| Revision as of 09:38, 15 December 2014 editMagioladitis (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Rollbackers908,576 editsm cleanup using AWB (10524)← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 01:12, 28 February 2024 edit undoCewbot (talk | contribs)Bots7,695,716 editsm Maintain {{WPBS}}: 5 WikiProject templates. Keep majority rating "B" in {{WPBS}}. Remove 4 same ratings as {{WPBS}} in {{WikiProject Biography}}, {{WikiProject College football}}, {{WikiProject National Football League}}, {{WikiProject United States}}.Tag: Talk banner shell conversion |
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{{ITN talk|24 April|2004}} |
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{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|living=no|listas=Tillman, Pat|1= |
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{{WikiProject Biography|military-work-group=yes|military-priority=Low|sports-work-group=yes|sports-priority=Low}} |
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{{WikiProject Military history|class=B|B-Class-1=yes|B-Class-2=yes|B-Class-3=yes|B-Class-4=yes|B-Class-5=yes|Biography=yes|US-task-force=yes}} |
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{{WikiProject United States|importance=Low|AZ=Yes|AZ-importance=High}} |
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Shouldn't there be some mention of Tillman's conviction and imprisonment for assault, when he was a juvenile? ] (]) 13:04, 3 November 2023 (UTC) |
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== disputed source/claim == |
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The article incorrectly states that the ] has a significantly higher rate of fire than the ], which is not true, besides the fact that the ] has been standard for quite some time. ] (]) 05:19, 3 July 2011 (UTC) |
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:No, it doesn't say that. It says it is {{xt|capable of greater accuracy during higher rates of fire}} - not that it is faster, but that it is more accurate at high rates. That's not the same thing. |
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:The statement has what appears to be a ] to support it. |
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:If you wish to add clarification or amend it, ''with an appropriate ]'', please go ahead - or make a suggestion here. But we do need references. <small><span style="border:1px solid;background:#00008B">]]</span></small> 08:17, 26 July 2011 (UTC) |
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== Tackles == |
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There are two sources of stats in the infobox. One say 92 tackles, the other 230. A recent edit has changed the number to 238 which seems unsourced but I'm afraid I don't know enough to decide between these two figures. Please can someone sort this out, perhaps put an inline ref next to the source for the correct figure? Thanks. --] (]) 21:35, 28 November 2011 (UTC) |
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== Synopsis is incorrect == |
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== Prof Michael I. Niman == |
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Who is Prof. Michael I. Niman and why is he quoted in this article? It would make sense for the article to explain why he has authority in this subject. |
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At the very top of the article, it is stated Tillman completed multiple tours before being killed. Later you say he was killed DURING his second tour. One or the other is wrong. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 23:14, 9 December 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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] (]) 11:19, 30 April 2022 (UTC) |
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: Well, ref 2 says "Tillman served in several tours of duty, including time in Iraq as part of Operation Iraqi Freedom as well as a stay in Afghanistan to serve in Operation Enduring Freedom." The article could perhaps be clearer either in wording or which references it uses to support the content in that respect. Something interesting for you to sort out if you wish...<ref>{{Cite news|url=http://www.biography.com/articles/Pat-Tillman-197041 |title=Pat Tillman Biography |publisher= 2006 A&E Television Networks}}</ref> --] (]) 23:31, 9 December 2011 (UTC) {{Reflist |local=true}} |
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== Where was he born? == |
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== Request for comment on description of Tillman's killing == |
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There is an inconsistency in this article, the second paragraph says he was born in San Jose, CA but the sidebar says Fremont, CA. ] (]) 07:42, 23 May 2013 (UTC) |
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The circumstances of Tillman's killing are disputed, with indications towards both manslaughter and accident. The current description of the cause of death as ] gives (in my opinion) too strong an impression of the latter. I believe we ought to find a more neutral way to describe it. ] (]) 13:54, 10 November 2020 (UTC) |
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Yeah where was he born ] (]) 18:07, 23 January 2014 (UTC) |
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*'''Support''' Although I personally believe that he was killed in friendly fire, that bit in the lede should be made more neutral. ~ ]] 22:16, 11 November 2020 (UTC) |
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*'''Attribute''' in the lead (note that we already attribute it in the body.) Most of the sources, especially higher-quality ones, are carefully-worded and say that eg. his death was eventually ruled to be friendly fire by congressional investigations or by the investigation by the U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Command; our article reflects that, so the lead should as well. I would be skeptical about ''replacing'' the word because almost any other word would carry implications that aren't well-backed-up by the sources, but given that the circumstances of his death were at least clearly disputed ''at the time'', if for different reasons than this RFC is focused on, I don't think it weakens things too much to note the source of the final legal determinations. This is comparable to how we word coverage of crimes (stating X was found guilty by Y rather than overtly stating guilt in the article voice); while this wasn't strictly a criminal investigation it was in many respects similar. Note that this might require a degree of rewording and restructuring to the lead (I would personally prefer to avoid wording like {{tq|were the subject of national attention when he was killed in action as a result of what a congressional investigation determined was friendly fire}}, since wedging it in there sort of implies doubt; whereas it would be better if we could split and rearrange stuff so we can say something like {{tq|Investigations by the Department of Defense and U.S. Congress eventually concluded that Tillman's death was the result of ]}}, which seems like neutral wording to me when dealing with a legal determination that was at a bare minimum controversial or shocking at the time.) --] (]) 22:28, 12 November 2020 (UTC) |
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*'''Attribute''' per ].] (]) 18:35, 14 November 2020 (UTC) |
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== Rank == |
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== Some simple facts == |
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Some things may be in dispute, but some shouldn't be. |
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OK so if was posthumously promoted to corporal from specialist, should the pictures of him alive be labelled "corporal" or "specialist"? The DOD reports cited in the article consistently refer to him as "specialist". --]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 18:40, 30 August 2013 (UTC) |
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:What was his precise rank (E-4, E-5, or whatever) at his death? What was his function in his unit, and how many soldiers if any were under his command? Was he commanding Serial 1? Was the incident in daylight or night? What were Tillman's wounds? Were there other casualties during the incident?] (]) 02:15, 25 January 2021 (UTC) |
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== Results? == |
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:Does alleviate the concern over any confusion that might take place as to his rank and the photograph? Regards, ] (]) 18:58, 30 August 2013 (UTC) |
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::That edit is both simple and elegant; works for me. Regards, ] (]) 19:08, 30 August 2013 (UTC) |
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"According to AP analysis, three lower-level officers are expected to be punished, and Kauzlarich may be one of the three." And...? ] (]) 03:54, 15 April 2022 (UTC) |
Who is Prof. Michael I. Niman and why is he quoted in this article? It would make sense for the article to explain why he has authority in this subject.
Mosquitoer2 (talk) 11:19, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
The circumstances of Tillman's killing are disputed, with indications towards both manslaughter and accident. The current description of the cause of death as friendly fire gives (in my opinion) too strong an impression of the latter. I believe we ought to find a more neutral way to describe it. Konli17 (talk) 13:54, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
Some things may be in dispute, but some shouldn't be.
"According to AP analysis, three lower-level officers are expected to be punished, and Kauzlarich may be one of the three." And...? 104.153.40.58 (talk) 03:54, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
Referencing and citation: criterion met
