Revision as of 18:25, 19 October 2015 editJobas (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users23,399 edits →"54% Protestant, 40% Catholic, 3.5% Deists... 1.5% irreligious"← Previous edit |
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] (9 May 2021):{{pb}} |
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The Arbitration Committee advises that administrators may impose "reliable-source consensus required" as a discretionary sanction on all articles on the topic of Polish history during World War II (1933-45), including the Holocaust in Poland. On articles where "reliable-source consensus required" is in effect, when a source that is not a high quality source (an article in a peer-reviewed scholarly journals, an academically focused book by a reputable publisher, and/or an article published by a reputable institution) is added and subsequently challenged by reversion, no editor may reinstate the source without first obtaining consensus on the talk page of the article in question or consensus about the reliability of the source in a discussion at the ].{{pb}} |
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__TOC__ |
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== Non Jewish == |
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== Doesn't take a broad enough view of the origins of the Holocaust == |
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The 'origins' section of this article, though detailed and straight forward, focuses too much on the eugenic motivations of the genocide and largely fails to mention major socio-political factors which were also integral to the reasoning of the major perpetrators, for instance the ] and the concept of ]. Other genocide articles such as that for the ] and ] genocides have 'background' sections which establish a time line of sorts of increasing tension and racism, often making reference to several specific events. A suggestion for how this could look in this article is 'antisemitism in Europe' (which may mention eugenics and the volkisch movement) then 'world war 1' (which could make reference to the notorious german military 'account on Jews') then 'stab in the back myth and German Revolution' (both important in the development of the 'jewish Bolshevism' canard) then 'rise of the nazi party' before continuing the article as it is. |
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These are simply suggestions, and I don't expect everyone or indeed anyone to take them up. However, I just think there should be some major restructuring of this section. |
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Regards ] (]) 23:11, 5 September 2015 (UTC) |
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== Jewish resistance section paraphrasing the views of a death camp commander == |
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The section on Jewish resistance provides the views of SS officer and death camp commander ]. The excerpt reads "Franz Stangl, who had commanded two death camps, was asked in a West German prison about his reaction to the Jewish victims. He said that only recently he had read a book about lemmings. It reminded him of Treblinka." Wouldn't it be more desirable for Misplaced Pages to have a more neutral and impartial viewpoint on the behaviour of the Jewish victims than the viewpoint of a death camp commander? I think this last section, with its inflammatory reference to "]" (a reference, it would appear, to the false claim that lemmings commit mass suicide) could be removed from the section of quotations.<small><span style="text-shadow:4px 4px 15px #00F,-4px -4px 15px #49F;">]</span> • <span style="text-shadow:4px 4px 15px #F80,-4px -4px 15px #F08;">]</span></small> 02:19, 15 September 2015 (UTC) |
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:If the quote was good enough for Raul Hilberg, I'm quite sure it's good enough for Misplaced Pages. --] (]) 23:35, 19 September 2015 (UTC) |
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== Questions == |
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How is the German for an obscure term like Trawniki of any use to anyone? The article is bloated enough as it is, let alone with pointless German translations like ''Trawnikimänner'' in it. And why is Hollande's opinion still in this article? His views should be on his own page, not cluttering up this one. --] (]) 23:34, 19 September 2015 (UTC) |
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== Origin of the word genocide. == |
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In the "Uniqueness" section, it says "The term genocide was coined as a crime against humanity in 1943 by Polish Jewish lawyer Raphael Lemkin to describe the systematic extermination of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire at the start of the 20th century in what would become known as the Armenian Genocide. Lemkin based the definition of genocide on the Armenian genocide.". But the sources being cited don't exactly back this up. In fact, in some ways they are explicitly contradictory of this. It seems that the word Genocide was actually coined to describe the actions of the Nazis. "In 1944, Lemkin wrote a book about the Nazis. In it, he combined the Greek "genos" for race with the Latin "-cide" for killing: Genocide. Lemkin had named the crime he spent a lifetime trying to prevent.... Taking hundreds of pages of Nazi laws and decrees, Lemkin wrote a comprehensive book that laid bare the Nazis' brutal plans. And he invented a word for the crime the Nazis were committing. Genocide."(from Citation 451). It seems that, while coining the term to describe the actions of the Nazi party, he perhaps used the Armenian Genocide as an example of the type of behavior he was talking about, as evidenced by "...when Raphael Lemkin coined the word genocide in 1944 he cited the 1915 annihilation of Armenians as a seminal example of genocide" (Auron) but this doesn't actually say that the word was coined to describe said annihilation of Armenians, but rather that it was another example of the word being coined in reference to something else (Note the use of "''a'' seminal example" rather than "''the'' seminal example". Either way, given the specificity of the wording in the sources, to say that the term was coined specifically to describe the Armenian Genocide would, I believe, be ] since at least one of the sources being cited explicitly states that it was coined to describe the actions of the Nazis, and none of them, as far as I can tell, specifically say it was coined to describe the Armenian genocide. ] (]) 21:45, 29 September 2015 (UTC) |
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== Holocaustic? == |
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The holocaust was not just Jewish murders. There were five million others murder. This page is a lie ] (]) 11:19, 13 December 2024 (UTC) |
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The Holocaustic? Is that even a word? <small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 05:17, 5 October 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:{{tq|The Holocaust was the genocide of European Jews during World War II. Between 1941 and 1945, Nazi Germany and its collaborators systematically murdered some six million Jews across German-occupied Europe, around two-thirds of Europe's Jewish population.}}" This page is about that, for other genocides look further {{tq|Separate Nazi persecutions killed a similar or larger number of non-Jewish civilians and prisoners of war (POWs);}} If you only had an ability to read with comprehension. ] (]) 13:42, 13 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:No, why? ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 19:53, 5 October 2015 (UTC) |
