| Revision as of 15:10, 29 September 2006 editPakkaPunekar (talk | contribs)146 edits →{{User|Hkelkar}}← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 17:59, 13 August 2024 edit undoNewyorkbrad (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators45,486 edits update to remove reference to RfCs, as user-conduct RfCs were discontinued several years ago | ||
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| <!-- Please remove/add HTML comments around {{adminbacklog}}. --> | |||
| {{Misplaced Pages:Personal attack intervention noticeboard/Header}} | |||
| :'''This process has been discontinued per ].''' | |||
| == New reports == | |||
| <!-- | |||
| Admins and editors: When the list is empty, please replace the placeholder * ''none currently listed'' | |||
| --> | |||
| The personal attack intervention noticeboard (PAIN), created on ] ], was intended as a counterpart to ]. A person with complaints over ] could, after giving warnings, report a personal attacker on this page. | |||
| ==={{User|Hkelkar}}=== | |||
| Unfortunately, the noticeboard generated a considerable amount of controversy. While ] is usually a clear cut case, and administrator intervention (i.e. blocking) is usually uncontroversial, determining whether a comment is a personal attack, incivil, or just simply blunt and frank, can be quite ]. That led to a lot of arguments, flame wars, tit-for-tat disputes and ] on this page. Even after several warnings as well as changes to the header designed to instruct users on how to use this page, this noticeboard continued to deteriorate. Due to this deterioration as well as some particularly poor exchanges in December 2006, the entire page was ], with the result that the noticeboard was closed on {{#formatdate:10 January 2007}}. | |||
| This user is constantly changing the disputed texts. Even though the status is disputed. ], ]. | |||
| Always thretening of action without giving proper references having healthy arguments ]. | |||
| Blaming me as uncivil and attacker, which you can see here I have never done.]. Hence I request you to take corrective action against this user asking to be more civil to others and accpet other POV and work towards NPOV rather that getting into person attacks/threats etc. | |||
| The closure of this noticeboard does not mean that personal attacks are tolerated; they should never be. It simply means that complaints over personal attacks are moved to different, and more appropriate venues such as the ], ] or, as a last resort, ]. | |||
| This is his latest comment on my talk: | |||
| ===Procedure=== | |||
| ::And you, sir are a fake Buddhist with a hateful and violent agenda against Hindus. You clearly care nothing for peace or goodwill but want to defame and denigrate 900 million people to suit your agenda. You need to get a blog to vent your sick mental disease. Misplaced Pages is no place for trolls.Hkelkar 23:12, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ] | |||
| ] | |||
| Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Bodhidhamma" | |||
| ] | |||
| --] 23:17, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :I find Bodhidhamma's statements to be quite misleading, considering '''Bodhidhamma has engaged in a large number of personal attacks''' as well. Bodhidhamma has insulted Hindu users many times (this isnt his PAIN case, so I will lay off on the citing). Hkelkar's statements have come in response to things like this , and my personal favorite .] <font color = "blue"><sub>]</sub></font> 00:10, 29 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::While I'll admit that I lost my cool for a while there, one must bear in mind that Bodhidharma has been constantly and incessantly engaging in personal attacks and incivility against many users like myself, ] and ]. This is the first time that I lost it on wikipedia, largely due to the fact that this attacker continues his incivility and no actions result from admins.Plz see bodhidharma's contribs history and his attitude on ] for his history.] 00:37, 29 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :::What about and how is it bogus as declared by you and your alleged sock ].<span style="border: 1px solid">]</span>|] 09:00, 29 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :: Please see the talk pages of ] , ] ,] and let the truth speak for itself. Even though I deny the accusation that I hurt ] by any ways, I apologise him and also this is untrue that I angered him. --] 15:10, 29 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ==={{User|Doxmyth}}=== | |||
| Constantly reverts edits to the ] page and ] page. He repeatedly tries to link to his own web site, which is completely off-topic. Harasses me constantly by leaving messages on my TALK page, despite repeated requests by me for him to cease and desist. Now he is using this page to libel me with completely unfounded statements and personal attacks. He views any disagreement with him as an attack. Refuses to play by Wiki rules then blames me for holding him to task. Falsely claims I'm using other names as sockpuppets. Claims ] is an admin, when he/she is merely an editor. ] 23:27, 26 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ==Open reports== | |||
| <!-- Place reports below this line only after there has been reply to the report --> | |||
| ==={{User|Naziakhanum}}=== | |||
| :This user has repeatedly made personal attacks against myself on ]. While my comments there have been on content, not on contributor (per wikipedia policy), his comments have been directed against me personally, rather than on the content of edits, making it a personal attack. I had warned him against this before , but he has persisted. | |||
| His attacks are summarized below: | |||
| http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3ATipu_Sultan&diff=77694207&oldid=77688747 | |||
| In particular, the statement: | |||
| {{cquote|User:Hkelkar is himself trying to colour the article with his own religious/nationalist fundamentalism. And every intelligent person viewing the article can see that ] wants to run the article on his ideologies. we should request the administrator to ban the user.}} | |||
| Plus, ], whom I believe is a sock of the user Naiakhanum, made a bogus npa warning against me,which is, in on itself, a personal attack. | |||
| http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3ATipu_Sultan&diff=77719483&oldid=77694207 | |||
| ] 23:27, 25 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :Honestly, I think your warnings to him are sufficient in this case. If he starts up again, let us know. --]<sup>]</sup> 12:01, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :::Woohokitty you are wrong here look how Hkelkar himself attacks on the same page .I blv only mistake committed was it was not pasted on Hkelkar's page.<span style="border: 1px solid">]</span>|] 12:12, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I agree with your assessment. Thank you for your attention.] 12:38, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :::See below for repeated personal attacks from this user on me and other users.] 12:38, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :I'm afraid that, despite warnings he continues personal attacks ] 21:37, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ==={{User|Ikonoblast}}=== | |||
