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== "Connection to Sicily" or "Connection to Glastonbury" ? ==
====
Avalon is the May Isle in the Firth of Forth-:Fact


The island of Sicily has always been identified with Avalon.
''It is possible that Avalon, as Arthur's burial island, refers to the ']' of ], which at the time was an island amid the East Anglian ], which has since been drained.'' I've shifted this here from the entry, rather than suppress it. It must be a modern error, since it wasn't anywhere near the Wessex country that has always been associated with Celtic Arthur. Neither is the Firth of Forth, needless to say. ] 19:27, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)
According to the sources, and especially the history of Europe, Sicily is Avalon.
All this by the Normans and also in subsequent periods throughout Europe.
On Glastonbury there is nothing of all this, but only an imaginary urban legend based on a false history of the Middle Ages for economic purposes.--] (]) 13:37, 9 October 2014 (UTC)


: Hold on, since "Avalon" is a legend to begin with, we're never going to pinpoint a real location for it. All we can say is "people have identified it with this place" and "people have identified it with that place". The proponents of Sicily need to assemble their sources and then expand the "Connection to Sicily" section, to sit alongside the "Connection to Glastonbury" section, which should certainly remain even if edited down somewhat for the sake of balance with the rest of the article] ] 14:25, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
''It is sometimes refered to as the legendary location where Jesus vistied the British Isles with Joseph Joseph of Arimathea and that it was later the cite of the first church in Britain. This location of the Isle of Avalon is usually associated with present day Glastonbury.'' The legend connects Joseph of Arimathea (but not Jesus) with Glastonbury Tor, not with Avalon. the connection of Glastonbury Tor with Avalon is a separate jump of the imagination. ] 22:16, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)


::: OK, Avalon is a legend but in the Middle Ages Sicily has historically identified with Avalon from all over Europe. The "Connection to Glastonbury" section is misleading..the tradition of Glastonbury, the Holy Grail and its strange connections are out of place here ... maybe it would be better to insert them into the city page "Glastonbury", so encyclopedic and non-touristy. On this page you can make a mention of this tradition, but without a section with the name "Connection to Glastonbury" ... no connection with Glastonbury.--] (]) 15:42, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
Has anyone here ever heard of the Burgh-by Sands theory on the subject?
It used to be the fort of Aballava in Roman times. There happens to also be a former fort named Camboglanna upward on the Eden. Both names fit, and it has the advantage that for not having been really looked into deeply, we don't have a 10th century style inscription for a supposed 6th century burial.
There is also to note that the Aval/Abal root would be apple. (Afal in modern welsh, Ubhall in modern Irish, from aball in OI, Ùbhal in modern Scottish, Aval in Breton and Cornish, Ooyl in modern Manx)
I'd be tempted to label then the anwynn theory as eventual hogwash. As to Wessex country, there were Plantagenets looking for everything they could lay a hand on to secure their claims at the time it began to be so. Nennius' chronicles, on the other hand, place him over a generation all over the place, which would be unsurprising for a warlord facing multiple fronts, but this would better belong on a discussion on Arthur himself.
David


:::: You write "...in the Middle Ages Sicily has historically identified with Avalon from all over Europe." Care to provide a source for that? Just because a Sicilian ] was popularly associated with Morgan le Fay by the (Arthurian-lit-loving) Normans who conquered Sicily doesn't mean that Avalon was identified with Sicily "all over Europe". The man who gave us Avalon, Geoffrey of Monmouth, tacitly identified it with the Canary Islands.] (]) 16:16, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
I reckon that in origin Avalon is simply another spelling of ]. The legendary island is the White Land of Arthur, the island we now call Britain. ] 17:37, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC).


:::::::We may have the beginning of something constructive here, so the above entry should not simply be deleted. We can proceed if the above poster or others can (a) state in what publications these works are available, (b) summarise what they say that is relevant to the identification of Avalon with Sicily] ] 19:59, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Having read this article, I remain much less the wiser. It seems to be a few vague stories threaded together by poorly written new age waffle. Does anyone have theories or anything more historically accurate than what is written here?


::::::::It's not constructive at all - it's merely a list of authors and Arthurian tales that this person has clearly not read, since they don't support the claim that "in the Middle Ages Sicily has historically (been) identified with Avalon from all over Europe".] (]) 20:47, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
I agree with the above (unsigned). I believe there are official histories of Glatonbury Abbey, one circa 12th centtury and another circa 13th. The earlier details origins of the abbey with no reference to any King Arthur etc, but the later is mysteriously full of such reference. ] 16:56, 18 July 2006 (UTC).


::::::::: Comments from block-evading ] removed, talk page semi-protected. 21:29, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
==Avalon in the ] books==
Can I add the Avalon of Shadow to the list of adaptations? ] 00:22, 27 June 2006 (UTC)


==Proposing some significant pruning to the "Avalon in culture" section==
== Music Venues ==


This section of lists of tangential topics is pretty much the definition of what both ] and ] advise us to avoid. Some of these details involving derived modern works, thematically linked topics and perhaps even the toponyms are worth saving, and for the most part worked into prose, but much of it is just not of significant encyclopedic value to the understanding of this topic. For this kind of cross-categorization, I recommend the project (though be warned that you may get entranced by its siren song and never wish to return to our already undermanned project), but I just don't think the understanding of Avalon as a topic of general ''encyclopedic'' interest is served by mentioning that Magneto named an asteroid base after it. And I know that it might seem like I'm picking a rather easy target there, but the truth is most entries in this section share nothing more than some nomenclature with the general topic of this article. ] ] 12:35, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
Why are so many music venues named avalon? It seems like theres one in every major city.


== AVALON is Ynys Enlli (Bardsey Island) The island is a myth but Geoffrey based his story on this island for the reasoning below. ==
== Unsource info ==


(As an ex police detective) Taking contemporary witnesses, state of mind, chronological logistics, associations, medieval reasoning, book and document study of the time and 20 years of research I can say without a shadow of a doubt in my mind that Ynys Enlli (Bardsey) is the location of the mystical and legendary island of AVALON. (Known the world over) It is a medieval mind jigsaw which can be constructed by using Geoffrey of Monmouth, St Dyfrig, 200000 Saints, Afal (Welsh - apple) Mabinogion, Pilgrimage, Bishop Urban, Llandaff, Welsh/British language and many more evidential enquiry lines. Let me add it is a myth, it was made up, medieval propaganda and for medieval minds, Bardsey could be the only island the Welsh originator of the legend in the 12th century had in mind when he introduced it into the Arthurian stories.(And placed it 500 years earlier) His ingratiation into the 12th century church was complete when his books (highly fabricated) spread the Arthurian legends like wildfire across Europe. Today is the day the bones of the man who crowned Arthur at Caerleon were brought back to Llandaff. 1120AD. (Allegedly) Glastonbury and it's alleged link to Avalon came much later after the original story was constructed.
The below was removed, I decided to put it here in case anyone can find sources for it, just to avoid loss of information. ] 05:35, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


:Misplaced Pages is not your personal blog - please take your ] musings elsewhere. ] (]) 23:30, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
More recently, students have considered Phillip the Apostle's distinctive description of Avalon, as given Joseph of Arimathea at Caesarea. Joseph was to find 1) a white island, 2) abundant in apples, 3)part-owned by England and 4) surrounded by tempestious seas. On the island's highest point he was to build the first alter, dedicated to St.Elena. The only British island that fully fulfills all four criteria, and has a hill-top church ruin of unidentified origin, is Lundy. Visible from Tintagel, Lundy (Luna/Helena/Moon was a possesion of the Knights Templar and is recognised an ancient pilgrimage 'part owned by England', divided in four parts by symbolic stone walling of neolithic period. Bronze-age dwellings, cairns, burial mounds, iron-age tower ruins and giant (8') human remains have been discovered. Surviving headstones at the oval ruin of St.Elena's church date from 6th century A.D. The altar is set on the same latitude (N.51.10)as the altar at Stonehenge. The island is traditionally accessed by boat from the Torridge port of Appledore.


== The article's chronic vandal and edit warrior is back ==
:No source is likely to be found. Any surviving writings from Saint Phillip would be quite famous, especially if they were to Joseph of Arimathea. This is nonsense.--] ]/] 05:37, 18 May 2007 (UTC)--] ]/] 05:37, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
The Italian edit warrior with ever changing IP address is back at it again, vandalizing this article. We have to get either permanent protection on the article or find a way to ban this editor (will be difficult due to him using different IP addresses all the time). ] (]) 22:44, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
:FYI {{u|Cagwinn}} the granting of permanent protection is rare. Asking for a longer period of protection - it was two weeks last time so four is within reason - is probably best. You are right that getting blocks or bans will be difficult since they rotate IPs. They haven't edited since I reverted this morning (my time) so I was going to wait to see if they return. Feel free to file an ] at anytime. In your report you can make the admins aware of this thread though you don't have to. I have the page on my watchlist now so I will help when I can. Thanks for your vigilance in protecting this article. ]|] 22:54, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
::Protected three months. --] <sup>]</sup> 14:50, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
:::: this is the POV ,location of Avalon no Glastonbury guide. The content of the page "Avalon" are on other pages "Glastonbury abbey"., "glastenbury festival" not appropriate, and ] and vandalism. everything is there for all to see.--] (]) 15:36, 30 October 2015 (UTC)


==Assessment comment==
:haha, very amusing. ] 05:39, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
{{Substituted comment|length=215|lastedit=20070504145339|comment=It could use some expantion. I'd like to see some footnotes, too, and maybe a "Further reading" section. &nbsp;— ] &nbsp; (]) 14:53, 4 May 2007 (UTC)}}
Substituted at 08:41, 29 April 2016 (UTC)


== Unorganised, unreferenced & badly written cultural references ==
:: Jesus christ the corsair is that it? Are the british, because I have NO doubt it's people with british connections, actually claiming that jesus sailed/walked/or rode on a donkey to the british isles? We aren't talking about Britain during the middle ages here. We're talking about during the Romans. A jew from jerusalem has time not only to be crucified for starting a cult in Jerusalem at the age of, what, 30? But also plan great voyages around the world, usually to whatever place the person holding that belief has a connection too.
::Let me get this straight. The mormons says he went to the US (hey, not only 1400 years before spain & portugal landed on the same continent but probably a 1000 years before the vikings ever got near to the northenmost tips of it), british people claims gibraltar is theirs due thanks to hebrews and phoenicians (despite humanish people living in iberia for a VERY long time before that) and of course this. Jesus vacationing in Britain but making it back home just in time to be crucified. I would want any claim of this to be sourced and doublesourced in neutral language just due to the absurdity. What would be his rationale? Was he an explorer? Did he have interests in travelling to then day Britain? Sure if some madman writes it in his little book of fiction it must be so right? By all means, include it, but please for once use neutral language.
::] 09:55, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


===Avalon in culture===
:::According to "Icons--A Portrait of England" at http://www.icons.org.uk/theicons/collection/jerusalem/features/and-did-those-feet William of Malmesbury, a Glastonbury monk, wrote in 1137 of his church's founding by Christ's disciples. Then in 1247, a revised version of his history specified Joseph of Arimathea as their leader. This may very well be "pious fiction", but it is historical. ] (]) 05:31, 31 October 2008 (UTC)California Girl 21
{{Split section}}
:::Whatever, it is not history, but something in a historical document. Not the same thing. ] (]) 17:43, 5 November 2008 (UTC)


Avalon is referenced or serves as setting for many modern works of fiction or fantasy, including non-Arthurian French literature, folklore, and epic poems as well as in later works without other connections to King Arthur. Several examples are listed below.
== Verification ==


====Avalon in non-Arthurian French literature, folklore, and epic poems====
As far as I now, Geoffrey of Monmouth, Chretian de Troyes, and Sir Thomas Mallory were not adherents or proponents of the New Age, and and they are the sources for many of the assertions here. Geoffrey Ashe is also not a New Age figure, and the information here accords with much of his work. Sorry I cannot give you page numbers, but the general information presented here would be recognised in most Celtic Lit classes. Why is it inadmissible here? ] (]) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment was added at 19:45, 6 November 2008 (UTC).</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
Examples include:


* '']'' (an anonymous twelfth-century Old French '']'', in which appears the phrase ''por tot l'or d'Avalon'' "for all the gold of Avalon")<ref>Chambers, Edmund Kerchever. Arthur of Britain, Speculum Historiale, 1964, p. 219.</ref>
== questions ==
* The legends of ], who was taken there by the sorceress ] of Arthurian legend
* The legends of ]. It also recurs in a number of later works without other connections to King Arthur


====Avalon in modern fiction====
i have a few questions about this topic. i was looking up a series called "Avalon Web of Magic." i was wondering, first, is this even a book? if it is, should i read it? one more. Who is the author?
Avalon is a major setting for many modern works of fiction or fantasy. Several examples are listed below.
-dog lvr 12 <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 00:20, 29 November 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:This is not the appropriate page for such questions, please ask at one of our reference desks, probably ]. ] (]) 09:32, 29 November 2009 (UTC)


=====In comics=====
== ] and ] ==
* Marvel Comics has two different Avalons.
** In the ] comic-book franchise, the supervillain ] creates a floating asteroid named Avalon to be a sanctuary for mutants.
** ] is also a location that is based on the Arthurian Avalon and is part of the Otherworld.
* Avalon also appears in the ] ] book series, ].


=====In literature=====
''Now Euric, king of the Visigoths, perceived the frequent change of Roman Emperors and strove to hold Gaul by his own right. The Emperor Anthemius heard of it and asked the Brittones for aid. Their King Riotimus came with twelve thousand men into the state of the Bituriges by the way of Ocean, and was received as he disembarked from his ships.''
* ]'s '']'', {{ISBN|0345350499}}
* '']'' (1970-1991) by ] is a fantasy book series that references Avalon as shadow-kingdom formerly ruled by ], the protagonist of the first five novels.
* In Chapter 19 of ]' sixth ] novel, ''The Doomsday Key'' (2009), Father Rye and historian Wallace Boyd tell the group seeking the Doomsday Key that Bardsey Island was home to ] royalty and that ] was a famous ] priest, buried on sacred Bardsey Island with other prominent ]s. In the book's "Fact or Fiction" epilogue, Rollins writes: "] truly is Avalon. All the stories and mythologies of the island are accurate, including Merlin's tomb, Lord Newborough's Crypt, and the twenty thousand buried saints. Also, the Bardsey apple continues to grow, and cuttings can be purchased of this ancient tree. As to those nasty currents around the island, those are also real."<ref>{{cite book|author=Rollins, James|title=The Doomsday Key|date=2009|pages=Chapter 19 and Fact or Fiction}}</ref>
* In Poul Anderson's Technic History, Avalon is the name of a planet with a colony composed jointly of Humans and the eagle-like Ythrian aliens.
* In ]'s '']'' and '']'', Avallon is identified with ], the enchanted island nearest to the Blessed Land of ], inhabited by Elves. Avallónë is also the main elven city on Eressëa. When ] (Atlantis) sank into the ocean, the flat Middle-earth became spherical and Eressëa and Aman were removed into the world of the "Unseen", to prevent mortals from reaching them. Elves and specially blessed mortals can still sail there.


=====In television=====
''Euric, king of the Visigoths, came against them with an innumerable army, and after a long fight he routed Riotimus, King of the Britons, before the Romans could join him. So when he had lost a great part of his army, he fled with all the men he could gather together, and came to the Burgundians, a neighboring tribe then allied to the Romans. But Euric, king of the Visigoths, seized the Gallic city of Arverna; for the Emperor Anthemius was now dead.''
* Avalon has been referenced in the science-fiction television series '']'' (''see ]'').
* Avalon and many other Arthurian legends are referenced in the visual novel/anime "]"
* Avalon and many other Arthurian legends are referenced in Game ''] '' and ''] ''
* Avalon is the setting of the mid-1990s animated series '']''.
* Avalon is also visited by the protagonists during the Disney/Buena Vista animated series '']'', and is both the starting point and the core location of ] ] of the series. It's inhabited by ] and a clan of Gargoyles.
* Avalon (Avila) is the city in Spain that Cary Grant (British Officer), Frank Sinatra (Spaniard Revolutionary), and Sophia Loren (Love Interest and Revolutionary); must move a gigantic canon to fight the French.
* Avalon is featured in '']''. Guinevere once received special sand from ] that came from Avalon as part of a deal to complete Excalibur.
* Avalon is the home dimension of fairies in '']''.


=====In video games=====
], ], XLV, 237-238
* In the online game '']'', there is a playable world called Avalon.
* In the game '']'', Amelia goes through the ring to Avalon.
* In the game '']'', Avalon is the name of a hydroelectric dam and missile silo.
* In the game '']''.


====In music====
(Arvena is now Clermont-Ferrand. ] was Bishop there and was imprisoned by Euric before being restored. Gregory of Tours was born there, about seventy years after the events being described.)
] sings "I'm waiting for the angels of Avalon, waiting for the eastern glow." in the song "]", along with references to the Latin meaning of Avalon (apple): "The apples of the valley hold the seeds of happiness".


"]" is a song from the album "]", the eighth and final studio album released in May 1982, by ].
''The Britanni were driven from Bourges by the Goths, and many were slain at the village of Déols.''


"Isle of Avalon" is a song from the 2010 album "]" by the English heavy metal band ].
], , Book II, Chapter 18


The line "Sweet Avalon, the heat is on" is found in the track "A Call to Arms" from ]' first album.
Déols is close to Châteauroux, about 50km WSW of Bourges and 100km from Poitiers. It was part of ]'s .


'']'' is the nineteenth studio album by Northern Irish singer-songwriter ], released in 1989. Morrison also wrote the song "Avalon of the Heart", which was included on his next album '']'' in 1990.
Avallon is about 100km from Bourges in the opposite direction and about 100km south of ], likely birthplace of ]. ] (]) 10:48, 23 July 2010 (UTC)


"Avalon" is a song from the album '']'' by Swiss symphonic metal band ].
:Ummm...what is the point of posting this? Eleanor and Chretien had nothing to do with the creation of Avallon as a legendary island (which was poplarized by Geoffrey of Monmouth in the HRB). Furthermore, aside from the coincidental spellings of their names, there is no connection between the Gallic town of Avallon and the legendary, magical island of Avallon.] (]) 14:40, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
::Geoffrey Ashe, The Discovery of King Arthur, Guild Publishing, London, 1985. Page 95: "In Welsh it is Ynys Avallach. Geoffrey's Latin equivalent is ''Insula Avallonis''. But this is not really equivalent, since it doesn't correspond to the Welsh. It has been influenced by the spelling of a real place called Avallon. Avallon is a Gaulish name with the same meaning, and the real Avallon is in Burgundy - where Arthur's Gallic career ends. Again we glimpse an earlier and different passing of Arthur, on the Continent and not in Britain." ] (]) 14:58, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
:::You are just stretching the facts to support your hypothesis. the fact is, Geoffrey's Insula Avallonis was expressly located in the Western Ocean and not in France! Any one who has actually read his HRB and Vita Merlini would know this.] (]) 15:33, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
::::Calm down, Cagwinn. AJRG, there is room for mentioning Ashe's theory in the article, but the stuff about Eleanor and Chretien would certainly be ].--] ]/] 15:53, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::Chrétien de Troyes, , Vv. 1915-2024(part): ''Graislemier of Fine Posterne brought twenty companions, and had with him his brother Guigomar, lord of the Isle of Avalon. Of the latter we have heard it said that he was a friend of Morgan the Fay, and such he was in very truth.''
:::::One of Chrétien's was ], eldest daughter of Eleanor of Aquitaine. ] (]) 17:19, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
::::::What's your point?--] ]/] 17:34, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Which part of ''the stuff about Eleanor and Chrétien'' did you think was OR? ] (]) 19:20, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
::::::::The part that seems to suggest a connection between Eleanor and Chretien, and the Avalon story. I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.--] ]/] 20:54, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::Have a look at the first paragraph of ]...
:::::::::Geoffrey Ashe, The Discovery of King Arthur, Guild Publishing, London, 1985. Page 96: ''Riothamus too led an army of Britons into Gaul, and was the only British King who did. He too advanced to the neighbourhood of Burgandy. He too was betrayed by a deputy ruler who treated with barbarian enemies. He too is last located in Gaul among the pro-Roman Burgundians. He too disappears after a fatal battle, without any recorded death. The line of his retreat, prolonged on a map, shows that he was going in the direction of the real Avallon.'' ] (]) 22:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::For Eleanor of Aquitaine and Chrétien of Troyes, see Peter Dronke, The medieval poet and his world, Ed. di Storia e Letteratura, 1984, ] (]) 22:41, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::: Do you know when was the HRB written, or where Geoffrey lived? Do you know the floruit of Eleanor and Chretien and where they lived? What is the connection of the the latter two to the former?] (]) 03:37, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::This is Geoffrey Ashe's theory, so I don't need to defend it. Since you ask, though, the connection is Saint Gildas, or rather the monks of the abbey he founded at . Ashe op. cit. p 188: ''Early in the tenth century the monks fled from the Norse and traveled inland to central France - to Berry, in fact. Ebbon, the seigneur of the town of Déols, made them welcome and they settled nearby. When the danger was past they returned to Brittany.'' ] (]) 11:58, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::A fuller description (in French) is given at in BIBLIOTHEQUE DE L'ÉCOLE DES CHARTES XLVII (LIBRAIRIE d'Alphonse PICARD, RUE BONAPARTE, 82, PARIS, 1886) - search for ''Déols'' to find it. ] (]) 13:11, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::I'm sorry, but you are just talking in non sequitor's now. My point was that the HRB was written before the floruits of Eleanor and Chretien, so they have no bearing on the origin of the legend.] (]) 21:23, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Ashe's theory (as you don't appear to have read the book) is that there was an earlier version of the story already current in Burgundy, in which Riothamus ends up at Avallon, and the monks of Saint Gildas who took refuge at Déols could have taken the story back to Brittany. Geoffrey of Monmouth picked up the tale from his Breton sources, assumed that Riothamus was Arthur and either misinterpreted or reinterpreted Avallon as the Isle of Apples. Later, when HRB became popular, it sparked a creative explosion in the very area the story had originally come from, between Eleanor's court at Poitiers and her daughter Marie's court at Troyes. ] (]) 22:40, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::::I am quite familiar with Ashe's books - I first read Discovery of King Arthur in the late 80's, in fact. Things is, few modern scholars take his ideas seriously anymore (if they ever did in the first place - his work has always been considered rather fringe)...his Arthur = Riothamus hypothesis is a flimsy house of cards - in fact, it's rather ridiculous, of one looks at it objectively.] (]) 22:54, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::AJRG, you could have said that from the beginning and spared us a lot of confusion. As I said above we can include Ashe's theory, properly explained and cited, along with the theories and conclusions of other scholars. I certainly think Ashe is notable and respected enough to be included here, though Cagwinn is right that few other historians follow his Arthur=Riothamus theory (there's a good discussion of this in ]'s ''A History of Arthurian Scholarship'', readable .) Unfortunately this article needs a lot of other work too.--] ]/] 23:08, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
{{od}}To be fair, it's Geoffrey of Monmouth who appears to equate Riothamus with Arthur - Ashe points out (p90) that more than half of HRB is set in Gaul. I've taken the trouble to lay out some of the sources on which Ashe bases his argument, and I repeat from my original quote (see above): ''Avallon is a Gaulish name with the same meaning, and the real Avallon is in Burgundy - where Arthur's Gallic career ends. Again we glimpse an earlier and different passing of Arthur, on the Continent and not in Britain.'' ] (]) 23:33, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
:It's patently false to say that Geoffrey of Monmouth equated Arthur with Riothamus - he did no such thing.] (]) 02:39, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
::Since you're expressing such categoric opinions about Geoffrey of Monmouth, I'll challenge you on something I let ride earlier. Where does he expressly locate Insula Avallonis in the Western Ocean? Citation please. ] (]) 08:36, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
:::In the Vita Merlini, where Geoffrey adapts for Avallon Isidore's description of the western Fortunate Isles (Isidore says are "situated in the Ocean to the left of Mauretania, very near the west"; medieval geographers often identified with the Canary islands - Geoffrey has Morgen being able to instantly fly to French cities, so he likely imagined it as being off the coast of France). I added translations of the relevant passages from Geoffrey and Isidore to this very article some time ago - have you even read the entire thing?.] (]) 14:28, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
::::You've made my point for me. Isidore places the Fortunate Isles ''to the left of Mauretania'', but Geoffrey never does. ] (]) 16:00, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::You have got to be joking - there is no correlation whatsoever!! Do yourself a favor and read both Isidore's Etymologiae and Geoffrey's Vita Merlini - it has been recognized for quite some time now that Geoffrey adapted Isidore (or adapted ] , who copied Isidore nearly verbatim) for this particular section of the Vita - he mentions the same islands in the same order:


"Avalon" is a song on acoustic oriented band ]'s 2013 album ''Fiction Family Reunion''.<ref>{{cite web|title=Avalon Lyrics|url=http://www.metrolyrics.com/avalon-lyrics-fiction-family.html|publisher=Metrolyrics|accessdate=6 December 2014}}</ref>
:::::Isidore, Etymologia, 14, Ch. 6, De Insulis:
:::::
:::::(Sect. 8) Fortunatae insulae vocabulo suo significant omnia ferre bona, quasi felices, et beatae fructuum ubertate. Suapte enim natura pretiosarum poma siluarum parturiunt. Fortuitis uiribus iuga collium vestiuntur : ad herbarum vicem messis, et olus uulgo est: unde gentilium error, et secularium carmina poetarum propter soli fecunditatem easdem esse paradisum putauerunt. Sitae sunt autem in océano contra laeuam Mauritaniae, occiduo proximae, et inter se interiecto mari discretae
:::::
:::::"The name of the Isles of the Fortunate signifies that they bear all good things, as if happy and blessed in the abundance of their fruits. Serviceable by nature, they bring forth fruits of valuable forests; their hilltops are clothed with vines growing by chance; in place of grasses, there is commonly vegetable and grain. Pagan error and the songs of the secular poets have held that these islands to be Paradise because of the fecundity of the soil. Situated in the Ocean to the left of Mauretania, very near the west, they are separated by the sea flowing between them."
:::::
:::::
:::::=============================================================
:::::
:::::Geoffrey, Vita Merlini:
:::::
:::::insula Pomorum que Fortunata uocatur ex re nomen habet quia per se singula profert non opus est illi sulcantibus arua colonis omnis abest cultus nisi quem natura ministrant ultro fecundas segetes producit et uuas nataque poma suis pretonso germine siluis omnia gignit humus uice graminis ultro redundans annis centenis aut ultra uiuiter illic
:::::
:::::"The island of apples which men call “The Fortunate Isle” gets its name from the fact that it produces all things of itself; the fields there have no need of the ploughs of the farmers and all cultivation is lacking except what nature provides. Of its own accord it produces grain and grapes, and apple trees grow in its woods from the close-clipped grass. The ground of its own accord produces everything instead of merely grass, and people live there a hundred years or more." ] (]) 21:35, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
::::::Geoffrey adapts Isidore's description, but never the location... ] (]) 21:47, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Sorry, this is just a ridiculous argument - there is no reason to believe that Geoffrey changed the location of the Fortunate Isles - in fact, he has Barrinthus lead Taliesin and Arthur there - Barrinthus (or Barrindus) is a character borrowed from the popular Navigation of St. Brendan, in which it is stated that he found Paradise (Terra Re-promissionis Sanctorum, "Land of Promise of the Saints") on an island in the WESTERN OCEAN and inspired St. Brendan to also find it. For Geoffrey, Avallon was an Island in the Atlantic ocean - not a town in Gaul!] (]) 23:39, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::::: doesn't mention an Isle of Apples, which in Irish tradition was Emain Ablach - usually part of the Otherworld. ] (]) 06:49, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::That is totally besides the point! The Terra Re-promissionis Sanctorum was an island paradise (noted for its eternal abundance of fruit! ''Porro ascendentibus de navi viderunt terram speciosam ac plenam arboribus '''POMIFERIS''' sicut in tempore autumnali'') that is described in much the same manner as Isidore and Geoffrey's Fortunate Isles, as well as Emain Ablach.] (]) 01:43, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::''When they had disembarked, they saw a land, extensive and thickly set with trees, laden with fruits, as in the autumn season.'' Called neither Insula Avallonis nor Insula Pomorum nor Insula Fortunata. Is there a secondary source for this speculation, or is it just OR? ] (]) 08:31, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::Terra Re-promissionis Sanctorum was called Tir Taingire ("Land of Promise") in Irish; it was identified with Emain Ablach in some Irish tales (for example, as A.G. van Hamel pointed out in "The Celtic Grail." Revue Celtique 47. 340-82, "n Altrom Tight dâ Medar he is also said to reside at Emain Ablach in Tir Tairngire"). You seem not to have noticed that the word pomum "fruits, apples" (either alone, or in compound form) is used in all of the Latin sources that I have thus far quoted.] (]) 01:41, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::''Apple'' in Latin is ''malum'', and ''apple-bearing'' is ''maliferum''. I realise that ''pomme'' means ''apple'' in French, but in Latin ''pomum'' usually just means ''fruit''. ] (]) 08:34, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Latin pomum also meant apple - in fact, thus word gace us the word for apples in many Romance languages (Catalan: poma, French: pomme, Italian: pomo, Occitan: poma, Romanian: poamă, Sicilian: pummu). Late Gaulish ''auallo'' was glossed as ''poma'' in the Endlicher Glossary (compiled in Late Antiquity).] (]) 12:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Use in later languages is immaterial. The Gaulish derivation, though, is solid. makes the connection. ] (]) 13:47, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
::The Life of Saint Goeznovius is the first source to associate Arthur with victories in Gaul, but adds no details. Chapter 4 of , however, introduces this: ''As soon as all the forces were arrived where Arthur expected, he marched from thence to Augustodunum, where he supposed the general was. But when he came to the river Alba, he had intelligence brought him of his having encampled not far off, and that he was come with so vast an army, that he would not be able to withstand it.'' Augustodunum is ] in Burgundy, and this passage bears comparison with the quote from Jordanes given above. ] (]) 09:39, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
:::It should be painfully obvious that "bears comparison with the quote from Jordanes" is not the same thing as "equated Arthur with Riothamus".] (]) 14:28, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
::::You'll note that I actually wrote ''"appears to equate Riothamus with Arthur"''. You want to compare Geoffrey of Monmouth's description of the Fortunate Isles with that of Isidore, yet you reject Ashe's comparison of Geoffrey's description of the British campaign in Burgundy with that of Jordanes. ] (]) 16:00, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
::::The similarity was raised as early as 1175 by a monk of Ursicampum (Ourscamp Abbey - 100km NNE of Paris) who added a note to the chronicle of Sigebert of Gembloux. Robert Huntington Fletcher's (1906) says: ''The monk of Ursicampum suggests the possible identity of Arthur with Riothimir.'' Sharon Turner's (1799), citing the chronicle, is explicit: ''Either this Riothamus was Arthur, or it was from his expedition that Jeffry, or the Breton bards, took the idea of Arthur's battles in Gaul.'' ] (]) 08:44, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::So what? Neither individual knew Geoffrey or where he got the idea for this part of the HRB. Even if they were right and Geoffrey did use Riothamus as his model, this would still have no bearing on the origin of the Isle of Avallon as an otherworldly paradise.] (]) 01:43, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
::::::An otherworldly paradise doesn't have a physical location. Riothamus was a historical person who existed in a definite time and place. I've quoted you three secondary sources connecting Arthur with Riothamus, and one (Ashe) connecting Avalon with Avallon. If there's a secondary source supporting your position, this would be a good time to provide it. ] (]) 08:31, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Basil Clarke, Life of Merlin: Vita Merlini Cardiff: University of Wales Press, 1973, p. 8, p. 147, et al.; John Jay Parry, Vita Merlini, BiblioBazaar, 2008 (orig. ed. 1925), p. 51.; Howard Rollin Patch, The other world, according to descriptions in medieval literature, Harvard University Press, 1950, p. 285. John Koch (ed.), Celtic Culture: a historical encyclopedia, ABC-CLIO, 2006, p. 1026. I can list more, if you like.] (]) 19:31, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Relevant quotes? Celtic culture p 1026 just says ''Isidore was also used as a source for Geoffrey of Monmouth's Taliesin discourses in the Vita Merlini''. ] (]) 22:11, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::The Taliesin discourse mentioned by Koch includes the section on islands that we are discussing. Here are some quotes culled from the sources given by me above.
:::::::::Parry, Vita Merlini:
:::::::::p. 45, n. 47. "The account of the islands is from Isidore, XIV, vi."
:::::::::P. 45, n. 48. "The description of the Fortunate Isles comes largely from classical tradition (much of it is to be found in Isidore), but it seems to be influenced by Celtic legends of the happy otherworld."
:::::::::
:::::::::Clarke, Vita Merlini,
:::::::::P. 8. "Isidore was apparently consulted at first hand, to judge from the correspondence of most of the examples listed in VM, especially the islands and springs, in the order and content of the items, provided one accepts some simple assumptions about minor alterations. For example, the Fortunate Isles are displaced because, one says, Geoffrey wanted them at the end to lead into the passage about Morgen's island and Arthur."
:::::::::P. 8. "Geoffrey was on on the whole faithful in presenting such conventional material , turning it into pleasant verse without transforming it altogether."
:::::::::P. 147, n. 908-940. "Island of Apples (Fortunate) Isidore's description in full (14.16.8)."
:::::::::
:::::::::How much longer do you want to play this game? ] (]) 01:13, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::An otherworld Avalon clearly doesn't have a physical location... ] (]) 08:34, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::You're blowing my mind....a mystical otherworld in a work of fiction (Historia Regum Britanniae), inhabited by fairies who make magical swords and heal terminally wounded kings, doesn't actually exist in our physical world??? Wow.] (]) 12:48, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::Not in the Western Ocean. Geoffrey manages to avoid ever saying that, however much it might be implied. ] (]) 13:47, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::::This is really inane. Ashe's theory has been added to the article, what more is being accomplished by this discussion?--] ]/] 17:40, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
{{od}}This isn't about Ashe's theory - that was already in the article, but not properly referenced. The rest of the theories now need references. For the record, we've just established (see Clark Harris Slover reference, above) that Late Gaulish ''auallo'' was glossed as ''poma'' in the Endlicher Glossary, so the Etymology section probably needs updating. ] (]) 18:51, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::This is getting silly. I think we all agree that Ashe's idea can be included here, if it's properly cited and explained. What we can't do is present the idea as if it were correct. Let's also try to stay on track here, this isn't an article on Arthur or Riothamus, it's specifically on Avalon, so the only part of the theory that has any bearing is the supposed Avalon-Avallon connection.--] ]/] 12:43, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
::::::Shouldn't we let cagwinn speak for himself? I've given you plenty of references - feel free to add any of them to the article. ] (]) 13:13, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::::He is speaking for himself. But bottom line is, our opinions don't really matter, all that matters is what the reliable sources say (the secondary sources, not the primary sources, which are open to interpretation). And no, I'm not going to add Ashe to the article myself, I don't have the book.--] ]/] 13:21, 26 July 2010 (UTC)


"Back to Avalon" is a song on the album '']'' by rock group ].
== Etymology ==


"Avalon" is the title of a song on the album Axis Mundi (2015) by ].
] (]) just a referenced change without explanation, and deleted a whole set of ''citation needed'' tags for unreferenced material. What was your reasoning for this? ] (]) 06:32, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
:Your edits had factual errors and you attempted to completely change the etymology of the name based on a single, somewhat antiquated source whose hypothesis has not gained wide acceptance among modern scholars.] (]) 13:49, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
::If you think there are errors, point them out. Removing ''citation needed'' tags is poor practice. The present text is unreferenced, so what source are you using to support your position? ] (]) 15:05, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
:::Thanks for adding references - quotes would be really helpful. H Zimmer 1890 would seem to invite the word "antiquated" which you used above for CH Slover 1931, and JJH Savage 1942 is only just more modern. I'm intrigued by your citation from the 13th century Perlesvaus - what does it say? ] (]) 20:56, 31 July 2010 (UTC)


"Avalon" is mentioned in the song "Southern Cross" by Crosby, Stills, and Nash.
== Alvion ==


"Avalon" is a song on the album '']'' by power metal group ].
Avalon is a mis-pronuncition of Alvion/Albion and Alba/Alva. It means 'white' and has nothing to do with 'apples'. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 05:39, 22 August 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Find some reliable sources putting this forward as an alternative etymology and we can put them in the article. ] (]) 06:09, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
::No reliable sources will be found for this, because it is pure nonsense.] (]) 14:02, 22 August 2010 (UTC)


"Avalon" is a song on the soundtrack for the ] 2012 anime.
== Merger proposal ==


"Sail Away to Avalon" is a song on the first ] album, '']''.
I suggest merging ] with ].&mdash; ] <sup>]</sup> 09:35, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


"Avalon" is the title of an album released in 2014 by ] ].
*'''Support''' It would appear that what that article is calling "Isle of Avalon" is just the area where ] is, which was once an island. The name doesn't appear to be in common use, and is derivative of the ] of Arthurian legend. ] is a very plausible search term for Avalon.] ]/] 14:28, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Don't see any reason for two articles. ] (]) 05:37, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
::*OK I've merged in ] which now redirects here, and removed the merge banners.&mdash; ] <sup>]</sup> 10:16, 4 July 2011 (UTC)


Rivers of Avalon is a song by the ], released as a b-side to ]
== Citing "afall" as ] ==


The Avalon Guitar Company crafts stringed instruments in Ireland.
I have changed the word "afall" to "afallen" a couple of times now, as it currently states that the word means "apple tree" in ] - this word is no longer used in modern Welsh as is spoken today. A user quoted ''Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru'' as a source; s/he is correct - 'afall' is in there, and so is 'afallen' (see , page 129). The first instance of 'afall' was noted in 1606 (the ], and 'afallen' first noted in 1866 (the ]) - 260 years later. For this reason alone, the word "afall" is not modern Welsh (there's a time difference of 115 years between now and the fist appearance of afallen; which is less time than between the development between both words!). Neither does the BBC, Y Termiadur, Google Translate, nor Y Gronfa Genedlaethol o Dermau understand the word 'afall' as it's not modern, everyday, in-current-use Welsh. Y Geiriadur Mawr lists it with an asterisk, noting that it's an obsolete word. We have one of two options: change the article text to cite "early modern Welsh" or change 'afall' to 'afallen' (which is how it currently stands). I'm not sure if the other use speaks Welsh, but I do - I also teach it. A friend once said to me, "Dyw iaith ddim yn dirywio, ond yn datblygu," which means, "A language doesn't deteriorate, but develops" - this is an example of a late modern Welsh word developing into a current modern Welsh word. -- ''']''' ('']'' • '']'') 00:16, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
:Welsh afall "apple-tree" (early Old Welsh/Cornish/Breton aball , is an ancient word, with inter-Celtic cognates attested in Breton, Cornish, Irish, and Gaulish, along with cognates in several other Indo-European languages) is believed by many scholars to be the word that Geoffrey of Monmouth used to create the name Insula Avallonis, which he calls in the ''Vita Merlini'' Insula Pōmorum ("Isle of the Fruit Trees", from pōmus "fruit tree"). That the word may be obsolete in 21st century Welsh is besides the point (since it only needed to have survived into the 12th century, for Geoffrey to have known it); but in fact, it did survive into the Modern Welsh period (which began c. 1500 AD), as is proved by the Modern Welsh proverb "''ni phell ddigwydd afal o afall''" - "the apple will not fall far from the tree". Afallen is a derivative of afall. ] (]) 15:46, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
::If it's old Welsh, then why is it referred to as modern Welsh in the article? It's not beside the point when it wrongly referenced. I understand that it's the derivative, so it should be stated as such in the article. As it stands, it is misleading on etymology. As for the proverb, I've never come across, and can only find one source of it (). Neither is it references in Y Geiriadur Idiomau. -- ''']''' ('']'' • '']'') 16:21, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
::NOTE: I'm not disputing the fact that afall means apple tree, I'm disputing the fact that it's modern Welsh. -- ''']''' ('']'' • '']'') 16:22, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
:::Utter nonsense. Though it may no longer be commonly used in today's dialects, the word was still used during in modern Welsh period (c. 1500-today, as is proved by its use in the proverb that I cited, as well as the attestations listed in the GPC); this is confirmed by the word's appearance in several Modern Welsh dictionaries. Please do not remove the word from the article again!] (]) 18:12, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
::::No it's not. It's not in common use as it's not modern Welsh, not because it belongs to a particular dialect. 15th century Welsh is not modern Welsh, it's late middle Welsh. Modern Welsh is Welsh of the 19th C, and "afall" is not in use in the 19th C. I'll not remove the word but I will revert it back to my last edit, which explains the difference in old, middle, and modern Welsh uses of "apple tree." Perhaps to a non-Welsh speaker this isn't confusing (not insinuating you), as they wouldn't be aware of the current developments, but as a Welsh speaker I'm left wondering, "Why is afall cited as modern Welsh? The Welsh word for apple tree is afallen." Again, if a pupil writes afall instead of afallen, I'd have to mark it wrong, as it's a obsolete. Can you supple names of these dictionaries, please? -- ''']''' ('']'' • '']'') 22:53, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::You really don't know what you are talking about and you are doing harm to this article - congratulations! ] (]) 15:25, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::I assume that you don't know how to conduct a Google search (since you do not seem to be aware of the several dictionaries that cite afall as a Modern Welsh word), so I am providing you with a link to one: . You also continue to ignore the proverb that I cited above, which is more certainly Modern Welsh, not Middle Welsh. And finally, the Modern Welsh period is generally accepted by linguists as having begun begun c. 1500. See: . ] (]) 15:44, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
::::::Rhoddaf y gorau iddi. Roeddwn yn meddwl fy mod innau yn ystyfnig, ond dyna ni. I give up. I thought I was stubborn, but here we are. Thanks for the Google book search. I had conducted one, and you'll fine that proves more hits for "afallen" than "afall". I've already addressed your proverb. For your ease, I'll repeat (which is what I seem to be doing again and again): As for the proverb, I've never come across, and can only find one source of it (). Neither is it references in Y Geiriadur Idiomau. I assume you don't speak Welsh, and are not familiar with the language as it is in it's present form. So I'll say it again: aball IS NOT USED in modern Welsh, so it's WRONGLY stated in the article. "Generally," though not definitely.... Doesn't that book you cited say, and I quote, "... vary somewhat among the experts..."? Though I guess you just ignored that bit, like everything else I've said here? -- ''']''' ('']'' • '']'') 16:00, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::::You have got to be kidding me - you entire argument is based on anecdotal evidence - just because you have not encountered this admittedly obscure word in conversation or in your Welsh classes at school, does not mean that the word did not survive into the Modern Welsh period. The word is listed in several Modern Welsh dictionaries, including the granddaddy of them all, the GPC, it popped up in the proverb cited above, and its plural form, efyll, appears in Modern Welsh poetry:
::::::::Lewys Morys (mid-18th century), ''Tôn'':
:::::::::Os dont i Arfon rhag y grôg
:::::::::Ac ergyd rôg i irgyll,
:::::::::Ni fynwn wdyn yn eu hoed,
:::::::::I'w difa ar goed '''EFYLL''';
:::::::::neu gwest o longwyr o sir fon
:::::::::I grogi lladron Grigyll
::::::::Also, in the 16th century poem "Y Gelynnen" (Anonymous?(:
:::::::::A chyda'r rhain y wernen,
:::::::::Cyll ac '''EFYLL''', aethwydd, llwy'
:::::::::
::::::::So, can you please stop with the nonsense? ] (]) 17:54, 22 June 2011 (UTC)


Flogging Molly sings "Up to heaven and past Avalon" in 'Devil's Dance Floor' off of their album "Swagger"
I've never denied the existence of the word. I'm merely stating that it's not used anymore, and therefore isn't modern Welsh. I suppose I, and the rest of the Welsh speaking world, have a different opinion. Like I said, rhoddaf y gorau iddi - keep it as it is. It's been fun "debating" with you. Just as a side, do you speak Welsh? It'd be nice to know other Welsh speakers here on en. -- ''']''' ('']'' • '']'') 22:31, 22 June 2011 (UTC)


Avalon is a song on the 1999 album ] by ].
== The historical parallel ==


=== Avalon (disambiguation) ===
The historical parallel of Avalon: a peninsula Obolon on the Dnieper River (in Kiev) The Obolon - a name from ancient times. First mentioned in chronicles 1096. This a peninsula was a favorite place of hunting and recreation for the Kings of Kiev. See photos on the Internet, as well as the history of Obolon http://uk.wikipedia.org/Оболонь_(місцевість_Києва) .--] (]) 23:38, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
for convenience I'm copying this here temporarily - some of the material above is already on the dab page


== Books
:There is no "historical" parallel - Avalon was invented as a magical, otherworldly island by a medieval writer of fiction (Geoffrey of Monmouth); the fact that its name resembles other, real places around the globe is completely coincidental. ] (]) 17:02, 16 February 2014 (UTC)


Avalon (novel), a 1965 novel by Anya Seton
== Connection to Sicily ==
Avalon Series, a series of novels by Marion Zimmer Bradley
Avalon: Web of Magic, a series of children's fantasy novels by the American author Rachel Roberts


Films
There are so many sources that speak of Sicily and Etna about Avalon.--] (]) 07:37, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
Avalon (1990 film), directed by Barry Levinson
Avalon (2001 film), a Japanese/Polish film directed by Mamoru Oshii


Comics
::The island of Sicily is Avalon .. this is a historical truth.--] (]) 12:02, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
Avalon (webcomic), written by Josh Phillips
Avalon (DC Comics), a fictional planet
Avalon (Marvel Comics), a fictional island


Games
== Connection to Glastonbury ==
Avalon The 3D Adventure Movie, a 1984 computer game released on the ZX Spectrum by Hewson in the 1980s
Avalon (MUD), a text-based online game series
Avalon, a King Arthur-themed variant to the game The Resistance
Avalon, the first stage in Gaiapolis
Avalon Centrifuge, a character in the video game LittleBigPlanet 2
Avalon, a world in the online game of Wizard101


MusicBands and performers
Two different IPs have removed the whole section on "Connection to Glastonbury". Could we have other opinions on whether to keep or delete this section?] ] 09:48, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
Avalon (Finnish band), a Finnish metal opera project
:Looks like it's just one person editing from Milan. I've semi-protected for 2 days. I see no reason to remove it. ] (]) 11:17, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
Avalon (American group), a contemporary Christian music group
::this is an encyclopedia not a tourist brochure: ""Connection to Glastonbury"", U.F.O,
Avalon (Scottish band), a Celtic-rock group formerly known as The Medium Wave Band
This is a tourist brochure:
Avalon (Swedish group), a musical duo made up of the Swedish-Congolese brothers Djo and Mohombi Moupondo
"" The burial discovery ensured that in later romances, histories based on them and in the popular imagination Glastonbury became increasingly identified with Avalon, an identification that continues strongly today. The later development of the legends of the Holy Grail and Joseph of Arimathea by Robert de Boron interconnected these legends with Glastonbury and with Avalon, an identification which also seems to be made in Perlesvaus. The popularity of Arthurian Romance has meant this area of the Somerset Levels has today become popularly described as The Vale Of Avalon. In more recent times writers such as Dion Fortune, John Michell, Nicholas Mann and Geoffrey Ashe have formed theories based on perceived connections between Glastonbury and Celtic legends of the otherworld and Annwn in attempts to link the location firmly with Avalon, drawing on the various legends based on Glastonbury Tor as well as drawing on ideas like Earth mysteries, Ley lines and even the myth of Atlantis. Arthurian literature also continues to use Glastonbury as an important location as in The Mists of Avalon, A Glastonbury Romance and The Bones of Avalon. Even the fact Somerset has many apple orchards has been drawn in to support the connection. Glastonbury's connection to Avalon continues to make it a site of tourism and the area has great religious significance for Neopagans, Neo-druids and as a New Age community, as well as Christians. Hippy identification of Glastonbury with Avalon seen in the work of Michell and in Gandalf's Garden also helped inspire the Glastonbury Festival.""
Frankie Avalon (born 1940), American actor, singer, and former teen idol
Mickey Avalon (born 1975), rapper


Albums
Atlantis??????????????
Avalon (Roxy Music album), a 1982 album by British group Roxy Music
Holy Grail=Glastonbury=AVALON?
Avalon (Avalon album), a 1996 self-titled album by Avalon
Glastonbury Festival is AVALON?--] (]) 11:50, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
Avalon (Anthony Green album), Anthony Green's 2008 solo debut album
Avalon (Sully Erna album), a 2010 album by Godsmack singer Sully Erna
Avalon (soundtrack), the original soundtrack of the 1990 film Avalon
Avalon Los Angeles CA 24/06/06, a 2006 live 2-disc recording by Sasha (DJ)


Songs
:::I agree that it should be removed.] (]) 16:15, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
"Avalon" (Al Jolson song), 1920
"Avalon" (Roxy Music song), 1982
"Avalon", a 1999 song by Sigur Rós from the album Ágætis byrjun
"Avalon", a 1999 song by Blackmore's Night from the album Under a Violet Moon
"Avalon" a 2005 song by Juliet Richardson
"Avalon" (Lovebugs song), 2006
"Avalon", a 2010 song by Bad Religion from the album "The Dissent of Man"
"Avalon" (Professor Green song), 2011
"Isle of Avalon", a 2010 song from Iron Maiden's album The Final Frontier
"Avalon", a 2014 song from Slash featuring Myles Kennedy and the Conspirators' album World on Fire


Businesses
::::] - all of it? Why? The IP wants the entire connections to Glastonbury section removed, see . ] (]) 21:00, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
Avalon Books, a New York-based book publishing imprint (1950-2012), purchased by Amazon.com
Avalon Publishing Group (1994–2007), a New York publisher, absorbed by Perseus Books Group
Avalon Guitars, a Northern Ireland guitar manufacturer
Avalon hotel (Gothenburg), Sweden
Avalon Hotel (Rochester, Minnesota), USA
Chateau Avalon, Kansas City, Kansas, USA, a luxury hotel and bed & breakfast
Avalon Interactive, a now-defunct video game distribution company
Avalon Mall, St. Johns, Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada
Avalon Rare Metals, a mineral development company focused on rare metal deposits in Canada
Avalon Studios, a film and television studio, located in Avalon, New Zealand
Avalon Waterways, an American ship and river cruise line owned by Globus
Radio Avalon, originally a pirate radio station near Glastonbury, England in 1983, later a legally recognised station


Organizations
:::::While it certainly is appropriate to mention that in later tradition (likely based on propaganda spread by the cash-hungry clerics at Glastonbury abbey; on this subject, I can recommend that folks read the various articles contained in: James P. Carley, Glastonbury Abbey and the Arthurian Tradition, Boydell & Brewer, 2001) Glastonbury became associated with Avalon, most of the material that was removed is entirely superfluous to this article. ] (]) 22:01, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
The Avalon Foundation, founded by Ailsa Mellon-Bruce in 1940 and later merged into the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation
Avalon Historico-Geographical Society, based in Karaganda, Kazakhstan


PlacesAustralia
:::::Glad you agree that the later tradition should be included. I haven't read the Carley book. ] (]) 08:02, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
Avalon, New South Wales
Avalon, Victoria
Avalon Airport, Victoria


Canada
== "Connection to Sicily" or "Connection to Glastonbury" ? ==
Avalon Peninsula, Newfoundland
Avalon (electoral district), Newfoundland
Province of Avalon, Newfoundland
Avalon, Ottawa, a neighborhood in a suburb of the city of Ottawa, Ontario
Avalon, Saskatoon, a neighbourhood in the city of Saskatoon, Saskatchewan


United States
The island of Sicily has always been identified with Avalon.
Avalon (Birmingham, Alabama), listed on the National Register of Historic Places
According to the sources, and especially the history of Europe, Sicily is Avalon.
Avalon, California, the only city on Santa Catalina Island
All this by the Normans and also in subsequent periods throughout Europe.
Avalon, Georgia, a town
On Glastonbury there is nothing of all this, but only an imaginary urban legend based on a false history of the Middle Ages for economic purposes.--] (]) 13:37, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
Avalon (Alpharetta, Georgia), a planned mixed-use development
Avalon (New Windsor, Maryland), a historic home listed on the NRHP
Avalon, Mississippi, an unincorporated community
Avalon, Missouri, an unincorporated community
Avalon, New Jersey, a barrier island resort community
Avalon, Pennsylvania, a borough
Avalon, Texas, an unincorporated community
Avalon, Virginia, an unincorporated community
Avalon, Wisconsin, an unincorporated community
Avalon State Park, North Hutchinson Island, Florida
Mount Avalon, New Hampshire
Avalon Dam, on the Pecos River near Carlsbad, New Mexico


Elsewhere
: Hold on, since "Avalon" is a legend to begin with, we're never going to pinpoint a real location for it. All we can say is "people have identified it with this place" and "people have identified it with that place". The proponents of Sicily need to assemble their sources and then expand the "Connection to Sicily" section, to sit alongside the "Connection to Glastonbury" section, which should certainly remain even if edited down somewhat for the sake of balance with the rest of the article] ] 14:25, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
Avalon, France, a village outside of Pontcharra, Isère
Avalon, New Zealand, a suburb of Lower Hutt
Avalon graveyard, in Soweto, South Africa


Schools
::: OK, Avalon is a legend but in the Middle Ages Sicily has historically identified with Avalon from all over Europe. The "Connection to Glastonbury" section is misleading..the tradition of Glastonbury, the Holy Grail and its strange connections are out of place here ... maybe it would be better to insert them into the city page "Glastonbury", so encyclopedic and non-touristy. On this page you can make a mention of this tradition, but without a section with the name "Connection to Glastonbury" ... no connection with Glastonbury.--] (]) 15:42, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
Avalon School (California)
Avalon School, in St. Paul, Minnesota
The Avalon School, a private school in Mongomery County, Maryland


Technology
:::: You write "...in the Middle Ages Sicily has historically identified with Avalon from all over Europe." Care to provide a source for that? Just because a Sicilian ] was popularly associated with Morgan le Fay by the (Arthurian-lit-loving) Normans who conquered Sicily doesn't mean that Avalon was identified with Sicily "all over Europe". The man who gave us Avalon, Geoffrey of Monmouth, tacitly identified it with the Canary Islands.] (]) 16:16, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
Avalon Project, a digital library of documents held by the Yale Law School
Avalon, the codename for Windows Presentation Foundation, a user interface API designed by Microsoft
Apache Avalon, a computer software framework
Avalon switch fabric, the peripheral interface used in Altera's Nios II embedded processor

Television
"Avalon" (Stargate SG-1), the first two episodes of the ninth season of Stargate SG-1
Avalon, a character from the popular TV show Winx Club

Transportation
Avalon Boulevard, a north-south thoroughfare in Los Angeles County
Avalon (Los Angeles Metro station), on the Metro Green Line
Avalon (RTA Rapid Transit station), a station stop on the RTA Blue Line in Cleveland, Ohio
Toyota Avalon, a sedan car
USS Avalon, several US Navy ships
SS Avalon, several ships
Belle of Louisville, a steamboat formerly named Avalon
Avalon Airport in Victoria, Australia

Venues and movie theaters
The Avalon, San Francisco, California
Avalon Theater (disambiguation)

Other uses
Avalon Roberts (born 1945), Canadian psychiatrist and political activist

See also
Avalonia or Avalon terrane, an ancient microcontinent
Avallon, Burgundy, France, a commune
:] ] 14:36, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
{{reflist-talk}}

== Vanity press ==

reintroduced a self-published source from the best known vanity press in the world. At no point has anyone produced evidence that this book, unusually among the self-published books from that company, is a valid reference. It's also redundant per multiple other references. I removed it again. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 19:58, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

: Throop qualifies as a reliable source (see the second bullet below), despite this book being self-published, per ], which I have already brought to your attention:

<blockquote>
:: Self-published sources are largely not acceptable on Misplaced Pages, though there are exceptions. And even though a self-published source might be acceptable, a non-self-published source is usually preferred, if available. Examples of acceptable sourcing of self-published works:
::
:: # A self-published source may be used for certain claims by the author about himself, herself, or itself. (See ])
:: ''# Self-published sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article whose work '''in the relevant field''' has previously been published by reliable third-party publications.<ref name="EXCEPTIONAL">Please do note that any exceptional claim would require ]</ref> Take care when using such sources: if the information in question is really worth reporting, someone else will probably have done so.<ref>Further examples of self published sources include press releases, material contained within company websites, advertising campaigns, material published in media by the owner(s)/publisher(s) of the media group, self-released music albums and ]:</ref>''
:: # A self-published work may be used as a source when the statement concerns ''the source itself.'' For example, for the statement "The organization purchased full-page advertisements in major newspapers advocating gun control," the advertisement(s) in question could be cited as sources, even though advertisements are self-published.
</blockquote>

:: Throop is an acknowledged expert in the field . ] (]) 20:42, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
{{reflist-talk}}
::: So, you quote-mined the guideline and picked out the bits that support you while studiously ignoring the vast majority that does not. You see where it says "even though a self-published source might be acceptable, a non-self-published source is usually preferred, if available"? We have non-self-published sources. The vanity press book is a source only for the fact that its author said this, and that would require reliable independent third party sources to establish significance. Right now, inclusion rests solely on ''your'' assertion that this author's view is significant in context and ''your'' view that in the absence of any third party source, it can be taken from the ] ]. Primary self-published sources for opinions are legitimate only when discussing those opinions in articles about the person and where the opinions are uncontroversial. This is not an article about the person, and that means there have to be reliable independent secondary sources establishing the significance of this person's view on this specific matter. And that is absolutely standard Misplaced Pages practice. Now go and take it out again until you find those sources. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 21:14, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

:::: You don't even know what your arguing about do you? I have been studying this topic for OVER THIRTY YEARS!!! Throop's translation is accurate (though, as you can see, I replaced it - PER YOU REQUEST!!!), as was the assertion about the ancient and medieval identification of the Fortunate Isles with the Carnary islands (as the added citations prove - and I can find many more for you!!!), and Throop meets WP guidelines on self-published authors, as I have noted above. Just concede the point and move on, before we have to escalate this into WP bureaucratic hell. ] (]) 21:28, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
::::: Yes, I do. I am arguing about Misplaced Pages policy. You, however, appear not to have understood the point here. You want to include Throop's views sourced to a self-published book. In order to include her views you need to show that Throop's opinions on this are cited in reliable independent sources, and you need to source her views to those reliable independent sources not to a primary, self-published source. That would not be necessary if this was an article ''about Throop'', but it isn't. That's how Misplaced Pages works. It'as how Misplaced Pages has ''always'' worked. SHOUTING AT THE ADMINS is not how Misplaced Pages works, because we ignore it. Read ] and ], not, as you did last time, looking for excuses to get what you want, but instead with an eye to understanding them holistically. Reliable independent secondary sources is one of the first things the community agreed on when Misplaced Pages was founded, and a source has to check '''all three''' boxes: reliable, secondary '''and independent'''. Self-published sources usually fail the first and always the third, this case also fails the second. You make a fair case for reliable but that's a stool with one leg. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 09:37, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

:::: By the way - Priscilla Throop is cited as a source IN MANY WIKIPEDIA ARTICLES, as will demonstrate. ] (]) 21:33, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
::::: See above: irrelevant. ]. Reliable. Independent. Secondary. None of these is optional. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 09:41, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
:::::: This is beyond ridiculous. You are only interested in "winning", not in maintaining the integrity of the article. Throop is a reliable source who is cited in many WP articles. She meets WP guidelines regarding self-published authors (she is not exclusively self-published and was published by a very reliable publishing house). Her translation is accurate, as is her comment about the Canary islands. Her citation will ultimately remain. ] (]) 17:56, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
::::::: You do not appear to be reading what I write, or the guidelines you reference. Read again: ]: reliable, independent, secondary. All three must be there. You're looking to include the opinion of someone you claim to be an authority on this subject (which may be accurate, but being quoted on Misplaced Pages can also be an indication of assiduous self-promotion, in case you're not aware). My point, and the point of the relevant guidelines, is that if this opinion is significant and important, ''it will be cited in reliable independent secondary sources''. There should be no need to cite a primary self-published source for an opinion that is widely held up as significant. And the onus is firmly on you to achieve consensus for inclusion of disputed material. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 19:33, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

== "It's directly related, has been commented on by many Arthurian scholars" ==

How exactly? And a lot of absolute crap "has been in the article for years". Look at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Avalon&oldid=723542980 It was me who cleaned up this mess. Please revert yourself or provide the actual "commentaery by Arthurian scholars" about how Avalon might be the Canaries or whatever (I don't know). ] (]) 20:21, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

: I am not reverting it; it has valid source citations and, as I mentioned, has been a part of the article for years now. It is important that it remains here, because nutjobs who want to make Avalon a town in Britain or France conveniently ignore the fact that Geoffrey clearly states Avalon is an island in the Western Ocean and that Geoffrey, for his description of the isle, simply re-phrased Isidore's entry on the Fortunate Isles (which were commonly identified with the Canary Islands in antiquity, all the way through the middle ages - go ahead and check some medieval maps!). Geoffrey was not only influenced by Isidore, but also by medieval hagiography (for example, the ''Navigatio Sancti Brendani'') in which the Fortunate Isle(s) (with varying names) frequently appear. ] (]) 20:36, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
: I have just now added numerous new sources to the paragraph. ] (]) 21:11, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

== Two sections moved here from other pages ==

Hello, I moved two sections from other pages to this Talk section because they describe modern media depictions of the Arthurian Avalon. I added them into the modern media section above. They are Avalon in Disney's Gargoyles (moved from the Avalon disambiguation page), and the mention of Tol Eressea by J.R.R. Tolkien, moved from the Fortunate Isles page since Tolkien didn't actually use the Fortunate Isles, he only used Avalon and Atlantis.
I do think the modern media section should be restored to the main page. I don't see why it was removed. Including a link to the page about the book, movie, or TV series in question seems like a legitimate reference to me. ] (]) 14:54, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

== Unsourced lines from the lead ==

First referred to as "Avallus" by ] in his Natural History (IV, 95) in the 1st century CE, it was described as a mysterious island where amber could be found. Later described by the poet ] in the 6th century CE (some people associate Taliesin with the mythical bard ]) as the “Island of Apples” where life is eternal and fruits are always ripe. ] (]) 11:58, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

== Avalon is not a legendary ciry ==

Avalon isn't a legendary city it's on an island!! So I feel like you should change that and it's really helpful so I feel like you should do that

Sincerely,Ezra ] (]) 18:20, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

:The article describes Avalon as "a mythical island", and nowhere calls it a city. So I have no idea what you're trying to say. If you have a serious point to make, you're really going to have to learn to express yourself more clearly. ] (]) 11:58, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 11:59, 24 September 2024

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"Connection to Sicily" or "Connection to Glastonbury" ?

The island of Sicily has always been identified with Avalon. According to the sources, and especially the history of Europe, Sicily is Avalon. All this by the Normans and also in subsequent periods throughout Europe. On Glastonbury there is nothing of all this, but only an imaginary urban legend based on a false history of the Middle Ages for economic purposes.--151.46.138.40 (talk) 13:37, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Hold on, since "Avalon" is a legend to begin with, we're never going to pinpoint a real location for it. All we can say is "people have identified it with this place" and "people have identified it with that place". The proponents of Sicily need to assemble their sources and then expand the "Connection to Sicily" section, to sit alongside the "Connection to Glastonbury" section, which should certainly remain even if edited down somewhat for the sake of balance with the rest of the article: Noyster (talk), 14:25, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
OK, Avalon is a legend but in the Middle Ages Sicily has historically identified with Avalon from all over Europe. The "Connection to Glastonbury" section is misleading..the tradition of Glastonbury, the Holy Grail and its strange connections are out of place here ... maybe it would be better to insert them into the city page "Glastonbury", so encyclopedic and non-touristy. On this page you can make a mention of this tradition, but without a section with the name "Connection to Glastonbury" ... no connection with Glastonbury.--151.19.235.41 (talk) 15:42, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
You write "...in the Middle Ages Sicily has historically identified with Avalon from all over Europe." Care to provide a source for that? Just because a Sicilian Fata Morgana (mirage) was popularly associated with Morgan le Fay by the (Arthurian-lit-loving) Normans who conquered Sicily doesn't mean that Avalon was identified with Sicily "all over Europe". The man who gave us Avalon, Geoffrey of Monmouth, tacitly identified it with the Canary Islands.Cagwinn (talk) 16:16, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
We may have the beginning of something constructive here, so the above entry should not simply be deleted. We can proceed if the above poster or others can (a) state in what publications these works are available, (b) summarise what they say that is relevant to the identification of Avalon with Sicily: Noyster (talk), 19:59, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
It's not constructive at all - it's merely a list of authors and Arthurian tales that this person has clearly not read, since they don't support the claim that "in the Middle Ages Sicily has historically (been) identified with Avalon from all over Europe".Cagwinn (talk) 20:47, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Comments from block-evading User:Sweet Xeper removed, talk page semi-protected. 21:29, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Proposing some significant pruning to the "Avalon in culture" section

This section of lists of tangential topics is pretty much the definition of what both MOS:TRIVIA and WP:WWIN#INDISCRIMINATE advise us to avoid. Some of these details involving derived modern works, thematically linked topics and perhaps even the toponyms are worth saving, and for the most part worked into prose, but much of it is just not of significant encyclopedic value to the understanding of this topic. For this kind of cross-categorization, I recommend the project TV Tropes (though be warned that you may get entranced by its siren song and never wish to return to our already undermanned project), but I just don't think the understanding of Avalon as a topic of general encyclopedic interest is served by mentioning that Magneto named an asteroid base after it. And I know that it might seem like I'm picking a rather easy target there, but the truth is most entries in this section share nothing more than some nomenclature with the general topic of this article. Snow talk 12:35, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

AVALON is Ynys Enlli (Bardsey Island) The island is a myth but Geoffrey based his story on this island for the reasoning below.

(As an ex police detective) Taking contemporary witnesses, state of mind, chronological logistics, associations, medieval reasoning, book and document study of the time and 20 years of research I can say without a shadow of a doubt in my mind that Ynys Enlli (Bardsey) is the location of the mystical and legendary island of AVALON. (Known the world over) It is a medieval mind jigsaw which can be constructed by using Geoffrey of Monmouth, St Dyfrig, 200000 Saints, Afal (Welsh - apple) Mabinogion, Pilgrimage, Bishop Urban, Llandaff, Welsh/British language and many more evidential enquiry lines. Let me add it is a myth, it was made up, medieval propaganda and for medieval minds, Bardsey could be the only island the Welsh originator of the legend in the 12th century had in mind when he introduced it into the Arthurian stories.(And placed it 500 years earlier) His ingratiation into the 12th century church was complete when his books (highly fabricated) spread the Arthurian legends like wildfire across Europe. Today is the day the bones of the man who crowned Arthur at Caerleon were brought back to Llandaff. 1120AD. (Allegedly) Glastonbury and it's alleged link to Avalon came much later after the original story was constructed.

Misplaced Pages is not your personal blog - please take your OR musings elsewhere. Cagwinn (talk) 23:30, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

The article's chronic vandal and edit warrior is back

The Italian edit warrior with ever changing IP address is back at it again, vandalizing this article. We have to get either permanent protection on the article or find a way to ban this editor (will be difficult due to him using different IP addresses all the time). Cagwinn (talk) 22:44, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

FYI Cagwinn the granting of permanent protection is rare. Asking for a longer period of protection - it was two weeks last time so four is within reason - is probably best. You are right that getting blocks or bans will be difficult since they rotate IPs. They haven't edited since I reverted this morning (my time) so I was going to wait to see if they return. Feel free to file an WP:RFPP at anytime. In your report you can make the admins aware of this thread though you don't have to. I have the page on my watchlist now so I will help when I can. Thanks for your vigilance in protecting this article. MarnetteD|Talk 22:54, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
Protected three months. --NeilN 14:50, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
this is the POV ,location of Avalon no Glastonbury guide. The content of the page "Avalon" are on other pages "Glastonbury abbey"., "glastenbury festival" not appropriate, and original research and vandalism. everything is there for all to see.--82.61.41.4 (talk) 15:36, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Avalon/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

It could use some expantion. I'd like to see some footnotes, too, and maybe a "Further reading" section.  — AnnaKucsma   (Talk to me!) 14:53, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 14:53, 4 May 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 08:41, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Unorganised, unreferenced & badly written cultural references

Avalon in culture

It has been suggested that this section be split out into another page. (Discuss)

Avalon is referenced or serves as setting for many modern works of fiction or fantasy, including non-Arthurian French literature, folklore, and epic poems as well as in later works without other connections to King Arthur. Several examples are listed below.

Avalon in non-Arthurian French literature, folklore, and epic poems

Examples include:

  • Li coronemenz Looïs (an anonymous twelfth-century Old French chanson de geste, in which appears the phrase por tot l'or d'Avalon "for all the gold of Avalon")
  • The legends of Holger Danske, who was taken there by the sorceress Morgan le Fay of Arthurian legend
  • The legends of Melusine. It also recurs in a number of later works without other connections to King Arthur

Avalon in modern fiction

Avalon is a major setting for many modern works of fiction or fantasy. Several examples are listed below.

In comics
  • Marvel Comics has two different Avalons.
    • In the X-Men comic-book franchise, the supervillain Magneto creates a floating asteroid named Avalon to be a sanctuary for mutants.
    • Avalon is also a location that is based on the Arthurian Avalon and is part of the Otherworld.
  • Avalon also appears in the The New 52 DC Comics book series, Demon Knights.
In literature
  • Marion Zimmer Bradley's The Mists of Avalon, ISBN 0345350499
  • The Chronicles of Amber (1970-1991) by Roger Zelazny is a fantasy book series that references Avalon as shadow-kingdom formerly ruled by Corwin, the protagonist of the first five novels.
  • In Chapter 19 of James Rollins' sixth Sigma Force novel, The Doomsday Key (2009), Father Rye and historian Wallace Boyd tell the group seeking the Doomsday Key that Bardsey Island was home to Fomorian royalty and that Merlin was a famous Druid priest, buried on sacred Bardsey Island with other prominent Druids. In the book's "Fact or Fiction" epilogue, Rollins writes: "Bardsey Island truly is Avalon. All the stories and mythologies of the island are accurate, including Merlin's tomb, Lord Newborough's Crypt, and the twenty thousand buried saints. Also, the Bardsey apple continues to grow, and cuttings can be purchased of this ancient tree. As to those nasty currents around the island, those are also real."
  • In Poul Anderson's Technic History, Avalon is the name of a planet with a colony composed jointly of Humans and the eagle-like Ythrian aliens.
  • In J. R. R. Tolkien's The Silmarillion and Sauron Defeated, Avallon is identified with Tol Eressëa, the enchanted island nearest to the Blessed Land of Aman, inhabited by Elves. Avallónë is also the main elven city on Eressëa. When Númenor (Atlantis) sank into the ocean, the flat Middle-earth became spherical and Eressëa and Aman were removed into the world of the "Unseen", to prevent mortals from reaching them. Elves and specially blessed mortals can still sail there.
In television
In video games

In music

Led Zeppelin sings "I'm waiting for the angels of Avalon, waiting for the eastern glow." in the song "The Battle of Evermore", along with references to the Latin meaning of Avalon (apple): "The apples of the valley hold the seeds of happiness".

"Avalon" is a song from the album "Avalon", the eighth and final studio album released in May 1982, by Roxy Music.

"Isle of Avalon" is a song from the 2010 album "The Final Frontier" by the English heavy metal band Iron Maiden.

The line "Sweet Avalon, the heat is on" is found in the track "A Call to Arms" from Mike & The Mechanics' first album.

Avalon Sunset is the nineteenth studio album by Northern Irish singer-songwriter Van Morrison, released in 1989. Morrison also wrote the song "Avalon of the Heart", which was included on his next album Enlightenment in 1990.

"Avalon" is a song from the album Fables & Dreams by Swiss symphonic metal band Lunatica.

"Avalon" is a song on acoustic oriented band Fiction Family's 2013 album Fiction Family Reunion.

"Back to Avalon" is a song on the album Desire Walks On by rock group Heart (band).

"Avalon" is the title of a song on the album Axis Mundi (2015) by Brown Bird.

"Avalon" is mentioned in the song "Southern Cross" by Crosby, Stills, and Nash.

"Avalon" is a song on the album Empire of the Undead by power metal group Gamma Ray.

"Avalon" is a song on the soundtrack for the Jojo's Bizarre Adventure 2012 anime.

"Sail Away to Avalon" is a song on the first Ayreon album, The Final Experiment.

"Avalon" is the title of an album released in 2014 by Japanese rock band Matenrou Opera.

Rivers of Avalon is a song by the Red Hot Chili Peppers, released as a b-side to The Zephyr Song

The Avalon Guitar Company crafts stringed instruments in Ireland.

Flogging Molly sings "Up to heaven and past Avalon" in 'Devil's Dance Floor' off of their album "Swagger"

Avalon is a song on the 1999 album Ágætis byrjun by Sigur Rós.

Avalon (disambiguation)

for convenience I'm copying this here temporarily - some of the material above is already on the dab page

== Books

Avalon (novel), a 1965 novel by Anya Seton Avalon Series, a series of novels by Marion Zimmer Bradley Avalon: Web of Magic, a series of children's fantasy novels by the American author Rachel Roberts

Films Avalon (1990 film), directed by Barry Levinson Avalon (2001 film), a Japanese/Polish film directed by Mamoru Oshii

Comics Avalon (webcomic), written by Josh Phillips Avalon (DC Comics), a fictional planet Avalon (Marvel Comics), a fictional island

Games Avalon The 3D Adventure Movie, a 1984 computer game released on the ZX Spectrum by Hewson in the 1980s Avalon (MUD), a text-based online game series Avalon, a King Arthur-themed variant to the game The Resistance Avalon, the first stage in Gaiapolis Avalon Centrifuge, a character in the video game LittleBigPlanet 2 Avalon, a world in the online game of Wizard101

MusicBands and performers Avalon (Finnish band), a Finnish metal opera project Avalon (American group), a contemporary Christian music group Avalon (Scottish band), a Celtic-rock group formerly known as The Medium Wave Band Avalon (Swedish group), a musical duo made up of the Swedish-Congolese brothers Djo and Mohombi Moupondo Frankie Avalon (born 1940), American actor, singer, and former teen idol Mickey Avalon (born 1975), rapper

Albums Avalon (Roxy Music album), a 1982 album by British group Roxy Music Avalon (Avalon album), a 1996 self-titled album by Avalon Avalon (Anthony Green album), Anthony Green's 2008 solo debut album Avalon (Sully Erna album), a 2010 album by Godsmack singer Sully Erna Avalon (soundtrack), the original soundtrack of the 1990 film Avalon Avalon Los Angeles CA 24/06/06, a 2006 live 2-disc recording by Sasha (DJ)

Songs "Avalon" (Al Jolson song), 1920 "Avalon" (Roxy Music song), 1982 "Avalon", a 1999 song by Sigur Rós from the album Ágætis byrjun "Avalon", a 1999 song by Blackmore's Night from the album Under a Violet Moon "Avalon" a 2005 song by Juliet Richardson "Avalon" (Lovebugs song), 2006 "Avalon", a 2010 song by Bad Religion from the album "The Dissent of Man" "Avalon" (Professor Green song), 2011 "Isle of Avalon", a 2010 song from Iron Maiden's album The Final Frontier "Avalon", a 2014 song from Slash featuring Myles Kennedy and the Conspirators' album World on Fire

Businesses Avalon Books, a New York-based book publishing imprint (1950-2012), purchased by Amazon.com Avalon Publishing Group (1994–2007), a New York publisher, absorbed by Perseus Books Group Avalon Guitars, a Northern Ireland guitar manufacturer Avalon hotel (Gothenburg), Sweden Avalon Hotel (Rochester, Minnesota), USA Chateau Avalon, Kansas City, Kansas, USA, a luxury hotel and bed & breakfast Avalon Interactive, a now-defunct video game distribution company Avalon Mall, St. Johns, Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada Avalon Rare Metals, a mineral development company focused on rare metal deposits in Canada Avalon Studios, a film and television studio, located in Avalon, New Zealand Avalon Waterways, an American ship and river cruise line owned by Globus Radio Avalon, originally a pirate radio station near Glastonbury, England in 1983, later a legally recognised station

Organizations The Avalon Foundation, founded by Ailsa Mellon-Bruce in 1940 and later merged into the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation Avalon Historico-Geographical Society, based in Karaganda, Kazakhstan

PlacesAustralia Avalon, New South Wales Avalon, Victoria Avalon Airport, Victoria

Canada Avalon Peninsula, Newfoundland Avalon (electoral district), Newfoundland Province of Avalon, Newfoundland Avalon, Ottawa, a neighborhood in a suburb of the city of Ottawa, Ontario Avalon, Saskatoon, a neighbourhood in the city of Saskatoon, Saskatchewan

United States Avalon (Birmingham, Alabama), listed on the National Register of Historic Places Avalon, California, the only city on Santa Catalina Island Avalon, Georgia, a town Avalon (Alpharetta, Georgia), a planned mixed-use development Avalon (New Windsor, Maryland), a historic home listed on the NRHP Avalon, Mississippi, an unincorporated community Avalon, Missouri, an unincorporated community Avalon, New Jersey, a barrier island resort community Avalon, Pennsylvania, a borough Avalon, Texas, an unincorporated community Avalon, Virginia, an unincorporated community Avalon, Wisconsin, an unincorporated community Avalon State Park, North Hutchinson Island, Florida Mount Avalon, New Hampshire Avalon Dam, on the Pecos River near Carlsbad, New Mexico

Elsewhere Avalon, France, a village outside of Pontcharra, Isère Avalon, New Zealand, a suburb of Lower Hutt Avalon graveyard, in Soweto, South Africa

Schools Avalon School (California) Avalon School, in St. Paul, Minnesota The Avalon School, a private school in Mongomery County, Maryland

Technology Avalon Project, a digital library of documents held by the Yale Law School Avalon, the codename for Windows Presentation Foundation, a user interface API designed by Microsoft Apache Avalon, a computer software framework Avalon switch fabric, the peripheral interface used in Altera's Nios II embedded processor

Television "Avalon" (Stargate SG-1), the first two episodes of the ninth season of Stargate SG-1 Avalon, a character from the popular TV show Winx Club

Transportation Avalon Boulevard, a north-south thoroughfare in Los Angeles County Avalon (Los Angeles Metro station), on the Metro Green Line Avalon (RTA Rapid Transit station), a station stop on the RTA Blue Line in Cleveland, Ohio Toyota Avalon, a sedan car USS Avalon, several US Navy ships SS Avalon, several ships Belle of Louisville, a steamboat formerly named Avalon Avalon Airport in Victoria, Australia

Venues and movie theaters The Avalon, San Francisco, California Avalon Theater (disambiguation)

Other uses Avalon Roberts (born 1945), Canadian psychiatrist and political activist

See also Avalonia or Avalon terrane, an ancient microcontinent Avallon, Burgundy, France, a commune

Doug Weller talk 14:36, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

References

  1. Chambers, Edmund Kerchever. Arthur of Britain, Speculum Historiale, 1964, p. 219.
  2. Rollins, James (2009). The Doomsday Key. pp. Chapter 19 and Fact or Fiction.
  3. "Avalon Lyrics". Metrolyrics. Retrieved 6 December 2014.

Vanity press

reintroduced a self-published source from the best known vanity press in the world. At no point has anyone produced evidence that this book, unusually among the self-published books from that company, is a valid reference. It's also redundant per multiple other references. I removed it again. Guy (Help!) 19:58, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Throop qualifies as a reliable source (see the second bullet below), despite this book being self-published, per WP guidelines, which I have already brought to your attention:
Self-published sources are largely not acceptable on Misplaced Pages, though there are exceptions. And even though a self-published source might be acceptable, a non-self-published source is usually preferred, if available. Examples of acceptable sourcing of self-published works:
# A self-published source may be used for certain claims by the author about himself, herself, or itself. (See #For claims by self-published authors about themselves)
# Self-published sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications. Take care when using such sources: if the information in question is really worth reporting, someone else will probably have done so.
# A self-published work may be used as a source when the statement concerns the source itself. For example, for the statement "The organization purchased full-page advertisements in major newspapers advocating gun control," the advertisement(s) in question could be cited as sources, even though advertisements are self-published.
Throop is an acknowledged expert in the field who has been published by reliable third party publishing house (Simon & Schuster). Cagwinn (talk) 20:42, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. Please do note that any exceptional claim would require exceptional sources
  2. Further examples of self published sources include press releases, material contained within company websites, advertising campaigns, material published in media by the owner(s)/publisher(s) of the media group, self-released music albums and electoral manifestos:
So, you quote-mined the guideline and picked out the bits that support you while studiously ignoring the vast majority that does not. You see where it says "even though a self-published source might be acceptable, a non-self-published source is usually preferred, if available"? We have non-self-published sources. The vanity press book is a source only for the fact that its author said this, and that would require reliable independent third party sources to establish significance. Right now, inclusion rests solely on your assertion that this author's view is significant in context and your view that in the absence of any third party source, it can be taken from the WP:PRIMARY WP:SPS. Primary self-published sources for opinions are legitimate only when discussing those opinions in articles about the person and where the opinions are uncontroversial. This is not an article about the person, and that means there have to be reliable independent secondary sources establishing the significance of this person's view on this specific matter. And that is absolutely standard Misplaced Pages practice. Now go and take it out again until you find those sources. Guy (Help!) 21:14, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
You don't even know what your arguing about do you? I have been studying this topic for OVER THIRTY YEARS!!! Throop's translation is accurate (though, as you can see, I replaced it - PER YOU REQUEST!!!), as was the assertion about the ancient and medieval identification of the Fortunate Isles with the Carnary islands (as the added citations prove - and I can find many more for you!!!), and Throop meets WP guidelines on self-published authors, as I have noted above. Just concede the point and move on, before we have to escalate this into WP bureaucratic hell. Cagwinn (talk) 21:28, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
Yes, I do. I am arguing about Misplaced Pages policy. You, however, appear not to have understood the point here. You want to include Throop's views sourced to a self-published book. In order to include her views you need to show that Throop's opinions on this are cited in reliable independent sources, and you need to source her views to those reliable independent sources not to a primary, self-published source. That would not be necessary if this was an article about Throop, but it isn't. That's how Misplaced Pages works. It'as how Misplaced Pages has always worked. SHOUTING AT THE ADMINS is not how Misplaced Pages works, because we ignore it. Read WP:PRIMARY and WP:SPS, not, as you did last time, looking for excuses to get what you want, but instead with an eye to understanding them holistically. Reliable independent secondary sources is one of the first things the community agreed on when Misplaced Pages was founded, and a source has to check all three boxes: reliable, secondary and independent. Self-published sources usually fail the first and always the third, this case also fails the second. You make a fair case for reliable but that's a stool with one leg. Guy (Help!) 09:37, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
By the way - Priscilla Throop is cited as a source IN MANY WIKIPEDIA ARTICLES, as this Google search will demonstrate. Cagwinn (talk) 21:33, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
See above: irrelevant. WP:RS. Reliable. Independent. Secondary. None of these is optional. Guy (Help!) 09:41, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
This is beyond ridiculous. You are only interested in "winning", not in maintaining the integrity of the article. Throop is a reliable source who is cited in many WP articles. She meets WP guidelines regarding self-published authors (she is not exclusively self-published and was published by a very reliable publishing house). Her translation is accurate, as is her comment about the Canary islands. Her citation will ultimately remain. Cagwinn (talk) 17:56, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
You do not appear to be reading what I write, or the guidelines you reference. Read again: WP:RS: reliable, independent, secondary. All three must be there. You're looking to include the opinion of someone you claim to be an authority on this subject (which may be accurate, but being quoted on Misplaced Pages can also be an indication of assiduous self-promotion, in case you're not aware). My point, and the point of the relevant guidelines, is that if this opinion is significant and important, it will be cited in reliable independent secondary sources. There should be no need to cite a primary self-published source for an opinion that is widely held up as significant. And the onus is firmly on you to achieve consensus for inclusion of disputed material. Guy (Help!) 19:33, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

"It's directly related, has been commented on by many Arthurian scholars"

How exactly? And a lot of absolute crap "has been in the article for years". Look at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Avalon&oldid=723542980 It was me who cleaned up this mess. Please revert yourself or provide the actual "commentaery by Arthurian scholars" about how Avalon might be the Canaries or whatever (I don't know). SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 20:21, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

I am not reverting it; it has valid source citations and, as I mentioned, has been a part of the article for years now. It is important that it remains here, because nutjobs who want to make Avalon a town in Britain or France conveniently ignore the fact that Geoffrey clearly states Avalon is an island in the Western Ocean and that Geoffrey, for his description of the isle, simply re-phrased Isidore's entry on the Fortunate Isles (which were commonly identified with the Canary Islands in antiquity, all the way through the middle ages - go ahead and check some medieval maps!). Geoffrey was not only influenced by Isidore, but also by medieval hagiography (for example, the Navigatio Sancti Brendani) in which the Fortunate Isle(s) (with varying names) frequently appear. Cagwinn (talk) 20:36, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
I have just now added numerous new sources to the paragraph. Cagwinn (talk) 21:11, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Two sections moved here from other pages

Hello, I moved two sections from other pages to this Talk section because they describe modern media depictions of the Arthurian Avalon. I added them into the modern media section above. They are Avalon in Disney's Gargoyles (moved from the Avalon disambiguation page), and the mention of Tol Eressea by J.R.R. Tolkien, moved from the Fortunate Isles page since Tolkien didn't actually use the Fortunate Isles, he only used Avalon and Atlantis. I do think the modern media section should be restored to the main page. I don't see why it was removed. Including a link to the page about the book, movie, or TV series in question seems like a legitimate reference to me. 2601:441:4480:53B0:649E:4D07:C305:5E01 (talk) 14:54, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

Unsourced lines from the lead

First referred to as "Avallus" by Pliny the Elder in his Natural History (IV, 95) in the 1st century CE, it was described as a mysterious island where amber could be found. Later described by the poet Taliesin in the 6th century CE (some people associate Taliesin with the mythical bard Myrddin) as the “Island of Apples” where life is eternal and fruits are always ripe. 5.173.48.166 (talk) 11:58, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Avalon is not a legendary ciry

Avalon isn't a legendary city it's on an island!! So I feel like you should change that and it's really helpful so I feel like you should do that

Sincerely,Ezra 47.155.241.5 (talk) 18:20, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

The article describes Avalon as "a mythical island", and nowhere calls it a city. So I have no idea what you're trying to say. If you have a serious point to make, you're really going to have to learn to express yourself more clearly. GrindtXX (talk) 11:58, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
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