| Revision as of 01:04, 3 May 2017 editRenamed user 995577823Xyn (talk | contribs)58,205 edits The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. ← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 18:49, 2 January 2025 edit undoCewbot (talk | contribs)Bots7,578,921 editsm Maintain {{WPBS}}: 5 WikiProject templates. (Fix Category:Pages using WikiProject banner shell with unknown parameters)Tag: Talk banner shell conversion | ||
| (763 intermediate revisions by more than 100 users not shown) | |||
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
| {{Skip to talk}} | |||
| {{Use dmy dates|date=October 2016}} | |||
| {{American English}} | |||
| {{GA|15:04, 15 June 2016 (UTC)|page=1|topic=Media and drama|oldid=725419338}} | {{GA|15:04, 15 June 2016 (UTC)|page=1|topic=Media and drama|oldid=725419338}} | ||
| {{Talk header}} | {{Talk header}} | ||
| {{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=yes|class=GA|vital=yes|listas=Grant, Cary|blp=no|1= | |||
| {{Vital article|level=4|topic=People|class=GA}} | |||
| {{WikiProject |
{{WikiProject Biography|filmbio-work-group=yes|filmbio-priority=Top}} | ||
| {{WikiProject |
{{WikiProject Bristol|importance=high|photo=yes}} | ||
| {{WikiProject |
{{WikiProject Theatre|importance=mid}} | ||
| {{WikiProject |
{{WikiProject United States|importance=low}} | ||
| ⚫ | {{WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies|explanation=This tag does not make any definite assertions about Grant's sexuality; however, having reviewed the text, it is of significant enough note that the banner is warranted.}} | ||
| {{WikiProject United States|class=GA|importance=low}} | |||
| ⚫ | {{WikiProject |
||
| {{WP1.0|v0.7=pass|class=GA|category=Langlit|importance=low}} | |||
| }} | }} | ||
| {{WPUKIR10k}} | |||
| {{annual readership |expanded=true|scale=log}} | |||
| ⚫ | {{Calm}} | ||
| {{User:MiszaBot/config | {{User:MiszaBot/config | ||
| |archiveheader = {{aan}} | |archiveheader = {{aan}} | ||
| |maxarchivesize = 150K | |maxarchivesize = 150K | ||
| |counter = |
|counter = 6 | ||
| |minthreadsleft = 4 | |minthreadsleft = 4 | ||
| |minthreadstoarchive = 1 | |minthreadstoarchive = 1 | ||
| Line 21: | Line 23: | ||
| }} | }} | ||
| == |
== Politics == | ||
| I also added a brief section on Grant's political views, noting he was not an overtly political figure by his own admission but did make the 1976 GOP appearance and occassionally commented on events | |||
| {{hat|Aww jeez, not this again}} | |||
| Why should we not put an info box?] (]) 23:30, 25 August 2016 (UTC) | |||
| == | |||
| : ] (]) 23:32, 25 August 2016 (UTC) | |||
| == Cary Grant's accent == | |||
| ::What Consensus are you referring to? Seems that there was support for restoring it.--] ]</font> 00:06, 13 September 2016 (UTC) | |||
| Grant's accent British with a try for America which comes out Beautifully | |||
| :::While sports and politician bios can benefit from infoboxes, most articles in liberal arts fields, as here, do not: I disagree with including an infobox in this article because: (1) The box ''emphasizes unimportant factoids stripped of context and lacking nuance'', in competition with the ] section, which emphasizes and contextualizes the most important facts. (2) Since the most important points in the article are already discussed in the Lead, or adequately discussed in the body of the article, the box is ''redundant''. (3) It takes up valuable space at the top of the article and ''hampers the layout'' and impact of the Lead. (4) ''Frequent errors'' creep into infoboxes, as updates are made to the articles but not reflected in the redundant info in the box, and they tend to draw ''more and fancruft'' than other parts of articles. (5) The infobox template creates a block of ''code at the top'' of the edit screen that ''discourages new editors from editing the article''. (6) It ''discourages readers from reading the article''. (7) It ''distracts editors from focusing on the content'' of the article. Instead of improving the article, they spend time working on this repetitive feature and its coding and formatting. See also ]. -- ] (]) 16:09, 9 October 2016 (UTC) | |||
| but British. ] (]) 14:41, 26 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
| :Sorry, your point being…? – ] (]) 06:57, 13 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
| To throw in my two cents, I think infoboxes are an important aspect of an article, and Grant seems to (randomly) be the only famous, impactful person on this entire site without one. I like looking at an infobox and instantly seeing age/spouses/etc instead of having to scroll through the entire article looking for one basic piece of information, which I know "discourages reading entire page" but people will read an article if they want, regardless of condensed info. ] (]) 15:48, 17 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| "British" is pretty vague and misleading. There's quite a bit of cockney in Grant's accent. ] (]) 13:25, 16 June 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Excessively long lede == | |||
| I don't wish to start a war here, but I agree that of all the well-developed articles on influential, well-known people I've seen on here, this seems to be the only one where the infobox was deliberately removed, and it just looks weird. The infoboxes have become a recognizable feature of Misplaced Pages, and while they do repeat some info from the main body of the article, they are also really helpful for giving a summary of the main points about a person (birth, death, birthplace, etc.) I hope this isn't the start of some movement to remove them all from articles of famous people who aren't in sports or politics, as doing this would discourage me from using Misplaced Pages because I don't want to have to read walls of text to get a short summary of a person with a lengthy article. ] (]) 22:09, 27 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| It seems common for WP's celebrity articles to have ledes that run away with themselves like this, no doubt from fan enthusiasm. However, a successful lede is an ''introduction'' to an article, usually a single paragraph summarizing its major points and encouraging people to read on—not something like this, which competes with the article in its level of detail. Can we do something about it? – ] (]) 07:05, 13 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :For {{u|TheBlinkster|your}} information, see , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , not to mention the many more articles listed at ] that don't use infoboxes. But on behalf of other content creators everywhere, I do apologise for making you read the "walls of text" we have sweated blood and tears over. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px Black;">]<sup>]</sup></span>''' 22:41, 27 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| :Fan enthusiasm?? It is pretty concise for such a prominent actor, nothing wrong with the length, it needs to be reasonable to summarize the whole article. It's 464 words, ] recommends 250-400 words for featured articles. And this isn't. ♦ ] 10:19, 13 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::Misplaced Pages is supposed to be a useful tool to obtain information, and a feature that makes it easier and quicker to find basic information should be welcomed, not disparaged because then people don't read all the content. Many users of traditional encyclopedias for reference have used them to search for a particular fact or two, with the reading of the longer article an option if you wanted more in-depth information. Encyclopedias aren't about the reader appreciating the hard work of the content creator, but about presenting useful information in the forms in which it will be most useful, in my opinion. ] (]) 22:52, 27 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| :::Then maybe we should not bother at all then? Let's have a sodding infobox and be done with it. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px Black;">]<sup>]</sup></span>''' 23:18, 27 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| ⚫ | {{ |
||
| == Trouble understanding, perhaps a British idiom? == | |||
| == His clothing donated to charity after death == | |||
| Both '''' magazine and '''' reported that his clothing was donated discreetly to the poor and homeless after his death, which is in line with Jennifer working on homeless issues at a law firm before becoming an actress. The article currently says something different, that it went to celebrities and others. I think the article should be corrected on this point, as these are two very high quality sources. I will leave this to regular editors here to decide what to do. Thanks. ] (]) 18:49, 17 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| :{{done}}. I decided to make the edit myself, adding a new sourced line. ] (]) 13:20, 18 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| :::I'm very sorry, but I've removed it because in my opinion, it adds nothing of value. {{u|5Q5|Feel}} free to discuss, though, should you feel it particularly important to mention where Grant's clothes went to after his death. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px Black;">]<sup>]</sup></span>''' 17:29, 18 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| What does this mean? | |||
| :::::{{Disagree}} My edit in the article providing high quality news media sources stating that Cary Grant's clothes were donated to the poor and homeless after his death was reverted by editor ] who called it an ''"Uninteresting factoid not worthy of inclusion."'' I therefore wish to store the deleted line and reference here in protest because the line contradicts and corrects the claim currently in the article that is sourced to third party 1997 biographer Graham McCann (the book's copyright actually says 1996, ''Cary Grant: A Class Apart''), who never communicated with Grant's daughter or wife when writing his book and who, according to this Misplaced Pages article, says his clothes were donated to "Frank Sinatra, Roderick Mann, Stanley Donen, Kirk Kerkorian and others." I could not verify this claim searching for these names in the book on books.google. Here is the "uninteresting" deleted line "not worthy of inclusion" (it could have been tweaked by any editor if necessary, as opposed to deletion): | |||
| <div class="boilerplate metadata" id="attention" style="background-color: #FFFFFF; margin: 0 2.5%; padding: 0 10px; border: 1px solid #aaa;"> | |||
| '']'' reported on August 24, 2016 in an interview with Jennifer Grant that she donated her father's clothing to charitable organizations and the homeless.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.wsj.com/article_email/the-strange-journey-of-cary-grants-suits-1472058154-lMyQjAxMTA2MDIyNTIyNjU4Wj |title=The Strange Journey of Cary Grant’s Suits |last=Binkley |first=Christina |date=August 24, 2016 |website=wsj.com |publisher=The Wall Street Journal |accessdate=January 18, 2017 |quote=Today the clothing of celebrities goes to auction; the actor’s daughter gave away his famously stylish wardrobe without anyone realizing.}} Excerpted also in '''' magazine August 26, 2016.</ref>{{Reflist}}</div> | |||
| :::::Finally, I wish to express my position that this article currently suffers from a lack of credibility due its preference for poor quality sources, those being biographies by strangers and fan websites over mainstream news media interviews with Grant's daughter and wife. It therefore isn't worth my time to attempt future edits. The article simply cannot be trusted. Good day. ] (]) 17:48, 27 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::{{u|5Q5|You}} can throw a tantrum as much as you like, your edit was not an improvement. It's as simple as that. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px Black;">]<sup>]</sup></span>''' 18:49, 27 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::This is ridiculous. Minor bequests, regardless of who got them, don't belong in the article at all. I'm debating whether to delete the entire last line, in fact. ] (]) 12:18, 28 February 2017 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::Yeah, I've axed the last line. ] (]) 12:21, 28 February 2017 (UTC) | |||
| and would reduce pocket money for minor mishaps. | |||
| == The Black Curtain -- Is this a joke? == | |||
| Reduce makes less. Pocket money is small amount of loose bills and coins. Minor mishaps are usually insignificant mistakes or accidents. Putting it all together leaves me confused. His mother gave away/spent loose change when minor accidents happened? ] (]) 11:39, 25 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Text currently includes the following: | |||
| :Pocket money is a British term for an allowance given to kids by their parents. I guess we need to leave it like it is because of engvar. Unless you want to elaborate somehow. ] <small>(])</small> 17:32, 25 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| "Late in the year he featured in the CBS Radio series Suspense, playing a tormented character who hysterically discovers that his amnesia has affected masculine order in society in 'The Black Curtain'." | |||
| ::Thanks for clearing it up. Is allowance more universally understood? | |||
| What is that supposed to mean? I've read the Woolrich source material and heard the radio episode, and it's standard suspense fare about a man who wants to know who he might have been and what crime he might have committed during a protracted period of amnesia. There's no deconstruction of sex roles in it, I assure you. The citation provides no illumination. Unless some justification for the current version can be shown, a more standard synopsis, with citation, is called for. ] (]) 10:22, 28 February 2017 (UTC) | |||
| ::<blockquote>and would reduce her children's allowance due to minor mishaps</blockquote> | |||
| ::Or | |||
| == Semi-protected edit request on 15 March 2017 == | |||
| ::<blockquote>and would reduce extravagances for her children over minor mishaps</blockquote> | |||
| ::I'm a native English speaker and have never heard the term pocket money used in place of allowance. I certainly understand why it would be used but there has to be a less confusing way to word this sentence. ] (]) 12:08, 27 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| {{edit semi-protected|Cary Grant|answered=yes}} | |||
| :::Even if we keep “pocket money” (which, although not that common, is certainly a term I have heard), would it be more clear if the sentence read “and would reduce his pocket money for minor mishaps”? Missing the possessive pronoun makes it more confusing, I think. ] (]) 13:13, 27 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| His middle name was not Alexander but Alec...see birth certificate http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl ] (]) 15:04, 15 March 2017 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I'm a native speaker of English as it's practised in the UK, and I can tell you, ''pocket money'' is the usual idiom for a child's permitted ration of spending money from their parents. The word ''allowance'' is still considered an Americanism and alien to UK usage. | |||
| ::::] (]) 03:23, 30 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :{{replyto|Lexmonkey47}} Do you have a link to the birth certificate? ''''']]]''''' 17:59, 15 March 2017 (UTC) | |||
| ::I don't see a birth certificate there, but I do see what looks like a scanned copy of an official list of births (), and it does say "Alec". However, we do have a that says "Some sources state his middle name to be Alec, but it is generally accepted to be Alexander." That source doesn't say exactly where it got that information. A prior 2006/2007 discussion recorded at ] asserted that "Both his 1904 birth certificate and his 1920 passenger list to the US report his name as Archibald Alec Leach", so the article was changed to say "Alec" in 2007. —] (]) 19:11, 15 March 2017 (UTC) | |||
| :::{{done}} Please also see a (from ), which also supports "Alec". I haven't yet found the 1920 passenger list, and invite others to look for it. —] (]) 16:58, 17 March 2017 (UTC) | |||
| :::There isn't any possible doubt that <u>legally</u> his name was Archibald <u>Alec</u> Leach. Whether it was Grant himself who affected it at a later stage or other people merely making the assumption after the fact, the carygrant.net claim that "it is generally accepted to be Alexander" is pretty worthless. ] (]) 18:04, 17 March 2017 (UTC) | |||
| Please see . ] (]) 18:19, 17 March 2017 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 18:49, 2 January 2025
| Skip to table of contents |
 | This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
 | Cary Grant has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. Review: June 15, 2016. (Reviewed version). |
| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Cary Grant article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
|
| Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6Auto-archiving period: 2 months  |
| This  level-4 vital article is rated GA-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 | This article was created or improved during the "The 20,000 Challenge: UK and Ireland", which started on 20 August 2016 and is still open. You can help! |  |
 | Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
Politics
I also added a brief section on Grant's political views, noting he was not an overtly political figure by his own admission but did make the 1976 GOP appearance and occassionally commented on events
==
Cary Grant's accent
Grant's accent British with a try for America which comes out Beautifully but British. 2601:243:812:9640:A46B:118A:63C:FD9 (talk) 14:41, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
- Sorry, your point being…? – AndyFielding (talk) 06:57, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
"British" is pretty vague and misleading. There's quite a bit of cockney in Grant's accent. TheScotch (talk) 13:25, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
Excessively long lede
It seems common for WP's celebrity articles to have ledes that run away with themselves like this, no doubt from fan enthusiasm. However, a successful lede is an introduction to an article, usually a single paragraph summarizing its major points and encouraging people to read on—not something like this, which competes with the article in its level of detail. Can we do something about it? – AndyFielding (talk) 07:05, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
- Fan enthusiasm?? It is pretty concise for such a prominent actor, nothing wrong with the length, it needs to be reasonable to summarize the whole article. It's 464 words, WP:Lead recommends 250-400 words for featured articles. And this isn't. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:19, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
Trouble understanding, perhaps a British idiom?
What does this mean?
and would reduce pocket money for minor mishaps.
Reduce makes less. Pocket money is small amount of loose bills and coins. Minor mishaps are usually insignificant mistakes or accidents. Putting it all together leaves me confused. His mother gave away/spent loose change when minor accidents happened? Mopenstein (talk) 11:39, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- Pocket money is a British term for an allowance given to kids by their parents. I guess we need to leave it like it is because of engvar. Unless you want to elaborate somehow. RegentsPark (comment) 17:32, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for clearing it up. Is allowance more universally understood?
and would reduce her children's allowance due to minor mishaps
- Or
and would reduce extravagances for her children over minor mishaps
- I'm a native English speaker and have never heard the term pocket money used in place of allowance. I certainly understand why it would be used but there has to be a less confusing way to word this sentence. Mopenstein (talk) 12:08, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Even if we keep “pocket money” (which, although not that common, is certainly a term I have heard), would it be more clear if the sentence read “and would reduce his pocket money for minor mishaps”? Missing the possessive pronoun makes it more confusing, I think. Rcarter555 (talk) 13:13, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'm a native speaker of English as it's practised in the UK, and I can tell you, pocket money is the usual idiom for a child's permitted ration of spending money from their parents. The word allowance is still considered an Americanism and alien to UK usage.
- Nuttyskin (talk) 03:23, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
- Even if we keep “pocket money” (which, although not that common, is certainly a term I have heard), would it be more clear if the sentence read “and would reduce his pocket money for minor mishaps”? Missing the possessive pronoun makes it more confusing, I think. Rcarter555 (talk) 13:13, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Misplaced Pages articles that use American English
- Misplaced Pages good articles
- Media and drama good articles
- GA-Class level-4 vital articles
- Misplaced Pages level-4 vital articles in People
- GA-Class vital articles in People
- GA-Class biography articles
- GA-Class biography (actors and filmmakers) articles
- Top-importance biography (actors and filmmakers) articles
- Actors and filmmakers work group articles
- WikiProject Biography articles
- GA-Class Bristol articles
- High-importance Bristol articles
- WikiProject Bristol articles
- GA-Class Theatre articles
- Mid-importance Theatre articles
- WikiProject Theatre articles
- GA-Class United States articles
- Low-importance United States articles
- GA-Class United States articles of Low-importance
- WikiProject United States articles
- GA-Class LGBTQ+ studies articles
- WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies articles
- Articles created or improved during WikiProject Europe's 10,000 Challenge