power_Corp._v._Natural_Resources_Defense_Council,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Marquette_Nat._Bank_of_Minneapolis_v._First_of_Omaha_Service_Corp. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Walker_v._Armco_Steel_Corp. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Minnesota_v._Clover_Leaf_Creamery_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Diamond,_Commissioner_of_Patents_and_Trademarks_v._Diehr_et_al. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Kassel_v._Consolidated_Freightways_Corp. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Hoffman_Estates_v._The_Flipside,_Hoffman_Estates,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/American_Society_Of_Mechanical_Engineers_v._Hydrolevel_Corp. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Loretto_v._Teleprompter_Manhattan_CATV_Corp. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/NAACP_v._Claiborne_Hardware_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Moses_H._Cone_Memorial_Hospital_v._Mercury_Constr._Corp. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/United_States_v._Sells_Engineering,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Bose_Corp._v._Consumers_Union_of_United_States,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Clark_v._C.C.N.V. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/New_Jersey_v._T._L._O. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Brockett_v._Spokane_Arcades,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Aspen_Skiing_Co._v._Aspen_Highlands_Skiing_Corp. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Dun_%26_Bradstreet,_Inc._v._Greenmoss_Builders,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/City_of_Cleburne_v._Cleburne_Living_Center,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Mitsubishi_Motors_Corp._v._Soler_Chrysler-Plymouth,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Board_of_Airport_Commissioners_of_Los_Angeles_v._Jews_for_Jesus,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/City_of_Richmond_v._J.A._Croson_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Bonito_Boats,_Inc._v._Thunder_Craft_Boats,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Lauro_Lines_s.r.l._v._Chasser_et_al. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Commissioner_v._Indianapolis_Power_%26_Light_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Eli_Lilly_%26_Co._v._Medtronic,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Milkovich_v._Lorain_Journal_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Oklahoma_Tax_Comm%27n_v._Citizen_Band_of_Potawatomi_Tribe_of_Okla. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Feist_Publications_v._Rural_Telephone_Service_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Barnes_v._Glen_Theatre,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Cohen_v._Cowles_Media_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Wisconsin_Department_of_Revenue_v._William_Wrigley,_Jr.,_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Cincinnati_v._Discovery_Network,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Campbell_v._Acuff-Rose_Music,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Oregon_Waste_Systems,_Inc._v._Department_of_Environmental_Quality_of_Ore. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/J.E.B._v._Alabama_ex_rel._T.B. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Madsen_v._Women%27s_Health_Center,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/United_States_v._X-Citement_Video,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Qualitex_Co._v._Jacobson_Products_Co.,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Plaut_v._Spendthrift_Farm,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Florida_Bar_v._Went_For_It,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Lotus_Dev._Corp._v._Borland_Int%27l,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Markman_v._Westview_Instruments,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Gasperini_v._Center_For_Humanities,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/M.L.B._v._S.L.J. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Warner-Jenkinson_Company,_Inc._v._Hilton_Davis_Chemical_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Quality_King_Distributors_Inc.,_v._L%27anza_Research_International_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Feltner_v._Columbia_Pictures_Television,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Kiowa_Tribe_of_Okla._v._Manufacturing_Technologies,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Marquez_v._Screen_Actors_Guild_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Pfaff_v._Wells_Electronics,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Olmstead_v._L.C. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Friends_of_the_Earth,_Inc._v._Laidlaw_Environmental_Services,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/FDA_v._Brown_%26_Williamson_Tobacco_Corp. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Whitman_v._American_Trucking_Associations,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Semtek_International_Inc._v._Lockheed_Martin_Corp. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/TrafFix_Devices,_Inc._v._Marketing_Displays,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/C_%26_L_Enterprises,_Inc._v._Citizen_Band_Potawatomi_Tribe_of_Okla. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Cooper_Industries_v._Leatherman_Tool_Group,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/United_States_v._Mead_Corp. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Barnhart_v._Peabody_Coal_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Moseley_v._V_Secret_Catalogue,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Dastar_Corp._v._Twentieth_Century_Fox_Film_Corp. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Intel_Corp._v._Advanced_Micro_Devices,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/City_of_Sherrill_v._Oneida_Indian_Nation_of_N._Y. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Exxon_Mobil_Corp._v._Saudi_Basic_Industries_Corp. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Spector_v._Norwegian_Cruise_Line_Ltd. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Merck_v._Integra <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/MGM_Studios,_Inc._v._Grokster,_Ltd. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Illinois_Tool_Works,_Inc._v._Independent_Ink,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Sereboff_v._Mid_Atlantic_Medical_Services,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/EBay_Inc._v._MercExchange,_L.L.C. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Anza_v._Ideal_Steel_Supply_Corp. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Medimmune,_Inc._v._Genentech,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Ledbetter_v._Goodyear_Tire_%26_Rubber_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Federal_Election_Commission_v._Wisconsin_Right_to_Life,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Leegin_Creative_Leather_Products,_Inc._v._PSKS,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Riegel_v._Medtronic,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Caperton_v._A._T._Massey_Coal_Co. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Kirtsaeng_v._John_Wiley_%26_Sons,_Inc. <br />
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Kiobel_v._Royal_Dutch_Petroleum_Co.
	{{cob}}
	:With apologies for refactoring your comment, ], I've collapsed the list of URLs for readability. It seems like that simplest solution would be to create redirects on the pages without periods to point to the correct ones. Some of the cases listed above already have such redirects. ] <sup>]</sup> 20:13, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
	::Yes, that seems appropriate. They should be tagged with {{tl\|R from modification}} when doing so. It's probably also worth making a note of this somewhere - at the MOS for article naming perhaps? — ] <span style="color:#900">•</span> ] 15:24, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 21:32, 14 January 2025

