Misplaced Pages

:Articles for deletion/Audrey Bitoni (2nd nomination): Difference between revisions - Misplaced Pages

Article snapshot taken from[REDACTED] with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
< Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion Browse history interactively← Previous editContent deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 02:58, 1 December 2014 edit108.41.160.197 (talk)No edit summary← Previous edit Latest revision as of 15:27, 25 March 2023 edit undoLegobot (talk | contribs)Bots1,672,244 editsm Bot: Fixing lint errors, replacing obsolete HTML tags: <font> (3x)Tag: Fixed lint errors 
(28 intermediate revisions by 15 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
<div class="boilerplate afd vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color: #F3F9FF; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's ] or in a ]). No further edits should be made to this page.''
<!--Template:Afd top

Note: If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to re-nominate an article for deletion, you must manually edit the AfD nomination links to create a new discussion page using the name format of ]. When you create the new discussion page, please provide a link to this old discussion in your nomination. -->

The result was '''delete'''. especially due to strength of arguments from nominator and Hullaballoo Wolfowitz '''] ]]''' 00:04, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
===]=== ===]===
{{REMOVE THIS TEMPLATE WHEN CLOSING THIS AfD|B}}
<div class="infobox" style="width:50%">AfDs for this article:<ul class="listify">{{Special:Prefixindex/Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Audrey Bitoni}}</ul></div> <div class="infobox" style="width:50%">AfDs for this article:<ul class="listify">{{Special:Prefixindex/Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Audrey Bitoni}}</ul></div>
:{{la|Audrey Bitoni}} – (<includeonly>]</includeonly><noinclude>]</noinclude>{{int:dot-separator}} <span class="plainlinks"></span>) :{{la|Audrey Bitoni}} – (<includeonly>]</includeonly><noinclude>]</noinclude>{{int:dot-separator}} <span class="plainlinks"></span>)
Line 7: Line 13:
*'''Keep''' - I disagree with the notion that Audrey Bitoni is a "non-notable" pornstar. She's been around since 2006. She's made 234 titles as per IAFD, including scenes for elite companies such as Brazzers and Bangbros. Her twitter page has 134,000 followers even though she never responds to her fans' tweets (For reference, Gracie Glam has 91,000 followers on twitter). She has an AVN Award nomination for Best New Starlet. The cited sources are mostly interviews, some of which are even videos (So you have direct, visual proof). ] (]) 23:58, 30 November 2014 (UTC)Redban *'''Keep''' - I disagree with the notion that Audrey Bitoni is a "non-notable" pornstar. She's been around since 2006. She's made 234 titles as per IAFD, including scenes for elite companies such as Brazzers and Bangbros. Her twitter page has 134,000 followers even though she never responds to her fans' tweets (For reference, Gracie Glam has 91,000 followers on twitter). She has an AVN Award nomination for Best New Starlet. The cited sources are mostly interviews, some of which are even videos (So you have direct, visual proof). ] (]) 23:58, 30 November 2014 (UTC)Redban
:That direct visual "proof" is a promotional video from ], falling under ]. ] (]) 00:28, 1 December 2014 (UTC) :That direct visual "proof" is a promotional video from ], falling under ]. ] (]) 00:28, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
::The ZZinsider video is hardly "promotional." Is there a reasonable cause to believe she lied in that interview, given the general tone and the non-sexual answer relating to her name's origin? It's not as though the interview was part of a porn flick. Furthermore, the page uses other interview sources from radioshows, magazines, and internet sites.] (]) 02:45, 1 December 2014 (UTC)Redban ::The ZZinsider video is hardly "promotional." Is there a reasonable cause to believe she lied in that interview, given the general tone and the non-sexual answer relating to her name's origin? It's not as though the interview was part of a porn flick. Furthermore, her page uses many other interview sources from radioshows, magazines, and internet sites.] (]) 02:45, 1 December 2014 (UTC)Redban
:::It is a promotional video by Brazzers and it wasn't even uploaded to Youtube by them.. The whole point of this AfD is that the article based these poor sources does not satisfy the notability guidelines. ] (]) 06:38, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
*'''Weak Keep''' - I wish that a performer who has this many videos and brushes with various awards had accomplished more, but on Misplaced Pages popularity is not enough. I'll do some looking for content, but if I can't find anything worthwhile, I will change this to Delete. --] ] ☮ღ☺ 00:00, 1 December 2014 (UTC) *'''Delete <s>Weak Keep</s>''' - I wish that a performer who has this many videos and brushes with various awards had accomplished more, but on Misplaced Pages popularity is not enough. I'll do some looking for content, but if I can't find anything worthwhile, I will change this to Delete. --] ] ☮ღ☺ 00:00, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
:If it's worth much to you, I found out that she was nominated for "New Starlet of the Year" in 2008 for XBiz. That plus the 3 AVN nominations is solid for a woman who has done 234 films. Gianna Michaels did 200+ more scenes than Bitoni, and she has 4 AVN awards and 1 XBiz, a similar rate to Bitoni. ] (]) 03:03, 1 December 2014 (UTC)Redban
::I appreciate the info and I think its fairly well known how much I stand up for the under-represented ones of society, but even I have to face facts. At the very least, we should Wikify this article so that its easier to bring back once she wins an AVN or similar award. --] ] ☮ღ☺ 20:16, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
:::I consider myself pretty damn creative when it comes to extracting content and prose from a source, but there has to be something to work with first. I messaged her purported PR rep asking for sources to help out, so we'll see what happens. --] ] ☮ღ☺ 18:26, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
* '''Keep'''. Enough delete articles - after Phoenix Marie, and now this! Audrey Bitoni is a significant personality and has a place here. She deserves a Misplaced Pages article over a number of amateur football players and some terrorists and politicians. It is a popular star in the world! Greetings from Bulgaria!--] (]) 13:08, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per nominator's sound and accurate analysis. There is no credible claim that the subject passes PORNBIO, with only nominations and insignificant employee-of-the month type awards. No independent sourcing as required by the GNG and by BLP, just blogs, promotional interviews, press releases, and data dumps. No reliable sourcing for any biographical content; none meeting the standard of "a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy". Just another BLP contrived from primary and promotional sources. ] (]) 14:05, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
:: Our sources are Xcitement Magazine, ZZBabes, ZZinsider (video), Tampa Deja Vu (Video), XXXWasteland, XBiz, XtremeMagazine, and a Mark Madden (video) interview for 105.9 radio. Plus, we have the usual IAFD.com. Granted, these sources may seem like trashy, unreliable "press releases" and/or "promotional interviews," but you apparently forget that she's a pornstar. You're not going to get any information from the federal government or from CNN about Audrey Bitoni. The sources we're using for her page are the best we can do for her, or for any pornstar except Jenna Jameson, Sasha Grey, and Ron Jeremy. Either this page remains or you remove 99% of the pornstar biographies on Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 19:38, 1 December 2014 (UTC)Redban
:::If 99% of the pornstar biographies on Misplaced Pages don't have sources that would meet our standards for living people in other professions then you are right, we should remove 99% of the pornstar biographies on Misplaced Pages. The whole point of our notability standards is that we need ''independent'' and ''reliable'' sources, not "the best we can do". ] (]) 17:56, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
:<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the ]. ]<sup>]</sup> 03:06, 2 December 2014 (UTC)</small>
:<small>Note: This debate has been added to the ] ]. ]<sup>]</sup> 03:06, 2 December 2014 (UTC)</small>
:<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the ]. ]<sup>]</sup> 03:07, 2 December 2014 (UTC)</small>

* '''Delete''' Per nom. Fails ]. —&nbsp;]&nbsp;<sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub> 03:35, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' per above arguments. <span class="unicode" style="white-space:nowrap;">]<span style="display:inline-block; margin-bottom:-0.3em; vertical-align:-0.4em; line-height:1.2em; font-size:85%; text-align:left;">]<br/><abbr class="abbr" title="intermediate level of English" {{#if:|lang="{{{3}}}"}}><small>(en-2)</small></abbr></span></span> 15:24, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
:*Per which above arguments? None of them provide any evidence for notability as defined in our guidelines. ] (]) 21:57, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

*'''Comment'''. Doesn't seem to pass ]. However, instead of this page being deleted, I'd suggest that PORNBIO needs to be changed so that obviously notable performers such as Audrey can remain on Misplaced Pages. The current guidelines basically include a handful of award winners, and exclude everyone else. ] (]) 00:47, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
:*And what's wrong with that? We shouldn't be hosting articles about ], especially when they are claimed to be involved in activities that many people find distasteful, without proper independent reliable sources. ] (]) 20:45, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
::*I agree that reliable sources are necessary. However, whether or not some people find porn to be "distasteful" should definitely NOT be a factor in determining whether someone is worthy of inclusion on Misplaced Pages. And narrowing the list of Misplaced Pages-worthy performers to award winners is especially problematic -- we don't demand that mainstream actors or athletes be award winners for inclusion on Misplaced Pages, so it seems like we're holding porn performers to an unfairly high standard. ] (]) 23:50, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
:::*We hold mainstream actors and athletes to the standard of having coverage in independent reliable sources, just as we do porn actors, so we are actually being scrupulously fair. And our inclusion criteria are not based on whether an article subject is "worthy". ] (]) 19:10, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Fails PORNBIO without award wins. Fails GNG without significant coverage by reliable sources. The article's sources are low quality and I'm only finding press releases in searches. ] (]) 00:29, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' The article fails ] and ]. --] (]) 08:38, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' not one of the keep votes has any semblance of policy and wishful thinking is not notability. Delete arguments are policy based] <sup>'']''</sup> 09:02, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's ] or in a ]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' <!--Template:Afd bottom--></div>

Latest revision as of 15:27, 25 March 2023

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. especially due to strength of arguments from nominator and Hullaballoo Wolfowitz Go Phightins! 00:04, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Audrey Bitoni

AfDs for this article:
Audrey Bitoni (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Non-notable pornographic actress whose article is supported by poor sources. Fails both PORNBIO in that her "awards" are not significant and the general notability guidelines due to the paucity of reliable sources that exist for her. Morbidthoughts (talk) 21:45, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

