Revision as of 18:03, 23 July 2016 editDavid Tornheim (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Rollbackers16,953 edits →Scrubbing of views of scientists that have concerns about GMOs: new section← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 15:28, 17 July 2024 edit undoQwerfjkl (bot) (talk | contribs)Bots, Mass message senders4,013,165 editsm Removed deprecated parameters in {{Talk header}} that are now handled automatically (Task 30)Tag: paws [2.2] | ||
(180 intermediate revisions by 60 users not shown) | |||
Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
{{ |
{{Talk header}} | ||
{{Round in circles}} | |||
{{WikiProjectBannerShell |1= | |||
{{FAQ|collapsed=no}} | |||
{{WikiProject Genetics|class=C|importance=mid|imageneeded=|imagedetails=|unref=}} | |||
{{Old peer review|archive=1}} | |||
{{WikiProject Food and drink|class=B|importance=mid}} | |||
{{WikiProject |
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|collapsed=yes|1= | ||
{{WikiProject |
{{WikiProject Molecular Biology|genetics=yes|genetics-importance=mid|imageneeded=|imagedetails=|unref=}} | ||
{{WikiProject Food and drink|importance=mid}} | |||
{{WikiProject Economics|importance=low}} | |||
{{WikiProject Agriculture|importance=Mid}} | |||
{{WikiProject Health and fitness|importance=Low}} | |||
{{WikiProject Environment|importance=Mid}} | |||
{{WikiProject Business|importance=Low}} | |||
{{WikiProject Law|importance=Low}} | |||
}} | }} | ||
{{GMORFC notice}} | {{GMORFC notice}} | ||
{{Canvass warning|short=yes}} | |||
{{oldpeerreview|archive=1}} | |||
{{notaforum}} | |||
{{Round in circles}} | |||
{{Template:Recruiting}} | |||
{{User:MiszaBot/config | {{User:MiszaBot/config | ||
|archiveheader = {{aan}} | |archiveheader = {{aan}} | ||
|maxarchivesize = 100K | |maxarchivesize = 100K | ||
|counter = |
|counter = 12 | ||
|minthreadsleft = 4 | |minthreadsleft = 4 | ||
|minthreadstoarchive = 1 | |minthreadstoarchive = 1 | ||
Line 21: | Line 25: | ||
}} | }} | ||
{{Archives |auto= short|search= yes |index= /Archive index |bot=Lowercase sigmabot III |age= 21 |collapsible=yes}} | |||
{{FAQ|collapsed=no}} | |||
{{Auto archiving notice |bot=MiszaBot I |age=666 |units=days }} | |||
{{Archives |auto= short|search= yes |index= /Archive index |bot= MiszaBot III |age=666 |collapsible=yes}} | |||
== RfC of interest == | |||
Editors here might find this RfC of interest too, ]. | |||
== Protective effects == | |||
This was recently inserted that has at least in part failed to gain consensus. Some conversation has already occurred outside this article talk page. The problem with {{tq|but transgenic soybeans has protective effect to a lesser percentage (64%-101% for conventional and 23%-33% for transgenic diets)}} is that it is ]. We do not engage in comparisons of numbers. We let sources do that for us, especially when you need a ] in scientific topics to compare percentages. If the percentages actually were different (or a difference worth noting) Domingo cited with the content would have said so. | |||
Instead, Domingo clearly states, {{tq| It was found that transgenic soybeans were non-mutagenic, having also protective effects against DNA damage similar to those of conventional soybeans (64%–101% for conventional and 23%–33% for transgenic diets).}} Until another secondary source comes along saying they are substantially different, we cannot engage in further editorializing of the statement than to say the protective effects were similar. I agree that including the actual percentages are undue weight (simply not needed information for our audience) that can be read in the paper itself if it so interests someone beyond the realm of encyclopedic knowledge. Tryptofish's edit was probably the most in line with how Domingo describes the study, so I'm apt to restore that approximate version in the near future barring changes in what's been discussed so far. ] (]) 14:27, 6 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:After all, the primary source is "Conventional (MG-BR46 Conquista) and transgenic (BRS Valiosa RR) soybeans have no mutagenic effects and may protect against induced-DNA damage in vivo." Including the percentages here seems misleading, since without consulting the study there's no way of knowing what they actually mean (effect size, dose response, statistical significance, mutagen, etc.) --] (]) 15:09, 6 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::I agree with both of you that the content needs revision. It seems to me to be trying too hard to make a difference out of something that is not really supported by the sources, unless one makes too much out of a primary source, when the secondary source takes a more measured position. At this time, the language on the page is: {{tq|Research in 2012 found that both conventional and transgenic Roundup Ready soybeans (aroA:CP4 gene) were non-mutagenic, and also had protective effects against DNA damage in mice, to a larger extent for conventional than for transgenic soybeans.}} I suggest we change it to: {{tq|Research in 2012 found that both conventional and transgenic Roundup Ready soybeans (aroA:CP4 gene) were non-mutagenic, and also had protective effects against DNA damage in mice.}} --] (]) 21:51, 6 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::The only thing I would remove is the mention of the gene. Domingo specifically references that they are isogenic lines instead, and that's all we really should mention. This basically means the lines are very similar, but you usually need to do some additional work to say it's actually the gene causing an effect instead of something correlated in the overall genetics. Basically, this would fall into the same category as the percentages where it's a detail better left for the citations. ] (]) 23:33, 6 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::::I agree, that's a good point. Perhaps let's wait a day or so, in case the editor who added the content wants to comment, and if not, then we can go ahead and delete those parts. --] (]) 23:50, 6 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:: ''but transgenic soybeans has protective effect to a lesser percentage (64%-101% for conventional and 23%-33% for transgenic diets)'' It is present in (and in text of course). And Domingo gives number, comparison is easy and trivial, 23-33 lesser than 64-101 anyway, it is junior school or kindergarten computation ] (]) 02:18, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::We generally don't take information from primary sources per ]. As I explained in my post above, this is nothing trivial or at a junior school or kindergarten level to make this comparison formally. One needs at a start an understanding of basic science at a college level to deal with the required ] that we are not qualified to do as anonymous editors. At the end of the day, if a secondary source like Domingo says they are similar, that's what we'll report. ] (]) 02:28, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::::Yes, we really need to be guided by what Domingo, as a secondary source, concludes. In other words, let Domingo, not editors here, decide what is and what is not significant. --] (]) 02:33, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::::: Domingo provides numbers. ] (]) 02:50, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::::::As already mentioned above, Domingo does not make a statement that those numbers are statistically or biologically different, so we can't be making the claim that there is a difference. It is debatable whether including the numbers is too ] for our audience here, but the consensus so far has been that they aren't needed. ] (]) 02:59, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:: To '''tronvillain''' from primary article text: "As shown in Fig. 1, the groups that received conventional soybeans had a more evident protective effect (64%–101%) than those that received transgenic ones (23%–34%).The MN test results show a correlation with another in vivo soybean study described by Azevedo et al. (12), where the transgenic soybean was less protective than the conventional one."] (]) 02:46, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::Yes, I know what the primary text says: with exposure to 50 mg cyclophosphamide, there was a decrease in the incidence of ] in the bone marrow of mice compared with the positive control (for diets containing 1, 10, and 20% conventional or transgenic soybeans): 64%, 101%, and 85% for conventional (though 64% and 85% were not significantly different from each other) and 28%, 23%, and 34% for transgenic (not significantly different from each other). It's not apparent that justifies including the ranges without context and describing them as "but to a lesser extent for transgenic soybeans" or "to a more than two times smaller effect" when Domingo describes it as "having also protective effects against DNA damage similar to those of conventional soybeans." And Azevedo et al. didn't even ''find'' a significant difference in MNPCEs. --] (]) 15:14, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::: It is apparent to authors. ] (]) 15:35, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::::The authors aren't editing a Misplaced Pages article. --] (]) 16:21, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:: To '''Tryptofish''' I warned about a distortion of the text already ] (]) 02:46, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:: To '''Kingofaces43''' gene modification is only original notable difference before study, so it is important ] (]) 02:46, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::Please stop making groundless warnings to me. Yes, Domingo provides numbers, but Domingo also says what conclusions he draws from those numbers. If editors were to say "Domingo draws one conclusion, but we are going to draw a different conclusion", then that would violate the core policy of ]. --] (]) 14:31, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::: Domingo gave figures and apparently did not think that it will be read by people who can not compare numbers ] (]) 15:34, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::::But along with those figures, Domingo said: {{tq|having also protective effects against DNA damage similar to those of conventional soybeans}}. He was not saying that people comparing those numbers should conclude that the numbers were not similar. If he thought that they were dissimilar, he would have said so. --] (]) 15:38, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::::: Similar is not same/equal. ] (]) 16:01, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::::::I agree, and that is why I advocate saying {{tq|and also had protective effects against DNA damage in mice}}, and '''not''' {{tq|and also had the same protective effects against DNA damage in mice}}. --] (]) 16:12, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::::::::This does not appear to be a controversy, or directly related to a controversy. As an animal study focused on one crop, I don't think it should be included in this article at all; inclusion gives undue weight. A statement about antimutigenic properties of soy could be relevant to the soy or gmo soy articles, but is too specific to belong here unless there is more coverage.] (]) 22:02, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::Now that you point it out, I think that's a very good point, thanks. It's basically a single study that found no <s>statistically</s> significant differences (per Domingo) between GMO and non-GMO. --] (]) 22:08, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::Actually, the differences seem to have been statistically significant, but as Dialectric says, it's an animal study focused on one crop. And it was described as having a similar protective effect by Domingo (as has repeatedly been pointed out), in a section on soybeans in which essentially every other study found no difference. --] (]) 22:29, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::Yes, right. Thanks for correcting me on that. --] (]) 22:33, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::: "''it's an animal study''" there were only animal studies ever "''essentially every other study''" in fact it was only study which measured protective effects. Other were (from this Domingo review): 1. '''general toxicological''' Qi et al. (2012) Wang et al. (2016) (there were some significant significant differences but being attributed to incidental and biological variability), 2. '''ecological interactions'''Horak et al., 2015 (note, Horak is from Monsanto) and study about Monsanto variety 3. '''not about glyphosat tolerant''' Chukwudebe et al. (2012), He and coworkers (2016),Herman et al. Fast et al. (2015) ] (]) 22:55, 7 July 2016 (UTC)(2011). And this study (Venancio) mentions it correlates with study of Additionaly . ] (]) 23:00, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::::You make a valid point, that the fact that it is an animal study is not decisive. For me, it's more important that it is a single study, and that it does not really illustrate the subject of this page, which is controversies. (As noted above, it would fit better at pages about soybeans or GM soybeans.) Where has there been a controversy about this study? In what way does it resolve a controversy? It seems to me the only way to make an argument to that effect is to infer that the numerical differences in the study actually demonstrate that GM soybeans are less desirable for the human diet than are conventional soybeans. And there are two fatal flaws with that argument. First of all, the one secondary source that picks up on the study, Domingo, concludes that the study does not demonstrate that there is any health-related difference in humans. Secondly, for editors to decide that there actually is such a difference in humans would not only be a logical stretch, but would also seriously violate ]. For me, I find it useful to think of primary scientific sources by remembering that a Misplaced Pages page is not like a school book report. We are not here to report everything that we find in journal articles. We are here to report what is notable by Misplaced Pages's standards. --] (]) 23:20, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
{{od|12}}It looks to me like there is ] (not unanimous consent) to remove the passage. I'd like to leave this discussion open another day or two, but then it should probably be removed. --] (]) 23:40, 8 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:I do not agree it should be taken out. I do agree that the text from Domingo carries more weight as a secondary review than that of the primary study. That Domingo cites the study gives the study more weight than if he had not cited it, so the primary study can be footnoted as {{u|Cathry}} has done. | |||
:I see no problem with adding the raw numbers provided by Domingo. Domingo does take exception to the ] assessment technique in the same paper, even if he is not appear to be relying on this example to form that opinion. Although Domingo did say the protective effects were "similar", the inclusion of the raw numbers suggests they are not necessarily "equivalent", which I assume is why Domingo provided the raw numbers and why Cathry added the sentence. | |||
:I do think this is minor point that weakly calls into question whether the GM soy is "equivalent" to non-GM soy in its antimutagenic and mutagenic behavior. And, therefore, I see justification for including the sentence. --] (]) 00:13, 9 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::Have you carefully considered the comments above, about why the content makes more sense for pages about soybeans or GM soybeans, than here? Where has there been a controversy about this study? In what way does it resolve a controversy? --] (]) 00:18, 9 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::Yes, I read the discussion and do not see why the sentence should be moved to the soybean article. It makes sense regarding substantial equivalence. I have no objection to copying it to the soybean article. I already answered the second two questions in my response above. --] (]) 03:29, 9 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::::I can see how this page should address controversies about substantial equivalence. But in this case, I think it would be much better to, instead, quote Domingo's criticisms of SE. By using the mouse study to serve that purpose, we are engaging in SYNTH. It requires synthesis to go from the fact that numbers for DNA mutations in mice were somewhat different, to saying that these numbers somehow cast doubt on SE. It really is SYNTH for us, as editors, to conclude that those data either raise or resolve any controversy. --] (]) 20:44, 9 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::Remove the section. There is no controversy addressed by the section so it doesn't belong here. ] (]) 20:34, 9 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
== Michael Pollan quotes == | |||
In my opinion, it's OK if the quotes from Pollan reflect his POV, because the quotes are attributed to him. Also, he ''is'' a food writer, not an environmentalist. But I have no objection to adding a bit of language along the lines of "what he says are...". --] (]) 23:56, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:Also, he is a sufficiently prominent and respected expert on food that I think it is appropriate to devote a bit of space to his position in these controversies. --] (]) 23:59, 7 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::Agree. --] (]) 00:08, 8 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:Part of the problem is that each of these are common debunked talking points of various advocacy groups, so we need to be really careful about weight here. In this the edit under my name is at least concise. The edit your your name Tryptofish specifically mentions monocultures, yield, property rights, and research restrictions. Monocultures are not specific to GMOs, intrinsic yield hasn't been much of a promise yet, crop patents in general not specific to GMOs, and Monsanto does not restrict research. I actually agree with using food writer instead of environmentalist. I would suggest reverting everything after the but back to my last edit though to have a more balanced statement where we don't need to address the talking points further from a weight perspective. Basically: {{tq|Food writer ] is not against all genetically modified crops, but expressed concerns about biotechnology corporations holding the intellectual property of the foods we depend on restrictions on scientists studying genetically modified foods.}} ] (]) 00:13, 8 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::My understanding of the recent NAS source is that, in fact, GM yields have not been improved. So I see no reason to leave out what he said about yields. Perhaps there are ways to say things along the lines of "what he says are problems with (monoculture/research restrictions)". I'm not sure of that last point, but I'm open to either doing it that way or leaving those parts out. --] (]) 00:19, 8 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::That's not quite correct, but it's tricky because there's nuance on what yield means (the source I mentioned above goes into it). The selling point so far has really been protecting yield from pests, which is an increase in yield compared to being under pest pressure. It depends on location (I believe NAS covers this a bit), but most countries that currently use GM crops also tend to have used chemical controls previously instead. Typically, both protect yield the same amount or only a slight amount more with GM, but that there is a bigger yield bump is less developed countries. Even Monsanto . | |||
:::Increasing intrinsic yield or the maximum output of a plant under no stress is what most non-scientists actually think of when they hear yield increase, but that's not super feasible with GM approaches (it's a multi-gene trait) and is just something still in the pipeline. NAS is generally referring to this aspect of yield when we're talking about no yield increase, but the argument about yield has actually become something of a strawman by those confounding the two terms. Some mistakenly think NAS's statement means that GM crops failed to deliver on yield when in reality they're just saying GM hasn't been applied to that aspect of yield yet. I don't think we really want to dedicate the space to explaining this here, so that's why I prefer the more concise version in my last edit. I do have some plans to work on agronomy articles soon though, so we could revisit this specific point to tackle yield in the context of GMOs head on at a later date. ] (]) 00:53, 8 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:*Your link from Monsanto was meant to show that Pollan's claims about scientific agreements are mistaken. However, the page confirms that Monsanto <i>has</i> and <i>continues</i> to restrict scientific research with required contracts. Monsanto's page states: | |||
:::The issue of academic research first gained major media attention in February 2009. A comment was posted in the Federal Register from a group of 26 scientists...who study insect-protected GM crops. The comment was sent to the EPA Scientific Advisory Panel (SAP).... The scientists stated that Technology/Stewardship Agreements are a barrier to independent research. The statement reads as follows: | |||
::::Technology/stewardship agreements required for the purchase of genetically modified seed explicitly prohibit research. These agreements inhibit public scientists from pursuing their mandated role on behalf of the public good unless the research is approved by industry. As a result of restricted access, no truly independent research can be legally conducted on many critical questions regarding the technology, its performance, its management implications, IRM, and its interactions with insect biology. Consequently, data flowing to an EPA Scientific Advisory Panel from the public sector is unduly limited. | |||
::The page continues with Monsanto's surprise that researchers that got access to their seed and who they may have helped fund would complain like this. But the further quotes show the agreements are real and continue: | |||
::::"Monsanto has agreements with universities that enable thousands of researchers to conduct research programs with our commercial products." | |||
::::"Years ago, each time a scientist or group of scientists from a university wanted to study Monsanto’s products, both parties would sign a contract specific to that study. The sheer number of such studies for which we provided our seed made that model of contract signing cumbersome for both parties." | |||
::::"As a result, Monsanto introduced the blanket agreement, which allows university scientists to work with Monsanto’s commercial seed products without contacting the company or signing a separate contract. This blanket agreement – the Academic Research License (ARL) – enables academic researchers to do research with commercialized products with as few constraints as possible. ARLs are in place with all major agriculturally-focused US universities – about 100 in total." | |||
::Yes, it is no surprise that their description of the contract sounds completely different than that of those who complained they were overly constricted. We can't judge what "as few constraints as possible" means. Regardless, it is clear these contracts exist and even Monsanto acknowledges that scientific researchers complained about how it restricted them. This page does not disprove Pollan's comment, but just gives a different subjective view of the contracts. Monsanto's "talking points" as you call them. --] (]) 00:48, 8 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::It looks like you're unfamiliar with the research agreement history. The "stewardship agreement" was intended for preventing competing corporations from doing their own research on a product, etc. but that was overly broad and did create some legal gray zone for scientists. For quite awhile now, researchers have been able to do mostly as they please with varieties., and that was even before these articles. Either way, it's straight from the horse's mouth what those agreements pertain to, so we really can't be saying Monsanto is suppressing GMO testing due to NPOV. If I wanted to at my university, I could do some testing on one of Monsanto's varieties (yield, efficacy, etc.) and publish it without Monsanto being able to lift a finger as long as I'm not doing breeding work and trying to make my own variety out of it. The last thing we need to do in terms of this content in question though is make hyperbole that conflicts with reality more prominent. That's why care is needed with statements from Pollan. ] (]) 01:28, 8 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::::We cannot verify statements about the kind of research you can or cannot conduct at an unnamed University. Only an attorney with expertise in the relevant area of ] can. So your statements about what research you believe you can or cannot do under Monsanto's contract is irrelevant. | |||
::::I do notice we have a section devoted to ]. We should be looking at the law reviews to see what they say about these restrictive end-user agreements, rather than the opinions of non-attorneys. It appears Emily Waltz who you cited is not an attorney . Michael Pollun probably is not an attorney either. --] (]) 02:21, 8 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::::No, we are not limited to attorney's "with expertise in the relevant area of ]". We are only restricted to using reliable sources, and we have two very reliable sources on the topic at hand, | |||
:::::* {{Cite journal| last1=Waltz| first1=E.| doi=10.1038/nbt1009-880| title=Under wraps| journal=] | volume=27| issue=10| pages=880-882| year=2009| publisher=]| url=http://www.emilywaltz.com/Biotech_crop_research_restrictions_Oct_2009.pdf}} | |||
:::::* {{Cite journal| last1=Waltz| first1=E.| doi=10.1038/nbt1010-996c| title=Monsanto relaxes restrictions on sharing seeds for research| journal=] | volume=28| issue=10| page=996| year=2010| publisher=]| url=http://www.emilywaltz.com/News_briefs_10_Oct_Monsanto.pdf}} | |||
:::::Both of them are published in ]; A journal from a highly respected publisher that easily meets our ] requirements. Claiming that we should be looking for articles in "law reviews" (very few of which are peer-reviewed) for opinions on this topic{{mdash}}while ignoring high quality sources{{mdash}}has no basis in policy. If we are going to cover "restrictive end-user agreements" then we will need sources that confirm their continued existence as a source of actual controversy. {{mdash}}] (]) 03:40, 8 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::::::The Waltz article you link includes a clear indication that significant restrictions remain: Quote "Studies outside of agronomic research, such as breeding, reverse engineering or characterizing the genetic composition of the crop, require separate contracts with the company." Health research also appears to be outside the scope of the 'agronomic'.] (]) 06:42, 8 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::::::I don't see any indication that the remaining restrictions are "significant", or that health research is restricted. Are there any reliable sources that we could use to support such information? {{mdash}}] (]) 04:17, 9 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
== FAQ update == | |||
I've made an attempt at updating the FAQ, which hasn't been changed since before the second RfC. Please feel free to edit further - the description of the second RfC is my interpretation, although I think a reasonable one. I think the most important point is to make it clear that "no consensus" refers to the RfC result and not to the scientific consensus. ] <i style="font-size:11px">(])</i> 00:59, 9 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
== citation redundancy == | |||
From inclusion/replacement of the RfC language of ] ( ) all the refs appear twice. Specifically 15-34 are identical to 137-156. Unfortunately, it appears none of the references were named. The only way I know to get out the redundancy is to give names to all 20 references and then refer back to them in the second ]. That is going to be a lot of work to do by hand, requiring 20 ref names to be made and 20 changes to the second instantiation. Are there any tools to simplify the task? --] (]) 11:08, 11 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
Same problem here: ]. --] (]) 11:28, 11 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:{{ping|Boghog}} Did you see my note above? I wonder if there is an automated way to deal with this kind of redundancy. I posted the question to {{u|Wikid77}} here: ]. I collected some data about the existing references to the article just prior to your edits. Thanks for your interest in this problem! --] (]) 21:08, 16 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:: I did see your note above, but not the note on Wikid77 page. I don't have any automated way of handling this. I thought Citation Bot did this, but apparently no longer. ] (]) 21:11, 16 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::Thanks for your help on that. I was about to start, but was curious also to see if any of the citations already existed, so I made that list and decided to ask Wikid77 before moving forward. Can you document what you have done here, so if you don't finish I (and others) will know where to pick up? Once this article is done, we can just replace the text into the GMO food article, so we only have to do it once. (unless any of the existing references in either article conflict. That's why I made a list.) I can do the same thing for GMO food. --] (]) 21:17, 16 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::There may be a conflict with BMA for example. --] (]) 21:18, 16 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::::{{ping|Boghog}} Here are the ref names to be careful about for conflicts, since the names already exist: | |||
::::*AAAS | |||
::::*BMA | |||
::::*domingo | |||
::::*EC | |||
:::::*EC1 | |||
:::::*EC2 | |||
::::*EFSA | |||
:::::*EFSA2007 review of Seralini 2007 | |||
:::::*EFSA2007 Statistical Review of Seralini2007 | |||
:::::*EFSA-Cisgenic | |||
::::*Lynch2001 | |||
::::*Marris | |||
::::*Pew | |||
::::--] (]) 21:35, 16 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
==Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment== | |||
I think all the duplicated citations are now consolidated. It would have been somewhat less work if the ref tags were added before the the citations were duplicated. Also a several of the citations were extremely long which makes the raw wiki text difficult to read and overwhelms the paragraphs in which they are inserted. I have taken the liberty of segregating these refs using ]. ] (]) 00:50, 17 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
] This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available ]. Student editor(s): ]. | |||
:{{Ping|Boghog}} You accidentally clipped out a sentence from the mandatory RfC language. --] (]) 01:03, 17 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::Sorry. I would fix it if I new what sentence it was that I clipped out. Some of the paragraphs in this article are so long that they are difficult to edit and diffs don't work properly. ] (]) 01:20, 17 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::It's the sentence beginning with "Nonetheless...", about public opinion. I think you put the last cite from that sentence in with the cites of the sentence before it. --] (]) 01:27, 17 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::Here is what that paragraph should look like, with the sentence restored: | |||
{{quote frame|1=The safety assessment of genetically engineered food products by regulatory bodies starts with an evaluation of whether or not the food is substantially equivalent to non-genetically engineered counterparts that are already deemed fit for human consumption. No reports of ill effects have been documented in the human population from genetically modified food. There is a scientific consensus that currently available food derived from GM crops poses no greater risk to human health than conventional food, but that each GM food needs to be tested on a case-by-case basis before introduction. Nonetheless, members of the public are much less likely than scientists to perceive GM foods as safe. The legal and regulatory status of GM foods varies by country, with some nations banning or restricting them, and others permitting them with widely differing degrees of regulation.}} | |||
:::--] (]) 01:30, 17 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::::Thanks for pointing out my mistake. I accidentally moved the sentence to the reference section. I fixed it in this . ] (]) 01:49, 17 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::::{{Ping|Boghog}} I hate to tell you this, but although the text is now correct, the references are still wrong. If you look at the lead of ], and look at the cites that are numbered, there, as 15, 16, and 17, and as 18, 19, 20, and 21, you need to make the cites here be like the ones at the "crops" page. --] (]) 01:59, 17 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::::: {{Ping| Tryptofish}} OK, I think I fixed the problem in this . Some of the citations are extremely long making them hard to figure out when they end which makes editing error prone. This is a strong argument that we need to move at least the long citations to list defined references. ] (]) 08:57, 17 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::::::Boghog, thank you ''very'' much! I checked it very carefully, and it looks perfect to me. Indeed, the citations are quite a morass, as I well know, and I recognize how difficult it is to edit them. Thank you for your incredibly helpful work throughout this article. --] (]) 20:12, 17 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:Thanks again. I did not know about ] or I would have used that. That certainly has the potential to makes things like this cleaner! Are you doing it with the GMO food article too? Or you want us to do that?--] (]) 01:23, 17 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:: Not everyone likes ] and we should get consensus before segregating all the references. I just segregated a few of the largest citations which I think is pretty uncontroversial. If there is consensus, I can do this for all the citations in ] with a script. But not tonight. I am tired and need sleep. ] (]) 01:57, 17 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
{{small|Above undated message substituted from ] by ] (]) 22:12, 16 January 2022 (UTC)}} | |||
== POV change == | |||
== POW notability == | |||
{{ping|KoA}} The POW has been destined to head the CoE since 14 November 1948. (Thanks. I wouldn't have learned that if not for your little quip there.) A quick trip to the page would have told you that his religious whims are constantly widely debated. "Defender of Faiths" doesn't mean that he's Jewish or anything like that of course, a quick rundown on him or his ancestry would suggest not, but he has obviously dialoged with various other peoples. Furthermore, he has had ]. | |||
Your attempt to throw {{tq|FRINGE}} around: ] exists. I was unaware. It is not linked anywhere in this article {{endash}} it certainly should be. Something that should be there or here is: "a new form of slavery" by a Cardinal and one of the most important advisors to the current Pope. Certainly the Catholic Church is also in the mix here and has a variety of opinions on what should be legal and not, what we should be allowed to eat, buy, do with our money, and not. ] (]) 27 December 2021 (UTC) | |||
With by {{u|Kingofaces43}} there is strong POV change to the article. Please do not make changes like this to the lede without first gaining consensus. --] (]) 23:00, 16 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:As directly stated in my edit summary, the text was completely redundant with the newly revised scientific consensus language and should be a relatively uncontroversial edit at this point. Referring to it as "POV" is highly improper. ] (]) 23:11, 16 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::No. The paragraph talks about the views of medical organizations. That is <i>not</i> covered in the paragraph that follows. Without the paragraph the lede gives the misleading impression that only the confused ignorant public calls for more regulation, when the facts and RS show otherwise, which is why that language has been in the article for some time. --] (]) 23:17, 16 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::Additionally, this sentence: | |||
:::Although labeling of ] (GMO) products in the marketplace is required in many countries, it is not required in the United States or Canada and no distinction between marketed GMO and non-GMO foods is recognized by the U.S. ]. | |||
::is in fact very controversial and hence makes sense to be in the lede of the controversy article. It is covered in this high quality RS: Emily Marden's<ref name=Marden>Emily Marden, 44 B.C.L. Rev. 733 (2003).</ref> and Rebecca Bratspies'<ref name=Bratspies>{{cite journal|last1=Bratspies|first1=Rebecca M.|title=Some Thoughts on the American Approach to Regulating Genetically Modified Organisms|journal=Kansas Journal of Law and Public Policy|date=2007|volume=16|issue=3|pages=101-131|url=http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1017832}}</ref> work on this is exceptional. See also with more RS. I have provided RS on this numerous times. --] (]) 23:20, 16 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
{{reflist}} | |||
:::We included the views of medical organizations in the scientific consensus RfC language already. The sources don't really matter here. What we're doing in a lede is summarizing the article or at least the concepts we do have somewhat summarized already. Pointing out sources doesn't matter. The totality of views of medical organizations are covered in the scientific consensus language already, that makes mentioning more medical organizations redundant and undue weight for a lede. Generally, the body of the article is where you would flesh out details like that. ] (]) 23:38, 16 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::I was similarly unaware of the existence of ]. I've added it to the 'see also' section. With regard to content some editors view as 'Fringe' - if you have 2+ independent reliable sources covering a given statement / view, believe it is notable, and face 'fringe' objections, opening a ] can help to bring in outside opinions on whether the content should be included.] (]) 01:13, 28 December 2021 (UTC) | |||
