| Revision as of 13:33, 26 January 2016 editSMcCandlish (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, File movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers, Template editors201,792 edits →Hang Én (Vietnam) third-largest cave in the world: new section← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 19:54, 21 November 2024 edit undoKingsmasher678 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers2,602 edits →Sourcing Assistance: ReplyTag: Reply | ||
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| ==Re:stubs== | |||
| {{WikiProject banner shell| | |||
| Hi all - I've been asked to drop a note here to explain about stub categories for caving, from the point of view of ]. For stubs on caving to be in line with similar stub types (and therefore keep Wikiproject Stub sorting happy), a comparison can be made with the stubs used for articles on mountaineering. With climbing stubs, there is one category, with the template {{tl|climbing-stub}}. Articles on individual climbs are double-stubbed - that is, two different stub templates are added - with climbing-stub and whatever regional geo-stub is appropriate. This makes it possible for editors who know climbing to find articles, and also editors who know their own local areas. Some examples of this method of stubbing can be seen at ], ], and ]. | |||
| {{WikiProject Caves}} | |||
| }} | |||
| == International Year of Caves and Karst == | |||
| I see that we have now entered - is there any push on any group's part on Misplaced Pages to play a part by improving coverage of these topics during 2021? cheers ] (]) 11:44, 18 January 2021 (UTC) | |||
| By analogy, stubs about individual caves should be marked with {{tl|caving-stub}} and also with the relevant geo-stub. Every country in the world has its own geo-stub, of the form CountryName-geo-stub, and many subnational regions also have (such as individual English counties, for example). | |||
| == Articles for delection - Vecors Cave System == | |||
| {{tl|Cave-stub}} has been nominated for deletion, as it is likely to cause problems for WikiProject Stub sorting, and is also likely to lead to the possibility of regional geo-stubs being removed from articles, which would result in less likelihood of the articles being edited. In any case, double-stubbing as described above will achieve a similar effect to having a separate cave-stub, whilst also providing extra sorting for editors on a region-by-region basis. | |||
| I have recommended that the article ] be deleted. See ] for the discussion. ] (]) 17:23, 25 January 2021 (UTC) | |||
| By the way, you might want to consider the idea of a WikiProject-specific talk-page assesment system, as used by many other WikiProjects (for example {{tl|WPBeatles}}). These have the advantage that you can rate ''all'' articles related to your wikiproject, not just stubs, and furthermore the template would be dedicated specifically for your WikiProject (stub templates are for use by all WP editors, whether they are poart of your project or not, and can therefore lead to problems of usefulness and scope). ]...''<small><font color="#008822">]</font></small>'' 23:59, 1 October 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Cueva de las Manos Request for Collaboration == | |||
| : The {{tl|caving-stub}} template was broken, as I found when adding it to ] (produced an extra blank line and stray <nowiki>]]</nowiki>). After a lot of fiddling I '''think''' I've fixed it, although the template still files under "T" in the category listing which may be avoidable. Apologies if I've broken anything, but it looks as if it's better than it was! ] 09:51, 15 October 2007 (UTC) | |||
| Hi! I'm working on an article on ] and I would love to collaborate in getting the article to GA class! If you have the time, please feel free to stop by and help with the article. Thanks! ] (]) 21:09, 17 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
| == First cave dive == | |||
| == missing assessments == | |||
| I just spotted a conflict between two articles, ] and ]. One claims "first successful cave dive in Britain" was in Wookey Hole 1935, the other "the world's first cave dive in Swildon's Hole on October 4, 1936". To me this doesn't compute, but I know nothing of this field. Maybe it is a simple matter of what equipment was used? If so, please clarify. If it is a case of there being no firm documentary evidence, the material should be rewritten or removed please. ] (]) 11:40, 24 March 2008 (UTC) | |||
| Could someone PLEASE assess my 2017 articles ], ] as obviously I cant do it myself ? | |||
| The first cave dive using brearthing apparatus (Standard Diving Dress) was at Wookey Hole in 1935 on 14 July by F.G. Balcombe. Starting at 00:40 and ending at 01:00 (reference: The Log of the Wookey Hole Exploration Expedition, p. 51 (1935)). | |||
| Thank you !--] (]) 22:33, 14 February 2022 (UTC) | |||
| :{{U|Wuerzele}}, you can actually assess your own articles up to and including B-class, as can any other user in good standing. Cheers, · · · ] ]: 05:33, 11 September 2022 (UTC) | |||
| == DYK? ALERT - Main Page appearance in DYK? - ] == | |||
| Earlier attempts at Swildon's hole were conducted by Balcombe and Sheppard and the latter sucessfully passed Sump 1 on 4 October 1936 (reference: A Glimmering in Darkness). | |||
| FYI to all Cave project participants - ] is appearing in the Main Page's DYK? section TODAY '''<u>until</u>''' | |||
| Earlier cave dives had been conducted overseas by Swiss divers using hard hat gear (reference: The Darkness Beckons) ] (]) 10:52, 19 December 2008 (UTC) | |||
| *15 April 0:00 (UTC), 14 April 20:00(New York/Eastern), 14 April 17:00 (Los Angeles/Pacific), 15 April 1:00 (London/BST), 15 April 9:00 (Tokyo/JST), 15 April 10:00 (Sydney/AEST). | |||
| Cheers, ] (]) 16:51, 14 April 2022 (UTC) | |||
| == User script to detect unreliable sources == | |||
| == Paisley Caves == | |||
| {{Main|User:Headbomb/unreliable}} | |||
| A recent news item says that evidence for the earliest humans in North America was found in ], Oregon. Not sure if this wikiproject would be interested, but the article was recently born and could use whatever perspectives apply. The article's infobox could really use someone more experienced with it. —] 19:48, 5 April 2008 (UTC) | |||
| I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to ] and ]s. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the ]. The idea is that it takes something like | |||
| *John Smith "" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14. (<code><nowiki>John Smith "" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14.</nowiki></code>) | |||
| and turns it into something like | |||
| * John Smith "{{highlight||pink}}" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14. | |||
| It will work on a variety of links, including those from {{tl|cite web}}, {{tl|cite journal}} and {{tl|doi}}. | |||
| The script is mostly based on ], ] and ] and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed. | |||
| ==requesting review== | |||
| Do note that this is '''not a script to be mindlessly used''', and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at ]. Questions, comments and requests can be made at ]. | |||
| I've been working on ] and i know very very little about speleology and caves, i just had to expand this article as it's subject is of great interest currently. briefly, i need expert opinion if it's possible, if anyone could have a look at the article and give me some recommendations, it'd help a lot. | |||
| -  <span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;">] {] · ] · ] · ]}</span> | |||
| thx ]] 08:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC) | |||
| <!-- i see..... dead wp's--> | |||
| <span style="font-size:90%">This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from.</span> Delivered by: ] (]) 16:01, 29 April 2022 (UTC) | |||
| == Misplaced Pages:Good article reassessment/Mammoth Cave National Park/1 == | |||
| <!-- Message sent by User:Terasail@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User:Headbomb/sandbox3&oldid=1085285969 --> | |||
| == Split proposed for Cave diving == | |||
| Your attention is needed at ].--] <small>(]/]/]/]/]) </small> 15:19, 21 June 2008 (UTC) | |||
| The article is large. I have proposed splitting out the content on ]. Discussion at ]. · · · ] ]: 05:24, 11 September 2022 (UTC) | |||
| == ] == | |||
| == Project-independent quality assessments == | |||
| I'm trying to save this from deletion or a redirect. ] (]) 19:48, 22 October 2008 (UTC) | |||
| Quality assessments are used by Misplaced Pages editors to rate the quality of articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at ], but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent ] was approved and has been implemented to add a {{para|class}} parameter to {{tl|WikiProject banner shell}}, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment. | |||
| ==Are maps to be considered primary or secondary sources?== | |||
| Please give your input at ]. --''']''' (] ]) 12:05, 16 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
| No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to {{tl|WikiProject banner shell}}, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories. | |||
| ==FYI: New articles== | |||
| A bot has been set up, which looks through the new Misplaced Pages articles and picks up those that are likely related to caves. The search results are available at ] and are normally updated on a daily basis. ] (]) 01:12, 29 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
| However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass {{tl|WPBannerMeta}} a new {{para|QUALITY_CRITERIA|custom}} parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present. ] (]) 13:16, 10 April 2023 (UTC) | |||
| == Userbox ] == | |||
| == Sourcing Assistance == | |||
| Hey everyone. I've made a fairly simple userbox with the same image as is used for the WP:Caves banner, and incorporating the ] tag. Any thoughts? Take a look at my user page to see it in "action". I was torn between the fairly boring "is a caver" and something like "enjoys dark wet holes" but figured that for something that resides in the Template: namespace it should be worded as unprovocatively as possible :-) – ] (]) 17:32, 10 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| Good afternoon! My work on the page ] led me down the path of doing more to expand articles on the geography and protected places of the county, including ]. There's just enough information available to establish notability, but not enough to truly expand the article beyond stub status right now. One source that I've found that might have information on the cave is . Unfortunately, I cannot seem to find a copy of this available online or in any local libraries. Bit of a long shot, but does anyone here have access to a copy of this publication? If so, would you be willing to help expand information on the article, or make scans of any relevant entries in the book? Thanks! ] (]) 18:37, 5 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Infobox Cave alterations == | |||
| :Yes, I can get access. What do you need from that book? | |||
| I've added a couple of suggestions regarding alterations to ] on the template's ]. Feel free to add your 2¢. ] (]) 15:07, 1 May 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :] (]) 19:54, 21 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == ] == | |||
| I've now created a new article devoted to cave surveying, separate from the ] article as discussed on the talk page there. I've used the contents of the cave cartography section from that page as the basis. Added more detailed information on the BCRA grades and a section on hydrolevelling amongst other stuff. Currently lacking in citations, images and plenty of other info, particularly on software -- please feel free to contribute! ] (]) 00:13, 2 May 2009 (UTC) | |||
| * I tried to add a sample survey image, but found the thumbnail illegible. Any hints on how to make these sort of things clearer? ] (]) 20:51, 24 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ::I added the image back but a little higher in the lede section. A more vertical example of a survey would probably fit the article better but the image you added is an improvement. Thanks for it. There is no way that I know of to make the details in the thumb itself more legible. The interested reader will have to click on it to get a better view. ] (]) 21:50, 26 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| Thanks. I know that this survey is less than ideal, but at least there's no copyright argument with it. It is my hope that a WikiProject Caves participant will replace it with a more suitable one. BTW, the full-size image also does not look so great, for some reason; I thought I had uploaded it at its original size and res, but even 'save for web' res shoulda looked okay...? ] (]) 00:52, 27 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| *Oh wait; I see that clicking the thumb brings you to a ''preview'' of the full-size image, which itself is too big to display. Should I replace the full-size image with one that is resized to fit the page? ] (]) 01:09, 27 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ::Clicking on the thumb will take you to an image page in the file namespace and if the image is too big, it will have an indicator that the full resolution is available with one more click. Sometimes viewing these detailed images is like trying to view a scene through a drinking straw. Images that are mainly used to give a general impression such as portraits tend to fit but those that contain detailed information such as maps tend to need a full resolution examination "through the drinking straw" to be fully appreciated. But, if you think you can improve it, go for it -- it's the wiki way. ] (]) 13:32, 27 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == Project tags == | |||