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Albert Percy Godber

Happy New Year Jimbo!!! I hope all is well with you and your team.

Could you or your page watchers help me with Draft:Albert Percy Godber? The draft has been declined and tagged up. It was then deleted years ago. I had it restored today after I came across one of his photos. I think he and his photography are fascinating for capturing aspects of New Zealand's transportation and industrial history. His work is in museum and library collections. At least one of his photographs has been used in a book. He photographed Maori sites.

I'm sorry I haven't been able to work the draft up enough to get it admitted to mainspace. It does make me wonder about what we do and don't include, our notability criteria, Articles for Creation (AfC) process, and collaborative ethos. Thanks so much for any help or guidance you can offer! Have a great 2025 and beyond. Thanks again. FloridaArmy (talk) 17:57, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

If Godber is not WP:NOTABLE, which is what the draft reviewers say, then Wikipedians can't fix that. Polygnotus (talk) 09:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

user:Polygnotus is he "notable" and should we have an entry on him? FloridaArmy (talk) 17:26, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

I dunno, but User:Sulfurboy wrote that the draft did not show significant coverage about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject at that point. Polygnotus (talk) 19:37, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

And this a request to revisit his finding. We have a photographer from more than 100 years ago who documented areas of New Zealand's North Island. We have his work in a National Library collection. We have his work discussed as iconic for one of his Maori related photographs. We have his work revisited in a 2018 exhibition. We have descriptions of him related to his photographs, his career, and we have the photos themselves documenting the areas industries, sites, infrastructure from more than 100 years ago. If I was satisfied with the previous conclusions I would not be here. So I ask again, should we have an entry on this subject? Should we just attribute his photos where we use them to an unlinked name with no explanation or discussion of who he was? I think the answer is clear, and I wanted to hear Jimbo's opinion. I am aware of what was previously stated. Years have passed and I believe it's time to reevaluate and consider. I also think it's worth reflecting on our article creations processes more generally and how we apply our conception of "notability". FloridaArmy (talk) 23:33, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Godber's photographs include "views of the Hutt Valley including large numbers of cars traveling to Trentham Racecourse, and the Hutt River. Another group of images relate to a holiday at the Mendip Hills Homestead in Canterbury, New Zealand with scenes of farm life, including haymaking, merino sheep, and farm buildings. During their stay in the South Island Godber also took photographs of Dunedin (including the Ross Reservoir, Otago Boys' High School, Seacliff Mental Hospital, the 1926 Dunedin Exhibition, and the Hillside Railway Workshops); Invercargill (including the Invercargill Railway Workshops); Stewart Island, Moeraki, Tuatapere, Waiau River, Oamaru and Port Chalmers. Various railway stations in Canterbury and Otago, the Burnside Iron Mills, and the Rosslyn Mills. Godber was a volunteer fireman with the Petone Fire Brigade with the album including views of the building, groups of firemen, fire engines and other fire fighting equipment, and a building in Petone damaged by fire. In his work with New Zealand Railways, mainly at the Petone Railway Workshops, he took interior photographs of various buildings, including the Machine Shop and finishing benches, the engine room, lathes, boilers, and fitting shops. He also took photographs of many of the steam engines that were built and worked on at the workshops. One scene shows a group of men watching a fight. Many images show his interest in logging railways, particularly in the Piha, Karekare, Anawhata area. Scenes of logging camps, various methods of transporting logs including bullock teams, logging trains, and dams created and then tripped to send logs down by river, and timber mills. Other topics covered in Godber's photographs are scenes at Maori marae and meeting houses, with some of the people identified; Maori carving and rafter designs; beekeeping, and gold mining." FloridaArmy (talk) 23:52, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
It's hard to choose which photos to share. Historic views areas, industries, bridges, natural features, railways and bridges, crafts. Here's a link to his photos on Misplaced Pages Commons. Many already illustrate our entries on various subjects. FloridaArmy (talk) 00:01, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

If you really want to help him, get a couple stories published about him in newspapers. Notability here will follow. Carrite (talk) 01:23, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

Just wanted to say

You have created something valuable to everyone on the Internet. I'm sure you get this a lot, but thank you.
It may sound weird, but Misplaced Pages has helped me through some tough times. We can never thank you enough for this sometimes infighting, sometimes peaceful, sometimes divided, but always united community You are the backbone of the ~~cabal of editors~~ thriving community that is Misplaced Pages. I wish I could give you a BarnMilkyWay but no one's come up with that, apparently. (3OpenEyes's talk page. Say hi!) | (PS: Have a good day) 00:49, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Requests for comment/Severe Problems in hewiki

For the interested. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:58, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Summary: This document intends to show the problematic situation in Hebrew Misplaced Pages (hewiki), and provide evidence that it has been overtaken by a group of mostly religious and nationalist editors, who prevent others from achieving higher permissions while promoting their own allies. –Novem Linguae (talk) 22:38, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Happy new year

Good days, Jimbo. I'd like to say that Chinese Misplaced Pages is introducing ARBCOM System currently, since Arbcom on this project, and in fact all the project is originated from the idea of yours, do you have any opinion for that? Any hints, advice or suggestions? -Lemonaka 15:43, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Scoop: Heritage Foundation plans to ‘identify and target’ Misplaced Pages editors

That doesn't sound good. From The Forward. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:37, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Being discussed at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (miscellaneous)#Heritage Foundation intending to "identify and target" editors. CMD (talk) 10:08, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:11, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Also discussed at Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5/Evidence#Edit_request and Misplaced Pages:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Heritage_Foundation_planning_to_dox_Wikipedia_editors. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:07, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Jimbo, could I ask you please to respond to these concerns from Tryptofish?

... it's not just if you've edited about Israel-Palestine. It could be if you've edited anything about climate and fossil fuels, gender, immigration, vaccines, and of course, American politics. I doubt that they have the bandwidth to actually identify and harass every editor who could possibly be seen as editing information that goes against a MAGA POV, but they will likely find some easily identified targets, whom they will use to "set an example", as a way of instilling fear in our editing community. I fully expect that, in the coming months, Jimbo Wales will be hauled before a hostile and performative Congressional hearing, much in the manner of university presidents. I hope very much that he will be better prepared than Claudine Gay was.

Yeah, I know this is grim. But I believe the first step in dealing with this is to go into it with our eyes open, to know what we are dealing with, what motivates it. And, more than harming individual editors, the real objective of Heritage et al. is to instill fear in the rest of us. If we become too fearful to revert POV edits, they win. In a very real sense, we have to keep doing what we have been doing, and continue to be a reliable resource for NPOV information. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:54, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Sita Bose (talk) 05:33, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

Well, I fully agree that developments in terms of arguments and actions aimed at destroying trust in knowledge (and of course our specific interest, trust in Misplaced Pages) are extremely worrisome, particularly as I agree that for many who are doing it, the motive does appears to be the undermining of civic norms and democracy. I also agree with Tryptofish in a part that you didn't quote: "In a narrow sense, it's technically true that if you "out" yourself, there's no point in anyone else doing it. But once your identity is known, you become vulnerable to all of the kinds of real-life harassment that doxed people find themselves subjected to. It doesn't matter, in that regard, how they found out your identity." That's a sad balancing act that no Wikipedian should have to face.

As a side note, I don't think that the reliability of the Heritage Foundation as a source is particularly related to these despicable actions. Whether they should be considered a reliable source in some matters is really unrelated to whether they hate us or not.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:14, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

Suddenly ANI going to court to get user-data seems like the model of gentlemanly behavior. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:51, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

That's a sad balancing act that no Wikipedian should have to face. Unfortunately, the scales have been inexorably slipping out from beneath the foundation's abilities or willingness to protect its volunteers for my entire wiki-career. There's no balancing force at work. The private equity community has made gadflies out of what we used to label reliable local news media; Alphabet and Meta are actively coopting precision, privacy, and the public domain, while attempting to minimize the effectiveness of good faith actors like Internet Archive. Now suddenly en.wikipedians are facing the sort of personal threats long experienced by volunteers at ru.wiki and zh.wiki. The forces now arrayed against free information don't need to be actively coordinating in order to rapidly bring us to 2+2=5 territory. Any established editor could reasonably see Western culture has been under relentless attack for a long time. Here comes the Heritage Foundation's leaks, hot off Heritage's bangup release of Project 2025, leaking articles through partisan outlets apparently intended to make it appear (in one case) the ADL's recent reliability downgrade at RSNP was anyone else's fault but the ADL's own writings and actions. The news of such activity appears to threaten the community members directly and personally. BusterD (talk) 13:26, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Jimmy_Wales#Newer_2024_image?

Hey Mr. Wales, there's a discussion on Talk:Jimmy_Wales#Newer_2024_image? about what image should be used on your Misplaced Pages entry. Figured you may want to chime in with personal opinion about the recent freely-licensed images of you that are presented, as there hasn't been much engagement there at the time of my post. Barnt Toust 21:32, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

Category:

Misplaced Pages pages referenced by the press