User talk:Wobble: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 09:26, 26 October 2006 editÉponyme (talk \| contribs)294 editsm →LOL ← Previous edit		Latest revision as of 02:37, 30 October 2024 edit undoVanisaac (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users92,693 editsm →Invitation to participate in a research: fix mass message link per WP:AWBREQ, replaced: [[Special:MyLanguage/Research: → [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Research:Tag: AWB
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			== Need you to point me in the right direction ==
	==] to the ]==
	I noticed you were new, and wanted to share some links I thought useful:

			I'd need a professional body statement (such as the APA, AAA or AAPA statements on race) from biologists and/or geneticists on what they think about the subject of "race"... This is of course for the R&I article. Please let me know if anything comes to mind. Thanks in advance.--] (]) 15:17, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
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			== Mea culpa ==
	For more information click '''<big>]</big>'''. You can sign your name by typing 4 tildes, like this: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>.

			I'd like to personally apologize for failing to re-check the source of that passage when you suggested it. I should have, but didn't, relying upon my earlier notation instead. I posted the full citation of the passage on the talkpage. Thanks, --] <small>]</small> 14:34, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
	]
			:No problem. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Appreciate it. ] (]) 15:47, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
	<br><br>

			==Orphaned non-free image File:Shagrat-Pink Jackets Required.png==
	(] \| ] \| ]) 10:26, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
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			If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of "file" pages you have edited by clicking on the "]" link (it is located at the very top of any Misplaced Pages page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any '''articles''' will be deleted after seven days, as described on ]. Thank you. <!-- Template:Di-orphaned fair use-notice --> ] (]) 22:47, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
	==STV==
	Welcome aboard Alun, thanks for your contributions to ]. Sounds like you have a good grasp of the topic. —] 10:30, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

			== Thanks ==
	== Return of the STV article ==

			I never thanked for your condolence note last year, but I appreciate it more than I can possibly express. All the best, in friendship. ] (]) 16:25, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
	I've begun making heavy edits to ] again. You were a frequent contributor before, and have reviewed my edits in the past, so please feel free to jump in and help make this the ready for featured article status - perhaps even the coolest featured article on a voting system ever ] 07:00, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

			== Race and intelligence mediation ==
	==] has been listed for deletion==
	<!-- Please note that if it says "Editing Template:Idw (section)" at the top then you are editing the master copy of this template. You might want to cancel this edit and use the "edit this page" tab on you user talk page instead. -->
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			Wobble,

			I've responded to you ] at the mediation. slrubenstein has made some suggestions about revising the statements to adress your concerns, and I'm waiting on your approval before I do so. sorry for any confusion about my purpose on the page. --] 17:28, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
	== Please check your images==
	I noticed that you have some images in the category ]. Due to the vast number of images in this category (12000+), and the fact that, lacking a source, they present considerable copyright uncertanty, Jimbo has stated, and added to the ], "Images in category "Images with unknown source" or "Images with unknown copyright status" which have been in the category for more than 7 days, regardless of when uploaded." This means the images can, and will, be deleted with no notice. To see a list of all the images you've uploaded(at least, under this username), . If you have any questions, please let me know. ] 17:46, 20 September 2005 (UTC) ] 17:50, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

	==~~Rosalind~~ ~~Franklin~~==		==R&I mediation==
			there 's a draft of an outline at ]. You have not yet commented on it, and I am preparing to give the outline to David.Kane (per current agreement in mediation) to enter a draft of the article in mainspace. There will be a review/revision period after the draft is entered in which any issues can be addressed, so if you have no immediate comment, or can't get to the mediation page to make a comment, you can participate in the review and we can address any concerns you still have there.
	The Watson statement comes from a lecture he gave a year or two ago. I suppose some may say that qualifies as original research. As that is the sort of thing that is much more likely to come up in print than online, I'd be hesitant to delete it until investigated further. I really doubt it's the only time he made such a statement, anyway, but I have no other source. -] 15:48, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

			sorry for the bulk message. {{=)}} --] 11:02, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
	== Barnstar ==

			== Race and intelligence, new draft ==
	]]]] 18:06, 2 October 2005 (UTC)]]
			A new draft of the ] article is being edited into mainspace, based on discussion in mediation. It should be completed sometime on 4/1/2010. I am posting this notice to mediation participants in the hopes that those who have not contributed recently to the mediation will come back to review and comment on the draft, and help discuss any revisions that need to be made. You may make any reviews or comments at ], and we will discuss any revisions that need to be made.

			I'd also ask you to leave a note for {{user\|David.Kane}} on his talk page. Whatever your opinion of the draft itself, I think he deserves thanks for putting a lot of time and effort into making the revisions. --] 18:45, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
	== Martin and Rosalind Franklin ==

			== Race ==
	All I can say is I am glad I bowed out from editing that article when I did. From reading the talk page, its my opinion that Martin will try to passive agressively manipulate any other editor of that article to some end known only to him. Best of luck to you in dealing with him. :) --] 22:08, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

			you might want to keep an eye on discussion. ] \| ] 14:34, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
	:Well, all that I can say is if you or any of the other editors of it want to ask for arbitration I'll comment on your behalf. Other than that, yes... take a break from the article. You can always pull a fresh version from one of the old revisions later. --] 11:31, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

	==~~Martin~~==		==2 boys image==
			Hi Wobble,</br>coming over from Commons where your image ] has been tagged for deletion. While the presented rationale isn't that convincing, I see a problem with personality rights as this is an indoor shot of fully identifiable non-notable people. Honestly, do you have the informed consent of the parents for broad publication of this image under a free license? --] (]) 07:21, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
	* Alun, I am on: martin@packer34.freeserve.co.uk if you want to talk?
			:Ummm, I am their parent. ] (]) 15:38, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

			== Huxley races ==
	First:http://www.packer34.freeserve.co.uk/rememberingfranciscrickacelebration.htm

			Hi Wobble. Your map http://en.wikipedia.org/File:Huxley_races.png lists ] under number 1. Because you say "map of the distribution of human races by Thomas Huxley", I am not sure whether the terms used by Huxley must stay as is. What I am getting at, is whether Bushmen should not be replaced by Bushmen (or San) and ]. ] (]) 17:22, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
	'''Can YOU remove Herr Schimdt's awful frame around Rosy's portrait?'''

			:Yeah, I see your point. I don't know. I used the term bushmen because that is what Huxley used. I simply don't know if the people he meant correspond to the same group as what we might call San today. In general I think there would be no problem with the change though. ] (]) 09:59, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
	Martin

			== You are now a Reviewer ==
	==Re: Glucose==
	The ring form of glucose forms by breaking the double bonded oxygen on carbon 1, transfering the hydrogen from the OH group on carbon 5 to the oxygen on carbon 1, and linking carbon 1 to carbon 5 by the oxygen that was previously part of the OH group. The groups attached on carbon 1 can therefore be aligned in either way (IIRC, my diagram is the alpha isomer and your textbook shows the beta isomer). The alignment of the groups on carbon 4, not carbon 1, determine whether the molecule is glucose or galactose. ] ] 20:59, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

			]
	==Y- Chromosome analysis==
			Hello. Your account has been granted the "{{mono\|1=reviewer}}" userright, allowing you to ] on certain flagged pages. ], also known as flagged revisions, underwent a ] which ended on 15 August 2010. Its continued use is still being discussed by the community, you are free to participate in such discussions. Many articles still have pending changes protection applied, however, and the ability to review pending changes continues to be of use.

			Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not ] to articles placed under level 1 pending changes and edits made by non-reviewers to level 2 pending changes protected articles (usually high traffic articles). Pending changes was applied to only ], similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial. The list of articles with pending changes awaiting review is located at ].
	Hello Alun. I appreciate your comments at ], but I'm sure I fully understand what you are saying. Would you mind returning and leaving a further comment that would be clearer to my (so-called) intellect? I'd be much obliged, as this subject is complicated to most lay people. Cheers. ] 00:34, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

			For the guideline on reviewing, see ]. Being granted reviewer rights doesn't grant you status nor change how you can edit articles even with pending changes. The general help page on pending changes can be found ], and the general policy for the trial can be found ].
	Hello Alun. I really appreciated your comments at ]'s talk page. I will have to sit down and read through it carefully and make sure I understand it this time. Thanks again. ] 21:08, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

			If you do not want this user right, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time.<!-- Template:Reviewer granted --> ] 05:17, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
	== getting rid of that awful "discovery of dna" template ==

			== Human genetic variation article review ==
	Hi Alun, yes I removed all six of them yesterday; unfortunately it also removed their portraits! I think there was a consensus for it to be deleted; any serious scientific academic would find the choice of those six people ridiculous. At the other extreme are the two
	'Oregon' listings of Linus Pauling & the race for DNA/the chemical bond! ] 10:39, 10 December 2005 (UTC) (MP)

			The ] article is undergoing a ]. Comments have been submitted on the lede. It appears that you were involved in writing the lede, so you may wish to participate in modifying the lede to meet Good Article standards. --] (]) 21:42, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
	ps Try reading: '''Genesis of a Discovery: DNA Structure, ed S. Chomet, 1993). ...published by Newman Hemisphere Press, London'''

			== Moving ] - ongoing poll ==
	== DNA navigation box ==

			This is to let you know that an ongoing poll is taking place to move ].
	I'm glad you edited the navigation box. I have been thinking about other kinds of navigation boxes that would be less of a visual shock (maybe something like ]. I originally thought it would be fun to have a "pairing" of links (two rows of links) in order to visually reflect the two strands of the DNA molecule. It would also be possible to have a ] for the bottom of some pages, particularly for articles that have very little information on them so far. --] 13:58, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
			This note is going out to wikipedia members who have participated in Burma/Myanmar name changing polls in the past.
	:Thanks for your work on the navigation boxes. I have tried to keep updated descriptions of the various options in a central location (see ]). --] 13:55, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
			It does not include banned members nor those with only ip addresses. Thank you. ] (]) 21:50, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

	Now I see the expanded DNA navigation box, I think it looks odd. I now prefer just the four names. Part of my reasoning for a longer list was to illustrate who you could list before Pauling. It beats me why Delbrück gets a mention at all. I have given up reasoning with John Schmidt and will head back to mediaeval history. ] 15:55, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

	== Rosalind Franklin ==

			== Help with article ==
	Hi Wobble, I have read your improvements to the section and am very pleased to note that you are very even-headed, very unlike the anonymous guy whom I believe was the same guy who disrupt our debate in the ] talk page. — ] 20:22, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
			I saw on the genetics projects page that you were interested in genetics, but not any particular genetics-speciality. Would you perhaps like to help with the genetics collaboration of the month, the ] article? That's a fairly broad article, since it does not focus on one specific disease and I thought you perhaps could come with some input. Best. --] (]) 11:45, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
			== File:Finn2003.jpg listed for deletion ==
			A file that you uploaded or altered, ], has been listed at ]. Please see the ] to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. <!-- Template:Fdw --> ] (]) 19:25, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

	== ~~Wiki~~ ~~wishes~~ ==		== Rosalind Franklin ==

	Thanks for the comments that you left on my talk page. I have learned much from you, particularly through discussions at ]. I am grateful that you are willing to take the time to share with me what you know from your reading of sources that I have not read. I will be getting a copy of the paperback edition of Wilkins' autobiography just as soon as my local book store has a copy. I wish for you all the best in wiki collaborations for 2006 and beyond! --] 19:41, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

	==]==
	I what certainly looks like a typo, but since it's in a quote I thought I'd let you know. ] 11:39, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

	== Irish people ==

	Will do Alun. I will try to make the reason and statement as neutral as possible. I've done alot of research into this area and Scotchirish.net is the most valid on-line source I can find at the present to give some substance to this information. Thanks, ] 11:50, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

	== Accusation ==

	I apologize but there has been a misunderstanding in this issue. I did not intend my comment towards you (User:Wobble). I was directing them towards the person who doesn't have a discussion page and who vandalised my own user page. This person is also the same one who kept removing my link/source on the Ulster Scots/Scotch-Irish. I was merely stating that if he/she continued to do so, then I would contact the admin. and I only used your name as you seemed to support my case in the matter (as is evidence by your original comment on my discussion page) and I figured you were an administrator. Again, my apologies, ] 20:29, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

	== ] ==
	I've created a fairly simple ] (shortcut ]) to try to get things started. Please have a look and consider signing on, adding it to your watchlist and helping to make sure any users with an interest in the subject know about it. Also please feel free to add things and to change anything you feel needs changing – I'm not under the impression that I own it! ] 20:20, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

	== Rosalind Franklin on Wikisource ==

	Hi, I fear we have a problem with this, in that the actual ''Times'' obit was by J. D . Bernal. Am I right in thinking this is really Klug's life of her from the ''Oxford Dictionary of National Biography''? We do not allow fair use on Wikisource, so I have flagged it for deletion. Its a shame since she was an important lady. Do you have anything that fits the GFDL rules you might wish to substitute. Kind regards. ] 20:57, 22 March 2006 (UTC) (Admin on Wikisource)

	== Hey there ==

	Hi Alun. I hope Im not coming across too harshly on the Talk:Irish people page as it is not my intention and I am not trying to force my POV onto others or compeltely disregard others POV. I am just trying to present the facts and information that I believe and know are correct. But I do accept others POV and opinions. User:Enzedbrit has been very very irritating to me, editing my user page a few times and has been consistent with insults and ridiculous behaviour when it comes to discussions. In short, he has some serious personal issues to contened with and this is why debates with him go nowhere as he seems to be greatly threatened by my discussions/POV as well as any evidence and reasoning to support it. As to what we were debating on the Talk page for Irish people, I belive you should really read some of the works by Carleton Coon. Yes his typological and "race" models are obsolete, but much of the historical information and physical appearance/characteristics data gathered on European peoples showing their variation is the best available (even if from 1939). His history relating to his conclusions is also quite reliable but yet again, it needs mentioning just how false and out of date much of his theories are also. The most striking matter of his work is not only the obvious correlations with the commonly observed physical apperance of different European groups and regions, but also with modern findings of populatoin genetics. I really am working hard on finishing an article revealing these correlations. Some of Coons data from 1939 can be viewed here:
	Cheers, ] 10:46, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

	EPF, you are a liar and a trouble maker, and I have NEVER edited your user page. ] 03:02, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

	Read my response on my dicsussion page. Who really cares now, but since its been brought up, he did vandalize my page. ] 05:10, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

	==RS==

	I just wanted to voice my support for the way you are handling the Rosalind Franklin article. I'm moderately familiarly with the writing about her (and have a lot of quotable sources on my bookshelf), so if you ever feel like you need more voices to back you in edit conflicts over particular points, let me know.--] 03:25, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

	== Rosalind Franklin article ==

	Thanks for all of your work on the ] article. I made a few changes trying to fix minor format issues. It would be nice to be able to include an x-ray diffraction image such as photograph 51. There is contact information at the bottom of the DNA discovery webpage that might lead you to someone who could explain the copyright status of the Gosling/Franklin images. It might be worth contacting Gosling. --] 15:19, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

	== immigration. ==

	good edit on there- thanks for the help.

	The BNP isle of dogs stuff says "citation" how do i put a citation in there?

	thanks!

	:OK, find your source, it needs to be ], you can follow the link to find out more, but it means that it should be from a published source that other people can check, like a book or newspaper article or website. It should also be from a ], so not ramblings on a chatroom or someone's personal website, but something that people would generally consider reliable. You need to cite your source, like in the references section (see ] for more info). Then, after the section you want to reference write this <nowiki><ref>what you write here will appear in the references section</ref></nowiki>. There's more info about footnotes ]. Hope this is of help. ] 15:31, 2 May 2006 (UTC)


	The Derek Beacon comments were very publicised at the time and repoted widley in the press, is quoting from memory not acceptable?