| Myself and another user ] have been involved with a content dispute with this user over ] which I felt was vandalism on his part as he has been putting false citations that failed verification. However, I am prepared to recognize the fact that third parties might perceive this as a content dispute so refrained from warning him of vandalism. He, in turn put bogus vandalism/npa warning tags on my talk page , which I believe is a personal attack. I would warn him with npa template but he has been known to engage in various intimidation tactics against me before when I had warned him of such infractions (for which he got blocked/warned). He has been blocked for edit-warring and persistent incivility on this and other articles before.Please do intervene before this matter goes out of hand. He has been admonished by an admin not to make personal attacks, which he has just violated. The admonishment is , the admonishment is reproduced from the talk page below: | |||
| <blockquote> | |||
| OK, so: (1) please stop edit warring (both of you); (2) please stop labelling each others edits as vandalism; this is a content dispute; (3) please stop the vandalsim warnings, which are abusive. Since Ikon was validly blocked for 3RR, "now known among all wikipedians" for bogus reporting is obvious nonsense and is getting close to a personal attack William M. Connolley 15:28, 26 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| </blockquote> | |||
| Thanks.] 11:02, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :::Plz look into the recent contribution history of both the users involved, that will speak of itself.He has made yet another false NPA case(numerous now if you count).He has already misled many admins by making such cases on ANB.PLZ check all diffs b4 reaching onclusions.The quote above is in wrong context as it relates to ] where these two Gamesmasterg and Hkelkar were rv warring,admin EL_C had then intervened and arranged the article according to what I proposed.Since then both have started disruption on other articles(though gamesmasterg is cooler and can be pardoned) ,their recent target has been ].Even though I had not rmvd any comment or contribution by others,this person ] simply rv entie article and used abusive v summary when warned against it.<span style="border: 1px solid">]</span>|] 11:12, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Might want to take that up with El_c. On his talk page the admins (El_c is also an admin) will notice a good faith effort on El_c's part to mediate the issue and plus El_c has also warned ikonoblast against personal attacks and incivility (after a block given to ikonoblast by the same admin see ikonoblast's blovk log). Plus, also see ikonoblasts block log as earlier user {{User|Holywarrior}} for blocks due to edit warring, personal attacks, tendentious editing and incivility.] 12:41, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :::Why not let them see, all were results of bogus reporting by you and so I was unblocked (none of the blocks was defended by admins),last block i rcvd was when I was actually inactive,cd not even experience that ,but I blv this user:Hkelkar needs a final block who has somehow escaped sockpuppetry charges by his diversionary traits.Infact he has been suspected sockpuppet of ] whom i suspect had logged in as ] during his blocks. I feel these three need to be chekered too.<span style="border: 1px solid">]</span>|] 12:48, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :::Oh, that old accusation again. I do believe it was thrown out for the baseless nonsense it really was.Plus, the above post is precisely the kind of intimidation tactics I was talking about. He seems to go around wikipedia dictating policy to everyone, including admins who he attacks as "dozy".] 13:13, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :::My dear frnd it is not me who is so fond of visiting ANB so how come I intimidate you or anyone.BTW I was blocked when densaguo thing happened.So it is proper time to go for ].<span style="border: 1px solid">]</span>|] 13:18, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ==={{User|MookiesDad}}=== | |||
| Numerous and repeated instances of abusive language, personal attacks, civility violations, ''assume good faith'' violations at ] and ], with more acute examples at ]. The latter is the ''Discussion'' link to ], created by MookiesDad to link from my own user name (in the manner normally used to link to my own User Page): see History page, ]. Misuse of terms like ''vandalism'' despite several corrections by admin ]. Undiscussed amd unlabeled article reverts under name ]. See also some of his ''edit summary'' language. Unwilling to discuss content issues, characterizes my stated reasons as "specious". With respect to both these articles, ] has a lengthy history of conduct of this kind, anonymously and via sock-puppets. The mandatory template notification was posted to ] and to ], eliciting a dismissive response. (Note that the content issue re these two articles was posted on RfC, by me--"PAIN" was not my first resort.) Given his lengthy history, I have little hope that this user will take seriously further discussion with me. These pages will show that I have made a good many attempts to move the ''content'' discussion forward: there is little more to be said, and he has stated ''explicitly'' that he intends to continue reverting my edits (noting that as a retiree he has plenty of time to do so). ] 00:22, 26 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :As I'm drawing attention to the gentleman's history, note that ''today'' ] deleted about 99% of ], which includes several examples of his conduct (as "User:69.205.13.193"). He also states his dismissive, defiant attitude toward Wiki policies and guidelines. This is why I'm skeptical of further efforts aimed at his rehabilitation. ] 01:10, 26 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :: Doxmyth is very confused. I reverted many of his edits which were contary to WIKI policies. He views any disagreement with him as an attack. He constantly tries to promote his web site and I have repeatedly deleted references to that site. All-in-all, a very disturbed individual.] 23:18, 26 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :I must second {{User|Doxmyth}}'s account of the state of affairs. {{User|MookiesDad}} has made repeated personal attacks on Doxmyth, and in fact, cannot even refrain from doing so here ("All-in-all, a very disturbed individual".) A sample of what is more typical of what I have seen from MookiesDad is : "That presupposes you have an actual contribution to make, which you don't seem to have (if you do, you haven't exhibited it yet). As far as I can see, you've vandalized the list of TS Sr. titles, presented uncited speculation as fact and promoted your own off-topic web site. Why do I consider your "site" off-topic - because it doesn't supply any information on any of the various series, it's just your monumental ego trip. Every reviewer of your "fiction" has declared it poor and juvenile. Get it? NOBODY LIKES IT! It's not relevant to the Tom Swift page of Wiki. I will remove your link and "Predecessors" paragraph any time you post it. I'm retired and have nothing but time on my hands and I dislike whining crybabies." | |||
| :While Doxmyth may be still learning the rules of Misplaced Pages, he seems quite willing to learn them, whereas with MookiesDad, he seems quite resistant to even considering the possibility that the rules might not be 100% behind what he wants to do. An example is his reaction to being informed that "vandalism" only describes changes that make their bad-faith nature absolutely explicit : "The person in question has repeatedly made non-NPOV and irrelevant additions to the ] article in addition to making wholesale deletetions of the work of others, even after being asked to cease and desist several times. If that isn't vandalism, I don't know what is." The irony, of course, is that MookiesDad had by this time made "wholesale deletions of the work of others" numerous times, erroneously calling that work "vandalism" because he considered it "non-NPOV and irrelevant". Another example of MookiesDad's belligerent attitude is when he insists on using a header style that, it has been pointed out to him, is contrary to ]: "::: On headers - I quote from Wiki guidlines "Headings are hierarchical, so you '''should''' start with == Header == and follow it with === Subheader ===, ==== Subsubheader ====, and so forth. The 'second-level' == Header == is overly large in some browsers, but that can be fixed for individual viewers with a style sheet more easily than a nonhierarchical article structure can be fixed (see help:User style)." Please note the word "should" is used not "must". Frankly I think using bold headers under the fainter but larger top level header makes the article harder to read. If you have any evidence that the way I set up the headers is a violation of any Wiki rule instead of your personal opinion, I'd sure like to see it. ] 02:16, 10 September 2006 (UTC)" MookiesDad is able to ''quote'' a very clearly written Misplaced Pages style guideline ''complete'' with the reason ''why'' that style guideline is in place and yet the conclusion he draws from it is that he is entitled to enforce his own nonstandard structure on the article, simply because the guideline that describes the structure that ''every article is to use'' is phrased as an agreement to be cooperated with, rather than a dictatorial edict. -- ] 00:51, 27 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :: ] recently compared ] to Hitler and threatened him because he wasn't allowed to promote his fan fiction on MookiesDad's Tom Swift Yahoo fan group. Whenever he doesn't get his way on this he resorts to whimpering, self-pitying protestations of unfairness, censorship and foul play and seeks to elicit sympathy from others. | |||
| ::: I've noticed this too. Another thing is that Doxmyth uses so many aliases that he sometimes forgets who he is posting as, like on tinyurl.com/mlvkh where he posted as Scott Dickerson and wrote: "Mike, are you saying it wasn't Charlie & Scott who destroyed Ipp's group?" Most people don't refer to themselves by their own first name. I have to concur with MookiesDad and Pak434. This dude is a very disturbed individual. DocSimpson {{spa|DocSimpson}} | |||
| I am very concerned that this user has a notice on his page which states he wishes death to all vandals. It probably was meant harmlessly, but stating on Misplaced Pages that you wish death to another group of users, even vandals, could be seen as a Death Threat. -] 07:45, 27 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :Yep. And I don't like that he keeps removing warnings. --]<sup>]</sup> 00:48, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| Please note that the comment paragraph above, using the word "Hitler," is unsigned. "History" shows that it was posted by ], a suspected sock of ]: see ]. Note that the quote of the alleged "Hitler" remark bears no Wiki link or referent. It appears to be unconnected to Misplaced Pages. The insertion following, by "Doc Simpson", includes an allegation that is (a) false, and (b) unconnected to Wiki. "Doc Simpson" is a character from the Tom Swift Jr. series. Someone may care to use Wiki's resources to trace and exhibit the aliases, ''including any believed connected to me''. ] 01:57, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :: The fact that ] "resorts to whimpering, self-pitying protestations of unfairness, censorship and foul play and seeks to elicit sympathy from others" whenever he isn't allowed to promote his fan fiction site in various forums is relevant in that this is exactly what is now happening here. The fact that ] made the "Hitler"' remark about ] in another forum, MookiesDad's Tom Swift Yahoo fan group, and under another identity, nbfanc, that he uses to promote his fan fiction, is relevant because this clash prompted his vendetta against ] here. Doxmyth crying about incivility when his victim gets fed up with his harassment and cyber stalking and becomes angry is pathetic. He has done this before with others under various identities, and over the same topic, and is at it again. ] 09:25, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::: There is a link to the post mentioned in the comment by ] so Doxmyth's claim that it is false boggles the mind. ] 09:25, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::::DocSimpson posted not only a link to a forum post made by Doxmyth, but a specific allegation of Doxmyth having a particular deceptive intent behind that forum post. If any particular mind finds itself "boggled" that the forum post might be real but DocSimpson's interpretation of it might be false, that sheds light on the limitations of that mind, rather than proves anything about Doxmyth. -- ] 18:32, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :And should not allegations about ] appear under the PAIN posting concerning that individual, presently in New Reports? ] 01:57, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::In a perfect situation, yes, but this works too. --]<sup>]</sup> 11:56, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ==={{User|Lordkazan}}=== | |||
| User has made repeated personal attacks against myself and others, and has previously been blocked for it. In spite of this, he continues: | |||
| "I haven't the patience for rabid pov-pushers like you and Dasondas today. ... I give your position equal representation, even though I consider it a reprehensible violation of human rights for which you should be tried and convicted and sentanced most severely." | |||
| ] 18:22, 26 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :Note: . ] 18:27, 26 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| This report is invalid. | |||
| I can support the fact that he is a pov-pusher with evidence (wikipedia diffs). I am a pov-person, but i don't push my pov into articles, he ADMITTED he intented to do so. The truth is not a personal attack. | |||
