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== Pericles FAC ==
==Mephistopheles==
This is Rich Dengrove, the fellow who contributed to the article on Mephistopheles. You doubted that Michael Psellos had talked about an order of demons called the Misophaes, or Light Haters. You said you wanted either the passage itself or a citation. Being lazy and not being able to read Greek, I will give you the citation of my source, Jeffrey Russell. J.P.Migne, ed., ''Patrologia Graeca'', "On the Work of the Demons," 122.819-876. Also, The "Life of Saint Auxentius," ed. Perikles-Petros Joannou,''Démonologie populaire, démonologie critique au XIe siécle: La vie inédite de S. Auxence, par M. Psellos'' (Wiesbaden, 1971). I would have written the title of the first article in Greek but I am not certain which of the letters below are equivalent. If need be,I will make this citation into a PDF file and send it to you.


Yours,
I see things have been getting a little heated over at the Pericles FAC; I respect your objection, and I'm going to do what I can to address it, but please don't inflame the situation. I don't know if you've ever nominated an article, but it's a pretty stressful process, and while that isn't an excuse to misbehave, or a reason for reviewers not to make valid objections, it is a good reason to avoid antagonizing the nominator. Objecting on the basis of a need for a proofread is fine, but changing that to a strong objection, or slapping a {{tl|cleanup-date}} tag on the article, the latter of which in particular is a bit over the top given the relatively minor nature of the problems with the article, simply isn't productive. Anyway, thanks for participating in the discussion--the article has improved already as a result of your comments--and hopefully we can improve this thing to everyone's satisfaction soon. --]<sup>]</sup> 14:11, 25 August 2006 (UTC)


Rich Dengrove ]
== Cyrus the Great ==


== Incivility at ] ==
I really don't get why you changed the opening paragraphs to ]. I'm trying to maintain a two paragraph introduction considering the length of the article, yet you seem to disagree. Would you mind explaining, in details please, what was wrong with this introduction:
:'''Cyrus ]''' (]: Kuruš,<ref name="cyrus1">Jona Lendering, '''' (Old Persian Kuruš; Hebrew Kores): founder of the Achaemenid empire.</ref> ]: کوروش, Kourosh; ca. ] or ] &mdash; July ]), also known as '''Cyrus II of Persia''' and '''Cyrus the Elder''', was the founder of the ] under the ]. As the ruler of the ] in ], he conquered the ] and unified the two separate ] kingdoms.''


Please do not make derisive and/or maligning comments about me (or any other editor) in article/guideline talk page discussions as you did recently at ] . Announcing your opinion about another editor, that he is ''"prepared to be disruptive for years until he gets his way"'', is taunting, baiting, maligning and generally contrary to the type of behavior encouraged at ].<p>If you have an issue with an editor's behavior, please take it up in an appropriate forum, normally starting with that editor's talk page, for which this post may serve as an example. Thank you. --] (]) 01:04, 31 December 2010 (UTC)<p>
:In the historical ], discovered in the ancient ruins of ], Cyrus identifies himself as the ], where he reigned from ] until his death. Under his rule, the empire entered a phase of expansion, eventually gaining dominion over most of ] to create the largest nation the world had ever seen.


{{stop}} You made another derisive comment about me . You, wrote, about a suggestion I made, ''"This would worsen Misplaced Pages - although it would help B2C's long term agenda."''. Sharing vague conjectures about another editor's "long term agenda" in such a blatantly negative light can have no purpose other than to malign that editor, and is highly inappropriate. WP:CIVIL clearly states, ''" Stated-simply, editors should always treat each other with consideration and respect."''. Statements like this are not examples of how editors ''"treat each other with consideration and respect."'' Second request in two days. Please stop. --] (]) 23:00, 31 December 2010 (UTC)<p>
I'd appreciate it. I could understand changing "ever" to "yet" and maybe even "nation" to "empire," but removing his reign information from the intro (not the first time you've done this) is just bizarre from my point of view. ] ] 21:02, 25 August 2006 (UTC)


And this one too: ''"We need to ignore Born2Cycle's persistent and solitary efforts to destabilize."'' Characterizing the efforts of another editor as "persistent and solitary efforts to destabilize" is uncivil. Again, if you have an issue with an editor's behavior, you should take it up in an appropriate forum; a guideline talk page is not that. --] (]) 00:51, 1 January 2011 (UTC)<p>
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This is Rich Dengrove, the fellow who contributed to the article on Mephistopheles. You doubted that Michael Psellos had talked about an order of demons called the Misophaes, or Light Haters. You said you wanted either the passage itself or a citation. Being lazy and not being able to read Greek, I will give you the citation of my source, Jeffrey Russell. J.P.Migne, ed., ''Patrologia Graeca'', "On the Work of the Demons," 122.819-876. Also, The "Life of Saint Auxentius," ed. Perikles-Petros Joannou,''Démonologie populaire, démonologie critique au XIe siécle: La vie inédite de S. Auxence, par M. Psellos'' (Wiesbaden, 1971). I would have written the title of the first article in Greek but I am not certain which of the letters below are equivalent. If need be,I will make this citation into a PDF file and send it to you.


Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at ] regarding reason for discussion. The thread is ].The discussion is about the topic ]. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you. —] (]) 01:24, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
Yours,


==Wikiquette==
Rich Dengrove ]
I'd like to ask you to back off and concentrate on doing something a little more constructive in this new year, such as some actual editing or maybe even creating new articles. To avoid any accusations of favouritism, I am simultaneously making the same request to those who have been your opponents in recent arguments. I don't want to see good/potentially good contributors slipping into this cycle (forgive the pun) of mutual recrimination and the constant arguments are becoming more than a little irritating. ] (]) 14:08, 1 January 2011 (UTC)


:I'm glad you took the short break but hope that you can stay away from B2C from now on - otherwise you may end up getting a kicking and that's not the outcome I would prefer. ] (]) 22:39, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
== Pristina article ==


== ''The Signpost'': 3 January 2011 ==
I think you failed to realise there is a survey already going on at the top of the page :) I reverted your edit. Feel free to contribute to the debate already started. Thanks, ]] <sup><small>]</small></sup> 18:06, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
::Ooops! You're quicker than I. ]] <sup><small>]</small></sup> 18:07, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


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== Pericles ==
{{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2011-01-03}}
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<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''']''' · ] · ] · ] (]) 00:59, 4 January 2011 (UTC)</div>
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== Wave dash ==
I thought I should inform you that Robth gave ] a thorough copy-edit and proof-reading. I also gave it an additional proof-reading. I assumed you may want to check the changes.


I removed the wave dash from that section on WP:MOS-JA for two reasons:
I just donot feel well to see the ] closed without a final comment of you, especially after the debate we had. A debate which actually led to a further improvement of the article (according to my point of view). Thereby, I am obliged to acknowledge that I was unfair towards you and that your critical comments initiated these significant improvements. Whatever is you final stance (object or support), you have my sincere thanks (without any ambiguous wording, I hope, this time).--] 18:22, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
#Its usage is currently under discussion on the talk page, and there is a consensus that perhaps it should be brought up for a greater discussion and
#There is no reason to explain why a particular character should not be used twice on the same page. It is already covered in ].
Please do not revert, again, and instead initiate discussion on the talk page like a normal editor.—] (]) 02:33, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
:Thank you for announcing your revert war. Unless you are doing so again, please stay off my talk page. ] <small>]</small> 02:38, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
::Maybe you shouldn't start them yourself. I have added content concerning the wave dash back to that section, but it is not necessary to have it prohibited twice on the same page, particularly if there is a consensus that it should not be prohibited. Perhaps there would not be a revert war if editors such as yourself and Jpatokal did not find themselves to be the police of ] and the other manuals of style.—] (]) 02:43, 4 January 2011 (UTC)


==One last try==
== Presidential terms (March 3 vs. March 4) ==
'''THIS MESSAGE IS FOR USERS Pmanderson AND Born2cycle'''


Okay, this really ''is'' my last attempt to avoid one or both of you getting blocked. Please please please will you consider the following course of action?
Thank you for your helpful input at ]. There has been a "March 3 at 11:59 vs. March 4 at noon" controversy on the presidential and congressional articles for too long and I've glad we've been able to assemble the evidence that should resolve the matter. Regards, ] 00:53, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


1. Voluntarily stay away from the following pages for a period of one month:
*]
*]
*] - it's time for someone else to make the decision to close this down
*one another's talk pages
*the talk pages of articles that you have previously had disagreements over
2. Stop feeling that you need to have the last word - that isn't any kind of victory


If you could both find the self-discipline to follow this suggestion (which I realise I have no right to make), I feel sure you would not regret it in the long run. ] (]) 18:22, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
== Misophaes ==


== Lady Elizabeth Cromwell ==


Hi. Can you clear this doubt for me please? Was the title of Baron Cromwell, said of Oakham, of Gregory Cromwell a new title or the old title of Baron Cromwell, said of Wimbledon, with its attainder lifted? ] (]) 16:47, 10 January 2011 (UTC) cracroftspeerage.co.uk says it is the same title, but thepeerage.com says otherwise. ] (]) 16:49, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
This is Rich Dengrove on Psellos and his Misophaes. Am I up to finding a copy of Migne's Patrologia Graeca? That's a question. On the other hand, I am up to remembering that User:RDengrove doesn't work and ] does. I could have sworn I tested the link beforehand but I guess I didn't.


== ] ==
==''Signpost'' updated for August 28th==


Thank you, then. So, there was never a case where the attainder was lifted only for the smaller titles? Or is it just in case of restoration of a forfeiture? ] (]) 21:44, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
]

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== ''The Signpost'': 10 January 2011 ==

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{{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2011-01-10}}
</div><!--Volume 7, Issue 2-->
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''']''' · ] · ] · ] (]) 05:34, 11 January 2011 (UTC)</div>
<!-- EdwardsBot 0100 -->

== ] ==

You are probably aware that ''']''' has been significantly changed by me recently at the request of {{admin|Elonka}} on my talk page. I replied to her request there , mentioning that I had previously added quite a lot of content related to Hadamard to wikipedia, including a stub ''']''', needed for another article on spherical functions. Her request resulted in the correction and expansion of ''']''' (together with the redirect ''']''') and the doubling and restructuring of the disambiguation page. I had not finished adding content. You made two small grammatical corrections which were mathematically not quite accurate and I made the statements more precise. You reverted my changes, claiming hounding. But that showed no recognition of the fact that I had in fact been making major changes to that page and articles linking to it. This morning I restored my changes and, having in the meantime created ], then added it in the relevant section (complex analysis and convexity). You removed that new link in your edits, with an edit summary ]. But my last edit summary clearly had "+ 3 lines". You apparently did not check to see what that meant, and so removed the link to the new article I had just created. I wonder if you could please try to act more reasonably? You have followed me to a disambiguation article which I was requested to improve by an administrator, despite being very busy in real life (hence the wikibreak from articles). Please could you stop removing links to new wikipedia articles from the disambiguation page? I have no idea why you have been doing so. ] (]) 16:04, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

== Uhhh ==

... that's not "ethnic pointmaking" but a straight forward application of the Danzig/Gdansk vote: ''For Gdansk and other locations that share a history between Germany and Poland, the first reference of one name in an article should also include a reference to other names, e.g. Danzig (now Gdańsk, Poland) or Gdańsk (Danzig)'', hence it should be "] (Wałbrzych)" etc. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 19:19, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

:You keep accusing me of having some idiosyncratic interpretation of the vote. How else would you "interpret" ''For Gdansk and other locations that share a history between Germany and Poland''??? Clearly the place shares a history between Germany and Poland. How else would you "interpret" ''the first reference of one name in an article should also include a reference to other names''. The first reference to Waldenburg appears and hence it "should also include a reference to other names" - Walbrzych. There's not much room for interpretation here, it's all pretty straightforward. Your accusation is completely specious and perhaps bad faithed.<small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 22:39, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== How to title an article ==

In order to address the argument that without specific naming conventions article titling would be chaotic and unpredictable, I've attempted to describe the process of determining a title that clearly shows that usually specific naming conventions are not needed. I'm asking a few select individuals to look at it before I open it for general review at ].

If you could take a few minutes to review it and let me know what you think, I would really appreciate it. Do you think we could incorporate this or something like it into ]? Thanks. Here is the link: ]. Please leave your comments on the talk page of that subpage, ]. --] (]) 21:43, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Thanks + mediation suggestion ==

Thank you for your support. There is one place I could offer my services as a mediator on this subject - ], which per previous amendment is the one and only forum where I can discuss all issues. If you'd explain the situation there, I and perhaps others could try to offer our input there. PS. Your page could use archiving. Perhaps you could use automatic archiving, like on my page? It is quite simple, and I could even set it up for you. --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</span></sub> 00:35, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
:Nope, but it could be that I just don't use them. Try asking about it at ]. --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</span></sub> 02:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

== Ok, how about we try to start this over again ==

From the beginning, clean slate.

*I made my edit with the understanding that the Gdanzig vote was still in force.
*I have never seen anything anywhere that would indicate that the Gdanzig vote is no longer valid. It has been quoted at me, it has been invoked recently by others, all the templates pertaining to it are still up on all the relevant articles' talk pages. So even if it is no longer applicable, please excuse me for thinking otherwise. My edit was made entirely in good faith (I admit to getting somewhat pissed off when you came in obviously assuming otherwise)
*I have been editing Misplaced Pages for more than six years. During that time, I've observed that the Gdanzig vote, however "lame" it may be, is one of the few rare examples of a Misplaced Pages policy decision that has actually worked.
*It has worked in the sense that it clears up practice and prevents multiple edit wars. For better or worse (better, actually), editors, even die hard POV warriors seem to respect it (maybe because it is sort of famous, even outside Misplaced Pages).
*Without the Gdanzig vote, pretty much every single article on Polish-German places, where naming is in doubt is a potential edit war magnet. This in fact is the situation that led to the vote.
*There are actually almost (except for an occasional flare up, usually involving new editors) NO edit wars or disputes on German-Polish articles where geographic naming is concerned. And this is mostly due to the existence of the Gdanzig vote (same thing is not true about articles on persons - but that's because the vote is unclear in that regard). You get rid of the Gdanzig vote, you're opening up a Pandora's box.
*On the other hand Ukrainian/Russian naming conventions or Polish/Lithuanian ones or Romanian/Hungarian ones or whatever, are still a source of perennial disputes - this suggests that the problem in these areas is actually a LACK of a specific hard guideline. The problem is not with the Gdanzig vote, but with the fact that similar policies haven't been developed for other dispute prone areas.
*It does not degrade the quality of the article in anyway - in fact it improves it - to provide additional information about the present day name of the places.

The reason I'm quite irked by this is that I was actually at the article because I noticed that there is no Misplaced Pages articles on the ] - a certifiably German family (though one of the more recent members volunteered for the Polish army in WWII) (and if it counts for anything, had I been around when the RM for the article was ongoing I would've voted for "Duchy of Pless" since that appears to be the name used in English sources), and a very interesting one at that. They deserve to have an article on them and I happen to have some materials (including images, like for example the image of a statue of Daisy (which I uploaded , but also some sources) on them and I was thinking about creating a series of relevant articles and writing it up. Now I'm not so sure I should even bother.

So how about just letting the dispute go, restoring the names per Gdanzig vote, and then we can discuss the present relevancy of the vote to naming conventions - I also happen to think that it should be updated in some respects but that's a big issue that hasn't been addressed before and it lies outside the scope of this particular provincial disagreement. Cheers.<small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 08:28, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

== Nomination of ] for deletion ==

<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">]</div>The article ''']''' is being discussed concerning whether it is suitable for inclusion as an article according to ] or whether it should be ].

The article will be discussed at ] until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. -- ] (]) 17:26, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

== Margaret Pole ==

* She was née Plantagenet because her brother and father and other relatives used that surname. If not, then someone should correct those articles too.
* According to the list and succession of the creations of the title of ], she's the 8th Countess. I've never heard of any doubt, specially since it's such a clear and high title. If the title came through female line, from Montagu to Neville, as it did, then he was its heir. Also, in every publications such as ''Les Dynasties d' Europe'' or Alison Weir's, ''Britain's Royal Family: A Complete Genealogy'' (London, U.K.: The Bodley Head, 1999), page 137, and ], editor's, '']'', 106th edition, 2 volumes (Crans, Switzerland: Burke's Peerage (Genealogical Books) Ltd, 1999), volume 1, page 16 mention her brother as Earl of Warwick, a title that also fell into female lines.
* She was also 10th and 7th Baroness Montacute, two peerages that have no connection to the one of Baron Montagu of her son. On ], you can see how she became, after her brother, the heiress of both titles.

] (]) 15:59, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

:I understand now: it was like the new Dukedoms of Lancaster and Norfolk. All the titles of these houses were inherited, except the Dukedoms, that had to be recreated. ] has been untiring in removing the "surname" Platagenet from other articles, but he stated that it had become a surname only later, and later means York. Apparently, it was never a surname per se, only a nickname.
:The title of Earl of Warwick should've been inherited, as the title of Earl of Salisbury, by the issue of the Kingmaker, but if they were forfeit and never restored, regranted instead despite in the heirs of the forfeited ones, then it explains it all.
:It's true that eve the Royal Succession followed a Semi-Salic Law, and for that reason so would the titles. But there were cases in which they followed female line succession: the Earldoms of Warwick and Salisbury did, and even the claim to the Royal succession through the Duke of Clarence was valid by primogeniture and mere male preference, and Henry VII was the heir of the Lancasters not by virtue of semi-salic succession but my male preference only; see also ] and ], ] and other contemporary baronies: the first two titles went through female line, dispossessing the actual families of those names, the ones of the Earls of Northampton and the Earls of Lincoln, through male preference, and the second ones fell into female line, either through semi-salic or male preference succession.

] (]) 16:36, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

::So Henry IV was the heir by taking the power from Richard II rather than being the closest male heir in male line. And the same went with Edward IV, already in dispute with Henry VI despite the existance of other legitimized Lancaster males, already dead at the time Henry VI died. And, more obviously, Henry VII.
::In conclusion: despite the Earldoms of Warwick and Salisbury having been granted to the son-in-law of the last holder, they become new creations because they were not succeeded nor abeyant by his daughters; the two Baronies Montacute became abeyant, never used again, but with the attainder that was put upon the Poles and later lifted, the titles were out of claim, and then back again, as they remain today.
::The doubt, or certainty: was Margaret Countess of Salisbury as a "new new" title or the successor of her father? Since his father house was forfeit and her brother (who might have been Earl of Warwick just by courtesy, as it became use then) did not use the title of Earl of Salisbury and this title could not fall into abeyance nor be succeeded by a woman, then we conclude that it was a new title, like the 1st Marchioness of Pembroke.

] (]) 16:58, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

== Requested move - Chihuahua (state) ==

You once were involved into an article naming discussion of ]. There is now a new move request you might be interested in: ] ] (]) 00:26, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

== Corrections ==

If they were never Plantagenet, then you should correct and move the articles on ] and his issue. If he and his son were surnamed Plantagenet, then you should readd it to Margaret Pole. Apparently, according to your edits on article ], he was the first of his third creation. Since the titles were forfeit, then his daughter was the first of her creation. What was her surname, though? "of Clarence", like the "of Lancaster" and the "of York"? ] (]) 18:36, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 17 January 2011 ==

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{{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2011-01-17}}
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<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''']''' · ] · ] · ] (]) 19:15, 18 January 2011 (UTC)</div>
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue LVIII, December 2010 ==
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To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the ]. Past editions may be viewed ]. ] (]) 21:31, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
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<small>You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the ]. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. ] 06:31, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at ] regarding a unilateral move of a controversial title. The thread is ].The discussion is about the topic ]. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you. —] (]) 05:52, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
==Adminship==
Hi. I've been on holiday and didn't see the final result of your adminship nomination. You probably don't want any unsolicited comments, so I won't say anything except that I'm sure your time will come -- soon. ] 19:31, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
:I must say, I don't see why anyone should have to ''thank'' anyone for being honest. Just go on doing your thing. ] 20:09, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


== Max Mosley ==
==]==
...you know the drill! :-) ] 10:45, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


Hi. There has been an argument over the article on Max Mosley, son of the 6th Baronet Mosley, over something so simple as whether if we should include the name of his parents in law, or father in law, and information on his own children. They even claim he's not nobility. It's a false question, but some people, from outside lineages' issues, insists in not adding them. The discussion was brought up by ] on ], ] and ]. I'd thank you that you'd join with your good judgement. ] (]) at ] (]) 17:33, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
==''Signpost'' updated for September 5th.==


== Plantagenet is an anachronism ==
]

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If it is so, as you claimed, then perhaps you should clear this out: ] and other York relatives appear with the surname Plantagenet. Were they after all the only ones who used it? Also, his daughter ]'s article had (née Plantagenet) added by me and it was removed by you. Were they all Plantagenet or no one was? If the father and brother were, then so was she. If she wasn't, then neither were they. ] (]) at ] (]) 18:22, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
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== ''The Signpost'': 24 January 2011 ==
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</div><!--Volume 7, Issue 4-->
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''']''' · ] · ] · ] (]) 01:21, 25 January 2011 (UTC)</div>
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==Archiving==
I came here to ask a question about the NOR policy, but had difficulty getting your talk page to load, so I've archived nearly 600 kilobytes (2008–2010). I placed it all in Archive 9, so you can divide it up as you choose—or ask for the archive to be deleted. You're under no obligation to keep cut-and-paste archives, but as you'd started, I assumed you'd want to continue. Cheers, ] <small><sup>]]</sup></small> 22:52, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

==Disruption==
I've seen several AN or AN/I threads about you recently, Pma, regarding disruptive editing. If you continue to disrupt the policies and guidelines, I'm going to consider adding to those threads, or opening a user RfC. Please stop reverting, stop adding tags, and discuss issues on the talk pages when people object to your changes. ] <small><sup>]]</sup></small> 03:00, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
:Another effort by a POV-pushing editor to amke a content dispute into a conduct dispute; the mark of terminal bad faith. In fact, I have not reverted; I have consistently offered novel text, when supported on the substance. ] <small>]</small> 03:04, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

: Except of course for those notifications you are required to make. Your factfree endeavour to make a content dispute into a conduct dispute - while conducting a revert-war - is evidence of terminal bad faith. ] <small>]</small> 03:07, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

::I've posted your response here to keep the discussion in one place in case we need to refer back to it, as an attempt to resolve the dispute. You've been reverting at that page since January 20, including reverting the tags you add. Please make yourself familiar with ], which makes clear that reverting can involve different text each time.

::The bottom line is that it's not for you to decide that long-standing policy is disputed. It's a widely accepted policy, and the need to rely on secondary sources is also widely accepted. Please start a wiki-wide RfC if you want to change it. But above all I'm asking that you stop the general disruption around the project, as discussed many times recently on various pages. ] <small><sup>]]</sup></small> 03:12, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
:::I have no idea what specific incident you two are talking about, but I have to say the tone is all too familiar. To describe the root problem as succinctly as I could, it is that PMA sees himself all too often as The Decider. I suggest most everyone would agree that PMA should follow this advice: {{highlight|If there is any kind of conflict (or even potential conflict), continue with discussion on the relevant talk page, but '''do not''' take action with respect to editing the guideline, the article, or moving anything.}} Not paying heed to the meaning of these highlighted words is what turns PMA's content disputes into conduct disputes, ''every time''. --] (]) 03:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

: Please stay off my talk page. Your recent post is a claim of ownership; more editors at the moment have disagreed with the poor phrasing you defend than have agreed with it - and nobody has defended the policy it would (taken literally) support. This is a dispute; and removing the tag which indicates it will be '']'' - as well as persistent revert-warring. ] <small>]</small> 03:18, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

::As you've asked me not to post here again, this will be my last post about this. Please open a RfC if you want to change a core content policy in a way that others regard as substantive. Don't revert when there are objections, don't tag, don't insult people, just keep on discussing and asking for fresh eyes. But my point is not about that page alone. My point is that this is your ''modus operandi'' on all pages—articles, policies, and guidelines—and it seems to be causing increasing problems.

::Please see the recent threads about it on AN/I: ]; ]; ]; ]; ]; ]; ]; ]; ]. That's just a quick glance, so I may have missed some, and it doesn't include multiple 3RR reports.

::I'm asking you please to reconsider your approach, and above all not to export it to the core content policies, which a lot of people rely on, and which therefore have to be stable. ] <small><sup>]]</sup></small> 03:40, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
==hyphens==
I see you have a disruptive editing warning, but you know what? You're one of the first sane people to show up in that hellpit of absurdity in quite a while, and with cogent points; maybe it's because you make cogent points you get people accusing you of being "disruptive", just as I have been derided for allegedly "bogus claims" - things that are not claims, but are facts based in sources. Misplaced Pages is increasingly populated by asinine fools, my patience is wearing out....I may just put ''myself'' on ANI to explain my anger tonight; no doubt there'll be a formal complaint, but my response is I'm t he one who has a grievance - against fools, obstructionists, and downright contrarian assholes intent on defending the indefensible by any means necessary. I'm choked at what else my wiki-energy could be spent on than picking up broken things and trying to find enough people to help me get them fixed; instead i find people who insist that they're not broken and don't need fixing, and I'm in the wrong for saying they are....what a waste of fucking time; have a look at the Ckatz item on the bottom of my talkpage, where I talk about all the topics/issues that I keep on my watchlist and watch over (not "OWN", but guard from spin trolls etc) and the things I ''could'' be contributing to Misplaced Pages. Instead of having to get proper spelling re-introduced because it was changed by some stupid fool who doesn't know about the subjects affected, nor cares...they only care about their precious vision of typography...all style, not substance....I'd rather be working on content than trying to get format fixed all the time...and extremely aggravated that my local variety of English is being told its' wrong by people on another continent, "deciding what's best for teh colonies", apparently.....] (]) 08:03, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:#000000; background-color:#aa9944; border-width:1px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">]

] (]) has bought you a whisky! Sharing a whisky is a great way to bond with other editors after a day of hard work. Spread the ] by buying someone else a whisky, whether it be someone with whom you have collaborated or had disagreements. Enjoy! <br />
Spread the good cheer and camaraderie by adding {{tlsu|User:HJ Mitchell/WikiScotch}} to their talk page with a friendly message. <small>Message received at 12:59, 31 January 2011 (UTC)</small></div><!-- User:HJ Mitchell/WikiScotch -->

== ''The Signpost'': 31 January 2011 ==

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<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''']''' · ] · ] · ] (]) 02:17, 1 February 2011 (UTC)</div>
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== Whiskey ==

Thanks. I rarely drink, but very occasionally a malt whiskey without ice or water is called for. ] ] 07:42, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 7 February 2011 ==

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== ] of ] ==
]] has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at ].<!--Template:Tfdnotice--> -] (]) 16:37, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

== eight=a fourth of a quarter ==

After another editor accused you of baing a mathematician, I checked out your userpage on MOS. Is a quarter of a fourth eight? ] (]) 04:44, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

== 3RR warning - I'll be daring by templating a regular ;-) ==

] You currently appear to be engaged in an ]&#32; according to the reverts you have made on ]. Users who ] or refuse to ] with others may be blocked if they continue.<br>
In particular, the ] states that:
# '''Making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period is almost always grounds for an immediate block'''.
# '''Editors violating the rule will usually be blocked for 24 hours for a first incident'''.
# '''Do not edit war even if you believe you are right'''.
If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's ] to discuss controversial changes. Work towards wording, and content that represents ] among editors. You can post a request for help at an ] or seek ]. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary ]. If edit warring continues, '''you may be ] from editing without further notice.''' <!-- Template:uw-3rr --> --] ] 06:06, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

== Kaveh Farrokh ==

Hi, There is a and an RFC in about ]. Regards, ] ] 07:32, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 14 February 2011 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Volume LVIX, January 2011 ==

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To stop receiving this newsletter, please list yourself in the appropriate section ]. To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the ]. ] (]) 16:31, 21 February 2011 (UTC)</span>


== ''The Signpost'': 21 February 2011 ==
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== ''The Signpost'': 28 February 2011 ==

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== could you enlighten me ==

I just saw the phrase "stable version" in the edit summary of a page I watch. When I looked up ] to see what this meant, the tag at the top left me with only confusion. I've sworn off discussion on MOS, guideline, or policy pages because I have no hope of keeping a civil tongue with children who are neither children nor civil (or rather, they confuse communicating in a robotic manner with civility, which surely has a human component). Could you perhaps spare a moment to tell me where I might find out what is meant by "stable version"? ] (]) 22:34, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 7 March 2011 ==

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== Latimer/Latymer ==

You changed the spelling '''Latymer''' to '''Latimer''' in the titles of ] and ]. This is incorrect: ] is conventionally spelled with a ''y'', to distinguish it from the separate, older ] (although the titles are held by different branches of the same family). ] (]) 17:26, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 14 March 2011 ==

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<!-- EdwardsBot 0117 -->
==About some of your "reverts"==
Hi Pmanderson. On some pages that I have edited regularly I see you reverting. I have not seen you using talk page to explain your concern. Would you let me know why you did:
* or . Please see .
* . Please see . Also you write "restore sourced (and well-known) assertions". Did you read the source? Nothing that I removed are sourced and the sentence that is sourced is "manipulated". Look at this: the original words of the source is "Even though there are later traditions which place him in Azerbaijan and Media, it is more reasonable to locate Zoroaster somewhere in eastern Iran along with the rest of the Avesta. Further, the two Avestan dialects belong linguistically to eastern Iran." Now look what the user has added "Even though there are later traditions which place him in Azerbaijan and Media, it is more reasonable to locate Zoroaster somewhere in eastern Iran along with the rest of the Avesta. Further, the two Avestan dialects belong linguistically to eastern Iran ." Don't you think your revert was unjustified? Also did you see the source? Did you see this #''Raŋhā'' = ] in ] geography, at times mentioned together with Kubhā (Kabul) and Krumu (]), a river situated in a mountainous area, probably connected with the ], not with the ] or with the ]". This is really OR ONLY. Not in the source, not sourced...
* ...

I guess your reverts are unjustified and you should at least use the talk page to explain why you did all these sudden reverts on pages you have not previously edited (I hope I am not mistaken or otherwise sorry for that). In any case if you are going to engage in editing please let us use talk pages more often. Cheers. ] (]) 18:49, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

== Re: Please stop that ==

So if there is an article that has, consistently, what you call consolidated individual notes, you come along and correct some punctuation in the article, then another editor adds a requested citation, identical to the two surrounding ones but not "consolidated", you have now imperiously forbidden me to fix that? Come on. &nbsp;--] 06:08, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

== WP:UE Discussions ==

If you're still into ] there are some issues on these talk pages: and . <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 19:46, 17 March 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== ''The Bugle'': Issue LX, February 2011 ==

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* Project News: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Members: '']''
* Editorial: '']''
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<small>You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the ]. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. ] 06:38, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
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To stop receiving this newsletter, please list yourself in the appropriate section ]. To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the ]. ] (]) 22:32, 17 March 2011 (UTC)</span>


== 3RR ==


I have reported you for edit warring at ]. — ] (]) 03:10, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
== ] ==


== ANI ==
Thanks for the input on this move debate.--] 23:48, 9 September 2006 (UTC)


Hello, hope you are well. Your name has at ANI. ;-) --] ] 03:18, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
== ] changes to classics articles ==
Hi Paul. ] has been back making many changes to classics articles, etc. as is his right. We had had some concerns some time before about the nature and accuracy of the changes. Have you seen them ? ]. Bests. --- (Bob) ] 20:28, 10 September 2006 (UTC) (])


== Is there a problem? ==
:Thanks, Paul, for the kind and helpful reply. I agree that Randy's edits are, for the most part, if not all, in good faith. I will leave the articles as they are with his modifications and change the minor bit when we have a chance. Best Regards. --- (Bob) ] 18:42, 11 September 2006 (UTC) (])


I don't think we've ever run into each other on WP, that I can remember. I'm not sure if I've done anything to annoy you. I'm confused why you decided to suddenly (and in a rather brusque manner) oppose all of the bot requests that I have open at the moment. Is there a problem of which I am unaware, or is this your normal behavior? ]&nbsp;<sup><small>]</small></sup> 03:58, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Hi Paul. Yes, I understand all you said. I will watch as best as I can, as I hope you will. Bests. --- (Bob) ] 18:58, 11 September 2006 (UTC) (])
:You are demanding a bot which will act against clear policy;however, it is required that bots perform only non-controversial edits. You (as required) started a discussion on this subject at ]; when several people objected to your proposal, you responded ''None of these are valid reasons, in my opinion, and I believe I have refuted them all.''


:That's your opinion, on which you have no consensus. It's not the opinion of the people who disagree with you, none of who have retracted, and some of whom have actively continued to object. You should not be running a bot to do controversial things - and the use of bots to enforce stylistic preferences should be re-examined severely. ] <small>]</small> 16:44, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
:Rusty at best. Will look into the Zoe bit and if I can contribute anything reasonable. Bests. --- (Bob) ] 19:26, 11 September 2006 (UTC) (])


::To be clear, there are two people who have opposed, and one of them is you. And, I have refuted all of the opposition points. I have shown them to be logically invalid. Whether or not that causes the opposer to retract is immaterial. Also, the fact that this particular case is "controversial" is just ''your'' opinion, and it has only become controversial because of your disruptive influence on it. How can it be disruptive if ] instructs us to do exactly what the bot would be doing, ''and'' it doesn't mention that it is optional or open to stylistic interpretation. ]&nbsp;<sup><small>]</small></sup> 17:03, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
== ] ==
::::To be perfectly clear, this is two deliberate falsehoods.
::::*CBM, myself, and Gimmetoo have all opposed the proposal. It is difficult to believe that anybody could read the transcript without noticing both of them, who have been much more voluminous than myself. Uzma Gamal has made definite proposals for restriction, and has also been dismissed.
::::*As Snottywang has just , the footnote style he prefers is neither recommended nor required; the link he quotes is instructions on ''how to do it'', if you want to. (There are certainly articles on which it is desirable to do it; there are also articles on which it isn't.) He regards the giant step from this permission to imposing it everywhere as a mere "bureaucratic obstacle".
::::Please keep this editor off my talkpage while I am unable to do anything about it myself. ] <small>]</small> 21:21, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


== Blocked for edit warring ==
This is up for . This could use commentary from someone knowledgable in NT Greek. ] (]) 05:03, 11 September 2006 (UTC)


You know the drill by now, so I'm not going to give you the spiel. I fully expect you to appeal it, so I only ask that any admin reviewing this please see my rationale . ] ] 04:08, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
== Sockpuppet? ==
:Agree with this block. Having just interacted for the first time with Pmanderson a few days ago (with unsatisfactory results), and having just taken a look at his block log, it's clear that corrections to his behavior are required before he will become a productive editor. I would also second Heimstern's request that an admin considering an early unblock take a comprehensive look at the 3RR situation as well as Pmanderson's recent contributions. ]&nbsp;<sup><small>]</small></sup> 04:13, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
::PMA has generally been a productive user since early 2005, but for whatever reason has become increasingly crabby and belligerent about what are, to most readers, minor stylistic issues, fighting a somewhat Quixotic war against the imminent stylistic demise of Misplaced Pages. I think it might be better if he just stayed away from MOS issues for a while. &nbsp;--] 08:13, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
:::This is his 23rd block since 2006. Something tells me his attitude hasn't just changed recently. ]&nbsp;<sup><small>]</small></sup> 13:52, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
::::Characteristic carelessness. This counts my unblocks; that they are on the same list does not make them the same thing. ] <small>]</small> 16:45, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
For the reason Heimstern gives below, I have stayed off this talk page. However, PMAnderson is correct in stating that the number of blocks has been misstated. I count 14 prior to the current block, not 23; the remainder are indeed unblocks, mostly because he promised to stop edit warring. One of the unblocks was made with the summary "pages not clearly listed as style guidelines", suggesting that the unblocking admin considered that block to be unjustified. — ] (]) 00:36, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
:To be precise, because I have promised not to engage in some particular dispute; I am willing to disengage from anything at the request of an uninvolved admin at any time - a technique that should be tried more often. I have (elsewhere on this page) offered not to add a hyphen to the article ] for a week, if an admin thinks that helpful. (I am surprised that so many as five blocks were not reversed; I think at least one of them expired before I learned about it.) ] <small>]</small> 00:50, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


{{unblock reviewed | 1=Yes, of course I appeal. This is punitive, not preventative; as I said, before the AN3 appeal was filed, and at AN3 (Heimstern links to it), I do not intend to revert again; this block is on the basis of one edit which established a novel text and three restorations against the same revert warrior. | decline=Considering your prolonged history of edit warring, blocks, and promises not to edit war again, I agree with Heimstern Läufer's statement at ]: we need more than the limited undertakings you have given. In fact, in view of your history, the only thing about this block that seems at all questionable is that it is so short. How many times do you edit war before you are indefinitely blocked? ] (]) 12:59, 23 March 2011 (UTC)}}
ROFL. Are you my sockpuppet, or am I yours? ("I am yours, you are mine, you are what you are.") Perhaps we are both sockpuppets of ]. ] (]) 22:37, 11 September 2006 (UTC)


That Kwamikagami chose to revert (and thus he restored what we ''agree'' are errors) rather than establish his own new text, convinced me - and convinces me - that he was acting in bad faith; for that discussion, see ]. But that discussion should be conducted elsewhere. ] <small>]</small> 16:27, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
==''Signpost'' updated for September 11th.==
:Promising that you aren't going to revert again after making your fourth revert doesn't exempt you from 3RR, nor does it make the resulting block punitive. Especially when you consider the clear pattern of behavior as evidenced by your block log. An early unblock would only encourage you to continue your disruptive behavior. ]&nbsp;<sup><small>]</small></sup> 16:55, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
::The purpose of 3RR blocks, like all blocks, is preventative, not punitive. Therefore, this block was unnecessary to begin with; and doubly unnecessary since I believe, and have stated in good faith, that I made one novel edit and three reversions. (In addition, the article is protected.) I am therefore done, by anybody's reckoning - and the article has changed since then anyway. If an admin wishes to make a condition that I not restore any hyphens to the article in question for a week, I would think it Quixotic, but agree. ] <small>]</small> 21:44, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
:::One would think that after the number of blocks you've had, you'd learn that after the first revert cycle you should just start a discussion and get a consensus. If you had learned your lesson, you wouldn't have even gotten close to 3RR. And especially over something as stupid as hyphens. You're not even edit warring over words or letters anymore, now you're edit warring over a hyphen that is 5 pixels longer than a different type of hyphen. Are you here to actually improve the project, or just to start ridiculous arguments with people? <small>And you can't ask me to stay off your page and then start replying to things I've posted here in the past and expect me to not reply. Doesn't work that way.</small> ]&nbsp;<sup><small>]</small></sup> 22:17, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
::::Please stay off my talk page. ] <small>]</small> 22:30, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
===block is <s>un</s>just===
As I understand it, the basis of this one week block is PMA merely coming close to a 3RR violation, but not actually achieving it (due to not being within the 24 hour window). If true, regardless of his history, it's not reasonable to block for this, though maybe a warning is in order. And if PMA puts in writing that he won't revert again, I would believe him, simply based on my experience with him, but if that's not enough, since his reverting despite what he said would certainly be grounds to block him, why not wait and see if that occurs? I have supported long blocks for PMA in the past, but I strongly object to this particular one. It doesn't seem just at all, and I oppose injustice no matter where it is aimed. --] (]) 18:28, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
:Despite 22 blocks, he still hasn't learned that he shouldn't edit war. What makes you think a warning will work this time? ]&nbsp;<sup><small>]</small></sup> 18:46, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
::::This comment is a personal attack, and inaccurate; half of the list he is counting are unblocks. This not only exaggerates my block record but suppresses that I have been routinely unblocked. One reason to unblock me is to permit me to defend myself against this sort of thing. ] <small>]</small> 21:02, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
::Sorry, I overlooked the heading, which states the reason is for "edit warring", and went solely by the , which doesn't mention edit warring, only 3RR.<p>For edit warring I agree the block is appropriate, and would even add that just a week is insufficient, given that repeated week-long blocks in the past have clearly not been sufficient to inhibit PMA from engaging in edit-warring again, repeatedly. --] (]) 18:56, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
:::Edit warring with a single editor, who has not been blocked? I kept (I believe) exactly within the limits of 3RR, and expressed an intention to leave it there before my antagonist went to AN3. ] <small>]</small> 21:04, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
::::You'd think someone who has already been blocked for edit warring so many times would be hesitant to take situations right to the limits of 3RR. Note that ] also says: "Any appearance of gaming the system by reverting a fourth time just outside the 24-hour slot is likely to be treated as a 3RR violation." ]&nbsp;<sup><small>]</small></sup> 21:18, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
:::::Please stay off my talk page. ] <small>]</small> 21:23, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
::::Yes, edit warring with a single editor who has not been blocked. It only takes two to edit war, and, because of his history, he was warned, while you, because of yours, were blocked. Asking people to stop posting on your page once they clearly explain where you've gone astray probably does not help improve your reputation. --] (]) 21:31, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
:::::As you can see, I'm not asking you to stop - merely the overbearing editor who wants a bot to do something which is flamingly controversial, and who takes his revenge for my opposition by falsifying my block record. We need not enter your long history of quarrelling with me - yet. ] <small>]</small> 21:37, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
:Yet another obvious example of edit warring, user blindly reverts my edits, ignoring my contributions without so much as a comment. I was tempted to file an ANI notice until I found that he was already blocked. These types of users need harsh punishments for their obvious lack of cooperation, when it has been proven time and time again. Let it stand and give them time to think about their actions. ] 22:39, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
:{{tmbox
| type = style
| image = ]
| text =
'''<big>Please come to IRC.</big>''' <br> By the looks of your question, I think it would be best to have you log on to ]. IRC stands for "]", which allows for real-time text-based communication with other users. This way, in addition to the help I can provide, I can get others on to help you, as well. Here is , so you don't have to download anything to talk to us! We are waiting for you.
}}


Please get ] (posting as an underline) ''and'' his Delta off my talk page. It would be nice if you would then return to consider the unblock request, but that's less important to me right now. As Deacon (my compliments) "I really dislike the apparent bullying here. PMAnderson is entitled to his opinions without those whose proposals he opposes jumping on to his talk page and kicking him while he's down." ] <small>]</small> 22:47, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
]
::Your actions and your record speak for themselves, I doubt there's much I could do to influence the admin who will eventually handle your unblock request. In any case, this is my last post on your page for the moment, unless you decide to reengage with me in the future. Enjoy your week. ]&nbsp;<sup><small>]</small></sup> 23:03, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
{| width="90%" cellspacing="0" align="center"
:::I obviously disagree with Pmanderson on the merits of the block, but I fully agree with his request that Snottywong stay off this page. It amounts to kicking him when he's down, which is unacceptable, and I'm prepared to enforce this as needed. ] ] 23:20, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
|-
::::Much obliged. ] <small>]</small> 23:23, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
| colspan=3 |
:::::While I'm here, I should mention that I'm going to be away from the computer today, so the community should take charge as it comes to both dealing with people kicking Pmanderson and (probably more importantly) making any decisions on this block. ] ] 23:39, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
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{{tmbox
| type = style
| image = ]
| text =
'''<big>Please come to IRC.</big>''' <br> By the looks of your question, I think it would be best to have you log on to ]. IRC stands for "]", which allows for real-time text-based communication with other users. This way, in addition to the help I can provide, I can get others on to help you, as well. Here is , so you don't have to download anything to talk to us! We are waiting for you.
}}

While I'm gone, I would appreciate a decision on the unblock above. As several people have said at AN3, the 3RR is shaky; even Heimstern considered no blocks, or two. I have already said I have no intention of continuing the edit war (and have offered concrete assurances I will not) - and I cannot in any case, since the article is protected. Is this protective? If so, what is it protecting? (And if there is an answer to that question, what further assurances will be necessary.) ] <small>]</small> 03:40, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
: Hello, Pmanderson. I invite you to join us in the IRC help channel ({{IRC|wikipedia-en-help}}). We are a group of editors standing by, wanting to help anyone who needs it. Since IRC is real-time communication between editors, we will be able to resolve the situation far more quickly than through talk page communication. We're waiting to help you! ~ ] <sup>]</sup> 03:55, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
::Well, I've tried that. Unfortunately, I will be unable to take advantage of the channel for about twelve hours; please let me know. ] <small>]</small> 14:58, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
::: I'm sorry, apparently you came during the time that I was hanging lights for my school's spring production. I invite you to try again, and this time ask for me specifically. My nick is matthewrbowker. If you type it into the channel, my computer pings me. I'd be more than willing to talk. Please remember that IRC is live chat, so there may be other conversations going on at the same time. Pinging me is the best way to get my attention. ~ ] <sup>]</sup> 04:36, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

==Renewed appeal==
{{unblock reviewed | 1=In looking into this, I see there is a quarrel at Coandă-1910. Can I please go offer a constructive suggestion there, and return to editing content elsewhere? I pushed 3RR, and should not have done so; but I had resolved (see link above) not to continue with the matter before it was brought to AN3. If the unblocking admin wants, I will promise (and I have always kept such promises) not to add hyphens to Mexican-American War for a week, the issue on which the edit war was founded. | decline=You already have an appeal underway. You also do not set the conditions of unblock - indeed, stopping "for a week" is not useful; stopping completely might be beneficial. Please allow for full discussion and decision on your original unblock request - there is no "parole" in ordetr to go comment elsewhere (]<span style="border:1px solid black;">'''&nbsp;]&nbsp;'''</span>]) 11:44, 21 March 2011 (UTC)}}

:You could of disscused it on the talk page. And also not adding them for 1 week? Maybe that it should be when there is consensus that you put the hyphens. ~~'''Awsome''' ] <sup>]</sup><sub>]</sub> 19:14, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
::See ]; little else has been discussed for the past two weeks - and there has already been consensus (as judged by a neutral admin) what the article should be called; a dissident handful is being disruptive. I have little intention of meddling further with the text at all; I want to go do other things, and thus demonstrate my good faith; but am reluctant to make open-ended promises. ] <small>]</small> 19:41, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
::Please note that the ''first'' unblock request above has been ignored, by everybody including BWilkins - which was why I made a second. ] <small>]</small> 01:27, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

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== ''The Signpost'': 21 March 2011 ==

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==Welcome back==
Welcome back. ] (]) 08:19, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
:Yes, garlands of flowers in the streets and all that. ] (]) 14:45, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

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== ''The Signpost'': 4 April 2011 ==

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== Repeated interruptions on my talk page ==

Good grief! You have interrupted 4 times to complain about what another editor said about Fowler's guide? How about taking it up with the editor who made the claim, instead of beating me up? Better yet, find an article that needs fixing. ]&nbsp;] 00:05, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
:I thought I had made it clear on the WT:MOS page that I do not welcome your advice. Apparently that message was missed. OK, here it is again: I do not welcome your advice. ]&nbsp;] 03:21, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

== St Pancras International - naming controversy ==

Hello,
Since you took part in this before, you might like to know that there is a revived proposal under discussion at ]. -- ] (]) 20:19, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 11 April 2011 ==

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== Demotic speakers ==

The usage of this term to refer to Greeks is deemed somewhat offensive.Please note that next time it is encountered you will be reported to tha administrators' noticeboard. I would also thank you to limit your response to this page and please stay off my talk page. Thank you and have a nice day.--] (]) 08:03, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

== ] ==

Please stop changing the first sentence of ] by introducing ideas that significantly move away from the title of the article. If you don't know what you're doing please read ] or open a discussion on the talk page. Otherwise this might be seen as vandalism. Than you. ] (]) 08:46, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

== hyphen in that book ==

Check Amazon Reader. It clearly uses an endash, the hyphens it uses are way shorter. --] (]) 03:25, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

== Re: ] ==

You may want to move your comment to the new move for better visibility. And you may want to elaborate a bit, I am not sure I understand what you meant :) --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</span></sub> 20:06, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

== High Dynamic Range Imaging ==

A few days ago, you moved ] to ], but not the corresponding article. The result is that the article is at “H-D-R Imaging”, but the talk page at “HDR Imaging” (without hyphens). I was wondering if there is a rationale behind this discrepancy, or if it was just a mistake? Many thanks. &mdash; ] 18:01, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
:Looks like an oversight to me, so I've undone the move, in the interest of having the article and talk pages under the same title. I'd suggest a ] discussion to figure out which title is better. --] (]) 18:10, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
:Um, don't suppose you could _finish_ that move, instead of leaving it half-done again? --] (]) 18:16, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
:::Never mind, fixed the archives myself. --] (]) 18:31, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
::Now that was confusing. Thanks for sorting this out, guys :) &#8212; ] 18:21, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

== WT:MOS discussion ==

Would you stop bringing into question the notability of the subject as it concerns what language the reliable sources concerning the subject would normally be found in? It is distracting from the discussion as to whether or not the "KABA.chan" (or any variation of "KABA"/"Kaba" separated from "Chan"/"chan" by a full stop) is allowed. I have found you obfuscate the topic way too often in discussions that I have had with you.—] (]) 20:15, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
:Nope. It is no more confusing that the (counterfactual) claim that there are no sources in English. Since there are, we should follow them. If there were not, we should be justified in ''asking'' whether the subject were notable. If there is an AfD, let me know; I expect to vote to '''Keep'''. ] <small>]</small> 20:20, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
::I did not claim that there were no sources in English. I only claimed that there were no ''reliable'' sources in English. IMDB and ANN are not reliable and as I explained, but that should not exclude the fact that reliable Japanese language sources exist to support his notability. Either way, it does not help the discussion on how we should the title the article on this individual.—] (]) 20:25, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

== Please retract your accusation against Dicklyon ==

PMAnderson, at ], in , you have accused ] of acting in bad faith and of lying. I asked you (at the same place) to retract that accusation, but you refused in belligerent terms. I hope that you will reconsider the matter during the next 24 hours, and retract there and apologise at his talkpage. I am requesting that you do so. <span style="color:blue;"><big>N</big><small>oetica</small></span><sup><small>]</small></sup> 03:32, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

'''Addendum:''' To reword grudgingly is not to retract. Please undertake a full reversal of your provocative personal attack against this editor who is attempting good-faith dialogue, and a genuinely conciliatory overture at his talkpage. <span style="color:blue;"><big>N</big><small>oetica</small></span><sup><small>]</small></sup> 06:35, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 18 April 2011 ==

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== Re: Mexican-American War ==

It's not ], so I will not revert myself. ''']'''] 02:10, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

== Count of Tyrone ==

Please do not destroy ]. It may lack inline citations, but references are provided. This looks a lot like a POV crusade, and your appeals in ], ], and ] leave me suspicious your sources are more limited than the article's. The main contributor, ], is familiar with the O'Neill family council, and I trust him. Sure it needs a lot of work but I can't just let you throw it all out like that. You're going to need to provide me with a complete citation for '']'' and much more. ] (]) 02:18, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 25 April 2011 ==

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== Replied (I'd Like To Maybe Revive This Discussion) ==


Should we do a rfc?] (]) 11:42, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

== Dives, not ==

Do you think anyone would object if I removed the ''Dives'' from ]? I've not investigated this, but it's my impression that this is incorrect, based on a notion that the name would've been automatically handed down from his grandfather, Marcus Crassus the so-called triumvir who most likely didn't go by ''Dives'' himself. There's been a note on the talk page pointing this out for three years. ] (]) 02:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
:Thanks. I'm unbecomingly timid about anything I do on WP these days. ] (]) 12:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
::Ah, yes, discussion requires ], which I imagine might be better spent generating content. is classic, and communicates more efficiently. I have a couple of articles a few editors have suggested nominating for GA status, but I don't have the emotional stamina to face, and prefer to have them hover under the radar of, the Inquisition. ] (]) 15:48, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

== "ce" ==

The shorthand "ce" is generally used for uncontroversial copy edits; your use of it to hide a controversial change of style that you know is hotly contested seems sneaky and dishonest. ] (]) 19:12, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

:Anderson, do you recall what happened at the last AN3 report? Start a RfC or an arbitration or whatever you want. --] (]) 17:40, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

::RfC is a good idea. Arbitration is for user misbehavior problems; might be a good idea, too. What's an AN3? ] (]) 17:43, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

== ''The Bugle'': Issue LXI, March 2011 ==

{| style="width: 100%;"
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* Project News: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Members: '']''
* Editorial: '']''
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|- |-
| align="left" | '''Volume 2, Issue 37''' || align ="center" | '''] ]''' || align="right" | ''']'''
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== edit warring ==
{| width="90%" cellspacing="0" align="center"

| colspan=2 |
Please stop edit warring at ]. Calling following the MOS "vandalism" is especially ridiculous, and makes you look like a troll. I don't know if you're trying to provoke a fight, but regardless your behaviour is unacceptable. — ] (]) 20:41, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
----
:The claim that this follows the MOS is a falsehood employed by four disruptive editors to conceal their destructive campaign. Please stay off my talk page, unless you have something substantive to say. ] <small>]</small> 20:46, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
::Those who attempt to follow the MOS, which represents some best-practices in typography among other things, are acting in good faith for the good of the project. If you keep calling us liers and vandals, you are simply violating ] instead of addressing the real issues. ] (]) 01:51, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

== embattled? ==

Hiya PMA,

I remember having a couple of generally positive interactions with you in the past, but having just now happened upon some recent talk page comments I have to wonder: "what the hell is going on?" Are you feeling embattled for some reason, or something? I just... you're gonna get blocked soon, guy. Maybe we disagree on things, maybe we agree, whatever... just, don't get blocked for creating inter-personal issues.<br/>—&nbsp;] <span style="font-variant:small-caps">(]&thinsp;•&thinsp;])</span> 00:03, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 2 May 2011 ==

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<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''']''' · ] · ] · ] (]) 23:36, 2 May 2011 (UTC)</div>
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== Incident ==

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you. ] (]) 05:56, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

== hyphen/dash position question ==

Hey. Would you favor using hyphens consistently for all purposes in WP article content as well titles and URL, and never using any kind of dashes? Seems to me that would be the simple, clear, consistent and credible solution. Any deviation from that is bound to lead to complexity and inconsistency. What do you think? --] (]) 22:35, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
* This hyphen-only convention could also be easily enforced by a bot. Even if there is some truly special case where we really need to use a dash, like an article about dashes, the bot could have some built-in special cases to allow. There can't be very many of those. --] (]) 00:28, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

== MOS ==

I have your comment to remove the rather pointed comment directed at me. I am trying to keep it impersonal. please do likewise. Thank you for your cooperation. --] ] 03:29, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
*After I have to the statement of yours being considered racist, would you consider formally withdrawing that comment? --] ] 04:24, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
::{{trout}}
::Please in the future be more sensitive to those who feel that your comments were abusive or racist. Even if you didn't intend it so, you need to spend fair effort to understand what their concern was and address it.
::You have been repeatedly warned about civility issues in the past. Please spend more effort on this area going forwards.
::Thank you. ] (]) 18:20, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

==Bringing about change==
Next time you're accused of being dishonest or worse for trying to bring about change at the article level instead of first establishing consensus to change MOS or a guideline or whatever, feel free to refer to this: ]. --] (]) 17:27, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
*Do you have the right thread? Honesty isn't the issue here. --] ] 01:34, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
**Sorry - he was accused of dishonesty regarding issues that had to do with MOS, so, given the section heading, I thought it was fine, but I just created a new section. Feel free to delete this comment now that this is straightened out. Sorry about the confusion. --] (]) 04:20, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
***No problem; you said dishonesty or worse, and racism may well be worse than dishonesty. This case may be (like the underlying cause of dispute) mere lack of fluency. But when fraudulent accusations of racism are regarded as equally bad, we may yet approach Utopia; in the meantime, some people will play Chicken Little, ignoring that this actively harms those who are actually under a falling sky. ] <small>]</small> 04:34, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
*You may be interested to participate in a ] about your abovementioned actions at ]. --] ] 05:00, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

== Talk:MOS post ==

Looks like you forgot to sign? ] (]) 15:30, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

== Arb request ==

"Tony called the closing admin corrupt" -- could you rephrase that so that it clearly refers to the admin of the first closing? I was the admin for the second movereq, and didn't get any insults thrown my way.--] (]) 17:57, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

== RfA ==

Just wanted to make sure that you see: ].<br/>—&nbsp;] <span style="font-variant:small-caps">(]&thinsp;•&thinsp;])</span> 16:37, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

== logarithm ==

You'll probably have noticed, but since the nomination is at a kind of stand-still now: I have addressed your historical comments at ]. I'd appreciate your feedback on this. Thank you, ] (]) 17:29, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

==Birds of a Feather==
Look like you and I may be of like minds on the hyphen thing. Is this stuff unreal, or what? Surreal? Anyway, my area of expertise is cancer, and there are now 14 quadrillion (IMO) bogus horizontal lines of various types in perhaps 12 billion articles. WTH is going to happen with those? Another thing that blows my mind is the massive cumulative record of misconduct of one of those editors you mentioned, yet NOTHING has ever been done to this person. What do you think? Personally, these ''fait accompli'' situations - wherein '''one guy''' changes THOUSANDS of things over a few days, and then refuses to fix them, just ENRAGES me TO THE CORE! :-O

Best regards:
Cliff L. Knickerbocker, MS (]) 03:29, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

:PMA, he's talking about Kwami putting hyphens into cancers like ], and such. For some reasons, the medical types don't use the same English as some other fields do. I agree that you guys should flock together. ] (]) 03:55, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 9 May 2011 ==

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== Personalizing things too much? ==

Don't you think comments like border on violating ]? Is there some reason you think that making the argument about me gives you a leg up? ] (]) 04:21, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 16 May 2011 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue LXII, April 2011 ==

{| style="width: 100%;"
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* Members: '']''
* Editorial: '']''
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|- |-
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== ] == == Request for comment ==
This message is being sent to you because you have previously edited the ] page. There is currently a discussion that may result in a significant change to Misplaced Pages policy. Specifically, a consensus is being sought on if the policies of ] and ] continues to be working policies for naming biographical articles, or if such policies have been replaced by a new status quo. This discussion is on-going at ], and your comments would be appreciated. ] (]) 17:11, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


== edit warring on a naming guideline page again ==
I apologize for spamming your talk page, but since you had contributed in the past to the ] proposal, which is currently ready for a wider consultation, I thought you might want to give it another look now and, hopefully, suggest some final improvements. Thanks. --]<sup>]</sup> 22:57, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


Again? Really?
==''Signpost'' updated for September 18th.==
* ''(reasonable ] assumption that there is no objection - no problem)''
* ''(standard ] (yes, lack of consensus support is a very weak reason to revert, but it is an indication of objection, and sufficient cause to move on to discussion on the talk page to seek further explication)''
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Is it really that difficult to follow ]? --] (]) 20:40, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


::No, lack of consent is no reason to revert. ] That's policy. Now, if either of you cares to discuss substance, that would be welcome. If not, expect to explain yourself to ANI. ] <small>]</small> 20:47, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
]
:::]<p>Once you are reverted for a policy or guideline page change, ''for any reason'', you need to discuss, especially if you have a history of getting involved in contentious edit wars. --] (]) 21:06, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
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== Notification of ] report ==

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== ''The Signpost'': 23 May 2011 ==

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== Bad faith accusations of vandalism in subject lines ==

I noticed you tagged your subject lines with bad faith and inaccurate accusations of vandalism. What do you have to say about this?] (]) 21:07, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Note: I raised your subject lines at WP:ANI; I want them removed.] (]) 21:24, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

== By Jove ==

Could you spare a moment to look at ]? I'm taking a wiki-break and only stopped by today to check in on some things, so I'm short on time and have never undone a move before. ] (]) 21:49, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

:That was quick! and most welcome (I can't even do a move, let alone undo one). Hoping you're well. ] (]) 22:04, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

::That was so thoughtful of you. I've probably been told before, and promptly forgotten; I'll put the message where it can't be archived. ] (]) 22:23, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

== Talk:Skåne Regional Council ==

I responded to your oppose at the talk page. --] (]) 21:09, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

== Help with some Misplaced Pages-related research? ==

Hi Pmanderson. My name is Sanjay, and I'm a 1st-year PhD student working on a project aimed at improving the quality of scientific articles on Misplaced Pages by providing easier access to relevant published refereed articles. I found you on the list of Wikipedians with access to Web of Science and JSTOR, so I figured you must frequently utilize such articles in your work on Misplaced Pages. If you are interested in lending your expertise and advice to this research effort, I have posted a set of questions on my talk page - I would greatly appreciate your taking the time to answer any or all of them. The answers will help inform the design of a tool which I believe will benefit the Misplaced Pages community. Thanks! ] (]) 18:31, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 30 May 2011 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue LXIII, May 2011 ==

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To begin or stop receiving this newsletter, please list yourself in the appropriate section ]. To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the ]. ] (]) 23:53, 4 June 2011 (UTC)</span>


== ''The Signpost'': 6 June 2011 ==
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<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''']''' · ] · ] · ] (]) 01:08, 7 June 2011 (UTC)</div>
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==Question==
May I ask why you find it acceptable to voice an opinion about the guideline and not only find it OK to immediately act on it without even giving other the courtesy of responding first, but insist on it as if it were a result of a consensus of some sort? You are well aware that an RfC is currently underway, and most of that RfC's material does not even concern the items you perceive as problematic. I must ask you to please follow the proper discussion procedures. Thank you.—]&nbsp;•&nbsp;(]); June&nbsp;10, 2011; 16:14 (UTC)
:I've responded there as well. All in all, you don't have the prerogative to decide what violates our core policy and what doesn't; that the community's job. I've seen you usurp the right to make an ultimate decision on more than one occasion, and that really becomes worrisome. Best,—]&nbsp;•&nbsp;(]); June&nbsp;10, 2011; 16:30 (UTC)
:WP:RUS was up for discussion for over a month in 2007 and had universal support before being promoted to a guideline. You can't get any more "official" than that. I have not added a single word that altered the spirit of the guideline ever since, hence there can't possibly be any parts which "only I support". What I am doing is reverting to the version that has been supported as a result of a formal proposal so those who want to participate in the RfC would have the current version to work with. You, for some reason I don't understand, seem to think that I added chunks between 2007 and now. This is not the case, and is just outrageous. Are you going to mark all guidelines which you don't like as "essays" now? If you are having a hard day, please take a break to calm down, but if this your genuine attitude, then I think a request for comment for your conduct is in order.—]&nbsp;•&nbsp;(]); June&nbsp;10, 2011; 16:56 (UTC)
::It is true that no local consensus can make guidance against policy acceptable. It is, however, not ''your'' place to decide whether it is the case. There are only two ways in which the incompatibility of a lower level guideline with a higher-level policy can be determined&mdash;the community discussion and the ArbComm decision. As a member of the Misplaced Pages community, you have the same right as anyone else to identify the problems and fix them in the articles, being mindful to the fact that if your identification is challenged, you will need to ] nevertheless. You also have the same rights as anyone else to pinpoint the incompatibilities between the individual policies and guidelines. What you do ''not'' have a right to do with the guidelines is to unilaterally act on your own judgement&mdash;especially not when the discussion between ''other'' members of the community is ongoing. That is neither right nor civil. With that in mind, please revert your changes to the pages in question and kindly let others discuss the issue in a calm environment.—]&nbsp;•&nbsp;(]); June&nbsp;13, 2011; 12:57 (UTC)
:::On the contrary, it is ''everybody's'' business. Insisting that ''only'' ArbCom or a "community decision", which you will do your best to stalemate, can remove something blatantly contrary to policy, is a recipe for idefinite delay. ] <small>]</small> 22:48, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

== Chill.. ==

I'm not sure why you're in such a big rush to deal with this WP:RUS thing.. I think Ezhiki is acting in good faith here. I also think we should let the discussion run its course, rather than fanning flames by making changes before the discussion is over. ] (]) 16:58, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

:Maybe you should have a look at the recent discussion Ezkihi and I have been having ].. just when I thought we were getting somewhere.. ] (]) 22:39, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
::Sigh. He knows about Russian and English; he knows very little about Greek and English; he doesn't even know the name of Wade-Giles, the major competing system for Chinese. ] <small>]</small> 22:44, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

== Villa Pump (proposals) ==

Hi, there has been a modification to a proposal which you have previously discussed. The discussion can be found ]. ] (]) 23:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

== Roman Iron Age ==

I've posted a question at the Classical Greece and Rome project page that could benefit from your expertise. ] (]) 01:31, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 13 June 2011 ==

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</div><!--Volume 7, Issue 24-->
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''']''' · ] · ] · ] (]) 01:18, 14 June 2011 (UTC)</div>
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== Julian - Caesar ==

http://forumancientcoins.com/Articles/Julian_II.htm

S. Tougher, "The Propaganda of Power: The Role of Panegyric in Late Antiquity", page 122

Sources which relate the position to heir-apparent. I do think this issue needs clarifying one way or the other (and the conclusion should be included in the article) as, even as just our debate highlights, it is an important distinction which has significant bearing upon an understanding of Julian's rise to power. ] (]) 01:19, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

:Plus, I think it is quite clear that whether the title Caesar was a reference to his status as co-emperor or heir-apparent, that Constantius did intend for him to inherit after the 'death' of Constantius Gallus. ] (]) 01:24, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
::Alright I'm willing to accept that the term would be overly controversial but some clarification for the term Caesar should be given as the link is not at all helpful, I'm willing to leave the wording to you. ] (]) 01:31, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

==ANI notice concerning you==
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is ]. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you.—]&nbsp;•&nbsp;(]); June&nbsp;15, 2011; 19:12 (UTC)

== Edit war ==

You might not realize it but of yours was jumping squarely in the middle of an active edit war, choosing a side. This makes you a partisan to the edit war. I strongly recommend you revert your edit and extract yourself from this edit war. ] <small>(])</small> 00:30, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

== Listen to Myrrha please ==

Please listen and support/oppose avec comments!

] (]) 02:13, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 20 June 2011 ==

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<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''']''' · ] · ] · ] (]) 15:49, 21 June 2011 (UTC)</div>
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== Please consider refactoring your comments ==

Several of your recent comments at ] struck me as uncivil and bad faithed. I have always respected you in the past, but your claims that Slavic editors are biased, as "proven by ArbCom", are very disturbing. I am asking you in a friendly manner to rewrite them or strike them out. Please "discuss edits, not editors". Thank you,--<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]&#124;]</sub> 02:32, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
:The way I read your arguments is that you imply that those (in particlar, Slavic) editors who disagree with you on that page are biased, and you further ] by bringing up an unrelated ArbCom case. This is very inconstructive, and very much in the spirit prohibited by ]. Please reconsider your arguments, I'd hate to see the matters between us, so civil and respectful for many years, escalate further. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]&#124;]</sub> 03:29, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

== ] ==

Hello Pmanderson. Thank you for your interest in the Greek love article. I noticed you reverted my edits with the edit summary, "Restore version by Cynw`olfe. If this continues, dispute resolution may be necessary." I do not see a reason for dispute resolution unless it was your intention to threaten me or create an atmosphere of intimidation. If your intention is an edit war you should know I am not engaging in it now nor will I be doing so in the future. I urge you to seek a second opinion, but I do have the right to edit on a page I have been contributing to for years. While I do not share the belief that editors need to summarize everything on the talk page before they edit, I have been doing so for a reason...it's called cooperation. Someone suggested it several times and I am cooperating. No editor has the right to demand another editor stop editing or contributing to any article. It goes against the very nature and spirit of Misplaced Pages. If you would like to actually discuss what displeases you so much in a civil manner I would welcome the addition to consensus.--] (]) 03:12, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 27 June 2011 ==

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<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''']''' · ] · ] · ] (]) 01:27, 28 June 2011 (UTC)</div>
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== June 2011 ==

{{stop}}

Dear PManderson, the Manual of Style was unprotected in good faith earlier today by arbitrator ], in which his stated hope was that edit-warring "will not recur". The page history shows that you leapt in to make five edits in the hours after this—some of them contentious and without warning or discussion on the talk page—with at least one uncivil edit-summary accusing another editor of "a deliberate falsehood".<p>Please be aware that you are approaching the circumstances in which a topic-ban is required for the protection of the project, given that the page has been locked on three occasions since January because of circumstances in which you have acted provocatively. ] ] 09:41, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

== You might want to tone it down ==

PMA, you probably know that I agree with you that the MoS should be less about personal opinion than it currently is, but you're starting to sound like ''you're'' the crazy one. The level of fervor that I pick up from your contributions is what I'd expect from Headbomb when he gets going, not from someone reasonable.

You might be right, but people like Tony haven't really done anything, and Noetica hasn't done anything except be a big fat dramamonger. That's really not cause for banning anyone.

It's unlikely enough that the MoS majority is going to take someone seriously if that person is telling them that their own pet peeves don't count as reliable sources. It's even less likely if that person also comes off as raving. ] (]) 14:01, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

* Seriously. I agree with Darkfrog24 here, PMA. The 37,000-foot view I’m seeing here is of others collegially trying to work in a collaborative writing environment in the library and you’re walking around with a boom-box objecting to something at every turn. Now you might not like that message, but try not jumping down my throat with a bunch of blue-linked righteous indignation about “AGF” and “civility” and “inclusivity”. Just take to heart that it appears that your protracted persistence seems to have numbed the senses of others to such an extent that they just accept your disruption as the price of participating on Misplaced Pages, as if the rule-set as of late is…

:# Is it right?
:# Is it sound technical writing practices?
:# Is it compliant with Misplaced Pages’s five pillars?
:# Is there a general consensus?
:# Will PMA throw a hissy fit and start leaving edit summaries in Latin? (cogito maximus impressum rif-raferus)

: It would behove you to cool your jets some for a while; they’re making that *tink* - *tink* - *tink* sound of overheated metal right now. ] (]) 16:08, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 4 July 2011 ==

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<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''']''' · ] · ] · ] (]) 11:21, 5 July 2011 (UTC)</div>
<!-- EdwardsBot 0155 -->

== NCRUS - DAB populates places ==

You commented on ]. I made a minimum proposal (resulting in ", Russia" as default when disambiguation is needed, instead of parenthetical disambiguation) at ]. It would simply mean to remove the "Dikson (urban-type settlement)"-rule and would result in ] by applying the general Misplaced Pages rules. Hope we can move forward step by step, bringing WikiProject Russia in line with general WP rules. ] (]) 12:48, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

== Follow the sources ==

Greetings! I just saw this section of the MOS, and I was surprised/pleased to see that it resembled a lot of points I've been making on the MOS:TM talk page for a while. Are we maybe at a point where there's some consensus there and a genuine guideline we can point people who espouse the "but the company formats it this way" argument? ] (]) 23:05, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 11 July 2011 ==

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==Please comment on ]==
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue LXIV, June 2011 ==

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To receive this newsletter on your talk page, ] or sign up ]. If you are a member who does not want delivery, please go to ]. ] (]) 23:46, 16 July 2011 (UTC)</span>


== ] ==
==Userfication request==
Hi,


Hey, I was wondering if I could get you to look through my article on the Mallians. I've done a lot of work on it. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 09:41, 18 July 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
Request duly fulfilled. :) If you choose to edit the thing, please keep in might the objection that the analogy is not exactly on point, as raised in the debate.


== Surnames of Lord Anne ==
Incidentally, I ''really did'' have a girlfriend who lived in Canada. Seriously! :) It's amazing the sort of <s>trash<s> people that one can meet online. ;) Obviously, she's now an ex... but not all of us ugly, pathetic losers who say this are lying. After all, Canada has its share of ugly, pathetic losers for us to date! Best wishes, ] the lovelorn 01:11, 21 September 2006 (UTC)


Nice of you to take an interest here. Don't think great(to the power of a few)-grandpa ] would be too fussed which surname he held, especially considering his Christian name! Douglas/Hamilton/Douglas-Hamilton? Who cares? A younger son, Lord Anne, whose progeny inherited the senior titles of both houses, and chose to call themselves Douglas-Hamilton, much as the until 1902, branch did. Being the heir male of the great House of Douglas is not something to be swept under the carpet just for the 'unfortunate' fact that the same man happens to be the head of the House of Hamilton...So what? ] (]) 21:37, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
== Hi Sept ==


:Well that's awfully big of you! Opinion? Importance? Genealogical treatise? Um, this is supposed to be an encyclopaedia is it not? How important are you, with your opinion? Ever heard of ancestral memory, visiting the sites, hard copy in situ? No, didn't think so....] (]) 22:07, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for gradually your comment, and sorry for sounding a little harsh in my previous comments. I really don't see why we have to disagree on this. Please read my comment and respond.] 12:17, 21 September 2006 (UTC)


== ''The Signpost'': 18 July 2011 ==
Ok. I am making an attempt to reasonably understand what your objection for the map is. I sincerely have not understood why you keep calling it 'tendentious' (because that has to be the point, as 'garish' is subjective and even if you believe that, we won't go anywhere discussing it). Care to explain please? I know this tires you but at the same time I know that you strive for making the article better. I am willing to do anything possible to make it NPOV, but I really see not even a hint to nationalistic/irredentist stuff. (keep it in your talk for continuity please). ] 13:13, 24 September 2006 (UTC)


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:I find it tendentious because it harps on the claims of a handful of irredentists. In the template, this is accompanied by a repetition, and so emphasis, of material already in the text of both articles. On the Main Page, it would bring undue emphasis to a deservedly obscure definition of Macedonia. (Your very nice fourfold map, with the caption "if it weren't confusing..." would be much better there.) ] 22:21, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
{{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2011-07-18}}
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<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''']''' · ] · ] · ] (]) 01:10, 19 July 2011 (UTC)</div>
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== no Irish genealogy ==
::I just copied your comment here for continuity. Hope you don't mind. If you do, continue the talk in mine, by doing the same.


Sorry to take so long. Not quite two days ago something unexpected happened and I have found myself in a situation I have no dignified way out of, so I reacted by buying whiskey to go along with my beer. Before I get drunk again shortly, after which I am going to force myself to stay up and go the library instead of passing out, I will tell you a little about what I meant.
::Not that I don't like your proposal with the fourfold, but it'll be too small for 1st page. Now let's get back to the map:


I am not locked in a battle of wits with genealogists. Rather, you could call them computer and Internet specialists, who while appearing in part genuinely good-natured have done several things to make me unhappy, including wiretapping and hacking my computer. It will sound crazy, if you are interested. I should probably tell one hundred people I can trust, mainly of the academic type, but have not told a soul yet. Who knows what will happen in the future, but I need confidence when dealing with them... assuming I can survive my other situation. I am in love with one of them too, and a lot is very delicate. Can you keep a secret? ] (]) 12:38, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
::Where does it repeat those claims? The terms on the template are all scholarly, it just happens that they are reproduced by nationalists. The two issues are separated, or is there a link I haven't observed? ] 22:36, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
:Thank you! It will take me some time to think of how I need to say it so that I won't sound insane! I'll get back to you. Cheers! ] (]) 19:06, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
::PS and sorry for possible edit conflict: I know it is subjective, but I like it mostly because of how it looks, not because of any nationalistic implication.] 22:39, 24 September 2006 (UTC)


== ''The Signpost'': 25 July 2011 ==
:I've tried to add the maps to the sample page; but I've had trouble shrinking them to fit. If you can do that, we can interest the reader more, by showing that Macedonia has moved all over the place. (The details may be less visible, but the point will carry. ] 22:43, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
::No edit conflict; and I'm sorry to hear that: My chief objection is that I don't like how it looks; although I really do find the caption unnecessary. Differences in national taste, I suppose. ] 22:49, 24 September 2006 (UTC)


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PLEASE, let's keep the talk in one place! How it looks: As I said, it's subjective. However, I'll give it a shot tomorrow. For now, let's suppose you like it too. Caption: Why is it unnecessary? What would you suggest in its place? ] 22:54, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
{{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2011-07-25}}
:::Actually, making the caption smaller, as I see you've done since the TfD, is a big help. It gives much less impression of shouting over whether Aegean Macedonia is actually Greek Macedonia, and so on. But Aegean Macedonia, Pirin Macedonia, and so forth, are defined and linked and footnoted ''right next to the map''. Do they really need to have this done all over again? How about " Aegean Macedonia, Pirin M., ...", which should fit in one or two lines? after all, all it is is a color key. (I would have no objection to scare quotes or "Region called" if you think this gives too much legitimacy to the names.) ] 23:19, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
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:No, don't misunderstand me, I am not trying to illustrate that Aegean Mk is Greek Mk and so forth because it adds some kind of validity/legitimacy to the Greek dominion over that area (and so forth). I'm just adding it because it happens that scholars call that part likewise in both occasions. I wouldn't object removing the one or the other alternative term if that was your point. For the -text proposal, I guess it would occasionally wrap inappropriately, unless we shrunk it all to 'Greek' text (ha!). As for the scare quotes, they are unnecessary. Nobody can be offended by scholarly terms (it says so below for the Greeks "Athens doesn't take issue"). If you believe we should remove one or the other name (pls tell me which) I think I know how to make the caption shorter: I'll create two columns; one for the Major, and one for the Minor. (PS. I'm also working on combining the history maps to see how they look this size). ] 23:36, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">''']''' · ] · ] · ] (]) 23:26, 25 July 2011 (UTC)</div>
:If I had to pick, I'd keep Aegean Macedonia and so forth; because that's what we're defining. ] 01:32, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
<!-- EdwardsBot 0158 -->


==Please comment on ]==
See ] for the fourfold.] 00:19, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
{{Quote box|title = Responding to RFCs|width = 35%|quote=<p>Remember that RFCs are part of ] and at times may take place in a heated environment. Please take a look at the relevant RFC page before responding and be sure that you are willing and able to enter that environment and contribute to making the discussion a calm and productive one focussed on the content issue at hand. See also ].</p>}}
:Looks good, unless you want it a bit larger; I take it that adding
Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the ] on ''']'''. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! However, please note that your input will carry no greater weight than anyone else's: remember that an RFC aims to reach a reasoned ] position, and is ]. In support of that, your contribution should focus on thoughtful evaluation of the issues and available evidence, and provide further relevant evidence if possible.
::"If it were not confusing, it would not have been Macedonia"-J. McCarthy
:would be illegible? (It doesn't need sourcing, just the quotes.) ] 01:32, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
:::Actually, I guess I didn't like it, but that (again) is subjective. I really find the other option more intriguing for the readers ("Moved around? So what! - Partitioned among 3 nations? Hmmm, let's give it a look!"), but that is just my opinion, of course. You must admit that the colors in the geo version create more eye-attraction (...or I can hear you saying "Cat vomet would attract eyes too.") I'll give it a shot with Aegean and so forth, and I'll work on the map a little bit. I'll also try to make the fourfold option more attractive. Perhaps we could have a poll on these two options later in the article talk? ] 10:40, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
:I uploaded a new version for the history pic in my talk (hit ctrl-F5). : (a) Zoomed-in maps, (b) Added quote, per Sept. instructions. Guys, I try to cooperate as much as I can, but I really find this picture dull, and confusing in this size (which btw is already a little larger than usual tfa's). Sorry, I still prefer the geo version, and I am willing to discuss further to improve it, if that is possible...] 12:59, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
::I also tweaked the original ] to remove more blank space from the caption; hope it's more appealing to you now. Moreover, I created another ] which excludes the second names, and splits the caption in 2 columns, but I find we should not omit that information. Finally, I've been experimenting with the various degrees of transparency and other colors in the map, and despite my efforts, I can now positively confirm that this is the best color-combination we can have. Those colors are fashionable too; believe me, I know well (Fran knows why...) :-)] 15:33, 25 September 2006 (UTC)


''You have received this notice because your name is on ]. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from that page.'' <!-- Template:FRS message --> ] (]) 05:37, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


== Aircraft ==
Have you tweaked the colors in the "geography" map? Either I'm looking at it with different eyes, or the colors are coming across less strongly. One point of detail: Is Athos really excluded from "Aegean Macedonia"? And if so, on what grounds? ] 17:18, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
:Or it;s that I happen to using a different computer in the same system. If this is it, be warned that the colors are unstable. ] 17:19, 25 September 2006 (UTC)


I'm trying to understand your position, and I'd rather not clutter up the talk page with our colloquy. Isn't it always the case that an article about a category of something will be somewhat redundant with articles on types of things within the category? In this instance, wouldn't ], ], and ] also be redundant with ]? If so, shouldn't we delete those articles? Would you support deleting ] because it's redundant with ]? How about deleting ] because it's redundant with ]? I'd appreciate some further clarification of your reasoning. Thanks. ] (]) 16:17, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
::I don't know about Athos, but being an autonomous region, I thought it was excluded from Gr Mk. Now from Aegean Mk, things are a little complicated. Truth is I don't know, and I suspect that reference will not be easy. I propose I remove the border and color it as well, so that nobody notices.
:I feel that we're arguing from different assumptions. Let me see if we can find out where we diverge. To start: do you agree that ]=]+]+]+]+]? ] (]) 18:31, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
::Okay, I think I see what you're saying - when you divide "fixed-wing aircraft" into "airplanes" and "gliders" (omitting the others for brevity), you'll just have to divide "airplanes" again into "biplanes", "jets", etc., so why not just go straight from "fixed-wing aircraft" to "gliders", "biplanes", "jets", etc., and sidestep lopsidedness of categories, correct?
::The problem I see with that is that "aeroplane", by itself, has encyclopedic content, separate from "fixed-wing aircraft", and separate from "gliders", and from "biplanes". To analogize, ] has meaning separate from ] on the one hand, and ] and ] on the other. Here's what I mean: "aeroplane" and "glider" are both subsets of "fixed-wing aircraft", just like "Romance languages" and "Albanian" are both subsets of "Indo-European languages". "Aeroplane" and "Romance languages" can be further divided into "biplanes". etc., and "Spanish", etc., while "glider" and "Albanian" cannot. But just because it seems lopsided when you put "aeroplane" next to "glider" - the same way it seems lopsided when you put "Romance languages" next to "Albanian" - doesn't mean that they don't carry meaning of their own. Does that make sense? ] (]) 23:44, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


== Please stop ==
::Colors: No, I didn't upload any tweaked image. They were like that before. I, myself, use 3 pc's and haven't seen any difference. Maybe you like them because fashion is catching up with your rigid mathematic mind. :-) Download NASA's ] (that's where I got the map from). It's like a free ], if you know. You'll be able to spin around the globe with your mouse and zoom it with the wheel to see the roof of your house! The moon too! It's really worth the installation...] 21:38, 25 September 2006 (UTC)


You're making the discussion at ] very difficult with your constant changes and nonsense (everytime I try to post something, I have to begin anew because you've changed something around). I asked you kindly to place your comments outside the poll, to keep the poll organized and free of excessive writing, but apparently this is too much to ask. I respectfully commented against your suggestion of "Cosi Fan Tutti"; it does not apply in the issue. You're behaving like a child and your personal bias shows repeatedly. You're attempting to have an edit war as opposed to focusing on the issue at hand. All of your arguments have been answered to and made invalid, face it. Thank you. ] (]) 19:08, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
==''Signpost'' updated for September 25th.==
:Hello again. Listen, my comments to you were not meant as personal attacks. I sensed some tension and was responding to it by making reference to things you've said. If you did not mean those things spitefully, then I believe you and I will not try to use them against you. This issue is very important to me and I'd like Misplaced Pages to have solid guidelines on the matter. I'll remove my comments not related to the main discussion, and I hope you do the same. By moving your comments I was not trying to tyrannize, I just wanted the discussion to run smoothly. ] (]) 20:49, 29 July 2011 (UTC)


== En dash spacing ==
]

{| width="90%" cellspacing="0" align="center"
PMA, at ] we are trying to converge on a better consensus for the part of the en dash guidelines that talk about when they should be spaced or unspaced, which is an area that you said had not a good consensus. I think we can get to something that everyone can live with, but I still haven't heard what your position would be on this minor issue. If you care, please let us know at that subpage. ] (]) 16:47, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
:That attempt has come to an impasse. I still wonder what your position would be on it, but no matter. ] (]) 15:50, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

The invitation for your opinion should not have been taken as an invitation to just go ahead and change the MOS section to your liking. Discuss first, find consensus, then we can change it. Changes in various directions have been found to find less support than what we have now, so let's stick unless we can do better. ] (]) 22:32, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

* PMA, please also see my post ]. I didn’t chose how to name that discussion thread—Dick did—but I might have come up with something real close. I caution you to read what I wrote (00:55, 2 August 2011 post) there before you contemplate acting out on this issue again. ] (]) 01:07, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
**By the way, this proposal of Greg L's is almost exactly what I support.

<div style="clear: both"></div>]'''You have been {{#if:||temporarily}} ] from editing Misplaced Pages {{#if:|for a period of }} as a result of your {{#if:|disruptive edits to ]|disruptive edits}}.''' You are free to make constructive edits after the block has expired, but please note that ] (including page blanking or addition of ]), ], deliberate misinformation, privacy violations, ]; and repeated, blatant violations of our policies concerning ] and ] will not be tolerated.<!-- Template:Test5 --><!--Template:uw-blocked-->

Consensus has been so hard to nut out - and are extremely unhelpful, as are your comments at ]. If you can't edit collaboratively then you need a break. ] (] '''·''' ]) 08:26, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
{{unblock reviewed | 1=There was a discussion, to which I was invited immediately above, which reached no consensus; an impasse (as ) is no consensus. I made one effort which did not rule out the normal usage, as many at the discussion supported; I made a second effort to say - I don't see how any admin can look at ] and see consensus on the present text; it's difficult to find anyone who agrees with it - both option '''b''' and option '''d''' are changes, in the same direction. Both edits were reverted by the same editor, using Twinkle (; ) At that point, I left the page, discussing the matter at length on talk when challenged, and . I do not intend to edit the page again; I believe I said so. Casliber is an involved admin, defending a text which he claims to be consensus, although it is in part barely a majority (as , by the drafter, admits. If I am unblocked, I will not touch MOS for at least a week; I did not revert the revert-warrior because I had decided not to touch lt.] <small>]</small> 21:19, 2 August 2011 (UTC) | decline=Consider these two points:

:*The vast majority of users have never been blocked, or only been blocked once or twice, early in their Misplaced Pages careers.
:*Most unblock requests are replied to within a few hours at the most.

Now consider why you are the exception to both. And that is why you won't be getting unblocked early. ] (]) 17:47, 5 August 2011 (UTC)}}
::I have duly considered. One could not possibly suppose that I have irritated the Cabal, for there is none; neither can one suppose that this is the old proverb of "give a dog a bad name and shoot it." ] <small>]</small> 00:48, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
:Just to make this clear, this is not an arbcom/AE block, is it? ] (]) 21:49, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
::Not at all. Casliber chose to mediate the controversy at ], but he is acting as an admin. ] <small>]</small> 23:08, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
{{od}}
I very much hope that no admin undoes Casliber’s block. PMA has a long history of disruptive editing. Casliber laid out clear and valid reasoning to show that PMA showed no interest in civilly discussing things; quite the opposite, as Casliber demonstrated in his block reasoning. PMA’s got to learn that he must change his ways; merely pledging to stay away from the area where he went way beyond the line of disruption isn’t going to provide him with a sufficient attitude transplant. One of his last posts ({{xt|And rhe other liar is heard from. My "self-declared" goal is the improvement of MOIS; if I wanted to abolish it, I would do what most Wikiepedians do and ignore it. But since Diclyon;s text is unsupported by consensus, style guides,,or usage, there will be az few who need mo other reason to approve of it}}) betrayed not only that he was fully prepared to type what he thought (calling a respected editor a “liar”) but his string of typos betrayed that he staying up too late or getting himself too wrapped up in the wikidrama. For a variety of reasons, Casliber’s block needs to be respected. ] (]) 23:35, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
:This does show I was typing hastily - but all that means is that it was mealtime. Casliber is an involved admin; Greg L is an involved editor; both would prefer to pretend that opposition does not exist.

:Nevertheless, ] shows definite hope; we will see whether not "pretending that it is wise to try to change the writing habits of experienced, knowledgeable contributors who actually own and abide by respected manuals of style" has any traction.

:I expect it to be ignored for a week, since MOS has consistently pretended to change everybody's writing habits - which is why it could use improvement; so as not to interfere with the experiment, I will not endorse it elsewhere until the week is over. ] <small>]</small> 23:59, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

::No, PMA. I do not pretend that opposition does not exist. And, yes, I am involved. But that doesn’t blind me to what is going on in venues you frequent. This is entirely about how one properly interacts with others in a ], where disagreements ''always'' arise. You can’t continue to have influence on matters wildly beyond nose-count by relying upon tactics that worked in the past. If you can’t *feel* and intuit conduct-expected for a collegial environment, then you should take advantage of your wikibreak to study others’ posts and try to mimic the raw mechanics of proper interaction with others. ] (]) 00:10, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Indeed, he tries to use against me the fact that I acknowledge the opposition, and against you the claim that you don't. I have most recently put a summary of the few who have opposed the usage that he is picking on, with a link to where someone else can count the voters, too, and asked to be corrected if I missed anyone. It's not many, and the other many opposer, JeffConrad, agreed with restoring Noetica's version, even though he doesn't like it. PMA prefers to disrupt instead. After all the trouble he has provoked all year, a week off is nothing. ] (]) 00:22, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

::I am not an involved admin, my role in the process was administrative after the arbitration committee passed a motion directing the community to establish guidelines over a period of two months. My role was secondary to that to see that it reached a conclusion. I have not expressed an opinion about what I think the consensus should be. The block was for attempting to directly undermine and weaken the conclusion reached. The length of the block was because of the violation of the explicit warning, and delicacy of the situation and the time donated by many editors to date. ] (] '''·''' ]) 00:18, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
::I am pe4rfectly willing to take a week off from MOS; what I ask is to be permitted to edit elsewhere. Casliber's claims amount to taking a (feather-slim) majority as consensus; but that is best discussed in another place. ] <small>]</small> 00:44, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Here you go again, twisting language. You need to stop interpreting language to suit your world view. This is part of teh problem, especially when you act disruptively based on your interpretations. ] (] '''·''' ]) 04:25, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
::::Well, that should demonstrate Casliber's emotional involvement; those who see emotion in typoes will observe his. ] <small>]</small> 00:23, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

PMA, if I may... I'm not involved in this particular fiasco (dashes) but I'm curious about something. As you know, I get into conflicts quite often too. I know I don't try to do it on purpose, and I presume you don't either. But I do see one key difference, as exemplified by the difference between what happened here with you, and what happened with me on WP:AT yesterday. You can never know for sure, but I, like you, usually don't bother with starting a talk page discussion if it's a minor change of clarity. So, in my case, I made some minor clarifying edits, and was reverted with the typically obnoxious "discuss first" remark (or something to that effect). But here's the difference, I abided by BRD... I didn't revert the revert, or make another similar change, even though no reason for the revert was given, because BRD recommends, but does not require, the reverter to provide a reason, especially on policy/guideline pages. I started a discussion. But in your case you didn't abide with BRD... you went with BRR (okay, not exactly a 2nd revert but close) and that of course lead to this. So... why not BRD? --] (]) 00:49, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
::If Born2cycle can't see the difference between two entirely different edits on the same subject, I don't suppose anybody else can be expected to.

::When dealing with a revert-warrior, it has usually been a sound practice to make several different edits on the same subject; sometimes one of them will satisfy his objection, often surprisingly; if not, the record of exact reversions will be helpful later.

::So I made two edits:
::*One of them was a substantive proposal, which followed several of the suggestions in the conversation described above as an impasse.
::*The other was a simple statement that the conversation had not reached consensus, which seemed a reasonable, even non-controversial, assertion, when even the revert-warrior had described it as an impasse.
::When, to my surprise, this second edit was reverted, I did take it to talk. ] <small>]</small> 01:00, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

:::We're talking about these two edits, right?
:::The first edit was reverted with the comment, ''"Please respect the consensus process like the rest of us have been trying to do; discuss first. " ''
:::I see the difference between the two edits, but my question is why there was ''any'' second edit to that same section at all, instead of going directly to discussion per BRD? Ignoring BRD like that, especially after that remark, is what gets everyone's ire going, and results in blocks for you. Or so it seems to me.
:::Your second edit followed that revert. Changing "...except for times and dates (or similar cases) when ..." to "...there is no consensus on times and dates, such as ..." seems like a relatively significant change to me. But again, significant or not, it was an edit of the same section about which you were just asked to "discuss first". --] (]) 01:43, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
{{od}}
PMA: In response to this suggestion: {{xt|Now consider why you are the exception to both}}, you responded {{xt|I have duly considered. One could not possibly suppose that I have irritated the Cabal}}. Well… you finally hit the nail right on the head. Except that what you dismiss as a “cabal” is also known as “the group of editors comprising the consensus view”. So you might have instead written {{xt|One could not possibly suppose that I have irritated the the group of editors comprising the consensus view.}} All editors are supposed to find and abide by ]; that principal is one of ]. After your block expires, it seems there are two paths you will elect to head down:
# Continue to falsely think that the ''details of the dispute'' are all that matters (with statements from you like {{xt|Casliber's claims amount to taking a (feather-slim) majority as consensus}}) because you feel you have or…
# Finally figure out that despite the above sense, it <u>doesn’t matter</u> if you just go and piss off a bunch of other people who are collegially trying to engage in a hobby ''and actually enjoy'' that hobby as they go about building an encyclopedia.
If you can’t make the leap to #2 and abide by it, and instead continue to view your participation on the project as just a matter of “Get my way on MOS and MOSNUM and crush a silly and sorely mistaken cabal that opposes me,” then you are just setting yourself up for still more disappointment and frustration. ] (]) 03:14, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
::When I must choose whom to frustrate, I prefer to stand with those who are actually writing the encyclopedia, in English, to those whose hobby consists of making up rules by which to reinvent the English language. I have nothing against their fun, as long as it is kept away from those who are trying to do something useful.

::The "consensus view" quoted above is shown by !votes of 15-14, and the admins who accept such majorities as consensus. Yes, that consensus is against me (but not even all 15 of it). It wants me blocked because it has no case it can present without embarassment. ] <small>]</small> 15:58, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

I have a question: Pmanderson, do you think it is possible to ever disagree with you? Or is that an impossibility? --] (]) 07:27, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
:It is perfectly possible to disagree with me. If disagreement is supported by reliable sources, actual policy, or consensus as we define it (that is to say, ''general'' acceptance), I will yield, and always have; if supported by argument, it depends on the strength of the argument. Ask those who have provided such. Those who have presented nothing save their opinion find that I value it for every electron it is worth. ] <small>]</small> 15:58, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

::Well, let's discuss whether that is true some other time. What I tried to ask is not if it is possible for you to change your mind, but if it is possible to disagree with you. When you yield and change your mind based on arguments, you end up agreeing. The question hence is if it is possible to disagree with you; ie if it is possible to have another standpoint than the one you see as correct. --] (]) 17:45, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

:::Unfortunately I got no answer to that. The question has a reason, and that reason is that you dismiss everyone who disagrees with you. They are according to you either liars (ie, they know that they are wrong), vandals (have no interest in truth) or don't understand/write proper English or are in other ways illiterate (ie they do not understand what they are talking about). To me it seems that you don't even want to consider that other peoples opinions may be valid. This is also played out in that you generally are not engaging in constructive consensus-building. You revert-war and you explain on talk page why you don't have to listen to others. None of that is constructive.
:::In short: You would not be blocked now, or any other time, if you just listened to those that disagree with you and took their position seriously. The fact that you 99% of the time is correct may have something to do with this, as you then tend to assume you are right always. But that means that the few times where you are incorrect, the result is edit wars and personal attacks, and finally blocks. I think you can change that. --] (]) 05:40, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
:::I do not assume I am right always. I accept correction, as I have said, from the informed, the literate, and the intellectually honest. Unfortunately, Misplaced Pages is a attraction for those who are none of the above. ] <small>]</small> 18:43, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
::::No you don't, Pmanderson. You claim that people who do not agree with you are misinformed, illiterate and dishonest. Your position on the topic is what determines your opinion of these people, not the other way around. You should probably sit down and have a deep look inside yourself and on your behavior if you wish to avoid being blocked in the future. But then again I suspect you enjoy the conflict... :-) --] (]) 04:40, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

::PMA, how often can correctness be seen with such clarity on typical WP issues like the ndash issue that anyone's confidence in their view being correct can rise to the level of certitude? --] (]) 19:23, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
:::I think what everyone is really trying to say here is that no matter how correct you believe your position to be, it is important to be able to recognize when you have lost an argument. As you know, Misplaced Pages works by consensus. It is possible that consensus will favor a position that you regard as wrong. When that occurs it is much better to admit to yourself that despite the correctness of your position it is not supported by the wider community than to perpetuate the dispute through tendentious editing. ] (]) 17:42, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
::::Hallelujah! What Beeblebrox said. It’s no more complex than that. ] (]) 03:28, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::But this is what am I asling for: the power to walk away, and do something else. ] <small>]</small> 19:47, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::::You had that power all along, and you didn't exercise it. When your block expires you will still have it. Whether you use it or not will, as it always has been, be up to you. ] (]) 19:59, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
(PMAnderson, I thought you might like someone to drop in and say you're a great contributor. I don't know what any of this is about, but you're fucking fierce. You're gonna love what I have to tell you one of these days (whatever it is), when I figure out more of what the fucking is going on with my own situation.) ] (]) 00:33, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 01 August 2011 ==

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== ''The Signpost'': 08 August 2011 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue LXV, July 2011 ==

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== ''The Signpost'': 15 August 2011 ==
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== Issachar ben Mordecai ibn Susan ==

Re: , please explain what confusion there is by calling ] a Palestinian-Jewish mathematician. I do not see a difference between ] being called a Spanish rabbi and ] a ]? Thanks. ] (]) 15:29, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
:As you have not replied to my response, I take it you concede that you acknowledge assumptions on the matter were unfounded? ] (]) 17:10, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

== Can you please elaborate? ==

{{talkback|GTBacchus}}

== ANI against you, unfortunately ==

PMA. I was considering leaving a post on the talk page of admin GTBacchus suggesting you go take a good long wikibreak. But your incivility is totally out of hand and your disruption to the project and the toll you take on others as they try to contribute to the project outweighs, in my opinion, the value you bring to the project at this time. I don’t know what has gotten into you, but your behavior reminds me of “suicide by cop”, where you are just ''asking'' for it. You are subject to an ]. ] (]) 00:39, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

*FWIW, my advice, in response to what you (Pmanderson) said at my talk page, is . I hope you will consider it. ] (]) 13:07, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

== General sources ==

Pmanderson, hi.

I thought I'd move here from the thread on my talk page, because I want to jettison most of that and bring up a topic in a more focused way. I'm trying to understand your views regarding this issue because you obviously see something I don't, and I'd like to see it. Maybe you'll help me get better at what I do here. <p> Is it your position that sources such as newspapers and online dictionaries should carry more weight in titling decisions than sources such as print dictionaries, books on the subject, and standard references in the field in question? <p> If that's not what's a stake, then I guess I still don't understand your position, or exactly what your critique of my close is. Sorry if I'm being dense. I see that the timing and the rationale can both be questioned. In this post, I'm referring to the rationale, that we've been discussing. Timing is a separate issue, at least from my end, and I'm happy to address that separately. <p> So, yeah. What's up? General sources? -]<sup>(])</sup> 17:04, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
:My position is that the greatest weight should be given to the usage of other works of ''general'' reference. To choose an example away from cookery, it is quite true that a biography of ] is called ''Gustaf Adolf the Great'', a ] of the Swedish; ''den Store'', IIRC. But the normal English is shown not by this, but by the encyclopedias and general histories in English which normally call him Gustavus Adolphus. ] <small>]</small> 23:42, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
::I'd still like to reply to this, but I don't have time right now. This issue is an important one, and I don't want it to be lost in the noise of everything else that's going on. -]<sup>(])</sup> 07:06, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

== ArbCom ==
I'm going to be filing a case with ArbCom to follow up on the thread at AN/I, which I'm not sure is going to come to any meaningful conclusion. There seems to be enough call for issues to be addressed that it's at least worth putting a case together. We'll see whether ArbCom wants to hear it. I've informed the four editors you first named at my talk page that they're on my initial list of parties to the dispute. You are certainly also a party, and I'm informing you of it all now. I'm a party, too, obviously, and everyone involved will be examined, I'm sure. <p> If there is anyone else I should be listing, please let me know. Thanks. -]<sup>(])</sup> 07:06, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

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==Island==
{{tb|Talk:Tenedos}}

P.S. Which is common name in English, ] or ] ? ] (]) 05:23, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

== Outcome of community discussion ==

There is no point in blocking now for civility issues occurring previously. Let us instead see if we can prevent repetition. Since all are agreed that WP:MOS is the current flashpoint, and there is a very considerable consensus that you need to stay away from it for some considerable time, let us try this. You are Topic banned from ] and discussions anywhere on the project concerning the Manual of Style or technical aspects of the use of the English language, including this talkpage, for a period of one year. I note that you have already agreed to leave this area alone, so I do not anticipate an enforcement issue, but if you should breach the ban, you can expect to be blocked for one week for a first offence and for the residuum of the topic ban for a repeat offence. If during the topic ban period, another substantial issue to do with civility, tendentious editing, personal attacks and/or disruption should arise, I have to advise that you face being banned from Misplaced Pages permanently. --] (]) 09:28, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
:—Please be careful. ] <small>(] &#124; ])</small> 20:53, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

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== ] ==

Hi Pmanderson. Because you participated at ] (), you may be interested in ]. Administrator {{user|SilkTork}} has reviewed the discussion and has opened a straw poll seeking clarification about several issues before he closes the discussion. Thank you, ] (]) 02:33, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

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== ] article restored to previous version ==
Hi Paul. Anonymous editor ] changed the gist and verifiability of the article on the ancient Greek ] which I had carefully researched and written into, some time ago. I restored the old version after carefully reading the new version many times and seeing some unverifiability in it, even though it seems to present as a "cleanup" re-write. It's just not that. The old version is: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Pharmakos&oldid=78999545


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== What do you think? ==

Hi PM, what would you think of the title, ]? That was rhetorical, but this is not: how about ]? --] (]) 17:14, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

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== Content question ==

... because I wouldn't dare ask you about anything else.

Can you recall an ancient source that says that "German" men sold their wives to the Romans? Tacitus, of course, likes to think that German women are strong and respected (and rather terrifying). I'm trying to find a basis for the claim made by a piece of modern scholarship ]. This seems contrary to German stereotypes among the Romans, even setting aside Tacitus and his particular purposes. I reviewed Strabo superficially, but then got lazy and thought I'd just see whether you knew what might account for this. ] (]) 16:08, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
:Thank you. I've done what I can do there, I think, and I'm going to take a WP break now. As a ], for the sake of sanity. ] (]) 05:18, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

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==mediation==
I moved your opinion up with the others. to make things more clear, i put it as '''conditional support''', since you do not prefer Lar deciding by himself. Apologies if I've done anything wrong with the move, and feel free to re-arrange it or vandalize my own page. :_) just kidding. ciao. ] 19:54, 9 October 2006 (UTC)


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== Katrina Kaif ==

Hello Siafu! I hope this message finds you doing well! I read your comment at the RfC and have replied to you there. I look forward to your response :) Have a nice day! With regards, ]<sup>]</sup> 21:36, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

== Musing ==

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== If you're interested ==

I vaguely remembered you participating in a similar conversation long ago (and looked it up and saw you did), so I wanted to let you a know about recent exchange at ] in case you had some comment to add. Warmest regards --]<sup>]</sup> 01:29, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

== Action at WP:ANI that concerns you ==

PMAnderson, you have some time ago requested that I not post at your page. I am happy not to, of course. But I am obliged now to inform you of at WP:ANI, since it concerns you.

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==RM for "Darius the Great"==
* ''(])'' – '''] → {{noredirect|1=Darius I}}''' ] (]) 01:20, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

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== ] ==
No problem about that at all, I respect the discussion and always glad to have a review of my judgement from time to time. - ''Cheers'', ]''']'''] 11:39, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


I see you've been pretty active on this article since it was created. It is currently ]; but the presence of maintenance tags was a clear issue preventing the nomination from progressing. ] in his most recent edit claims to have: "removed all controversal issues, so therefore there are no issues. Removed Accuracy tags". Given your activity there, and that you placed a number of the tags, would you be able to confirm with me that you are happy those issues have been resolved before I continue with the nomination's review? Kind regards, ''']''' ] 23:12, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
== Constitution of Athens ==


==Please comment on ]==
I noticed you appear to have been one of the main contributors to the article on ]. In the talk page of the said article, I recently posted a diagram representing the Constitution of Athens based on the ''Athenaion Politeia'' attributed to Aristotle. I would like people to comment on it before I propose its inclusion in the article on Athenian democracy. You can take a look at the said diagram here:
{{Quote box|title = Responding to RFCs|width = 35%|quote=<p>Remember that RFCs are part of ] and at times may take place in a heated environment. Please take a look at the relevant RFC page before responding and be sure that you are willing and able to enter that environment and contribute to making the discussion a calm and productive one focussed on the content issue at hand. See also ].</p>}}
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* ]


== Maybe you missed it. ==
Thank you! -- ] 18:46, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


Maybe you missed it, but PBS was just banned for his conduct. I would suggest leaving the discussion open and letting the admins flesh it out. -] (]) 20:46, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
: 1. Would replacing "Electors" by "Voters" do the job?
:Technical point - blocked, not banned -- ] (]) 20:53, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
: 2. Military servants box: You are right. At some point I ran out of space so I created this box. I guess I can move stuff around a bit on the canvas and reinsert boxes for hoplites and horsemen.
: 3. ''Le'' Council of 500: Doh! I'll fix this asap. :-)
: 4. Heliaia as "Juries": Maybe you meant "Heliasts" as Juries? Right now, the names are a mix of Ancient Greek written using the Roman alphabet and English words, some with latin roots. I think for clarity, it is best to use English names whenever it makes sense. For the main institution boxes, I wrote "English name (Greek name)". For the smaller boxes representing "offices", I thought it would end up being too crowded if you know what I mean.
: 5. Where is the best place to write that I made the diagram myself using Dia? Did you mean I should write that I am the author on the diagram itself?
: 6. Judicial senate: I'll look for a better English term. Maybe reading the English translation of the ''Athenaion Politeia'' will help me out.
: 7. The article ] suggests there is no solid evidence that it really is the work of Aristotle himself. The French article also mentions this. I don't know much about this issue myself so I cannot comment. -- ] 21:51, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


== ] ==
:: I updated the diagram on the French language Misplaced Pages. You can see it here: ] It includes some of your suggestions. What do you think? -- ] 02:56, 13 October 2006 (UTC)


PBS had no right to unilaterally close that discussion, nor to protect the page against non-admin editing (the latter I see as abuse of admin tools, and I have blocked him for it and the edit war over the closure). If we have to leave it at any specific state until the discussion is finished, it should be the state at which it was before the controversial action took place - there is currently no consensus, either in the community as a whole or at ANI, to close the RM discussion and stifle the consensus that is clearly developing -- ] (]) 20:52, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
== Re:3RR ==


Thanks for your message. I've told Larry that I agree with your assessment of the 3RR report. I think he must have misunderstood something I said when I blocked him for 3RR. :/ Cheers, ] (]) 01:05, 14 October 2006 (UTC) Just be careful not to stray into problem areas. I know Tony has already warned you on another matter, and you've deleted the warning.--] (]) 21:49, 4 December 2011 (UTC)


==AN/I==
== Please don't yell ==


I had workmen at the apt. today, so I let myself off the hook and edited ]. Let me know what you think. ] (]) 18:13, 14 October 2006 (UTC) Hi. I've requested a review of my actions regarding the ] page, at ], and would welcome your thoughts -- ] (]) 22:20, 4 December 2011 (UTC)


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== You are my sockpuppet ==

apparently ! ] (]) 14:28, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

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== Insight? ==

Hi, PMA.

Perhaps you could provide some insight/clarification on why the change was made to remove the wording that clarified that "recognizability" was in the context of those familiar with the topic? I've started a discussion that includes links to the original wording and an archived discussion about the change, in which you were involved, here: ].

The current wording is being used to argue that titles need to be recognizable to those unfamiliar with the topic.

I restored the familiarity wording, but I've already been reverted. Thanks. --] (]) 07:23, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
:This conversation has been interrupted by the remarks of an editor who wishes to impose an interpretation of my ban (far above) ]. Tony, if you have nothing agreeable to say, and are not required to post, please stay off my talk page; your friends and allies have had the grace to do so. ] <small>]</small> 19:12, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

==Please comment on ]==
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== ANI ==

PMA. I wish it didn’t come to this, but I’ve taken you to ANI, ], for your persistent violations of your topic ban. ] (]) 03:46, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

== Blocked ==

With regret, following the discussion current at ANI. If you were searching for the boundary of your topic ban, you have hit it. I will not need to remind you that any further breaches will have longer consequences, and also that if you are viewed as becoming disruptive (and threatening to cause problems if a discussion does not go your way, which is how is being read, falls into that camp) it is likely that a further discussion in respect of a full ban will ensue. Please be more careful - people are watching your edits and you are unwise to give them ammunition with which to oppose you. --] (]) 14:03, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
:Elen: Please explain, in your view, how any of this is "technical aspects of the English language" - and I will comply with your interpretation of your ban. ] <small>]</small> 21:27, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
::When I looked at it at first I thought "no, he's talking about history, what 'march' and 'marcher' meant in the historical sense. In fact, you may have been. If your evidence had been "Sue, Grabbit and Run all refer to Moravia as a march, and these are the key sources in the English language" then the case would have been closed and the ANI dismissed. The trouble is, the way you phrased it was "in English...this" and "in English...that" and it looks like you're not just arguing about how historically the term was used in English, but about how the descriptions in Czech and German should be translated into English. Clearly the margravine thing, while supported, also only tells part of the story. Obviously once the ruler was called a margrave, the province becomes a margravine (once you're married, the girl automatically becomes your wife), but the question of whether the term 'march' (or equivalent in 'furrin') applied prior to or during the period is one for sources, not discussion on translations. Given that your edits are being watched so carefully, there is a distinct need to be cautious. I also think that saying that you would make some protest if the article was moved is unwise - if you meant 'if the article is moved without a full discussion' then it would be prudent to say that clearly, otherwise you are coming over as saying 'if I disagree with the outcome, I will make trouble'.--] (]) 21:45, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
:::The commment was not so intended, and I accept your criticism.

:::On the substance of the issue, you are essentially correct. I would support a division between the tenth century term, and the nineteenth century term, which are different because the status of Moravia changed; thinking about it, the simplest solution might be ].

:::But I did not take ] (which is more moderate than its label) to be a "technical aspect of English"; was that your intention?

:::And if you could get three or four editors to stop stalking me, and making repeated complaints until they get their way, we could all return to writing the encyclopedia. ] <small>]</small> 03:36, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
:::: I have noted that your edits are being studiously followed.... That is why you have to be so careful with how things will sound. This block has at least damped off the attempt to up the sanctions, and I note that contributors to the discussion did support the view that arguing that one should use English rather than another language was not a technical argument about the english language. I think it possible that had the argument about the use of the term 'march' been phrased completely from a historical context a block might have been avoided. I also think you should try to be a little less combative, but that's just personal advice.] (]) 01:21, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
:::::Elen, I figure you are watching this page so I’ll make this post here. If you are going to hand him advise for keeping him out of further hot water, why not hit the nail on the head?

:::::For at least me—and I suspect many others who typically have run-ins with PMA—it is not about how he might have avoided trouble had his argument been “phrased differently.” As I’ve mentioned before and I’ll say it again: I agree with PMA’s general worldview on using English in an English-language encyclopedia. Sure, PMA and I will have our disagreements over gray areas, like “Crêpe v.s. Crepe”, but I initially ''agreed'' with his position and then changed my mind after seeing new evidence that was later presented.

:::::The ''remedy'' for PMA’s run-ins has been to limit PMA from arguments over technical aspects of English. But the ''problem'' is PMA’s continuing to position himself as a roadblock who simply must be placated if there is to be any end to tendentiousness. Specifically, when he wrote {{xt|Make that '''vehemently oppose'''. We are written in English, not German or Czech; and the meaning of "march" in English is not so limited}}, it seemed clear that he had finally registered a !vote that would be evaluated by a closing admin to discern what consensus, if any, existed. But, not having gained traction with his arguments (which is to say, when it looked like he wasn’t getting his way), he then—''once again''—reverted to his textbook modus operandi of hoping atop the tavern bar and making a pronouncement loud enough for all partygoers to hear: {{xt|If this article is moved, I shall dispute the accuracy of the title}}.

:::::In short, if we are to be handing out advise, I think the more valuable lesson here is that his input would be welcome most anywhere if he could offer a ''single'' post at an RfC or RM move that…

:::::# Was well grounded in Misplaced Pages’s Five Pillars,
:::::# Cited and quoted Misplaced Pages’s relevant policies and guidelines,
:::::# Cited and quoted germane evidence of real-world practices of RSs (or whatever evidence is relevant), and then
:::::# Fell (nearly) silent and didn’t badger and bluster; which is to say desist with acting like he was a Great Force to be reckoned with and had an opinion that out-trumped the others on discussion pages.

::::: If he keeps on being fed advise that amounts to “keep your little pinky out while sipping your English tea and craft your arguments more cleverly so it doesn’t ''look'' like a technical argument”, he’s not going to learn the most important lesson of all: he is but one voice and a little more humility in a collaborative writing environment is in order. ] (]) 05:58, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

== ''The Bugle'': Issue LXIX, November 2011 ==

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== Please use a genuinely authoritative source ==

* . &ndash;One]KnowsAutumn&nbsp;] 14:25, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
**] says that the '' normally presents local official usage in the country concerned (for example, ]); in a handful of cases, like ], it has a conventional name field. Its BGN Approved is a systematic transliteration, as ] — Misplaced Pages prefers ], which is also the BGN conventional name. ''Where it acknowledges a conventional name'', it is evidence of widespread English usage; where it does not, it is not addressing our primary question.'' ] <small>]</small> 21:12, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
** See my arguments on that talk page: The ] uses "Kinmen" exclusively on its English language pages. Why do we overrule their government? Google searches are counter-productive because of incidents from the 1950s; frequency of Misplaced Pages hits is counter-productive because it disseminates incorrect info (redirects are educational); various outdated dictionaries are trumped by official English-language usage. Merriam-Webster hasn't bothered to update its info; perhaps they see Kinmen as a flyspeck. &ndash;One]KnowsAutumn&nbsp;] 00:36, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
:::Why are you holding this discussion here? Take it back to the article talkpage please. --] (]) 01:21, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

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== MOS discussion that may be of interest ==

Because of your previous input on various iterations of the debate about the lower-casing vs. capitalization of the common names of animals (domestic cat, blue whale vs. Domestic Cat, Blue Whale), you may be interested in this thread proposing key points that should be addressed by the guidelines: ]. — <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;">''']''' <span style="white-space:nowrap;">] ʕ(<sup>Õ</sup>ل<sup>ō</sup>)ˀ</span> <small>].</small></span> 05:49, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue LXX, January 2012 ==

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== 99% declaration has been nominated for deletion ==
==AFD==
Thank you for contacting me before going to DRV. I am aware that AFD is not a vote - if it was I would have closed it as "Keep". I consider the "no concensus" decision to be correct, as although the the delete arguments were not fully addressed, I could not see that all the keep arguments were addressed either, and there seemed to be uncertainty as to whether if it was deleted it should be redirected elsewhere and, if so, where. I believe these are matters that can be discussed on the talk page and resolved without the further requirement for AFD, but nevertheless the "no concensus" decision in no way precludes it being relisted at a later date. Cheers, ]] 15:29, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
:I disregarded the OR claims concerning the fact that the Sixth Party System must have come into existence by now, but I did note Uncle G's point of Aldrich's claim and your own research revealing that articles had been written concerning at least the concept of a Sixth Party System. The claims made in the article may have been badly skewed toward the existence of a Sixth Party System, but I judged that would be a matter for cleanup or merging (as I stated in the closing statement). I have no problem with it being radically rewritten, redirected or merged, but I feel it would have been wrong to close it as delete. ]] 16:00, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
::OK. Thanks again for contacting me before taking it to DRV. ]] 16:12, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


Feel free to weigh in on the discussion here: ].--] (]) 11:36, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
==DRV==
Please explain . Why did you delete my !vote? ]|] 02:11, 19 October 2006 (UTC)


==Please comment on ]==
==Discussion of name change of ]==
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== ''The Signpost'': 23 January 2012 ==
Please see ] to discuss a possible name change. - <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;">]</span> 00:40, 21 October 2006 (UTC)


<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
== Are you a sockpuppet of ]? ==
{{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2012-01-23}}
Why did you silently reverted the link from Alexandroupoli to tree and monk
</div><!--Volume 8, Issue 04-->
, which stood there for more than one year and a half, immediattly after the revert war I had with Panarjedde ? -- Bbb1992
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<nowiki>Insert non-formatted text here</nowiki>
* ''']'''
* ]
* ]
* ] (]) 18:49, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
</div>
<!-- EdwardsBot 0224 -->


==Please comment on ]==
==''Signpost'' updated for October 23rd.==
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== ''The Signpost'': 30 January 2012 ==
]

{| width="90%" cellspacing="0" align="center"
<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
{{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2012-01-30}}
</div><!--Volume 8, Issue 05-->
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">
* ''']'''
* ]
* ]
* ] (]) 03:52, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
</div>
<!-- EdwardsBot 0225 -->

==Please comment on ]==
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== ''The Signpost'': 06 February 2012 ==

<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
{{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2012-02-06}}
</div><!--Volume 8, Issue 06-->
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">
* ''']'''
* ]
* ]
* ] (]) 00:12, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
</div>
<!-- EdwardsBot 0227 -->

== February 2012 ==
<div class="user-block" style="min-height: 40px"> ] You have been ''']''' from editing for a period of '''One year''' for using a sockpuppet account ] to circumvent your topic ban.. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to ]. If you would like to be unblocked, you may ] by adding the text <!-- Copy the text as it appears on your page, not as it appears in this edit area. Do not include the "tlx" argument. -->{{tlx|unblock|2=reason=''Your reason here &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126;''}}, but you should read the ] first. ] (]) 12:17, 9 February 2012 (UTC)</div><!-- Template:uw-block -->

== My sympathies==
It's a pity that we are losing your voice from Misplaced Pages. I don't want to pass any judgement on the MOS stuff, which I didn't follow. But I did follow many RMs that you were involved with and it is my opinion that your role was a helpful and productive one. ] (]) 12:16, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

:My initial reaction was something like, ''"Wow, JCScaliger was a sock of PMA?"'' And I assumed a year block was reasonable for circumventing a topic ban by using a sock.<p>But now a few days have passed and I find myself asking a few questions...

:# Did "JCScaliger" do anything wrong, inappropriate, disruptive or harmful to WP in any way?
:# What about ''no harm no foul''?
:# If the purpose of blocking is not punishment, and neither PMA nor JCS was causing WP any harm, what is the purpose of this block again?
:#I understand that threatened consequences have to be carried out in order for them to be effective as deterrents. But it seems to me that we should block editors only for engaging in behavior that is actually problematic, and even then only when the blocking is the only reasonable method to solve the problem in question. Is that the case here?
:#Even assuming a topic ban is justified, what if anything is inherently wrong with that user using a sock to edit in the banned area as long as the editing is not problematic?

:Misplaced Pages - the encyclopedia ''anyone'' can edit... anyone but PMA, that is... <p>Anyway, best wishes to you. I miss your pithy commentary, to say the least. --] (]) 07:49, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
:*He got caught. I'm surprised in the other direction. Violating a topic ban is taken quite seriously here on WP; socking is regarded as the Cardinal Sin, AFAICT. --<small>] ]</small> 08:46, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

==To a fallen comrade==
:There is a homily ],
:which was said many times by he called Christ,
:],
:spoken loud and clear from the Holy Spirit,
:It is not from Shakespeare or even his Hamlet,
:but sometimes is called the ].
:So next time you start to put on your shoe,
:think what you would have others to do,
:The Torah said it’s not from a ],
:is oftentimes called the ].
:The Holy Spirit you did not hear,
:not even others that spoke so dear,
:You gave no credit,
:not even a pence,
:which I would say,
:lacks ]
:You danced around ],
:that only angered a trusted prince,
:she gave you clear and bright advice,
:before you got the ].
:Now we plug along our way,
:to make our normal harvest hay,
:no bugs or pests to bother ],
:from ] and ] we now can hop,
:when later we see you oh my dear,
:which many I'm sure would like a year.
:The ] is there for you,
:if only you had eyes to view,
:But even then you would not know,
:for ].
:Now again I’ll reveal the secret,
:pray this time you have de grit,
:],
:it is nothing but common sense.
:Here is a little more for you to bear,
:that I am sure you wish not to hear.
:This is Wiki and not ''your'' ],
:my friend and companion is Ursula.
:Since it looks like you are still in ],
:I suggest you contact ]----] (]) 13:45, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 13 February 2012 ==

<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
{{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2012-02-13}}
</div><!--Volume 8, Issue 07-->
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">
* ''']'''
* ]
* ]
* ] (]) 03:49, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
</div>
<!-- EdwardsBot 0229 -->

== Leisure time ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''Semi-retired for awhile?'''
|- |-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Enjoy your ] ] <sup>]</sup> 22:53, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
| colspan=3 |
----
|-
| align="left" | '''Volume 2, Issue 43''' || align ="center" | '''] ]''' || align="right" | ''']'''
|-
| colspan=3 align=center |
----
|} |}

{| align="center" cellspacing="20" width=90%
== ''The Signpost'': 20 February 2012 ==
| width=50% | ]

| width=50% | ]
<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
|-
| width=50% | ] {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2012-02-20}}
</div><!--Volume 8, Issue 08-->
| width=50% | ]
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">
* ''']'''
* ]
* ]
* ] (]) 23:34, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
</div>
<!-- EdwardsBot 0232 -->

== ''The Bugle'': Issue LXXI, February 2012 ==

{| style="width: 100%;"
| valign="top" style="border: 1px gray solid; padding: 1em;" |
{|
| ]
| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book reviews: '']''
<!--* Review essay: '']-->
* Op-ed: '']''
</div>
|- |-
| width=50% | ]
| width=50% |
|} |}
|}
<div style="font-size: 85%; margin:0 auto; text-align:center;">
''The Bugle'' is published by the ]. To receive it on your talk page, please ] or sign up ].<br/>If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from ]. Your editors, ] (]) and ]&nbsp;<sup>]] ]]</sup> 10:19, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
</div>
<!-- EdwardsBot 0233 -->


== Rats! ==
{| width="90%" cellspacing="0" align="center"

| colspan=2 |
Why is it always the good ones who have to go :) I can't get myself het up over the MOS stuff but your always thoughtful comments on various move discussions will be sorely missed. Interesting (the group sociology of wikipedia). --] <small>(])</small> 00:52, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
:Thank you; it's a social website, not an encyclopedia. The social dynamic here seems out of Milan Kundera; the picture of enraptured youth dancing in a circle. ] <small>]</small> 23:24, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

==Republic of China article==
Since you have previously discussed about the Republic of China, I guess you are interested to share your insights at ]. Thanks for your attention. ] (]) 18:50, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

== ] closed ==
An arbitration case regarding article titles and capitalisation has now closed and the final decision is viewable at the link above. The following remedies have been enacted:
#All parties are reminded to avoid personalizing disputes concerning the Manual of Style, the article titles policy (']'), and similar policy and guideline pages, and to work collegiately towards a workable consensus. In particular, a rapid cycle of editing these pages to reflect one's viewpoint, ''then'' discussing the changes is disruptive and should be avoided. Instead, parties are encouraged to establish consensus on the talk page first, and then make the changes.
#] is indefinitely prohibited from engaging in discussions and edits relating to the Manual of Style or policy about article titles.
#] are authorized for all pages related to the English Misplaced Pages ] and ], broadly construed.
#] is warned that his contributions to discussion must reflect a better receptiveness to compromise and a higher tolerance for the views of other editors.

For the Arbitration Committee, ] (]) 22:59, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

==Dispute resolution survey==
{| style="background-color: #CCFFFF; border: 4px solid #3399cc; width:100%" cellpadding="5"
| ]
<big>'''Dispute Resolution – ''Survey Invite'''''</big>
---- ----
Hello {{BASEPAGENAME}}. I am currently conducting a study on the dispute resolution processes on the English Misplaced Pages, in the hope that the results will help improve these processes in the future. Whether you have used dispute resolution a little or a lot, now we need to know about your experience. The survey takes around five minutes, and the information you provide will not be shared with third parties other than to assist in analyzing the results of the survey. No personally identifiable information will be released.
|-
| align="left" | ''']''' &nbsp;|&nbsp; ] &nbsp;|&nbsp; ] &nbsp;|&nbsp; ]
'''Please click to participate.'''<br>
| align = "right" | <small>] : ]</small>
Many thanks in advance for your comments and thoughts.
|-
| colspan=2 |
---- ----
<small>You are receiving this invitation because you have had some activity in dispute resolution over the past year. For more information, please see the associated ]. <span style="font-family:Verdana;">] ] <sup>]</sup></span> 12:05, 5 April 2012 (UTC)</small>
|} |}
<small>You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the ]. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. ] 06:30, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


== Requested move of ] ==
== Today's featured article ==
There is currently a discussion on moving the article ] to ]. You are being notified since you participated in a previous discussion on this topic. Please join the discussion ] if you are interested. ] (]) 02:25, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
{{WD-notice|article=0.999...|day=today}} ] 00:35, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

== Halfway through ==

]
Don't know whether you ever look here during your exile, but just wanted to let you know that I miss asking for your informed opinions. ] (]) 02:06, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

== Moving ] - ongoing poll ==

This is to let you know that an ongoing poll is taking place to move . I know this happened just recently but no administrator would close these frequent rm's down, so here we go again. This note is going out to wikipedia members who have participated in Burma/Myanmar name changing polls in the past. It does not include banned members nor those with only ip addresses. Thank you. ] (]) 23:33, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

== '''The Olive Branch''': A Dispute Resolution Newsletter (Issue #1) ==

Welcome to the first edition of ''The Olive Branch''. This will be a place to semi-regularly update editors active in ] (DR) about some of the most important issues, advances, and challenges in the area. You were delivered this update because you are ], but if you would prefer not to receive any future mailing, just add your name to ].
]
In this issue:
* '''Background''': A brief overview of the DR ecosystem.
* '''Research''': The most recent DR data
* '''Survey results''': Highlights from Steven Zhang's April 2012 survey
* '''Activity analysis''': Where DR happened, broken down by the top DR forums
* '''DR Noticeboard comparison''': How the newest DR forum has progressed between May and August
* '''Discussion update''': Checking up on the Wikiquette Assistance close debate
* '''Proposal''': It's time to close the ]. Agree or disagree?
<div style="text-align:center; font-size:larger;">]</div>

--''The Olive Branch'' 19:23, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
<!-- EdwardsBot 0345 -->
== ] of ] ==
]] has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at ].<!--Template:Tfdnotice--> —]<span style="color:red">❤]☮]☺]☯</span> 06:10, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
== Misplaced Pages:SPIDER listed at ] ==
]
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect ]. Since you had some involvement with the ''Misplaced Pages:SPIDER'' redirect, you might want to participate in ] (if you have not already done so). <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> ''']''' ] <small>@</small> 21:06, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Early greetings for the new year ==

<center>
{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | '''Best Wishes for a Happy New Year!'''<br>May 2013 bring you rewarding experiences and an abundance of everything you most treasure.<br>] (]) 16:59, 28 December 2012 (UTC)<br>
<br><small>''], ], ], and ]'' (1532–34) by ]</small>
|}
</center>

Don't know whether you're coming back, or if so under this name, but your erudition is missed. ] (]) 16:59, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

==Please comment on ]==
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== Welcome back! ==

I see you're editing again - good to have you back! --] <small>(])</small> 18:25, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

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==Joshua tree==
Your opinion is needed at ] -- ] (]) 20:22, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

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== Maybe self-proclaimed naming and advocacy? ==

Help please! We're in a bit of a pickle and . Thank uou for your brief attention. --] (]) 00:09, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

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== WP Classical Greece and Rome in the ''Signpost'' ==

The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome for a ''Signpost'' article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, ''']'''. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions, so be sure to sign your answers. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Have a great day. ] (]) 01:22, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

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== Welcome back. ==

Glad to see you editing again. ] ≠ ] 02:53, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

== Article titles for legislative acts ==

I thought that you might be interested in the potential discussion at ]. You might also take a look at ]. --] (]) 20:53, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

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==Talkback from ]==
{{talkback|Talk:Beersheba|May 8, 2013 requested move.|ts=12:54, 8 May 2013 (UTC)}}
Another move request for this page. ] (]) 12:54, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

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== Please comment on ] ==

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== Requested move ==

Hello, Pmanderson. You have already expressed your opinion once at ] about this. I thought that perhaps my ] might be of interest to you also. Thanks. ] ] 18:02, 6 August 2013 (UTC)


== RM: Berlin Central Station → Berlin Hauptbahnhof ==

* ''(])'' – '''] → {{noredirect|1=Berlin Hauptbahnhof}}''' ] (]) 13:06, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

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== Where should Siam redirect? ==

Where should the ''']''' page redirect? Please discuss at ]. — ] 03:01, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

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==On a break?==
I've missed your contributions and wondered whether you are returning? ] (]) 07:35, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
:"sigh" - That's too bad. ] (]) 16:25, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

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==Plant article naming convention ==
Hi Pmanderson. There is a plant article naming convention request at the Help Desk. I saw your name listed at and am hoping you would post your thoughts at ]. Thanks. -- ] (]) 13:55, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

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== Please comment on an RfC about Living members of deposed royal families and the titles attributed to them on WP ==

Hello - I have opened an RfC about suggested guidelines in the Manual of Style for articles about living members of families whose ancestors were deposed as monarchs of various countries and the titles and "styles" attributed to these living people, at the moment often in a misleading and inaccurate way in my opinion. Please join in the discussion at ] "Use of royal "Titles and styles" and honorific prefixes in articles and templates referring to pretenders to abolished royal titles and their families"Regards,] (]) 07:21, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

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== A new edit ==

You made a change to a page on my watch list, the first one I have seen you make in a long time. Welcome back. -- ] (]) 02:37, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

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== Remember Rktect? ==

See ]. ] (]) 21:59, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

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==Hi==
Hi, it's nice to see you editing a bit more. I wanted to say so before, but I was on break myself in November-December (sulking, you know). Bishzilla says <s>hello</s> rawrr. You're most welcome to hang out in the ], she's been decorating it. Enjoy winter sports! Decompress in Poet's Corner! ] &#124; ] 15:33, 12 January 2014 (UTC).

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== A little help required. ==

Hi,

I'm a special educator working in a deaf school in Tura, Meghalaya, India. I'm doing a project on Sign Languages to help out the Deaf community here understand their roots. I don't have access to Project Muse and there is this book which I need - Deafway : Perspectives from the International Conference on Deaf Culture.

http://muse.jhu.edu/books/9781563682032

I work in an institution, where they can't afford to subscribe to Project Muse. If you could help me this, I'll be really grateful.

Thank you! <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 10:29, 17 August 2014 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

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== D-R party RM ==

Perhaps you can ]. ] (]) 03:30, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

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== John A. Shaw ==

Hi there, several years ago, you were involved with the ''']''' article, and expressed some concern about it being POV. Well, the page is still quite problematic, and I happen to be working on behalf of Mr. Shaw, so I've just posted a request about a problem with the introduction. (].) Perhaps you could help? Let me know if you find a moment to look at it. Best, ] (] · ]) 22:28, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

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Hello! I am soliciting comments for an RfC that is ] There is disagreement about where the film was set (New York vs. Chicago).

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==Hello==
I do not seem to have seen you around for ages, so it is nice to know that you are still here. ] (]) 09:55, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
:Seconded. Hope you decide to make more than the occasional visit. --] <small>(])</small> 03:16, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
::Let me know if there is anything interesting. The usual level of Wikidiocy seems to be taking over. ] <small>]</small> 16:53, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

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== Moving Burma to Myanmar - new 2015 poll ==

You participated in a Burma RM in the past so I'm informing you of another RM. I hope I didn't miss anyone. ] ] (]) 08:54, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

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==Have some cheese==
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== Something that may interest you ==

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== Changing dates in biographies ==

Hi, if you find a better source and change a date in a biography, as you did here, please also change related data: infobox at top, succession boxes at bottom, categories, and the succeeding article. – ] ''']'''] 07:06, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

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:This page was kept, with old history merged in. If you are not working on this any more, you may want to move it to the Draft: namespace where others may take over. — ] <sup>]</sup> 16:00, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

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== Heya ==

Didn't realize you were back. About time. I ran across your off-WP sig at the WHATWG wiki the other day (though I think it was on an old post), and was wondering if you'd return here. Will be nice to have another "MoS is important" voice around again, even if we sometimes don't agree on every quibble. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — ] ] ] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 01:31, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
:Thanks. I'm not sure how much I will be discussing MOS. ] <small>]</small> 03:06, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
::Understood. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — ] ] ] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 01:04, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

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== Infinity (philosophy) ==

Hi. Many many years ago you added stuff re Jains to Infinity which is now ]. But you gave no sources; well, it was the wild west in those days. I've just cn'd them . Do you recall your sources? ] (]) 09:19, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

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In a RfC at the above page you said I was mistaken. Just out of curiosity, what was I mistaken about?--] (]) 08:22, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

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==Hello==
Hi. I just noticed your name and was glad to see that you are still here! Our paths don't seem to have crossed for a long time. ] (]) 08:03, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

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== mathematics ==

In this , you inserted "Both senses can be found in Plato", citing (in addition to OED) for "''learning'', ''study'', ''science'', and additionally came to have the narrower and more technical meaning 'mathematical study', even in Classical times."

Perhaps I misread, but there it looks like L&S cites Plato for 'fond of learning' (Timaeus) and 'scientific' (Sophist) but cites Aristotle for 'mathematical' (Nicomachean Ethics, Metaphysics). I don't have OED on-hand but wanted to check the L&S cite. Thx, ] (]) 19:32, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
:Thank you, I misread the OED, which ascribes the concept to Plato (Republic 510c), but the word is Aristotle's. I shall emend. ] <small>]</small> 23:38, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

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== Sarehole ==

It was not close to the boundary (a good mile in any direction), Carpenter is not a reliable source for geography, and nor was Tolkien. I'll wait 24 hours then revert you, and continue doing so. ] (]) 00:45, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
:Zetterstein, who is a source ''for'' Worcestershire, says "close" - and he saw a map. And a mile seems close to me. Now find a source for your ownership. ] <small>]</small> 00:48, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
::Either it was in Worcestershire, or it wasn't. And it was. You are either wrong or right. And you're wrong. Please check out the map I provided for you, if you can be bothered to find out the postcode for Sarehole Mill. To repeat: literary biographers are not reliable sources for administrative geography. ] (]) 00:54, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

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== Jstor personalisation ==

Let's check that. Pick the topic, and let's do two independent searches using an identical keyword list. It would be interesting to see if Jstor performs personalized search. Frankly, I doubt it does, because its search engine looks much less advanced than google or google.scholar, but it would be interesting to check. I suggest two topics: WWII history (my search history in that area is very long), and something about, for example, history of Spain, or Buddhism or history of medieval Germany (I never used Jstor for that). Propose two search phrases, and let's compare first 10 references.--] (]) 05:57, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

:Here are my results:

:* :

::First: Zaloga, The Journal of Military History, Vol. 62, No. 3 (Jul., 1998), pp. 706-708

::Second: Thomas, Journal of Contemporary History, Vol. 22, No. 2, Intelligence Services during the Second World War (Apr., 1987), pp. 261-301

::Third: The Journal of Military History, Vol. 59, No. 1 (Jan., 1995), pp. 191-197

::Fourth: Jahrbücher für Geschichte Osteuropas, Neue Folge, Bd. 63, H. 4, Feldherren und Soldaten: Russische Konzeptionen des Kriegshelden im 19. und frühen 20. Jahrhundert (2015), pp. 545-572

::Fifth: Masha Cerovic Seeking Peace in the Wake of War: Europe, 1943-1947, Amsterdam University Press (2015)

:* :

::First:Reformation: Luther and the Protestant Revolt. Review by: Albrecht Classen. Die Unterrichtspraxis / Teaching German, Vol. 36, No. 1 (Spring, 2003), pp. 114-115

::Second:Studies in the Reformation: Luther to Hooker by W. D. J. Cargill Thompson, C. W. Dugmore. Review by: Cecile Zinberg Church History, Vol. 51, No. 4 (Dec., 1982), pp. 459-460

::Third:Reformation Principle and Practice. Essays in Honour of A. G. Dickens by Peter Newman Brooks. Studies in the Reformation: Luther to Hooker by W. D. J. Cargill Thompson, C. W. Dugmore. Review by: Christopher Haigh. The English Historical Review, Vol. 97, No. 385 (Oct., 1982), pp. 846-848

::Fourth: Thurman L. Smith. The Sixteenth Century Journal, Vol. 20, No. 2 (Summer, 1989), pp. 183-201

::Fifth: Thomas A. Fudge. The Sixteenth Century Journal, Vol. 34, No. 2, Marriage in Early Modern Europe (Summer, 2003), pp. 319-345

:Do you get the same results?--] (]) 17:29, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

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{{TABLE}}
{| width="100%" style="background-color:<!-- Bug -->#F5FFFA"
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{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" style="vertical-align:top; background-color:<!-- Bug -->#F5FFFA"
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<p>

==For editors==
Dear editor Pmanderson,

I am professor of theoretical physics and hope you are PhD as well. My russian students are very dissapointed to know that the article "Fock symmetry of hydrogen" is removed (redirected to "Laplace-Runge- Lenz vector"). I don't want to edit and critize the article . It is of high quality and well written.

Nevertheless, author did not read Fock's original paper. It is a reason why the basic content in
section "Fock symmetry" doesn't concern to the subject totally and why mine separate article is written.
I will allow myself to point out following grounds for the new article:
* Fock theory is done for the momentum space '''where Laplace-Runge-Lenz vector is nonexistent'''. Why :author does consider it there?
* The Schrodinger equation in momentum space is '''integral one''',
* Fock theory is applied to '''integral equation that is not discussed in the section''',
* Fock's symmetry is '''mathematical result''' for momentum space turned into 3-D sphere.

Physical interpretation is valid in physical coordinate space only. So,'''following words from the section are inaccurate'''-''"Vladimir Fock showed that the quantum mechanical bound Kepler problem is equivalent to the problem of a free particle confined to a three-dimensional unit-sphere in four dimensional space".''
Here,'''reader is deceived.''' No free particle in any physical space here in the problem. Fock doesn't give such interpretation.

Kindly try to calm my students and '''restore my article''' "Fock symmetry in theory of hydrogen". I would appreciate Yours help to compose perfect american English as far as I am not graduated from Princeton University as probably editor who removed the article.

Sincerely Yours </p></div>
|}


] (]) 19:19, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
== Paul Cornell ==


== Kwami ==
Your notations on ] almost felt like vandalism. I had gone to a borders this weekend and taken notes from the Encyclopedia of Chicago and other books. Today, I checked out the Encyclopedia of Chicago and will look more closely over the next few days. I am not sure what your complaint is about. I also think you should remove the quality standards tag, but will await your comment. ] 18:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


Me and another editor are experiencing gatekeeping issues from this user. What can you tell me about your experiences with him? He seems to have a penchant for removing valid maintenance tags without resolving the problem, ignores talk page discussions while repeatedly reverting the article, and other bad editing habits. Unless you're avoiding him for some reason (I know these things can happen), would you mind watchlisting ] and ]? ] (]) 19:53, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
See new response at ].


==RfC in final stages of development==
See revision. ] 17:32, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Hello Pmanderson. ]. I am messaging you because you participated in talk page discussions in 2011 which led to the initial inclusion of wp:noconsensus. Any ideas or help you may wish to contribute before the RfC goes live will be appreciated. Thank you.--] (]) 23:00, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
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== FAR for Macedonia (terminology) ==
==Dee==


] has nominated ] for a ]. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the ]. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are ].<!--Template:FARMessage--> ] (]) 03:18, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
I want to make clear to you that my only intention with ] article is to adapt it to current days FA criteria. Whether we like it or not (I do, by the way!) inline citations are a confirmed criterion and the implied or other ways of sourcing something you mentioned in your comments are not enough. You'll see that now that Yomangani did an excellent referencing job I changed my vote. My intention in FARC is to keep articles not remove them; but keep them in accordance to nowadays FA criteria. Cheers!--] 07:24, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
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:We obviously disagree in how a good article should be structured. I respect your point of view, but I totally disagree. I regard inline citations not as a waste of time, but as a gain of time.
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== Happy New Year, Pmanderson! ==
:If you want to use ] as a bad example, you can do it. I have no problem. The article is confirmed by the Misplaced Pages community, including you, as a FA. So, I'm Ok. If you want to use other articles for your purpose I can also mention some. Speaking of the articles I've edited, you can use ], ] or ].
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'''Pmanderson''',<br />Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable ], and thanks for your contributions to Misplaced Pages.
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== CfD nomination at {{Section link| Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 September 5#Greek mythology by region }} ==
:Once again, I honestly believe that your purpose is the improvement of the Misplaced Pages's article. But I think that yor way is not the right one. I totally respect your point of view, but I regard it as wrong and irrational. Cheers!--] 18:49, 29 October 2006 (UTC)


<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">]</div>A category or categories you have created have been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the ] guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at '''{{Section link| Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 September 5#Greek mythology by region }}''' on the ] page.<!-- Template:Cfd mass notify--> Thank you. ] (]) 12:29, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
==More Dee==
I wasn't taking offense, just pointing out that it was only cited because it was essentially zero cost in that instance. If a source is referred to by name and author in the text, I certainly don't think an inline citation is required, but if you look futher down the comments you'll see my rationale as to why I think inline citations are, in general, a necessary evil. Cheers, ]] 15:45, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 12:29, 5 September 2024

Mephistopheles

This is Rich Dengrove, the fellow who contributed to the article on Mephistopheles. You doubted that Michael Psellos had talked about an order of demons called the Misophaes, or Light Haters. You said you wanted either the passage itself or a citation. Being lazy and not being able to read Greek, I will give you the citation of my source, Jeffrey Russell. J.P.Migne, ed., Patrologia Graeca, "On the Work of the Demons," 122.819-876. Also, The "Life of Saint Auxentius," ed. Perikles-Petros Joannou,Démonologie populaire, démonologie critique au XIe siécle: La vie inédite de S. Auxence, par M. Psellos (Wiesbaden, 1971). I would have written the title of the first article in Greek but I am not certain which of the letters below are equivalent. If need be,I will make this citation into a PDF file and send it to you.

Yours,

Rich Dengrove User:RDengrove

Incivility at WT:PLACES

Please do not make derisive and/or maligning comments about me (or any other editor) in article/guideline talk page discussions as you did recently at WT:PLACES . Announcing your opinion about another editor, that he is "prepared to be disruptive for years until he gets his way", is taunting, baiting, maligning and generally contrary to the type of behavior encouraged at WP:CIVIL.

If you have an issue with an editor's behavior, please take it up in an appropriate forum, normally starting with that editor's talk page, for which this post may serve as an example. Thank you. --Born2cycle (talk) 01:04, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

stop You made another derisive comment about me here. You, wrote, about a suggestion I made, "This would worsen Misplaced Pages - although it would help B2C's long term agenda.". Sharing vague conjectures about another editor's "long term agenda" in such a blatantly negative light can have no purpose other than to malign that editor, and is highly inappropriate. WP:CIVIL clearly states, " Stated-simply, editors should always treat each other with consideration and respect.". Statements like this are not examples of how editors "treat each other with consideration and respect." Second request in two days. Please stop. --Born2cycle (talk) 23:00, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

And this one too: "We need to ignore Born2Cycle's persistent and solitary efforts to destabilize." Characterizing the efforts of another editor as "persistent and solitary efforts to destabilize" is uncivil. Again, if you have an issue with an editor's behavior, you should take it up in an appropriate forum; a guideline talk page is not that. --Born2cycle (talk) 00:51, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents regarding reason for discussion. The thread is Uncivil behavior and harassment from Pmanderson.The discussion is about the topic Misplaced Pages:HARASSMENT. Thank you. —Born2cycle (talk) 01:24, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Wikiquette

I'd like to ask you to back off and concentrate on doing something a little more constructive in this new year, such as some actual editing or maybe even creating new articles. To avoid any accusations of favouritism, I am simultaneously making the same request to those who have been your opponents in recent arguments. I don't want to see good/potentially good contributors slipping into this cycle (forgive the pun) of mutual recrimination and the constant arguments are becoming more than a little irritating. Deb (talk) 14:08, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm glad you took the short break but hope that you can stay away from B2C from now on - otherwise you may end up getting a kicking and that's not the outcome I would prefer. Deb (talk) 22:39, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 3 January 2011

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 00:59, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Wave dash

I removed the wave dash from that section on WP:MOS-JA for two reasons:

  1. Its usage is currently under discussion on the talk page, and there is a consensus that perhaps it should be brought up for a greater discussion and
  2. There is no reason to explain why a particular character should not be used twice on the same page. It is already covered in WP:MOS-JA#Titles of books and other media.

Please do not revert, again, and instead initiate discussion on the talk page like a normal editor.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 02:33, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for announcing your revert war. Unless you are doing so again, please stay off my talk page. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 02:38, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
Maybe you shouldn't start them yourself. I have added content concerning the wave dash back to that section, but it is not necessary to have it prohibited twice on the same page, particularly if there is a consensus that it should not be prohibited. Perhaps there would not be a revert war if editors such as yourself and Jpatokal did not find themselves to be the police of WP:AT and the other manuals of style.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 02:43, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

One last try

THIS MESSAGE IS FOR USERS Pmanderson AND Born2cycle

Okay, this really is my last attempt to avoid one or both of you getting blocked. Please please please will you consider the following course of action?

1. Voluntarily stay away from the following pages for a period of one month:

2. Stop feeling that you need to have the last word - that isn't any kind of victory

If you could both find the self-discipline to follow this suggestion (which I realise I have no right to make), I feel sure you would not regret it in the long run. Deb (talk) 18:22, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Lady Elizabeth Cromwell

Hi. Can you clear this doubt for me please? Was the title of Baron Cromwell, said of Oakham, of Gregory Cromwell a new title or the old title of Baron Cromwell, said of Wimbledon, with its attainder lifted? Konakonian (talk) 16:47, 10 January 2011 (UTC) cracroftspeerage.co.uk says it is the same title, but thepeerage.com says otherwise. Konakonian (talk) 16:49, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Baron Cromwell

Thank you, then. So, there was never a case where the attainder was lifted only for the smaller titles? Or is it just in case of restoration of a forfeiture? Konakonian (talk) 21:44, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 10 January 2011

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 05:34, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Hadamard three-lines theorem

You are probably aware that Hadamard (disambiguation) has been significantly changed by me recently at the request of Elonka (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) on my talk page. I replied to her request there , mentioning that I had previously added quite a lot of content related to Hadamard to wikipedia, including a stub Hadamard's method of descent, needed for another article on spherical functions. Her request resulted in the correction and expansion of parametrix (together with the redirect Hadamard parametrix construction) and the doubling and restructuring of the disambiguation page. I had not finished adding content. You made two small grammatical corrections which were mathematically not quite accurate and I made the statements more precise. You reverted my changes, claiming hounding. But that showed no recognition of the fact that I had in fact been making major changes to that page and articles linking to it. This morning I restored my changes and, having in the meantime created Hadamard three-lines theorem, then added it in the relevant section (complex analysis and convexity). You removed that new link in your edits, with an edit summary WP:HOUNDING. But my last edit summary clearly had "+ 3 lines". You apparently did not check to see what that meant, and so removed the link to the new article I had just created. I wonder if you could please try to act more reasonably? You have followed me to a disambiguation article which I was requested to improve by an administrator, despite being very busy in real life (hence the wikibreak from articles). Please could you stop removing links to new wikipedia articles from the disambiguation page? I have no idea why you have been doing so. Mathsci (talk) 16:04, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Uhhh

... that's not "ethnic pointmaking" but a straight forward application of the Danzig/Gdansk vote: For Gdansk and other locations that share a history between Germany and Poland, the first reference of one name in an article should also include a reference to other names, e.g. Danzig (now Gdańsk, Poland) or Gdańsk (Danzig), hence it should be "Waldenburg (Wałbrzych)" etc.  Volunteer Marek  19:19, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

You keep accusing me of having some idiosyncratic interpretation of the vote. How else would you "interpret" For Gdansk and other locations that share a history between Germany and Poland??? Clearly the place shares a history between Germany and Poland. How else would you "interpret" the first reference of one name in an article should also include a reference to other names. The first reference to Waldenburg appears and hence it "should also include a reference to other names" - Walbrzych. There's not much room for interpretation here, it's all pretty straightforward. Your accusation is completely specious and perhaps bad faithed. Volunteer Marek  22:39, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

How to title an article

In order to address the argument that without specific naming conventions article titling would be chaotic and unpredictable, I've attempted to describe the process of determining a title that clearly shows that usually specific naming conventions are not needed. I'm asking a few select individuals to look at it before I open it for general review at WT:TITLE.

If you could take a few minutes to review it and let me know what you think, I would really appreciate it. Do you think we could incorporate this or something like it into WP:TITLE? Thanks. Here is the link: User:Born2cycle/how2title. Please leave your comments on the talk page of that subpage, User talk:Born2cycle/how2title. --Born2cycle (talk) 21:43, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks + mediation suggestion

Thank you for your support. There is one place I could offer my services as a mediator on this subject - WT:POLAND, which per previous amendment is the one and only forum where I can discuss all issues. If you'd explain the situation there, I and perhaps others could try to offer our input there. PS. Your page could use archiving. Perhaps you could use automatic archiving, like on my page? It is quite simple, and I could even set it up for you. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 00:35, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Nope, but it could be that I just don't use them. Try asking about it at WP:VPT. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 02:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok, how about we try to start this over again

From the beginning, clean slate.

  • I made my edit with the understanding that the Gdanzig vote was still in force.
  • I have never seen anything anywhere that would indicate that the Gdanzig vote is no longer valid. It has been quoted at me, it has been invoked recently by others, all the templates pertaining to it are still up on all the relevant articles' talk pages. So even if it is no longer applicable, please excuse me for thinking otherwise. My edit was made entirely in good faith (I admit to getting somewhat pissed off when you came in obviously assuming otherwise)
  • I have been editing Misplaced Pages for more than six years. During that time, I've observed that the Gdanzig vote, however "lame" it may be, is one of the few rare examples of a Misplaced Pages policy decision that has actually worked.
  • It has worked in the sense that it clears up practice and prevents multiple edit wars. For better or worse (better, actually), editors, even die hard POV warriors seem to respect it (maybe because it is sort of famous, even outside Misplaced Pages).
  • Without the Gdanzig vote, pretty much every single article on Polish-German places, where naming is in doubt is a potential edit war magnet. This in fact is the situation that led to the vote.
  • There are actually almost (except for an occasional flare up, usually involving new editors) NO edit wars or disputes on German-Polish articles where geographic naming is concerned. And this is mostly due to the existence of the Gdanzig vote (same thing is not true about articles on persons - but that's because the vote is unclear in that regard). You get rid of the Gdanzig vote, you're opening up a Pandora's box.
  • On the other hand Ukrainian/Russian naming conventions or Polish/Lithuanian ones or Romanian/Hungarian ones or whatever, are still a source of perennial disputes - this suggests that the problem in these areas is actually a LACK of a specific hard guideline. The problem is not with the Gdanzig vote, but with the fact that similar policies haven't been developed for other dispute prone areas.
  • It does not degrade the quality of the article in anyway - in fact it improves it - to provide additional information about the present day name of the places.

The reason I'm quite irked by this is that I was actually at the article because I noticed that there is no Misplaced Pages articles on the Hochbergs - a certifiably German family (though one of the more recent members volunteered for the Polish army in WWII) (and if it counts for anything, had I been around when the RM for the article was ongoing I would've voted for "Duchy of Pless" since that appears to be the name used in English sources), and a very interesting one at that. They deserve to have an article on them and I happen to have some materials (including images, like for example the image of a statue of Daisy (which I uploaded , but also some sources) on them and I was thinking about creating a series of relevant articles and writing it up. Now I'm not so sure I should even bother.

So how about just letting the dispute go, restoring the names per Gdanzig vote, and then we can discuss the present relevancy of the vote to naming conventions - I also happen to think that it should be updated in some respects but that's a big issue that hasn't been addressed before and it lies outside the scope of this particular provincial disagreement. Cheers. Volunteer Marek  08:28, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of General average/New version for deletion

The article General average/New version is being discussed concerning whether it is suitable for inclusion as an article according to Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/General average/New version until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. -- Whpq (talk) 17:26, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Margaret Pole

  • She was née Plantagenet because her brother and father and other relatives used that surname. If not, then someone should correct those articles too.
  • According to the list and succession of the creations of the title of Earl of Salisbury, she's the 8th Countess. I've never heard of any doubt, specially since it's such a clear and high title. If the title came through female line, from Montagu to Neville, as it did, then he was its heir. Also, in every publications such as Les Dynasties d' Europe or Alison Weir's, Britain's Royal Family: A Complete Genealogy (London, U.K.: The Bodley Head, 1999), page 137, and Charles Mosley, editor's, Burke's Peerage and Baronetage, 106th edition, 2 volumes (Crans, Switzerland: Burke's Peerage (Genealogical Books) Ltd, 1999), volume 1, page 16 mention her brother as Earl of Warwick, a title that also fell into female lines.
  • She was also 10th and 7th Baroness Montacute, two peerages that have no connection to the one of Baron Montagu of her son. On Baron Montacute, you can see how she became, after her brother, the heiress of both titles.

Konakonian (talk) 15:59, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

I understand now: it was like the new Dukedoms of Lancaster and Norfolk. All the titles of these houses were inherited, except the Dukedoms, that had to be recreated. User:Agricolae has been untiring in removing the "surname" Platagenet from other articles, but he stated that it had become a surname only later, and later means York. Apparently, it was never a surname per se, only a nickname.
The title of Earl of Warwick should've been inherited, as the title of Earl of Salisbury, by the issue of the Kingmaker, but if they were forfeit and never restored, regranted instead despite in the heirs of the forfeited ones, then it explains it all.
It's true that eve the Royal Succession followed a Semi-Salic Law, and for that reason so would the titles. But there were cases in which they followed female line succession: the Earldoms of Warwick and Salisbury did, and even the claim to the Royal succession through the Duke of Clarence was valid by primogeniture and mere male preference, and Henry VII was the heir of the Lancasters not by virtue of semi-salic succession but my male preference only; see also Baron Clinton and Baron Compton, Baron Cobham and other contemporary baronies: the first two titles went through female line, dispossessing the actual families of those names, the ones of the Earls of Northampton and the Earls of Lincoln, through male preference, and the second ones fell into female line, either through semi-salic or male preference succession.

Konakonian (talk) 16:36, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

So Henry IV was the heir by taking the power from Richard II rather than being the closest male heir in male line. And the same went with Edward IV, already in dispute with Henry VI despite the existance of other legitimized Lancaster males, already dead at the time Henry VI died. And, more obviously, Henry VII.
In conclusion: despite the Earldoms of Warwick and Salisbury having been granted to the son-in-law of the last holder, they become new creations because they were not succeeded nor abeyant by his daughters; the two Baronies Montacute became abeyant, never used again, but with the attainder that was put upon the Poles and later lifted, the titles were out of claim, and then back again, as they remain today.
The doubt, or certainty: was Margaret Countess of Salisbury as a "new new" title or the successor of her father? Since his father house was forfeit and her brother (who might have been Earl of Warwick just by courtesy, as it became use then) did not use the title of Earl of Salisbury and this title could not fall into abeyance nor be succeeded by a woman, then we conclude that it was a new title, like the 1st Marchioness of Pembroke.

Konakonian (talk) 16:58, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Requested move - Chihuahua (state)

You once were involved into an article naming discussion of Chihuahua State. There is now a new move request you might be interested in: Talk:Chihuahua#Requested move - Chihuahua (state) TopoChecker (talk) 00:26, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Corrections

If they were never Plantagenet, then you should correct and move the articles on George Plantagenet, 1st Duke of Clarence and his issue. If he and his son were surnamed Plantagenet, then you should readd it to Margaret Pole. Apparently, according to your edits on article Earl of Salisbury, he was the first of his third creation. Since the titles were forfeit, then his daughter was the first of her creation. What was her surname, though? "of Clarence", like the "of Lancaster" and the "of York"? Konakonian (talk) 18:36, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

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ANI notice

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at WP:ANI regarding a unilateral move of a controversial title. The thread is PMAnderson_-_another_controversial.2Fdisruptive_page_move:_Juan_Carlos_I.The discussion is about the topic Juan Carlos I of Spain. Thank you. —Born2cycle (talk) 05:52, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Max Mosley

Hi. There has been an argument over the article on Max Mosley, son of the 6th Baronet Mosley, over something so simple as whether if we should include the name of his parents in law, or father in law, and information on his own children. They even claim he's not nobility. It's a false question, but some people, from outside lineages' issues, insists in not adding them. The discussion was brought up by User:4u1e on User talk:Konakonian, Talk:Max Mosley and Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Biography. I'd thank you that you'd join with your good judgement. Konakonian (talk) at 195.245.149.70 (talk) 17:33, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Plantagenet is an anachronism

If it is so, as you claimed, then perhaps you should clear this out: George Plantagenet, 1st Duke of Clarence and other York relatives appear with the surname Plantagenet. Were they after all the only ones who used it? Also, his daughter Margaret Pole, Countess of Salisbury's article had (née Plantagenet) added by me and it was removed by you. Were they all Plantagenet or no one was? If the father and brother were, then so was she. If she wasn't, then neither were they. Konakonian (talk) at 195.245.149.70 (talk) 18:22, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

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Archiving

I came here to ask a question about the NOR policy, but had difficulty getting your talk page to load, so I've archived nearly 600 kilobytes (2008–2010). I placed it all in Archive 9, so you can divide it up as you choose—or ask for the archive to be deleted. You're under no obligation to keep cut-and-paste archives, but as you'd started, I assumed you'd want to continue. Cheers, SlimVirgin 22:52, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Disruption

I've seen several AN or AN/I threads about you recently, Pma, regarding disruptive editing. If you continue to disrupt the policies and guidelines, I'm going to consider adding to those threads, or opening a user RfC. Please stop reverting, stop adding tags, and discuss issues on the talk pages when people object to your changes. SlimVirgin 03:00, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Another effort by a POV-pushing editor to amke a content dispute into a conduct dispute; the mark of terminal bad faith. In fact, I have not reverted; I have consistently offered novel text, when supported on the substance. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 03:04, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
Except of course for those notifications you are required to make. Your factfree endeavour to make a content dispute into a conduct dispute - while conducting a revert-war - is evidence of terminal bad faith. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 03:07, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
I've posted your response here to keep the discussion in one place in case we need to refer back to it, as an attempt to resolve the dispute. You've been reverting at that page since January 20, including reverting the tags you add. Please make yourself familiar with WP:3RR, which makes clear that reverting can involve different text each time.
The bottom line is that it's not for you to decide that long-standing policy is disputed. It's a widely accepted policy, and the need to rely on secondary sources is also widely accepted. Please start a wiki-wide RfC if you want to change it. But above all I'm asking that you stop the general disruption around the project, as discussed many times recently on various pages. SlimVirgin 03:12, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
I have no idea what specific incident you two are talking about, but I have to say the tone is all too familiar. To describe the root problem as succinctly as I could, it is that PMA sees himself all too often as The Decider. I suggest most everyone would agree that PMA should follow this advice: If there is any kind of conflict (or even potential conflict), continue with discussion on the relevant talk page, but do not take action with respect to editing the guideline, the article, or moving anything. Not paying heed to the meaning of these highlighted words is what turns PMA's content disputes into conduct disputes, every time. --Born2cycle (talk) 03:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
Please stay off my talk page. Your recent post is a claim of ownership; more editors at the moment have disagreed with the poor phrasing you defend than have agreed with it - and nobody has defended the policy it would (taken literally) support. This is a dispute; and removing the tag which indicates it will be suppressio veri - as well as persistent revert-warring. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 03:18, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
As you've asked me not to post here again, this will be my last post about this. Please open a RfC if you want to change a core content policy in a way that others regard as substantive. Don't revert when there are objections, don't tag, don't insult people, just keep on discussing and asking for fresh eyes. But my point is not about that page alone. My point is that this is your modus operandi on all pages—articles, policies, and guidelines—and it seems to be causing increasing problems.
Please see the recent threads about it on AN/I: January 2011; December 2010; December 2010 again; December 2001 for a third time; September 2010; September 2010 again; September 2010 for a third time; July 2010; July 2010 again. That's just a quick glance, so I may have missed some, and it doesn't include multiple 3RR reports.
I'm asking you please to reconsider your approach, and above all not to export it to the core content policies, which a lot of people rely on, and which therefore have to be stable. SlimVirgin 03:40, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

hyphens

I see you have a disruptive editing warning, but you know what? You're one of the first sane people to show up in that hellpit of absurdity in quite a while, and with cogent points; maybe it's because you make cogent points you get people accusing you of being "disruptive", just as I have been derided for allegedly "bogus claims" - things that are not claims, but are facts based in sources. Misplaced Pages is increasingly populated by asinine fools, my patience is wearing out....I may just put myself on ANI to explain my anger tonight; no doubt there'll be a formal complaint, but my response is I'm t he one who has a grievance - against fools, obstructionists, and downright contrarian assholes intent on defending the indefensible by any means necessary. I'm choked at what else my wiki-energy could be spent on than picking up broken things and trying to find enough people to help me get them fixed; instead i find people who insist that they're not broken and don't need fixing, and I'm in the wrong for saying they are....what a waste of fucking time; have a look at the Ckatz item on the bottom of my talkpage, where I talk about all the topics/issues that I keep on my watchlist and watch over (not "OWN", but guard from spin trolls etc) and the things I could be contributing to Misplaced Pages. Instead of having to get proper spelling re-introduced because it was changed by some stupid fool who doesn't know about the subjects affected, nor cares...they only care about their precious vision of typography...all style, not substance....I'd rather be working on content than trying to get format fixed all the time...and extremely aggravated that my local variety of English is being told its' wrong by people on another continent, "deciding what's best for teh colonies", apparently.....Skookum1 (talk) 08:03, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

File:Verre de whisky.jpg

Deb (talk) has bought you a whisky! Sharing a whisky is a great way to bond with other editors after a day of hard work. Spread the WikiLove by buying someone else a whisky, whether it be someone with whom you have collaborated or had disagreements. Enjoy!

Spread the good cheer and camaraderie by adding {{subst:User:HJ Mitchell/WikiScotch}} to their talk page with a friendly message. Message received at 12:59, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

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Whiskey

Thanks. I rarely drink, but very occasionally a malt whiskey without ice or water is called for. Tony (talk) 07:42, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

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Nomination for deletion of Template:See main2

Template:See main2 has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. -DePiep (talk) 16:37, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

eight=a fourth of a quarter

After another editor accused you of baing a mathematician, I checked out your userpage on MOS. Is a quarter of a fourth eight? PPdd (talk) 04:44, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

3RR warning - I'll be daring by templating a regular ;-)

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style. Users who edit disruptively or refuse to collaborate with others may be blocked if they continue.

In particular, the three-revert rule states that:

  1. Making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period is almost always grounds for an immediate block.
  2. Editors violating the rule will usually be blocked for 24 hours for a first incident.
  3. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes. Work towards wording, and content that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If edit warring continues, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. --Ohconfucius 06:06, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Kaveh Farrokh

Hi, There is a BLP issue and an RFC in here about Kaveh Farrokh. Regards, *** in fact *** ( contact ) 07:32, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Volume LVIX, January 2011

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could you enlighten me

I just saw the phrase "stable version" in the edit summary of a page I watch. When I looked up Misplaced Pages:Stable versions to see what this meant, the tag at the top left me with only confusion. I've sworn off discussion on MOS, guideline, or policy pages because I have no hope of keeping a civil tongue with children who are neither children nor civil (or rather, they confuse communicating in a robotic manner with civility, which surely has a human component). Could you perhaps spare a moment to tell me where I might find out what is meant by "stable version"? Cynwolfe (talk) 22:34, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

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Latimer/Latymer

You changed the spelling Latymer to Latimer in the titles of John Nevill, 3rd Baron Latimer and John Nevill, 4th Baron Latimer. This is incorrect: Baron Latymer is conventionally spelled with a y, to distinguish it from the separate, older Baron Latimer (although the titles are held by different branches of the same family). BartBassist (talk) 17:26, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

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About some of your "reverts"

Hi Pmanderson. On some pages that I have edited regularly I see you reverting. I have not seen you using talk page to explain your concern. Would you let me know why you did:

  • this 1 or this 1.1. Please see "why I think the revert was incorrect".
  • this one. Please see this. Also you write "restore sourced (and well-known) assertions". Did you read the source? Nothing that I removed are sourced and the sentence that is sourced is "manipulated". Look at this: the original words of the source is "Even though there are later traditions which place him in Azerbaijan and Media, it is more reasonable to locate Zoroaster somewhere in eastern Iran along with the rest of the Avesta. Further, the two Avestan dialects belong linguistically to eastern Iran." Now look what the user has added "Even though there are later traditions which place him in Azerbaijan and Media, it is more reasonable to locate Zoroaster somewhere in eastern Iran along with the rest of the Avesta. Further, the two Avestan dialects belong linguistically to eastern Iran ." Don't you think your revert was unjustified? Also did you see the source? Did you see this #Raŋhā = Rasā in Vedic geography, at times mentioned together with Kubhā (Kabul) and Krumu (Kurram), a river situated in a mountainous area, probably connected with the Indus, not with the Jaxartes or with the Volga". This is really OR ONLY. Not in the source, not sourced...
  • and this one ...

I guess your reverts are unjustified and you should at least use the talk page to explain why you did all these sudden reverts on pages you have not previously edited (I hope I am not mistaken or otherwise sorry for that). In any case if you are going to engage in editing please let us use talk pages more often. Cheers. Xashaiar (talk) 18:49, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Re: Please stop that

So if there is an article that has, consistently, what you call consolidated individual notes, you come along and correct some punctuation in the article, then another editor adds a requested citation, identical to the two surrounding ones but not "consolidated", you have now imperiously forbidden me to fix that? Come on.  --Lambiam 06:08, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

WP:UE Discussions

If you're still into WP:UE there are some issues on these talk pages: and . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.103.183.207 (talk) 19:46, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

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3RR

I have reported you for edit warring at Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Pmanderson_reported_by_User:Kwamikagami_.28Result:_.29. — kwami (talk) 03:10, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

ANI

Hello, hope you are well. Your name has just cropped up at ANI. ;-) --Ohconfucius 03:18, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Is there a problem?

I don't think we've ever run into each other on WP, that I can remember. I'm not sure if I've done anything to annoy you. I'm confused why you decided to suddenly (and in a rather brusque manner) oppose all of the bot requests that I have open at the moment. Is there a problem of which I am unaware, or is this your normal behavior? —SW—  03:58, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

You are demanding a bot which will act against clear policy;however, it is required that bots perform only non-controversial edits. You (as required) started a discussion on this subject at Misplaced Pages:Village_pump_(proposals)#Bot_to_reduce_duplicate_references; when several people objected to your proposal, you responded None of these are valid reasons, in my opinion, and I believe I have refuted them all.
That's your opinion, on which you have no consensus. It's not the opinion of the people who disagree with you, none of who have retracted, and some of whom have actively continued to object. You should not be running a bot to do controversial things - and the use of bots to enforce stylistic preferences should be re-examined severely. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:44, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
To be clear, there are two people who have opposed, and one of them is you. And, I have refuted all of the opposition points. I have shown them to be logically invalid. Whether or not that causes the opposer to retract is immaterial. Also, the fact that this particular case is "controversial" is just your opinion, and it has only become controversial because of your disruptive influence on it. How can it be disruptive if Help:Footnotes#Multiple_citations_of_the_same_reference_or_footnote instructs us to do exactly what the bot would be doing, and it doesn't mention that it is optional or open to stylistic interpretation. —SW—  17:03, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
To be perfectly clear, this is two deliberate falsehoods.
  • CBM, myself, and Gimmetoo have all opposed the proposal. It is difficult to believe that anybody could read the transcript without noticing both of them, who have been much more voluminous than myself. Uzma Gamal has made definite proposals for restriction, and has also been dismissed.
  • As Snottywang has just finished admitting, the footnote style he prefers is neither recommended nor required; the link he quotes is instructions on how to do it, if you want to. (There are certainly articles on which it is desirable to do it; there are also articles on which it isn't.) He regards the giant step from this permission to imposing it everywhere as a mere "bureaucratic obstacle".
Please keep this editor off my talkpage while I am unable to do anything about it myself. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:21, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Blocked for edit warring

You know the drill by now, so I'm not going to give you the spiel. I fully expect you to appeal it, so I only ask that any admin reviewing this please see my rationale here. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 04:08, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Agree with this block. Having just interacted for the first time with Pmanderson a few days ago (with unsatisfactory results), and having just taken a look at his block log, it's clear that corrections to his behavior are required before he will become a productive editor. I would also second Heimstern's request that an admin considering an early unblock take a comprehensive look at the 3RR situation as well as Pmanderson's recent contributions. —SW—  04:13, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
PMA has generally been a productive user since early 2005, but for whatever reason has become increasingly crabby and belligerent about what are, to most readers, minor stylistic issues, fighting a somewhat Quixotic war against the imminent stylistic demise of Misplaced Pages. I think it might be better if he just stayed away from MOS issues for a while.  --Lambiam 08:13, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
This is his 23rd block since 2006. Something tells me his attitude hasn't just changed recently. —SW—  13:52, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Characteristic carelessness. This counts my unblocks; that they are on the same list does not make them the same thing. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:45, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

For the reason Heimstern gives below, I have stayed off this talk page. However, PMAnderson is correct in stating that the number of blocks has been misstated. I count 14 prior to the current block, not 23; the remainder are indeed unblocks, mostly because he promised to stop edit warring. One of the unblocks was made with the summary "pages not clearly listed as style guidelines", suggesting that the unblocking admin considered that block to be unjustified. — kwami (talk) 00:36, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

To be precise, because I have promised not to engage in some particular dispute; I am willing to disengage from anything at the request of an uninvolved admin at any time - a technique that should be tried more often. I have (elsewhere on this page) offered not to add a hyphen to the article Mexican-American War for a week, if an admin thinks that helpful. (I am surprised that so many as five blocks were not reversed; I think at least one of them expired before I learned about it.) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:50, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Pmanderson (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

Yes, of course I appeal. This is punitive, not preventative; as I said, before the AN3 appeal was filed, and at AN3 (Heimstern links to it), I do not intend to revert again; this block is on the basis of one edit which established a novel text and three restorations against the same revert warrior.

Decline reason:

Considering your prolonged history of edit warring, blocks, and promises not to edit war again, I agree with Heimstern Läufer's statement at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring: we need more than the limited undertakings you have given. In fact, in view of your history, the only thing about this block that seems at all questionable is that it is so short. How many times do you edit war before you are indefinitely blocked? JamesBWatson (talk) 12:59, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

That Kwamikagami chose to revert (and thus he restored what we agree are errors) rather than establish his own new text, convinced me - and convinces me - that he was acting in bad faith; for that discussion, see here. But that discussion should be conducted elsewhere. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:27, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Promising that you aren't going to revert again after making your fourth revert doesn't exempt you from 3RR, nor does it make the resulting block punitive. Especially when you consider the clear pattern of behavior as evidenced by your block log. An early unblock would only encourage you to continue your disruptive behavior. —SW—  16:55, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
The purpose of 3RR blocks, like all blocks, is preventative, not punitive. Therefore, this block was unnecessary to begin with; and doubly unnecessary since I believe, and have stated in good faith, that I made one novel edit and three reversions. (In addition, the article is protected.) I am therefore done, by anybody's reckoning - and the article has changed since then anyway. If an admin wishes to make a condition that I not restore any hyphens to the article in question for a week, I would think it Quixotic, but agree. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:44, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
One would think that after the number of blocks you've had, you'd learn that after the first revert cycle you should just start a discussion and get a consensus. If you had learned your lesson, you wouldn't have even gotten close to 3RR. And especially over something as stupid as hyphens. You're not even edit warring over words or letters anymore, now you're edit warring over a hyphen that is 5 pixels longer than a different type of hyphen. Are you here to actually improve the project, or just to start ridiculous arguments with people? And you can't ask me to stay off your page and then start replying to things I've posted here in the past and expect me to not reply. Doesn't work that way. —SW—  22:17, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Please stay off my talk page. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:30, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

block is unjust

As I understand it, the basis of this one week block is PMA merely coming close to a 3RR violation, but not actually achieving it (due to not being within the 24 hour window). If true, regardless of his history, it's not reasonable to block for this, though maybe a warning is in order. And if PMA puts in writing that he won't revert again, I would believe him, simply based on my experience with him, but if that's not enough, since his reverting despite what he said would certainly be grounds to block him, why not wait and see if that occurs? I have supported long blocks for PMA in the past, but I strongly object to this particular one. It doesn't seem just at all, and I oppose injustice no matter where it is aimed. --Born2cycle (talk) 18:28, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Despite 22 blocks, he still hasn't learned that he shouldn't edit war. What makes you think a warning will work this time? —SW—  18:46, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
This comment is a personal attack, and inaccurate; half of the list he is counting are unblocks. This not only exaggerates my block record but suppresses that I have been routinely unblocked. One reason to unblock me is to permit me to defend myself against this sort of thing. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:02, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, I overlooked the heading, which states the reason is for "edit warring", and went solely by the referenced rationale, which doesn't mention edit warring, only 3RR.

For edit warring I agree the block is appropriate, and would even add that just a week is insufficient, given that repeated week-long blocks in the past have clearly not been sufficient to inhibit PMA from engaging in edit-warring again, repeatedly. --Born2cycle (talk) 18:56, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Edit warring with a single editor, who has not been blocked? I kept (I believe) exactly within the limits of 3RR, and expressed an intention to leave it there before my antagonist went to AN3. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:04, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
You'd think someone who has already been blocked for edit warring so many times would be hesitant to take situations right to the limits of 3RR. Note that WP:3RR also says: "Any appearance of gaming the system by reverting a fourth time just outside the 24-hour slot is likely to be treated as a 3RR violation." —SW—  21:18, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Please stay off my talk page. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:23, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Yes, edit warring with a single editor who has not been blocked. It only takes two to edit war, and, because of his history, he was warned, while you, because of yours, were blocked. Asking people to stop posting on your page once they clearly explain where you've gone astray probably does not help improve your reputation. --Born2cycle (talk) 21:31, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
As you can see, I'm not asking you to stop - merely the overbearing editor who wants a bot to do something which is flamingly controversial, and who takes his revenge for my opposition by falsifying my block record. We need not enter your long history of quarrelling with me - yet. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:37, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Yet another obvious example of edit warring, user blindly reverts my edits, ignoring my contributions without so much as a comment. I was tempted to file an ANI notice until I found that he was already blocked. These types of users need harsh punishments for their obvious lack of cooperation, when it has been proven time and time again. Let it stand and give them time to think about their actions. ΔT 22:39, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Please come to IRC.
By the looks of your question, I think it would be best to have you log on to IRC. IRC stands for "Internet Relay Chat", which allows for real-time text-based communication with other users. This way, in addition to the help I can provide, I can get others on #wikipedia-en-help to help you, as well. Here is a web based IRC client, so you don't have to download anything to talk to us! We are waiting for you.

Please get User:Snottywong (posting as an underline) and his ally Delta off my talk page. It would be nice if you would then return to consider the unblock request, but that's less important to me right now. As Deacon says (my compliments) "I really dislike the apparent bullying here. PMAnderson is entitled to his opinions without those whose proposals he opposes jumping on to his talk page and kicking him while he's down." Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:47, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Your actions and your record speak for themselves, I doubt there's much I could do to influence the admin who will eventually handle your unblock request. In any case, this is my last post on your page for the moment, unless you decide to reengage with me in the future. Enjoy your week. —SW—  23:03, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
I obviously disagree with Pmanderson on the merits of the block, but I fully agree with his request that Snottywong stay off this page. It amounts to kicking him when he's down, which is unacceptable, and I'm prepared to enforce this as needed. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 23:20, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Much obliged. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:23, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
While I'm here, I should mention that I'm going to be away from the computer today, so the community should take charge as it comes to both dealing with people kicking Pmanderson and (probably more importantly) making any decisions on this block. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 23:39, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Please come to IRC.
By the looks of your question, I think it would be best to have you log on to IRC. IRC stands for "Internet Relay Chat", which allows for real-time text-based communication with other users. This way, in addition to the help I can provide, I can get others on #wikipedia-en-help to help you, as well. Here is a web based IRC client, so you don't have to download anything to talk to us! We are waiting for you.

While I'm gone, I would appreciate a decision on the unblock above. As several people have said at AN3, the 3RR is shaky; even Heimstern considered no blocks, or two. I have already said I have no intention of continuing the edit war (and have offered concrete assurances I will not) - and I cannot in any case, since the article is protected. Is this protective? If so, what is it protecting? (And if there is an answer to that question, what further assurances will be necessary.) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 03:40, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Hello, Pmanderson. I invite you to join us in the IRC help channel (#wikipedia-en-help ). We are a group of editors standing by, wanting to help anyone who needs it. Since IRC is real-time communication between editors, we will be able to resolve the situation far more quickly than through talk page communication. We're waiting to help you! ~ Matthewrbowker 03:55, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
Well, I've tried that. Unfortunately, I will be unable to take advantage of the channel for about twelve hours; please let me know. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 14:58, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
I'm sorry, apparently you came during the time that I was hanging lights for my school's spring production. I invite you to try again, and this time ask for me specifically. My nick is matthewrbowker. If you type it into the channel, my computer pings me. I'd be more than willing to talk. Please remember that IRC is live chat, so there may be other conversations going on at the same time. Pinging me is the best way to get my attention. ~ Matthewrbowker 04:36, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Renewed appeal

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Pmanderson (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

In looking into this, I see there is a quarrel at Coandă-1910. Can I please go offer a constructive suggestion there, and return to editing content elsewhere? I pushed 3RR, and should not have done so; but I had resolved (see link above) not to continue with the matter before it was brought to AN3. If the unblocking admin wants, I will promise (and I have always kept such promises) not to add hyphens to Mexican-American War for a week, the issue on which the edit war was founded.

Decline reason:

You already have an appeal underway. You also do not set the conditions of unblock - indeed, stopping "for a week" is not useful; stopping completely might be beneficial. Please allow for full discussion and decision on your original unblock request - there is no "parole" in ordetr to go comment elsewhere (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 11:44, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

You could of disscused it on the talk page. And also not adding them for 1 week? Maybe that it should be when there is consensus that you put the hyphens. ~~Awsome EBE123 Contribs 19:14, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
See Talk:Mexican-American War; little else has been discussed for the past two weeks - and there has already been consensus (as judged by a neutral admin) what the article should be called; a dissident handful is being disruptive. I have little intention of meddling further with the text at all; I want to go do other things, and thus demonstrate my good faith; but am reluctant to make open-ended promises. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:41, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
Please note that the first unblock request above has been ignored, by everybody including BWilkins - which was why I made a second. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 01:27, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "Topic ban proposal concerning the lame "Mexican-American War" hyphen/en-dash dispute".Thank you.  Sandstein  20:27, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

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Welcome back

Welcome back. Deb (talk) 08:19, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, garlands of flowers in the streets and all that. Cynwolfe (talk) 14:45, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

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Repeated interruptions on my talk page

Good grief! You have interrupted 4 times to complain about what another editor said about Fowler's guide? How about taking it up with the editor who made the claim, instead of beating me up? Better yet, find an article that needs fixing. Chris the speller  00:05, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

I thought I had made it clear on the WT:MOS page that I do not welcome your advice. Apparently that message was missed. OK, here it is again: I do not welcome your advice. Chris the speller  03:21, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

St Pancras International - naming controversy

Hello, Since you took part in this before, you might like to know that there is a revived proposal under discussion at Talk:St Pancras railway station#Requested move. -- Alarics (talk) 20:19, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

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Demotic speakers

The usage of this term to refer to Greeks is deemed somewhat offensive.Please note that next time it is encountered you will be reported to tha administrators' noticeboard. I would also thank you to limit your response to this page and please stay off my talk page. Thank you and have a nice day.--Anothroskon (talk) 08:03, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

wp:lead

Please stop changing the first sentence of List of German monarchs by introducing ideas that significantly move away from the title of the article. If you don't know what you're doing please read Misplaced Pages:Lead#Opening_paragraph or open a discussion on the talk page. Otherwise this might be seen as vandalism. Than you. Mootros (talk) 08:46, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

hyphen in that book

Check Amazon Reader. It clearly uses an endash, the hyphens it uses are way shorter. --Enric Naval (talk) 03:25, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Re: Talk:Dears

You may want to move your comment to the new move for better visibility. And you may want to elaborate a bit, I am not sure I understand what you meant :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 20:06, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

High Dynamic Range Imaging

A few days ago, you moved Talk:High-dynamic-range imaging to Talk:High dynamic range imaging, but not the corresponding article. The result is that the article is at “H-D-R Imaging”, but the talk page at “HDR Imaging” (without hyphens). I was wondering if there is a rationale behind this discrepancy, or if it was just a mistake? Many thanks. — Richie 18:01, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Looks like an oversight to me, so I've undone the move, in the interest of having the article and talk pages under the same title. I'd suggest a WP:RM discussion to figure out which title is better. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:10, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
Um, don't suppose you could _finish_ that move, instead of leaving it half-done again? --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:16, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
Never mind, fixed the archives myself. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:31, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
Now that was confusing. Thanks for sorting this out, guys :) — Richie 18:21, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

WT:MOS discussion

Would you stop bringing into question the notability of the subject as it concerns what language the reliable sources concerning the subject would normally be found in? It is distracting from the discussion as to whether or not the "KABA.chan" (or any variation of "KABA"/"Kaba" separated from "Chan"/"chan" by a full stop) is allowed. I have found you obfuscate the topic way too often in discussions that I have had with you.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 20:15, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Nope. It is no more confusing that the (counterfactual) claim that there are no sources in English. Since there are, we should follow them. If there were not, we should be justified in asking whether the subject were notable. If there is an AfD, let me know; I expect to vote to Keep. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:20, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
I did not claim that there were no sources in English. I only claimed that there were no reliable sources in English. IMDB and ANN are not reliable and as I explained, but that should not exclude the fact that reliable Japanese language sources exist to support his notability. Either way, it does not help the discussion on how we should the title the article on this individual.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 20:25, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Please retract your accusation against Dicklyon

PMAnderson, at Talk:Mexican-American War, in this edit, you have accused User:Dicklyon of acting in bad faith and of lying. I asked you (at the same place) to retract that accusation, but you refused in belligerent terms. I hope that you will reconsider the matter during the next 24 hours, and retract there and apologise at his talkpage. I am requesting that you do so. Noetica 03:32, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Addendum: To reword grudgingly is not to retract. Please undertake a full reversal of your provocative personal attack against this editor who is attempting good-faith dialogue, and a genuinely conciliatory overture at his talkpage. Noetica 06:35, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

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Re: Mexican-American War

It's not vandalism, so I will not revert myself. Graham87 02:10, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Count of Tyrone

Please do not destroy Count of Tyrone. It may lack inline citations, but references are provided. This looks a lot like a POV crusade, and your appeals in Talk:Count of Tyrone, Talk:Earl of Tyrone, and Talk:Gaelic nobility of Ireland leave me suspicious your sources are more limited than the article's. The main contributor, User:Princeton03, is familiar with the O'Neill family council, and I trust him. Sure it needs a lot of work but I can't just let you throw it all out like that. You're going to need to provide me with a complete citation for The Complete Peerage and much more. DinDraithou (talk) 02:18, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

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Replied (I'd Like To Maybe Revive This Discussion)

Should we do a rfc?Curb Chain (talk) 11:42, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Dives, not

Do you think anyone would object if I removed the Dives from Marcus Licinius Crassus Dives (consul 30 BC)? I've not investigated this, but it's my impression that this is incorrect, based on a notion that the name would've been automatically handed down from his grandfather, Marcus Crassus the so-called triumvir who most likely didn't go by Dives himself. There's been a note on the talk page pointing this out for three years. Cynwolfe (talk) 02:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm unbecomingly timid about anything I do on WP these days. Cynwolfe (talk) 12:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
Ah, yes, discussion requires vast amounts of time and patience, which I imagine might be better spent generating content. This is classic, and communicates more efficiently. I have a couple of articles a few editors have suggested nominating for GA status, but I don't have the emotional stamina to face, and prefer to have them hover under the radar of, the Inquisition. Cynwolfe (talk) 15:48, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

"ce"

The shorthand "ce" is generally used for uncontroversial copy edits; your use of it to hide a controversial change of style that you know is hotly contested seems sneaky and dishonest. Dicklyon (talk) 19:12, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Anderson, do you recall what happened at the last AN3 report? Start a RfC or an arbitration or whatever you want. --Enric Naval (talk) 17:40, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
RfC is a good idea. Arbitration is for user misbehavior problems; might be a good idea, too. What's an AN3? Dicklyon (talk) 17:43, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXI, March 2011

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edit warring

Please stop edit warring at Mexican-American War. Calling following the MOS "vandalism" is especially ridiculous, and makes you look like a troll. I don't know if you're trying to provoke a fight, but regardless your behaviour is unacceptable. — kwami (talk) 20:41, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

The claim that this follows the MOS is a falsehood employed by four disruptive editors to conceal their destructive campaign. Please stay off my talk page, unless you have something substantive to say. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:46, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
Those who attempt to follow the MOS, which represents some best-practices in typography among other things, are acting in good faith for the good of the project. If you keep calling us liers and vandals, you are simply violating WP:NPA instead of addressing the real issues. Dicklyon (talk) 01:51, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

embattled?

Hiya PMA,

I remember having a couple of generally positive interactions with you in the past, but having just now happened upon some recent talk page comments I have to wonder: "what the hell is going on?" Are you feeling embattled for some reason, or something? I just... you're gonna get blocked soon, guy. Maybe we disagree on things, maybe we agree, whatever... just, don't get blocked for creating inter-personal issues.
— V = IR (Talk • Contribs) 00:03, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

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Incident

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hyphen/dash position question

Hey. Would you favor using hyphens consistently for all purposes in WP article content as well titles and URL, and never using any kind of dashes? Seems to me that would be the simple, clear, consistent and credible solution. Any deviation from that is bound to lead to complexity and inconsistency. What do you think? --Born2cycle (talk) 22:35, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

  • This hyphen-only convention could also be easily enforced by a bot. Even if there is some truly special case where we really need to use a dash, like an article about dashes, the bot could have some built-in special cases to allow. There can't be very many of those. --Born2cycle (talk) 00:28, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

MOS

I have refactored your comment to remove the rather pointed comment directed at me. I am trying to keep it impersonal. please do likewise. Thank you for your cooperation. --Ohconfucius 03:29, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Whack!

You've been whacked with a wet trout.

Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know that you did something silly.
Please in the future be more sensitive to those who feel that your comments were abusive or racist. Even if you didn't intend it so, you need to spend fair effort to understand what their concern was and address it.
You have been repeatedly warned about civility issues in the past. Please spend more effort on this area going forwards.
Thank you. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 18:20, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Bringing about change

Next time you're accused of being dishonest or worse for trying to bring about change at the article level instead of first establishing consensus to change MOS or a guideline or whatever, feel free to refer to this: User:Born2cycle/FAQ#Change_guideline_first. --Born2cycle (talk) 17:27, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

  • Do you have the right thread? Honesty isn't the issue here. --Ohconfucius 01:34, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
    • Sorry - he was accused of dishonesty regarding issues that had to do with MOS, so, given the section heading, I thought it was fine, but I just created a new section. Feel free to delete this comment now that this is straightened out. Sorry about the confusion. --Born2cycle (talk) 04:20, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
      • No problem; you said dishonesty or worse, and racism may well be worse than dishonesty. This case may be (like the underlying cause of dispute) mere lack of fluency. But when fraudulent accusations of racism are regarded as equally bad, we may yet approach Utopia; in the meantime, some people will play Chicken Little, ignoring that this actively harms those who are actually under a falling sky. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 04:34, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
  • You may be interested to participate in a thread about your abovementioned actions at WP:ANI. --Ohconfucius 05:00, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Talk:MOS post

Looks like you forgot to sign? Gerardw (talk) 15:30, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Arb request

"Tony called the closing admin corrupt" -- could you rephrase that so that it clearly refers to the admin of the first closing? I was the admin for the second movereq, and didn't get any insults thrown my way.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:57, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

RfA

Just wanted to make sure that you see: WT:MOS#RfC: simple resolution to disagreements over dashes.
— V = IR (Talk • Contribs) 16:37, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

logarithm

You'll probably have noticed, but since the nomination is at a kind of stand-still now: I have addressed your historical comments at Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Logarithm/archive1. I'd appreciate your feedback on this. Thank you, Jakob.scholbach (talk) 17:29, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Birds of a Feather

Look like you and I may be of like minds on the hyphen thing. Is this stuff unreal, or what? Surreal? Anyway, my area of expertise is cancer, and there are now 14 quadrillion (IMO) bogus horizontal lines of various types in perhaps 12 billion articles. WTH is going to happen with those? Another thing that blows my mind is the massive cumulative record of misconduct of one of those editors you mentioned, yet NOTHING has ever been done to this person. What do you think? Personally, these fait accompli situations - wherein one guy changes THOUSANDS of things over a few days, and then refuses to fix them, just ENRAGES me TO THE CORE! :-O

Best regards: Cliff L. Knickerbocker, MS (talk) 03:29, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

PMA, he's talking about Kwami putting hyphens into cancers like basal-cell carcinoma, and such. For some reasons, the medical types don't use the same English as some other fields do. I agree that you guys should flock together. Dicklyon (talk) 03:55, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

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Personalizing things too much?

Don't you think comments like this border on violating WP:NPA? Is there some reason you think that making the argument about me gives you a leg up? Dicklyon (talk) 04:21, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue LXII, April 2011

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Request for comment

This message is being sent to you because you have previously edited the Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions (use English) page. There is currently a discussion that may result in a significant change to Misplaced Pages policy. Specifically, a consensus is being sought on if the policies of WP:UCN and WP:EN continues to be working policies for naming biographical articles, or if such policies have been replaced by a new status quo. This discussion is on-going at Misplaced Pages talk:Naming conventions (use English), and your comments would be appreciated. Dolovis (talk) 17:11, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

edit warring on a naming guideline page again

Again? Really?

  • (reasonable bold assumption that there is no objection - no problem)
  • (standard WP:BRD (yes, lack of consensus support is a very weak reason to revert, but it is an indication of objection, and sufficient cause to move on to discussion on the talk page to seek further explication)
  • (Reverting the revert is unacceptable, especially for someone who is supposed to be trying to demonstrate good faith efforts to avoid conflicts, especially on naming guideline and policy pages.)

Is it really that difficult to follow WP:BRD? --Born2cycle (talk) 20:40, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

No, lack of consent is no reason to revert. "according to consensus" and "violates consensus" are not valid rationales for accepting or rejecting proposals or actions. While past "extensive discussions" can guide editors on what influenced a past consensus, editors need to re-examine each proposal on its own merits, and determine afresh whether consensus either has or has not changed. That's policy. Now, if either of you cares to discuss substance, that would be welcome. If not, expect to explain yourself to ANI. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:47, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
Policies and guidelines reflect established consensus, and their stability and consistency are important to the community. As a result, Misplaced Pages has a higher standard of participation and consensus for changes to policy than on other kinds of pages. Substantive changes should be proposed on the talk page first, and sufficient time should be allowed for thorough discussion before being implemented. Minor changes may be edited in, but are subject to a higher level of scrutiny. The community is more likely to accept edits to policy if they are made slowly and conservatively, with active efforts to seek out input and agreement from others.

Once you are reverted for a policy or guideline page change, for any reason, you need to discuss, especially if you have a history of getting involved in contentious edit wars. --Born2cycle (talk) 21:06, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you . I still recommend starting a discussion section about this on the talk page. --Born2cycle (talk) 21:20, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Notification of WP:AN/EW report

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Nomination of Federated state (disambiguation) for deletion

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Bad faith accusations of vandalism in subject lines

I noticed you tagged your subject lines with bad faith and inaccurate accusations of vandalism. What do you have to say about this?Rememberway (talk) 21:07, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Note: I raised your subject lines at WP:ANI; I want them removed.Rememberway (talk) 21:24, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

By Jove

Could you spare a moment to look at this extraordinary bit of business? I'm taking a wiki-break and only stopped by today to check in on some things, so I'm short on time and have never undone a move before. Cynwolfe (talk) 21:49, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

That was quick! and most welcome (I can't even do a move, let alone undo one). Hoping you're well. Haploidavey (talk) 22:04, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
That was so thoughtful of you. I've probably been told before, and promptly forgotten; I'll put the message where it can't be archived. Haploidavey (talk) 22:23, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Skåne Regional Council

I responded to your oppose at the talk page. --Reckless182 (talk) 21:09, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Help with some Misplaced Pages-related research?

Hi Pmanderson. My name is Sanjay, and I'm a 1st-year PhD student working on a project aimed at improving the quality of scientific articles on Misplaced Pages by providing easier access to relevant published refereed articles. I found you on the list of Wikipedians with access to Web of Science and JSTOR, so I figured you must frequently utilize such articles in your work on Misplaced Pages. If you are interested in lending your expertise and advice to this research effort, I have posted a set of questions on my talk page - I would greatly appreciate your taking the time to answer any or all of them. The answers will help inform the design of a tool which I believe will benefit the Misplaced Pages community. Thanks! Sanjaykairam (talk) 18:31, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue LXIII, May 2011

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Question

May I ask why you find it acceptable to voice an opinion about the guideline and not only find it OK to immediately act on it without even giving other the courtesy of responding first, but insist on it as if it were a result of a consensus of some sort? You are well aware that an RfC is currently underway, and most of that RfC's material does not even concern the items you perceive as problematic. I must ask you to please follow the proper discussion procedures. Thank you.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); June 10, 2011; 16:14 (UTC)

I've responded there as well. All in all, you don't have the prerogative to decide what violates our core policy and what doesn't; that the community's job. I've seen you usurp the right to make an ultimate decision on more than one occasion, and that really becomes worrisome. Best,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); June 10, 2011; 16:30 (UTC)
WP:RUS was up for discussion for over a month in 2007 and had universal support before being promoted to a guideline. You can't get any more "official" than that. I have not added a single word that altered the spirit of the guideline ever since, hence there can't possibly be any parts which "only I support". What I am doing is reverting to the version that has been supported as a result of a formal proposal so those who want to participate in the RfC would have the current version to work with. You, for some reason I don't understand, seem to think that I added chunks between 2007 and now. This is not the case, and this is just outrageous. Are you going to mark all guidelines which you don't like as "essays" now? If you are having a hard day, please take a break to calm down, but if this your genuine attitude, then I think a request for comment for your conduct is in order.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); June 10, 2011; 16:56 (UTC)
It is true that no local consensus can make guidance against policy acceptable. It is, however, not your place to decide whether it is the case. There are only two ways in which the incompatibility of a lower level guideline with a higher-level policy can be determined—the community discussion and the ArbComm decision. As a member of the Misplaced Pages community, you have the same right as anyone else to identify the problems and fix them in the articles, being mindful to the fact that if your identification is challenged, you will need to initiate a discussion nevertheless. You also have the same rights as anyone else to pinpoint the incompatibilities between the individual policies and guidelines. What you do not have a right to do with the guidelines is to unilaterally act on your own judgement—especially not when the discussion between other members of the community is ongoing. That is neither right nor civil. With that in mind, please revert your changes to the pages in question and kindly let others discuss the issue in a calm environment.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); June 13, 2011; 12:57 (UTC)
On the contrary, it is everybody's business. Insisting that only ArbCom or a "community decision", which you will do your best to stalemate, can remove something blatantly contrary to policy, is a recipe for idefinite delay. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:48, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Chill..

I'm not sure why you're in such a big rush to deal with this WP:RUS thing.. I think Ezhiki is acting in good faith here. I also think we should let the discussion run its course, rather than fanning flames by making changes before the discussion is over. Mlm42 (talk) 16:58, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Maybe you should have a look at the recent discussion Ezkihi and I have been having on my talk page.. just when I thought we were getting somewhere.. Mlm42 (talk) 22:39, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
Sigh. He knows about Russian and English; he knows very little about Greek and English; he doesn't even know the name of Wade-Giles, the major competing system for Chinese. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:44, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Villa Pump (proposals)

Hi, there has been a modification to a proposal which you have previously discussed. The discussion can be found here. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Roman Iron Age

I've posted a question at the Classical Greece and Rome project page that could benefit from your expertise. Cynwolfe (talk) 01:31, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

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Julian - Caesar

http://forumancientcoins.com/Articles/Julian_II.htm

S. Tougher, "The Propaganda of Power: The Role of Panegyric in Late Antiquity", page 122

Sources which relate the position to heir-apparent. I do think this issue needs clarifying one way or the other (and the conclusion should be included in the article) as, even as just our debate highlights, it is an important distinction which has significant bearing upon an understanding of Julian's rise to power. Reichsfürst (talk) 01:19, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Plus, I think it is quite clear that whether the title Caesar was a reference to his status as co-emperor or heir-apparent, that Constantius did intend for him to inherit after the 'death' of Constantius Gallus. Reichsfürst (talk) 01:24, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Alright I'm willing to accept that the term would be overly controversial but some clarification for the term Caesar should be given as the link is not at all helpful, I'm willing to leave the wording to you. Reichsfürst (talk) 01:31, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

ANI notice concerning you

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is User:Pmanderson's behavior. Thank you.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); June 15, 2011; 19:12 (UTC)

Edit war

You might not realize it but this edit of yours was jumping squarely in the middle of an active edit war, choosing a side. This makes you a partisan to the edit war. I strongly recommend you revert your edit and extract yourself from this edit war. Toddst1 (talk) 00:30, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Listen to Myrrha please

Please listen and support/oppose avec comments!

TCO (talk) 02:13, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 20 June 2011

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Please consider refactoring your comments

Several of your recent comments at Misplaced Pages talk:Naming conventions (use English) struck me as uncivil and bad faithed. I have always respected you in the past, but your claims that Slavic editors are biased, as "proven by ArbCom", are very disturbing. I am asking you in a friendly manner to rewrite them or strike them out. Please "discuss edits, not editors". Thank you,--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 02:32, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

The way I read your arguments is that you imply that those (in particlar, Slavic) editors who disagree with you on that page are biased, and you further poison the well by bringing up an unrelated ArbCom case. This is very inconstructive, and very much in the spirit prohibited by WP:NPA. Please reconsider your arguments, I'd hate to see the matters between us, so civil and respectful for many years, escalate further. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 03:29, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Greek love

Hello Pmanderson. Thank you for your interest in the Greek love article. I noticed you reverted my edits with the edit summary, "Restore version by Cynw`olfe. If this continues, dispute resolution may be necessary." I do not see a reason for dispute resolution unless it was your intention to threaten me or create an atmosphere of intimidation. If your intention is an edit war you should know I am not engaging in it now nor will I be doing so in the future. I urge you to seek a second opinion, but I do have the right to edit on a page I have been contributing to for years. While I do not share the belief that editors need to summarize everything on the talk page before they edit, I have been doing so for a reason...it's called cooperation. Someone suggested it several times and I am cooperating. No editor has the right to demand another editor stop editing or contributing to any article. It goes against the very nature and spirit of Misplaced Pages. If you would like to actually discuss what displeases you so much in a civil manner I would welcome the addition to consensus.--Amadscientist (talk) 03:12, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 June 2011

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June 2011

stop

Dear PManderson, the Manual of Style was unprotected in good faith earlier today by arbitrator Casliber, in which his stated hope was that edit-warring "will not recur". The page history shows that you leapt in to make five edits in the hours after this—some of them contentious and without warning or discussion on the talk page—with at least one uncivil edit-summary accusing another editor of "a deliberate falsehood".

Please be aware that you are approaching the circumstances in which a topic-ban is required for the protection of the project, given that the page has been locked on three occasions since January because of circumstances in which you have acted provocatively. Tony (talk) 09:41, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

You might want to tone it down

PMA, you probably know that I agree with you that the MoS should be less about personal opinion than it currently is, but you're starting to sound like you're the crazy one. The level of fervor that I pick up from your contributions is what I'd expect from Headbomb when he gets going, not from someone reasonable.

You might be right, but people like Tony haven't really done anything, and Noetica hasn't done anything except be a big fat dramamonger. That's really not cause for banning anyone.

It's unlikely enough that the MoS majority is going to take someone seriously if that person is telling them that their own pet peeves don't count as reliable sources. It's even less likely if that person also comes off as raving. Darkfrog24 (talk) 14:01, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

  • Seriously. I agree with Darkfrog24 here, PMA. The 37,000-foot view I’m seeing here is of others collegially trying to work in a collaborative writing environment in the library and you’re walking around with a boom-box objecting to something at every turn. Now you might not like that message, but try not jumping down my throat with a bunch of blue-linked righteous indignation about “AGF” and “civility” and “inclusivity”. Just take to heart that it appears that your protracted persistence seems to have numbed the senses of others to such an extent that they just accept your disruption as the price of participating on Misplaced Pages, as if the rule-set as of late is…
  1. Is it right?
  2. Is it sound technical writing practices?
  3. Is it compliant with Misplaced Pages’s five pillars?
  4. Is there a general consensus?
  5. Will PMA throw a hissy fit and start leaving edit summaries in Latin? (cogito maximus impressum rif-raferus)
It would behove you to cool your jets some for a while; they’re making that *tink* - *tink* - *tink* sound of overheated metal right now. Greg L (talk) 16:08, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

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NCRUS - DAB populates places

You commented on WP:NCRUS. I made a minimum proposal (resulting in ", Russia" as default when disambiguation is needed, instead of parenthetical disambiguation) at Misplaced Pages talk:Naming conventions (geographic names)/Archives/2011/July#Remove Russia-specific clause and apply general rules. It would simply mean to remove the "Dikson (urban-type settlement)"-rule and would result in Dikson, Russia by applying the general Misplaced Pages rules. Hope we can move forward step by step, bringing WikiProject Russia in line with general WP rules. Bogdan Nagachop (talk) 12:48, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Follow the sources

Greetings! I just saw this section of the MOS, and I was surprised/pleased to see that it resembled a lot of points I've been making on the MOS:TM talk page for a while. Are we maybe at a point where there's some consensus there and a genuine guideline we can point people who espouse the "but the company formats it this way" argument? Croctotheface (talk) 23:05, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 11 July 2011

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Please comment on Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Doctor Who

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Please comment on Talk:Falkland Islands

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Please comment on Talk:Teresa Cristina of the Two Sicilies

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Please comment on Talk:Vaccine controversy

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The Bugle: Issue LXIV, June 2011

Your Military History Newsletter

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Campaign of the Mallians

Hey, I was wondering if I could get you to look through my article on the Mallians. I've done a lot of work on it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SteveMooreSmith3 (talk • contribs) 09:41, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Surnames of Lord Anne

Nice of you to take an interest here. Don't think great(to the power of a few)-grandpa Lord Anne Douglas-Hamilton would be too fussed which surname he held, especially considering his Christian name! Douglas/Hamilton/Douglas-Hamilton? Who cares? A younger son, Lord Anne, whose progeny inherited the senior titles of both houses, and chose to call themselves Douglas-Hamilton, much as the until 1902, branch did. Being the heir male of the great House of Douglas is not something to be swept under the carpet just for the 'unfortunate' fact that the same man happens to be the head of the House of Hamilton...So what? Brendandh (talk) 21:37, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Well that's awfully big of you! Opinion? Importance? Genealogical treatise? Um, this is supposed to be an encyclopaedia is it not? How important are you, with your opinion? Ever heard of ancestral memory, visiting the sites, hard copy in situ? No, didn't think so....Brendandh (talk) 22:07, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

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no Irish genealogy

Sorry to take so long. Not quite two days ago something unexpected happened and I have found myself in a situation I have no dignified way out of, so I reacted by buying whiskey to go along with my beer. Before I get drunk again shortly, after which I am going to force myself to stay up and go the library instead of passing out, I will tell you a little about what I meant.

I am not locked in a battle of wits with genealogists. Rather, you could call them computer and Internet specialists, who while appearing in part genuinely good-natured have done several things to make me unhappy, including wiretapping and hacking my computer. It will sound crazy, if you are interested. I should probably tell one hundred people I can trust, mainly of the academic type, but have not told a soul yet. Who knows what will happen in the future, but I need confidence when dealing with them... assuming I can survive my other situation. I am in love with one of them too, and a lot is very delicate. Can you keep a secret? Nora lives (talk) 12:38, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! It will take me some time to think of how I need to say it so that I won't sound insane! I'll get back to you. Cheers! Nora lives (talk) 19:06, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 25 July 2011

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Please comment on Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Schools

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Aircraft

I'm trying to understand your position, and I'd rather not clutter up the talk page with our colloquy. Isn't it always the case that an article about a category of something will be somewhat redundant with articles on types of things within the category? In this instance, wouldn't Glider, Hang glider, and Paraglider also be redundant with Fixed-wing aircraft? If so, shouldn't we delete those articles? Would you support deleting Helicopter because it's redundant with Rotary-wing aircraft? How about deleting Automobile because it's redundant with Motor vehicle? I'd appreciate some further clarification of your reasoning. Thanks. Dohn joe (talk) 16:17, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

I feel that we're arguing from different assumptions. Let me see if we can find out where we diverge. To start: do you agree that Fixed-wing aircraft=Airplane+Glider+Hang glider+Paraglider+Assorted other fixed-wing aircraft? Dohn joe (talk) 18:31, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Okay, I think I see what you're saying - when you divide "fixed-wing aircraft" into "airplanes" and "gliders" (omitting the others for brevity), you'll just have to divide "airplanes" again into "biplanes", "jets", etc., so why not just go straight from "fixed-wing aircraft" to "gliders", "biplanes", "jets", etc., and sidestep lopsidedness of categories, correct?
The problem I see with that is that "aeroplane", by itself, has encyclopedic content, separate from "fixed-wing aircraft", and separate from "gliders", and from "biplanes". To analogize, Romance languages has meaning separate from Indo-European languages on the one hand, and Albanian and Spanish on the other. Here's what I mean: "aeroplane" and "glider" are both subsets of "fixed-wing aircraft", just like "Romance languages" and "Albanian" are both subsets of "Indo-European languages". "Aeroplane" and "Romance languages" can be further divided into "biplanes". etc., and "Spanish", etc., while "glider" and "Albanian" cannot. But just because it seems lopsided when you put "aeroplane" next to "glider" - the same way it seems lopsided when you put "Romance languages" next to "Albanian" - doesn't mean that they don't carry meaning of their own. Does that make sense? Dohn joe (talk) 23:44, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Please stop

You're making the discussion at WP:Manual of Style very difficult with your constant changes and nonsense (everytime I try to post something, I have to begin anew because you've changed something around). I asked you kindly to place your comments outside the poll, to keep the poll organized and free of excessive writing, but apparently this is too much to ask. I respectfully commented against your suggestion of "Cosi Fan Tutti"; it does not apply in the issue. You're behaving like a child and your personal bias shows repeatedly. You're attempting to have an edit war as opposed to focusing on the issue at hand. All of your arguments have been answered to and made invalid, face it. Thank you. T.W. (talk) 19:08, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Hello again. Listen, my comments to you were not meant as personal attacks. I sensed some tension and was responding to it by making reference to things you've said. If you did not mean those things spitefully, then I believe you and I will not try to use them against you. This issue is very important to me and I'd like Misplaced Pages to have solid guidelines on the matter. I'll remove my comments not related to the main discussion, and I hope you do the same. By moving your comments I was not trying to tyrannize, I just wanted the discussion to run smoothly. T.W. (talk) 20:49, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

En dash spacing

PMA, at Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style/endash spacing we are trying to converge on a better consensus for the part of the en dash guidelines that talk about when they should be spaced or unspaced, which is an area that you said had not a good consensus. I think we can get to something that everyone can live with, but I still haven't heard what your position would be on this minor issue. If you care, please let us know at that subpage. Dicklyon (talk) 16:47, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

That attempt has come to an impasse. I still wonder what your position would be on it, but no matter. Dicklyon (talk) 15:50, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

The invitation for your opinion should not have been taken as an invitation to just go ahead and change the MOS section to your liking. Discuss first, find consensus, then we can change it. Changes in various directions have been found to find less support than what we have now, so let's stick unless we can do better. Dicklyon (talk) 22:32, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

You have been temporarily blocked from editing Misplaced Pages as a result of your disruptive edits. You are free to make constructive edits after the block has expired, but please note that vandalism (including page blanking or addition of random text), spam, deliberate misinformation, privacy violations, personal attacks; and repeated, blatant violations of our policies concerning neutral point of view and biographies of living persons will not be tolerated.

Consensus has been so hard to nut out - this and this are extremely unhelpful, as are your comments at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/endash_spacing. If you can't edit collaboratively then you need a break. Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:26, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Pmanderson (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

There was a discussion, to which I was invited immediately above, which reached no consensus; an impasse (as above) is no consensus. I made one effort to put in a briefer text which did not rule out the normal usage, as many at the discussion supported; I made a second effort to say this had no consensus - I don't see how any admin can look at this section and see consensus on the present text; it's difficult to find anyone who agrees with it - both option b and option d are changes, in the same direction. Both edits were reverted by the same editor, using Twinkle (first reversion; second reversion) At that point, I left the page, discussing the matter at length on talk when challenged, and requesting protection. I do not intend to edit the page again; I believe I said so. Casliber is an involved admin, defending a text which he claims to be consensus, although it is in part barely a majority (as this post, by the drafter, admits. If I am unblocked, I will not touch MOS for at least a week; I did not revert the revert-warrior because I had decided not to touch lt.Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:19, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Decline reason:

Consider these two points:

  • The vast majority of users have never been blocked, or only been blocked once or twice, early in their Misplaced Pages careers.
  • Most unblock requests are replied to within a few hours at the most.

Now consider why you are the exception to both. And that is why you won't be getting unblocked early. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:47, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

I have duly considered. One could not possibly suppose that I have irritated the Cabal, for there is none; neither can one suppose that this is the old proverb of "give a dog a bad name and shoot it." Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:48, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
Just to make this clear, this is not an arbcom/AE block, is it? T. Canens (talk) 21:49, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
Not at all. Casliber chose to mediate the controversy at WT:MOS, but he is acting as an admin. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:08, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

I very much hope that no admin undoes Casliber’s block. PMA has a long history of disruptive editing. Casliber laid out clear and valid reasoning to show that PMA showed no interest in civilly discussing things; quite the opposite, as Casliber demonstrated in his block reasoning. PMA’s got to learn that he must change his ways; merely pledging to stay away from the area where he went way beyond the line of disruption isn’t going to provide him with a sufficient attitude transplant. One of his last posts (And rhe other liar is heard from. My "self-declared" goal is the improvement of MOIS; if I wanted to abolish it, I would do what most Wikiepedians do and ignore it. But since Diclyon;s text is unsupported by consensus, style guides,,or usage, there will be az few who need mo other reason to approve of it) betrayed not only that he was fully prepared to type what he thought (calling a respected editor a “liar”) but his string of typos betrayed that he staying up too late or getting himself too wrapped up in the wikidrama. For a variety of reasons, Casliber’s block needs to be respected. Greg L (talk) 23:35, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

This does show I was typing hastily - but all that means is that it was mealtime. Casliber is an involved admin; Greg L is an involved editor; both would prefer to pretend that opposition does not exist.
Nevertheless, this proposal shows definite hope; we will see whether not "pretending that it is wise to try to change the writing habits of experienced, knowledgeable contributors who actually own and abide by respected manuals of style" has any traction.
I expect it to be ignored for a week, since MOS has consistently pretended to change everybody's writing habits - which is why it could use improvement; so as not to interfere with the experiment, I will not endorse it elsewhere until the week is over. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:59, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
No, PMA. I do not pretend that opposition does not exist. And, yes, I am involved. But that doesn’t blind me to what is going on in venues you frequent. This is entirely about how one properly interacts with others in a collaborative writing environment, where disagreements always arise. You can’t continue to have influence on matters wildly beyond nose-count by relying upon tactics that worked in the past. If you can’t *feel* and intuit conduct-expected for a collegial environment, then you should take advantage of your wikibreak to study others’ posts and try to mimic the raw mechanics of proper interaction with others. Greg L (talk) 00:10, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
Indeed, he tries to use against me the fact that I acknowledge the opposition, and against you the claim that you don't. I have most recently put here a summary of the few who have opposed the usage that he is picking on, with a link to where someone else can count the voters, too, and asked to be corrected if I missed anyone. It's not many, and the other many opposer, JeffConrad, agreed with restoring Noetica's version, even though he doesn't like it. PMA prefers to disrupt instead. After all the trouble he has provoked all year, a week off is nothing. Dicklyon (talk) 00:22, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
I am not an involved admin, my role in the process was administrative after the arbitration committee passed a motion directing the community to establish guidelines over a period of two months. My role was secondary to that to see that it reached a conclusion. I have not expressed an opinion about what I think the consensus should be. The block was for attempting to directly undermine and weaken the conclusion reached. The length of the block was because of the violation of the explicit warning, and delicacy of the situation and the time donated by many editors to date. Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:18, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
I am pe4rfectly willing to take a week off from MOS; what I ask is to be permitted to edit elsewhere. Casliber's claims amount to taking a (feather-slim) majority as consensus; but that is best discussed in another place. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:44, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
Here you go again, twisting language. You need to stop interpreting language to suit your world view. This is part of teh problem, especially when you act disruptively based on your interpretations. Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:25, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
Well, that should demonstrate Casliber's emotional involvement; those who see emotion in typoes will observe his. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:23, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

PMA, if I may... I'm not involved in this particular fiasco (dashes) but I'm curious about something. As you know, I get into conflicts quite often too. I know I don't try to do it on purpose, and I presume you don't either. But I do see one key difference, as exemplified by the difference between what happened here with you, and what happened with me on WP:AT yesterday. You can never know for sure, but I, like you, usually don't bother with starting a talk page discussion if it's a minor change of clarity. So, in my case, I made some minor clarifying edits, and was reverted with the typically obnoxious "discuss first" remark (or something to that effect). But here's the difference, I abided by BRD... I didn't revert the revert, or make another similar change, even though no reason for the revert was given, because BRD recommends, but does not require, the reverter to provide a reason, especially on policy/guideline pages. I started a discussion. But in your case you didn't abide with BRD... you went with BRR (okay, not exactly a 2nd revert but close) and that of course lead to this. So... why not BRD? --Born2cycle (talk) 00:49, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

If Born2cycle can't see the difference between two entirely different edits on the same subject, I don't suppose anybody else can be expected to.
When dealing with a revert-warrior, it has usually been a sound practice to make several different edits on the same subject; sometimes one of them will satisfy his objection, often surprisingly; if not, the record of exact reversions will be helpful later.
So I made two edits:
  • One of them was a substantive proposal, which followed several of the suggestions in the conversation described above as an impasse.
  • The other was a simple statement that the conversation had not reached consensus, which seemed a reasonable, even non-controversial, assertion, when even the revert-warrior had described it as an impasse.
When, to my surprise, this second edit was reverted, I did take it to talk. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 01:00, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
We're talking about these two edits, right?
The first edit was reverted with the comment, "Please respect the consensus process like the rest of us have been trying to do; discuss first. "
I see the difference between the two edits, but my question is why there was any second edit to that same section at all, instead of going directly to discussion per BRD? Ignoring BRD like that, especially after that remark, is what gets everyone's ire going, and results in blocks for you. Or so it seems to me.
Your second edit followed that revert. Changing "...except for times and dates (or similar cases) when ..." to "...there is no consensus on times and dates, such as ..." seems like a relatively significant change to me. But again, significant or not, it was an edit of the same section about which you were just asked to "discuss first". --Born2cycle (talk) 01:43, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

PMA: In response to this suggestion: Now consider why you are the exception to both, you responded I have duly considered. One could not possibly suppose that I have irritated the Cabal. Well… you finally hit the nail right on the head. Except that what you dismiss as a “cabal” is also known as “the group of editors comprising the consensus view”. So you might have instead written One could not possibly suppose that I have irritated the the group of editors comprising the consensus view. All editors are supposed to find and abide by consensus; that principal is one of Misplaced Pages’s Five pillars. After your block expires, it seems there are two paths you will elect to head down:

  1. Continue to falsely think that the details of the dispute are all that matters (with statements from you like Casliber's claims amount to taking a (feather-slim) majority as consensus) because you feel you have Might and Truth On Your Side and Are On A Righteous Mission To Protect All That is Good and Holy In Writing Traditions, or…
  2. Finally figure out that despite the above sense, it doesn’t matter if you just go and piss off a bunch of other people who are collegially trying to engage in a hobby and actually enjoy that hobby as they go about building an encyclopedia.

If you can’t make the leap to #2 and abide by it, and instead continue to view your participation on the project as just a matter of “Get my way on MOS and MOSNUM and crush a silly and sorely mistaken cabal that opposes me,” then you are just setting yourself up for still more disappointment and frustration. Greg L (talk) 03:14, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

When I must choose whom to frustrate, I prefer to stand with those who are actually writing the encyclopedia, in English, to those whose hobby consists of making up rules by which to reinvent the English language. I have nothing against their fun, as long as it is kept away from those who are trying to do something useful.
The "consensus view" quoted above is shown by !votes of 15-14, and the admins who accept such majorities as consensus. Yes, that consensus is against me (but not even all 15 of it). It wants me blocked because it has no case it can present without embarassment. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:58, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

I have a question: Pmanderson, do you think it is possible to ever disagree with you? Or is that an impossibility? --OpenFuture (talk) 07:27, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

It is perfectly possible to disagree with me. If disagreement is supported by reliable sources, actual policy, or consensus as we define it (that is to say, general acceptance), I will yield, and always have; if supported by argument, it depends on the strength of the argument. Ask those who have provided such. Those who have presented nothing save their opinion find that I value it for every electron it is worth. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:58, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
Well, let's discuss whether that is true some other time. What I tried to ask is not if it is possible for you to change your mind, but if it is possible to disagree with you. When you yield and change your mind based on arguments, you end up agreeing. The question hence is if it is possible to disagree with you; ie if it is possible to have another standpoint than the one you see as correct. --OpenFuture (talk) 17:45, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
Unfortunately I got no answer to that. The question has a reason, and that reason is that you dismiss everyone who disagrees with you. They are according to you either liars (ie, they know that they are wrong), vandals (have no interest in truth) or don't understand/write proper English or are in other ways illiterate (ie they do not understand what they are talking about). To me it seems that you don't even want to consider that other peoples opinions may be valid. This is also played out in that you generally are not engaging in constructive consensus-building. You revert-war and you explain on talk page why you don't have to listen to others. None of that is constructive.
In short: You would not be blocked now, or any other time, if you just listened to those that disagree with you and took their position seriously. The fact that you 99% of the time is correct may have something to do with this, as you then tend to assume you are right always. But that means that the few times where you are incorrect, the result is edit wars and personal attacks, and finally blocks. I think you can change that. --OpenFuture (talk) 05:40, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
I do not assume I am right always. I accept correction, as I have said, from the informed, the literate, and the intellectually honest. Unfortunately, Misplaced Pages is a attraction for those who are none of the above. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:43, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
No you don't, Pmanderson. You claim that people who do not agree with you are misinformed, illiterate and dishonest. Your position on the topic is what determines your opinion of these people, not the other way around. You should probably sit down and have a deep look inside yourself and on your behavior if you wish to avoid being blocked in the future. But then again I suspect you enjoy the conflict... :-) --OpenFuture (talk) 04:40, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
PMA, how often can correctness be seen with such clarity on typical WP issues like the ndash issue that anyone's confidence in their view being correct can rise to the level of certitude? --Born2cycle (talk) 19:23, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
I think what everyone is really trying to say here is that no matter how correct you believe your position to be, it is important to be able to recognize when you have lost an argument. As you know, Misplaced Pages works by consensus. It is possible that consensus will favor a position that you regard as wrong. When that occurs it is much better to admit to yourself that despite the correctness of your position it is not supported by the wider community than to perpetuate the dispute through tendentious editing. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:42, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
Hallelujah! What Beeblebrox said. It’s no more complex than that. Greg L (talk) 03:28, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
But this is what am I asling for: the power to walk away, and do something else. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:47, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
You had that power all along, and you didn't exercise it. When your block expires you will still have it. Whether you use it or not will, as it always has been, be up to you. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:59, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

(PMAnderson, I thought you might like someone to drop in and say you're a great contributor. I don't know what any of this is about, but you're fucking fierce. You're gonna love what I have to tell you one of these days (whatever it is), when I figure out more of what the fucking is going on with my own situation.) Nora lives (talk) 00:33, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue LXV, July 2011

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Issachar ben Mordecai ibn Susan

Re: , please explain what confusion there is by calling Issachar ben Mordecai ibn Susan a Palestinian-Jewish mathematician. I do not see a difference between Abu Al-walid Marwan ibn Janah being called a Spanish rabbi and Meyer Löw Schomberg a German-Jewish physician? Thanks. Chesdovi (talk) 15:29, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

As you have not replied to my response, I take it you concede that you acknowledge assumptions on the matter were unfounded? Chesdovi (talk) 17:10, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Can you please elaborate?

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ANI against you, unfortunately

PMA. I was considering leaving a post on the talk page of admin GTBacchus suggesting you go take a good long wikibreak. But your incivility is totally out of hand and your disruption to the project and the toll you take on others as they try to contribute to the project outweighs, in my opinion, the value you bring to the project at this time. I don’t know what has gotten into you, but your behavior reminds me of “suicide by cop”, where you are just asking for it. You are subject to an ANI, here. Greg L (talk) 00:39, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

General sources

Pmanderson, hi.

I thought I'd move here from the thread on my talk page, because I want to jettison most of that and bring up a topic in a more focused way. I'm trying to understand your views regarding this issue because you obviously see something I don't, and I'd like to see it. Maybe you'll help me get better at what I do here.

Is it your position that sources such as newspapers and online dictionaries should carry more weight in titling decisions than sources such as print dictionaries, books on the subject, and standard references in the field in question?

If that's not what's a stake, then I guess I still don't understand your position, or exactly what your critique of my close is. Sorry if I'm being dense. I see that the timing and the rationale can both be questioned. In this post, I'm referring to the rationale, that we've been discussing. Timing is a separate issue, at least from my end, and I'm happy to address that separately.

So, yeah. What's up? General sources? -GTBacchus 17:04, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

My position is that the greatest weight should be given to the usage of other works of general reference. To choose an example away from cookery, it is quite true that a biography of Gustavus Adolphus is called Gustaf Adolf the Great, a claque of the Swedish; den Store, IIRC. But the normal English is shown not by this, but by the encyclopedias and general histories in English which normally call him Gustavus Adolphus. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:42, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
I'd still like to reply to this, but I don't have time right now. This issue is an important one, and I don't want it to be lost in the noise of everything else that's going on. -GTBacchus 07:06, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

ArbCom

I'm going to be filing a case with ArbCom to follow up on the thread at AN/I, which I'm not sure is going to come to any meaningful conclusion. There seems to be enough call for issues to be addressed that it's at least worth putting a case together. We'll see whether ArbCom wants to hear it. I've informed the four editors you first named at my talk page that they're on my initial list of parties to the dispute. You are certainly also a party, and I'm informing you of it all now. I'm a party, too, obviously, and everyone involved will be examined, I'm sure.

If there is anyone else I should be listing, please let me know. Thanks. -GTBacchus 07:06, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

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Island

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P.S. Which is common name in English, Lefkada or Lefkas ? Takabeg (talk) 05:23, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Outcome of community discussion

There is no point in blocking now for civility issues occurring previously. Let us instead see if we can prevent repetition. Since all are agreed that WP:MOS is the current flashpoint, and there is a very considerable consensus that you need to stay away from it for some considerable time, let us try this. You are Topic banned from WP:MOS and discussions anywhere on the project concerning the Manual of Style or technical aspects of the use of the English language, including this talkpage, for a period of one year. I note that you have already agreed to leave this area alone, so I do not anticipate an enforcement issue, but if you should breach the ban, you can expect to be blocked for one week for a first offence and for the residuum of the topic ban for a repeat offence. If during the topic ban period, another substantial issue to do with civility, tendentious editing, personal attacks and/or disruption should arise, I have to advise that you face being banned from Misplaced Pages permanently. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 09:28, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

—Please be careful. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 20:53, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

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Misplaced Pages talk:Romanization of Russian#Closing straw poll

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Notice

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The Bugle: Issue LXVI, August 2011

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What do you think?

Hi PM, what would you think of the title, Gdańsk and Danzig? That was rhetorical, but this is not: how about Sega Genesis and Mega Drive? --Born2cycle (talk) 17:14, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

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Content question

... because I wouldn't dare ask you about anything else.

Can you recall an ancient source that says that "German" men sold their wives to the Romans? Tacitus, of course, likes to think that German women are strong and respected (and rather terrifying). I'm trying to find a basis for the claim made by a piece of modern scholarship here. This seems contrary to German stereotypes among the Romans, even setting aside Tacitus and his particular purposes. I reviewed Strabo superficially, but then got lazy and thought I'd just see whether you knew what might account for this. Cynwolfe (talk) 16:08, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. I've done what I can do there, I think, and I'm going to take a WP break now. As a prophylactic measure, for the sake of sanity. Cynwolfe (talk) 05:18, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

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Moving Burma to Myanmar - ongoing poll

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Please comment on Talk:Mexico City

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The Bugle: Issue LXVII, September 2011

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Removal of properly sourced material

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Please comment on Talk:Iranian Azerbaijanis

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A barnstar for you!

The Barnstar of Diligence
For your excellent contributions to the WP:V Truth, not verifiability (or is that backwards? :) discussion! Keep up the good work! Dreadstar ☥ 18:55, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

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Katrina Kaif

Hello Siafu! I hope this message finds you doing well! I read your comment at the RfC and have replied to you there. I look forward to your response :) Have a nice day! With regards, Anupam 21:36, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Musing

I once started to write an article on otium, and then decided it would be the most difficult topic I'd ever tried to write about on Misplaced Pages and demurred. Next time anybody argues that a certain other article That Dares Not Speak Its Name is too original and conceptually difficult and synthy … well, just sayin'. Cynwolfe (talk) 22:08, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

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Please comment on Talk:Veterans Day

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If you're interested

I vaguely remembered you participating in a similar conversation long ago (and looked it up and saw you did), so I wanted to let you a know about recent exchange at Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style#Does MOS:RETAIN override MOS:LQ? in case you had some comment to add. Warmest regards --Neutrality 01:29, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Action at WP:ANI that concerns you

PMAnderson, you have some time ago requested that I not post at your page. I am happy not to, of course. But I am obliged now to inform you of a section I have initiated at WP:ANI, since it concerns you.

Noetica 10:52, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 21 November 2011

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Please comment on Talk:Continuation War

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RM for "Darius the Great"

The Bugle: Issue LXVIII, October 2011

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Otium

I see you've been pretty active on this article since it was created. It is currently nominated for Did you know; but the presence of maintenance tags was a clear issue preventing the nomination from progressing. Doug Coldwell in his most recent edit claims to have: "removed all controversal issues, so therefore there are no issues. Removed Accuracy tags". Given your activity there, and that you placed a number of the tags, would you be able to confirm with me that you are happy those issues have been resolved before I continue with the nomination's review? Kind regards, Harrias 23:12, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Citing sources

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Maybe you missed it.

Maybe you missed it, but PBS was just banned for his conduct. I would suggest leaving the discussion open and letting the admins flesh it out. -Kai445 (talk) 20:46, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Technical point - blocked, not banned -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 20:53, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Yoghurt

PBS had no right to unilaterally close that discussion, nor to protect the page against non-admin editing (the latter I see as abuse of admin tools, and I have blocked him for it and the edit war over the closure). If we have to leave it at any specific state until the discussion is finished, it should be the state at which it was before the controversial action took place - there is currently no consensus, either in the community as a whole or at ANI, to close the RM discussion and stifle the consensus that is clearly developing -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 20:52, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Just be careful not to stray into problem areas. I know Tony has already warned you on another matter, and you've deleted the warning.--Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:49, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

AN/I

Hi. I've requested a review of my actions regarding the Talk:Yoghurt page, at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#My block of admin User:Philip Baird Shearer - review please, and would welcome your thoughts -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 22:20, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 05 December 2011

Please comment on Talk:Azad Kashmir

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The Signpost: 12 December 2011

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Please comment on Talk:Ely, Cambridgeshire

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You are my sockpuppet

apparently ! Johnbod (talk) 14:28, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 19 December 2011

Insight?

Hi, PMA.

Perhaps you could provide some insight/clarification on why the change was made to remove the wording that clarified that "recognizability" was in the context of those familiar with the topic? I've started a discussion that includes links to the original wording and an archived discussion about the change, in which you were involved, here: Wikipedia_talk:Article_titles#Clarification_of_recognizability_lost.

The current wording is being used to argue that titles need to be recognizable to those unfamiliar with the topic.

I restored the familiarity wording, but I've already been reverted. Thanks. --Born2cycle (talk) 07:23, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

This conversation has been interrupted by the remarks of an editor who wishes to impose an interpretation of my ban (far above) with which hardly anybody agrees. Tony, if you have nothing agreeable to say, and are not required to post, please stay off my talk page; your friends and allies have had the grace to do so. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:12, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine

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ANI

PMA. I wish it didn’t come to this, but I’ve taken you to ANI, here, for your persistent violations of your topic ban. Greg L (talk) 03:46, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Blocked

With regret, following the discussion current at ANI. If you were searching for the boundary of your topic ban, you have hit it. I will not need to remind you that any further breaches will have longer consequences, and also that if you are viewed as becoming disruptive (and threatening to cause problems if a discussion does not go your way, which is how this is being read, falls into that camp) it is likely that a further discussion in respect of a full ban will ensue. Please be more careful - people are watching your edits and you are unwise to give them ammunition with which to oppose you. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 14:03, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Elen: Please explain, in your view, how any of this is "technical aspects of the English language" - and I will comply with your interpretation of your ban. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:27, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
When I looked at it at first I thought "no, he's talking about history, what 'march' and 'marcher' meant in the historical sense. In fact, you may have been. If your evidence had been "Sue, Grabbit and Run all refer to Moravia as a march, and these are the key sources in the English language" then the case would have been closed and the ANI dismissed. The trouble is, the way you phrased it was "in English...this" and "in English...that" and it looks like you're not just arguing about how historically the term was used in English, but about how the descriptions in Czech and German should be translated into English. Clearly the margravine thing, while supported, also only tells part of the story. Obviously once the ruler was called a margrave, the province becomes a margravine (once you're married, the girl automatically becomes your wife), but the question of whether the term 'march' (or equivalent in 'furrin') applied prior to or during the period is one for sources, not discussion on translations. Given that your edits are being watched so carefully, there is a distinct need to be cautious. I also think that saying that you would make some protest if the article was moved is unwise - if you meant 'if the article is moved without a full discussion' then it would be prudent to say that clearly, otherwise you are coming over as saying 'if I disagree with the outcome, I will make trouble'.--Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:45, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
The commment was not so intended, and I accept your criticism.
On the substance of the issue, you are essentially correct. I would support a division between the tenth century term, and the nineteenth century term, which are different because the status of Moravia changed; thinking about it, the simplest solution might be History of Moravia.
But I did not take WP:USEENGLISH (which is more moderate than its label) to be a "technical aspect of English"; was that your intention?
And if you could get three or four editors to stop stalking me, and making repeated complaints until they get their way, we could all return to writing the encyclopedia. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 03:36, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
I have noted that your edits are being studiously followed.... That is why you have to be so careful with how things will sound. This block has at least damped off the attempt to up the sanctions, and I note that contributors to the discussion did support the view that arguing that one should use English rather than another language was not a technical argument about the english language. I think it possible that had the argument about the use of the term 'march' been phrased completely from a historical context a block might have been avoided. I also think you should try to be a little less combative, but that's just personal advice.Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:21, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
Elen, I figure you are watching this page so I’ll make this post here. If you are going to hand him advise for keeping him out of further hot water, why not hit the nail on the head?
For at least me—and I suspect many others who typically have run-ins with PMA—it is not about how he might have avoided trouble had his argument been “phrased differently.” As I’ve mentioned before and I’ll say it again: I agree with PMA’s general worldview on using English in an English-language encyclopedia. Sure, PMA and I will have our disagreements over gray areas, like “Crêpe v.s. Crepe”, but I initially agreed with his position and then changed my mind after seeing new evidence that was later presented.
The remedy for PMA’s run-ins has been to limit PMA from arguments over technical aspects of English. But the problem is PMA’s continuing to position himself as a roadblock who simply must be placated if there is to be any end to tendentiousness. Specifically, when he wrote Make that vehemently oppose. We are written in English, not German or Czech; and the meaning of "march" in English is not so limited, it seemed clear that he had finally registered a !vote that would be evaluated by a closing admin to discern what consensus, if any, existed. But, not having gained traction with his arguments (which is to say, when it looked like he wasn’t getting his way), he then—once again—reverted to his textbook modus operandi of hoping atop the tavern bar and making a pronouncement loud enough for all partygoers to hear: If this article is moved, I shall dispute the accuracy of the title.
In short, if we are to be handing out advise, I think the more valuable lesson here is that his input would be welcome most anywhere if he could offer a single post at an RfC or RM move that…
  1. Was well grounded in Misplaced Pages’s Five Pillars,
  2. Cited and quoted Misplaced Pages’s relevant policies and guidelines,
  3. Cited and quoted germane evidence of real-world practices of RSs (or whatever evidence is relevant), and then
  4. Fell (nearly) silent and didn’t badger and bluster; which is to say desist with acting like he was a Great Force to be reckoned with and had an opinion that out-trumped the others on discussion pages.
If he keeps on being fed advise that amounts to “keep your little pinky out while sipping your English tea and craft your arguments more cleverly so it doesn’t look like a technical argument”, he’s not going to learn the most important lesson of all: he is but one voice and a little more humility in a collaborative writing environment is in order. Greg L (talk) 05:58, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXIX, November 2011

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The Signpost: 26 December 2011

Please use a genuinely authoritative source

  • See this. –OneLeafKnowsAutumn (talk) 14:25, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
    • WP:NCGN#BGN says that the GEOnet server normally presents local official usage in the country concerned (for example, Frankfurt am Main); in a handful of cases, like Florence, it has a conventional name field. Its BGN Approved is a systematic transliteration, as Moskva — Misplaced Pages prefers Moscow, which is also the BGN conventional name. Where it acknowledges a conventional name, it is evidence of widespread English usage; where it does not, it is not addressing our primary question. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:12, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
    • See my arguments on that talk page: The Republic of China uses "Kinmen" exclusively on its English language pages. Why do we overrule their government? Google searches are counter-productive because of incidents from the 1950s; frequency of Misplaced Pages hits is counter-productive because it disseminates incorrect info (redirects are educational); various outdated dictionaries are trumped by official English-language usage. Merriam-Webster hasn't bothered to update its info; perhaps they see Kinmen as a flyspeck. –OneLeafKnowsAutumn (talk) 00:36, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
Why are you holding this discussion here? Take it back to the article talkpage please. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:21, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:History of Azerbaijan

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The Signpost: 02 January 2012


Please comment on Talk:John of Damascus

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The Signpost: 09 January 2012

MOS discussion that may be of interest

Because of your previous input on various iterations of the debate about the lower-casing vs. capitalization of the common names of animals (domestic cat, blue whale vs. Domestic Cat, Blue Whale), you may be interested in this thread proposing key points that should be addressed by the guidelines: WT:Manual of Style#Species capitalization points. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(ل)ˀ Contribs. 05:49, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Taliban

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The Signpost: 16 January 2012


The Bugle: Issue LXX, January 2012

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99% declaration has been nominated for deletion

Feel free to weigh in on the discussion here: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/99 Percent Declaration (2nd nomination).--Amadscientist (talk) 11:36, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Burning of Washington

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Please comment on Talk:Religion in Africa

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Please comment on Talk:East Germany

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The Signpost: 06 February 2012

February 2012

You have been blocked from editing for a period of One year for using a sockpuppet account User:JCScaliger to circumvent your topic ban.. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you would like to be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the text {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:17, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

My sympathies

It's a pity that we are losing your voice from Misplaced Pages. I don't want to pass any judgement on the MOS stuff, which I didn't follow. But I did follow many RMs that you were involved with and it is my opinion that your role was a helpful and productive one. Kauffner (talk) 12:16, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

My initial reaction was something like, "Wow, JCScaliger was a sock of PMA?" And I assumed a year block was reasonable for circumventing a topic ban by using a sock.

But now a few days have passed and I find myself asking a few questions...

  1. Did "JCScaliger" do anything wrong, inappropriate, disruptive or harmful to WP in any way?
  2. What about no harm no foul?
  3. If the purpose of blocking is not punishment, and neither PMA nor JCS was causing WP any harm, what is the purpose of this block again?
  4. I understand that threatened consequences have to be carried out in order for them to be effective as deterrents. But it seems to me that we should block editors only for engaging in behavior that is actually problematic, and even then only when the blocking is the only reasonable method to solve the problem in question. Is that the case here?
  5. Even assuming a topic ban is justified, what if anything is inherently wrong with that user using a sock to edit in the banned area as long as the editing is not problematic?
Misplaced Pages - the encyclopedia anyone can edit... anyone but PMA, that is...

Anyway, best wishes to you. I miss your pithy commentary, to say the least. --Born2cycle (talk) 07:49, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

  • He got caught. I'm surprised in the other direction. Violating a topic ban is taken quite seriously here on WP; socking is regarded as the Cardinal Sin, AFAICT. --Ohconfucius 08:46, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

To a fallen comrade

There is a homily to be a person of nice,
which was said many times by he called Christ,
the message of deep you did not hear it,
spoken loud and clear from the Holy Spirit,
It is not from Shakespeare or even his Hamlet,
but sometimes is called the Great Commandment.
So next time you start to put on your shoe,
think what you would have others to do,
The Torah said it’s not from a fool,
is oftentimes called the Golden Rule.
The Holy Spirit you did not hear,
not even others that spoke so dear,
You gave no credit,
not even a pence,
which I would say,
lacks common sense
You danced around a pointed fence,
that only angered a trusted prince,
she gave you clear and bright advice,
before you got the big surprise.
Now we plug along our way,
to make our normal harvest hay,
no bugs or pests to bother our crop,
from here and there we now can hop,
when later we see you oh my dear,
which many I'm sure would like a year.
The Holy Spirit is there for you,
if only you had eyes to view,
But even then you would not know,
for to you its fog and snow.
Now again I’ll reveal the secret,
pray this time you have de grit,
to pick up on those many hints,
it is nothing but common sense.
Here is a little more for you to bear,
that I am sure you wish not to hear.
This is Wiki and not your wala,
my friend and companion is Ursula.
Since it looks like you are still in limbo,
I suggest you contact Jimbo----Christie the puppy lover (talk) 13:45, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 13 February 2012

Leisure time

Semi-retired for awhile?
Enjoy your otium Doug Coldwell 22:53, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 20 February 2012

The Bugle: Issue LXXI, February 2012

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Rats!

Why is it always the good ones who have to go :) I can't get myself het up over the MOS stuff but your always thoughtful comments on various move discussions will be sorely missed. Interesting (the group sociology of wikipedia). --regentspark (comment) 00:52, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you; it's a social website, not an encyclopedia. The social dynamic here seems out of Milan Kundera; the picture of enraptured youth dancing in a circle. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:24, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Republic of China article

Since you have previously discussed about the Republic of China, I guess you are interested to share your insights at Talk:Republic of China#Requested Move (February 2012). Thanks for your attention. 61.18.170.67 (talk) 18:50, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Article titles and capitalisation closed

An arbitration case regarding article titles and capitalisation has now closed and the final decision is viewable at the link above. The following remedies have been enacted:

  1. All parties are reminded to avoid personalizing disputes concerning the Manual of Style, the article titles policy ('WP:TITLE'), and similar policy and guideline pages, and to work collegiately towards a workable consensus. In particular, a rapid cycle of editing these pages to reflect one's viewpoint, then discussing the changes is disruptive and should be avoided. Instead, parties are encouraged to establish consensus on the talk page first, and then make the changes.
  2. Pmanderson is indefinitely prohibited from engaging in discussions and edits relating to the Manual of Style or policy about article titles.
  3. Standard discretionary sanctions are authorized for all pages related to the English Misplaced Pages Manual of Style and article titles policy, broadly construed.
  4. Born2cycle is warned that his contributions to discussion must reflect a better receptiveness to compromise and a higher tolerance for the views of other editors.

For the Arbitration Committee, Alexandr Dmitri (talk) 22:59, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Dispute resolution survey

Dispute Resolution – Survey Invite

Hello Pmanderson. I am currently conducting a study on the dispute resolution processes on the English Misplaced Pages, in the hope that the results will help improve these processes in the future. Whether you have used dispute resolution a little or a lot, now we need to know about your experience. The survey takes around five minutes, and the information you provide will not be shared with third parties other than to assist in analyzing the results of the survey. No personally identifiable information will be released.

Please click HERE to participate.
Many thanks in advance for your comments and thoughts.

You are receiving this invitation because you have had some activity in dispute resolution over the past year. For more information, please see the associated research page. Steven Zhang 12:05, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Requested move of Côte d'Ivoire

There is currently a discussion on moving the article Côte d'Ivoire to Ivory Coast. You are being notified since you participated in a previous discussion on this topic. Please join the discussion here if you are interested. TDL (talk) 02:25, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Halfway through

Fire and Water (2007) by Judy Watson, Reconciliation Place, Canberra

Don't know whether you ever look here during your exile, but just wanted to let you know that I miss asking for your informed opinions. Cynwolfe (talk) 02:06, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Moving Burma to Myanmar - ongoing poll

This is to let you know that an ongoing poll is taking place to move Burma to Myanmar. I know this happened just recently but no administrator would close these frequent rm's down, so here we go again. This note is going out to wikipedia members who have participated in Burma/Myanmar name changing polls in the past. It does not include banned members nor those with only ip addresses. Thank you. Fyunck(click) (talk) 23:33, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

The Olive Branch: A Dispute Resolution Newsletter (Issue #1)

Welcome to the first edition of The Olive Branch. This will be a place to semi-regularly update editors active in dispute resolution (DR) about some of the most important issues, advances, and challenges in the area. You were delivered this update because you are active in DR, but if you would prefer not to receive any future mailing, just add your name to this page.

Steven Zhang's Fellowship Slideshow

In this issue:

  • Background: A brief overview of the DR ecosystem.
  • Research: The most recent DR data
  • Survey results: Highlights from Steven Zhang's April 2012 survey
  • Activity analysis: Where DR happened, broken down by the top DR forums
  • DR Noticeboard comparison: How the newest DR forum has progressed between May and August
  • Discussion update: Checking up on the Wikiquette Assistance close debate
  • Proposal: It's time to close the Geopolitical, ethnic, and religious conflicts noticeboard. Agree or disagree?
Read the entire first edition of The Olive Branch -->

--The Olive Branch 19:23, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Move2

Template:Move2 has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 06:10, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:SPIDER listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Misplaced Pages:SPIDER. Since you had some involvement with the Misplaced Pages:SPIDER redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). Rcsprinter (shout) @ 21:06, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Early greetings for the new year

Best Wishes for a Happy New Year!
May 2013 bring you rewarding experiences and an abundance of everything you most treasure.
Cynwolfe (talk) 16:59, 28 December 2012 (UTC)


Victory, Janus, Chronos, and Gaea (1532–34) by Giulio Romano

Don't know whether you're coming back, or if so under this name, but your erudition is missed. Cynwolfe (talk) 16:59, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Marseille

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Welcome back!

I see you're editing again - good to have you back! --regentspark (comment) 18:25, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

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Please comment on Talk:List of Christian pilgrimage sites

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Joshua tree

Your opinion is needed at Joshua tree talk page. -- Robinlarson (talk) 20:22, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

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Maybe self-proclaimed naming and advocacy?

Help please! We're in a bit of a pickle here and here. Thank uou for your brief attention. --Septimus Wilkinson (talk) 00:09, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

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WP Classical Greece and Rome in the Signpost

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Please comment on Talk:Ferenc Szaniszló

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Welcome back.

Glad to see you editing again. older ≠ wiser 02:53, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Article titles for legislative acts

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Talkback from Technical 13

Hello, Pmanderson. You have new messages at Talk:Beersheba.
Message added 12:54, 8 May 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Another move request for this page. Technical 13 (talk) 12:54, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

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Please comment on Talk:Ethnic conflict in Sri Lanka

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Please comment on Talk:Fabrika automobila Priboj

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Please comment on Talk:M-87 Orkan

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Please comment on Talk:Quantifier variance

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Please comment on Misplaced Pages talk:Naming conventions (Vietnamese)

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Please comment on Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style

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Please comment on Talk:17-Mile Drive

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Requested move

Hello, Pmanderson. You have already expressed your opinion once at Talk:Armenian Question about this. I thought that perhaps my Requested move 06 August 2013 might be of interest to you also. Thanks. Poeticbent talk 18:02, 6 August 2013 (UTC)


RM: Berlin Central Station → Berlin Hauptbahnhof

Please comment on Talk:Kamapitha

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Please comment on Talk:India

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Where should Siam redirect?

Where should the Siam page redirect? Please discuss at Talk:Siam. —  AjaxSmack  03:01, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

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Please comment on Talk:Yuilop

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Please comment on Talk:Adolf Hitler

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On a break?

I've missed your contributions and wondered whether you are returning? Deb (talk) 07:35, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

"sigh" - That's too bad. Deb (talk) 16:25, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

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Plant article naming convention

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Please comment on Talk:Iran–Iraq War

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Edit war warning

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Please comment on Misplaced Pages talk:Conflict of interest limit

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Please comment on an RfC about Living members of deposed royal families and the titles attributed to them on WP

Hello - I have opened an RfC about suggested guidelines in the Manual of Style for articles about living members of families whose ancestors were deposed as monarchs of various countries and the titles and "styles" attributed to these living people, at the moment often in a misleading and inaccurate way in my opinion. Please join in the discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style/Biographies "Use of royal "Titles and styles" and honorific prefixes in articles and templates referring to pretenders to abolished royal titles and their families"Regards,Smeat75 (talk) 07:21, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

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A new edit

You made a change to a page on my watch list, the first one I have seen you make in a long time. Welcome back. -- PBS (talk) 02:37, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Comparison of S.M.A.R.T. tools

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Please comment on Talk:Holodomor

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Remember Rktect?

See Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Rktect. Dougweller (talk) 21:59, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Graph partition

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Please comment on Talk:2003 in Afghanistan

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Please comment on Talk:Quranism

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Please comment on Talk:Producerism

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Please comment on Talk:Electrical telegraph

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Hi

Hi, it's nice to see you editing a bit more. I wanted to say so before, but I was on break myself in November-December (sulking, you know). Bishzilla says hello rawrr. You're most welcome to hang out in the pocket, she's been decorating it. Enjoy winter sports! Decompress in Poet's Corner! Bishonen | talk 15:33, 12 January 2014 (UTC).

Please comment on Talk:Broadway (New York City)

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Please comment on Talk:Bangladesh Liberation War

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Misplaced Pages:MOSFOLLOW listed at Redirects for discussion

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Please comment on Talk:Riza Aziz

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Please comment on Template talk:Height

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Please comment on Talk:Outrage (2009 film)

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Please comment on Talk:Yamanoue no Okura

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Please comment on Talk:Ronan Farrow

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Please comment on Template talk:Europe topic

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Please comment on Talk:Euromaidan

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A little help required.

Hi,

I'm a special educator working in a deaf school in Tura, Meghalaya, India. I'm doing a project on Sign Languages to help out the Deaf community here understand their roots. I don't have access to Project Muse and there is this book which I need - Deafway : Perspectives from the International Conference on Deaf Culture.

http://muse.jhu.edu/books/9781563682032

I work in an institution, where they can't afford to subscribe to Project Muse. If you could help me this, I'll be really grateful.

Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pallavi.tura (talk • contribs) 10:29, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

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D-R party RM

Perhaps you can check this out. La crème de la crème (talk) 03:30, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

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John A. Shaw

Hi there, several years ago, you were involved with the John A. Shaw article, and expressed some concern about it being POV. Well, the page is still quite problematic, and I happen to be working on behalf of Mr. Shaw, so I've just posted a request about a problem with the introduction. (You can find my request here.) Perhaps you could help? Let me know if you find a moment to look at it. Best, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 22:28, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Slavic speakers of Greek Macedonia

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Please comment on Talk:The Weeknd

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Please join the discussion on Talk:Glengarry Glen Ross (film)

Hello! I am soliciting comments for an RfC that is currently open on the "Glengarry Glen Ross (film)" page. There is disagreement about where the film was set (New York vs. Chicago).

One of the issues is whether it is original research to cite to elements in the film itself (including props, dialogue, and a statement in the end credits that it was "filmed on location in New York City") to establish setting.

Response so far in the RfC has been mixed. Comments welcome! Xanthis (talk) 13:20, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Columbia Township, Lorain County, Ohio

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Oriya->OdiaOdia-2015-06-25T13:28:00.000Z">

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Oriya_language#Requested_move_17_June_2015. Thanks. Cpt.a.haddock (talk) 13:28, 25 June 2015 (UTC)Odia"> Odia">

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Hello

I do not seem to have seen you around for ages, so it is nice to know that you are still here. Deb (talk) 09:55, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Seconded. Hope you decide to make more than the occasional visit. --regentspark (comment) 03:16, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
Let me know if there is anything interesting. The usual level of Wikidiocy seems to be taking over. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:53, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Melbourne

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Moving Burma to Myanmar - new 2015 poll

You participated in a Burma RM in the past so I'm informing you of another RM. I hope I didn't miss anyone. New move attempt of Burma>Myanmar Fyunck(click) (talk) 08:54, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

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Have some cheese

Nice to see you again — have a cheese plate! Bishonen | talk 19:28, 18 August 2015 (UTC).

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September 2015

Information icon Hello, I'm Kashish Arora. I wanted to let you know that I undid one or more of your recent contributions to Orion (mythology) because it did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Kashish Arora (talk) 05:15, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

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Something that may interest you

Hello Pmanderson,

There is a discussion going on at Talk:Quran that may interest you.


Bobby Martnen (talk) 03:03, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Shaun King (activist)

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Heya

Didn't realize you were back. About time. I ran across your off-WP sig at the WHATWG wiki the other day (though I think it was on an old post), and was wondering if you'd return here. Will be nice to have another "MoS is important" voice around again, even if we sometimes don't agree on every quibble.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅ᴥⱷ≼  01:31, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm not sure how much I will be discussing MOS. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 03:06, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
Understood.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅ᴥⱷ≼  01:04, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

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Hello

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mathematics

In this 2009 edit, you inserted "Both senses can be found in Plato", citing (in addition to OED) Liddell and Scott for "learning, study, science, and additionally came to have the narrower and more technical meaning 'mathematical study', even in Classical times."

Perhaps I misread, but there it looks like L&S cites Plato for 'fond of learning' (Timaeus) and 'scientific' (Sophist) but cites Aristotle for 'mathematical' (Nicomachean Ethics, Metaphysics). I don't have OED on-hand but wanted to check the L&S cite. Thx, Humanengr (talk) 19:32, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, I misread the OED, which ascribes the concept to Plato (Republic 510c), but the word is Aristotle's. I shall emend. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:38, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

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Sarehole

It was not close to the boundary (a good mile in any direction), Carpenter is not a reliable source for geography, and nor was Tolkien. I'll wait 24 hours then revert you, and continue doing so. TharkunColl (talk) 00:45, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Zetterstein, who is a source for Worcestershire, says "close" - and he saw a map. And a mile seems close to me. Now find a source for your ownership. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:48, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
Either it was in Worcestershire, or it wasn't. And it was. You are either wrong or right. And you're wrong. Please check out the map I provided for you, if you can be bothered to find out the postcode for Sarehole Mill. To repeat: literary biographers are not reliable sources for administrative geography. TharkunColl (talk) 00:54, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

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Proposed deletion of Duke of Denver

Notice

The article Duke of Denver has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Fails WP:GNG.

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Jstor personalisation

Let's check that. Pick the topic, and let's do two independent searches using an identical keyword list. It would be interesting to see if Jstor performs personalized search. Frankly, I doubt it does, because its search engine looks much less advanced than google or google.scholar, but it would be interesting to check. I suggest two topics: WWII history (my search history in that area is very long), and something about, for example, history of Spain, or Buddhism or history of medieval Germany (I never used Jstor for that). Propose two search phrases, and let's compare first 10 references.--Paul Siebert (talk) 05:57, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Here are my results:
First: Zaloga, The Journal of Military History, Vol. 62, No. 3 (Jul., 1998), pp. 706-708
Second: Thomas, Journal of Contemporary History, Vol. 22, No. 2, Intelligence Services during the Second World War (Apr., 1987), pp. 261-301
Third: The Journal of Military History, Vol. 59, No. 1 (Jan., 1995), pp. 191-197
Fourth: Jahrbücher für Geschichte Osteuropas, Neue Folge, Bd. 63, H. 4, Feldherren und Soldaten: Russische Konzeptionen des Kriegshelden im 19. und frühen 20. Jahrhundert (2015), pp. 545-572
Fifth: Masha Cerovic Seeking Peace in the Wake of War: Europe, 1943-1947, Amsterdam University Press (2015)
First:Reformation: Luther and the Protestant Revolt. Review by: Albrecht Classen. Die Unterrichtspraxis / Teaching German, Vol. 36, No. 1 (Spring, 2003), pp. 114-115
Second:Studies in the Reformation: Luther to Hooker by W. D. J. Cargill Thompson, C. W. Dugmore. Review by: Cecile Zinberg Church History, Vol. 51, No. 4 (Dec., 1982), pp. 459-460
Third:Reformation Principle and Practice. Essays in Honour of A. G. Dickens by Peter Newman Brooks. Studies in the Reformation: Luther to Hooker by W. D. J. Cargill Thompson, C. W. Dugmore. Review by: Christopher Haigh. The English Historical Review, Vol. 97, No. 385 (Oct., 1982), pp. 846-848
Fourth: Thurman L. Smith. The Sixteenth Century Journal, Vol. 20, No. 2 (Summer, 1989), pp. 183-201
Fifth: Thomas A. Fudge. The Sixteenth Century Journal, Vol. 34, No. 2, Marriage in Early Modern Europe (Summer, 2003), pp. 319-345
Do you get the same results?--Paul Siebert (talk) 17:29, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

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For editors

Dear editor Pmanderson,

I am professor of theoretical physics and hope you are PhD as well. My russian students are very dissapointed to know that the article "Fock symmetry of hydrogen" is removed (redirected to "Laplace-Runge- Lenz vector"). I don't want to edit and critize the article . It is of high quality and well written.

Nevertheless, author did not read Fock's original paper. It is a reason why the basic content in section "Fock symmetry" doesn't concern to the subject totally and why mine separate article is written. I will allow myself to point out following grounds for the new article:

  • Fock theory is done for the momentum space where Laplace-Runge-Lenz vector is nonexistent. Why :author does consider it there?
  • The Schrodinger equation in momentum space is integral one,
  • Fock theory is applied to integral equation that is not discussed in the section,
  • Fock's symmetry is mathematical result for momentum space turned into 3-D sphere.

Physical interpretation is valid in physical coordinate space only. So,following words from the section are inaccurate-"Vladimir Fock showed that the quantum mechanical bound Kepler problem is equivalent to the problem of a free particle confined to a three-dimensional unit-sphere in four dimensional space". Here,reader is deceived. No free particle in any physical space here in the problem. Fock doesn't give such interpretation.

Kindly try to calm my students and restore my article "Fock symmetry in theory of hydrogen". I would appreciate Yours help to compose perfect american English as far as I am not graduated from Princeton University as probably editor who removed the article.

Sincerely Yours

EfimovSP (talk) 19:19, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Kwami

Me and another editor are experiencing gatekeeping issues from this user. What can you tell me about your experiences with him? He seems to have a penchant for removing valid maintenance tags without resolving the problem, ignores talk page discussions while repeatedly reverting the article, and other bad editing habits. Unless you're avoiding him for some reason (I know these things can happen), would you mind watchlisting Enochian and Decipherment of rongorongo? Skyerise (talk) 19:53, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

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Happy New Year, Pmanderson!

Happy New Year!

Pmanderson,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Misplaced Pages.
Abishe (talk) 14:42, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Abishe (talk) 14:42, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

CfD nomination at Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 September 5 § Greek mythology by region

A category or categories you have created have been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 September 5 § Greek mythology by region on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mclay1 (talk) 12:29, 5 September 2024 (UTC)