  • Keep - I disagree with the notion that Audrey Bitoni is a "non-notable" pornstar. She's been around since 2006. She's made 234 titles as per IAFD, including scenes for elite companies such as Brazzers and Bangbros. Her twitter page has 134,000 followers even though she never responds to her fans' tweets (For reference, Gracie Glam has 91,000 followers on twitter). She has an AVN Award nomination for Best New Starlet. The cited sources are mostly interviews, some of which are even videos (So you have direct, visual proof). Redban (talk) 23:58, 30 November 2014 (UTC)Redban
That direct visual "proof" is a promotional video from Brazzers, falling under WP:NOTRELIABLE. Morbidthoughts (talk) 00:28, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
The ZZinsider video is hardly "promotional." Is there a reasonable cause to believe she lied in that interview, given the general tone and the non-sexual answer relating to her name's origin? It's not as though the interview was part of a porn flick. Furthermore, her page uses many other interview sources from radioshows, magazines, and internet sites.108.41.160.197 (talk) 02:45, 1 December 2014 (UTC)Redban
It is a promotional video by Brazzers and it wasn't even uploaded to Youtube by them.. The whole point of this AfD is that the article based these poor sources does not satisfy the notability guidelines. Morbidthoughts (talk) 06:38, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Delete Weak Keep - I wish that a performer who has this many videos and brushes with various awards had accomplished more, but on Misplaced Pages popularity is not enough. I'll do some looking for content, but if I can't find anything worthwhile, I will change this to Delete. --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 00:00, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
If it's worth much to you, I found out that she was nominated for "New Starlet of the Year" in 2008 for XBiz. That plus the 3 AVN nominations is solid for a woman who has done 234 films. Gianna Michaels did 200+ more scenes than Bitoni, and she has 4 AVN awards and 1 XBiz, a similar rate to Bitoni. 108.41.160.197 (talk) 03:03, 1 December 2014 (UTC)Redban
I appreciate the info and I think its fairly well known how much I stand up for the under-represented ones of society, but even I have to face facts. At the very least, we should Wikify this article so that its easier to bring back once she wins an AVN or similar award. --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 20:16, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
I consider myself pretty damn creative when it comes to extracting content and prose from a source, but there has to be something to work with first. I messaged her purported PR rep asking for sources to help out, so we'll see what happens. --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 18:26, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Keep. Enough delete articles - after Phoenix Marie, and now this! Audrey Bitoni is a significant personality and has a place here. She deserves a Misplaced Pages article over a number of amateur football players and some terrorists and politicians. It is a popular star in the world! Greetings from Bulgaria!--Hillary Scott`love (talk) 13:08, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Delete per nominator's sound and accurate analysis. There is no credible claim that the subject passes PORNBIO, with only nominations and insignificant employee-of-the month type awards. No independent sourcing as required by the GNG and by BLP, just blogs, promotional interviews, press releases, and data dumps. No reliable sourcing for any biographical content; none meeting the standard of "a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy". Just another BLP contrived from primary and promotional sources. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo) (talk) 14:05, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
Our sources are Xcitement Magazine, ZZBabes, ZZinsider (video), Tampa Deja Vu (Video), XXXWasteland, XBiz, XtremeMagazine, and a Mark Madden (video) interview for 105.9 radio. Plus, we have the usual IAFD.com. Granted, these sources may seem like trashy, unreliable "press releases" and/or "promotional interviews," but you apparently forget that she's a pornstar. You're not going to get any information from the federal government or from CNN about Audrey Bitoni. The sources we're using for her page are the best we can do for her, or for any pornstar except Jenna Jameson, Sasha Grey, and Ron Jeremy. Either this page remains or you remove 99% of the pornstar biographies on Misplaced Pages. 108.41.160.197 (talk) 19:38, 1 December 2014 (UTC)Redban
If 99% of the pornstar biographies on Misplaced Pages don't have sources that would meet our standards for living people in other professions then you are right, we should remove 99% of the pornstar biographies on Misplaced Pages. The whole point of our notability standards is that we need independent and reliable sources, not "the best we can do". 82.9.185.151 (talk) 17:56, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica 03:06, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions. NorthAmerica 03:06, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica 03:07, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment. Doesn't seem to pass WP:PORNBIO. However, instead of this page being deleted, I'd suggest that PORNBIO needs to be changed so that obviously notable performers such as Audrey can remain on Misplaced Pages. The current guidelines basically include a handful of award winners, and exclude everyone else. 209.90.140.72 (talk) 00:47, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
  • I agree that reliable sources are necessary. However, whether or not some people find porn to be "distasteful" should definitely NOT be a factor in determining whether someone is worthy of inclusion on Misplaced Pages. And narrowing the list of Misplaced Pages-worthy performers to award winners is especially problematic -- we don't demand that mainstream actors or athletes be award winners for inclusion on Misplaced Pages, so it seems like we're holding porn performers to an unfairly high standard. 209.90.140.72 (talk) 23:50, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
  • We hold mainstream actors and athletes to the standard of having coverage in independent reliable sources, just as we do porn actors, so we are actually being scrupulously fair. And our inclusion criteria are not based on whether an article subject is "worthy". 82.9.185.151 (talk) 19:10, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Audrey Bitoni (2nd nomination): Difference between revisions Add topic