Misplaced Pages

Talk:Charles Bukowski: Difference between revisions

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
Browse history interactively← Previous editContent deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 22:20, 10 April 2015 editMr. Guye (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers70,953 edits →POV: new section← Previous edit Latest revision as of 18:54, 12 December 2024 edit undoStephenMacky1 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users9,785 edits →Poetry editorial controversy: ReplyTag: Reply 
(42 intermediate revisions by 26 users not shown)
Line 8: Line 8:
|archive = Talk:Charles Bukowski/Archive %(counter)d |archive = Talk:Charles Bukowski/Archive %(counter)d
}} }}
{{WikiProjectBannerShell|blp=no {{WikiProject banner shell|blp=no
⚫ |class=B|vital=yes|listas=Bukowski, Charles|1=
|1=
{{WikiProject Biography|a&e-work-group=yes |a&e-priority=mid}}
⚫ {{WPBiography |living=no |class=B |listas=Bukowski, Charles}}
{{WPPoetry|class=B|importance=mid}} {{WikiProject Poetry|importance=mid}}
{{WikiProject Germany|importance=mid}}
}} }}


== Bukowski's Polish roots? == == On cynicism ==


In the writing section: Isn't this an opinion and should be more factual?
The last name "Bukowski" is typically Polish. I know that the ending "ski" is generally of Slavic origin, however there is one important thing which is the letter preceding, and it goes like this:
* - usky (Belarusian)
* - vsky (Russian, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Czech, Slovak, Polish)
* - vskiy (Russian, Ukrainian)
* - vski (Bulgarian, Macedonian, Polish)
⚫ * - wski (Polish only)
As you see, the surname "Bukowski" is clearly of Polish descent. Now, how come there is no sign of Polish roots in Charles's biography? Was his father's family tree unexplored? ] (]) 21:15, 5 March 2014 (UTC)


"A few critics and commentators, also, supported the idea that Bukowski was a cynic, as a man and a writer; yet he was a pure stoic, not a cynic. As Bukowski stated himself in an interview: 'I've always been accused of being a cynic. I think cynicism is sour grapes. I think cynicism is a weakness.'"
::We work with ] and what can be ]. Misplaced Pages articles are written by volunteers, usually using the strong sources they have to hand. The article says: "His paternal grandfather Leonard had emigrated to America from Germany (the present territories of Poland) in the 1880s."<font style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:15px;">] (])</font> 00:11, 6 March 2014 (UTC)


I agree with you; I will re-write it to remove the unsupported, "yet he was a pure stoic, not a cynic".
: In order to the address the IP or IPs who have edited the article. There is a consensus on how to deal with the name of city called either Danzig or Gdańsk. You can find it here: ]. Since the time in question, namely when Bukowski's grandmother left the city, has been before 1945, the name is as given in the article. Please refrain from editing that. -- ] (]) 15:51, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
] (])


⚫ == He was Polish ==
::Sure, but we need to mention that it was behind a different countries border when Leonard was born. <font style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:15px;">] (])</font> 16:16, 6 March 2014 (UTC)


Not german ] (]) 02:32, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:::: We could say that Charles Bukowski's grandfather from his father's side (Leonard Bukowski) was a germanised Pole and it wouldn't be a lie at all. It is also possible that Charles's grandmother from his father's side was German, living in Germany (today's Polish lands) and probably having some smaller extent of Polish ancestry from Gdańsk (then - Danzig, a German city with high Polish population). As in case of his grandmother it is nothing more than just a hypothesis, his grandfather on the other hand, had to have some Polish roots for sure, as his last name is of pure Polish origin and no ethnic German could have a surname with the "wski" ending. What's about Charles's mother's family, I guess they were of nearly 100% German stock, however there could be also little of Ashkenazi Jewish genetic admixture. ] (]) 19:58, 7 March 2014 (UTC)


== Poetry editorial controversy ==
== POV ==


Hello ]. I found another . I think the content of this section should be integrated into the "Death and legacy" section to comply with neutral point-of-view. Furthermore, unreliably sourced content should be still removed. Issues were raised about this section before but no one discussed then. ] (]) 17:27, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
There is some POV towards the subject of this article. It promotes his style and story. --] (]) 22:20, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

:I put it in the writing section:
:- because over half of his work was published posthumously
:- the poetry books (not novels) you can purchase nowadays have pretty much all been subject to this effect, i.e. OG poetry books are out of print
:So it effects the majority of currently published work.
:I think there are enough sources now. There were also original manuscripts scans available on bukowski.net but that website is down now, which were useful for comparing editorialization to originals. ] (]) 18:18, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
::I recommended the "Death and legacy" section because it already contains content about posthumous publications. The writing section appears to be about his style, influences, etc. Misplaced Pages generally does not permit controversy sections either. I can mark the bukowski.net source as dead but the 45th source is unreliable since it is a forum. I also could not verify the term "John Martinized" in any of the sources. ] (]) 18:54, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 18:54, 12 December 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Charles Bukowski article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Article policies
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Archives: 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 3 months 
This  level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject iconBiography: Arts and Entertainment
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group (assessed as Mid-importance).
WikiProject iconPoetry Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Poetry, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of poetry on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoetryWikipedia:WikiProject PoetryTemplate:WikiProject PoetryPoetry
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconGermany Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Germany on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GermanyWikipedia:WikiProject GermanyTemplate:WikiProject GermanyGermany
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

On cynicism

In the writing section: Isn't this an opinion and should be more factual?

"A few critics and commentators, also, supported the idea that Bukowski was a cynic, as a man and a writer; yet he was a pure stoic, not a cynic. As Bukowski stated himself in an interview: 'I've always been accused of being a cynic. I think cynicism is sour grapes. I think cynicism is a weakness.'"

I agree with you; I will re-write it to remove the unsupported, "yet he was a pure stoic, not a cynic". Johnskrb2 (talk)

He was Polish

Not german 184.147.70.38 (talk) 02:32, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Poetry editorial controversy

Hello Subvertd. I found another source. I think the content of this section should be integrated into the "Death and legacy" section to comply with neutral point-of-view. Furthermore, unreliably sourced content should be still removed. Issues were raised about this section before but no one discussed then. StephenMacky1 (talk) 17:27, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

I put it in the writing section:
- because over half of his work was published posthumously
- the poetry books (not novels) you can purchase nowadays have pretty much all been subject to this effect, i.e. OG poetry books are out of print
So it effects the majority of currently published work.
I think there are enough sources now. There were also original manuscripts scans available on bukowski.net but that website is down now, which were useful for comparing editorialization to originals. Subvertd (talk) 18:18, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
I recommended the "Death and legacy" section because it already contains content about posthumous publications. The writing section appears to be about his style, influences, etc. Misplaced Pages generally does not permit controversy sections either. I can mark the bukowski.net source as dead but the 45th source is unreliable since it is a forum. I also could not verify the term "John Martinized" in any of the sources. StephenMacky1 (talk) 18:54, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
Categories: