| Revision as of 03:14, 29 October 2014 editFountains of Bryn Mawr (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users21,979 editsm →Electrical Conduction removal← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 10:18, 10 July 2024 edit undoQwerfjkl (bot) (talk | contribs)Bots, Mass message senders4,013,125 editsm Removed deprecated parameters in {{Talk header}} that are now handled automatically (Task 30)Tag: paws [2.2] | ||
| (450 intermediate revisions by 41 users not shown) | |||
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
| {{Talk header |
{{Talk header|search=yes}} | ||
| {{WikiProject banner shell|class=B| | |||
| {{WikiProject Energy |importance=Top}} | |||
| {{WikiProject Physics |importance=mid}} | |||
| }} | |||
| {{User:MiszaBot/config | {{User:MiszaBot/config | ||
| |archiveheader = {{aan}} | |archiveheader = {{aan}} | ||
| |maxarchivesize = 100K | |maxarchivesize = 100K | ||
| |counter = |
|counter = 6 | ||
| |minthreadsleft = 5 | |minthreadsleft = 5 | ||
| |algo = old( |
|algo = old(30d) | ||
| |archive = Talk:Wireless |
|archive = Talk:Wireless power transfer/Archive %(counter)d | ||
| }} | }} | ||
| {{Auto archiving notice |bot=MiszaBot I |age=3 |units=months }} | |||
| {{WikiProject Energy|class=C|importance=Top}} | |||
| {{physics |class=B |importance=mid }} | |||
| == Electrostatic == | |||
| If it's a "rapidly alternating" field, it's not "electrostatic". But it's a direct quote, so what can you do? --] (]) 21:55, 15 December 2010 (UTC) | |||
| : AC electrostatic fields? It remains an electrostatic field no matter how fast it's varying. But more clearly, "Electrostatics" is a field of science involving e-fields, charge, forces. It's analogous to Newtonian Statics. Neither one is required to be "static." Instead, they only apply to situations where "dynamics" phenomena are insignificant, or are being ignored. If neither EM waves nor magnetic fields are significant, then a system is "electrostatic," even if it's AC. Or for example, if you're looking only at the e-fields and attraction/repulsion forces of a radio antenna, then you're doing "Electrostatics."] (]) 01:46, 16 December 2010 (UTC) | |||
| == Material needs to be put back in == | |||
| Material needs to be put back in ... | |||
| "" ... has a strong anti-Tesla POV in editing. | |||
| ... needs to be put into the Electrical conduction section. --] 16:08, 5 January 2011 (UTC) | |||
| <years later> In this article, we should talk about methods that work. Poor doomed Tesla has a whole article on his World Wireless system and a lengthy biography as well. --] (]) 14:26, 18 September 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ...and again, this article should stick to methods that work, not dead-ends that couldn't work. --] (]) 15:55, 22 September 2014 (UTC) | |||
| == Electric energy transfer == | |||
| This section is very poorly put together and is almost useless without simple field line diagrams. Also please don't just rip unedited from Steinmetz... simplify first. | |||
| Get on it!!!! | |||
| <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 20:14, 17 February 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> | |||
| :This section did seem to read oddly textbook when i saw it, figures. ] (]) 00:04, 1 August 2012 (UTC) | |||
| == Narrower beams. == | |||
| Article wrote: | |||
| Because of the "thinned array curse," it is not possible to make a narrower beam by combining the beams of several smaller satellites. | |||
| Phase coherent sources on the baseline of a set of larger antenna array (satellite) sources, produce narrower beams. And sources spaced sufficiently Nyquist dense to the broadcast wavelength, would produce an ideal narrow beam, with a larger array of satellites. Phase array radars use this method. What you mean to say is that, "Combining several satellites into a larger array with phase coherency, will produce a narrower beam, but the more that the synthetic aperture array is thinned below a Nyquist Source Spacing Wavelength Criterion, will cause the beam pattern to be spread about the ideal narrow beam far-field pattern, in a reduced resolution." ] (]) 19:26, 6 March 2011 (UTC) | |||
| http://en.wikipedia.org/Phased_Array_Radar | |||
| == Heard Iceland wants to use wireless power transmission ? == | |||
| Heard nation of Iceland.Wants to use Wireless power transmission to sell power to Europe! From its Geo GThermal producing power plants? Any info on this idea? That of Nikola Tesla (1856-1943) idea of sending eleltric power wirelessly? Thanks!] (]) 21:31, 16 October 2011 (UTC) | |||
| ==Wireless Power Transfer by Magnetic Resonant Coupling== | |||
| Two type of wireless power exist: Far-field, and Near-Field. This article ignores a category suggested by this section title, and is years behind industrial innovations in the same. | |||
