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Revision as of 01:41, 23 November 2014 editMedeis (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users49,187 edits →disruptive thread← Previous edit Latest revision as of 15:56, 22 November 2024 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,302,385 editsm Archiving 2 discussion(s) to Misplaced Pages talk:Reference desk/Archive 133) (bot 
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== Great activity on RD/S == == Unreadable in dark mode ==


Unfortunately I have no solutions to offer, but ] is nearly unreadable in the new dark mode - the very light grey text in the white boxes just vanishes. Thought I'd at least note it here in case anyone knows of a fix. ] (]) 15:00, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
Just wanted to say that the RD/S is humming along pretty nicely. Great content, thanks to many contributors. -- ] (]) 15:29, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
⚫ :It all looks normal to me. Where is this "dark mode" option you're talking about? ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 00:10, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
::See ] @] ] (]) 03:47, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
⚫ :::It looks like that's where complaints about this thing should be taken. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 03:58, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
::::I have no complaints about the tool; seems to be working as intended, but this page isn't set up to render usefully using it. But hey ho. ] (]) 12:13, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::I think you should take this question to the Village Pump. Either that, or don't user Dark Mode. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 03:03, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::: Good advice. I tried it once. I didn't like it. <small> (Sex, that is. I also didn't like being reasonable, or the new Misplaced Pages dark mode.)</small> -- ] </sup></span>]] 22:08, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
:Thank you ] and ]! Looks great now. ] (]) 13:29, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
::Great! <span style="background:white; color: black;">🐸</span>&nbsp;] (]) 08:26, 9 August 2024 (UTC)


== Alex Sazonov == == Humanities and header hatnote ==


Last week, ] decided to to the humanities desk, and then ] decided to a few days later. Here's the content:
] has been editing Misplaced Pages for six or seven months. His editorial history seems to consist entirely of the Reference Desks and of responding at his talk page to comments about his posts to the Reference Desks. His English is poor, and no one knows what his native language is. (Native speakers of Russian do not understand his posts any more than native speakers of English.) Two recent posts make no scientific sense, because they use the word ']', which is a technical term of chemistry applicable only to ] as if it applied to compounds and manufactured materials. He has been repeatedly advised either to find a web site in his own language or to use automated translation. I have posted to his talk page to that effect again today. I see that his talk page includes previous such advice. If he continues to edit the Reference Desk in ways that do not make sense, we should go to ] and ask that he be either ] from the Reference Desk or blocked from editing. (Since he does nothing but post his stuff here, there is little difference between a topic-ban and a block.) I think that we have been patient long enough. ] (]) 17:00, 14 November 2014 (UTC)


{{redirect|WP:RD/H|the template header used in all areas of the ]|WP:Reference desk/Header}}
:Well the first bit is no problem: anyone is free to use the refdesks, there is no requirement to do other things on WP too (though some editors do seem think so). I personally am happy to ignore his posts, and occasionally supply some links if I can get a general sense of what he's asking about. If he is editing in bad faith/trolling, IMO he is a very poor one, because he doesn't disrupt much, and doesn't really argue with us or do other things that make trolls bothersome. Finally, it doesn't matter to me what the native language is, e.g. if his native tongue were Greek but he chose a Russian-sounding username, why should we care? In my view, ESL status should not make users into second class citizens, and this particular user is not harmfully disruptive in my estimation. ] (]) 17:58, 14 November 2014 (UTC)


Neither adding nor removing was discussed, and lack of discussion was . So, let's start a discussion...is this header a good idea? I'm leaning toward "no", thanks to the reasons given for removal, but I can understand the reasoning for adding. ] (]) 22:55, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
::He sounds like many regular editors at the ref desk, who are single-minded and don't really understand that they're not actually improving Misplaced Pages with their "contributions" here. Why just pick on one editor? ] (]) 19:53, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
:Agree with the removal, there is no reason to have that at the top of the page. --] 14:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:::I don't know what you do elsewhere on WP but when you seem only show up on the ref desk to disparage said desk on its talk page, it's hard to AGF with you. Do you really think this kind of feedback is improving the discussion? You don't have to like what we do here but if you won't help fix the problems you perceive then please be polite enough to just ignore those of us who enjoy using the desks to help people. ] (]) 21:43, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
:No; the template is way further down the ladder. While pageviews are not infalliable, – on a logarithmic scale, you'll note – is pretty damning. If someone is looking for ] they probably know how to find it. ] (]) 19:24, 16 August 2024 (UTC)


== Bots ==
::Agree with SemanticMantis. It was getting to be excessive and disruptive for a while but the number of contributions has gone down to a level where they don't cause too much trouble. Try just ignoring the posts if they annoy you. ] (]) 20:13, 14 November 2014 (UTC)


Do the bots really edit pages or something else because I saw from the citation bot literally remove and replace the same information with the same words ] (]) 11:45, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:::I have hatted his two most recent posts. I agree that he isn't a troll, just a clueless editor who doesn't know English and uses scientific terminology incorrectly. Evidently he thinks that ']' means something other than its technical meaning in chemistry. ] (]) 20:48, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
:Where did you see that? ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 07:19, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
:::One previous editor about a month ago at the ] was indeffed for posting flawed proofs. ] (]) 20:48, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
:::I'm willing to ignore him for a while, but he is a nuisance. ] (]) 20:48, 14 November 2014 (UTC)


== Fake Desi media content querant ==
:For my part, I decided weeks ago to ignore him. I'm not convinced that he or anyone else is getting any benefit from the conversations that he has been starting. That said, I don't have a strong opinion on doing anything other than ignoring him. ] (]) 20:59, 14 November 2014 (UTC)


Looks like the Californian troll who pretends to be a poorly comprehending fan of Indian subcontinent media, with poor English, has now got themself an account. (If I was sufficiently motivated, I'd link the thread several months back where they crowed in perfect English about successfully fooling us.)
:This is difficult. We're required to ] - and he doesn't seem to have done anything to cause us to believe he's not acting in good faith. His questions are invariably meaningless babble - and because the words seem correctly spelled - but wildly meaningless in context - it certainly seems like he's using automatic translation from some non-English language. In the last case, who knows what word in his language is being translated into "valence"? His questions don't seem to violate any guideline - so we kinda need to gently point out that asking questions here is a complete waste of his time, and ours...and failing that, I'd suggest that nobody even attempt to answer them unless their meaning is completely clear. But when he starts to ANSWER questions - I have concerns. His answers don't survive translation any better than his questions do - they are just complete nonsense - and I'm quite sure they are very confusing to our OP's. I'm actually of the opinion that we need to block his answers from the list somehow. Technically he's engaging in "disruptive editing" - but because of ], I don't think we should take punitive sanctions here. ] (]) 21:34, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
Should something be done about this? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ] (]) 07:51, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

:Not sure I follow. The last couple of times they've posted on Ents from an IP address, it's geolocated to India. --] 09:05, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
::I very much doubt that he is using automatic translation - his persistent use of 'been' inappropriately (until he was told to stop doing it) suggests that he either thinks he is writing coherent English, or is trolling. Personally, I have to suggest that the latter seems more plausible. If his English is as poor as appears on the surface, one would have to assume that he would find understanding replies difficult, but he rarely seems to suggest this - instead, he usually responds (where it makes sense at all) by disagreeing, and adding his own confusing opinions. ] (]) 21:43, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
::The issue has been sorted, the account has been indefinitely blocked. --] 13:24, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:::I was wondering for a while whether they weren't some sort of Eliza program with the bad language being there deliberately to disguise it. I've come to the conclusion now there is actually somebody there strange though their thought processes must be. ] (]) 13:32, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

*Many of our askers are "clueless", presumably we are here to try to help them get a clue. Based on this discussion, I do not see widespread support for starting ANI business on this user. However, anyone is of course free to start that process of their own volition. ] (]) 19:09, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
:::::A thread below took issue with hatting an opinion question. Is there agreement that when this poster's responses to our replies to his questions become incomprehensible, hatting them is an appropriate action? ] (]) 21:36, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
::::::I wouldn't agree with that. If you are answering a question, it is their thread, essentially, you're engaging them. If the user answers with nonsense to another question, sure, hat them, but if you expect nonsense, don't engage them, ignore the question. More than once, I'm fairly certain I was able to beg down what they were trying to say, but I'm not sure, so I refrain; but, it does seem they are saying something, or believe they are. If they were being horribly disruptive and flooding the desk with ten questions a day, then there would be reason to do something, but one harmless person who doesn't seem to have mastered language isn't hurting anything and there isn't much of a reason to do anything - I'm not sure what is actually gained by policing this person as long as they are contained to their own questions.] (]) 08:37, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

== Formal dinner discussion hatting... ==

...unhatted. The majority of ] was useful, both in direct advice and in pointing out how the question might be clarified for even better replies. I don't condone hatting of borderline discussions based on overly strict reading of rules. --] (]) 10:39, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
⚫ :It is most certainly a referenceable question. The advice of Miss Manners or Emily Post might labeled "opinions", but they are ''informed'' opinions. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 10:44, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
:Agree with that. If somebody asks what people would be like if they had wings and could fly I would have no objections to somebody pointing to Olaf Stapledon's ]. ] (]) 13:41, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

== Unsigned Posts ==

Is ] supposed to be signing unsigned posts at the Reference Desks? There is a recent thread at the Science Desk that has two unsigned posts by an IP that were not signed by the ]. Should the Reference Desks enable the bot, or is the bot down again (which happens periodically)? ] (]) 21:38, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
::It appears that the bot is down. However, can someone check whether the reference desks have enabled the bot? I have asked the bot maintainer whether there is an alternate maintainer, but I know that question won't be answered until the bot maintainer gets back. ] (]) 21:43, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

:::Yes, all desks belong to the category ]. SineBot's last action on the Science desk was Nov 11 . ---] ] 22:18, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
::::The bot is working again. ] (]) 03:30, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

== Professor of physics ==

I got an EC when trying to hat this question as it had already been hatted. I did find a followup, outside the hat, by the IP which I deleted and left (nearly except for spacing issues) the same rationale I had planned to leave with the hat . As I implied in my edit summary, regardlessof whether there may be professors of physics who answer questions here on occasion, it's not acceptable (as I think we've discussed before) to demand that only certain editors answer your question. (It may be okay to ask people to take particular care to avoid answers which are offtopic, unreferenced or otherwise inappropriate.) Normally we may simply ignore such requirements (and perhaps ignore the question), but in this case, since the editor has already asked the question and received answers and I see now even deleted answers and is simply giving lots of follow ups complaining that the wrong person answered (rather than anything fundamentally wrong with the answers), I feel it's acceptable to hat the followup any further followups or even delete them if they continue. (My deletion was reverted by the IP and Robert than moved the hat to cover the latest followup. If that convinces the IP to stop, I'm fine with that. If the IP continues to give followups, deletion and blocking may be in order.) <s>I would add that if this editor is ] as it appears some people suspect in the original question ], then they are evading a topic ban as I mentioned at ] (and is perhaps why they are now editing from an IP) and have given even more reason to be blocked.</s> ] (]) 03:49, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
:<s>Actually seems they're evading a block and not just a topic ban. User:Wavyinfinity was blocked due to continual topic ban violations. ] (]) 04:02, 19 November 2014 (UTC)</s>
::See the IP user's edit history, that he dates to today, and see this where he restores the relativity / cosmology nonsense at ] by the obviously identical ]. Given he has given us both a named account and a Static IP address any admin's job should be simple. ] (]) 04:34, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

:The suggestion that the new IP is Wavyinfinity doesn't really ] for me. {{User|Wavyinfinity}} was comfortable signing his name and using indentations in threading. {{IP|178.194.81.188}} seems to have trouble with both of those. Also, Wavyinfinity's comments regarding relativity seem very different than the IPs. I don't think they are the same person. For the record, I am the one who blocked Wavyinfinity. ] (]) 05:49, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

::Looking at ]'s user page, I'd have to suggest that a Wavyinfinity sock seems plausible - compare with the now deleted polemic on Wavyinfinity's user page. . ] (]) 06:40, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

:::I read both. Aside from both being attacks on establish physics, I don't see a lot of similarity. N738139's short text mentions many terms, such as "Poincaré", "Sagnac", "Wormholes", "standard model", "aberration", "time dilation", and "Newton", which don't occur in Wavyinfinity's long text. ] (]) 06:54, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

:::Of course, if it is important, one could ask for a sockpuppet investigation. Though there are some similar issues here, I'm inclined to believe these are different people. ] (]) 06:57, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

::::Based on Dragons Flight comments who I think has a fair amount more experience with Wavyinfinity than me and a more careful look I withdraw my claim that the IP is Wavyinfinity. I saw an editor who appeared to me to be showing up to try and convince us that general relativity was wrong with great vigiour which we'd just had from Wavyinfinity and I assumed they were connected as I'd seen someone else also suggest, and made the above comment. When I looked more careful at their edit history and saw them asking the same stuff on talk pages, as well as bothering Dragons flight (who I'd noticed was the one to block them), this further reenforced my view and I started to delete their talk page comments as well. However I see now that Dragons flight had replied to their comment on the RD. Also, while it appears the editor thinks there's something wrong with physics and is not particularly willing to accept that it's probably their understanding, I'm was never that sure if they're particularly going to the extremes of Wavyinfinity of saying general relativity etc is pseudoscience solely from their comments. (They did link to , which does talk about conspiracies in physics but I couldn't be bothered working out what it's about and it doesn't quite seem the same as the stuff Wavyinfinity was talking about.) Finally I'd noticed the connection with N738139 mentioned above which told me there was some stuff in the French wikipedia. but I didn't look in to that aspect until now. While I don't understand French, it looks to me like the Swiss IP probably has a decent command ], ], ]. I'm not seeing any sign of that from Wavyinfinity. I've therefore apologised to the editors involved. As I said there, I don't withdraw much else. The editors contributions appear unwelcome as long as they're going to make silly demands and delete answers. P.S. I would add that, I have doubts a SPI would be much use as it stands. The number of edits from N738139 is small, it definitely doesn't seem there's anything there enough to connect to to Wavyinfinity. The IP and has a lot more, but of course a checkuser won't connect the IP to Wavyinfinity so it would need to be behavioural evidence. The IP and N738139 are obviously connected, but I presume evidence for the IP can't be used to do a checkuser on N738139 (even if CU won't comment on the IP itself). ] (]) 15:51, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
:::::The IP is not Wavyinfinity. Wavyinfinity writes English at the native level, and the IP does not. If two ducks quack differently, they are not the same duck. ] (]) 17:51, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

== disruptive thread ==

The OP has continued the hatted thread about restaurants with two petulantly worded questions. I have deleted the thread and asked the OP to start a new thread on a single question if he likes. ] (]) 23:12, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
⚫ :Is this weirdness the normal behavior of Pablo the Penguin, or has he taken a wrong turn recently? ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 07:23, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

::Thou hath been done. ] (]) 12:21, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

:::Given the repeated opinionating coming from the OP, I have collapsed the thread. ] (]) 22:07, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
::::Interestingly, the user does geolocate to Scotland, see the IP address from this thread with his first registered, but . Anyone guess what the topic was? ] (]) 01:38, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 15:56, 22 November 2024

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Unreadable in dark mode

Unfortunately I have no solutions to offer, but Misplaced Pages:Reference desk is nearly unreadable in the new dark mode - the very light grey text in the white boxes just vanishes. Thought I'd at least note it here in case anyone knows of a fix. 57.140.16.8 (talk) 15:00, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

It all looks normal to me. Where is this "dark mode" option you're talking about? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 00:10, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
See Misplaced Pages:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_214#Dark_mode_for_logged-in_users_on_desktop_coming_this_week! @Baseball Bugs 97.113.14.140 (talk) 03:47, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
It looks like that's where complaints about this thing should be taken. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 03:58, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
I have no complaints about the tool; seems to be working as intended, but this page isn't set up to render usefully using it. But hey ho. 97.113.14.140 (talk) 12:13, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
I think you should take this question to the Village Pump. Either that, or don't user Dark Mode. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 03:03, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
Good advice. I tried it once. I didn't like it. (Sex, that is. I also didn't like being reasonable, or the new Misplaced Pages dark mode.) -- Jack of Oz 22:08, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
Thank you Jdlrobson and Izno! Looks great now. 57.140.16.8 (talk) 13:29, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
Great! 🐸 Jdlrobson (talk) 08:26, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Humanities and header hatnote

Last week, Mod creator decided to add a hatnote to the humanities desk, and then PrimeHunter decided to remove it a few days later. Here's the content:

"WP:RD/H" redirects here. For the template header used in all areas of the reference desks, see WP:Reference desk/Header.

Neither adding nor removing was discussed, and lack of discussion was one reason given for its removal. So, let's start a discussion...is this header a good idea? I'm leaning toward "no", thanks to the reasons given for removal, but I can understand the reasoning for adding. Nyttend (talk) 22:55, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Agree with the removal, there is no reason to have that at the top of the page. --Viennese Waltz 14:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
No; the template is way further down the ladder. While pageviews are not infalliable, the comparison – on a logarithmic scale, you'll note – is pretty damning. If someone is looking for WP:Reference desk/header they probably know how to find it. Cremastra (talk) 19:24, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Bots

Do the bots really edit pages or something else because I saw from the citation bot literally remove and replace the same information with the same words Avyanna.Owam (talk) 11:45, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Where did you see that? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 07:19, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Fake Desi media content querant

Looks like the Californian troll who pretends to be a poorly comprehending fan of Indian subcontinent media, with poor English, has now got themself an account. (If I was sufficiently motivated, I'd link the thread several months back where they crowed in perfect English about successfully fooling us.) Should something be done about this? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.1.211.243 (talk) 07:51, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Not sure I follow. The last couple of times they've posted on Ents from an IP address, it's geolocated to India. --Viennese Waltz 09:05, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
The issue has been sorted, the account has been indefinitely blocked. --Viennese Waltz 13:24, 22 November 2024 (UTC)