| Is there a policy on using the WikiProject:Caves tag? Is there a tag-master? It is inconsistently used (e.g. many articles on caves do not have the tag). Do I just go ahead and tag away? ] (]) 17:29, 26 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :In my opinion, tag away. ] (]) 21:46, 26 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| OK, but for example, is it appropriate to ''replace'' a WikiProject Geography tag with a WikiProject Caves tag, since one is a subproject of the other? It would appear to be less cluttered that way, rather than including both tags. I've also asked this on WikiProject Geography talk, but have not had a reply yet. ] (]) 01:05, 27 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :While WikiProject Caves is generally considered a subproject of Geography, it is not strictly so. There are many existing and potential articles that would fall into the Caves project that have nothing to do with Geography. So, I would tend not to replace an existing Geography tag but to add a Caves tag. ] (]) 13:18, 27 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == Caves on the map? or Infobox Coordinates for Caves == | |||
| The article of this discussion page mentions putting caves on the map (an idiom?), and I see reference to overlaying caves onto maps using satellites. I don't know how you guys feel, or what you're affiliation with caving is, but I personally don't want the average person knowing about most of the caves in my area. Nor would I like them to have access to a map showing where these caves are all at. After seeing the abuse the general public puts caves through, I think I will avoid helping out this aspect of wikipedia. As with the ], I don't see the point in having a list of caves. No one cares about every cave, and nor should they. Some are unremarkable. And most importantly, cavers practice location secrecy, so it's not likely that list will ever be more than 1% complete. With a lot of caves being on private property, having coordinates will be a problem too. Coordinates are supposedly innocent, but let's not kid ourselves or anyone else. The whole point of coordinates is to visit that location. And visiting a cave on private property is breaking the law unless you have full permission from the owner. You also don't want inexperienced people visiting a remote and dangerous cave, especially those with vertical entrances or those with no oxygen. I think it's appropriate to direct people interested in caves and caving to join a local grotto or visit the NSS website for more information. ] (]) 03:56, 27 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :You are not alone in your concerns about freely publishing cave locations, especially unprotected, vulnerable ones. Most of the time this information can be removed from the article on the grounds of needing a ]. Reliable sources for the geocoord data are hard to find and often do not exist. Often these geocoord additions are simply ] and that is very much frowned upon. ] (]) 13:46, 27 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| If there is a place for coord data on the infobox, then people will continually strive to fill it in, despite the wishes of landowners, conservationalists etc. I am no fan of location secrecy, but out of respect for those who are I removed coords from one such cave infobox and contacted the contributing Wikipedian with my reasons why, only to have that contributor repost the coords. So it really is a matter of whether the coord field should be part of the infobox or not. Is it important enough to have our US caving Wikipedians stop contributing? ] (]) 05:42, 29 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :Yeah I've come across others who don't believe in coordinate secrecy, and some of them are related to geocachers. Geocachers are great as a whole, but every group seems to have a bad apple. Coordinates by themselves are totally innocent. But the function they serve is a means to an end. It provides for a way to find and go in the cave. I would argue not all caves should be known to the public. Some are just too dangerous. It's in my best interest to keep the average public away from a 150 foot pit in my region. Because it has unstable areas, and because most don't know how to navigate such a cave. It's a health risk to the extreme! I don't want that on my conscience. Also, several caves in my region are on private property and plenty of them get trashed by trespassers. Wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a utopia where revealing coordinates to these caves would not be detrimental to the caves or their inhabitants? This ain't that world. Coordinates are convenient. And convenience breeds lack of respect. Coordinates empower the amateur who lacks the needed experience to navigate and respect caves in a proper fashion. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 09:07, 29 July 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :Current policies allow removal of geocoord data when unsourced on precisely those grounds. The coords you removed appear to be sourced so he was within his rights to add them back. Lack of notability is another means of keeping these coords out -- not every cave is notable. I have used this argument to keep a sensitive cave on private property off of the wiki -- it was completely not notable and should not have had an article. ] (]) 02:16, 30 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| I don't think the key discussion is whether coords may or may not be removed, or whether secrecy is a valid management tool or not, or if there are bad people in the world. The real question is: should coords be included as an infobox field, if it means it will discourage US Wikipedians from contributing? ] (]) 16:21, 31 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :Sure that's a good point, seeing as how I'm on this side of the pond. But... I look at wikipedia like this. It should be an online version of an encyclopedia, except for one that anybody can edit. Would it seem appropriate to have coordinates in a paper encyclopedia? Encylopedias are not meant to be the "be all to end all" and that's probably another reaason why they're not peer review worthy. If coordinates were included, then I think you'd have to reconsider the function of wikipedia. It would be more like a waymark or geocache website detailing all your favorites places and how to get there. But if this is really to be like an encyclopedia, where you come to learn ''about'' the caves, then I recommend leaving coordinates out of it. Vague descriptions of locations can be put in the first few paragraphs. For instance, for a cave in the US you could put the state, county, and perhaps even a vague location reference like "on the flanks of Mt. St. Helens" or "apart of the Appalachian mountain range." That would suffice for me and most people I think. Coordinates are best left for map services. ] (]) 18:47, 31 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ::Do you have any evidence that US Wikipedians are being discouraged from contributing because of a field in an infobox? Can't one just leave that field blank and ignore it for particular articles? I think that show caves and well known and protected caves will not be harmed by the coords; but, sensitive, lesser known and unprotected caves (most of which probably should not have articles) should not have coords. Those coords can be removed on policy grounds. Misplaced Pages is not a cave database so not all caves should appear -- only the notable ones that can be reliably sourced. And not all facts about caves should appear. All of that having been said, I have no problem with removing the coord field from the infobox if that is what concensus wants to do. ] (]) 14:06, 1 August 2009 (UTC) | |||
| Evidence? The NSS Cavechat site has a ban on revealing cave locations, and I think it is official NSS policy as well. Leitmotiv's comments (above) are typical, I'd say. As for "coords can be removed on policy grounds" - let's face it, they'll just get re-entered unless the field is blocked, or removed altogether. ] (]) 04:30, 2 August 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :Yeah my comments are typical of NSS Cavers, and generally speaking, representative of caver attitudes here in the US. At least among the cavers I've met on the west coast. Imo, having an infobox is begging for it to be filled, and will be a contstant editing nightmare if it's not omitted. However, I do agree with WTucker that notable caves could probably have coordinates (but could be listed elsewhere in the article). And defining notable, I would argue, should be different from how wikipedia defines it. Notable caves, in this regard, I think would be caves that are publicly accessible especially in the form of recreational caves, recognized monument caves, tourist caves, and perhaps even some historical caves (though I think that would be a bit of contention). As in the case of ], which is a historically prominent cave due to the large amounts of archaeological artifacts found therein, it is on private property. I live in the area, and I hear the owner does not look too kindly upon people trespassing onto his ranch to visit his cave or messing with his cattle. He's had people try to pothunt the cave, which is a punishable act by law. As it stands now, the article on Fort Rock Cave already notes the location of the cave in a short description. ] (]) 04:57, 2 August 2009 (UTC) | |||
| '''RE: ]'s comments''' | |||
| ], I understand what you are saying about not saying where a cave is but I have to say if people get hurt while attempting something totally not suited for the regular public it isn't really our fault. To give you an idea of what I mean, I jumped ] earlier this summer & near the rocks there are signs saying not to jump. People (like me) do it anyway. Now, lets say I got injured doing it. Would I go off on ]? NO! Why? Because it is my own fault if I get hurt. I'm doing something that can be potentially dangerous so if I get hurt the blame is on me. | |||
| My point is if someone gets hurt or killed doing something that we all know can be & ''is'' dangerous (]) the blame is not on ]. It is like at a grocery store where there is a toy car that you put a quarter in and there is a little tag on the side that say something like ''"we will not be responsible for any injuries obtained while using this machine"''. See what I'm getting at; caving is dangerous & everyone knows it so if someone is too foolish to get proper experience before trying to satisfy his needs to go check out some cave somewhere, it isn't our fault for providing directions. Our directions are for cavers, not the regular public who mostly have no experience in this field but if they think they are too cool for experience & they want to take our directions & go to some cave to show how ''hardcore'' they are, it is up to them. | |||
| Now we would still feel sorry for them. Nobody likes to see someone die in that fashion (geez dying in a cave is probably one of the worst ways to die out there) but there is a difference between feeling sorry for someone & blaming someone else for something that isn't their fault. Leitmov, I'm sorry if this post sounds dismissive but I'm trying to explain something here; I will be the first to admit I disagree with your ideas but I'm going to disagree respectfully. Regards ] (]) 13:53, 7 August 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :I don't think this is the proper forum to discuss whether cave location secrecy is appropriate or not. It's been discussed to death on every caving forum, with no conclusion - chalk it up to "cultural differences". The Misplaced Pages issue, in my opinion, is whether it's worth including coords in the cave infobox if it means excluding the participation of US cavers on Misplaced Pages. Is it really that important to have coords - what's the benefit? ] (]) 14:00, 7 August 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ::Ian, I'm sorry. I just joined this project & I though I'd give my thoughts. I didn't realize this was a ''long hung jury''. I apologize. I do stand by my statement; I still beleive the coordinates are okay to have but that if as far as I'm going to go because you asked me to stop. Now what are you trying to say about the US cavers? I don't get your point there. | |||
| ::Also, how come you indent your posts with a little star (*) & not just like this with a semi-colon (;)? Do different editors have different ways of doing it or what? I'm just wondering... several other editors do it that way too. ] (]) 14:24, 7 August 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :::I won't spend much time responding AndrewEnns, but I will summarize your response as revolving around the people who visit the caves, and not enough about the caves and their contents. All three should be big priorities, and Misplaced Pages as an avenue for dispersing cave coordinates seems to be counterintuitive to the function of Misplaced Pages which is to teach. I can't protect a fool from himself, but I sure can protect the inhabitants, archeaological contents, and geologic cave features from the fools. Coordinates on caves usually aren't found in books or websites, so I would imagine that any coordinate for a cave that is unsourced (which would be the majority) could be deleted. ] (]) 20:37, 7 August 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Hi AndrewEnns, sorry about the goofy indents, will try to refrain. My 'point' about US cavers is that most are against publishing cave locations. It doesn't matter why, or whether it makes sense, or whether I or anyone else agrees with that, it is just a fact. So, if Misplaced Pages is a place where people publish cave locations, US cavers won't like that, and may cease to be contributors because they know that someone will add a cave infobox to their contributions and the coords will get included. It logically follows that removal of coords from the infobox template also removes the US cavers' objection, and they may contribute without the fear that coords must inevitably be added in. ] (]) 04:14, 10 August 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :::::I concur! Ha.. And I think this topic should be merged with the above, because I see no difference between the two. ] (]) 04:22, 10 August 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Or maybe moved to ]. ] (]) 23:14, 16 August 2009 (UTC) | |||
| As per discussion I have removed the Coordinates field (but retained the location field). Please, discuss further before reverting. I believe Location is adequate, while removal of Coords satisfies the concerns of our US members. Pls direct your comments to ]. ] (]) 16:53, 3 September 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ::I am a US caver and agree with the comments above. Publishing cave coordinates online is a big mistake, unless that cave is already well-known or a show cave (in which case everyone should be encouraged to visit). Posting coordinates to a pristine cave screams out "destroy me" and that is what will happen. I have seen cave lists on the web before that did not compromise location. The approach was to list the USGS quadrangle only. Anyone serious about locating a cave listed this way will contact experienced cavers at the local grotto or ridgewalk the area themselves. I think this is a reasonable compromise that protects these caves while educating the public. February 9, 2010 <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 18:49, 9 February 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| ===Coordinates have to go back in internationally!=== | |||
| This is crazy and US-centric. I have spoken to American cavers and am aware that this part of their culture is locked-in and cannot be argued with. However in England and the rest of Europe cave locations are extensively published: . That's a fact, whether you agree with it or not. In practice sensitive caves have locked gates installed as we do not believe in ]. | |||
| Owing to this profound disagreement that will never be resolved, can I propose two Cave Infobox modes -- one for US caves, and one for the rest of the world? | |||
| There are two ways to do this. Either I can make a new Cave Infobox for the UK (or Europe) and leave the generic one suitable for Americans (works for ), or I can stick a country location field into the cave infobox which results in an error if the coords are filled in and country=US. I don't know which is the better approach. Comments?Goatchurch 08:45, 19 May 2010 (UTC) | |||
| :I think a separate template is obvious. Look at the lovely one they have in German: | |||
| ::I have no strong opinion either way. I was bold and removed the parameter because I knew how to do it while others were struggling. The consensus reached said that the coordinates parameter was to be removed from the infobox to remove the temptation to attempt to add coordinates for every cave article. There is nothing to prevent adding the coordinates to an article outside of the template. I can see the inverse, too; that being that the coordinates parameter can be left out of sensitive and unsourced cave articles. The temptation would be there but it can be ignored. I believe that we should contact ] and ] (they will probably show up here soon as they are probably watching this page and the infobox) to see if a new consensus can be reached. I, personally, would not like to see two infoboxes. The error idea sounds interesting; but, I can see even some U.S. caves may have well sourced coordinates such as many private show caves. As it is now, the parameter is removed from the template but coordinates can be added to articles outside of the template (if well sourced and necessary). Goatchurch, what is wrong with adding the coordinates outside of the template? ] (]) 12:46, 19 May 2010 (UTC) | |||
| :::I agree with WTucker. If coordinates are really needed you can enter them into the main body of the article with a reference. Two different templates is going to cause confusion. As it is, the Location field is starting to be used for coordinates. Just look at ]. We should specify what the Location field is for. Region specific, right? Country, State/Province, county? | |||
| :::Also WTucker, Misplaced Pages does not respect the location secrecy of sensitive caves. If there's a valid referenced coordinate, it can be applied and then it would be very hard to remove from the article. ] (]) 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC) | |||
| ::::In my experience, trying to control wikipedians is like trying to herd cats. Rules are often ignored. In my humble opinion, the best way to control the publication of inappropriate coordinate information would be by identifying and paroling articles of concern; and not my general prohibition. However, protection by obscurity will become more difficult over time with the advance of the internet. –<font style="color:#355E3B">]</font> <font style="color:#704214">]</font> 19:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC) | |||
| :::::I'm not sure what you mean exactly by paroling articles of concern. Protection by obscurity is effective but not full proof. And you're definitely right about the advance of the internet being a threat. That's why I'm on wikipedia now, to nip this in the bud. I imagine that the grottos of caving may only be forced to be more secretive about sensitive caves or the opposite will be true. The problem I personally have is with the public feeling they're entitled to know everything; when the public in general has not proved to be responsible with that knowledge. ] (]) 19:23, 19 September 2010 (UTC) | |||
| {{unindent|5}} | |||
| My only information on this topic comes from what I've read here and reports of cave vandalism in the US. I meant to type "patrolling" but my brain slipped. The term usually applies to oversight of new pages and the like. You could read ] and look into using ]. I my humble opinion you should probably confine your effort to caves within a specific area and then only those whose locations are not widely known. Best of luck on this. The coordinates of many well known caves in the US are available on the site and I think these should documented in Misplaced Pages. –<font style="color:#355E3B">]</font> <font style="color:#704214">]</font> 23:07, 19 September 2010 (UTC) | |||
| : Yeah most cavers are aware of the USGS names registered there. It will pretty much come down to as you say: patrolling sites of critical or sensitive concern. It's a never ending management problem! Thanks for the tips. ] (]) 21:17, 20 September 2010 (UTC) | |||
| == Are there enough articles on this subject to justify an ]? == | |||
| ]. | |||
| ] 23:44, 28 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| P.S.: See ]. | |||
| :I think there are enough articles with enough variety to justify an outline. I say, "Go for it." ] (]) 03:54, 29 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ::If there aren't enough articles now, there's definitely the potential for there to be. And it would be good to have an outline in place before those articles arrive. ] (]) 06:09, 21 August 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == Missing caves articles == | |||
| I've updated a list of geological places, including ] - ] (]) 12:47, 8 April 2010 (UTC) | |||
| == "list of caves" style unification == | |||
| I would like to unify the style of the "list of caves" pages. I propose to make them tables, like so: | |||
| {| class="wikitable" | |||
| |- | |||
| ! cave !! region !! sub region | |||
| |- | |||
| | ape cave || Washington State || Skamania County | |||
| |- | |||
| |} | |||
| I will start in France, as that is where I live now. Just a side note: I am an armchair caver, I think they're really cool, but I haven't done more than holiday caving at places like Ape Cave and Ice Cave in Washington state USA (near where I am from originally). | |||
| --] (]) 14:12, 15 May 2010 (UTC) | |||
| == Mystery Cave photos == | |||
| I recently visited ] in Minnesota and uploaded my best photos on Commons. I invite knowledgeable editors to have a look and hopefully assist with categorization or correct any terminology mistakes I may have made. Cheers. ] (]) 15:39, 2 June 2010 (UTC) | |||
| == Discussion of update to Template::Infobox cave == | |||
| I've stated a discussion about updating {{tl|Infobox cave}} on the template ]. The update is implemented using the meta template, {{tl|Infobox}}, and so the appearance will conform with that of other geographically oriented Infoboxes. I welcome your collaboration in this effort. | |||
| :P.S. Coordinates are not mentioned in the sandbox version. –<font style="color:#355E3B">]</font> <font style="color:#704214">]</font> 18:50, 19 September 2010 (UTC) | |||
| ==Merge discussion for ]== | |||
| ] An article that you have been involved in editing, ], has been proposed for a ] with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going {{ #if:Talk:Flowstone |]|to the article and clicking on the (Discuss) link at the top of the article}}, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. ] (]) 00:16, 25 November 2010 (UTC) <!-- Template:mergenote --> | |||
| == List of caves in xxx == | |||
| Hello cave people. We are working on a table at ]. We welcome your input, as the result will be used as the table format for ] too. Hopefully, before too many of these lists of caves are developed, this might become a standard. Please help, as we are not cave people, but you are. Unka Unka! :) Best, ] (]) 00:13, 19 February 2011 (UTC) | |||
| :The discussion is here: ]. ] (]) 00:19, 19 February 2011 (UTC) | |||
| == UBSS Cave sprint == | |||
| Taking place in the ] library, having produced a functional {{tl|Infobox ukcave}} infobox that hosts locations. | |||
| Very long term objective is to allow for the webscraper of wikipedia to harvest all the infoboxes and produce a table of longest and deepest caves, as well as maps. | |||
| Short term is to tidy up articles that relate to us, such as ] and take full advantage of the library to obtain historical citations, as well as keep up to date with current events. | |||
| Areas of special importance: ] and ] Goatchurch 01:29, 22 November 2011 (UTC) | |||
| :After 1 hour of hassling, have finally got the 3G internet connection going. General mail going out.Goatchurch 12:46, 22 November 2011 (UTC) | |||
| ::Time to wrap up at 6:30pm. Have edited ], ], ], ], ], ], ], created ], ], and tried to defend my from marauding deleters. UBSS is to be commended for putting many of their historical proceedings so we can make good cross references.Goatchurch 18:31, 22 November 2011 (UTC) | |||
| Day 2. Got some more students this time who are caving at the weekend, so they can deal with the caves they're planning to do.Goatchurch 10:38, 23 November 2011 (UTC) | |||
| == Discussion concerning deletion of Template:Infobox ukcave == | |||
| There is a discussion at ] about whether it would be better if there were not two separate infoboxes: {{tl|Infobox ukcave}} and {{tl|Infobox cave}}. A difference being discussed is that one infobox allows a precise cave location to be given and the other deliberately does not. There is discussion as to whether or not it is undesirable or contrary to policy for this difference to be maintained. The matter of location has previously been discussed on this page and at ]. ] (]) 23:29, 24 November 2011 (UTC) | |||
| ==RfC on the use of flag icons for sportspeople== | |||
| An ] about the ] restriction on the use of flag icons for sportspeople has been opened at ]. We invite all interested participants to provide their opinion ]. ] (]) 02:36, 24 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :That was some scattergun that you used to cause you to think that this RfC has anything to do with caves.] (]) 14:05, 28 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ==Lots of Caves== | |||
| Dozens of recent articles on Caves inside Gibraltar have been written which may interest some here as they invariaby hae been exploited to be used by Neanderthals or the Army. The latest is ] but that has a template which lists quite a few other recent articles. ] (]) 15:52, 11 May 2013 (UTC) | |||
| == Stalactite == | |||
| There is a discussion at ], regarding the coverage of the article - please feel free to contribute. ] (]) 22:01, 8 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :I think as the article stands now with my edits and supplied sources, that it was clearly evident that the article had limestone bias and omitted everything else, including the common ice stalactite (of a different mineral than limestone). The term lavacicle was never accepted worldwide and was a local phenomenon of the west coast of the United States. To date geologists and cavers worldwide use the term lava stalactite and lava stalagmite prolifically. ] (]) 22:10, 8 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| == ] == | |||
| I created ] (currently just a stub) for . Please feel free to help expand! --<font color="navy">]</font> <sub>(<font color="cc6600">]</font>)</sub> 22:00, 2 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| == Mayan caves in the Yucatan (seeking additional information for this article) == | |||
| Hello ! I have a question about Maya archeology . In the mid- 90s . I watched an interesting TV show . In it a group of people studied karst system in the Yucatan . At the deepest and furthest from the surface of the cave they found a small, stuffy stones input ( such as having the right kind of masonry ) , allegedly leading to the lower world (or sanctuary) Maya. This entry allegedly walled Mayan priests to keep out strangers in a holy place (like Spanish ) when they invaded their land. Log in to open did not. In this TV show is over. For information about entering I have never found . If you know , please tell me : what was this cave , and where in fact this is the input? Thank you in advance. text in Russian - http://www.mezoamerica.ru/forum1/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2131 . ] (]) 11:12, 15 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| == Wookey Hole Caves == | |||
| I've been doing some editing on ] (which I note is on this project page as a "notable cave") and believe it is nearing GA standard. I've asked for a peer review at ] particularly as I have limited knowledge of the specialist caving and cave diving terms and history in the article. In particular I'm unsure whether the individual chamber names & numbers should be capitalised and a sentence which says "Controversially, he was beaten to the discovery of the magnificent active streamway of Chamber 24 by Geoff Yeadon and Oliver Statham a couple of days later." without explaining why this was controversial. There are several points which might be understood by insiders but need to be clarified for a wider non-specialist audience. Any edits or suggestions would be great.— ] <sup>]</sup> 20:06, 3 December 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :Yeah, that controversial sentence lacks supporting evidence. Eligible to be edited out of existence. ] (]) 21:04, 3 December 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::Thanks. I've asked for clarification &/or a reference for this on the article and from the user who inserted it. If they are not forthcoming I will remove. Any other advice on the article would be great.— ] <sup>]</sup> 19:08, 4 December 2013 (UTC) | |||
| == Haiton del Guarataro == | |||
| I have added an entry for the Venezuelan cave ]. --] (]) 12:14, 26 December 2013 (UTC) | |||
| == Dog Hole and Pate Hole in Cumbria, Airmen's Cave in Texas == | |||
| I've rewritten the ] and the ] articles, and added an infobox cave to the ] article, and generally extended it. ] (]) 16:26, 30 December 2013 (UTC) | |||
| == New UK caving pages == | |||
| I have recently added the following pages: ], ]. ], ], ], and ]. Please improve! ] (]) 10:41, 23 January 2014 (UTC) | |||
| == Little Blue Lake (water-filled sinkhole in ]) == | |||
| Hi, I have just added an article about the ], a water-filled sinkhole located in ] (SA). This was created as a test project for a number of a future articles (i.e. other water-filled sites in SA) and to remove inappropriate content from another article. I had some difficulties in getting the '| coords', '| lat_d' and '| long_d' parts of the infobox to work. At the moment, there is no location marker on the map. can someone have a look at what I have done to figure out what I did wrong? ] (]) 11:26, 26 February 2014 (UTC) | |||
| * Fixed ] (]) 13:16, 26 February 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :Thanks ] (]) 18:51, 26 February 2014 (UTC) | |||
| == List of UK caving fatalities == | |||
| I have created a ]. ] (]) 17:08, 3 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| == Lamprechtsofen == | |||
| Hello Wikipedian cavers. I recently created an article for ], the second-deepest cave in the world. I am having trouble finding quality information about the cave online. I'm wondering if you could point me towards some reliable sources (like databases or something), to fill out information about the cave. (Or contribute yourself!) I'd like to work it up to submit to DYK in the next few days. — ''']''' <sup>]</sup> 08:35, 2 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :It's actually the fourth deepest - see .] (]) 15:49, 2 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::Good to know. It seems to be difficult to find up-to-date information on this. Thanks! — ''']''' <sup>]</sup> 06:56, 3 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
| == Comment on the WikiProject X proposal == | |||
| Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Misplaced Pages struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please ''']''' and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my ]. Thank you for your time! <small>(Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.)</small> ] (]) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| <!-- Message sent by User:Harej@enwiki using the list at http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User:Harej/WikiProjects&oldid=627879829 --> | |||
| == WikiProject X is live! == | |||
| ] | |||
| Hello everyone! | |||
| You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that ''']''' is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, ]! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you! | |||
| '''Note:''' To receive additional notifications about WikiProject X on this talk page, please add this page to ]. Otherwise, this will be the last notification sent about WikiProject X. | |||
| ] (]) 16:56, 14 January 2015 (UTC) | |||
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| == Skirwith request == | |||
| Hi, sorry to pop up out of the blue but I just wanted to let your project know that I made an article request for Skirwith . I hope it might tickle this project's fancy. I was very fond of the show cave but in no way competent to write the article. Cheers ] (]) 11:38, 10 February 2015 (UTC) | |||
| :Already done! Blimey. >> ] << Thanks ]!! Best wishes ] (]) 18:01, 10 February 2015 (UTC) | |||
| == Weathercote Cave == | |||
| I've added an article on ] - ] (]) 13:30, 16 February 2015 (UTC) | |||
| == Yordas Cave == | |||
| I've added an article on ] - ] ] (]) 16:57, 17 February 2015 (UTC) | |||
| == ] == | |||
| ], an article about a video game, is listed on its talkpage as being within the scope of this project. Just thought I'd point that out. ~ '']''<sup>(]|])</sup><small>]</small> 19:43, 8 April 2015 (UTC) | |||
| :Seems reasonable to me. Chase the link to the author: ]. ] (]) 03:00, 10 April 2015 (UTC) | |||
| == Cave Rescue Wikibook == | |||
| So on the main project page there's a suggestion for creating a Wikibook by merging content from the OUCC and CUCC expedition rescue guides. I'd like to start that but I'd appreciate some help if you're free; it's a good way to revise your cave rescue techniques at the very least! So a bit of a layout plan (very much copying the OUCC guide): | |||
| # Introduction | |||
| ## Avoiding Rescue | |||
| ## Precautions | |||
| ## Types of Incident | |||
| ## Responsibilities | |||
| # Rescue Procedure | |||
| ## Missed Callout | |||
| ## Injury Reported | |||
| ## Equipment Required | |||
| ## Problems | |||
| ## Dealing with Injury | |||
| ## Problems outside the Cave | |||
| # Rescue Techniques | |||
| ## Recovering a caver from a rope | |||
