| Revision as of 02:08, 13 December 2015 edit24.171.139.101 (talk) →Franzisca Schanzkowska's nationality.← Previous edit |
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== Sources without Dates or Identifiers == |
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== Franzisca Schanzkowska's nationality. == |
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Hi, I've noticed several sources without any identifying years, DOIs, ISBNs, etc. to aid in finding the original sources or mirrors of them. Would anyone still watching this page be able to help in updating the source list to match the standards? Cheers, ] in ] of ] 00:46, 27 February 2018 (UTC) |
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Franzisca Schanzkowska was not a Polish factory worker, she was a German farm girl from Hygendorf in Pomerania. See the new book "Almost Anastasia" where Felix Schanzkowsky's daughter Waltraud clearly states that "we were German, not Polish". ] (]) 18:24, 10 December 2015 (UTC) |
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:I don't see any. If you mean the ], the full reference is in the ] section. ] (]) 10:16, 27 February 2018 (UTC) |
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::"D'oh" moment, gotten too used to single reference sections, and having pages and so forth integrated into Reference sections instead of having them as a secondary section. Sorry, ] in ] of ] 05:14, 6 March 2018 (UTC) |
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::Just an additional note, there seem to be a bit of a mix of Footnoting, and Referencing, happening in the "Notes" section. Looking at notes 4, 8, 10 for example, with actual references being cited (including books, and websites). Just seems a bit off having them mixed with the specific page numberings especially under a "Notes" section. Sorry if I seem a bit disruptive, but I'm happy to have a look into perhaps finding a better referencing system to fix this if that would help, while keeping the specific page numbering kept. Cheers, ] in ] of ] 05:31, 6 March 2018 (UTC) |
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== Is the DNA statement correct? == |
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:Suggest you check back on the history section of this article. At least four references state she was Polish. ] (]) 23:57, 10 December 2015 (UTC) |
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Article says, "Instead, Anderson's mitochondrial DNA '''matched''' that of Karl Maucher, a great-nephew of Franziska Schanzkowska. Most scientists, historians and journalists who have discussed the case accept that Anderson and Schanzkowska were the same person." |
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:No need to check anywhere. She was born in Pomerania which was a part of Prussia. From her written Anmeldung from 1919, her nationality is clearly stated as Preussen (Prussia). She had a German passport. ] (]) 19:03, 11 December 2015 (UTC) |
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:Did the editor mean to say that the mitochondrial DNA of Anderson is '''exactly the same''' as that of Karl Maucher? If so, what is the relationship or range of relationship implied? Does it imply lineal descent on one side? Or they both had the same grandmother, or what? (] (]) 01:01, 19 May 2019 (UTC)) |
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::The problem is how to balance one source that says Waltraud was German against four that say Schanzkowska was Polish, including Anderson's own autobiography. ] (]) 19:18, 11 December 2015 (UTC) |
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:Yes, it is correct. People with the same maternal ancestry have matching mitochondrial DNA. Because Maucher's maternal grandmother and Schanzkowska were sisters, they have the same mitochondrial DNA. Schanzowska's mother is Maucher's maternal great-grandmother. ] (]) 07:19, 19 May 2019 (UTC) |
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:::When one is born in Germany, one is German! There is no and, if or but about that. See the German version of Misplaced Pages. They got it right.] (]) 01:02, 12 December 2015 (UTC) |
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::::I am not convinced that ] is German. The article says she was born in the German Empire, spoke German and lived in Germany to a great extent. This seems to adequately cover the German aspect. I looked at the German wikipedia; it looks no different to the coverage here. ] (]) 08:32, 12 December 2015 (UTC) |
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:What does John McEnroe have to do with Anna Anderson? The German Misplaced Pages states that she was a farmgirl from Pomerania in West Prussia. Not a word about Polish, and why should there be? The woman was born in PRUSSIA, which makes her German. Nothing else. That snobbery labeled her a Polish factory worker, is another thing. She was a German girl from the province of Pomerania who worked as a waitress, a farm laborer, a maid and a factory employee. In short, she was a German girl from the working class. NOT a Polish factory worker.] (]) 19:41, 12 December 2015 (UTC) |
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::McEnroe was born in Germany. You said one born in Germany is German. |
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::If you click on the DNB/GND link on the German wikipedia article you can see that she is described as ''wahrscheinlich identisch mit Franziska Schanzkowski, einer polnischen Landarbeiterin'', click on the LCCN link and it says '' in all probability was Franziska Schanzkowski, a Polish farm worker''. Click on the VIAF link and then the "about" tab it says ''Nationality: US - United States (ISNI Wikidata German National Library); PL - Poland (German National Library)''. It is not snobbery that "labeled" her Polish, it is the sources. That she worked in a factory is clearly sourced to three independent secondary sources and is not doubted by any source. ] (]) 20:23, 12 December 2015 (UTC) |
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:::It does not matter what the sources say, they are plain wrong. The lore about the Polish factory worker has long ago covered up reality, but if Misplaced Pages really wants to be a reliable source, you have to go farther than to sources that are wrong and find the truth for yourself. Franzisca's family was of Polish origin, the name was von Czenstkowski, which Franzisca changed to Schanzkowski when she came to Berlin. But the fact that her parents and herself were all born in West Preussen, makes them all German. Nothing else. Franzisca never set a foot in Poland. That the area later became a part of Poland, has nothing to do with her German nationality. And she was NOT a factory worker, she was a farm girl who happened to spend some time in a factory, polishing hand grenades. The years before her attempted suicide, she worked as a waitress in Bütow and as a farm laborer at Gut Friederikenhof. The correct description would be 'a German working girl'. Here is a comment from the German talk site: Die Einordnung als Polin für Franziska Tschanzkowski ist falsch, da sie einen preußischen Pass hatte und somit Deutsche war, ihre "Ethnie" spielt dabei nur eine untergeordnete Rolle und gibt dem Artikel einen rassistischen Anstrich. Seems like they took out 'die Einordnung als Polin' from the article, which you should also do. As for McEnroe, he was born on an American military base by American parents and is thus American. ] (]) 20:44, 12 December 2015 (UTC) |
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::::It does matter what the sources say. You seem to be relying on one single source against four others and, frankly, that will not do. You are also ignoring statements made in Anna Anderson's own biography. Also please do not use caps in your reply, that is considered shouting and against Misplaced Pages standards. ] (]) 23:57, 12 December 2015 (UTC) |
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::First of all, Anna Anderson never wrote a biography. Second, when you read King and Wilson's book, you will see on page 269 that they write: Franziska Schanzkowska was no Polish peasant. The place of her birth......in 1896 the entire region belonged to Germany. Again, when you are born in Germany, you are a German citizen. There is absolutely no way around that. As I said earlier, when you look at her Anmeldung from 1919, she herself gives her nationality as German. The Anmeldung is published in Pierre Gilliard's book.] (]) 01:21, 13 December 2015 (UTC) |
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Hi, I've noticed several sources without any identifying years, DOIs, ISBNs, etc. to aid in finding the original sources or mirrors of them. Would anyone still watching this page be able to help in updating the source list to match the standards? Cheers, Doctor Crazy in Room 102 of The Mental Asylum 00:46, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
level-5 vital article is rated FA-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