I'd like to make three points: | |||
:Invasive Spices, this is about a basic edit from , so please watch the tone and slow down. Either way, the Prince Charles quote is from 1998 and not particularly due, even for a ] viewpoint. If there are areas where sources have dedicated some significant time to looking at fringe views associated with religion in this subject, that would be something to discuss, but none of these sources listed are doing that. It's definitely a subject where you'd want review-level sources pointing out what the major issues actually are vs. one-off quotes, blogs, etc. ] (]) 01:50, 28 December 2021 (UTC) | |||
#Oh, shit! | |||
::Hard to see how this is a reply to what I said, on ''GM & religion'', and not just banging the same drum over and over. There is nothing wrong with my tone and hitting out because I attempted to discuss here on Talk: is a ''very'' interesting choice. Overall you're simply banging the same drum. As it stands I will wait for some time, gloss ] as a new section here, and add the same text there in stead of here along with the Cardinal's statements. If you want to revert again, against relevant, cited text, from some of the most prominent people in the world I cannot stop you. ] (]) 28 December 2021 (UTC) | |||
#Please let me suggest that editors propose changes of this nature in talk before making edits to the page. | |||
:The position of Supreme Governor of the Church of England is mostly ceremonial. None of the "Religious views on genetically modified foods" are actually religious views. Charles' views on GMO are no different from his views on other intensive farming methods and are based on his concerns for the environment. Otherwise, objections to GMO among some religious leaders has been based on its effects on farmers. ] (]) 03:20, 28 December 2021 (UTC) | |||
#It's probably OK to include a bit of additional information about controversies in the lead here, in addition to the RfC language, because this is a page about controversies. Instead of having an argument about it, I suggest that editors consider whether anything is redundant with the RfC language, and then consider reorganizing the lead. I would probably leave the first paragraph as it is, move the paragraph about safety assessment and the RfC language up to the second paragraph, and then reorganize the remaining material. I particularly think the last sentence, all by itself, looks lonely. It might be better to start with information about things like labeling and regulation, and then have the concerns, and not necessarily separate medical groups out from more general concerns in the population, but rather present them together. --] (]) 23:46, 16 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::{{tq|ceremonial}} Yes but are his statements on this subject noted? Certainly. More so than his mother. As for pertinence ''this quote'' from ''this'' person is certainly relevant. If we have quotes from others whose position is relevant but their statements are not necessarily on that subject, I don't know. That would be something to debate. In the case of the Cardinal I quoted above it was part of an interview on his beliefs, with a newspaper owned by his employer, so I do think ''that example'' is also appropriate. ] (]) 28 December 2021 (UTC) | |||
:::I was actually thinking about how to do a slight reorganization outside of the first paragraph too, which I was actually planning to bring up in the talk section I had edit conflicted here discussing my original change and further restructuring. I more or less agree with your general framework, but we'd eventually want to summarize the article sections. Probably best to stick with the current content though before adding anymore. As an FYI, it looks like the RfC language is now split up into two paragraphs, but I can't touch that today. ] (]) 00:03, 17 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::: |
:::In that case everything that Charles, William and George said would be notable because they will have a ceremonial role as heads of the Anglican Church. Note also that they are heirs to the thrones of 15 countries and Charles is set to become head of the Commonwealth. Whether or not anything they say is relevant depends on its coverage in realtion to coverage of the topic. ] (]) 21:53, 28 December 2021 (UTC) | ||
:::::Oh I'm indeed going slow (and a second minor copy edit that was edit conflicted was going to have the edit summary "Let's work through any disagreement slowly per ]"). My thoughts on reorganization were going to be started in talk page discussion first if it had been posted, but it looks like we got the ball rolling on that anyways. Now that things have relatively cooled off after the RfC, I'm hoping to be able to work through this lede section slowly piece-by-piece to see what we can tighten up. ] (]) 00:19, 17 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::::::Sorry for the accidental line breaks (I think these are all fixed) and for the edit conflicts. I am finished editing for today. ] (]) 00:53, 17 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::::::No worries, I was referring to David Tornheim's revert that resulting my edit conflict above. Your edits didn't conflict while I was editing. The line break was a minor thing, but I just wanted to make sure no one got into trouble over that since that part is under DS. That ref improvements looks good. ] (]) 01:01, 17 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:I agree with in clarifying what the original sentence meant before the RfC language was added. Whether the statement is accurate or the source is the best is another matter. --] (]) 04:47, 17 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::Thanks. I too have some doubts about whether it may be too much of an oversimplification. --] (]) 20:16, 17 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
A section which could see some improvement, or additional information added under the environment section after the "resistant insect pest" subsection, to have a subsection titled "herbicide resistant weeds." This has been proven to be an issue with the usage of herbicides causing weeds to become "super weeds," making them difficult to deal with and the use of herbicide to become counterintuitive. <ref>https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/00027640021956279</ref> | |||
As a general comment, I don't think redundancy is as much of an issue as neutrality here. The effect of the second and third paragraphs, in their current form, is to cast doubt on the consensus language and minimize its importance. For instance, "There is concern among the public about safety" is given a prominent place, and then the subject changes without further comment, with the full context not being given until the middle of paragraph four. A reader who isn't sufficiently careful could easily interpret this structure as directly contradicting itself, or even see only what they want to see, and neither of those should be possible. I think that keeping this type of language in the article (and especially in the lead) would be against the spirit of the RfC. ] <i style="font-size:11px">(])</i> 06:44, 17 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:Obviously so: the effect of such text is to niggle away at the NPOV safety text that has been so painstakingly arrived at. Have removed. ] (]) 07:12, 17 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::Good call. Sources were atrocious. {{mdash}} ] (]) 10:52, 17 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::I agree with all of that too. I like the edit that removed some of that language, and I think that the lead is quite tight now. The one thing that occurs to me to suggest is to switch the order of the second and third paragraphs of the lead. That way, the sentence about public opinion that is in the RfC language would come first, as an introduction to the idea of how controversies have become significant in the general public, and then the paragraph about what those controversies are would come after it. --] (]) 20:16, 17 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