| Stating my opinion on a specific action does not constitute a personal attack - i am stating my opinion of an ACTION not the PERSON. Furthermore I was doing so the clarify that DESPITE my opinion of his action I give his opinion equal time in the article. My comment was in reply to his following comment, which included clear admission of intent to edit in bad faith, and an argumentum ad antiquitatem to support that behavior. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3ACircumcision&diff=77915610&oldid=77876639 | |||
| I removed your warning in compliance with the fact that an invalid warning constitutes a personal attack, and that the policy about removing warnings specifically only applies to VALID warnings. ] 18:36, 26 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| : I see you have readded the invalid warning template. This is a personal attack on me, the truth (as admitted by the user I was speaking to), and denouncing an ACTION do not constitute a personal attack. I should issue you an NPA warning since posting false warnings on other users pages is vandalism/personal attack - however I will not get into an revert war/escalating warning template war with you. This report is invalid and when that is acknowleged by an admin I will be able to remove your invalid warning from my page. ] 18:47, 26 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| : Furthermore i see your false claim that I was blocked for personal attacks against YOU - i was blocked for a personal attack agaisnt someone who vandalized my userpage, a personal attack i Posted on my user page. Telling a vandal what they can do with themself on the user-space page their vandalized is hardly worthy of note: block log: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Lordkazan the edit that instigated that http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User%3ALordkazan&diff=73942909&oldid=73334857 | |||
| : i recommend you worry about your own block log before you worry about me being blocked once for 24 hours for something totally unrelated to this report. ] 18:59, 26 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| : ] just vandalized ] claiming to be reverting personal attacks - condemnation of an ACTION is clearly not a personal attack as clearly stated by ] - the other was borderline, but I can support it as true with wikipedia history. The truth can be uncivil though so, for the sake of harmony, I did not revert your removal of the statement refering to you as a POV-pusher. ] 19:06, 26 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::The "vandalism" to which you refer is . | |||
| ::As for the first, I would be most interested to see diffs showing that both Dasondas and myself suffer from rabies, just as I would be interested in seeing objective proof (as opposed to your own ]) of your assertion that we are pov-pushers. As for the second, your condemnation was in fact of another editor's views (or more precisely, 'position'), for holding which you felt he should be 'tried and convicted and sentanced most severely' . Had you restricted yourself to commenting on actions relevant to Misplaced Pages, we would doubtless not be here. ] 19:14, 26 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::: His position does, and has, translated into actions - i am condeming those actions - obviously just holding an opinion is not a human rights violation, acting on it can be. Your interpretation of "rabid" is pedantic and manipulative - you know very well what I meant by that adjective, and as for evidence - here is and your edit history and the opinion of many other editors is proof enough - and the fact that the article's medical section is completely pro-circumcision biased. ] 19:19, 26 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::: oh... don't forget where you were found ] ] 19:27, 26 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Please don't misrepresent ArbCom decisions. Perhaps you wish that were the case, but in fact that page mentions me twice: once in reference to unfortunate edit wars, and once to remind me to re-read NPOV policy (which I have done). Three users (initials W, D, and R) were specifically named as having made non-NPOV edits, but I was not among them. ] 19:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :::::I have left a warning on the user's page to remember to ] and to not be so aggressive towards other users. If he continues, I will block him. <font color="DarkGreen">]</font><sup>]</sup> 19:50, 26 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| The user in question, ], has a self-avowed detest for circumcision in any form, and to me it appears from all of his edits and comments that he has taken it upon himself in wikipedia to recast all circumcision-related articles to paint the procedure in as negative a light as possible, regardless of the peer reviewed documentation and statements of leading medical organizations. ] is a primary editor of the ] articles, and has done excellent work in bringing scholarly publications to the article. As one whoo is in the process of checking every citation listed, if possible, and ensuring it is accurately reflected in the article, I can say that I believe that due to Jake's work, both sides are fairly represented in a neutral way, by bringing the articles and sources. ], on the other hand, tries to recast the text, bring sources that are not as reputable or areon-offs, and otherwise push his point that this should be made illegal, all while claiming that he is interested in ]. He resorts to attacking editors and belittling those who disagree, and I must admit surprise at Jake's patience at the abuse he has received from LK. I think LK needs to be watched closely, and in my opinion, has exhausted much of the community's patience. -- ] 14:18, 27 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| : And you would be 100% absolutely dead wrong. '''I keep my opinion on talk pages''' - I only detest NON-VOLUNTARY non-theraputic circumcision. You are a biased editor on this subject, as biased as I am - but unlike myself you have a doulbe standard - you think only people on your side of the argument can be non-biased editors. You also seem to think that the articles in question currently meet NPOV standards - the medical section of ] absolutely does not meet NPOV standards as it completely lacks all information on the long term drawbacks of circumcision, but touts every dubious benefit (most of which can be gained elsewhere, and all are statistically insignificant if valid at all). '''All medical information should be presented, right now only pro-circ information is.'''. | |||
| : Jake occasionally makes good edits and I will back him up one those - sometimes he makes good edits for reasons i consider wrong, but i still back him up on those edits because they were good edits. His method of NPOV introduction is to intimidate users into not adding information he disagrees with - users like me, who have the courteousy to try and go to the talk page first ('''how many edits have i made to ]? 2, maybe 3? ''' atleast 1 of which was after building consensus). '''Jakew has been warned by ArbCom in the past for violation of NPOV policy'''. | |||
| : You are extremely biased in Jakew's favor - and '''after your little incident of falsely accusing me of placing SPA tags''' you should proceed with caution. | |||
| : you need to learn to seperate my opinion content on talk pages from my actual edits | |||
| : As for ''"bring sources that are not as reputable"'', in your opinion and Jakew's opinion - your bare assertions mean nothing though. You trumpet "your" peer reviewed studies unendingly and plug your ears to criticism of them no matter how valid it is, and when someone else cites a peer reviewed study you (avi somewhat and Jakew especially) refuse to acknowledge it's validity. For jakew so much as doing ALGEBRA (density of nerves per surface area*surface area) on the findings of another study or two is grounds to say "that's not what the citation says!". ] 17:52, 27 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Please see ]. That is considered original synthesis and not allowed. It would behoove you to understand the principles you are claimimg before you claim them. -- ] 18:31, 27 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::::: It's not ] when it's a peer-reviewed paper that's doing the algebra based upon another peer-reviewed papers findings. ] 18:38, 27 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::A somewhat hypothetical point. This page is for discussing user conduct, anyway, not content disputes elsewhere. ] 19:01, 27 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::I'll ignore most of your incivil accusations in the hope that somebody will take action about your ongoing behaviour in spite of warnings (which also continues ). I will, however, point out again - as I have above - that your claim that I "been warned by ArbCom in the past for violation of NPOV policy" is false. And once again, I ask you to stop misrepresenting ArbCom decisions - I don't appreciate it, and I doubt that the present ArbCom will take too kindly to it. ] 18:10, 27 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::: I'm presenting it as it was presented to my by a person who was party to making the decision. ] 18:38, 27 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::::If you say so. For all I know, somebody may have told you privately that I was warned not to eat cucumber sandwiches. Regardless, what is actually binding is the decision in the above link, and I'll thank you not to misrepresent it. ] 19:01, 27 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::::: I'm not misrepresenting it - they told you to go read WP:NPOV again, which implicitly says that you had been violating it. Don't hide behind the letter of the ruling to ignore the meaning of the ruling - that's Wikilawyering ] 21:09, 27 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::It would take a special type of fool to wikilawyer over an ArbCom ruling. I am not such a fool. Please make sure that in future you refer to what was actually said, not your interpretation thereof. ] 21:19, 27 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| Interesting diff by user: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User:Lordkazan&curid=3048332&diff=78365237&oldid=77764492 -- ] 04:27, 29 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ==={{User|Clossius}}=== | |||
| I have met this user only twice: first on ], and now on ]. Regarding the article ], we have had an edit dispute, on the course of which ] has repeatedly used offensive language on me as 'arguments'. My edits to ] (have been approved by other users) are regarded by ] as , , etc. Even worse, when adding a noticeaboard entry for the article, he had used it as a vehicle for his one-side accusations: . | |||
| I've warned him with tags, but he has removed these, accusing me of --] - ] 06:40, 25 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :I will not put up ca counter-notice against ] here myself, but rather just respond (as it is the same case), yet I should point out that I see myself as the victim, rather than the aggressor, and I think that Constanz should be stopped doing so. I think the offensive language ''ad personam'' comes from ], rather than from myself. My honest belief is indeed that he uses the Estonian politics articles - not only but certainly also - to soapbox his own political beliefs (which I often do not disagree with in substance, and where he is very knowledgeable as regards the fact), but that is not the point). I think his language has been much more offensive, going so far as to imply I'm a Nazi supporter; I should also point out that I have repeatedly tried to work with him on a constructive version of these articles, which he has always turned down. | |||
| :On the details (for which I need no links because those by Constanz are fine): | |||
| :#The edits on Rüütel that have been "approved" by other editors (which just means they have written something after his changes, while not reverting the latter) have come '''after''' Constanz had actually mended his ways to some extent and had been more careful on the text (no doubt also contributing to it constructively). | |||
| :#With "a form of vandalism" I meant (and said that I meant) that, when he reverted my changes to his writing, he also removed labels, reinserted duplication (when the election was, e.g.), and removed update information. | |||
| :#I would stand by the "grandstanding and soapboxing" remark; I think that Constanz' edits - as proven by his edit summaries, which are often reserved for personal remarks - are motivated by special political proclivities (those listed on his user page), and so he has very strong opinions here and an axe to grind. I am not sure an editor should edit the entry for a politician whom he calls "this appalling remnant of a totalitarian regime" and "the old commie funcionary appearantly seeking life presidency", but if he does, he should not object of being slightly modified. | |||
| :#The warning tag was IMHO meant as harrassment, especially as I had ''previously'' declared that I did not want to continue talking to this editor (which means, nothing that could even be interpreted as personal attacks). It was always accompanied by offensive edit summaries as well. I think it is my right to do this, as it came from another user and was clearly done out of spite. | |||
| :In sum, I realize that one easily sees himself as the victim, but if I try to objectivize here (not easy, admittedly), I still think that all this is an attempt at harrassment by Constanz. I would just like to see this personal vendetta cease; I have no issue with Constanz other than his personal attacks on me, and I would just like to continue editing Misplaced Pages in peace (if possible, also in the field of Estonian politics), without being personally insulted all the time. ] 07:05, 25 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :::All in all, ] wrote here ''thrice'' as much as I did, but failed he to give any diffs to support his thesis of me having ''assaulted '''him''' personally'' on ].. Here we should rely on facts, not on interpretations by the people involved. My level of contributions can be evaluated as what I've inserted to ], Clossius has concentrated more on offensive language criticism on ] and ]. --] - ] 07:44, 25 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I admit I am not as good at Wikilawyering, but I don't think diffs are necessary, because ] is short enough and quite clear, and because the diffs given by ] are basically fine anyway. As regards ], this is a discussion '''from April''', to which Constanz has gone back now in order to attack me; I only accidentally saw this and responded just twice, first by refusing his implication of Nazi leanings, and second to say that I would not want to discuss with him anymore, which I still don't. It's just very hard if you find harrassment every time you open your account, especially as he has opened several battlefields here. Let me reiterate that nothing would please me more if Constanz and I could just part ways and not say anything to each other anymore at all, including if our ways would cross accidentally on some factual matter. I just would find it sad to quit Misplaced Pages just because of one hostile antagonist.] 08:10, 25 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Unlike you, I haven't been following my current opponent's contributions list, so as to find smth for support/'harassment'. Indeed, to-day I tried to clarify my previous comments on ], for it'll be looked upon anyway. Feel free to present finally some ] material to support your sentiments over the political party concerned.--] - ] 08:23, 25 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::I haven't checked his list, yet Constanz has even posted links to previous disputes of mine (which is fine of course). And as I said, I will most certainly desist from working anymore on any articles or discussion pages in which he is involved, let alone take issue with him, before either the matter is solved in Misplaced Pages conflict resolution or before Constanz ceases his attempts to draw me into discussions (which he then interprets as attacks) - because I feel decidedly unfree to add anything substantial anymore. This is why he has also done more on Rüütel recently; I have just quit. I think we really should let the matter rest until the conflict is solved one way or the other. ] 08:40, 25 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::''I think that Constanz should be stopped doing so'' - I can't understand what I should be prevented from doing - contributing to ] or answering to Clossius' comments on the alleged 'slander' and soapboxing' I've inserted into the article?--] - ] 08:30, 25 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::Harrassing me. You can naturally continue editing ], especially if it is constructive and unbiased, as your last edits were. But on a personal level, if you cease any personal attacks, innuendos, or insinuations on any which page, I will be very happy, as I said many times, to completely part ways, and we both can do our editing wherever we see fit. ] 08:40, 25 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Sure, I'd be more than happy if I saw you once again ''contributing'' to articles, rather than having one-party dispute over my alleged 'bias' and . I'll to continue my edits to ], I ''won't'' change anything allegedly ''biased'' stuff by merely your request, but look forward to other people's clear and moderate suggestions, what to do in order to remove POV-tag as a whole.] - ] 08:50, 25 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::So, is it a deal then? We quit saying '''anything''' ''about'' each other on the various talk pages etc., and start focussing again on editing? I am perfectly willing to leave ] and the discussion to yourself and other editors, and I agree that dealing with the POV-label there (which you btw put very correctly to the segment, rather than the article) should be left, as you suggest, to other editors.] 08:55, 25 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::Exactly my point - turn to editing, consensus has not been against me on ] article, we won't of course forget personal assaults listed ], I'd already learnt from ], that it's better to formulate thesis clearly, impassionately and to prefer ] to self-interpretations. Handle like I've done - start editing articles and let neutral observers decide stuff disputed here.--] - ] 09:05, 25 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::That is not quite what I said ;-), but if I may, I'll take that for an "ok". ] | |||
| I have looked at the edits above, and the articles in question. First, I am glad to see that you are still talking and seemed to have reached a civil agreement amongst each other above. Second, being a neutral observer who has reviewed only random parts of this agreement, it seems to me you have both commited some errors and then overreacted a little. Nonetheless I think you both mean well; my suggestion would be certainly in line with your own conclusion about avoiding '']'' attacks. Then I'd suggest you try to reach a compromise version in the wording and content of disputed articles; try to remember that compromise is often defined as the solution were both parties are equally unhappy :) Instead of editing articles themselves, you may want to copy the disputed parts to talk and edit it there until you think the version is acceptable (thus there will be no reverts and irritating edit summaries in main article history).--<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</span></sub> 16:52, 25 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ==={{User|Dhammafriend}}=== | |||
| He has repeatedly characterized my ethnic/religious affiliations in a pejorative manner. First, he wrongly accused me of being an upper-caste Hindu and evoked several ] and ] canards against me . I warned him . Then, he made some borderline ] remarks concerning my Jewishness (see bottom). I do not believe that my ethnic/religious affiliation is relevant to my edits on wikipedia, so I believe that these are personal attacks and I request that they be handled accordingly.] 16:21, 22 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::'''Update''': He has made another ethnic characterization against admins . In particular note the following statement: | |||
| {{cquote|Wiki Administrators except ] and ] ] please take note of this.}}.This user continues to make these types of characterizations which are attacks on people and are detrimental to discussion on wikipedia.] 16:27, 22 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :I think at least some of this is a misunderstanding. I left a mild caution to be more careful. I hope that will be enough. ] <sup>]</sup> 19:48, 22 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :I don't think so. The racist and hateful comments keep pouring in and in and in . He has continued to pour in the ], ] remarks.] <font color = "blue"><sub>]</sub></font> 23:05, 22 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :This guy has attacked me, thegreyanomaly multiple times. | |||