| ## Managing Exhaustion & Illness | |||
| ## First Aid | |||
| ## Warmth | |||
| ## Stretcher Rescues | |||
| ## Local Difficulties | |||
| # Case Study | |||
| # Further Reading | |||
| ] (]) 11:40, 22 April 2015 (UTC) | |||
| At the moment it's ], but feel free to move it if you think it should be elsewhere. ] (]) 12:31, 22 April 2015 (UTC) | |||
| == ] == | |||
| I started it but am worried about the sources. Any suggestions? ] (]) 19:30, 8 May 2015 (UTC) | |||
| :*{{cite book|last=Palmer|first=Arthur N.|title=Cave Geology|year=2007|publisher=CAVE BOOKS|location=Dayton, OH|isbn=978-0-939748-66-2}} | |||
| :*{{cite book|last1=Hill|first1=Carol|first2=Paolo|last2=Forti|title=Cave Minerals of the World (Second Edition ed.)|year=1997|publisher=National Speleological Society|location=Huntsville, AL|isbn=1-879961-07-5}} | |||
| :] (]) 13:22, 9 May 2015 (UTC) | |||
| ::There is a lot of terminology that could be put in there, but most would require a source (not that hard). Also, don't forget the terms ] and ]. ] (]) 23:24, 9 May 2015 (UTC) | |||
| :::Hi, Leitmotiv. :) Long time! Where have you been, in a cave? ] Thanks for the books. Actually, I cannot access them. Do you think the article is even needed at Misplaced Pages? ] (]) 19:56, 10 May 2015 (UTC) | |||
| Sooooooooo, cavers, do you think you might chip in and add an item or two to help expand the list? ] (]) 19:56, 10 May 2015 (UTC) | |||
| == Hang Én (Vietnam) third-largest cave in the world == | |||
| We somehow only {{em|just}} now have an article on ], the world's third-largest cave. ] created it, from the content at the very minimal Vietnamese Misplaced Pages article, and I've worked on it a little. I added a couple of Web sources, but none of them have been ]d for details. At ], I did a large source-dump regarding pretty much all major news about HSD, and a lot of these sources also cover HÉ. Caving is not my normal topic area, so editors more familiar with this stuff should dig in (or rappel down). <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — ] ] ] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 13:33, 26 January 2016 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 19:54, 21 November 2024
| This is the talk page for discussing WikiProject Caves and anything related to its purposes and tasks. |
|
| Archives: 1 |
 | This project page does not require a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||
| ||||||||
International Year of Caves and Karst
I see that we have now entered International Year of Caves and Karst - is there any push on any group's part on Misplaced Pages to play a part by improving coverage of these topics during 2021? cheers Geopersona (talk) 11:44, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
Articles for delection - Vecors Cave System
I have recommended that the article Vercors Cave System be deleted. See here for the discussion. Langcliffe (talk) 17:23, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
Cueva de las Manos Request for Collaboration
Hi! I'm working on an article on Cueva de las Manos and I would love to collaborate in getting the article to GA class! If you have the time, please feel free to stop by and help with the article. Thanks! Tyrone Madera (talk) 21:09, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
missing assessments
Could someone PLEASE assess my 2017 articles Wimsener Höhle, Spanish Society of Speleology and Karst Science as obviously I cant do it myself ? Thank you !--Wuerzele (talk) 22:33, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
- Wuerzele, you can actually assess your own articles up to and including B-class, as can any other user in good standing. Cheers, · · · Peter Southwood : 05:33, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
DYK? ALERT - Main Page appearance in DYK? - Stephen Bishop (cave explorer)
FYI to all Cave project participants - Stephen Bishop (cave explorer) is appearing in the Main Page's DYK? section TODAY until
- 15 April 0:00 (UTC), 14 April 20:00(New York/Eastern), 14 April 17:00 (Los Angeles/Pacific), 15 April 1:00 (London/BST), 15 April 9:00 (Tokyo/JST), 15 April 10:00 (Sydney/AEST).
Cheers, Shearonink (talk) 16:51, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
User script to detect unreliable sources
Main page: User:Headbomb/unreliableI have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Misplaced Pages. The idea is that it takes something like
- John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14. (
John Smith "" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14.)
and turns it into something like
- John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.
It will work on a variety of links, including those from {{cite web}}, {{cite journal}} and {{doi}}.
The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.
Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.
This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:01, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
Split proposed for Cave diving
The article is large. I have proposed splitting out the content on Cave diving regions. Discussion at Talk:Cave diving#Due for a split some time. · · · Peter Southwood : 05:24, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Project-independent quality assessments
Quality assessments are used by Misplaced Pages editors to rate the quality of articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at Misplaced Pages:Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a |class= parameter to {{WikiProject banner shell}}, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.
No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to {{WikiProject banner shell}}, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.
However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass {{WPBannerMeta}} a new |QUALITY_CRITERIA=custom parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present. Aymatth2 (talk) 13:16, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
Sourcing Assistance
Good afternoon! My work on the page Perry County, Tennessee led me down the path of doing more to expand articles on the geography and protected places of the county, including Alexander Cave. There's just enough information available to establish notability, but not enough to truly expand the article beyond stub status right now. One source that I've found that might have information on the cave is Caves of Tennessee, by Thomas Barr Jr.. Unfortunately, I cannot seem to find a copy of this available online or in any local libraries. Bit of a long shot, but does anyone here have access to a copy of this publication? If so, would you be willing to help expand information on the article, or make scans of any relevant entries in the book? Thanks! nf utvol (talk) 18:37, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, I can get access. What do you need from that book?
- Kingsmasher678 (talk) 19:54, 21 November 2024 (UTC)