| Revision as of 11:16, 18 September 2014 editThe Gnome (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers19,401 edits →Survey← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 18:48, 17 December 2024 edit undoShearonink (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers41,383 edits The B-Class rating was posted in August 2014. This "GAList" template seems misplaced and serves no real purpose keeping it ensconced within the talk page headers forever and ever. This Review has been moved to the Archive page 12. |
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{{ITN talk|August 12|2014|oldid=620856871}} |
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{{WikiProject Biography|living=no|class=B|listas=Williams, Robin|filmbio-work-group=y|filmbio-priority=High}} |
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#It is '''suitably referenced, with in-line citation''': {{GAList/check|y}} |
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#It '''reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain obvious holes''': {{GAList/check|y}} |
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{{Top 25 Report|Aug 10 2014 (1st)|Aug 17 2014 (3rd)|Aug 24 2014 (9th)}} |
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#It '''presents its content in an appropriately understandable way''': {{GAList/check|y}} |
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#'''Overall''' ''Pass/Fail'' {{GAList/check|y}} |
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== Not to be confused with... == |
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== Williams' children == |
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Can somenone tell me why are the names of the children are being removed and what is being achieved by removing their names. What do the name of the children have to do with Robin's death? Robin Williams was not a victim of a horrible crime. So there's no policy that justifies removing the names of the children. Including the names of children will not have any "bad effect" on them or victimise them in any way. Oh and by the way I especially wonder why the names have only been removed from the infobox. ] (]) 13:14, 21 August 2014 (UTC) |
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:You'll want to search this talk page archive but basically, there's not enough room to include them all and there's a clear TOC entry that a reader wanting to read it can find more. It doesn't help they come from difference marriages, as it makes it complexicated to give even a simply entry. So it was decided to leave it as "3" and have people refer to the body to learn more. --] (]) 13:27, 21 August 2014 (UTC) |
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::There has not been a consensus on the matter, nor a reason to remove the daughter (who is notable) from the infobox. ] (]) 16:43, 22 August 2014 (UTC) |
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:::Completely right. There has been no consensus. There is no need to remove the name of any child until there is a consensus. ] (]) 07:00, 25 August 2014 (UTC) |
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::::Per ], it says '''"Number of children (e.g. three or 3), or list of names if notable. For privacy reasons, consider omitting the names of children of living persons, unless the children are independently notable."''', which is daughter ] is independently notable as she has her own wikipedia article and can go in his infobox. <small><span style="text-shadow:4px 4px 15px #08F,-4px -4px 15px #8F0;">]</span> • <span style="text-shadow:4px 4px 15px #F80,-4px -4px 15px #F08;">]</span></small> 11:47, 25 August 2014 (UTC) |
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:::::Since his death it has bounced all over the place and no consensus has been reached even though on one occasion all three children were added and that was corrected by ] on 15:43, 12 August 2014 and no one seemed to have a problem with it at the time. Only in the last few days has there been an issue with notable children and that was taken off even though discussions were still ongoing. I had referred to Williams’ ex-wife’s page as an example as the same child was listed in her infobox and now she has both children listed. Obviously it is an editorial dispute causing the issue not common sense.--] (]) 20:07, 25 August 2014 (UTC) |
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::::::Well since Zelda is noticeable I will insert her name. Although I don't know how it should be inserted. Should I write it as '''3 incl. Zelda Rae Williams''' or should I use some other format? ] (]) 04:58, 27 August 2014 (UTC) |
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:::::::Better to leave it as 3. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">] ]</span> 05:02, 27 August 2014 (UTC) |
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::::::::There is nothing wrong in inserting Zelda's name. I am going to add it since it's not against any policy. Also ], I don't want to beat a dead horse but before giving advice to me you should learn not to remove other's comment just because someone speaks against you like you did at your talk page. Such edits are not constructive. ] (]) 11:48, 28 August 2014 (UTC) |
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:::::::::This discussion has happened before - if you add Zelda, then the other names should be added. If you add any child's name, then you should be added which marriage it was from. This all bloats the infobox. Yes, there is nothing MOS related that prevents the addition of Zelda's name, but it is editorially better to leave it out and let the prose discuss the details of his children. --] (]) 13:41, 28 August 2014 (UTC) |
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{{od}}Per this discussion, I have changed it back to "3". As it should be. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">] ]</span> 17:34, 28 August 2014 (UTC) |
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:Stop enforcing your opinion. Was there any consensus? No there wasn't. It doesn't matter whether there was a discussion or not. What matters if there was a consensus or not. Winklevi, your admin rights should be revoked. ] (]) 15:07, 29 August 2014 (UTC) |
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:::admin rights?????? ] (]) 15:14, 29 August 2014 (UTC) |
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::There was consensus. Additionally, while adding it back once is bold, adding it back in twice when discussion is going on is edit warring. --] (]) 15:10, 29 August 2014 (UTC) |
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:::The please show me where the consensus is. Your actually lying Masem because I've searched the archives and found out a consensus never happened. It was only you and Winklevi who kept saying that the names of the children should not be added. But still i think we can have a consensus now. And I think that a wide community consensus is better suited for this thing. ] (]) 13:26, 30 August 2014 (UTC) |
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::::, because as soon as people tried to add the one notable one (Zelda), others tried to add the other two (Whose identities are public knowledge), and thus made edit wars of this page. Leaving them all out is the better solution to prevent more being added. --] (]) 13:44, 30 August 2014 (UTC) |
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:::::I agree. ] (]) 22:24, 30 August 2014 (UTC) |
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::::::There are many articles who have edit wars. I'm no stranger to edit wars as I've myself seen many articles where Disruptive editors keep adding an information back even though the reason it's been removed was valid. They keep doing it no matter how many times you explain to them,. But not entering the name of Zelda Williams just because of the risk of an edit war is stupid. ] (]) 09:26, 2 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:::::::That isn't why it's being removed. The reasons why have been outlined for you here. Consensus is to keep it out and the reasons why that consensus was reached are sound. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">] ]</span> 16:57, 2 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::::::::There was never any consensus. I have searched the archives high and low and there was never any consensus about Williams' children. We should hold a RfC on this matter. That will be a good solution. 04:59, 13 September 2014 (UTC)] (]) |
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== death in lead == |
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is it necessary to put his death info in the lead? i don't often see that in other articles. ] (]) 05:44, 2 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:], it depends on the circumstances. - ] (]) 06:56, 2 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:His death was notable, widely reported. So, yes. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">] ]</span> 07:36, 2 September 2014 (UTC) |
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The last line in the death said "His body was cremated and his ashes scattered in San Francisco Bay on August 12." That looks wrong for the time frame that he dead on the 11th and the "initial report released on August 12, the Marin County Sheriff's Office" and was cremated in the same day and scattered? (cremation takes 12 plus hours). My be it should say "His body was cremated and his ashes scattered in San Francisco Bay." The note has no date of August 12 but was posted by CNN on August 22. (had to post before I forgot) <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 05:38, 16 September 2014 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:{{fixed}} --] (]) 06:00, 16 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::Death certificate makes clear that ashes were scattered on 12 August . ] (]) 23:46, 16 September 2014 (UTC) |
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==Bicycle collection and riding== |
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According to the Wall Street Journal, "Williams collected bikes of all types, but he was passionate about one brand in particular: ]". His obsessive collecting of bicycles is compared to ] and his cars.<ref name="Gay">{{cite news |first1=Jason |last1=Gay |date=August 14, 2014 |title=Robin Williams and Dario Pegoretti: The Comedian and the Bike Builder |newspaper=] |url=http://online.wsj.com/articles/robin-williams-and-dario-pegoretti-the-comedian-and-the-bike-builder-1407970079 |accessdate=August 18, 2014}}</ref> In 2003, ] speculated that he had a warehouse filled with the world's largest collection of exotic bicycles.<ref name="Koeppel">{{cite journal |first1=Dan |last1=Koeppel |url=http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured-stories/robin-williams-im-lucky-have-bikes-my-life |year=2003 |title=Robin Williams Profile {{mdash}} Robin Williams: "I'm Lucky to Have Bikes in My Life" |journal=] |accessdate=September 2, 2014}}</ref> |
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This was a passion of his, and size and scope of his collection was unprecedented. What part of "world's largest collection" don't you understand. <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">] (])</span> 12:11, 3 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:I rewrote the footnote, reordered the content including the text. This is a footnote, not even in the main text. <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">] (])</span> 12:49, 3 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::One of the following sources quotes Williams as saying his bicycle collection "there are too many to count." He also donated a Pegoretti to charity.