::::I'd be good with moving forward on this. It makes more sense from an introductory perspective starting with general aspects of safety instead, plus it helps with ] with respect to the controversies too. ] (]) 13:17, 20 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
FYI: ]. --] (]) 02:44, 20 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
{{reflist-talk}} | |||
== Citations == | |||
== Public perception == | |||
Came across some interesting primary papers that may be worth chasing down secondary reviews that cite them for later content in the public perception section: | |||
{{ping|Lfstevens}} Hi. Your latest have introduced a number of citation errors. It also appears that you have re-duplicated some citations that I worked hard at removing. I would appreciate if you would recheck your edits and also consolidate the duplicated citations. Thanks. ] (]) 07:49, 19 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
* | |||
:Thanks for noticing. I'll correct. ] (]) 14:14, 19 July 2016 (UTC) Should be better now. Will fix anything else that comes up. ] (]) 15:40, 19 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
* | |||
* | |||
Mostly just leaving these in case I don't get to it later and someone else wants to craft content ] (]) 14:43, 2 June 2023 (UTC) | |||
==Wiki Education assignment: Introduction to Digital Humanities Spring 2024== | |||
== Scrubbing of views of scientists that have concerns about GMOs == | |||
{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Misplaced Pages:Wiki_Ed/Kansas_State_University/Introduction_to_Digital_Humanities_Spring_2024_(Spring) | assignments = ] | start_date = 2024-01-15 | end_date = 2024-05-10 }} | |||
<span class="wikied-assignment" style="font-size:85%;">— Assignment last updated by ] (]) 01:34, 30 March 2024 (UTC)</span> | |||
About . Posted ]. --] (]) 18:02, 23 July 2016 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 15:28, 17 July 2024
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Genetically modified food controversies article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12Auto-archiving period: 30 days |
Discussions on this page often lead to previous arguments being restated. Please read recent comments, look in the archives, and review the FAQ before commenting. |
view · edit Frequently asked questions
To view an explanation to the answer, click the link to the right of the question.
Q1: Is the article biased?
A1: Misplaced Pages’s official neutral point of view policy requires us to treat views on various subjects proportionally to those views' mainstream acceptance in the relevant academic field. Some views about GM foods are not supported by the relevant field (biology), and the article needs to reflect this.
Further information: Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view § Undue weight
Q2: Are GM foods dangerous to human health?
A2: The scientific consensus is that GM foods currently on the market pose no more risk than their conventional counterparts. No reports of ill effects have been documented in the human population from GM food. This conclusion has been reached by multiple independent reliable sources, including major scientific organizations and most regulatory agencies responsible for food safety.
However, it is not possible to make a blanket statement about future GM foods. As a result, GM foods are evaluated on a case-by-case basis, and foods currently on the market have gone through regulatory and testing procedures evaluating whether the products are substantially equivalent to non-GM products. The view that these existing products are dangerous to human health is currently a fringe position in the academic community. The content in this Misplaced Pages article describing the scientific consensus, and the sourcing for it, was reviewed by the Misplaced Pages community in an open request for comment on three separate occasions. The first RfC (July–August 2013) evaluated a previous version of the language, concluding that that the statement and sourcing complied with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines and could be included in our articles. A second RfC about a similar version (May–July 2015) was inconclusive, primarily for procedural reasons, and after considerable discussion ultimately led to a third RfC during June-July 2016. This resulted in the language currently used across Misplaced Pages articles related to genetically modified food. Because of the extent of the disputes leading up to the 2016 RfC, additional changes to this part of the article must follow one of the specific procedures described here. If you have a new proposal, the first step for each of these mechanisms is generally a detailed discussion with other editors at one or more of the relevant talk pages.
If you have a study that you think should be included in the article, please make sure that it is peer-reviewed and has been discussed in medically reliable secondary sources. Otherwise, it is unlikely to have sufficient prominence to be discussed in the article. Note that information may have sufficient prominence for the Genetically modified food controversies article, but not for other GM-related articles, because the controversy article covers social aspects in greater depth. Additionally, statements which represent minority views should be placed in the context of the mainstream view. You are welcome to ask for assistance from more experienced editors on the talk page. For the studies by Pusztai and Séralini, see Pusztai affair and Séralini affair. Q4: I think the article is missing some things, or has some things wrong. Can I change it? A4: Yes. Keep in mind that your points need to be based on documented evidence from the peer-reviewed literature, or other information that meets standards of verifiability, reliability, and no original research. Because of Misplaced Pages’s position as a trusted reference work, evidence for health-related claims must also follow the higher standard of medical reliability. If you do not have such evidence, more experienced editors may be able to help you find it (or confirm that such evidence does not exist). You are welcome to make such queries on the article's talk page, but please keep in mind that the talk page is for discussing improvements to the article, not discussing the topic. There are many forums that welcome general discussions of GM foods, but the article talk page is not such a forum. |
Genetically modified food controversies received a peer review by Misplaced Pages editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
This article is rated C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The Arbitration Committee has authorized discretionary sanctions regarding the language used to summarize the safety and regulation of genetically modified food on this and related articles (including talk pages).
|
There have been attempts to recruit editors of specific viewpoints to this article. If you've come here in response to such recruitment, please review the relevant Misplaced Pages policy on recruitment of editors, as well as the neutral point of view policy. Disputes on Misplaced Pages are resolved by consensus, not by majority vote. |
Archives |
This page has archives. Sections older than 30 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 4 sections are present. |
Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Gabriellaroselobitz95.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 22:12, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
POW notability
@KoA: The POW has been destined to head the CoE since 14 November 1948. (Thanks. I wouldn't have learned that if not for your little quip there.) A quick trip to the page would have told you that his religious whims are constantly widely debated. "Defender of Faiths" doesn't mean that he's Jewish or anything like that of course, a quick rundown on him or his ancestry would suggest not, but he has obviously dialoged with various other peoples. Furthermore, he has had some awfully close experiences with assassination motivated by religion and ethnicity a few decades ago.
Your attempt to throw FRINGE
around: Religious views on genetically modified foods exists. I was unaware. It is not linked anywhere in this article – it certainly should be. Something that should be there or here is: "a new form of slavery" by a Cardinal and one of the most important advisors to the current Pope. Certainly the Catholic Church is also in the mix here and has a variety of opinions on what should be legal and not, what we should be allowed to eat, buy, do with our money, and not. Invasive Spices (talk) 27 December 2021 (UTC)
- I was similarly unaware of the existence of Religious views on genetically modified foods. I've added it to the 'see also' section. With regard to content some editors view as 'Fringe' - if you have 2+ independent reliable sources covering a given statement / view, believe it is notable, and face 'fringe' objections, opening a WP:RFC can help to bring in outside opinions on whether the content should be included.Dialectric (talk) 01:13, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
- Invasive Spices, this is about a basic edit from over 2 months ago, so please watch the tone and slow down. Either way, the Prince Charles quote is from 1998 and not particularly due, even for a WP:FRINGE viewpoint. If there are areas where sources have dedicated some significant time to looking at fringe views associated with religion in this subject, that would be something to discuss, but none of these sources listed are doing that. It's definitely a subject where you'd want review-level sources pointing out what the major issues actually are vs. one-off quotes, blogs, etc. KoA (talk) 01:50, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
- Hard to see how this is a reply to what I said, on GM & religion, and not just banging the same drum over and over. There is nothing wrong with my tone and hitting out because I attempted to discuss here on Talk: is a very interesting choice. Overall you're simply banging the same drum. As it stands I will wait for some time, gloss Religious views on genetically modified foods as a new section here, and add the same text there in stead of here along with the Cardinal's statements. If you want to revert again, against relevant, cited text, from some of the most prominent people in the world I cannot stop you. Invasive Spices (talk) 28 December 2021 (UTC)
- The position of Supreme Governor of the Church of England is mostly ceremonial. None of the "Religious views on genetically modified foods" are actually religious views. Charles' views on GMO are no different from his views on other intensive farming methods and are based on his concerns for the environment. Otherwise, objections to GMO among some religious leaders has been based on its effects on farmers. TFD (talk) 03:20, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
ceremonial
Yes but are his statements on this subject noted? Certainly. More so than his mother. As for pertinence this quote from this person is certainly relevant. If we have quotes from others whose position is relevant but their statements are not necessarily on that subject, I don't know. That would be something to debate. In the case of the Cardinal I quoted above it was part of an interview on his beliefs, with a newspaper owned by his employer, so I do think that example is also appropriate. Invasive Spices (talk) 28 December 2021 (UTC)- In that case everything that Charles, William and George said would be notable because they will have a ceremonial role as heads of the Anglican Church. Note also that they are heirs to the thrones of 15 countries and Charles is set to become head of the Commonwealth. Whether or not anything they say is relevant depends on its coverage in realtion to coverage of the topic. TFD (talk) 21:53, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
A section which could see some improvement, or additional information added under the environment section after the "resistant insect pest" subsection, to have a subsection titled "herbicide resistant weeds." This has been proven to be an issue with the usage of herbicides causing weeds to become "super weeds," making them difficult to deal with and the use of herbicide to become counterintuitive.
References
Public perception
Came across some interesting primary papers that may be worth chasing down secondary reviews that cite them for later content in the public perception section:
- Examining the Gap between Science and Public Opinion about Genetically Modified Food and Global Warming
- Changes in perceived scientific consensus shift beliefs about climate change and GM food safety
- Monetizing disinformation in the attention economy: The case of genetically modified organisms (GMOs)
Mostly just leaving these in case I don't get to it later and someone else wants to craft content KoA (talk) 14:43, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
Wiki Education assignment: Introduction to Digital Humanities Spring 2024
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 15 January 2024 and 10 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Rachaelmk (article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Prokope45 (talk) 01:34, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
Categories:- Old requests for peer review
- C-Class Molecular Biology articles
- Unknown-importance Molecular Biology articles
- C-Class Genetics articles
- Mid-importance Genetics articles
- WikiProject Genetics articles
- All WikiProject Molecular Biology pages
- C-Class Food and drink articles
- Mid-importance Food and drink articles
- WikiProject Food and drink articles
- C-Class Economics articles
- Low-importance Economics articles
- WikiProject Economics articles
- C-Class Agriculture articles
- Mid-importance Agriculture articles
- WikiProject Agriculture articles
- C-Class Health and fitness articles
- Low-importance Health and fitness articles
- WikiProject Health and fitness articles
- C-Class Environment articles
- Mid-importance Environment articles
- C-Class WikiProject Business articles
- Low-importance WikiProject Business articles
- WikiProject Business articles
- C-Class law articles
- Low-importance law articles
- WikiProject Law articles
- Misplaced Pages controversial topics