| :::User Thegreyanomaly the article "Indian Buddhist Movement" is about Religious movement which is growing in India slowly since last 50 years. If you are anti-Buddhist we certainly don't have any objection about your religion. You can be a Brahmin-Hindu if you are a priest by profession in any temple otherwise you are a Shudra-Hindu because all non-priest i.e. non-Brahmins are SHUDRA in Hindu Religion. In Kali Yuga Hindus have only two Varna as per the religious philosophy of Hindus. If you are from India then you might be knowing that Buddhism in India was totally killed. Some blame Brahmins Or some blame Muslims for that, it is a vast topic of study. I don't want to blame anybody. Hindu Castiesm, Hindu Untouchability and Caste based Graded Inequality became very strong after fall of Buddhism in Indian sub-continent and before British came to India. Education to all non-Brahmins was banned and the rigid Hindu Religious laws made by Brahmins like Manusmriti, VishnuSmriti and other DharmaShastras became the laws to govern the non-Muslim society. | |||
| :::British gave education for all and broke the anti-Human Hindu Laws. After Independence Dr. Ambedkar revived Buddhism in India. He also established "Buddhist Society of India" certainly NOT Navayana Society! So there is no meaning branding the movement as Navayana. Because the founder of India's Buddhist Revival Movement which is certainly against Hindu Casteism and injustice that Hindus are doing since hundreds of years called his movement as Buddhist Movement. Also Dr. Ambedkar said that 'He will convert whole India back to Buddhism' but he was killed just within 6 weeks after his conversion to Buddhism. Some people blamed Brahmins for his death. It is not sure how he died. I dont want to blame anybody. So you can discuss current Buddhist Developments in the article "Indian Buddhist Movement". About Hindu Caste and related things you better write to Hindu Articles Or Caste Related to Articles. If Navayana is a anto-caste publication then you should put that link in Caste Related article. | |||
| :::In India legal system we have Hindus, Muslims, Christens and BUDDHIST as different religion. Expecially our 2001 cencus gives more details about different religions population. We dont have any 'Navayana Buddhist' in whole India neither it is recognized legally anywhere. Officially we have around 1% Buddhists in India. This population unofficially can be 4% also because thousands of people are converting to Buddhism. But lets take official figures. | |||
| :::Caste is a problem of Hindus certainly not the problem of Buddhists. Be a contributor to wikipedia but don't just try to vandalise different articles. Dhammafriend 10:03, 18 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :This one was both on my ] and on ] | |||
| : I responded to him | |||
| :::Umm... I'm an EX-Brahmin who converted to Theravada Buddhism... | |||
| :::I edited Navayāna into the article because in <u>Buddhism in India : Challenging Brahmanism and Caste</u> by Gail Omvedt (This book is incredibly anti-Caste and is pro-Buddhist) I have read Neo-Buddhism being referred to as Navayana, which is is obviously a non-IAST transliteration of navayāna. | |||
| :::"Ambedkar's Buddhism seemingly differs from that of those who accepted by faith, who 'go for refuge' and accept the canon. This This much is clear from its basis: it does not accept in totality the scriptures of the Theravada, the the Mahayana, or the Vajrayana. The question that is then clearly put forth: is a fourth <i>yana</i>, a Navayana, a kind of modernistic Enlightenment version of the Dhamma really possible within the framework of Buddhism?" (8) | |||
| :::The book blatantly says that Ambedkar DESIGNED what has become known as navayāna. | |||
| :::He did not found the Navayana publishing house. I edited in that there is a Navayana publishing house into the article so people would not confuse, navayāna, yāna, and Navayana, the publishing house. | |||
| :::I'm going to put the navayāna comment back into ]. Please do not edit it out again. Navayāna is an accepted name of neo-Buddhism. | |||
| :::Peace, ] | |||
| :That one was on the ] and there is more to his response on that page. Please ban him. He is beyond being disciplined | |||
| :::Buddhist do not have caste neither they believe any former caste like Brahmin,Bhangi ,Scheduled Caste, OBC caste etc. So don't claim false things. I have Buddhist friends in America who can certainly verify your identity. So if want to discuss you can also meet our Buddhist friends in America so don't try to fool wikipedia community. Who gave you ordination as Buddhist? Do you know the process to become a Buddhist? Dhammafriend 10:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :] 23:08, 22 September 2006 (UTC), ] 23:11, 22 September 2006 (UTC), ] 23:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :Unless I am mistaken, he has not posted anything since I left my caution on his talk page. Let's see if that helps. ] <sup>]</sup> 23:22, 22 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :While the complaint is still pending, he just made more ethnic attacks against me. He called me "anti-Buddhist" and characterized my alleged "Caste" by referring to me as a "Brahmin"/"Shudra" (amusingly, I'm not even a Hindu).I am adding diffs to that effect in the PAIN report but I humbly request you to please intervene. His inflammatory comments in the talk page of ] are making it very difficult for us legitimate editors to create a good article. The diffs of his most recent attacks are below: | |||
| http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3AIndian_Buddhist_Movement&diff=77509724&oldid=77417417 | |||
| In particular, the comments from the diff above: | |||
| {{cquote|If kelkar Or all anti-Buddhist people who are unaware of the Present ] can come and understand the status.}} | |||
| {{cquote|] hate is too much in ] ] ] minds}} | |||
| Referring to both me and ] | |||
| and | |||
| {{cquote|Mr.] you are not the first anti-Buddhit person on this planet.}} | |||
| {{cquote|The Language used by u like which planet etc.. shows you are full hate towards ] so debate is a civilised manner}} | |||
| Despite the fact that I have made no attacks against anyone. | |||
| ] 09:37, 24 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::Making bogus allegation citing diffs which does not substantiate your claims are also a sort of attack.Now you are just testing the patience of the community with these bogus allegations.<span style="border: 1px solid">]</span>|] 09:54, 24 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :::Even though it is dhammafreind's NPA I would recommend some action against ] for making ANB a tool of harassing users citing bogus diffs and presenting false cases.Two had been made against me by this user,and it is third now.<span style="border: 1px solid">]</span>|] 10:42, 24 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :::Let the admins reach that decision.An admin has already spoken to Dhammafriend about this before and he has ignored his words. That alone speaks volumes.10:52, 24 September 2006 (UTC){{unsigned|Hkelkar}} | |||
| :::::Yes admins are expected to reach some decision else ,wikipedia will become sort of hell with editors like you.I can't expect you to improve(sorry but assuming good faith is very difficult when facts are loaded against it),even though you were specifically warned against bogus reporting by Dab in my case you have not improved.<span style="border: 1px solid">]</span>|] 11:03, 24 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::Oh really? Where?] 11:10, 24 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::Plus, Very bold to say that you will violate ] on the basis of some vague assertions regarding facts.] 11:10, 24 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :::Wow Go ahead now you are giving live presentation of how you misrepresent rules.] does not ask for assuming good faith when the person has got history of bogus reporting.<span style="border: 1px solid">]</span>|] 11:20, 24 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :::Wow. Now that's what I call circular logic. Using the accusation of "Bogus Reporting" to prove "Bogus reporting".I'm so glad most wikipedians don;t do that, else there'd be chaos ^_^ .] 11:22, 24 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :::No comments per ],arguing with you is like throwing stone into mud.<span style="border: 1px solid">]</span>|] 11:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| Since the incivility has continued and become disruptive, I have blocked Dhammafriend for 24 hours. I caution everyone involved to comment only on content, not other people, and to not respond in kind to any attacks. ] <sup>]</sup> 12:52, 24 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::::==Dhammafriend and Truthlover== | |||
| ::::Dhammafriend (and Truthlover) has completely reverted ] to how it was prior to his/their ban. He/They did not only remove the navayana concept, which he/they question but also all the citations that cleared up citation neccessity's. I have reverted the page to how it was prior. | |||
| ::::] 23:22, 27 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::::It is also important to note that "they" reverted the 'official-style' referencing back to their informal previous citations, they also removed claims of dubious assertions and etc. | |||
| ::::the proof is ], ], ] | |||
| ::::] 23:49, 27 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ==={{User|John_Spikowski}}=== | |||
| John Spikowski constantly personally attacks me and the PanoTools user group | |||
| f.e.: | |||
| . He was recently banded for a 3RR. | |||
| All this happend after the . | |||
| ] listed him yesterday but thought this issue is solved. You will easily find the older attacks like | |||
| and the comment in | |||
| Thx for your help. --] 01:11, 23 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :I left him an {{tl|npa3}}.--] 04:19, 23 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| * He attacked me again on my talk page and made unproper OT statements. . --] 23:07, 25 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *:I've left a final warning. ] 03:34, 26 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| Myself along with several editors including Wuz have had to constantly warn him about off topic conversation and how this can be disruptive and unproductive. I simply don't think he will ever understand the Misplaced Pages guidelines about this subject. This should be watched with him. ''']''' <small>(])</small> 07:29, 26 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ==={{User|AaronS}}=== | |||
| More personal attacks from one who has a history of making attacks. Here is accuses a user of being "dishonest" and ends it with "You are an idealogue, a zealot, a charlatan, and nothing more." See his talk page for multiple warnings and punishments for violations of the personal attack rule. ] 16:14, 27 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :I gave him a final warning.--] 00:23, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::My only caution here is that the Anarchism article is very very contentious. It doesn't excuse what AaronS said, but really no one in that discussion stays civil for long, it seems like. --]<sup>]</sup> 00:51, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :::(Pasted from user talk:) I'm familiar with the policy. When a user is a troll who disrupts in a particular way, it is indeed useful to expose that. I have been watching the discussion for quite some time, only adding my own thoughts very sparingly. I have had experience with Hogeye in the past, before he was originally banned. He was diverting discussion aimed towards improving the article towards the same kinds of things that got him banned -- originally-researched diagrams from his personal web site, leads that purposefully do not attempt to reach any compromise, etc. He has already stated, more or less, that his intention is to make editing the article so unbearable that people will be forced to give him what he wants. | |||
| :::Showing exactly how Hogeye disrupts discussion enables other contributors to be cautious and helps them better understand how to deal with him. Hogeye already has a chip on his shoulder the size of the Titanic. My comments bounced right off him. The purpose of them, however, was to show others that, until he changes his behavior, they should not be wasting pages and pages of talk page discussion rehashing the same old points that he was bringing up before he was banned. --] 12:54, 28 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 17:59, 13 August 2024
 | This page is currently inactive and is retained for historical reference. Either the page is no longer relevant or consensus on its purpose has become unclear. To revive discussion, seek broader input via a forum such as the village pump. |
- This process has been discontinued per this discussion.
The personal attack intervention noticeboard (PAIN), created on 7 October 2005, was intended as a counterpart to the request for intervention against vandalism page. A person with complaints over personal attacks could, after giving warnings, report a personal attacker on this page.
Unfortunately, the noticeboard generated a considerable amount of controversy. While vandalism is usually a clear cut case, and administrator intervention (i.e. blocking) is usually uncontroversial, determining whether a comment is a personal attack, incivil, or just simply blunt and frank, can be quite subjective. That led to a lot of arguments, flame wars, tit-for-tat disputes and wikilawyering on this page. Even after several warnings as well as changes to the header designed to instruct users on how to use this page, this noticeboard continued to deteriorate. Due to this deterioration as well as some particularly poor exchanges in December 2006, the entire page was nominated for deletion, with the result that the noticeboard was closed on 10 January 2007.
The closure of this noticeboard does not mean that personal attacks are tolerated; they should never be. It simply means that complaints over personal attacks are moved to different, and more appropriate venues such as the administrators' noticeboard, dispute resolution or, as a last resort, arbitration.
Procedure
Misplaced Pages:Personal attack intervention noticeboard/Header
Categories: