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== Recommandation == |
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== Recommandation == |
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For a good reference I would recommend "Tantra in Tibet" by Tsongkapa with forward by His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama. Too often in popular Western culture, the practice of Tantra is confused with or too overtly linked with sexual practices. Sexual practices are used in some reputable traditions, but only come late in advance training via a compassionately established relationship. Such sexual practices are first preceded with rigorous step by step practices of energy exchange methods that are developed and mastered over time with one's tantric partner. Trantra is not sex, good tantric practice with a partner does not require sex, and the incorrect or inappropriate use of attempting to couple sexual practice with a partner can cause more harm that good. One's right intentions must always be to bring good to those we encounter and to the world as a whole. Remember always that this is the 'secret mantra', or maybe more accurately the 'private manta' of compassion with our tantric partner. Most Compassionately, Sigung Dan. |
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For a good reference I would recommend "Tantra in Tibet" by Tsongkapa with forward by His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama. Too often in popular Western culture, the practice of Tantra is confused with or too overtly linked with sexual practices. Sexual practices are used in some reputable traditions, but only come late in advance training via a compassionately established relationship. Such sexual practices are first preceded with rigorous step by step practices of energy exchange methods that are developed and mastered over time with one's tantric partner. Tantra is not sex, good tantric practice with a partner does not require sex, and the incorrect or inappropriate use of attempting to couple sexual practice with a partner can cause more harm that good. One's right intentions must always be to bring good to those we encounter and to the world as a whole. Remember always that this is the 'secret mantra', or maybe more accurately the 'private manta' of compassion with our tantric partner. Most Compassionately, Sigung Dan. |
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== Bhattacharyya book == |
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@VictoriaGrayson, {{ping|Redtigerxyz}} There are two cites for N. N. Bhattacharyya, but they have the same isbn, as the 1982 version. Is there and has anyone seen the first and the "2nd edition"? This article needs some work, both in the main section and the lead. Have a look at what other tertiary sources have to say: and . @VG/@R/others: if your schedule permits, could you please look at the summary and references cited in the David Gray's Oxford source and update this article? {{ping|Joshua Jonathan}}: your thoughts and suggestions? ] (]) 19:08, 14 October 2016 (UTC) |
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:No. Tantra is such an incredibly complex topic; I know hardly anything about it. ] -] 04:03, 15 October 2016 (UTC) |
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==Etymology== |
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The etymology of the word - which is very meaningful as well as Tan Tra - The body+instrument. The body as the instrument for God realisation, just like Mantra - The mind as an instrument. And Yantra - another related discipline. |
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Can we have someone to look this up. Thanks. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 20:04, 11 November 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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==Not relialble== |
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Can we discuss here why the text is not reliable --] (]) 19:44, 6 February 2017 (UTC) |
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:He isn't a scholar.<span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">]<sup>]</sup></span> 22:46, 6 February 2017 (UTC) |
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::I have restored the article to the version by @VictoriaGrayson. The Aurobindo text is a hundred year old book, and there has been a lot of WP:RS on tantra in last 40 years. Pages 42-43 are not stating what you added (such as the stuff on Purusha). Rather, it is Yoga context discussion. The article already covers the various meanings of Tantra and the Vedic context. Also, rawattractionmagazine.com is non-RS (whoever added it). ] (]) 23:19, 6 February 2017 (UTC) |
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== Confusing disagreements == |
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::: Why don't you delete the topic itself because it is so old!, I see that there is preconcieved notions and vigor to protect one's notion , as any pecular changes to known boundries would destabilize ones "I" eventually leading to a sensation of "no purpose" :) ] (]) 08:18, 9 February 2017 (UTC) |
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Early on there is criticism about the Western perception of tantra and even the claim that it is an invention of orientalist views. It then becomes unclear whether the following sections are building off the Western definition or the critical definition- assuming there is one. What I'm getting at is that the defining of terms is unclear and confuses just what the individual sections, especially the history, are supporting. If that makes sense. I had a vague idea of what tantra means, and I clicked on the link from the article on Yamantaka, described as a "tantric" deity. I can't say I understand exactly what defines a "tantric deity" after reading this article that to say "'tantra' isn't a valid category at all, but here are a chronology of things wrongly associated with this erroneous category." ] (]) 23:31, 29 December 2021 (UTC) |
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:::And you can download actuall book here and read page 42-43 about purusha, but I see no point in further discussion. ] (]) 08:22, 9 February 2017 (UTC) |
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{{od}} |
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There is a difference between a "very old source" and "very old topic". We can't be unduly or exclusively highlighting archaic 100+ years old WP:SPS style interpretation, when later peer reviewed scholarship and reviews are available, and the mainstream scholarship has moved further in its understanding based on additionally discovered manuscripts, discounting of unauthentic texts, further studies and such. ] (]) 09:59, 9 February 2017 (UTC) |
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== Article too long & confusing == |
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:: What you are saying is particular true to scientific discoveries where we have with time have better understanding of things also may be more detailed information. but this is relatively not applicable to the topic what we are talking about as it is not a objective truth of things. but the topic in question as you see it, with time as always been tried to be applied to make sence for that period of time, and has been considerably diluted & reduced (my opinion) , but its essence does not lie in time bound interpretation nor in evedential analysis (unlike Archeology or Anthropology) but in the hidden truths, sorry this is also as i have seen the downfall of western view on Indian topics , yes you can have a deep analysis of each things are and try to summarise and try to make sence, but sorry this will not bring about the answer here but will bring about mere reduction of things to "no valuenes" . ] (]) 12:29, 10 February 2017 (UTC) |
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Dear all contributors, i find the article is too long & complex to even start with, we need to split them into Tantra Hinduism & Tantra Buddhism, kindly let me know your thoughts ] (]) 11:45, 26 November 2023 (UTC) |
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::: You may be assuming that we have means to know history / religious concepts / past society / past culture, related to tantra or something else, beyond material evidence (archeology e.g.) or literary evidence (manuscripts e.g.). You may also be assuming that either of these evidence do not get corrupted or have not been corrupted or there is no need for any further scholarship for "better understanding" or critical cross examination since Aurobindo and others told everything already. We disagree. Let us avoid WP:FORUM-y debate here, nor ignore wikipedia's content guidelines. FWIW, a text by Aurobindo published by Aurobindo Ashram is a non-peer reviewed SPS style publication, that is also very old. All that makes it non-RS. ] (]) 10:06, 11 February 2017 (UTC) |
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== Radha Tantra is not a Pancaratrik text == |
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:you have every right to assume that i assumed thats why i stated in the beginning that no use in discussion and again thanks for keeping everything under control!! barnstar for saving the day :) --] (]) 19:35, 11 February 2017 (UTC) |
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"The main Vaiṣṇava tradition that is associated with tantra is the Pañcharatra. This tradition produced a number of tantric texts including Radha tantra and Lakshmi tantra, but most of the other tantras are lost." |
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== Useful Infographic == |
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While Lakshmi tantra is a recognised as a bona fide Pancaratrik text, Radha tantra is not. It should be removed by the editor. ] (]) 01:07, 1 February 2024 (UTC) |
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Hello, I found a useful Infographic about Tantra. Maybe it could fit to the article. |
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http://metamonks.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/tantra-infographic-web-new.jpg |
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:Even the entry for Radha tantra acknowledges that it is not a Vaisnava text. |
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I found it here: http://omooni.com/blog/how-to-practice-tantra-ultimate-beginners-guide/ <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 13:54, 23 August 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:"The Radha Tantra is a Shakta text, despite its direct association with the Vaishnavite deities Radha and Krishna." ] (]) 01:09, 1 February 2024 (UTC) |
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== How could we help a reader coming in blind to navigate this topic? == |
