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| {{Not a forum|merits of Kannada or Marathi culture|small=yes}} | |||
| {{WikiProject Hinduism}} | |||
| {{Article history|action1=PR | |||
| {{WP India|class=|importance=|history=yes}} | |||
| |action1date=22:22, 4 April 2007 | |||
| {{reqmapin|India}} | |||
| |action1link=Misplaced Pages:Peer review/Rashtrakuta Dynasty/archive1 | |||
| {{notaforum|merits of Kannada or Marathi civilisation}} | |||
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| ==Kannada Fanatic== | |||
| |action1oldid=120342318 | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi is a Kannada fanatic with pronounced parochial tendencies. He tries to paint all South Indian dynasties as essentially of Kannada origin. He hides the evidences that go against his theories and highlights those that favour his pet hypotheses. A concerted effort should be made to call his bluff in Misplaced Pages. {{unsigned |202.141.12.194}} | |||
| |maindate= 30 December 2015 | |||
| |action2=FAC | |||
| ==Arguements on Latur== | |||
| |action2date=21:24, 28 April 2007 | |||
| It has got no base , for example first inscription of marathi is found at Shravanbelgola in present day Karnataka.It does not mean that Maharashtra extended till present day Mysore.One must cautiously look at these modern theories based on newly formed states on linguistic criterion. {{unsigned |129.42.208.182}} | |||
| |action2link=Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Rashtrakuta Dynasty | |||
| |action2result=promoted | |||
| |action2oldid=126619310 | |||
| |currentstatus=FA | |||
| Reply: Please dont mix your arguements with those of top historians. Please find a seperate | |||
| }} | |||
| paragraph to put your arguements in (even if you are a historian by profession). | |||
| {{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|vital=yes|1= | |||
| If you are a historian, please declare your credentials also. Misplaced Pages is not a blog site | |||
| {{WikiProject Hinduism|importance=Low}} | |||
| to thrash historical work of others or introduce your arguements in between those of historians. The historical matter obtained from Mr Arthikaje's history matter is copy write protected. | |||
| {{WikiProject India|importance=mid|portal=yes|history=yes|history-importance=high|karnataka=yes|karnataka-importance=high|assess-date=April 2012}} | |||
| From my side this is the arguement I make. Marathi has but one inscriprion upto 10 century. | |||
| {{WikiProject Former countries}} | |||
| Kannada had already reached its golden age in Literature by then. Kannada inscriptions must have been plenty in Maharashtra region during that time. I will try to provide more information on this. This is why historians think many places in Maharashtra have/had | |||
| {{WikiProject Middle Ages|importance=mid}} | |||
| Kannada place names. | |||
| {{WikiProject Military history|Indian=y|Medieval=y|Asian=y|South-Asian=y|b1=no|b2=yes|b3=yes|b4=yes|b5=yes}} | |||
| One more thing, Dont called Kannada "Kannad" unless you dont mind people calling | |||
| }} | |||
| Marathi, "Marath". | |||
| {{contentious topics/page restriction talk notice|protection=semi|ipa}} | |||
| Please provide reference for "satara inscription of 6th century" if you can. | |||
| {{old move|date1=27 February 2024|name1=Rashtrakuta dynasty|destination1=Rashtrakuta Empire|result1=moved|link1=Special:Permalink/1211144042#Requested move 27 February 2024|date2=30 April 2024|from2=Rashtrakuta Empire|destination2=Rashtrakutas|result2=moved|link2=Special:Permalink/1223916008#Requested move 30 April 2024}} | |||
| {{Archive box|auto=yes|small=yes}} | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| == |
==Citation missing== | ||
| == Origin of Rashtrakutas == | |||
| "It is in Sanskrit and Brahmi script" and confirmed their origin. | |||
| It has been well established in the article that Rashtrakutas were of Kannada Origin. It has also been mentioned that they were of Dravidian Cultivator origin. The chief cultivating caste of Karnataka are the Vokkaligas. Kindly mention the possible Vokkaliga origin. | |||
| This is presumtious. | |||
| Shetty, Sadanand Ramakrishna (1994). Banavasi Through the Ages. Banavasi (India): Printwell. p. 121.:“The community of the land tillers or agriculturists was known as vokkaligas. The importance given to the cultivation of land is amply demonstrated by the fact that numerous tanks were dug and irrigational facilities were provided at various places. Some of the Rashtrakuta inscriptions found in the Banavasimandala carry the depiction of a plough at the top. There is a view that the Rashtrakutas were originally prosperous cultivators, who later on dominated the political scene. Some of the inscriptions refer to them as Kutumbinah which is interpreted as meaning cultivators.” | |||
| One sanskrit inscription does not confirm that early Rashtrakutas spoke sanskrit. Inscriptions were made out in the predominant language of the place where they were installed.It only | |||
| https://books.google.co.in/books?id=cUhuAAAAMAAJ&dq=vokkaliga+rashtrakuta&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=vokkaliga+rashtrakuta ] (]) 04:56, 14 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
| proves that the people of this village or the people for whom this inscription was intended | |||
| ::That the early Rashtrakutas may have been Kannadigas is already emphasized in the article. The fact that the Rashtrakutas of Manyakheta were surely of Kannada origin has been mentioned again. No need to further give a caste designation as Vokkaligas. Makes no sense.] (]) 13:58, 14 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
| spoke sanskrit. | |||
| Castes like Telugu Reddy, Marathi Marathas are mentioned in the article despite historians like Altekar proving the contrary (Even this is mentioned in the origin of Rahstrkutas article, but you’ve let Reddy and Maratha stay). Even obscure origin theories from Punjab are mentioned. | |||
| It’s only fair that the Chief Cultivating Kannada caste, the Vokkaligas are mentioned. | |||
| Kannad origin isn’t sufficient as that is not an ethnic identity like caste. Kindly allow the addition of Vokkaligas for fairness and neutrality. ] (]) 14:07, 14 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
| ::Of the various books that I have read up on Rashtrakutas, this must be the only one that gives a caste connotation to Kannadiga origin. Better to keep it general.] (]) 12:30, 15 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
| Alright sir, thank you for maintaining the top knotch article. ] (]) 14:18, 15 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
| Citation missing for the following sentence under ] section: | |||
| “Other famous rock-cut temples in the Maharashtra region are the Dhumer Lena and Dashvatara cave temples in Ellora (famous for its sculptures of Vishnu and Shivaleela) and the Jogeshvari temple near Mumbai.” | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| Were these temples built by Rashtrakutas too? Clarity needed. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 14:06, 4 February 2022 (UTC)</small> | |||
| ==Origin== | |||
| I am replying to this edit , "Their oldest inscription is found in Satara district of Maharashtra beloning to 6th century.In it Rashtrakuta king Avidheya has donated a village to learned brahmins.It is in Sanskrit and Brahmi script.It confirmed their origin". | |||
| == Citations not clear == | |||
| I think the above line is a bit of a "mute point". It is well known that the Rashtrakutas | |||
| were suboridinates of the Chalukyas and used to rule small parts of central India before coming into their own in 753AD in Karnataka. Just as Dandidurga's ancestors can be traced back to king Avidheya of 6th century in Satara, I am sure Avidheyas ancestors cane be traced back to some other location in India or even outside India, functioning as small cheiftens from that locaton. Does that mean the Rashtrakuta empire origin is in some location other than Satara. Over the last thousands of years, (just as they do now in search if information technology jobs) people have constantly migrated south. If one starts tracing family trees back there is no end to it. All this only confirms that each one of us, whether we are | |||
| Kannadigas' or Marathis' or Telugus' all have a common origin as people of the deccan. | |||
| There are no proper links for editors to check validity of the claims in this article for example, in society section it is extensively given that sati practice was prevalent but no link is given for readers to cross check the fact. The para even goes as far as saying that there are examples of members of royal family self immolating but does not give any proof of it. Should this be allowed? ] (]) 03:17, 10 September 2022 (UTC) | |||
| Shivaji himself is said to have been from the Hoysal Marathe clan. The Hoysalas are a kingdom that ruled karnataka (1000-1340AD) with origins in western ghats of Karnataka. Does this mean the Maratha Empire has its origin in Karnataka? | |||
| == Exaggeration == | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| "At their peak the Rashtrakutas of Manyakheta ruled a vast empire stretching from the Ganges River and Yamuna River doab in the north to Kanyakumari in the south" | |||
| == Please give proofs Otherwise this appears as some attempt to promote and glorify kannada by distorting facts == | |||
| This statement is not backed with evidence. ] (]) 00:07, 6 November 2022 (UTC) | |||
| == Requested move 27 February 2024 == | |||
| Rashtrakuta's gave patronage to Sanskrit, Prakrit as well as Kannada. This explains why Kannada inscriptions can be found along with Sanskrit and other. | |||
| <div class="boilerplate mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top --> | |||
| Some say Shivaji was from Rajput caln of Sisodia and now Kannadigas say Shivaji is from Hoysala caln. Everyone knows Shivaji as Maratha with Maratha army. | |||
| :''The following is a closed discussion of a ]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a ] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.'' | |||
| The result of the move request was: '''moved.''' <small>(])</small> ] (]) 17:12, 5 March 2024 (UTC) | |||
| As far as historian are concerned they only say these inscriptions are found, from which one can not derive funny logic of king being poet. Or one of the Poem in kingdom as the native language of king. | |||
| ---- | |||
| ] → {{no redirect|Rashtrakuta Empire}} – The Rashtrakutas were an empire than a dynasty, the empire consisted of many regions, states and vassals or feudatories of different ethno-linguistical identity and their region, in modern India the states which were part of the Rashtrakuta extension were Karnataka, Maharashtra, Gujarat, Andhra Pradesh, Telangana, Tamil Nadu, Goa, Madhya Pradesh and their influence over Northern India & Sri Lanka, here is an Historian based work which shows the map of Rashtrakutas in his work which is mainly written about Rashtrakutas <ref>{{cite book|title=Rashtrakutas and their times |url=https://archive.org/details/dli.csl.8147/mode/1up}}</ref> ] (]) 14:25, 27 February 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ==Inscriptions related== | |||
| {{reflist-talk}} | |||
| I am writing this with reference to an edit put in. It goes like this | |||
| * '''Support''' This article is clearly about the state and not the rulers. ] (]) 14:51, 27 February 2024 (UTC) | |||
| " but they themselves called later chalukyas of Vengi as'Kannad sena'". There is also mention of Marathi inscription discovered in Shravanabelagola near Mysore. Here are my comments. | |||
| * '''Support''' per CatTheMeow and Arnav Bhate. The article is written in the context of an empire/state. A different article should be made or expanded upon to talk about the dynasty themselves. ] (]) 18:30, 27 February 2024 (UTC) | |||
| 1. Please provide evidence or atleast a record by a historian of repute to corroborate this statement. | |||
| :<small>Note: ] has been notified of this discussion. ] (]) 15:54, 27 February 2024 (UTC)</small> | |||
| 2. first of all, the above line means little, as the the later Chalukyas are from Kalyana, not Vengi. The Vengi's were the Eastern Chalukyas and were essentially Kannada stock too. However after 850AD, showed increased inclination towards Telugu. | |||
| :<small>Note: ] has been notified of this discussion. ] (]) 15:54, 27 February 2024 (UTC)</small> | |||
| 3. The Rashtrakutas are a proven Kannada Empire beyond doubt. The people of the deccan | |||
| <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from ] --> | |||
| largely spoke Kannada between 7th-12th Century AD. | |||
| </div><div style="clear:both;" class=></div> | |||
| 4. The Marathi Inscription discovered near Mysore is from 981AD which is after the fall | |||
| == Requested move 30 April 2024 == | |||
| of Rashtrakutas, by which time, the Later Chalukyas of Kalyana had asserted supremacy | |||
| over the deccan. By this time, Kannada langauge had already entered its golden age, being | |||
| atleast 1500 years older then Marathi. | |||
| 5. One Marathi inscription does not indicate large population. Also, this is probably | |||
| the first Marathi inscription discovered indicating the language may have come from Karnataka. | |||
| As such, early Marathi was made up of Prakrit and large number of loan words from Kannada. | |||
| This was the language popularised by the Yadavas of Devgiri (~1150-1330AD). Later during the rule of Marathas, many Kannada words were removed and replaced with indo-aryan words. | |||
| <div class="boilerplate mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top --> | |||
| == Rashtrakuta being kannada ??!! == | |||
| :''The following is a closed discussion of a ]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a ] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.'' | |||
| The result of the move request was: '''moved.''' <small>(])</small> ] (]) 15:09, 19 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
| I completely disagree with whosoever claims that 'the Rashtrakutas were a kannada empire'. There is no proven record that corroborates the above assertion. I am an avid reader of history and i have not come across a single document that proves with certainty that the rashtrakutas were of kannada origin. | |||
| ---- | |||
| ] → {{no redirect|Rashtrakutas}} – Ngram graph suggests that the term Rashtrakutas have been used throughout commonly, and much ] refers it in similar way. In JSTOR, 320 results for "Rashtrakutas" 288 results for "Rashtrakuta dynasty" , and 17 results for "Rashtrakuta Empire" . The pattern repeats in most of the ] ]</nowiki></sup></span>]] 18:54, 30 April 2024 (UTC) <small>— '''''Relisting.''''' ] (]) 20:45, 8 May 2024 (UTC)</small> | |||
| == Rahstrakutas were of Kannada origin == | |||
| *'''comment''': The nominator of Requested move 27 February 2024 is banned for their disruptive behaviour to other editors; and their PoV pushing (for Kannada) actions aganist articles which didn't satisfy their PoV.--]</nowiki></sup></span>]] 18:57, 30 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| If you are an avid reader, can you disprove that all the Kannada literature and Inscriptions | |||
| *:'''Comment:''' While the nominator may have been banned, the argument seems to be still valid. Is the focus of the article the dynasty (a line of kings) or the kingdom? Currently, it seems to be the latter. ] <sup> ] </sup> 12:01, 1 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
| attributed to Rashtrakuta kings? | |||
| *::Whether it's referred to as a "Kingdom," "State," or a "Dynasty," we cannot label an entity as an "Empire" unless reliable sources and historians do so. The discussion on the 27th is purely based on ], lacking evidence or valid statements. While there were indeed many branches of the Rashtrakutas, the parent article should be the one that is more ] than the minor branches. Ngram and keyword searches can determine which term is more suitable for ] and which is not. ]</nowiki></sup></span>]] 13:46, 1 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Try to find a book called | |||
| *:::Oppose, @] I will not say it again again that you cannot destroy the historicity of a Power just because of Ngram. | |||
| ''The dynasties of the Kanarese districts of the Bombay Presidency from the earliest historical times to the Musalman conquest of A.D. 1318'' (Unknown Binding) | |||
| *:::See the Wp: RS for the Name Rastrakuta Empire | |||
| by John Faithful Fleet . | |||
| *:::History of Medival India from 800-1700 by Satish Chandra. Page no 12"Rastrakuta Empire which dominated deccan and also controlled territories in north and South India" | |||
| OR the book '' The Rashtrakutas and their Times'' by Dr.Altekar | |||
| *:::History and Culture of Indian People by R.C Majumdar Volume 4. Page no 4 "The Ganga king Srfpurusha Muttarasa was defeated, his crownprince ^ivamara was taken prisoner, and the whole of Gangavatjl was annexed to the Rashtrakuta empire" | |||
| This should make you a more avid reader about deccan history | |||
| *:::Rastrakutas and their times by As Atelkar"Boundaries of the Rashtrakuta empire did not alter as a result of his successes against Vatsaraja and Dharmapala." ] (]) 11:23, 9 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Support''' either Rashtrakutas or Rashtrakuta dynasty, per English-language common name in reliable sources. ] (]) 11:49, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Support''': Same as @]. ] 14:38, 13 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| *:@] I thing you should check ].The Rastrakutas were an Empire, source of it is given below as you can check them. You can destroy a Imperial Historicity of a power just because Ngram and other things. We should go with what ]. ] (]) 16:38, 13 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Support''' Meaningful. ] (]) 17:02, 14 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Oppose''' That's not how we evaluate Ngram hits. It's obvious that '''Rashtrakutas''' would be more prevalent in sources as it refers to the nation and its people rather than an empire, a state or a kingdom. Consequently "Marathas", "Ghaznavids" and "Seljuks" are more prevalent than "Maratha Empire" , Ghaznavid Empire" and "Seljuk Empire" respectively, but that doesn't mean we should start renaming them. (Because it refers to common ethnic, linguistic and regional people as a whole not an empire, a state or a kingdom). Moreover we find scholars like and entitling '''Rashtrakuta Empire'''. Hence I don't see how nom's and above arguments of @] and @] are valid at all.] (]) 03:51, 15 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Rashtrakuta Territories == | |||
| <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from ] --> | |||
| </div><div style="clear:both;" class=></div> | |||
| == List == | |||
| I am not sure how to create a map that shows Rashtrakuta Territories. | |||
| Can someone please do this. | |||
| I think we are missing a list of Manyakheta Rashtrakuta emperors here. ] (]) 08:08, 12 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| :Done! - ] 23:10, 30 April 2006 (UTC) | |||
| == Rashtrakuta map == | |||
| Rashtrakuta map here shows their crux empire, Not the entire extent which had spread upto the | |||
| Himalayas. During the time of Dhruva itself, Rajasthan, The Gangetic plains, Vengi and Gangavadi were all part of their empire. This was consolidated during | |||
| the rule of Govinda III and Amoghavarsha I. In fact Amoghavarsha I is called "Ashoka of the South". Please alter the map to depict these areas also, or show me how to do it in the discussion page. | |||
| Dinesh | |||
| == Shameless, mindless vandalism == | |||
| Some shameless person who does not identify himself has vandalised large scale historically proven sections of this page and called me a Kannada fanatic. He has discarded months worth of studies by me from various sources including Dr. S.U. Kamat (Consice history of Karnataka, 2001), Dr. Nilakhanta Shastry (History of South India, 1955) just to name a few (whose books I have with me). A quick look at the vandalism shows who the fanatic is. Every mention of "Kannada" and "dravidian" has been eliminated and most info on Karnataka too. Goes to show who the fanatic is. Such uneducated users who cant handle the truth and themselves have misguided feelings about other languages should be banned from further usage of wikipedia. Please revert back to the version prior to this act of vandalism. | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| == ORIGIN OF RASHTRAKUTAS OR CHALUKYAS== | |||
| Please let me know that is there any family with title of chalukya or Rashtrakuta other than Marathas .Among marathas these same families even today are found in lesser but definitely in a respectable position.e.g Hon MLA Shivajirao Chalukya from Latur.Shri Sadguru Gagagngiri maharaji who happens from satara/kolhapur district.Please remember that Rashtrakutas and Chalukyas both originated on the borders of modern day Maharashtra and Karnataka.So to classify them as modern day marathi or Kannada fanatic is no fun.Rather I can say Vijayangar empire and Maratha empire inherited this legacy.Both empire defended mother India beyond doubt.So let us take a mutual stand to respect each other keeping aside political tone.So that we can contribute more to this site. | |||
| kasar] 16:49, 18 August 2006 (UTC) | |||
| '''Reply''': Dear Mr Kasar, lets not get into present day surnames and try linkages as people tend to migrate around and have been doing do for eons. I can do some reaserach as bring out surnames in Karnataka that are linked to chalukyas and Rashtrakutas too. As another example, there are many Marathis with last name "Kadam". Do you suggest to say that the Kadambas of Banavasi (who ruled from Shimoga and were ancestors of Kadams) were Maharashtrian? though its been proven that the Kadambas were the first kingdom to give Kannada official language status. Historians have their own way of doing research. They go by inscriptions, numismatics (coins), epigraphs and literature, not by emotions. Irrespective of whether a chalukya king was born in Latur or Badami, the common knowledge is that Kannada was the local prakrit at that time over not just Karnataka but also expanses of Maharashtra. Please refer to books line "Early India from the origins to 1300AD " by Dr. Romila Thapar (Penguin books, Rs. 415/-) and the other books I have mentioned in the reference section. I am assuming you have the habit of reading real history books and not blog sites prepared by Maharashtra Govt. As far as you are concerned, I dont see any contributions from your side apart from deleting research material put in by people like me. If I let you go on with Vandalism, pretty soon you will delete all material on Kannada literature calling it "Kannada Propaganda". Recently some shameless vandal put "needs to be proven, seems like Kannada Propaganda" note on Kannada literature section of Rashtrakuta page. Instead of cowardly vandalism, let the person prove that the Literature was "not written" during Rashtrakuta rule. Can he prrove that Amoghavarsha did not write or contribute to ]. I have already provided the references that says they "were written". Can he prove that the Kalyani Chalukya rule was "not a golden era of Kannada literature". Can he prove that the Badami chalukyas, Rashtrakutas and later the Kalyani Chalukyas "did not issue Kannada coins" in addition to coins with Nagari legends, implying that Kannada was a court language? Can he prove that the architecture of the Rashtrakutas and Kalyani Chalukyas were "not dravidian in style"? I understand the Badami Chalukyas tried both northern and southern styles and mixed them too. Kannada has a proven history of 2000 years and hence found patronage with all kindoms that ruled the deccan, especially from 350AD onwards. I see nothing but prejudice and lack of historical knowledge from the vandal. Because a good fraction of Chalukya/Rashtrakuta inscriptions are in Kannada, because Chalukyas call themselves with the same Gotra as the Kadambas, ruled from present day Karnataka and encouraged Kannada literature is sufficient for historians to call them natives of Karnataka or Kannada country in general. Just because they also wrote inscriptions and literature in Sanskrit does not make them north Indians as Sanskrit was and is still considered the language of clergy/elite in the south also. The very fact you keep harping on the "sanskrit" inscription of a early Rashtrakuta king shows you dont want them to be seen as Kannada people. Looks like while you talk of not being political, thats exactly what you are doing, being political. What you fail to understand is that in ancient times, Sanskrit was often considered the language of clergy (much like today) and the local popular prakrit was whatever it was (in this case Kannada). There is no issue of Kannada fanatism here. There is no evidence of Marathi as even a popular spoken language. We have just put forward veiws of Historians mentioned. If you know the name of a historian who does not agree, put it on the page, give a verifiable reference and call it peace, instead of deleting large chunks of data, just because it does not suit you. | |||
| Untill you give suitable evidence from a well known historian(s), try to refrain from further deletions as they will be reverted. History is not about a compromise between me and you, but about most probable cause and events. | |||
| I realise you have been doing this for many months now, though not frequently and are generally bordering on vandalism. | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| ==reply== | |||
| Thanks for your reply.Please note that I am not vandalising the website.Rather I have mentioned that there is something common glorius history of Maharashtra and Karnataka both.That is why I have praised the role of Vijayanagar empire. | |||
| I do not refuse any research by any scholar including Nilkantha Shastri or Romila Thapar or any one. | |||
| What I have simply asked that there are certain families in maharashtra who are aknowledged as descendent of these dynasties.That is why I asked whether any such families are there? I am sure they will be there. | |||
| In modern times also please see royal dynasty of Tanjore,Guti,Bagalkot,Sondur are marathas.But they have supported the local language. | |||
| --So let us understand there will be chalukyas or Rashtrkutas on both side as the division is modern. | |||
| --Forget the point of difference ,let us contribute to enrich their achievements.OK | |||
| ] 10:38, 21 August 2006 (UTC) | |||
| '''Reply''': Thanks for your cooperation. Because one cannot identify a Kingdom by way of decendents, castes etc., historians generally refrain from getting into such unnecessary details. Whom you call Maratha, others call Nayakas, Kuruba's, Heggadde's, Gounders etc in Karnataka, Golla's, Raju's in A.P and so on. Also these castes as we call it are not really castes but "clans" (Romila Thapar) whose status and importance often changed with changing political circumstances. Hence caste is not a tangible asset from historians. What are tangible are Inscriptions, Literature and language development, architecture and records etc. People have always moved around and will continue to. A vast percentage of Indians today trace their ancestors back to central asia/middle east etc but are Indians today (irrespective of how they came into India and this is true to people in North and to some extent the south). | |||
| "In modern times also please see royal dynasty of Tanjore,Guti,Bagalkot,Sondur are marathas.But they have supported the local language". | |||
| You are right about this. The Senas of Bengal, Karnataka Kshatriyas of Mithila (Bihar) carry the "karnata Gotra", the Vengi Chalukyas of Andhra and ] of ] are from Karnataka origin and later took up local languages in those locations. Such situations are all too familiar in India and thats what makes it interesting. | |||
| I intend to (over the coming months and years) contribute images of inscriptions, coinage, architecute etc from all these great Kingdoms during my future travels in India, irrespective of whether they are Sanskrit or Kannada inscriptions. Sanskrit is as much a south Indian heritage as it is for the north (though it came from the north). During the many centuries when the north was under Muslim rule, it was the south that protected and nurtured Sanskrit culture, taking useful influences into our dravidian languages where necessary, while maintaing our own cultural identity. | |||
| As of today, (today's news in Deccan Herald, Bangalore district edition), historians have unearthed inscriptions in ] having 5th century ] inscriptions on one side and Chalukya/Rashtrakuta inscriptions on the other side. The inscription has been sent for analysis. This shows how connected these kingdoms were by way of lineage, family ties etc. | |||
| Good luck!! | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| == Info box for Rashtrakuta Kings and cleanup] 13:04, 8 September 2006 (UTC) == | |||
| I have created an infobox for the Rashtrakuta Kings of Manyakheta and hyperlinked to pages containing info on each king. All information has been sourced from references provided, carefully rewording it to prevent copywrite violation, as per Misplaced Pages regulations. | |||
| The historians I am refering to are from all parts of India to get a correct overall picture. Prior to my recent edits starting 8/16/06, most of the info in the Rashtrakuta page was correct, just a bit inadequate. I am also cleaning up the main page for Rashtrakutas into which some unsourced infomation had crept in. Please be aware that no material can be deleted as they are sourced for credible sources (historians). Any further arguements can be added as alternate information provided verifiable references are given. | |||
| It will take me about a week to do the full clean up job. Any nice photographs regarding Rashtrakuta architecture is welcome. A long list of Rashtrakuta "Branch" kings has been put in without any reference source. Unfortunately, this info does not even carry the dates when these branch kings ruled making it high unreliable. Untill such a time someone can defend these kingdoms (Jodhpur, Hasthkundi etc) Its better to leave it out. The "Lata" branch is valid info though. It is known that Amoghavarsha I started this branch and Krishna II merged it into the main Kingdom at Manyakheta. A template called "{{Rashtrakuta Branch Kings Infobox}}" has been created which has the long list of kings. Anyone who wants to bring in valuable info for this is welcome. | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| == Possible Vandalism? == | |||
| A concerned wikipedian notified me about this article to check if it has any vandalism,pushing of ].Although I have very liitle knowledge of the topic,by the discussion here and reading the article,it seeems actually,the pushing of ],possible vandalism and distortion of facts is being done.The frequent edits is done by an editor who has a bad record of a fanatic linguist and racist. | |||
| Frequent mentions Karntaka,kannada language signify that this article is being targetted by Kannadi vandalists just like numerous others.Also see the earlier discussions on this page itself.A user is trying associate everything and anything with a certain community unnecessary.Result-a advt like article aimed for glorifying a certain state and community. | |||
| I request the experts and scholars to thoroughly examine this article and find out shortcomings,sermons,vandalism etc and make necessary changes. | |||
| ] 14:44, 9 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| == Read the source material before making accusations] 18:42, 9 September 2006 (UTC) == | |||
| Dear Mr. Mahawiki. Yes you are right. You have no knowledge of this matter. Also, I think I know the concerned wikipedian you mention. The three authors I have referenced from are all reputed authors. One of them is a Padma Bhusan winner from Delhi (Thapar, who refused to accept it) and a Sahitya academy award winner for 1973 (Kamath from Karnataka). The third author (K.A.N Sastri) is from Tamil Nadu (Univ. of Madras)and is not only well known but is also closely associated with Oxford university. Go ahead and buy those books, read it carefully before tagging this page. Ofcourse to read books you need to make time away from warring on wikipedia. Keep your prejudices and frustrations out of Misplaced Pages. I had a feeling you would be doing this shortly, the way you have been warring on other pages. The material on this page is fully accurate, WITHOUT copyvio and has taken months to compile. I have largely maintained this page myself from the last year and a half. I cant be vandalising my own material. Do you know what Vandalism means? Yes, every now and then, people like you who have major linguistic issues and territorial prejudices try to POV and call whatever does not suit your ego and narrow mind as "rubbish", "Kannada propaganda" and such. | |||
| You pointed out that the word Karnataka and Kannada has been used too many times, yet you dont seem to be aware that the great empire ruled from present day Karnataka. You dont seem to have the decency to appreciate the trouble I have taken to unearth info on sanskrit litearture (Sanskrit having come from the north) nor do you appreciate the info I have dug up about comments from historians about the monuments of Maharashtra (]). | |||
| Keep your hatred for other languages, states and people of other cultures outside wikipedia. | |||
| I am removing the tag untill such a time you develop the habit of purchasing these books, reading them and try to disprove the content. | |||
| Ofcourse, you are also free to purchase other similar books on the same topic. Remember, The infomation on this page is "VALID UNTILL PROVEN WRONG". You have no right to make accusations without proof. Also, dont leave any messages in my user page as I prefer to maintain my sanity and prefer not to directly communicate with people like you. Whatever discussions you have do it on this page. | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| I wonder being an educated and well-informed person(atleast ur page claims so),how comne ur so narrow minded and judgemental.How come Marathi has no mentions above?Stop cribbing about Shravanbellor sript.U cant prove Kannada is great and Karnataka is great by proving Marathi is new blah blah and marketing ur Kannadi culture everywhere. | |||
| I also request u to go beyond ourkarntaka.com and what all Kannadi fanatic websites u refer.Since other users have also questioned ur Kannadi marketing here,the neutrality tag is here to stay.And I have no liking to write on ur talk page,i was applauding my Marathi friend who indeed gave a firebrand reply to ur notorious post against Maharashtra.Stop behaving like kannada chauvinist.There is more in world beyond ur Karnataka,Kannada and Kannadis. | |||
| ] 04:25, 10 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| '''Comment''' | |||
| Dear Mr Mahawiki, | |||
| I totally agree with you. If you see the talk pages, contributions, arguments etc put forth by Dinesh Kannambadi it becomes evident that he is a hardened Kannada fanatic. He has been playing havoc with Indian history by pasting material from Kannada/Karnataka websites created and fabricated by Kannada fanatics. He is moving heaven and earth to show that Indian history is Karnataka/Kannada history. We should call his bluff. | |||
| ===Dear anon,plz open a/c and be proactive to combat these bluffs=== | |||
| Thanks for ur reply.I am searching for books/encyclopedias for the information of Rashtrakutas.Why dont u open a a/c at wikipedia and sign ur comments by 4 ~ so that we can communicate better.Yeah,i do know these Kannadi editors take reference of crap like Deccan Herald or ourkarnataka.com to push their POV.Just see ] and ]!!Aint those articles hillarious??They have presented as if their language and that actor is best in the world!But problem starts when these chauvinists vandalise other articles and do 'Kannadisation' of them.Dont worry,we wont allow Kannadisation on more articles.Do u know any other article vandalised by this user?Especvially related to Maharashtra and Marathi. | |||
| ] 07:27, 10 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ************************ | |||
| Reply: Dinesh K | |||
| The reason Marathi does not find mention is because it may not even have been a developed language at that time. Read up on history carefully before showing off your lack of knowledge. | |||
| Tagging and harassing people prevents you from the true experience of learning on wikipedia. But trust | |||
| me, by the end of this issue, you would have learnt a lot about the Rashtrakutas. And stop calling your goons | |||
| to help you. You are behaving like a Goonda. | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| Dear Dinesh, | |||
| First of all u should be the last person to comment about Marathi.U just dont have that intellect and sanity to comment on other language.For u Kannada is world and else is kachra. | |||
| And secondly mind ur language.I know ur nothing short of a vandalist,whose style is different.Ur wise and smart to find fully faltoo references to market Karnataka here and there while projecting urself as a learnt historian.In fact ur lingo itself breaks all misconceptions about ur so-called intellect. | |||
| There is no problem to 'tag' article and plz note that I havent edited out a word.There are many editors who are NOT SATISFIED with ur work.So dont mind the tag.I just have to wait for few hours to get myself acquainted to Rashtrakutas and possible loopholes and advertisements u might have included. | |||
| ] 14:36, 10 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| reply: Dinesh K | |||
| As far as you are concerned, dont harp too much about www.ourKarnataka.com. Most of the material has come from the authors mentioned. www. Karnataka.com is not the main reference there. | |||
| Just a cross reference that happens to match well for most part. | |||
| It seems like you are out on a WAR with Kannada people. Noramlly people like you dont last long on wikipedia simply because you lack the knowledge nor do you aspire for it. You just want to throw your weight around. | |||
| Remember, any change you do make has to be verifiable and should NOT be from blog/web sites of questionable | |||
| authenticy. It should also come with the name of the author who himself can be verified as reputable. | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| Seems u have bited the dust even before I began!What was ur purpose of tagging Maratha or Maratha empire?If u notice few editors here have questioned this articles and hence tagging has to be done here.Stop this vandalism! | |||
| Secondly I have got a source which alone will suffice to clear any doubts which we have and expose any pushing of ] and distortion of facts.And remember I am not answerable to u or ur clan,ur not entitled to threaten me regarding sources.If ourkarnataka.com is used as a source anything can be!Although blog arent a good idea!I have no wars with Kannadis but 'lingual and racist fanatics' who are perhaps writing nice fiction in the name of history.U just have to wait for few hours. | |||
| ] 15:14, 10 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| Reply: Dinesh K. | |||
| Also remember, just because one of your sources does not mention any specific information that I have put out, it does not mean my source is wrong. Just like you are not answerable to me, my source is not answerable to you. To disprove the stuff I have put in, you '''have''' to purchase the books i have referenced. I can give you the cost and the publisher if you are interested. | |||
| Even if you find any other contradictory info, you can only add it as such, not delete my info. | |||
| Now that you brought up the issue, I intend to purchase books on the Maratha Empire and start the same process. Of course, at the end of the day, I will also learn about the Maratha empire. In fact my source , Dr. S.U. Kamat speaks volumes of the atrocities commited by the Marathas in south India, the ransacking of temples near Sringeri etc and their unpopularity there in. You can expect some good info on this in the respective page. | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| Thats what Dinesh!!Ur ourkarnataka.com and S.U.Kamat is fanatic, unauthentic and nothing short of publicity material of fanatic Kannadis.Although I dont know Mr.Kamat,I dont belive u cited ourkarnataka.com as a source!Now that u have moved it to external sections wont save ur face!U just dont worry,I '''wont''' need to buy that books to unearth the truth.I have such reference materials which alone would suffice to clear doubts which we and other editors have!If I find any contradictory info I can delete for sure,but will come to there later.I just have to wait for few hours truth!!!] 15:53, 10 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| Reply: Dinesh K. | |||
| If any reserach material is deleted, this page will go for arbitration, and you know that you cant play your Goonda games then. Similarly your info can also be deleted. So be mature and resposible. | |||
| dinesh | |||
| I want this article to go for arbitration!I will be giving such sources which doesnt imply 'what a biased historian thinks of Rashtrakutas' nor any fanatic material like ourkarnataka.com.I dont want to market anything or push my POV here,nor I want to proclaim that rashtrakutas were Marathis etc etc.I indeed want this article to be thoroughly verified and checked for auntheticity.This article should be based on historical facts and not about what Mr Kamart thinks or what ourkarnataka.com says thru its mind-blowing articles.Arbitration will be perhaps the final call for truth,if u dont accept it!Plz dont have personal attacks.I want to talk in 'citation' lingo.I have no intrest in arguing with u.Plz wait for few hours and then let ur responses and arguments flow! | |||
| ] 16:08, 10 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| reply: Dinesh K. | |||
| Ths is the reply I got for tagging Maratha Empire page from an administrator. | |||
| Tags should not be put on articles where info is missing. As it is this article was never tagged as disputed, nor has a history of edit wars. So putting the tags is highly inappropriate. If you have any information which you feel needs to be added, feel free to add the information. However, I must warn that if the information is controversial, disputed, speculative, derogatory or POV, it is highly imperative if you discuss it on the talk page first. Remember, what to edit and how to edit it is your prerogative, but unfair editing is not tolerated in Misplaced Pages. So, it's upto you to do what you want. | |||
| --NRS(talk to me,mail me or award me a barnstar) 16:27, 10 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| These rules hold good for you also | |||
| ===Maharashtracha apmaan kadapi sahan karnaar naahi=== | |||
| mahawiki, you are not alone in this battle, the warrior has returned !!!! Kannadabadi, beware !!!! | |||
| This article is total Kannadi-propaganda machine!!! The sole editor of this article has vandalised it. The stuff posted in the article is unauthentic and vain. This article could be deleted or the user:Kannadabadi blocked as per ] or ]. | |||
| Kannadabadi, the historians you cite are all fanatical and biased historians. Thapar is a Marxist who is already a big opponent of real ] ]. So, her wiping out of Marathi influence would not be a surprise for me. Kamat is a Kannadi fanatic who has written objectionable matter against Maharashtrians. So citing them is not gonna help your cause. And the way you are behaving, so childishly, stop it. As for the Kadambas being Kannada, I give a shit. It's only because they moved to Karnatake that they adopted Kannadi as a officail language. Kadams are the real ]s originally travelled from ] and set up an empire in ] after which they came to ] and kicked away the ]s and then ruled over them. You shameless fools, losers !!!! You guys want revenge that's why you are resorting to tactics like these. You will never be successful at that. Beware, if you call my brother ], a goonda. I won't tolerate a word against my ] brethren. | |||
| --] 17:10, 10 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| Reply: Dinesh K | |||
| Keep your threats and obscenities to yourself. You are making your personality too obvious. Noboday can delete this page or block me "Legally". Every word in this page is referenced, but reworded to avoid copywrite infringement. I care too hoots for you aggresiveness. If you try to threaten me, I will bring in wiki administrators who will block you, not me. Keep your brotherhood stuff to the streets of Maharashtra. | |||
| I can take on all you guys single handedly because I have books and scholars to back me. Instead of threatening me, try to read up on history and see if can change the content with mature and reasonable research stuff. You are once again showing the same fanatism you showed on other pages, calling any info that goes against you as false, fanatical etc. You are disgracing well known historians which shows you have no respect for History. I am sorry that there are people like you in India. | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| == To Maratti Puttars == | |||
| Maratti sons of soil first of all u guts should mind your language, Dinesh has been doing an exceptionally good job and u fanatics cannot change history what ever you do. | |||
| secondly its Kannadiga not Kannadi, thats why i have spelt Marathi as maratti, | |||
| Thirdly, this site is for everyone to contribute, you can site the source, take photos and travel as dinesh does and then talk or argue about whatever you want, | |||
| Fourthly behave like an indian first, this infighting between us has led to other people taking advantage and don't show off this again to the world. | |||
| Fifthly if you are a maratti fanatic asking for help from fellow marattians thend there are hundreds of kannadiga wikipedians ready for battle. | |||
| ] | |||
| vgowda advaice to ur kannadi brothers first.Dont worry this kannadi fanatism wont work here!! | |||
| ] 19:12, 10 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| Nonsense like this will attract blocks, for Marathis, Kannadis, and for that matter any Indian group - Punjabi, Gujarati, Bengali, Tamil, Telugu, Malayalam, Bengali, etc. ''']''' <nowiki>|</nowiki> ] 01:04, 12 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| == Thanks for your support == | |||
| Thanks for your support, Mr.Gowda. We need to resolve this in a reasonable and mature way, as we both know. | |||
| Some people who dont respect history but threaten others think shouting loud enough and ganging up can change history. We will take this for arbitration if necessary. I have spent too much time, effort and money to let this effort go wasted because of disrespectfull people. | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| == Why r u so frightened dear kannmabaddi? == | |||
| Dinesh, | |||
| U seem to freak out long b4 i even start the verification!Ur duplicate id (Vgowda) wont work here!!!Stop editing article,as I want to signify ur kannadi vandalism more clearly,so stop posting irrelevent stuff abt Kamat,his literary awards blah blah,this just wont work.Stop fidgeting!Dont worry if at all the article u made is true and without any bias.Create n no. of gowdas and powdas,this wont work.Lets stop personal attack now and talk in citation lingo.And regarding arbitration,let me check the article,if biased i will change.Then will follow revert wars and I shall myself go for arbitration.Basically,I am not at all worried of it as I have no agenda,no marketing,no false claims nothing!I just want truth to prevail! | |||
| ] 19:25, 10 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| == Maratty Friend== | |||
| Dear ] ur taking Panga with Kannidagas, there are hundreds of kannada wikipedians as i told you, you cannot impose ur stupit marraty theories and this is me not dinesh go to my home page u will know i am here even before u or dinesh, tension kay ko leta hai re.... | |||
| ] | |||
| reply: Dinesh K. | |||
| You are right mahawiki. You have nothing to loose as this empire had nothing to do with Marathi. All you want to is harrass others because of your inferiority complex and frustrations there in. You are just trying to give me a hard time because of your own complex. But I intend to hang on and see the light come thru here. | |||
| You are here for a short period, not me. I intend to travel in North Karnataka next year, bring photos of Rashtrakuta temples from Pattadakal and Kuknur, Rashtrakuta Kannada inscriptions and coins with Kannada legends from the Government museum in Badami to prove my point. You messed with the wrong person, a person deeply interested in history and a person with utter contempt for people like you, who have little taste for history. The very fact you assumed I was posing as ] shows you are nothing but a goonda who depends on numbers and not facts to support you. Moreover, I dont think is any of your business what I hyperlink and what link info I change, '''so long as the main contents dont change'''. Or are you worried that my sources may seem very respectable while you are scratching around. | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| Dear Dinesh, | |||
| Lets talk citations here!!BTW ur other avtaar vgowda is hillarious!!!] 03:02, 11 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| == Attempt to hide information] 03:43, 11 September 2006 (UTC) == | |||
| An attempt is being made by vandal mahawiki to hide the validity of my sources and the credibility of my sources by constant vandalism. Also, an attempt is being made to prevent hyperlinking to Kannada poets of Rashtrakuta times. | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| == your Avtaar == | |||
| Your other avatar, Arya ... whatever is as ignorant as you are too. | |||
| Dinesh K. | |||
| ==Kannadabadi And His Alter Ego Copycats== | |||
| Kannadabadi, you yourself are turning out to be like your puppet Vgowda. It is only after mahawiki accused you of using a sockpuppet that you are accusing him back. And after he said gaonwada is hilarious that you say Arya is ignorant. This is height of Copying ! Stop your monkey business, kanaddibatti. --] 04:44, 11 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| == 'Kannadisation' of Rashtrakuta?? == | |||
| I have throughly checked the article for possible bias/fabrication of facts regarding Marathi and Maharashtra but fortunately this article doesnt cause any defamation of Marathi or Maharashtra's history. | |||
| But few loopholes in this article are as follows- | |||
| ::1)Inclusion of 'offical language' section in template(of Rashtrakuta empire) is hillarious.One must understand that 'today's indian states' and 'historical kingdoms' are different.Their is nothing like official or unofficial languages.Few poems and inscriptions doesnt make up to a official language, | |||
| '''My Reply''': Dr. Mr Mahawiki.It is clear you have not found any scholarly material to back you. In fact I am confident that even if you search the length and breadth of Bombay, you will not be able to. But anyway let me explain what is an official language is to enlighten you. | |||
| An official language is the language used predominantly in inscriptions (much like todays official documents). Usage of paper at an official level probably started with the Bahamani Sulthans (dont feel too bad because they are Muslims). Paper came into use from China very late | |||
| into Inda, untill which time, even literature was written on purifed inner bark of trees and | |||
| palm leaves. The seal of the King or the local chieften would be imprinted/etched on the inscription to officiate it. Please visit Ellora and you will see some inscriptions there, nomally 5-8 ft tall. | |||
| Also a language can become a court language when literature in that language is encouraged AND / OR when coins are minted with legends in that language. I hope I have enlightened you on this issue. This is what an official language is. Also a language can be a local provincial official language, like the Tulu inscirptions from costal Karnataka are, while majority from the ] are in Kannada since there overlords the Chalukyas and Rashtrakutas used Kannada at an official language. When a kingdom rules from a certian location, whether they are natives of the place or inherit the language, it does not matter, they ae automatically natives of the location. If they are not considered so, not many people in India can lay claim to being Indian (given the Aryan migration theory). I have explained this to Mr. D.B.Kasar, probably a friend of your from your native place. I intend to call them natives of Karnataka and go for arbitration if required. | |||
| >No need!We wont take it seriously!] 14:50, 11 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::2)The biggest loophole is proclaiming the Rashtrakutas were of Kannada origin,which is a bit too assertive statement.These mentions should not be added here.The sources like ourkarnataka and others perhaps also claim that ]'s descendents are originally from Karnataka because of the similarity in names!Dinesh and others should provide a full-proof citation to their claim. | |||
| '''My Reply''': Mr. Mahawiki. I am quoting my scholars on this one including Dr. Bhandarkar, Dr. Kamath, Dr. Altekar. These are not my claims. Please purchase the book. Thats is the reason I used the term "Kannadiga" meaning a native of the state of Karnataka. | |||
| 3)Knowingly or unknowingly the editors here have failed to mention the early 'Rashtrakutas'.Manank,Kuntal's Rashtrakuta,Vidarbha's Vakatak,Kalchuri etc.This information should be added.Morever mention of Manapur(presently Man of Satara district) should also be added. | |||
| My reply: Mr Mahawiki, There are no shortage of ancestors of the Rashtrakutas going back to | |||
| 3-4th century. Historians cant track back so easily. Have you ever seen an ancient inscription? | |||
| I struggle to read Kannada from 18th century(from Mysore gallery), let alone 450C.E. Historians dont spend a lifetime tracking every possible ancestor to satisfy every state in India. Its too confusing and mind boggling. They generally go by the formation of the "state" meaning kingdom and unless specifically required. They try not to dwell too much on feudatory chieftens. This is why you dont find too much info on the ancestors of Kadambas, Chalukyas because after going a few generations they hit a wall of legends etc. | |||
| ::4)Dantidurga was from based in Aurangabad and not in Gulberga(?) | |||
| '''My Reply''': Commanders are servants of a King. Just like government servants today get posted in various parts of the country, so did army commanders. The Sena's of Bengal were army commanders originating from Karnata. They were posted their during the rule of the Palas, contemporaries of Rashtrakutas. They either defected or found regular employment. | |||
| If you notice carefully, Dantidurga's daughter married a Pallava king from Tamil Nadu. | |||
| It is only in todays narrow minded linguistic state approach that we fail to see this. | |||
| ::5)Kannada art and literature section does not deserve so much space in this article.Of course information about Kavirajamarga and Kannada inscriptions should be ncluded but the way this section is presented is bit rediculous! | |||
| '''My Reply''': You are '''NOBODY''' to decide this. Its clear you have a problem with Kannada though you claim you dont. Try taking the info out and you will be cited for vandalism of classical material. No body is stopping you from including classical works in Marathi if you can prove the source from this empire. | |||
| ::6)"""he area between Kaveri River and Godavari River was known as "Kannada Nadu" from Kavirajamarga (850 C.E.) and formed the core area of these two ruling families. Hence according to Dr. Suryanath Kamat, the era deserves to be rightly called the "Age of Imperial Karnataka". An Arab record of 851 C.E. wrote of the Rashtrakutas as one of the four great contemporary empires of the world.""" | |||
| This sentence in irrelevent in this article.Its also not encyclopedic.Here emphasis is more on Kannadis,Kannada literature rather than Rashtrakutas.'''Rashtrakutas cannot be labelled as Kannadis'''. | |||
| '''My Reply''': Mr Mahawiki, This info is fully relavant to the article as it applies to the Empire itself. Again you are showing your prejudice and hatred for Karnataka. Lets not forget that similar comments are made on the page for Maratha empire, Mayuran empire etc and is the opinion of Dr. Kamath, a Sahitya academy award winner in 1973 for his original work. You try to take this out, and you will see repurcussions from wiki administrators. | |||
| Other concerned wikipedians plz notify me if u have problems in 'other' sections/words in this article. | |||
| '''My reply''': Don't try to scare me by calling in the "Mowholla". I cant handle that all too well. | |||
| My advice to you. you are playing in the wrong area of which you have little knowledge. I suggest you take to reading books pertaining history first. | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi. | |||
| My source: Marathi Vishwakosh(khand 14).Publisher:Maharashtra Rajya Vishwakosh Nirmiti Mandal.(funded by Govt.of Maharashtra) | |||
| ] 11:58, 11 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| I request editors to delete the statements which declares Rashtrakutas as kannadis as this is contested by few editors.Morever the mentions about Kannada empire etc are not fit in encyclopedic content.I would request editors to discuss it here before we remove it.] 13:23, 11 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| == Vandalism of classical Kannada literary information] 14:03, 11 September 2006 (UTC) == | |||
| An attempt is being made to vandalise the page and discredit infomation on Kannada literature | |||
| from the Rashtrakutas. All info on literature has been obtained from sources quoted. This is in blatant violation of wiki manners, rules and etiquette. There seems to be an anti- Kannada lobby working towards this. Also an attept is being made to reduce the glory of the empire, because it originated in Karnataka while maintaining the glory of an empire from once own state (Maharashtra). | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| Dear Dinesh, | |||
| Firstly,it is the last time I am asking u to stop personal attacks.Dont scare me by "Try taking the info out and you will be cited for vandalism of classical material." blah blah.This wont have any effecr on me.I just wanted to make sure that their's no defamation caused to Maharashtra and since its clear half of my job is completed.I am just asking for advice from other editors who had few allegations against ur possible 'kannadi imposition'.If they respond and their allegations are genuine I myself will go for arbitration,so pl dont threaten me on this regard. | |||
| '''My Reply''': I have not made presonal attacks. read carefully. You have been blocked out once. Dont let it happen again. | |||
| You have not given the exact answer of my question:Dantidurga was from based in Aurangabad and not in Gulberga(?)The source which I cited clearly mentions that dantidurga is from Aurangabad.U need to back this with appropriate citations.Morever the 'account' of Kannada literature seems to be exaggrated and if I get enough reasons and citations,i will edit for sure.I am sure there are many neutral scholars who shall help a perfectly neutral article out of advertisments! | |||
| '''My Reply''': Read Romilla Thapar's book. Dantidurga's family was based from Gulbarga. | |||
| Any edits you make will have clarify that the Kannada works were not written AND that my sources were exagerating. Or we bring in medeators. | |||
| Morever their is no anti-kannadi lobby but a lobby directed to kannadise all articles possible.Pl note that I am neither a chauvinist or a Maharashtra or Marathi marketer.Pl note defaming other languages or communities will not make ur language any greater.I have got no inferiority complex like few editors here to proclaim 'my language is better than u' or 'our anchestors ruled ur anchestors' etc.] 14:22, 11 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| '''My Reply''': You cae exactly what you claim NOT to be. Some people have a problem when another language gets some importance. This is you real problem and thats why you wanted info on Kannada literature removed. Because it did not agree with your ego. | |||
| Can you disprove that these Kannada litearary works were written?? | |||
| Vakatakas are Rashtrakutas.I have cited the source.I request u to recheck ur facts about Dantidurga of Gulberga.] 14:28, 11 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| What do u exactly mean by Rashtrakutas were Kannadis?Does it mean they spoke Kannada or they from present day Karnataka?Datidurga was a ruler and not a commander,isnt it? | |||
| I would also like to know ur exact sources for 'Kannada literature' subsection.I would like to know more specifically about the citations of books of Mr.Bhandarkar. | |||
| ] 14:41, 11 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| I meant Dantidurga was a chieften under the Chalukyas ruling from the Nasik region. Chieftens also serve as ''Dandanayakas'' or commanders when the need arises. Example, ]. It does not mean he was born in Nasik. Its not easy to prove that. He ruled the Rashtrakuta empire from Gulbarga. Only this is confirmed with his family based there. Thats about all the info that historians can really give with confidence. What you fail to understand is that due to constant intermarraige between cheiften families of different areas, different linguistic influences may have crept in. Marraige between chieften families speaking different languages was all too common, mostly as a means to make peace between warring clans. Just as your source can quote the earliest Rashtrakutas are from Krishna basin (350Ce.) dont be surprised if I can dig up some evidence that '''their''' ancestors probably came from the Tungabhadra basin. As i said earlier, you are splitting hairs and showing inexperience. Again, I am not the one to be claiming that Rashtrakutas were Kannadigas, its the scholars. They ruled their imperial empire from present day Karnataka, encouraged Kannada literature and wrote much of their royal edicts in Kannada. Thats is all historians look for. Go fight with them. I have quoted the scholars. And stop borwbeating. | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| Dinesh | |||
| Again,I want to know about citations of Mr.Bhandarkar.U need to give them and also the EXACT sources which say 'so much' about Kannada literature if u want to keep it!] 14:57, 11 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ==Exact sources== | |||
| The '''exact sources''' are clearly mentioned in the reference section. Buy the books and then lets talk. Just like I took the trouble all these months to read up before editing, do the same. | |||
| In fact the '''exact sources''' have been cross referenced for verification to the works by Dr. Jyotsna Kamat and Arthikaje (which is also a government of Karnataka undertaking just like yours is a Govt. of Maharashtra undertaking). Read up the books referenced on K.A.N. Sastri, Dr. S.U. Kamat, Dr. Thapar and the copyrighted pages of Dr. Jyotsna Kamat and Arthikaje. All the info is right there. | |||
| I want Mr.Bhandarkar's books/ sources which u included.Arthikaje seems of no authenticty(ourkarnataka.com!)Anyways I want to know Mr.Bhandarkar's books and the source from where u get those quotaions.As I said I am wise resercher!I dont look for what a particular historian thinks but for perfectly encyclopedic facts and figures which is neutral.So perhaps I dont need to buy those (biased?) books.] 15:11, 11 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| Reply: reference to The Dr. Bhandarkar and his research (the one who postulates the Kannada origin ) is in the book by Dr. S.U. Kamat. Dont expect me to spoon feed you. Now dont tell me you dont trust Dr. S.U. Kamath because he from Karnataka. Also your maratha mandal ref. is probably not even copyrighted, or is it? can you point me to that book/journal/citation? Give me the EXACT location of this work. Again, you are nobody to decide the authenticity of Arthikaje, Mangalore. You are not a scholar. Even if you were, it simply would remain your opinion , an alternate opinion. | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| I wanted of Dr.Bhandarkar who prostulated Maratha origin.BTW we know how trustworthy Mr.kamat is by his potpourri(website)!No wonder he has got an Kannadi literature award.I dont need ur opinion if i am a scholar or not.Whether I am or not,I dont feel like writing fiction in the name of history.The 'Marathi Vishwakosh's is copyrighted and rights are with Maharashtra Govt.Morever Marathi Vishwakosh mandal takes helps of all scholars/experts related to any subject and doesnt confine with mere Marathi scholars.Marathi vishwakosh is not only supported by Govt. of Maharashtra but also receives subsidy by Central govt.If u want,i can give u the photographs of that article.If u need the exact location look for 'Ra' in khand 14.Perhaps u dont know how to look for information in encyclopedias!!] 15:29, 11 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ==learn to walk before you run= | |||
| Dr. Mrs. Jyotsna Kamat is one scholar. Dr. Mr. Suryanath Kamath is another. They are unrelated scholars. Both have won awards, unless you now want to discredit Karnataka awards. | |||
| Info on the the other scholars, C. V. Vadiaya, R. G. Bhandarka who propounded Maratha origin was obtained from www.ourKarnataka.com itself. (ooops!!!, mahawiki). You were disregarding and discrediting Arthikaje, the writer of ourKarnataka.com, so shall we delete reference to Dr. R.G. Bhandarkar and C.V. Vadiaya who proposed the Maratha origin? None of the other sources even mention their name, where as most of my sources mention the works by Dr. Desai. Dr. Altekar and so on who propouned the Kannada origin. | |||
| Dinesh | |||
| Funny!U said u deleted all references of ourkarnataka.com!Were u lieing?Inclusion of Maratha origin or not doesnt actually lessen my love or pride for my language and culture!I am not one with serious inferiority complex and I dont dig into history everytime to prove Maharashtrians are great!Nor do i need to disrespect other languages to prove my language is great.I know Marathi is great and I dont need certificates for that! | |||
| Anyways thanks for ur info!] 15:50, 11 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| '''My Reply''': I did not say I deleted all references to outKarnataka.com. I said I moved the link to "external links" because I dont need it as a main reference. It was used as a cross reference just to make sure my other sources (scholars) were not missing anything. I can quote my four other sources just as well, '''where ever''' I have quoted Arthikaje, meaning I frequently came across common research claims between various sources which is a good sign for students of basic history. R.G. Bhandarkar and C.V. Vadiaya who proposed the Maratha origin have not been referenced anywhere else that I know of. Dr. P.B. Desai and Dr. Altekar, two of the most renouned authorities on Deccan kingdoms who propounded the Kannada origin and wrote books on that issue are referenced by Dr. S.U. Kamat, Dr. K.A.N Sastri. Dr. Jyotsna Kamat has payed tributes to Dr. Desai and Dr. Altekar in her web pages too, including their works and life details. I included the Maratha origin theory for the sake of fairness, thats all. I could have as well left it out if I wanted to be a Kannada propoganda machine. | |||
| Once again, the books i mention in the "reference" section are books I own. The links in the "external links" sction are copywrited web pages from well known historians too. Putting aside biases, spend 10 minutes and read about the life's work of Dr. Krishnanand. and Dr. Jyotsna Kamat on thie web page and see how many awards they have won and books they have written. For a moment forget that they are from Karnataka (they speak Konkani by the way, not Kannada) and open your mind. | |||
| Dinesh | |||
| Oh yeah!!I know these potpourriwallahs Kamats who poisoned Konkanis that Konkani isnt a dilect of Marathi,'Konkanis should be thankfull' of ppl of Karnataka etc.Nice and kind researchers. | |||
| Go ahead remove the theory of Maratha orign.In fact as per ur kind research all Maharashtrians are indeed kannadis!Marathi is a inferior language since its newer than Kannada (why to consider Maharashtri Prakrit!)In fact Marathi is evolved from Kannada!!Rashtrakutas were Kannadi rulers who rules Maharashtra.Marathi anchestors used to speak Kannadi.Vijayanagara empire was greater than Maratha empire.In fact such brave and imperalist were the Kannadi empires tht they even culturally,lingually and by all other means influenced ].Its name itself unfolds the truth that how Canara should be made a part of Karnataka state.Kannada literature from aadikavi Pampa to contemprary Bhairappa is greatest.Belgaon,Solapur,Mumbai infact whole Maharashra should be merged with Karnataka as Rashtrakutas and other kannadi kings have ruled us.Kannada has got greatest no of Janapeeth awards etc etc.See I opened my mind.Perhaps we Maharashtrians should come back to our roots(kannada)?Should we make Kannada a universal language instead of English?Ur indeed doing a great work by enlightening us.I want to | |||
| express my gratitude for ur research.U deserve a Barnstar. | |||
| Jai Kannadambe. | |||
| Jai kannadis. | |||
| jai Karnataka. | |||
| ] 17:45, 11 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| == path to Maratha mandal == | |||
| 'Ra' in khand 14 is a meaningless statement. Give me the path on the web? and it has to be in English or your source is invalid untill it is translated to a common medium of English. | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| Buy urself a Khand 14 of Marathi vishwakosh.I dont have any books cited called Maratha Mandal.Look for 'ra',rather i shall give u the page no. if u intend.This is the way we refer encyclopedia. | |||
| Find a Marathi speaker who shall translate it for u.Marathi is the 4 th most spoken language in India and 17th in world(wrt:no of speakers as first language) so its more likely u will find one. | |||
| There's no path of kamaths,thapars etc on web,why do u expect me to give Marathi Vishwakosh's path on web ?] 15:50, 11 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| '''My Reply''': Look carefully at the links for Dr. Mrs. Jyotsna Kamat in main page for Rashtra... | |||
| For Dr. Suryanath kamath either buy his book or look up google for his credentials. | |||
| I will find out wiki rules for language policy for reference though. | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| ==You are embarrassing me== | |||
| Dear Mr. Mahawiki, you are embarrassing me by praising Kannada and Kannada people so much. We are not used to it. I have never said Marathi is inferior, just younger. I have never specifically said Karnataka is greater than Maharashtra. I have lived in the USA for 18 years and learnt a lot about India from a different perspective and learnt to be proud of her. My wife is Telugu, my sister-in-law a Muslim. It just so happens that my closest and oldest friend in Sunnyvale, California is a Marathi. I have learnt quite a bit I would say. | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| Younger hence inferior,right?U didnt specifically said K'taka is greater than Maha,but u think it is.It is greater than anything else!Perhaps u have had fights with california's friend,so u r bombing Maharashtrians here!] | |||
| == Calm talk == | |||
| There standard of talk on this page is very poor. Vgowda has been blocked. There are some Indian language terms which I supsect are insults given the tone of them. I have been taking a look at this stuff. Diffs would be more helpful for quick service as I am quite busy trying to control many conflicts. Translations would also be helpful. The siege and warfare mentality of Karantaka vs Maharashtra is also poor. Feel free to leave diffs and translations citing bad behaviour on my talk page. Thanks, ''']''' <nowiki>|</nowiki> ] 01:08, 12 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| == My thoughts for developing this page further] 21:34, 12 September 2006 (UTC) == | |||
| '''My Thoughts'''<br> | |||
| I started working on this page probably more than a year back (If I remember right), with the best intentions of providing reasonable historical details. Over the last several months I believe I have brought in valid, balanced information, be it literature (in Sanskrit or Kannada), architecture (be it in Maharashtra or Karnataka), in expanssion or contraction of the empire or with respect to another much debated issue, religion (of the kings I mean). All this was done wih the right intention and true interest in history. I have maintained the same | |||
| attitude over other pages I have contributed to (after a brief learning curve ofcourse). Unfortunately, this page seems to have suffered the most with respect to disputes, much of which would not have happened if all contributors would have the habit of reading history books. I understand thats not fair to ask because people come from various backgrounds with various tastes and interests. Unfortunatley in India, vested political interests prevent people from learning real history and this is not intended as a remark against any particular state or government. Its no wonder that kids grow up learning selective history, with no fluidity in their knowledge. | |||
| '''Where Do we go from here''' | |||
| I have taken it upon myself to make necessary plans to travel to India next year (Summer here in the USA, which I do every year), visit well known places of Rashtrakuta temple architecture, take photographs of their Inscriptions (''ShilaShasana'') and coins with both Kannada and Sanskrit legends on them, create .jpg files and upload them onto this page. If that does not help us understand history, then nothing can. | |||
| Rashtrakutas, unlike other Karnataka Empires scattered their monuments over a large area. | |||
| While the finest are undoubtedly in ], ], they built many fine monuments in ] and other hard to reach locals of Karnataka. | |||
| At some point its my intention to bring this page to "Featured article" status. I will defnitely work towards it. In the meantime I have decided to order for more books if I can find it (on this empire). I am here for the long haul and hopefully we can all learn something in the process. | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| Dear Dinesh, | |||
| Ur prejudice towards Sanskrit and Marathi can be perceived by ur 'permit' to write Sanskrit transliteration.Why didnt u write urself?If many editors (dont include me as I have little knowledge of rashtrakutas)are contesting ur judgement of Rashtrakutas being Kannadi why arent u allowing tags?Thapars,Kamats are perhaps well-known historians but can u understand that their claims are 'opinions' and 'assertions',they may be true or false.These are also humans having prejudices.Will u include what 'Pakistani authors' think about Gandhi on Gandhi's article? | |||
| You had posted a nasty message about Shravanbellor inscriptions on Marathi article.U had also commented about Konkani not being a dialect of Marathi.Its my humble request to u to stop posting such messages as it will be PAINFUL for us and in turn painful to u.Being Marathi inscription in Karnataka at 983CE(which is supposed to be a Rashtrakuta period) signify existance of Marathi too?Why isnt it included here?I dont know its relevant or not though.Why havent u signify kannada's root(Tamil) in Kannada article.This is called prejudice.I assume good faith and hope u shall think about it. | |||
| Rashtrakutas being Kannadi or Marathi is not suggested in my source.I asked a person well-versed in History about this and he said what we call ourselves as 'Kannadi' or 'Marathi' was non-existent then.Rashtrakutas cannot be labelled as Marathi or Kannadi.The official language thing is also unheard.Better term will be 'languages prevalent'.Morever ue summary of Kannadi literature/arts etc doesnt require so much place here.Perhaps u can create a new article of it.There's little information about 'sculptures'.I hope u shall consider all this.Plz do sign ur comments by 4 ~s. | |||
| ] 07:04, 13 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :Mahawiki, hopefully for the last time, | |||
| :*If you can give me credible sources that prove that Kannada is born out of tamil, i will copy and paste your exact words into the articles myself. (Do you know *ANYTHING* about either Kannada or Tamil? anything at all? for starters you cant even spell Kannada right) | |||
| :*If you can prove to me that Konkani is a dialect of Marathi, I will add it into the konkani page myself. | |||
| :*If you can prove to me against the views of respected historians and linguists that Kannada didnt even exist during Rashtrakuta days, I will delete all references to kannada myself. | |||
| :For starters, I request you to please make a trip to elephenta which is well inside present day Maharashtra - not a border area or anything. I assume that you are either in mumbai or poona, so it should not be such a big deal for you to make the trip. Go see with your own eyes the numerous Kannada inscriptions all over the caves. Take some photographs of those inscriptions and show them to your historian friend and ask him once again if Kannada existed then or not. Better still take your friend with you. | |||
| :'''On the other hand, if you cant prove ANY of your claims and if you just want to keep concocting theories out of thin air and use those theories to badger serious editors here, I humbly request you to please refrain from doing so and let us go about editing wikipedia peacefully. You are only wasting everybody's time and spoiling the atmosphere in general.''' | |||
| :My offer holds for your other pet theories too, like the one which claims that the Karnataka government is oppressing/butchering Marathis in Belagavi and other places, the valluvar statue theory, kaveri dispute etc.,. Again, do you even know what the issue is with the statue? or are you simply picking up some lines from some troll somewhere and palming it off on unsuspecting audience? You even asked what some 'Amma's' photo was doing on the Belgaum page? If you dont know who that Amma is, seriously, you shouldnt even be editing that page. | |||
| :Instead of fighting with us on so many articles, spend your time creating articles about Marathi's richness and greatness. That will be a more constructive use of both your time and our time. ] 08:02, 13 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| --------------****************--------------------- | |||
| My replies are below. | |||
| '''Your Q''': Ur prejudice towards Sanskrit and Marathi can be perceived by ur 'permit' to write Sanskrit transliteration.Why didnt u write urself?... | |||
| '''My Reply''': Read the message on the edit carefully. It did not say "permit". I said feel free. I cant write in Sanskrit. All historians have views, but they are educated views. | |||
| We cant go around tagging the whole of wikipedia just because historians are also human beings given to shortcomings, (including the Maratha Empire page). | |||
| '''Your Q''': Being Marathi inscription in Karnataka at 983CE(which is supposed to be a Rashtrakuta period) signify existance of Marathi too.... | |||
| '''My Reply''': The 983 C.E. may be Marathi (Some historians say is Maharashtri Prakrit actually but that is not the issue). Let me give you some information since you brought up the issue. | |||
| There is no shortage of Kannada inscriptions from the Tamil Cholas when they ruled parts of Karnataka (Nanjungudu temple near Mysore, Kolaramma temple in Kolar town etc). That does not make Kannada an official language in the Chola court.It is just a regional convinience, which is why I quoted the example of ] earlier. These are provincial inscriptions and thats that. It does not make Kannada an official language of that kingdom, unless the number of inscriptions is so large that it makes it necessary to be so labeled. '''Let me give you a surprise''' (from my scholarly sources ofcourse). There are also many Kannada inscriptions inscribed by the Marathas, including Shivaji, from Gadag or Hubli (Laksmaeswara area if I recall), from Chitradurga district, Chikkaballapura and Chintamani both in Kolar district.(the town gets its name from the Maratha chieften Chintamani Rao). Now would you call Kannada an official language of the Marathas?. | |||
| The source of Kannada and Konkani is not an issue on this page so I shall not comment on it. | |||
| '''Your Q''': | |||
| The official language thing is also unheard...... | |||
| '''My reply''': I am sure your learned friend is not a historian. Talking to people and professing it on wikipedia is against the wiki rules. This is not a market place. The word "official language" is an English version of the word "DeshaBhasha" whose concept has existed since the last 5000 years. Also, we are follwing the same theme in creating the language box as in all other Kingdoms. Feel '''free''' to do so for the Maratha Empire also. | |||
| '''Your Q''': Morever ue summary of Kannadi literature/arts etc doesnt require so much place here.Perhaps u can create a new article of it..... | |||
| You cant hide history behind curtains just because you have a problem with a particular language. If you touch the matter, I will bring in the administrators. This issue is about classical literature and only the most famous Kannada and Sanskrit scholars have been listed so far. This list may grow depending on new findings from additional sources. Feel '''free''' to add Sanskrit scholars and their works as and when you come across it. | |||
| '''Your Q''':There's little information about 'sculptures'.... | |||
| '''My reply''': I will be happy to put in more info on sculptures as I come across them, irrespective of whether the sculptures is in Maharashtra or Karnataka. I have been balanced on all these. Dont expect me to travel to Ellora and Elephanta just to make you happy, unless you are willing to sponsor the trip. Feel '''free''' to travel there, get pictures and log them in. Lets all enjoy them. | |||
| Vanity is not a good reason to downplay some topics and emphasise on other issues only. If you are doing all this to badger me, the repercussions are always negative. If you are constructive, your efforts will shine thru. | |||
| I know you are being encouraged by your friend, Arya... which is fine, just make sure he is not taking advantage of you. | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| Firstly,labelling Rashtrakutas as Kannadis is like labelling Guptas as Biharis!As I had guessed earlier,its u who is being jingoistic about ur language!I am sure editors of Marathi Vishwakosh are bright enough to know difference between Maharashtri Prakrit and Marathi.Keep ur obnoxious comments to urself.I am not denying the Kannada literature flourishing under Rashtrakutas,I was commenting against its 'endorsemens' here.Its nothing short of adverstising.Yuor comments about Marathas doing Kannada inscriptions doesnt surprise me at all.(assuming ur claims are true)Marathas and Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj were no doubt a brave Kshatriyas who respected all faiths and cultures.Well,there's no need of threats like 'i will call admins!!!'.If at all I find any pushing of POV,I shall myself do the honour!By sculptures I didnt mean specifically of Maharashtra.I found no means of 'Kaamsakt' sculptures.Of course I dont expect u to come in Maharashtra and do research here since ur busy concetrating on 'how to market Kannada and Karnataka' to world!I bet ur a paid member of that odd Kannad rakshan vedike!Dont worry about Arya..,I shall manage it myself.U try and console that brat Sarvagnya.Tell him to take a chill pill!He is crashed due to his defeat in Belgaon article! | |||
| Btw plz continue with ur work.We'll meet again if at all u do something nasty to the articles of my concern. | |||
| '''Jai Maharashtra''' | |||
| ] 18:34, 13 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| == Hyperbole == | |||
| I am a bit concerned by the opening paragraph - ''" The emergence of the Rashtrakutas heralded a new era in the history of South India. The idiom of a Pan-Indian empire had moved to south. South Indian kingdoms had hitherto ruled areas only south of the Narmada. It was the Rashtrakutas who first forged north to the Gangetic plains and successfully contested their might against the Palas of Bengal and the Prathiharas of Gujarat"'' - I think it needs to be solidified. Also the art section contains too many flourisihing adjectives imho.''']''' <nowiki>|</nowiki> ] 05:40, 14 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| == Rashtrakuta branches] 12:58, 19 September 2006 (UTC) == | |||
| Please provide reference source for any info put in on Rashtrakuta branches. I am aware that many descendents of the Rashtrakutas set up small kingdoms in North India in the 11-13th centuries but my sources do not provide any further info. | |||
| Dineshkannambadi | |||
| : I have added several references about the branches of Rashtrakutas. | |||
| : Please don't delete the information now. | |||
| : Incidentally the Paramaras have a connetion with the Rashtrakutas, but that is a separate topic. | |||
| :--] 23:08, 20 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| == Contacted admin] 14:22, 20 September 2006 (UTC) == | |||
| I have contacted the administrator to keep this warring "Mahawiki" out of this page. | |||
| Please block him if he continues this nonscence. | |||
| Dinesh Kannambadi | |||
| ==Tipu Sultan Better Than Rashtrakuta== | |||
| Tipu Sultan can beat Cannad Rashtrakut anytime. Tipu Sultan was th greatest ruler of all-time. He kicked away the Mysore kings and became a GREAT SULTAN !!!!! He brought the great language '''URDU''' to foolish Karnatak people speaking old bland Cannad language. The beauty of Urdu language floored many Cannad people and they adopted Urdu and became Muslim. Tipu didnt force anyone to become Muslim. He was a great king. He did the great work of making '''"Kafiristan Karnatak"''' into '''"Dar-Ul-Karnatistan"'''. Thank him for the riches he brought to Caranatak. Otherewise what were these Cannada people doing. Poor people were slaves to the Marathas and Nizam. After Tipu, the Mysore Rajas again became slaves, this time of European British. But still Carnatic government dont make justice. Urdu should be made Carnatik state's official language. Fools, stop badmouthing the gr8 Tipu Sultan. | |||
| ALL HAIL THE GREAT TIPU SULTAN !!!! | |||
| DOWN WITH THE CANNADDA FANATICS !!!! | |||
| Tipu Beat Cannad | |||
| Dear Tipu, | |||
| It would be nice if u express ur views in mild language.I do know about totures of Karnataka government against linguistic minorities like Marathi,Urdu or Tamil,but plz dont call names here since it is termed as uncivil behaviour! | |||
| ] 12:32, 22 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
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Citation missing
Origin of Rashtrakutas
It has been well established in the article that Rashtrakutas were of Kannada Origin. It has also been mentioned that they were of Dravidian Cultivator origin. The chief cultivating caste of Karnataka are the Vokkaligas. Kindly mention the possible Vokkaliga origin. Shetty, Sadanand Ramakrishna (1994). Banavasi Through the Ages. Banavasi (India): Printwell. p. 121.:“The community of the land tillers or agriculturists was known as vokkaligas. The importance given to the cultivation of land is amply demonstrated by the fact that numerous tanks were dug and irrigational facilities were provided at various places. Some of the Rashtrakuta inscriptions found in the Banavasimandala carry the depiction of a plough at the top. There is a view that the Rashtrakutas were originally prosperous cultivators, who later on dominated the political scene. Some of the inscriptions refer to them as Kutumbinah which is interpreted as meaning cultivators.” https://books.google.co.in/books?id=cUhuAAAAMAAJ&dq=vokkaliga+rashtrakuta&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=vokkaliga+rashtrakuta Cyberanthropologist (talk) 04:56, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
- That the early Rashtrakutas may have been Kannadigas is already emphasized in the article. The fact that the Rashtrakutas of Manyakheta were surely of Kannada origin has been mentioned again. No need to further give a caste designation as Vokkaligas. Makes no sense.Pied Hornbill (talk) 13:58, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
Castes like Telugu Reddy, Marathi Marathas are mentioned in the article despite historians like Altekar proving the contrary (Even this is mentioned in the origin of Rahstrkutas article, but you’ve let Reddy and Maratha stay). Even obscure origin theories from Punjab are mentioned. It’s only fair that the Chief Cultivating Kannada caste, the Vokkaligas are mentioned. Kannad origin isn’t sufficient as that is not an ethnic identity like caste. Kindly allow the addition of Vokkaligas for fairness and neutrality. Cyberanthropologist (talk) 14:07, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
- Of the various books that I have read up on Rashtrakutas, this must be the only one that gives a caste connotation to Kannadiga origin. Better to keep it general.Pied Hornbill (talk) 12:30, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
Alright sir, thank you for maintaining the top knotch article. Cyberanthropologist (talk) 14:18, 15 April 2021 (UTC) Citation missing for the following sentence under Architecture section:
“Other famous rock-cut temples in the Maharashtra region are the Dhumer Lena and Dashvatara cave temples in Ellora (famous for its sculptures of Vishnu and Shivaleela) and the Jogeshvari temple near Mumbai.”
Were these temples built by Rashtrakutas too? Clarity needed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2405:204:578A:90AE:8166:FF8F:F57E:AA30 (talk) 14:06, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
Citations not clear
There are no proper links for editors to check validity of the claims in this article for example, in society section it is extensively given that sati practice was prevalent but no link is given for readers to cross check the fact. The para even goes as far as saying that there are examples of members of royal family self immolating but does not give any proof of it. Should this be allowed? MindOfOm (talk) 03:17, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Exaggeration
"At their peak the Rashtrakutas of Manyakheta ruled a vast empire stretching from the Ganges River and Yamuna River doab in the north to Kanyakumari in the south" This statement is not backed with evidence. 217.43.83.91 (talk) 00:07, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
Requested move 27 February 2024
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 17:12, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Rashtrakuta dynasty → Rashtrakuta Empire – The Rashtrakutas were an empire than a dynasty, the empire consisted of many regions, states and vassals or feudatories of different ethno-linguistical identity and their region, in modern India the states which were part of the Rashtrakuta extension were Karnataka, Maharashtra, Gujarat, Andhra Pradesh, Telangana, Tamil Nadu, Goa, Madhya Pradesh and their influence over Northern India & Sri Lanka, here is an Historian based work which shows the map of Rashtrakutas in his work which is mainly written about Rashtrakutas CatTheMeow (talk) 14:25, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
References
- Support This article is clearly about the state and not the rulers. Arnav Bhate (talk) 14:51, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support per CatTheMeow and Arnav Bhate. The article is written in the context of an empire/state. A different article should be made or expanded upon to talk about the dynasty themselves. Zemmiphobia007 (talk) 18:30, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note: WikiProject India has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:54, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note: WikiProject Former countries has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:54, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
Requested move 30 April 2024
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 15:09, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Rashtrakuta Empire → Rashtrakutas – Ngram graph suggests that the term Rashtrakutas have been used throughout commonly, and much WP:RS refers it in similar way. In JSTOR, 320 results for "Rashtrakutas" 288 results for "Rashtrakuta dynasty" , and 17 results for "Rashtrakuta Empire" . The pattern repeats in most of the WP:RS Imperial 18:54, 30 April 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 20:45, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
- comment: The nominator of Requested move 27 February 2024 is banned for their disruptive behaviour to other editors; and their PoV pushing (for Kannada) actions aganist articles which didn't satisfy their PoV.--Imperial 18:57, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: While the nominator may have been banned, the argument seems to be still valid. Is the focus of the article the dynasty (a line of kings) or the kingdom? Currently, it seems to be the latter. Redtigerxyz 12:01, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Whether it's referred to as a "Kingdom," "State," or a "Dynasty," we cannot label an entity as an "Empire" unless reliable sources and historians do so. The discussion on the 27th is purely based on WP:OR, lacking evidence or valid statements. While there were indeed many branches of the Rashtrakutas, the parent article should be the one that is more WP: NOTABLE than the minor branches. Ngram and keyword searches can determine which term is more suitable for WP:COMMONNAME and which is not. Imperial 13:46, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose, @ImperialAficionado I will not say it again again that you cannot destroy the historicity of a Power just because of Ngram.
- See the Wp: RS for the Name Rastrakuta Empire
- History of Medival India from 800-1700 by Satish Chandra. Page no 12"Rastrakuta Empire which dominated deccan and also controlled territories in north and South India"
- History and Culture of Indian People by R.C Majumdar Volume 4. Page no 4 "The Ganga king Srfpurusha Muttarasa was defeated, his crownprince ^ivamara was taken prisoner, and the whole of Gangavatjl was annexed to the Rashtrakuta empire"
- Rastrakutas and their times by As Atelkar"Boundaries of the Rashtrakuta empire did not alter as a result of his successes against Vatsaraja and Dharmapala." Rawn3012 (talk) 11:23, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
- Whether it's referred to as a "Kingdom," "State," or a "Dynasty," we cannot label an entity as an "Empire" unless reliable sources and historians do so. The discussion on the 27th is purely based on WP:OR, lacking evidence or valid statements. While there were indeed many branches of the Rashtrakutas, the parent article should be the one that is more WP: NOTABLE than the minor branches. Ngram and keyword searches can determine which term is more suitable for WP:COMMONNAME and which is not. Imperial 13:46, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: While the nominator may have been banned, the argument seems to be still valid. Is the focus of the article the dynasty (a line of kings) or the kingdom? Currently, it seems to be the latter. Redtigerxyz 12:01, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support either Rashtrakutas or Rashtrakuta dynasty, per English-language common name in reliable sources. Celia Homeford (talk) 11:49, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support: Same as @Celia Homeford. PadFoot2008 14:38, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- @Celia Homeford I thing you should check WP: Precise.The Rastrakutas were an Empire, source of it is given below as you can check them. You can destroy a Imperial Historicity of a power just because Ngram and other things. We should go with what WP: RS says. Rawn3012 (talk) 16:38, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support Meaningful. Capitals00 (talk) 17:02, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose That's not how we evaluate Ngram hits. It's obvious that Rashtrakutas would be more prevalent in sources as it refers to the nation and its people rather than an empire, a state or a kingdom. Consequently "Marathas", "Ghaznavids" and "Seljuks" are more prevalent than "Maratha Empire" , Ghaznavid Empire" and "Seljuk Empire" respectively, but that doesn't mean we should start renaming them. (Because it refers to common ethnic, linguistic and regional people as a whole not an empire, a state or a kingdom). Moreover we find scholars like RC Majumdar, AS Altekar and KA Nilkanta entitling Rashtrakuta Empire. Hence I don't see how nom's and above arguments of @PadFoot2008 and @Celia Homeford are valid at all.Based Kashmiri (talk) 03:51, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
List
I think we are missing a list of Manyakheta Rashtrakuta emperors here. PadFoot (talk) 08:08, 12 October 2024 (UTC)
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