| ] <--- a Misplaced Pages article | |||
| WiTricity is resonant coupling for power transfer --<font color=blue>near-field coupling NOT far-field coupling</font>. '''''WiTricity''''' was branded by Marin Soljacic from MIT. | |||
| <div style="background:#FFFFf8; border:1px outset azure; margin:1em 2em; padding:0 1em;"> | |||
| ] <---wikipedia article | |||
| :<b>“</b>Resonant energy transfer is the operating principle behind proposed short range wireless electricity systems such as WiTricity and systems that have already been deployed, such as passive RFID tags and contactless smart cards.<b>”</b> | |||
| </div> | |||
| The Misplaced Pages.org articles ] <strike>and ]</strike> are not even in the 'See Also' section. | |||
| What is the blind-spot about in this confused article? | |||
| Not to mention that Intel Corp. did a road show with demonstrations of a few dozen watts of power transfered several feet at 75% efficiency. | |||
| And a cell phone company, TDK, already has a wireless power charger designed for production, with improvements already slated. Another company has a wireless power charger pad to park an electric car over for wireless charging. | |||
| As an enthusiast, I'm compiling a time-line as I can (not complete by any means)... | |||
| * http://portal.groupkos.com/index.php?title=Near_Field_Resonance_Time-line | |||
| Consider that while the press realizes and reports MIT's and Intel's work, et al, as the magnetic equivalent of Tesla's resonant voltage technology, that the academic cloud has yet to precipitate much outside the home camp... perhaps only due to the newness of it all. Yet, when industry forges ahead at the lead from MIT, is that not sufficient citation? Are the scientific papers supporting the patents by Soljacic not sufficient citation? | |||
| The missing term here is <b>resonant coupling</b>. '''''Electrodynamic induction''''' is not proper terminology for the same. Why? Because the resonant one-loop coil that transmits (often surrounded by a field-shaping passive coil) makes no broadcast RF signal while self-resonant. Therefore... | |||
| <center> | |||
| '''''How can one claim dynamic-induction when there is no RF field to create induction?''''' | |||
| </center> | |||
| <div style="background:wheat; border:1px outset azure; margin:1em 2em; padding:0 1em;"> | |||
| I hope to track this article and the cultural interplay of old-school meeting new-school... because to date, very few can disconnect Marin Soljacic's work on first exposure as more than an inductive trick. | |||
| </div> | |||
| Think coupled NMR coils, built to cohere to a self-magnetic-resonance at the same frequency, with field drop-off between them mapping the Coulomb field energy gradient (exponentially dimenishing with distance). There is no emitted RF signature from a self-resonant magnetic loop. | |||
| Links about magnetic resonant coupling (not to be dismissed as inductive coupling) | |||
| : WiTricity Corporation | |||
| ::* https://www.facebook.com/WiTricity | |||
| ;Youtube (for pity sakes) | |||
| :'''''WiTricity technology (The Economist)''''' | |||
| :: * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbCUMhkEhTo | |||
| :* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Drbzm-GumK4 <-- excellent demonstration | |||
| ;Wireless Charging for Consumer Electronics and Military Applications | |||
| ;* http://www.wirelesspowerplanet.com/news/wireless-charging-and-transmission-for-consumer-electronics-vehicles-industrial-markets-and-military-applications/ | |||
| ;Instructables.com has at least one proper builder-project | |||
| :<small>(also with term confusion --because they may have read this article!)</small> | |||
| Remember that like this Misplaced Pages article seems to portray by omission AND mis-labeling, that there is a general mis-conception that inductive coupling is the principle involved with magnetic resonant coupling. | |||
| Check out this gap between coils... | |||
| * http://portal.groupkos.com/index.php?title=File:IntelWirelessDevice_0382.JPG | |||
| <small>] (]) 17:23, 31 July 2012 (UTC)</small> | |||
| <br/> | |||
| Re-edited ] (]) 12:56, 1 August 2012 (UTC) | |||
| <br/> | |||
| Re-edited -moved to the bottom, sorry ] (]) 13:19, 1 August 2012 (UTC)<br/> | |||
| Re-edited -my bad. Inductive Wireless Coupling is in the 'See Also.' | |||
| == Contactless vs. Wireless == | |||
| This article covers all types of contactless charging, including the future potential for wireless charging. Given this topical breadth, I renamed the article accordingly. | |||
| Contactless charging includes all types of systems, from inductive charging, with which a device must be placed very near or on top of the charger, to wireless charging, with which a device could be freely transported around a house while charging—a technology that is still in very earky developlemt. | |||
| Primarily, though, the previous article title was confusing to the 90% of people who don't understand electrical engineering, and were led by it to believe there is a technology available to them that allows the freedom to carry their mobile phones around the house while charging.] (]) 04:36, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :That's irrelevant. We're not here to right wrongs. The relevant question is what the title normally is in the literature. So far as I can tell, it's simply 'wireless power' nearly always.] (]) 19:55, 16 November 2012 (UTC) | |||
| == Wireless Is Not Necessarily 'Contactless' == | |||
| <b>The disturbed charge of ground and air method employs ground terminal electrodes that are in physical contact with the earth; it is not contactless and yet it is wireless. Furthermore, the energy transmission mode is not by means of electromagnetic induction nor by electromagnetic radiation, rather by electric current flowing through natural conductors and displacement current. The name of the article should be changed back to "Wireless energy transfer" or changed to "Wireless power or wireless energy transmission." --</b> ] (]) 16:11, 3 November 2012 (UTC) | |||
| === Considering title changes === | |||
| {{policy shortcut|WP:TITLECHANGES}} | |||
| <b>. . . <u>If an article title has been stable for a long time, and there is no good reason to change it, it should not be changed.</u> . . .</b> | |||
| no consensus can be reached on what the title should be, default to the title used by the first major contributor after the article ceased to be a ]. (This paragraph was adopted to stop move warring. It is an adaptation of the wording in the ], which is based on the Arbitration Committee's decision in the ].) | |||
| Any potentially controversial proposal to change a title should be advertised at ], and consensus reached before any change is made. Debating controversial titles is often unproductive, and there are many other ways to help ]. . . . | |||
| While titles for articles are subject to consensus, do not invent names as a means of compromising between opposing points of view. Misplaced Pages describes current usage but cannot prescribe a particular usage or invent new names. | |||
| -- ] (]) 16:33, 3 November 2012 (UTC) | |||
| == Requested move == | |||
| <div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top --> | |||
| :''The following discussion is an archived discussion of a ]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a ]. No further edits should be made to this section. '' | |||
| The result of the move request was: '''Page moved'''. ] ]‍] 11:00, 6 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ---- | |||
| ] → {{no redirect|Wireless power}} – Misplaced Pages requires we use the most common name for the title. The most common name is 'wireless power', so we should use that. Even the use of the word 'energy' is bad because electricity is really mostly to do with power, not energy, because electric circuits are largely incapable of storing energy (although batteries can, they really store power, in the form of energy). But that doesn't matter much, the most common name for this is 'wireless power'.] (]) 20:06, 16 November 2012 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Support''', as I believe "wireless power" is the more common term (and, for me, more immediately meaningful). ] (]) 09:39, 19 November 2012 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Support''' - Wireless power, more common term; current title is not acceptable. --] 16:54, 21 November 2012 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Support''' - Proposed title would be more common and understandable. --] (]) 14:49, 5 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a ]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a ]. No further edits should be made to this section.</div><!-- Template:RM bottom --> | |||
| ==Terrestrial single-conductor surface wave transmission line== | |||
| How this type of power transfer in microwave frequency range through a single conductor comes under the article titled 'Wireless power'? | |||
| ] (]) 12:05, 7 January 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :Agreed, if it has a wire, it's not wireless and doesn't belong here. --] (]) 14:37, 7 January 2013 (UTC) | |||
| == Citation 106 was not correct. == | |||
| I found the correct date and pages for this citation. Here is a link to the actual article: http://hdl.handle.net/2027/njp.32101050973336?urlappend=%3Bseq=836 | |||
| I have corrected the citation. | |||
| Thanks, | |||
| ] (]) 12:42, 15 August 2013 (UTC) | |||
| == Scalar Electromagnetics == | |||
| Google video search (Tesla Konstantin Meyl transmission of energy) | |||