	Thanks] 13:47, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

	:It happens a lot on Misplaced Pages, but it's really against the ] policy. The reasoning is that people's memories can be faulty, but also that if Misplaced Pages is going to be a good resource, then it needs to show that the information there is from a proper source, andisn't just someone's opinion. Without verifiability Misplaced Pages lacks any authority, it just becomes a collection of the opinions of editors. It's well worth taking a look at the policies on ], ] and ]. ] gives good reasons for using citations. Cheers. ] 16:23, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

	Terve!

	The sources relating to the immigration quote and "general public" come from you gov, the bbc reporting during the "prisoner releases" scandal and newspapers. If they are disagreeable you have no right to remove them from an article - a tiny bit of research will reveal it is factual info - try looking around maybe, but please dont just do hatchet jobs?] 13:45, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

	:Verifying sources is great, I am all in favour of it, one of the main policies on wikipedia is the ] policy. This basically means that if a ] (POV) (or an opinion if you like) is expressed, then any alternative POVs should also be expressed at the same time, the purpose of this is so that an article does not give the impression that any particilar POV is correct or a fact. All POVs should be properly verified from sources, or they will be seen as simply the point of view of the editor. If you make an edit you have the responsibility to verify it with a source. If edits are not verified then it is perfectly acceptable for anyone to remove it. I removed the sentence about the ''general public'' because not only was it not sourced, but was a form of ], these are not considered acceptably ''encyclopaedic''. There is a nice quote from the ] style guideline ''Weasel words don't really give a neutral point of view; they just spread hearsay, or couch personal opinion in vague, indirect syntax. It is better to put a name and a face on an opinion than to assign an opinion to an anonymous source''. For example what does ''the general public'' actually ''mean''. This is what you wrote:<br>
	::''Also, the general public frequently denounces the low proportion of failed asylum seekers who are actually expelled from the United Kingdom''.
	: Well how does someone reading the article know what the general public is? Is it a majority (over 50%) is it a ] (ie a relative majority, the largest group but not necessarily over 50%), is it a significant minority (say 20%) or is it a small minority (say less than 10%), what? If there has been a survey done and you can quote a figure, then that's great, but making a claim for an unspecified ''general public'' is certainly ''to assign an opinion to an anonymous source''. Where does the general public do it's denouncing? The public do not have access to the mass media and do not get the chance, ever, to ''denounce'' things ''en mass'', even demonstrations are usually composed of a ''vocal minority'' rather than the ''general public''. I would suggest that you try to find an opinion poll or a survey to support this claim, and then to include the data in a more neutral way, like saying that ''in a survey x% of the respondents were unhappy with the low proportion of failed assylum seekers that are actually expelled from the country'' (insert reference). It would also be a good idea to find out the ''actual'' proportion that is expelled and include this as well. I am not trying to be difficult, and I am perfectly happy for this sort of information to be included, as long as it is included in a neutral and verified way. This is not a political ], try to find the most ''authoritative'' ], for example try to avoid using the ] press.<br>
	:On a different note, I would recomend getting your own user page, click on your signature, it's now red, and write something into the '']'', you don't have to put anything personal there if you don't want to, just say ''Hello'' if you like, people can then leave messages for you on your talk page. Happy editing. ] 17:22, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

	:Looking at the yougov poll , I can find no reference to ''the general public frequently denounces the low proportion of failed asylum seekers who are actually expelled'', the poll is about BNP policies, not about public opinion regarding failed asylum seekers. There is metion about accepting ''fewer'' asylum seekers, but that is a different matter. ] 17:59, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

	"Well how does someone reading the article know what the general public is?"

	UK general public - mori polls for instance - if i said perhaps that a large minority were reported to be anti deportation, would you be as critical?And i am sure normal english speaking people kbow what the term "general public" means - perhaps we could write an article/cite?

	"This is not a political ], try to find the most ''authoritative'' ], for example try to avoid using the ] press.<br>"

	This was interesting reading until you reverted to an obvious tabloid press bias - i agree we should be politically neutral, so please lets not make intelligence assumptions based on red top readers - that is insulting if you think about it.

	I will get the figures for wikipedia and perhaps you can help me cite them, my formatting is awful.

	Cheers mate.] 18:58, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

	:It's not so much that people don't know what the term ''general public'' '''means''' in the sense of '''understanding''', but what does it mean in terms of ascribing a specific meaning to the sentence. If we are trying to be accurate and neutral then we cannot attribute this belief to the ''general public'' because it makes a claim which is meaningless, in that we do not know '''who''' the general public '''is''', I think this is explained in the ] guideline I mentioned earlier.
	: As for the comment about ''tabloids'', I made no reference to the people who read them whatsoever. I merely pointed out that they are not very authoritative sources, which is true. In fact most of the press, including ''broadsheets'' (though are there any left these days?), are not particularly authoritative. They are best used when they are reporting news or events, but can be very biased when it comes to ] pieces, as these are the opinions of the writers, in this case all newspapers have a political bias, but tabloids in particular tend to get hysterical and misrepresent the true facts in order to sensationalise things. I think sensationalist journalism should be avoided at all costs. I can give a good example of this from a completely unrelated instance. I have been doing some work on the genetics of the Anglo-Saxon invasion, the BBC reported that a research paper<br>
	::'' suggests that between 50% and 100% of the indigenous population of what was to become England was wiped out'' <br>
	:but the research paper actually said this
	::''we conclude that these striking patterns are best explained by a substantial migration of Anglo-Saxon Y chromosomes into Central England (contributing 50%–100% to the gene pool at that time)''.
	:The paper also went on to say
	::''We note, however, that our data do not allow us to distinguish an event that simply added to the indigenous Central English male gene pool from one where indigenous males were displaced elsewhere or one where indigenous males were reduced in number''.
	:The journalist had distorted the meaning of the paper to produce a more sensational claim. The BBC article had been used as a source in the Anglo-Saxons article, I went back to the original research papers (a more authoritative source) and corrected the mistake. Unfortunately this information has been removed from the article now for different reasons, but here's the original and my edit. So what I am trying to say about authoritative sources is that the ''original'' source is the best, and not a journalistic ''interpretation'' of the source.
	:So for things like this opinion polls are probably the best source, though with opinion polls we need to be sure that what we say is accurate. The yougov poll for example gave a figure for people who believe that the UK should take less asylum seekers, it made no reference to the rate of return of people who had had their request for asylum turned down, which is what your edit claimed. If you want to say that a '''certain proportion''' of the British people believe that a '''greater number''' of people who have '''had their request for asylum''' turned down should be returned than '''now occurs''' (which is what I think you were claiming), then you need to find a source that gives the proportion of people who think this, but the yougov poll is not a source for this, as it did not ask that particular question.
	:We all have problems with formatting when we start on wikipedia, it takes some time to learn all the little tricks, it also takes some time to get used to the various guidelines and policies, an some experienced wikipedians ''never'' use them, which is very unfortunate. You may also be interested in the ], ], ] and ] articles. Personally I think we need a ] article as well. If you get the citations I would be happy to help you with including them in your edit. All the best. ] 05:17, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

	::I should add here that it is ok to use ] from newspapers to illustrate a point of view, but it should be made clear that this is the opinion of the author of the editorial/opinion piece, and not necessarily of the ''general public''. So for example if you can find a newspaper opinion piece that states that not enough failed asylum seekers are deported, then it's OK to use this as a source for your claim, though it needs to be presented somethnig like this ''there has been some critisism in the media about the small proportion of failed asylum sekers that are actually deported'' (cite source). So in some cases newspaper opinion pieces are fine, as long as they are properly attributed. Cheers, ] 12:38, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

	==History of Wales==

	Thank for the barnstar - my first! ] 07:31, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


	==British Ethnicity==
	Did you call me an English/Scottish Celtophobic ethnic nationalist? Please, don't jump to assumptions pal. First things first: I am not English or Scottish! Secondly, I am not a celtophobe! thirdly, I don't espouse any of the ideologies that you have labeled me with. I do not think the definitions used in the article were correct and I think it is you yourself who are displaying cultural bias. According to your own definition, an ethnic group is:
	“a human population whose members identify with each other, usually on the basis of a presumed common genealogy or ancestry (Smith 1986). Ethnic groups are also usually united by common cultural, behavioral, linguistic, or religious practices.” Well then, I’d like to point out that I come from a region of the UK where 44% of the population do not identify with the ‘British’ label, do not presume to have either a geological, cultural, linguistic or religious link with the main stream “british” culture. I am an Irish Catholic and I do not feel that the articles definition of ethnically british peoples as “English, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish and Northern Irish” is either informative or sensitive. Under the good Friday agreement the citizens of Northern Ireland can choose to be British, Irish, both or neither. To slap the entire region as part of an ethnic group distinct from the southerners is not only preposterously inaccurate in terms of the good Friday agreement but also culturally insulting. I would say the same thing to any wikipedian presumptuous enough to clap all northerners as “non-British” “Gaelic” or “ethnically Irish.” Ours is a sensitive region that can not be simply plowed under either label without explanation. You yourself stated that “In this sense, an ethnic group is also a cultural community.” Well, half of the problem here in NI is that there have been two competing cultural identities and backgrounds. An attempt by either community to enfold the other under its own cultural blanket demonstrates the same vile intolerance that has plagued us for so long. I think our difficulty rises from a misunderstanding more than anything as well as a bit of miscommunication on my own part. My problem was not so much with the concept of a british identity itself but with the phrasing of the sentence which was worded in such a way as to label all inhabitants of the NI as part of a distinct ‘british’ ethnic group from the southern Irish.

	P.S. “Celtophobic?” Are you joking? I think this must be a misunderstanding my friend because well, quite frankly……. Éireannach is ea mé! (:
	] 00:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

	"do not presume to have either a geological, cultural, linguistic or religious link with the main stream “british” culture."

	Sorry, that should have said "genealogical" not "geological." Two very different concepts indeed (: ] 00:19, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
	Point well taken Alun. I think the problem was a matter of emphasis. When I wrote that There is no such thing as a 'British' ethnicity that overlaps Scotland Wales England and Northern Ireland I did not mean to say that there is no shared 'British' culture that citizens of the UK could identify with but that the citizens of NI were not nessecarily from this 'extraction' at all. The Ulster Scots label is a much clearer marker as NI is not simply an example of a cultural comunity in which 56% of its members choose to embrace a 'British' identity and 44% don't but rather a region built on two distinct and richly unique cultures one of which almost wholy traces its roots to the culture of the south while the other traces its roots to the culture of the Scottish lowlands etc. In hindsight I full heartedly acknowledge that it would have been much better for me to have opened my grievences in a disscussion on the talk panel as this would have avoided the miscomunications that we ran into. Anyway while we were arguing User:Mais oui! reverted your earlier change but its good to see that you've been able to fix that up. Again, thank you for the "Ulster Scots" clarrification and sorry about the misunderstanding. Cheers!

	PS, As for those arguing in defence of the Celtophobia article, I can't say that I get their motives myself either. The article was fairly unfounded, opinionated and well, poorly written. However, the fact that the six boxes of complaints regarding the articles content take up more space than the article itself was quite humerous.
	] 07:01, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

	== Epf saying hello ==

	No probs Alun. I just thought that little part deserved mention. Hope things are going well and I dont know if your a football fan, but the WC is comin up and GO ENGLAND !!! Cheers, ] 10:11, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

	== ] ==

	If you check my edit you'll see that I didn't remove the reference; I simply placed the link to the IMDb entry in the usual place and format. Also, using Wikilinks that take the reader to an unexpected article (one not described by the word or phrase linked) isn't acceptable; they're known as Easter Egg links, and should be avoided. (E.g., ].)

	I'm also unclear as to why you added the "fact" template to the summary. --] (]) 20:45, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

	#Again, linking "number one" should take the reader to an article about "number one" — not to a list of number-one singles from a certain year.
	#As the IMDb page is a standard entry in the external links sections of biographical articles, and as it is (at least potentially) more general than the specific fact of a certain film, it would seem more useful to place it in the more general section (and in the templated standard form). Note that your version had a footnote number that took the reader back to the top of the article, and lost the reference completely.
	#I missed the links to The Jam and "Going Underground"; sorry. The link to "charts", even if necessary (and it's a standard term, and appears unlinked in thousands of Misplaced Pages articles) was in fact to an article about the U.K. singles chart, which is again misleading.
	#I ''always'' give edit summaries; I notice that you don't. That I don't give every detail of an edit is unavoidable; that I don't explain every edit on Talk pages is standard (if editors did that, Misplaced Pages would pretty well grind to a halt — and the fact that you don't do it either presumably indicates that you understand that). --] (]) 08:40, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

	==Woo==

	Thanks for the barnstar. :) ] 03:38, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

	== Verification ==

	I was a silent observer of the argument over Kevin Pietersen's article.

	I just wondered what you thought of this page: ]?

	] 12:05, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

	:Repost from my page:
	"Hmmm... I've seen it before, thought not edited. It looks like a bad mess. And a political minefield too. What fun! We could get seriously stuck into it. Actually, rather than arguing the toss over every line, a good start point might be splitting the page into two halves for verified and unverified stats and gradually move constituent parts upwards? What do you think of that? --] 17:59, 16 June 2006 (UTC)"

	I just thought that as someone who disliked KP's article because of lack of verified stats, you might go stratospheric over this one! Happy to work with you on it... next week? --] 18:56, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

	::Please see ]! --] 11:39, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

	== Need your assistance on ] and ] ==

	There is a possible chance that a 3RR might come up and we've all probably broken it, but while they know it and call me a troll, they will not self-incriminate by honking sirens for a sysop or admin. I like your broad and tolerant mind. Please make use of it where others (especially the Marxist) have-not one of those. I'm bothered by the fact that these guys are making a Wikipedian article very narrow-minded and National Socialist in description about the English people along with their interactions with others. I think it's pretty clear that European nationalities are based upon sovereign kingdoms and not their individual provinces or fiefs run by dukes or barons and subsidiary principalities, while there is some quasi-racial element in discussing empires (we are all of Roman descent, as Europeans). It seems like my opponents are extremely xenophobic and worried that they have to turn back time to erase flaws in the state of England as it is today. They must know that the Misplaced Pages is not a place to do that. ] 00:51, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

	== Finland ==

	It was'nt my edit, but the edit of ]. ] = ] <small>(]</small> 06:54, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
	:No problem. ] = ] <small>(]</small> 08:13, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

	I did nothing of the sort. I had nothing to do with the Examiner edit. How you could regard complete garbage that is the opening of the British Isles article as removely NPOV is beyond me. It is rubbish and will be deleted. That crap does not belong in an encyclopaedia. ]]\<sup><font color="blue">]</font></sup> 16:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

	== Thanks, and apologies ==

	I apologise totally for what I said. Unfortunately I have spent the last week battling ], an extremely painful condition, and it has left me short tempered. (Having to spend a night in hospital with the pain didn't help!) Unfortunately some of those who have been editing the page have a history of extremely biased POV-pushing (one I suspect is a returned permanently banned user who was banned for rascist attacks on Irish people - and others). Some articles end up so dominated by a small number of POV-pushers that most users just avoid the article until the POV-pushing gets too severe. ] is one of those articles that has a habit of attracting those individuals. (In recent weeks I have been accused of being pro-choice by pro-lifers and pro-life by pro-choicers for trying to achieve neutrality in both articles, rather than allow both to become hagiographies. And last year in the space of an hour I was called a "Catholic plant pushing a Catholic agenda" and an "anti-Catholic church basher" on two different articles!!! Most bizarrely of all, I had someone (mis)quote something I had written as an academic to supposedly rebut what I had written in an article on WP. (He didn't know that I was the academic he was quoting, or rather mis-quoting!)