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There are a lot of complaints about this article being too esoteric (ironically) but I feel like it is a sign that ignorant WP readers who are wandering their way through words from Hindu or Buddhist philosophy that they half recognize are not being served by this page. Having read the article myself, also with no background knowledge on this or related subjects, I can sympathize with their confusion and could determine the exact series of article links a reader might take while attempting to better understand the foundations of these topics, only to end up deeper in the weeds instead. |
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==Daoism has nothing to do with Tantra== |
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This is not my specialty and at giving non-specialist readers who bounce off of this article to a place they might be better served by including (generalist) ] in the lead was reverted. Fair enough but it doesn't solve the problem that spurred that change. I have considered altering the linked article ]'s header to make the link to ] more clearly visible but I couldn't think of how to frame such a thing. How else might this article be improved for the benefit of readers coming in with no knowledge of the intricacies of Asian esoterica without damaging its usefulness as a very detailed article? Is there a related article, section of a wider article, an expanded Simple English article or anything else that could be linked somewhere easily noticeable that would better serve generalist readers coming in blind? ] (]) 02:37, 19 October 2024 (UTC) |
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I am always frightened by the ignorance of western scholars when they write anything about Daoism (or Shinto).In fact daosit practices are attested for at least some thousand years before any contact could have happened between India and China: one has just to read carefully Lao Zi and Zhuang Zi. Moreover, even though they indeed show some similarities in principles and practice, they are also essentially different in approach, theory and concrete practices, as anyone acquainted with them both can tell: e.g. in daoist alchemy the opening of the central channel is just the first step of a very complex and long process.] (]) 02:39, 12 July 2018 (UTC) |
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For a good reference I would recommend "Tantra in Tibet" by Tsongkapa with forward by His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama. Too often in popular Western culture, the practice of Tantra is confused with or too overtly linked with sexual practices. Sexual practices are used in some reputable traditions, but only come late in advance training via a compassionately established relationship. Such sexual practices are first preceded with rigorous step by step practices of energy exchange methods that are developed and mastered over time with one's tantric partner. Tantra is not sex, good tantric practice with a partner does not require sex, and the incorrect or inappropriate use of attempting to couple sexual practice with a partner can cause more harm that good. One's right intentions must always be to bring good to those we encounter and to the world as a whole. Remember always that this is the 'secret mantra', or maybe more accurately the 'private manta' of compassion with our tantric partner. Most Compassionately, Sigung Dan.
Early on there is criticism about the Western perception of tantra and even the claim that it is an invention of orientalist views. It then becomes unclear whether the following sections are building off the Western definition or the critical definition- assuming there is one. What I'm getting at is that the defining of terms is unclear and confuses just what the individual sections, especially the history, are supporting. If that makes sense. I had a vague idea of what tantra means, and I clicked on the link from the article on Yamantaka, described as a "tantric" deity. I can't say I understand exactly what defines a "tantric deity" after reading this article that to say "'tantra' isn't a valid category at all, but here are a chronology of things wrongly associated with this erroneous category." Tonsil Crypt Ossuary (talk) 23:31, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
Dear all contributors, i find the article is too long & complex to even start with, we need to split them into Tantra Hinduism & Tantra Buddhism, kindly let me know your thoughts Shrikanthv (talk) 11:45, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
"The main Vaiṣṇava tradition that is associated with tantra is the Pañcharatra. This tradition produced a number of tantric texts including Radha tantra and Lakshmi tantra, but most of the other tantras are lost."
There are a lot of complaints about this article being too esoteric (ironically) but I feel like it is a sign that ignorant WP readers who are wandering their way through words from Hindu or Buddhist philosophy that they half recognize are not being served by this page. Having read the article myself, also with no background knowledge on this or related subjects, I can sympathize with their confusion and could determine the exact series of article links a reader might take while attempting to better understand the foundations of these topics, only to end up deeper in the weeds instead.
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
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