<ref name="Cullinan"> {{cite journal |title=Robin Williams Rides With PEZ! |date=October 31, 2006 |first1=Bob |last1=Cullinan |journal=pez cycling news |url=http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/interviews/robin-williams-rides-with-pez |accessdate=September 3, 2014}}</ref> <ref name="Gastaldo">{{cite news |url=http://www.newser.com/story/192967/robin-williams-donated-bike-raises-20k-for-charity.html |title=Robin Williams' Donated Bike Raises $20K for Charity: STILL HAD MUD ON TIRES FROM ACTOR RIDING IT |first1=Evann |last1=Gastaldo |journal=Newser |date=August 25, 2014 |accessdate=September 3, 2014}}|accessdate=September 3, 2014}}.</ref> These could be additional sources, but I haven't put them in yet. <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">] (])</span> 14:28, 3 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:It's trivia, cluttered up the reference unnecessarily, looked like an advertisement, and doesn't belong in the article. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">] ]</span> 16:32, 3 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::I disagree. You could say the same thing about the ] article (you'd be wrong) which has a whole section dedicated to his car collection. One reader's trivia is another's important fact. This was widely reported in the media. Just google "Robin Williams bicycling" and you will see that there has been a lot of interest in the subject. For you to carp about five sentences (three of which are in a footnote) shows only that you are not a bicyclist. (Not that there is anything wrong with that. But it is your personal opinion, not an objective standard.) |
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::Of course, we could do a whole section with a lot more detail. Or even a separate article. <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">] (])</span> 17:28, 3 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:::One point to consider here is that the Jay Leno comparison is likely to be unhelpful for a significant proportion of readers. Leno is relatively unknown outside the U.S., while Williams had international recognition. ] (]) 18:07, 3 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::::"My favorite thing to do is ride a bicycle. I ride road bikes. And for me, it's mobile meditation."<ref name="Soo">{{cite newspaper |url=http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/robin-williams-marin-man-bicycle-725716 |title=Robin Williams in Marin: The Man on the Bicycle |date=August 15, 2014 |first1=Soo |last1=Youn |newspaper=] |accessdate=September 3, 2014}}</ref><br> |
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] applies to you, ] too. Don't ]. Let's see if we can come to a consensus here after this is given time to percolate. <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">] (])</span> 18:41, 3 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:::::Stop cluttering up references with promotional and advertisement-like content that amounts to trivia and fan cruft. Adding more about bicycles in the article (even embedded within the reference) adds nothing to the reader's understanding of the article subject. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">] ]</span> 20:06, 3 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::::::I don't do that. Thanks for sharing your opinion, but just saying "no" in a COMMANDING VOICE isn't moving this conversation in a constructive direction. <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">] (])</span> 23:14, 3 September 2014 (UTC) |
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{{reflist-talk}} |
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:::::::But you did do that. You cluttered up the reference unnecessarily. You cluttered it up with something that looked like agenda-pushing spam and an advertisement. You cluttered up the reference with something doesn't add to the article nor to the reader's understanding of the article subject. And it looks like fan-cruft and is trivia. So yes, you did do that. If you want, ask for more discussion on this and try to see if consensus will build. That's what you said earlier today to ] on his talk page, that you want consensus to build. Well, then, do something to get consensus one way or the other. But don't keep stubbornly re-adding something that has been taken out for sound reasons. You have yet to try and discuss the addition, all I've seen you do is get mad because it's been removed and tell others they don't know what they are talking about. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">] ]</span> 00:33, 4 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::::::::It is you ''alone'' that has come up with this. No ] is involved. The references were not "cluttered up." I have noted that some of our editors don't like the ] connection as it is deemed too American. It is a concrete comparison that was made by the ], not by me. But if we want to drop that to get to consensus, I am willing to talk about it. <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">] (])</span> 01:33, 4 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:::::::::I'm the only one who's publicly taking a stand against it, however, I know for certain that one other editor approved of the removal of the content. I also don't see anyone coming to your defense or telling me that removing it was the wrong thing to do. Regardless, if you take steps necessary to build consensus on this content dispute, you will know who agrees with you and who doesn't. It's really simple to do. You've been in Misplaced Pages long enough, surely you've had a discussion go to the consensus-building stage? Why not take it there and see how it goes rather than continuing to bang on about it here? -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">] ]</span> 03:34, 4 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::::::::::I agree we need consensus. You have concerns, and I understand them. Right now you and I are the only players in town. So to speak. I think we should discuss this and see if we can come to to a mutually satisfactory solution. This does not have to be a test of will or strength. What do you think? <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">] (])</span> 04:11, 4 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:::::::::::I think I've already given you my reasons for removing what you insist on including. You have yet to address those reasons. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">] ]</span> 04:25, 4 September 2014 (UTC){{od}} |
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Someone should clearly state the key issues first, ideally one at a time, and as simple y/n questions. --] (]) 04:32, 4 September 2014 (UTC) |
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== Removing edit protection == |
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How do you guys feel about removing the edit protection on this page? Now that the initial craze is over I feel that vandalism is less likely and that it might be time to allow more people to edit this page and provide helpful information. ] (]) 21:24, 3 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:We can try it. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">] ]</span> 21:29, 3 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:You'll need to ask the protecting administrator, {{U|MusikAnimal}}, to remove it first. If you don't get a response, you can then post it at ]. <span style="font-family: Palatino;"> ] • ]</span> 19:21, 4 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::Hi, sorry for the delayed response. I think we may run into more disruption but I'm okay with giving this a try. Prior to Williams' death the article was , but that was for BLP violations. I'll keep my eye on the history and we'll go from there. Cheers — '''] <sup>]</sup>''' 17:50, 8 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:::Clearly this isn't going to work out right now. However despite previous choices in duration, I'm only going to semi-protect for three months, hopefully things will have cooled off by then. Remember any unconfirmed user can make an ], just click the big blue button . Best — '''] <sup>]</sup>''' 22:55, 8 September 2014 (UTC) |
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== 3RR and edit warring == |
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] is persisting in removing the hidden text on cause of death, and has already broken 3RR in his edit warring, which he has been warned about.<br />He is removing the description, including hidden text stating:- |
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: <nowiki>"] due to ]<br>(preliminary autopsy results)<!---Please keep the cause of death specific to that of the coroner's statements until they release a full autopsy report. This will keep the current citations in the article in line with the information here--->"</nowiki><br /> |
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He is inserting |
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:"death_cause = ] by ]" |
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AFAIK the coroner has yet to issue the full report - can someone please confirm whether this is still the case? - ] (]) 19:12, 9 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:Find some good recent sources to see what they say. Then add that info here for some consensus on changes. --] (]) 19:24, 9 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:Further, even if the report is suicide, I can't see a problem by saying "Asphysia by hanging" as the cause of death (assuming that will be the cause), but yes, let's wait for the coroner report which I have yet to see news of its final release. --] (]) 19:44, 9 September 2014 (UTC) |
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== Rfc: Should the name of ] be included in the infobox? == |
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{{rfc|bio|rfcid=94E21B9}} |
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Per ] the name of a child should be only entered in the infobox if they are notable. Although I added the name to infobox in the children section along with the number of children as '''3 (incl. ])''', ] and ] removed her name. Masem says that people will start adding the names of other children however I find this argument is completely irrational and also it is not a good reason to not include the name in the infobox. Winklevi says that a consensus was reached which was to keep the name out. However after searching through the archives I didn't find any consensus ever being there on the issue. However we can have a consensus now on this issue. Should the name of Robin Williams' daughter ] be included in the infobox of the article? ] (]) 04:50, 15 September 2014 (UTC) |
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===Survey=== |
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*'''Yes''': I don't see any violation of any rule or policy in including the name. Besides the argument that that people will start adding the names of other children however I find this argument is completely irrational and also is not a good reason to not include the name. ] (]) 04:50, 15 September 2014 (UTC) |
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*'''Yes''' it is imperative because this is the first place people will search to see if he had any notable offspring.--] <small>(] / ] / ] / ] / ])</small> 14:50, 15 September 2014 (UTC) |
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*'''Yes''': She is notable in her own right and her name is in the public domain so there are no privacy concerns. That is what the infobox is for. ]] 14:54, 15 September 2014 (UTC) |
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*'''No'''. She is notable, but this discussion has already taken place just a couple of weeks ago. Consensus was already reached and was based on the following: adding one name of a notable child would be confusing; adding all the children's names would clutter up the info box unnecessarily. If people want to know the names of Williams' children, they can read the article. After all, that is what we want people to do: read Misplaced Pages articles, not just glance at info boxes. Further, KahnJohn is engaging in ] from what would seem to be a personal agenda by initiating this RFC. He didn't like the consensus that was reached a short while ago, and is now seeking comments in order to disrupt the consensus. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">] ]</span> 06:39, 16 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::'''Comment''': That is completely false accusation that you have leveled on me ]. I don't have any personal agenda or wish to disrupt some consensus (which actually was never there). I only started this Rfc in order to ascertain whether the Misplaced Pages editors support including Zelda's name in the infobox or not. If majority of the people here vote against including her name I have no problem with that. This Rfc was started by me only to take the opinion of as many people as possible. ] (]) 06:43, 16 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:::Your comments found here show your claim of not having a problem with the consensus reached and agreed upon again in further discussion to be false. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">] ]</span> 06:48, 16 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::::Actually you're wrong there again. When I said ''there never was no consensus'' I meant to say that unlike what you (Winkelvi) claim, a consensus was never reached. I really wonder why you're making out such false meanings of my comment when the meaning of it can be understood clearly. ] (]) 06:56, 16 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::In other words, no child should be mentioned by name unless all children are notable! Do you truly not see that this is illogical? The infobox reflects current consensus; it denotes importance of information on offspring. The relevant rules direct us to respect the privacy of non-notable children, while on the other hand Misplaced Pages is all about ]. How can you possibly support a position whereby a person's notability is nullified on account of his or her siblings' non-notability? -] (]) 11:16, 18 September 2014 (UTC) |
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*'''Yes''' ] does not preclude mentioning by name one notable child and leaving the others nameless. As far as children who are not ] individuals themselves are concerned, the rule explicitly directs us to "consider omitting the names" "for privacy reasons." But having one notable individual plus other, non-notable ones does not rob the notable individual of his or her notability! We should, therefore, mention ] by name and leave the others nameless. E.g. "three including ]." -] (]) 09:17, 16 September 2014 (UTC) |
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*'''No''' Either you do all three (which there's not enough room for) or you do none; it gives undo weight for just one to be listed, and invites editors to come along to add the other two for completeness. This has been determined before via talk page archives while this page was locked down over edit warring over this specific facet. --] (]) 15:06, 16 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::On what basis is there not enough room for 3? I really want to know (and I don't think it matters that they don't all have the same mother, we do not have to cover that detail in the infobox). ]] 15:29, 16 September 2014 (UTC) |
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*'''No:''' The names of his children are mostly trivia, and they're just as easy to discover in the TOC under "Children." There's no limit to all the minutia the infobox ], and the infobox looks large as it is. Adding one child without the rest would look odd to most visitors, regardless of it having a link, since readers see links as a convenience. So it's obvious there will be others who either question why only one child is listed or else just add the others. ], updated to, ''I'm linked, therefore I am,'' , is silly, IMO. --] (]) 22:07, 16 September 2014 (UTC) |
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*'''Yes''': His children's names are most certainly NOT trivial. In fact, I'd say all three should be included. There's no point in naming one but not the others, regardless of notability. I really don't think an RfC on something minor like this is needed, though. '''] (] / ])''' 00:58, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::His children's names should be (and are) in the body of the article. They are not necessary in the info box. Having them in the info box is trivial and unimportant. As is this RFC. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">] ]</span> 04:27, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:::I request you to please stop showing disruptive behavior and ridiculing the Rfc. You accused me of not caring about the consensus which never actually existed but it is you who has starting to ridiculing the consensus. I request you to contribute your valuable opinion instead of getting involved in conflict with others and indulging in disruptive behavior. ] (]) 05:05, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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*'''Yes''': https://en.wikipedia.org/Marsha_Garces_Williams - --] (]) 07:25, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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*'''Yes.''' Why don't we use a new field that reads "notable children", that way it's clear we're not necessarily listing all the offspring? I don't know if {{tl|infobox person}} allows for custom fields, but if not, we can add support. — '''] <sup>]</sup>''' 14:37, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::That's a sensible compromise. The problem you might have with adding the criteria, however, is whether or not the addition falls within the MOS guidelines for info boxes and if adding the section and name adds to the reader's understanding of the article subject. I maintain it does not, but your suggestion is certainly thoughtful and more in line with working through a conflict than any of the others giving 'yes' support so far. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">] ]</span> 14:47, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::I agree with this proposal, i.e. having a line for number of children and another one for notable children, which is to be left unused in case of non-notable ones. -] (]) 11:09, 18 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::@] I agree with your idea too. Actually I already had this idea abut a different section for notable children but I thought just like everything else ] will dismiss that too. ] (]) 04:44, 18 September 2014 (UTC) |
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===Threaded discussions=== |
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{{hidden begin |
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|title=Off-topic back and forth commentary |
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|titlestyle = background:pink; text-align:center; |
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}} |
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Consensus on this was already reached. KahnJohn has been fighting that consensus for weeks. He edit warred over it. His most compelling reason for including her name is based on his personal interest in gaming, as Zelda was allegedly named after a video game character. This RFC, in my opinion, is one editor trying to ] and is based on an intent to disrupt, overturn consensus by editors very involved in the development of this article, ], and a need to ]. I'm all for editors going to RFC for dispute resolution, but in this case, I find it very inappropriate and dishonest. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">] ]</span> 16:49, 16 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:I couldn't find this consensus either, and even if such a consensus was reached it can change. This RFC is the best way to resolve the dispute. I don't care what KahnJohn's reasons are. What are your reasons for wanting it the way you want it? What are anybody's? We don't have to say and we don't have to know. There is nothing sinister about adding children's names to an infobox when they are already in the public domain. ]] 17:41, 16 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::My reasons are already stated. Considering that, I can only sense aggressiveness in your tone in asking what my reasons are. And no one suggested "sinister" rationale. I continue to stand by all the reasons stated when we reached consensus on this weeks ago as well as those expressed now by the same people who agreed that her name is not needed in the info box. Having her name there just because we can is flawed rationale and defies logic. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">] ]</span> 23:27, 16 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:::You too were being aggressive when you called my comment on your talk page "trash". Rather than telling others to keep their behaviors in check you personally need to learn it first. I don't want to start any blame game here Winkelvi but honestly you're breaching all the limits of decency. I have been patient with you because of you having Asperger even though you have ridiculed me for long. And yes we can include the name of Zelda Williams when there is nothing wrong in including it. From your behavior it is starting to seem that it is actually you who doesn't want the name to be included because of a personal agenda. I can't stop you from expressing your opinion but if you show disruptive behavior again I'm sorry to say but I'll have to report you at ANI. I've already said whatever is the outcome of the Rfc we'll abide by it. So I don't understand what problem you really have with it. A consensus should have both the involved and uninvolved editors and that's the only reason for me initiating this Rfc. ] (]) 04:48, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::::KahnJohn's rationale is also already stated. You implied his reasons were something other than his stated rationale. Why should we believe Winkelvi and second guess anyone else? That was my point, we can only go by what people state and that is what consensus should be based on. As there is nothing sinister about it, why are you reaching for an ulterior motive? And I agree Winkelvi's "" edit summary to a good faith request by KahnJohn was uncivil. ]] 05:52, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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Also in response to Wikelvi's claims of a consensus being reached these are the only places where including Williams' childens' name or not has been discussed: |
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*https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Robin_Williams/Archive_3#Full_protection |
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*https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Robin_Williams/Archive_4#Children |
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*https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Robin_Williams/Archive_2#WILLIAMS_CHILDREN |
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And as you all might notice after reading them carefully no consensus has ever been reached in them which falsifies Winklevi's claims. ] (]) 04:57, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::::Yes, please DO report me at ANI. That would be very interesting and amusing, indeed. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">] ]</span> 05:20, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:::::Do you think since you're an administrator you'll get away scot-free? ] (]) 06:25, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::::::Administrator????? ] (]) 06:31, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:::::::@] Read ] if you want to know about administrators. ] (]) 07:06, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::::::::Duh, yes I know what an administrator is. I also know that ] is NOT an administrator. ] (]) 07:10, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:::::::::Looks like I wrongly assumed that from his credentials on his user page. ] (]) 08:19, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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Not to be confused with Robbie Williams. For other people named Robin Williams, see Robin Williams (disambiguation). |
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{{outdent}}Winkelvi has now taken to edit warring about this on ], where space is clearly not an issue. ]] 11:42, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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This looks like someone a far less famous person would have put on in order to get more attention. As in "if Robbie Williams is famous enough to even be marginally confused with Robin Williams, he must be famous". |
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My intention is to remove this, unless there is some sort of compelling reason not to. There is not a person on the planet who would confuse Robin Williams with anyone, or anyone with him. Where there is no ambiguity a disambiguity statement is itself factually incorrect in its premise. |
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:Not the case at all. One revert is not edit warring. I gave my reasons for removing the names from that infobox at the article's talk page (). -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">] ]</span> 14:11, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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] (]) 02:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:I'm sorry but I disagree. Not everyone who comes to the English Misplaced Pages knows everything about whatever celebrity or knows how to exactly spell whichever celebrity's name. In my opinion Rob/Robbie/Robin/Robert coupled with a last name spelled exactly the same is enough to necessitate a "not to be confused with" along with disambiguation page or pages. - ] (]) 03:13, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== "Seize the Day" Movie Credit missing == |
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::One revert of another's revert of your edit (BRR) is edit warring. If that isn't edit warring, then anyone can do whatever they like and nobody else has any say about it whatsoever. ]] 14:40, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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Robin Williams performed in ], a movie that premiered on PBS in 1986. ] (]) 14:29, 26 November 2024 (UTC) |
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:::Please keep this discussion limited to one talk page. As I said at the Garces Williams talk page, if you are so convinced I'm edit warring, then report me at 3RR. Otherwise, cut the crap and the accusations. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">] ]</span> 14:50, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::::]. ]] 15:09, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:Covered in the filmography list. Not significant enough to be mentioned here on the bio page ] (]) 14:37, 26 November 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::I have almost given up trying to contribute to Misplaced Pages because of your bullying ], you along with a handful of others have high-jacked this page since Robin Williams passing and have prevented anyone from providing any meaningful contributions you did not like, except from editors with higher administrative powers. You made threats to other editors, when they attempted to bring forth a point of view and refused to listen to common sense. Now you have the audacity to go and change Marsha Garces's page when I point out it's difference to Robin Williams' while a consensus survey is ongoing, not to mention this was a point I brought up in the issue before when you and your editors clique blocked the idea. I sincerely hope ] follows through with her official complaint on your behaviour, because this is not "YOUR" encyclopedia.--] (]) 17:54, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::::::You are also welcome to take your whining and accusations to an administrator's talk page. If you don't, it would be better for the community if you stop firing of baselss accusations. In other words, back up your threats or shut up about it. Continuing with your "Winkelvi picks on me" campaign is beyond old. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">] ]</span> 17:30, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::::::: LOL ! Did you just tell a new user to "Shut Up!" ... priceless. I made no baseless accusations, the archived discussions in the talk pages and your recent edits are proof of what I said. If you wish this to become an official complaint against you continue with your behavior and it will be so. --] (]) 17:54, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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{{hidden end}} |
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This has gone a little too far, I'm nipping it in the bud right now. Comment on ''content'', not editors. This talk page is about the ] article, let's stay on that subject. Play your drama games somewhere else. — '''] <sup>]</sup>''' 18:12, 17 September 2014 (UTC) |
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Not to be confused with Robbie Williams. For other people named Robin Williams, see Robin Williams (disambiguation).
This looks like someone a far less famous person would have put on in order to get more attention. As in "if Robbie Williams is famous enough to even be marginally confused with Robin Williams, he must be famous".
My intention is to remove this, unless there is some sort of compelling reason not to. There is not a person on the planet who would confuse Robin Williams with anyone, or anyone with him. Where there is no ambiguity a disambiguity statement is itself factually incorrect in its premise.
Kurt (talk) 02:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