	I take standards on Misplaced Pages ''very seriously''. I also strive to be neutral, which meant that it was funny to be accused of pushing an "Irish nationalist agenda". On some Irish pages, Irish republicans have accused me of pushing an "Ulster Unionist agenda"! On one Australian page, Australian republicans accused me of being a monarchist, and Australian monarchists accused me of being a republican, for ''exactly the same edit''. (They were caught in an edit conflict. Both had egg on their faces when they managed to save their comments and they appeared side by side on the page!) I can be rather ruthless in trying to achieve neutrality and in challenging what I see as POV-pushing by either side.

	Personally I have no problem with people describing Ireland as being part of the British Isles. But I know millions of Irish people go ballistic at such a description. Some editors have a history of deleting any claims that Irish people have an issue with such a description. (One of them insisted on deleting that fact that the biggest inland lake in Ireland is . . . um . . . in Ireland. He insisted on saying that it was in the British Isles and regarded anyone who mentioned that it was in Ireland as "nationalist POV pushing"!!!

	Anyway, as I said, I apologise for the comments. I have a bit of a temper, and crippling pain from the sciatica made it worse. I misjudged you and wrongly categorised you alongside those who are POV-pushing. We both want to see the ] article as well sourced, objective and neutral as possible. I am still trying to find the source for the Nancy Reagan comments. Unfortunately they appeared in the pre-net age so they don't appear to be replicated anywhere on it. I'll dig around elsewhere and try to source them. I do remember the context and remember an Irish politician telling me how embarrassed he was by it. (His comment was "those fucking British Isles. Everyone presumes we are part of Britain because of it.")

	''Slán''

	]]\<sup><font color="blue">]</font></sup> 18:05, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

	==English wikipedia: cause for concern==
	Dear Alun, you may be aware of the existence of <nowiki>]</nowiki>. This has been nominated for deletion, on the grounds that all "similar" categories, eg. English-speaking people, would be "too big". I'm not prepared to die in a ditch over it, but I do feel that it's an obvious exception. If you have an opinion, would you care to contribute to the debate? ] 19:13, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

	==Rosalind Franklin==

	I agree. Even if there might be justification in creating a different article (and I don't know enough about the topic to have an option) the way that user is behaving is unacceptable. The standard way to do it is to create the new main article, say ''x'', and then keep some of the information as a summary in the other article ''y'', with a {{tl\|main\|y}} template allowing for a listing of the x article in the y article, in the form ''Main article: x''. The way the unnamed user is doing it is absolutely wrong. If the continue with the blanket deletions, the Franklin article can be semi-protected to stop IP editing.

	If I can be of any help on all of this, please let me know. ]]\<sup><font color="blue">]</font></sup> 16:23, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

	:Excellent. Anything created by a banned user is deleted on sight, irrespective of content, whether good or bad. If that user reappears on the Franklin article, let me know immediately and I will sprotect it and block that user indefinitely. ]]\<sup><font color="blue">]</font></sup> 18:12, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

	== King's College DNA ==

	Yes, I deleted both the article and the talk page. There was no AfD. It was deleted per ]- created by an extremely dangerous banned user. If you wish to recreate the article (using your words, not his), you are certainly welcome. ] <small>]</small> 17:52, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

	==]==
	I have been messing around with the double helix template you created. See version with the black bar and the version without the black bar . I'll let you decide which is best since I do not know the history of how this design came together. ] ] 17:23, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
	:Strangely, those two examples i gave you lost their black background? Possibly there was a change in the way the wiki markup works? i can't explain it any other way. ] ] 20:19, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

	== Rosalind Franklin and DNA ==

	{\| style="border: 1px solid {{{border\|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color\|#fdffe7}}};"
	\|rowspan="2" valign="top" \| ]
	\|rowspan="2" \|
	\|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: bottom; height: 1.1em;" \| '''The DNA Barnstar'''
	\|-
	\|style="vertical-align: top; border-top: 1px solid gray;" \| Thank you for all your biology-related work at Misplaced Pages and particularly DNA-related articles such as ].<BR>This is the first use of the '''DNA Barnstar''', meant to be "a good thing" and to ] your earlier recognition for "all your Wiki Contributions".<BR>Please pardon my limited design skills.
	\|}btw, I'll try to avoid my "helical" habit in the future. --] 18:18, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
	:Yesterday, a professional historian of molecular biology was telling me how great he thought the Franklin article was; he was ''very'' excited about it. Keep rockin'--] 14:58, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

	==Martin==
	Hi Alun- well, it's always best to be tolerant where possible. I do sympathise completely with your situation- I also find him extremely frustrating, and I also lose the rag with him from time to time. However, he does seem to mainly edit in good-faith (or at least, he seems to), albeit with a complete disregard for policy. I'm also at a loss to know what to do; his behaviour doesn't really fit into an easily catagorised mould. One possibility would be an RfC, although I'm not certain that he'd actually pay any attention whatsoever....<sigh>... I suppose all I can really say is to continue in the same vein; remove or mitigate his silly edits to the articles proper when they arise, but also remove his supercilious comments from the talk page likewise (as personal attacks/incivility). He is frustrating but I guess we should try and turn the other cheek and count to 10- I'm not sure of Martin's personal circumstances, but it seems at least possible that he is a little bit "touched", as my auld Granny used to say. Anyway, if you want to open an RfC or progress further I will certainly support- his behaviour has been completely out of order. All the best, ] 12:26, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

	== English people ==

	The English people trace a great deal of their culture and ancestry to the Anglo-Saxons and to deny such is just simply unfounded and unsupported. The Frisians speak the closest modern language to English and share other cultural traits as well as a great deal of their ancestry with most English peoples (i.e. to the the Anglo-Saxons). English people trace their ancestry to "Ancient Britons", Anglo-Saxons and Danish Vikings, so I don't see how you can not include continental groups. The main component of English culture is also Germanic, derived from the Anglo-Saxons, Vikings and even to the the Normans. What little left of it is "Celtic" is debated and insignificant compared to the Germanic elements which created the foundations for "English" identity. {{unsigned\|69.157.126.241}}

	:See ]. ] 19:50, 12 August 2006 (UTC)


	== Request for comments==
	Feel welcome to add your statement to ]. This is a necessary step in dispute resolution. Regards, ]] <sup><small>]</small></sup> 20:39, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

	==Scotland/Alba==
	Fair enough. Certainly the user to whom you were replying was talking utter nonsense, and i would have reacted in a fairly irate manner myself had i come across him spouting his POV. I should have been a bit more corteous towards you in my own post as i know youre a decent chap but i do get irritable when i see statements/arguments of the kind you put forward regarding Scotland/Gaelic so i came across as a bit of an arse im sure. No hard feelings, ] 17:56, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

	== POV pushing? ==

	Just what biased POV do you think I'm pushing? All I'm saying is that while popsicle maybe unheard of in the U.K., "ice lollipop" is equally unheard of in north america. But within the U.S., at least, the generic use of "popsicle" to refer to the subject of the article is much more common than the use of "ice lollipop" anywhere. I'm not saying "popsicle" is the best name for the article - I don't know what that is. But I am saying that popsicle is better than "ice lollipop", which is what the proposed move is about. --] 18:38, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

	== Anglophobia ==

	Thanks for wanting to know more on the subject at ], but I'm a little perplexed on what you seek. Aren't you being a wee bit over-zealous? Citations are for "information that is contentious or likely to be challenged". Now seriously, is it contentious to say that Irish resentment of the British has something to do with the Cromwellian conquest of Ireland? Or to point out a link between the conquest of New France and resentment in Quebec? If so, I might consider asking a reference on the link between Orange (fruit) and Orange (colour). You can't ask a quote on every word of the encyclopedia. With kind regards. --] 06:43, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

	:I don't know where you get the idea that only '''''information that is contentious or likely to be challenged''''' needs a citation? This is not what the ] policy states at all, and it is not what the ] guideline states either. In fact the polict states in the very forst sentence of the policy '''''The threshold for inclusion in Misplaced Pages is verifiability, not truth.''' "Verifiable" in this context means that any reader must be able to check that material added to Misplaced Pages has already been published by a reliable source, because Misplaced Pages does not publish original thought or original research.'' So verifiability is the threshold for inclusion, if it's not verified the least you can expect is a request for verification. There is no requirement for editors to request verification, it is acceptable for editors to remove any unverified material without further comment, here's what the says '''''Any edit lacking a source may be removed, but some editors may object if you remove material without giving people a chance to provide references. If you want to request a source for an unsourced statement, a good idea is to move it to the talk page. Alternatively, you may tag the sentence by adding the <nowiki>{{fact}} template, or tag the article by adding {{not verified}} or {{unsourced}}</nowiki>.''''' It's worth checking out the ] guideline, the ] policy and the ] policy. Note that the verifiability polict is ''non negotiable''. I also have some concernes with the neutrality of the section on Anglophobia in Canada, you do not give any other point of view. ] 08:10, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

	::Hi, sorry if I got a bit angry over at anglophobia. I can see where the misunderstanding came from and it was a genuine attempt by you to contribute something useful. So no hard feelings on my part and appologies for getting a bit hot under the collar. ] 04:56, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

	:::It's okay. Thank you for being fair. I am happy we cleared the misunderstandings. --] 06:05, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

	==Franklin==

	When I can finish laughing at Badgerpatrol's comments about me (above), here is my latest:

	Alun, I trust you found the Klug piece from BBC Radio Four interesting? I re-read Maddox On Frankin at the weekend, having drawn my daughter's attention to the top of page 69! Maddox thinks Wilkins and Crick met at the Admiralty in WWII, but she is wrong and Hunter (on Bragg) apparently repeated her mistake for good measure. You never did tell me what you thought of Ridley on Crick ("now available at all good bookshops", sorry 'Badgerpatrol'!), any comments?

	Martin

	ps You might find this letter from Professor Robert Olby from the LRB interesting, following his review of Maddox's biography of Franklin? I assume you have read Bob's review in the LRB.

	Unfair to Rosalind Franklin From Robert Olby

	"In her response to my review of Brenda Maddox's Life of Rosalind Franklin, Barbara Low (Letters, 17 April) focuses on the ethics of Watson and Crick's use of Franklin's DNA data, whereas I concentrated on Maddox's achievement - in what is, after all, not a scientific biography - in bringing Franklin's personality into view. I did, however, criticise Maddox for expressing too much confidence in Patterson analysis. Well-informed statements of the limitations of the method exist in the literature of X-ray crystallography, but one would not expect the general reader to have encountered them. I did not write that Franklin 'did not know how to interpret her own data', but I did try to point out the clues that were available in those data.

	Robert Olby University of Pittsburgh"

	]mp]

	=='''Brenda Maddox's review of Matt Ridley's biography of Crick'''==

	See: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2102-2353754,00.html

	[and not a word about the 'cause celebre' in the whole review!) Incidentally on Monday evening for his short talk to the Royal Institution, Matt Ridley rebutted the loaded questions from the 'Franklinistas' present and said that Wilkins suffered more from W/C than Franklin did. In as many words, he said there are no patents on scientific ideas once they are in the public domain. Finally - on a personal note - surely WALES is still a principality (not a 'country') and shares its legal system, for example, with England, as in "England and Wales"? Martin

			You must be so looking forward to the new biography by her sister "Wobble"?
	]mp]

			] (]) 18:50, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

			Bought/read it. Only thing missed out is the invitation card for the 'D.N.A. Helix' funeral...
	:Wales is a ]. A country is a geographical area where a nation lives, Welsh people are a ]. The word ''country'' is always used for a geographical area, sometimes it means the geographical limits of a ], so the United Kingdom is a country and also a state, sometimes country means the geographical area that a nation lives in (if it is clearly defined, as Wales is, both nationally and politically), Wales is a country in this sense, as are Scotland and England. Because of this the word country can cause confusion. Wales may be a Principality, but this does not exclude it from being a country, and anyway the last indigenous Prince of Wales was ], but then the English lost their last indigenous King when the usurper William of Normandy invaded. It's instructive to have a look at the articles regarding ], ], ], ] and ]. ] 12:57, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
			] (]) 19:51, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

			== Moving ] - ongoing poll ==
	OK you're talking to me again, so what about Brenda Maddox's review of Ridley on Crick then? (Incidentally I think Charlotte Church is wonderful! Cardiff is also the spiritual home of Doctor Who!!)

			This is to let you know that an ongoing poll is taking place to move . I know this happened just recently but no administrator would close these frequent rm's down, so here we go again. This note is going out to wikipedia members who have participated in Burma/Myanmar name changing polls in the past. It does not include banned members nor those with only ip addresses. Thank you. ] (]) 00:26, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
	]mp]

			== Moving Burma to Myanmar - new 2015 poll ==
	:Maddox gave the book a good review, why shouldn't she? Reviews of anything always need to be read while bearing in mind that what we are reading are the opinions of the reviewer. Still an objective review will always give praise where it is due.
	:I grew up very close to Cardiff and went to University there, so I love the place. But I haven't lived in Cardiff (or Wales) for over twelve years and have been in Finland for over seven years. It was very nice to see so much of Cardiff on the new series of Doctor Who, though I haven't seen any of the latest series yet, we are a bit behind here, I have no access to British terrestrial television. ] 04:57, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

			You participated in a Burma RM in the past so I'm informing you of another RM. I hope I didn't miss anyone. ] ] (]) 09:12, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
	==Regarding your revert on Welsh People==
	Hello there. I was wondering whether you think the same about ]. I've inserted the category to both articles, yet I didn't object to its removal because of lack of enough knowledge on the issue. As a welsh person you probably know also whether the category fits the Scottish people article. If you can check it out please. Thanks. ] 12:37, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

			== Problematic Phylogeny Diagram from 2007 ==
	== Syke's and Oppenheimer's controversy ==

			Hi Wobble, I see that you are the author of this diagram, from 2007: https://commons.wikimedia.org/File:Molecular_lineage.png
	OK, Alun. I always try to look for consensus and I always assume good faith, tough sometimes debates get a bit heated up. I guess it is normal. I think that the evidence is more than acceptable. You also have Oppenheimer, not just Sykes, and you can read Oppenheimer not only in newspaper articles. In any case, I will wait for you to get the book. I have also ordered it from Amazon. Since I live in the US I guess it will take longer. The US edition will be ready in December, but I have ordered it from the UK. We will discuss the book later on. In any case I hope that you can get more information about both Sykes and Oppenheimer. I do not think that it is right to try and attack them, because you may not agree with them. They are as reputable as any other population geneticists and are usually highly regarded. See you soon. ] 17:38, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
			My impression is that it was intended to illustrate some basic concept about phylogeny in a generic way. However, unfortunately, with the letters A and B on it, it is being taken quite literally by some readers who have written to me. They are supposing that there is some unnamed, "Ancestral Haplogroup" ancestral to human Y-DNA haplogroups A and B, and which '''still survives to the present'''. They have been barraging me with questions as to whether it is A00, or what it would be. I participated as a volunteer project admin in the discovery of A00, and was a co-author of the paper about it in the AJHG. I'm continuing research on A00, so people are looking to me for the scoop. I keep telling them that there is no "third branch" as they are thinking. Do you think we could come up with a diagram that will illustrate phylogenetics in a way that is not going to give them the wrong idea? Thanks! ] (]) 18:02, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
			:The image is clearly a schematic of how mutations arise, and not meant to be representative of the actual Y chromosome phylogeny. After all, that itself is under constant review as new mutations are discovered, and the mutations aren't labelled as Y chromosome mutations would be, after all, haplogroup B is defined by B-M60, and I don't label that mutation as B-M60. Also there must have been an an ancestral Y chromosome to haplogroup A, that fact it is no longer extant doesn't mean it never existed. I don't mean to seem rude, but what I'm hearing from you is "some people are just too stupid to understand a simple schematic". This is an encyclopedia, it doesn't contain original research, it should contain explanations and illustrations that aid understanding of concepts. I made this image a very long time ago, and I haven't been involved in Misplaced Pages seriously for six years or more, I got very burned out with the constant wikilawyering and politicking. Personally I think the image is clearly illustrative of a concept, and obviously not meant to be taken literally. It's not a great image, I am sure that many people could produce something far more aesthetically pleasing, I don't pretend to be very good at drawing, I only wanted to help people understand why Y chromosome mutations are sequential and define haplogroups. I really don't care what you do, put it up for deletion, whatever. I'm done giving my time to help people who only ever attack and criticise you for it. I don't particularly feel responsible for the fact that some people are too stupid to grasp the basic concept of a schematic. ] (]) 04:31, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

			== ] ==
	I have already gotten and read Sykes's book. Myth shattering and very much in line with the newspaper articles. In fact, the maps shown are exactly the same as the ones in the book. I will wait for your comments. ] 21:45, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

			{{Misplaced Pages:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2015/MassMessage}} ] (]) 13:01, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
	I will continue the discussion in the English people's page, so that we all can see it. ] 21:58, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
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	I have reverted Epf's version. I always try to understand that we all may have different points of view, but I do not understand Epf very well either. ] 18:11, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

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	Hi, I made that change because the Normans weren't cited as a source of English heritage. (If I should've left an explaination, I didn't know, I'm new at this)

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	:No prob, we can include Normans as well. It's a good idea to give a reason on the talk page, some people may want to discuss it first, or even dispute it. I don't have a problem with including Normans myself. Cheers. ] 18:07, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
	:I have included Normans as you suggested. ] 18:09, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

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	So I have been away, I check my watchlist, and I find something saying "Response to Telsa" in the edit summary. And what does it say? "Bollocks to it, then?" I can't help feeling slightly put out about this.

	A lack of response doesn't mean I am deliberately ignoring you. I was not online. You replied on the seventh; I didn't immediately reply; and this is what I get? I know I have phases of being very active here, but I have others of not being active at all. Coming back to comments like that doesn't inspire me to come back any faster next time. ] ] 14:33, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

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	:Ah, right, I see. A most unfortunate combination of comment and edit summary! Fair enough; and I understand it wasn't deliberate. I hope this doesn't come across badly, but I wonder whether the reason that people have not responded is that they're just not watching the article any more. Either that, or they're like me and don't check daily. ] ] 09:26, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

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	::''Thinking about the whole ], it contains much information that is prehistorical in nature''. Actually, that's probably my fault. I put a lot of that in (much of which did come from the Davies book, as I recall). It seemed a good idea at the time! ] ] 11:18, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
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	You are a fucking LOSER, seriously. I find it funny how you attack other users about pushing a racial POV, when you clearly have some agenda of your own. "Races are a social construct" ? Please, that is about as far away one can get from a scientific statement. You live in a dream world where people are in complete control of what is seen as natural. Are you fuckin blind ? What do I have in common with a black guy culturally or by looks ? Dude, you make me laugh. Btw, your wife is a ugly bitch man, but then again thats probably the best you can get, so good luck with that, haha. Peace. {{unsigned\|69.157.105.101}}

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	:Thanks mate. My user pages have never been vandalised before. You only know you've ''made it'' on wikipedia when you get vandalised. You are a star. Oh by the way, do you think you sound remotely sane here? ] 06:39, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
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	Haha. OMG, "you know you've made it on Misplaced Pages" ? I was only kiddin before but you really are a loser if Misplaced Pages is the end all and be all of your daily routine. Why'd you get that Bsc. for, to wack yourself off and stay on Misplaced Pages all night ? hahaha. And Im not vandalizing yer page here, only stating the truth, I mean were you drunk when you met that nasty bitch right ? Please tell me you were drunk.....Get a life you douchebag.{{unsigned\|69.157.105.101}}

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	:I already have a life, which is why I don't need to get my kicks insulting people I do not know online. You are doing exactly what you accuse me of, ie '''stay on Misplaced Pages all night'''. Anyway it's nearly 10 in the morning here. The difference between me and you is I can accept the views of others who disagree with me without feeling the need to personally insult them or their family. Thanks again. Politeness is the best policy after all. By the way you have reached your three revert limit on English people. ] 06:50, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
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	::Hahahha, obviously you don't got much of a life you loser. This is my '''first time''' on Misplaced Pages and Im enjoying this shit so I dont know what the fuck you mean by that. The difference between us is that I already have a life, I dont have some ugly wife, I am young, gettin a good educatoin and my life isnt half-over (and Im not stupid enough to waste my money on a Bsc. that gets me NOWHERE). By the looks of it, its you who are on this thing all the time you fool. Oh, I forgot, Im not an ugly fuckin loser like yourself either. You have also reached your limit on English people too then, idiot. Anyways, say hi to your ugly, fat bitch for me (I bet her pussy fuckin reeks doesn't it ???). {{unsigned\|69.157.105.101}}

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	**''gettin a good educatoin''
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	*Better than yours obviously.

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	*Oh how are you gonna explain to your kids when they get older that they got a pussy and failure for a father ? hahaha. This is too easy.{{unsigned\|69.157.105.101}}

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	:Easy, I'll come to you for advice:) ] 06:50, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

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	::Exactly, you'll want to show them what an attractive, successful and intelligent person looks like. I real feel sorry for your kids but who knows, maybe they'll luck out and your wife will leave you before they grow up, getting full custody, ahahahaha. Bye douchebag. {{unsigned\|69.157.105.101}}

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	:::''attractive, successful and intelligent''
	::::You forgot ''charming and polite''. Your mother must be so proud of the job she did at bringing you up. Such a nice well spoken person. ] 07:11, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

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	Yeah exactly, she is proud, especially since I don' take crap from ignorant, far-leftist opinion pushing douchebags like yourself. The way you understand population genetics is news to me, but then again this is YOU were are talking about so its not like your opinion really matters in the world being such a failure in life. Also, I shouldnt insult your wife so much, I mean its not her fault she ended up with an ugly, nerdy, loser-ass, failure like yourself. Maybe she'll come to her senses soon enough. (We is hoping she comes to her senses, haha.){{unsigned\|69.157.105.101}}

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	:Hello trolling anonymous. I vouch for Alun, even though we disagree politically. On matters of culture, Alun and I are "in sync" 110%. Other chief editors of that article, such as TharkunColl and Enzed Brit, share more or less the same consensus. To top it off, we have had many bitter discussions. Despite all that, we have a consensus. Get an account and come visit on the article's talk page, with polite discussion. We would be grateful if you could bring some of that over there, because virtuous and altruistic contributions are stellar. ] 09:25, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

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Latest revision as of 02:37, 30 October 2024

Need you to point me in the right direction

I'd need a professional body statement (such as the APA, AAA or AAPA statements on race) from biologists and/or geneticists on what they think about the subject of "race"... This is of course for the R&I article. Please let me know if anything comes to mind. Thanks in advance.--Ramdrake (talk) 15:17, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Mea culpa

I'd like to personally apologize for failing to re-check the source of that passage when you suggested it. I should have, but didn't, relying upon my earlier notation instead. I posted the full citation of the passage on the talkpage. Thanks, --Aryaman (talk) 14:34, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

No problem. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Appreciate it. Alun (talk) 15:47, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Shagrat-Pink Jackets Required.png

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Thanks

I never thanked for your condolence note last year, but I appreciate it more than I can possibly express. All the best, in friendship. Guettarda (talk) 16:25, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Race and intelligence mediation

Wobble,

I've responded to you here at the mediation. slrubenstein has made some suggestions about revising the statements to adress your concerns, and I'm waiting on your approval before I do so. sorry for any confusion about my purpose on the page. --Ludwigs2 17:28, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

R&I mediation

there 's a draft of an outline at Wikipedia_talk:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/2009-11-12/Race_and_Intelligence#Proposed_outline. You have not yet commented on it, and I am preparing to give the outline to David.Kane (per current agreement in mediation) to enter a draft of the article in mainspace. There will be a review/revision period after the draft is entered in which any issues can be addressed, so if you have no immediate comment, or can't get to the mediation page to make a comment, you can participate in the review and we can address any concerns you still have there.

sorry for the bulk message. --Ludwigs2 11:02, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Race and intelligence, new draft

A new draft of the race and intelligence article is being edited into mainspace, based on discussion in mediation. It should be completed sometime on 4/1/2010. I am posting this notice to mediation participants in the hopes that those who have not contributed recently to the mediation will come back to review and comment on the draft, and help discuss any revisions that need to be made. You may make any reviews or comments at the mediation page, and we will discuss any revisions that need to be made.

I'd also ask you to leave a note for David.Kane (talk · contribs) on his talk page. Whatever your opinion of the draft itself, I think he deserves thanks for putting a lot of time and effort into making the revisions. --Ludwigs2 18:45, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Race

you might want to keep an eye on this discussion. Slrubenstein | Talk 14:34, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

2 boys image

Hi Wobble,
coming over from Commons where your image File:Twobrothers.jpg has been tagged for deletion. While the presented rationale isn't that convincing, I see a problem with personality rights as this is an indoor shot of fully identifiable non-notable people. Honestly, do you have the informed consent of the parents for broad publication of this image under a free license? --Túrelio (talk) 07:21, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Ummm, I am their parent. Alun (talk) 15:38, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Huxley races

Hi Wobble. Your map http://en.wikipedia.org/File:Huxley_races.png lists Bushmen under number 1. Because you say "map of the distribution of human races by Thomas Huxley", I am not sure whether the terms used by Huxley must stay as is. What I am getting at, is whether Bushmen should not be replaced by Bushmen (or San) and Khoikhoi. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 17:22, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I see your point. I don't know. I used the term bushmen because that is what Huxley used. I simply don't know if the people he meant correspond to the same group as what we might call San today. In general I think there would be no problem with the change though. Alun (talk) 09:59, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

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Human genetic variation article review

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Moving Burma to Myanmar - ongoing poll

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Help with article

I saw on the genetics projects page that you were interested in genetics, but not any particular genetics-speciality. Would you perhaps like to help with the genetics collaboration of the month, the genome-wide association study article? That's a fairly broad article, since it does not focus on one specific disease and I thought you perhaps could come with some input. Best. --LasseFolkersen (talk) 11:45, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

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Rosalind Franklin

You must be so looking forward to the new biography by her sister "Wobble"?

2.27.113.92 (talk) 18:50, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Bought/read it. Only thing missed out is the invitation card for the 'D.N.A. Helix' funeral... 2.30.208.50 (talk) 19:51, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Moving Burma to Myanmar - ongoing poll

This is to let you know that an ongoing poll is taking place to move Burma to Myanmar. I know this happened just recently but no administrator would close these frequent rm's down, so here we go again. This note is going out to wikipedia members who have participated in Burma/Myanmar name changing polls in the past. It does not include banned members nor those with only ip addresses. Thank you. Fyunck(click) (talk) 00:26, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Moving Burma to Myanmar - new 2015 poll

You participated in a Burma RM in the past so I'm informing you of another RM. I hope I didn't miss anyone. New move attempt of Burma>Myanmar Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:12, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Problematic Phylogeny Diagram from 2007

Hi Wobble, I see that you are the author of this diagram, from 2007: https://commons.wikimedia.org/File:Molecular_lineage.png My impression is that it was intended to illustrate some basic concept about phylogeny in a generic way. However, unfortunately, with the letters A and B on it, it is being taken quite literally by some readers who have written to me. They are supposing that there is some unnamed, "Ancestral Haplogroup" ancestral to human Y-DNA haplogroups A and B, and which still survives to the present. They have been barraging me with questions as to whether it is A00, or what it would be. I participated as a volunteer project admin in the discovery of A00, and was a co-author of the paper about it in the AJHG. I'm continuing research on A00, so people are looking to me for the scoop. I keep telling them that there is no "third branch" as they are thinking. Do you think we could come up with a diagram that will illustrate phylogenetics in a way that is not going to give them the wrong idea? Thanks! Iris-J2 (talk) 18:02, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

The image is clearly a schematic of how mutations arise, and not meant to be representative of the actual Y chromosome phylogeny. After all, that itself is under constant review as new mutations are discovered, and the mutations aren't labelled as Y chromosome mutations would be, after all, haplogroup B is defined by B-M60, and I don't label that mutation as B-M60. Also there must have been an an ancestral Y chromosome to haplogroup A, that fact it is no longer extant doesn't mean it never existed. I don't mean to seem rude, but what I'm hearing from you is "some people are just too stupid to understand a simple schematic". This is an encyclopedia, it doesn't contain original research, it should contain explanations and illustrations that aid understanding of concepts. I made this image a very long time ago, and I haven't been involved in Misplaced Pages seriously for six years or more, I got very burned out with the constant wikilawyering and politicking. Personally I think the image is clearly illustrative of a concept, and obviously not meant to be taken literally. It's not a great image, I am sure that many people could produce something far more aesthetically pleasing, I don't pretend to be very good at drawing, I only wanted to help people understand why Y chromosome mutations are sequential and define haplogroups. I really don't care what you do, put it up for deletion, whatever. I'm done giving my time to help people who only ever attack and criticise you for it. I don't particularly feel responsible for the fact that some people are too stupid to grasp the basic concept of a schematic. Alun (talk) 04:31, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

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File:Polcomwobble.png listed for discussion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Polcomwobble.png, has been listed at Misplaced Pages:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. ✗plicit 07:06, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

WikiProject Anarchism checking in

Hey there! I noticed you're on the WikiProject Anarchism members list, but you don't appear to have edited in this subject area for some time. Just in case you're still interested, here's a little update:

In the past couple years, we have brought four articles to Featured status, including the ones on Nestor Makhno, La Salute è in voi, The May Pamphlet and "The Day Before the Revolution". We're likely to get even more to this status in the near future, so stay tuned to the front page for some of our best articles on the platform.
A number of our most vital articles have been reviewed and achieved Good Article status, including ones on Gaetano Bresci, Camilo Cienfuegos, Joseph Déjacque, Luigi Galleani, Paul Goodman, and the Kronstadt rebellion. As these "vital articles" are generally considered among the most important on the platform, we aim to get as many as possible to GA and FA status over the coming years.
We recently hit the first milestone for our stub-expansion project, getting the number of stubs down to under 1/5th of our total articles. This means that the vast majority of our articles are now relatively substantial, as we expand and add greater detail to the articles that lack sufficient information. We hope to narrow this number down even further, so more articles have the information they deserve.
We just started a cleanup drive, in which we are aiming to resolve the problematic parts of our articles, from finding citations for unsourced sections to fixing up formatting errors. In doing this, we intend to make sure our articles provide the best possible reading experience, without unsourced claims or ugly tags littering the page.

If you want to get more involved in the project, please feel free! We always need an extra pair of hands to help out with our ever-growing project. If you want to help out with one of the above efforts, go right ahead. If you want to keep more up to date with the project's activities, consider adding our noticeboard to your watchlist or adding your name to our mailing list. On the other hand, if you think you're time with the project is over, then consider removing your name from the members list, but we do hope you're still interested in our wee project.

All the best to you, whatever your future plans are. Regards, --Grnrchst (talk) 11:15, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Multi-locus allele clusters

Template:Multi-locus allele clusters has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:59, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Invitation to participate in a research

Hello,

The Wikimedia Foundation is conducting a survey of Wikipedians to better understand what draws administrators to contribute to Misplaced Pages, and what affects administrator retention. We will use this research to improve experiences for Wikipedians, and address common problems and needs. We have identified you as a good candidate for this research, and would greatly appreciate your participation in this anonymous survey.

You do not have to be an Administrator to participate.

The survey should take around 10-15 minutes to complete. You may read more about the study on its Meta page and view its privacy statement .

Please find our contact on the project Meta page if you have any questions or concerns.

Kind Regards,

WMF Research Team

BGerdemann (WMF) (talk) 19:27, 23 October 2024 (UTC)