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::Sorry this is Zionist Propaganda.. the Holocaust was about White Christian Supremacy and Nationalism.. they murdered as many non jews and Jews.. Sorry by this page is a lie in denial and disingenuous. PERIOD. |
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It is on the search bar. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 02:26, 6 October 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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::You insults prove my point.. its typical MAGA right wing crappp when you dont have an answer because I state the truth you resort to attacks ] (]) 16:30, 6 January 2025 (UTC) |
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== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 31 December 2024 == |
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== Perpetrators == |
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The second paragraph states: "Between 100,000 and 500,000 people were direct participants in the planning and execution of the Holocaust.” Reference is to: Radcliff, Pamela. "Interpreting the 20th Century: The Struggle Over Democracy" (PDF). Chantilly, Virginia: The Great Courses. pp. 104–107. This turns out be be from a course outline without any other reference. |
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Perhaps the latest reference to the number of perpetrators gives an estimate of "200,000 Holocaust perpetrators” (reported in Dan Stone p. 109) |
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In Rise of Nazi Germany - Persecution of Jews, 3rd paragraph. Grammar error |
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<ref name="Stone 2011 p. ">{{cite book | last=Stone | first=Dan | title=Histories of the Holocaust | publisher=Oxford University Press | location=Oxford New York | year=2011 | isbn=978-0-19-956679-2 | page=}}</ref> |
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"Out of the 560000 jews 130000 was able to emigrate between 1933 and 1937, most of them towards South Africa, Mandatory Palestine, and South America." |
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If there is no opposition, I propose to change the figures and reference in the next couple of days. ] (]) 11:01, 9 October 2015 (UTC) |
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"Out of the 560,000 Jews in Germany, 130,000 were able to..." ] (]) 06:36, 31 December 2024 (UTC) |
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: Done ] (]) 08:20, 31 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 January 2025 == |
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== "54% Protestant, 40% Catholic, 3.5% Deists... 1.5% irreligious" == |
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{{edit extended-protected|The Holocaust|answered=yes}} |
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Protestants and Catholics are Christians. '']'' 18:18, 19 October 2015 (UTC) |
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he Holocaust primarily targeted Jews, with approximately 6 million Jewish people murdered by the Nazis and their collaborators. However, millions of non-Jews were also killed during this period as part of the Nazi regime's broader campaign of persecution and extermination. Estimates for non-Jewish victims include: |
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Romani (Gypsies): Between 200,000 and 500,000. |
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This data about German, Not about Nazis. I don't think that all German been part of Holocaust. The user is been pushing propaganda here as cliaming Nazi is a Christian terrorism. What nazi done was not in name of Christianity, The Category:Persecution by Christians it's include only vicitoms who killed by christians in the name of Christianity. Not for other purpose .--] (]) 18:25, 19 October 2015 (UTC) |
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Disabled individuals: Approximately 250,000, targeted through the T4 euthanasia program. |
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Polish civilians: Around 1.8 to 2 million non-Jewish Poles. |
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Soviet civilians and prisoners of war: Between 3.3 and 5 million Soviet POWs and countless civilians. |
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Political dissidents, resistance members, and others: Tens of thousands, including Communists, Socialists, and trade unionists. |
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Jehovah’s Witnesses: About 1,900 to 2,000 were executed for refusing to pledge allegiance to the Nazi regime. |
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Homosexuals: Thousands were arrested, with an estimated 5,000 to 15,000 dying in concentration camps. |
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In total, estimates for non-Jewish deaths during the Holocaust vary but are generally between 5 to 11 million. Combined with Jewish victims, the Holocaust claimed the lives of roughly 11 to 17 million people. ] (]) 21:31, 2 January 2025 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done''': it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a ] and provide a ] if appropriate. Note that the very first paragraph of the introduction already reads "Separate Nazi persecutions killed a similar or larger number of non-Jewish civilians and prisoners of war (POWs); the term Holocaust is sometimes used to refer to the persecution of these other groups."<!-- Template:EEp --> ] (]) 22:02, 2 January 2025 (UTC) |
In Rise of Nazi Germany - Persecution of Jews, 3rd paragraph. Grammar error
"Out of the 560000 jews 130000 was able to emigrate between 1933 and 1937, most of them towards South Africa, Mandatory Palestine, and South America."
he Holocaust primarily targeted Jews, with approximately 6 million Jewish people murdered by the Nazis and their collaborators. However, millions of non-Jews were also killed during this period as part of the Nazi regime's broader campaign of persecution and extermination. Estimates for non-Jewish victims include:
Romani (Gypsies): Between 200,000 and 500,000.
Disabled individuals: Approximately 250,000, targeted through the T4 euthanasia program.
Polish civilians: Around 1.8 to 2 million non-Jewish Poles.
Soviet civilians and prisoners of war: Between 3.3 and 5 million Soviet POWs and countless civilians.
Political dissidents, resistance members, and others: Tens of thousands, including Communists, Socialists, and trade unionists.
Jehovah’s Witnesses: About 1,900 to 2,000 were executed for refusing to pledge allegiance to the Nazi regime.
Homosexuals: Thousands were arrested, with an estimated 5,000 to 15,000 dying in concentration camps.
In total, estimates for non-Jewish deaths during the Holocaust vary but are generally between 5 to 11 million. Combined with Jewish victims, the Holocaust claimed the lives of roughly 11 to 17 million people. Rossen (talk) 21:31, 2 January 2025 (UTC)