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuJPz88jUbM "Meyl shows Tesla longitudinal waves for wireless energy transmission" | |||
| The result that I watched illustrated that there was a distinct difference between the Tesla coil transmission of energy when in one mode (Hertzian wave mode) where the signal strength was very weak and could easily be blocked by a person's hand versus a stronger signal (longitudinal wave mode) that could not be blocked by a person's hand. | |||
| Physicist Meyl said that he had demonstrated this at a number of lectures at universities to both students and professors. | |||
| Meyl also claimed that the wave of the stronger transmission was not Hertzian, but was longitudinal. The fringe science of scalar electromagnetics subject is usually not found here on Misplaced Pages. A search a year or two ago produced no Google search results from the Misplaced Pages web pages for stuff relating to scalar electromagnetics at all. | |||
| The Tesla coil experimenters demonstrating the phenomenon could claim now that the pervading Higgs field of local space time is being disturbed by the oscillating Tesla coil to permit a more distant than usual coupling or induction in a receiving resonant Tesla coil device. | |||
| Other persons have claimed to have produced low powered public address systems whose wireless remote units were able to drive speakers at substantial distances from the transmitters. Google (Patrick Flanagan Tesla) | |||
| Meyl also claimed that he confirmed claims of others that the longitudinal wave traveled at a FTL speed of about 1.5 c (where c = the speed of light in free space). | |||
| == powering "space elevator climbers" nonsense == | |||
| Google (Donald Lee Smith free energy) | |||
| This reduces the credibility of this article. Space elevators are pure fantasy, and the chances of humanity finding a material that can support its own weight over more than 36000km, and achieving political ability to convince the world to let a structure be built that is able to go around the world more than twice, I'm sorry this is about as possible as teleportation or faster-than-light travel. Suggest removing this as a "possible" future application. | |||
| A now deceased petroleum mining engineer named Donald Lee Smith produced a number of so called free energy devices. He had an unfettered access to books on electrodynamics dating back to the 1800s, and so did not dismiss out of hand any of the original theories therein posited in the older texts. In one or more presentations Smith says that for quite a number of years that he had never heard of Tesla's experimentation in the field of energy. | |||
| == charging implanted insulin pumps == | |||
| Among the numerous working device prototypes where Smith supposedly demonstrated over unity results was a 4 Tesla coil apparatus where a resonant circuit powered a low loss Tesla coil transmitter that induced "identical" / multiplied energy output in resonant receiver Tesla coils that were within 5 centimeters or so away. For the greatest energy transfer to the 3 receiver Tesla coils, each had a tuning capacitor for adjusting the receiver coils to be as close in resonant frequency as possible to the transmitter. | |||
| This is fantasy also. There has only been 1 implantable insulin pump, the Minimed 2007C. It used a Lithium Carbon Monofluoride battery which had a 7 year lifespan, after which the entire device needed to be surgically replaced. Only a very small number of people ever used this system, and probably nearly nobody does now, as external pumps and control systems are much superior, without requiring surgery for implantation, an outpatient procedure for refilling insulin every 90 days, and the other risks associated with an implanted device. | |||
| Google (Donald Smith inventors weekend 2001) | |||
| The battery was not recharged, and there was no device to inductively transfer power to it. | |||
| The point in the particular video that features explanation of the operation of the Tesla coil resonant network transmitter is at about 5 minutes 27 seconds... | |||
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfVd3AKbLnM&feature=youtu.be&t=5m27s | |||
| The video lacks any live demonstration of the particular Tesla coil energy transmission and multiplication device. | |||
| == Doesn't seem especially neutral == | |||
| The correspondence with the mechanism demonstrated by Meyl is that the Don Smith unit could well have had more receiving coils at even greater distance apart to have received the transmitter's energy. Meyl's unit demonstrate that the units do not work with the 1/ (d squared) transmission reduction by the simple and practical fact that Meyl's input energy was the small output of a signal generator, etc, not any multi-kilowatt RF amplifier set up. | |||
| I see no mention of any problems with wireless power transfer, except in the titles of references. I also see no mention of alternatives, such as using solar panels and batteries to receive wireless power from the most powerful wireless transmitter in the solar system (the Sun :-). The article seems way too gung-ho; some down-to-earth comments about the challenges would greatly help. For example, an section which explicitly states why analog and digital wireless data transfer is so widespread, but wireless power is not would help. ] (]) 22:08, 5 June 2021 (UTC) | |||
| Could any of this information in any published papers be cited in the current article so that either FTL or longitudinal or scalar electromagnetics could be mentioned? ] (]) 15:52, 29 September 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :Thanks for your feedback! It really helps to improve the article. Read the 3rd paragraph of the Overview section. Wireless (radio) communication is a lot easier than wireless power because a radio receiver only has to receive a tiny amount of the transmitted power to get the information (an FM radio can receive a station clearly with less than one picowatt, 10<sup>−12</sup> watt, of the station's power absorbed by the antenna). Receiving a significant percentage of the transmitted power is much harder because the radio waves spread out. I agree that the article does not adequately explain this. --]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 08:17, 6 June 2021 (UTC) | |||
| == Lead == | |||
| == Crystal radios == | |||
| The lead not very clear:<br> | |||
| "'''Wireless power''' or '''wireless energy transmission''' is the transmission of electrical energy from a ] to an ] without man-made ]s. Wireless transmission is useful in cases where interconnecting ]s are inconvenient, hazardous, or impossible. The problem of wireless ] differs from that of ], such as radio. In the latter, the proportion of ] received becomes critical only if it is too low for the signal to be distinguished from the background ]. With wireless power, efficiency is the more significant parameter. A large part of the energy sent out by the generating plant must arrive at the receiver or receivers to make the system economical. | |||
| I'm not quite sure where this should go, but the ] is an example of power transfer by radio. Although the power is tiny it can be enough to drive a pair of earphones. ] (]) 11:47, 29 November 2021 (UTC) | |||
| The most common form of wireless power transmission is carried out using ] followed by ]. Other methods under consideration are ] in the form of ] or ] and ] through natural media. It's way too complicated. There is nothing wrong with using big or complex words. It has to be understandable though.--] (]) 00:02, 21 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| == |
== Nikola Tesla == | ||
| What happened to Nikola Tesla free electricity system ] (]) 04:18, 8 January 2022 (UTC) | |||
| All of seem to be a rehash of off topic material that the primary author, GLPeterson, seems to be shunting around Misplaced Pages, trying to find a home for it, re: at ] and ]. I have noted the problems with this material before at ] and some at ] but the highlights of the problem here (as noted by others) is that this is way off topic for this article giving way too much ] to a Tesla historical dead end instead of covering the topic. There is also allot of opinion (more like wholesale POVPUSHes by "Tesla" authors such as Corum) being stated in Misplaced Pages's voice as fact, counter to ]. Articles and books on this topic note Tesla as a short and unsuccessful footnote in Wireless power, not the "go to" authority on the topic. A side problem, which may take us to a Noticeboard, maybe ], is the fact that the editor is heavily excerpting and relying on/promoting/pushing publications from his own websites, tfcbooks.com and TESLARADIO.COM, which is getting to the point of violating ]. ] (]) 02:12, 10 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :I agree. The text of the section seems to be trying to conceal the fact that most of the claims for this type of transmission were made by one man, Tesla, 115 years ago. The citations of Tesla's work often omit Tesla's name and the date to conceal the lack of other sources, and several of the citations don't have any scientific facts but are just Tesla's promotional speeches. This is rampant ] weight to a technological dead end, and clearly ]ing by Tesla enthusiasts. As WP editors, you should know better. You need to understand and respect WP's standards for ]. --<font color="blue">]</font><sup>''<small>]</small>''</sup> 15:03, 18 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::I have note the noted "concealing", pushing, rewording sections about specific "old" Tesla ideas into "some guy some time", and what seem to be bad faith edits/accusations of DAMAGING by GLPeterson. I also note the editors silence on this talk page. This falls into ]. ] (]) 16:49, 20 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :::Yes, ], rather than just reverting let's discuss this here. --<font color="blue">]</font><sup>''<small>]</small>''</sup> 17:51, 20 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::::My feeling is this section, ], is conflating two different technologies: | |||
| ::::*Resonant electromagnetic energy transfer - The various varieties of this are already discussed in the section ] and ]. Tesla's experiments used this, and perhaps he should be credited as inventor, but it doesn't involve conduction through the atmosphere or the other technologies which this section is about. The only non-Tesla sources in this section , , and describe varieties of resonant energy transfer; they have nothing to do with atmospheric conduction. These are ] techniques, and cannot be used for long-distance power transfer as Tesla envisioned; the longest distance achieved in the sources, at low efficiency, was 20 meters, and more typical distances are 2 meters. | |||
| ::::*Tesla's atmospheric conduction ideas - This is supposed to be what this section is about: "''disturbed charge of ground and air method''" and "''...electrical conduction and the flow of current through the upper atmospheric strata.... by the creation of capacitively coupled discharge plasma through the process of atmospheric ionization''" and "''terrestrial single-conductor surface wave or surface plasmon mode''". The only sources supporting that RF energy can be transported in this way are Tesla's from 114 years ago. I don't see any hard evidence that Tesla accomplished any of this - his demonstrations of electric power transfer are accounted for by resonance, or perhaps ordinary radio waves - and no sources are given that any of this has been used for power transfer since. But the article describes them as if they are proven technologies. It should be rewritten to indicate their speculative and unproven nature. | |||
| ::::--<font color="blue">]</font><sup>''<small>]</small>''</sup> 18:47, 20 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Agree. These sections need to be written using an independent secondary source. Chetvorno changes should be instituted along those lines. I have been rewriting ] (sorry, its on a notepad right now) and have a few points. Per W. Bernard Carlson Tesla: Inventor of the Electrical Age, and other source I have chased down, Tesla pursued: | |||
| :::::*a plan of wireless lighting - he was trying to develop a way to light gas-discharge lamps locally and develop that into something he could market. It worked, sorta, in the pics you see him holding a lit lamp in front of a curtain--> the curtain is hiding a big ass coil that had to be very close to the lamp to get it to work. He seems to have given up on the idea. | |||
| :::::*a plan of resonating the entire interior of the Earth. Pump it up with AC, create standing waves of power, tap it anywhere, modulate it through tuned circuits to also send messages. | |||
| :::::*a secondary plan (a return circuit?) (that he seemed to be building into Wardenclyffe Tower - hole in the top of the thing with ultraviolet lights mounted in it to ionize the air over it) to conduct electricity to a layer in the atmosphere that he was pretty sure was there. Per "''Tesla's other widely-publicized proposal was based on a (wild) idea, first put forward by Mahlon Loomis, that a portion of the atmosphere could be employed as a naturally occurring transmission line. Like Loomis, Tesla was under the mistaken impression that an upper layer of the sky was usable as an electrical conductor to replace terrestrial power lines. The main difference between Loomis and Tesla was the former also thought that upper atmosphere could be treated like a battery that would provide unlimited amounts of electrical power. Tesla added the idea that, like a Geissler tube, the rarified air in the upper atmosphere would glow, providing outdoor nighttime illumination.''" | |||
| :::::Tesla does not seem to have gotten any of this to work, but he was a true believer. He thought if he got the patents and built the prototype his backers would give him all the time in the world to get it to work, because he was sure it would work. | |||
| :::::Side note. Teals was not trying to use "radio" so we may want to avoid calling it "Radio Frequency" (RF). He did not believe in that Hertzian crap and would be offended if anyone suggested he did. He believed (up to 1919) in his "True Wireless" system described above (see and Carlson) So "rewritten to indicate their speculative and unproven nature" and truncating it down to a small part of the article (this is just a footnote in history) is the way to go per RS out there---> unless there are more reliable sources out there. ] (]) 20:41, 20 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Yeah, that sounds about right; a ] view would describe it as a footnote in history. The info on Tesla is interesting; I'm glad someone is trying to get some accuracy into the Tesla articles. I don't know much about Tesla, but I know when an article is inadequately sourced. Some other issues: | |||
| ::::::*What do you think should be done with the material on resonant power transfer? Considering its modern importance in ], ]s and powering mobile devices, I think it should be expanded and have a dedicated section, instead of being lumped in with induction in the ] section. | |||
| ::::::*Ironically, I think Tesla is not acknowledged enough in this article for his role in (short range) resonant power transfer, and his promotion of the idea of wireless power generally. Although his <u>long range</u> power transmission ideas were horse manure, his groundbreaking <u>short range</u> experiments founded the field, AFAIK. | |||
| ::::::*The only piece of experimental evidence for Tesla's long distance transmission of power is his putative experiment in 1900 lighting 200 light bulbs at a distance of 23 miles, mentioned in the timeline. says it is probably a myth. Although Tesla kept meticulous lab notes of the period it is not mentioned, and there is no independent confirmation. Do you have any info about it? | |||
| ::::::*I came across the article in Thomas Valone, Ed. (2002) ''Harnessing the Wheelwork of Nature: Tesla's Science of Energy'', p. 147. Although the rest of the book is pseudoscientific crap, this article seems to be a reasonably sober engineering assessment of the prospect of Tesla-type power transmission, published in ''Proc. of Int'l Energy Conversion Engineering Conference''. Although of course it doesn't support Tesla's atmospheric conduction ideas, it examines the possibility of transmitting power by exciting resonant frequencies (]) of the Earth-ionosphere waveguide cavity by ] waves using a Tesla-type transmitter. He concludes it is infeasable (but "promising"). Has a lot of detailed engineering data about Tesla's Wardenclyffe experiments. | |||
| ::::::--<font color="blue">]</font><sup>''<small>]</small>''</sup> 06:36, 21 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::I think a more realistic section covering RFID, smartcards and powering mobile devices would be an improvement. Tesla does have a place in the article and the current material should (maybe be deleted?) and replaced with something the general public can understand referenced to reliable source, instead of the bafflegab that makes up those sections right now. Any claim such as "23 miles" that can not be reliably referenced should be removed. We need to avoid (remove) all the material that is "Tesla said this - totally unrelated research describes that - therefore we are implying Tesla is correct by putting the two together" .... that stuff is WP:SYNTH. ''Proc. of Int'l Energy Conversion Engineering Conference'' would be good in its own section describing it. I would go ahead with edits like you mentioned since there is apparent 100% consensus on this page. ] (]) 01:29, 22 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :I'm Responding to ] RfC. It looks like we have a ] here and the problem is that some of the summaries are too long. The most obvious improvement is to remove the subsections from ]. Other long sections with a {{tl|Main}} can also be trimmed. ~] 13:26, 23 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::How do you feel about the issue of sources? What's happening here is that ] and I have been in an edit conflict with an editor ]. He has been reverting our efforts to rewrite the section ] but despite our invitations refuses to discuss it. Our feeling is that this section, which is about Tesla's 114 year old "atmospheric conduction" ideas, in essence has no credible ]s. There is no evidence that this type of power transmission has ever been demonstrated, or that it is the subject of current research. The only non-Tesla sources , , and have nothing to do with "atmospheric" or "earth" transmission but are about power transfer by ] between tuned circuits, which is already covered in the ] section. This mechanism also accounts for Tesla's results. The section was written by ] as if these are proven, contemporary technologies for power transmission. We believe the ] is to rewrite it as a small historical section describing Tesla's ideas as a technology that didn't pan out. --<font color="blue">]</font><sup>''<small>]</small>''</sup> 15:00, 23 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :::], been busy at work. I'm just trying to find sources, read up on Tesla's World Wireless ideas, before starting on the section. The info you gave above is great. --<font color="blue">]</font><sup>''<small>]</small>''</sup> 19:12, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::::No problem, been reading myself. ] (]) 22:55, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ==Electrical Conduction removal== | |||
| I am planning to remove the section "Electrical Conduction" with reference in talk for now on the grounds it is un-encyclopedic. This actually has to be a "thing" to be in Misplaced Pages. This does not reference a "thing" but instead a Nikola Tesla theory (which most main stream sources point to being bunk). Most of the references in this section point to Tesla primary theoretical sources or evaluations by "Tesla authors" of those sources but offer no real information that this was or is viable. There are NO main stream sources pointing out this is a "thing". Most of the section is written in the incorrect tone, per: WP:YESPOV, of stating (Tesla's) opinions as facts and stating seriously contested assertions (by Tesla's) as facts. The editor adding this material is citing collected publications on his own websites, including his own writings, as sources. This falls down to basic WP:V at this point unless "reliable, '''third-party''', published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy." can be cited. ] (]) 22:55, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :I agree absolutely with the above on the removal of the existing section. --<font color="blue">]</font><sup>''<small>]</small>''</sup> 00:43, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 10:18, 10 July 2024
| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Wireless power transfer article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
|
| Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6Auto-archiving period: 30 days  |
 | This article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||||||||
.jpg){kind=small}
powering "space elevator climbers" nonsense
This reduces the credibility of this article. Space elevators are pure fantasy, and the chances of humanity finding a material that can support its own weight over more than 36000km, and achieving political ability to convince the world to let a structure be built that is able to go around the world more than twice, I'm sorry this is about as possible as teleportation or faster-than-light travel. Suggest removing this as a "possible" future application.
charging implanted insulin pumps
This is fantasy also. There has only been 1 implantable insulin pump, the Minimed 2007C. It used a Lithium Carbon Monofluoride battery which had a 7 year lifespan, after which the entire device needed to be surgically replaced. Only a very small number of people ever used this system, and probably nearly nobody does now, as external pumps and control systems are much superior, without requiring surgery for implantation, an outpatient procedure for refilling insulin every 90 days, and the other risks associated with an implanted device.
The battery was not recharged, and there was no device to inductively transfer power to it.
Doesn't seem especially neutral
I see no mention of any problems with wireless power transfer, except in the titles of references. I also see no mention of alternatives, such as using solar panels and batteries to receive wireless power from the most powerful wireless transmitter in the solar system (the Sun :-). The article seems way too gung-ho; some down-to-earth comments about the challenges would greatly help. For example, an section which explicitly states why analog and digital wireless data transfer is so widespread, but wireless power is not would help. Sanpitch (talk) 22:08, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for your feedback! It really helps to improve the article. Read the 3rd paragraph of the Overview section. Wireless (radio) communication is a lot easier than wireless power because a radio receiver only has to receive a tiny amount of the transmitted power to get the information (an FM radio can receive a station clearly with less than one picowatt, 10 watt, of the station's power absorbed by the antenna). Receiving a significant percentage of the transmitted power is much harder because the radio waves spread out. I agree that the article does not adequately explain this. --Chetvorno 08:17, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
Crystal radios
I'm not quite sure where this should go, but the crystal radio is an example of power transfer by radio. Although the power is tiny it can be enough to drive a pair of earphones. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 11:47, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
Nikola Tesla
What happened to Nikola Tesla free electricity system 107.77.169.23 (talk) 04:18, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
Categories: