| Revision as of 20:08, 7 November 2018 view sourceMervyn Emrys (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users2,856 edits →Your talk page is being edited: new section← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 07:54, 15 January 2025 view source MediaWiki message delivery (talk | contribs)Bots3,141,424 edits →The Signpost: 15 January 2025: new sectionTag: MassMessage delivery | ||
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| {{Notice|1={{Center|1='''Jimbo welcomes your comments and updates – he has an ].'''<br /> | {{Notice|1={{Center|1='''Jimbo welcomes your comments and updates – he has an ].'''<br /> | ||
| '''He holds the founder's seat on the ]'s ].<br />The current ] occupying "community-selected" seats are ], ] and ].<br />The Wikimedia Foundation's Lead Manager of Trust and Safety is ].'''}}}} | '''He holds the founder's seat on the ]'s .<br />The current ] occupying "community-selected" seats are ], ], ] and ].<br />The Wikimedia Foundation's Lead Manager of Trust and Safety is ].'''}}}} | ||
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| {{Press | |||
| | subject = talkpage | |||
| | author = Matthew Gault | |||
| | title = Misplaced Pages Editors Very Mad About Jimmy Wales' NFT of a Misplaced Pages Edit | |||
| | org = ] | |||
| | url = https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjbkvm/wikipedia-editors-very-mad-about-jimmy-waless-nft-of-a-wikipedia-edit | |||
| | date = 8 December 2021 | |||
| | quote = The trouble began when Wales posted an announcement about the auction on his user talk page—a kind of message board where users communicate directly with each other. | |||
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| ==]== | |||
| == About Flickr == | |||
| ] | |||
| ] | |||
| Happy New Year Jimbo!!! I hope all is well with you and your team. | |||
| Could you or your page watchers help me with ]? The draft has been declined and tagged up. It was then deleted years ago. I had it restored today after I came across one of his photos. I think he and his photography are fascinating for capturing aspects of New Zealand's transportation and industrial history. His work is in museum and library collections. At least one of his photographs has been used in a book. He photographed Maori sites. | |||
| ], standing beside a collection of Maori carvings, including two fire-screens, carved by her father Albert Percy Godber]] | |||
| I'm sorry I haven't been able to work the draft up enough to get it admitted to mainspace. It does make me wonder about what we do and don't include, our notability criteria, Articles for Creation (AfC) process, and collaborative ethos. Thanks so much for any help or guidance you can offer! Have a great 2025 and beyond. Thanks again. ] (]) 17:57, 4 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| :If Godber is not ], which is what the draft reviewers say, then Wikipedians can't fix that. ] (]) 09:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| ::] is he "notable" and should we have an entry on him? ] (]) 17:26, 7 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| :::I dunno, but ] wrote that the draft did not show significant coverage about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject at that point. ] (]) 19:37, 7 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| ] | |||
| ::::And this a request to revisit his finding. We have a photographer from more than 100 years ago who documented areas of New Zealand's North Island. We have his work in a National Library collection. We have his work discussed as iconic for one of his Maori related photographs. We have his work revisited in a 2018 exhibition. We have descriptions of him related to his photographs, his career, and we have the photos themselves documenting the areas industries, sites, infrastructure from more than 100 years ago. If I was satisfied with the previous conclusions I would not be here. So I ask again, should we have an entry on this subject? Should we just attribute his photos where we use them to an unlinked name with no explanation or discussion of who he was? I think the answer is clear, and I wanted to hear Jimbo's opinion. I am aware of what was previously stated. Years have passed and I believe it's time to reevaluate and consider. I also think it's worth reflecting on our article creations processes more generally and how we apply our conception of "notability". ] (]) 23:33, 8 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| *Godber's photographs include "views of the ] including large numbers of cars traveling to ], and the ]. Another group of images relate to a holiday at the ] Homestead in ] with scenes of farm life, including ], ] sheep, and farm buildings. During their stay in the South Island Godber also took photographs of Dunedin (including the ], ], ], the ], and the Hillside Railway Workshops); ] (including the Invercargill Railway Workshops); Stewart Island, ], ], ], ] and ]. Various railway stations in Canterbury and Otago, the ], and the Rosslyn Mills. Godber was a volunteer fireman with the Petone Fire Brigade with the album including views of the building, groups of firemen, fire engines and other fire fighting equipment, and a building in Petone damaged by fire. In his work with New Zealand Railways, mainly at the Petone Railway Workshops, he took interior photographs of various buildings, including the Machine Shop and finishing benches, the engine room, lathes, boilers, and fitting shops. He also took photographs of many of the steam engines that were built and worked on at the workshops. One scene shows a group of men watching a fight. Many images show his interest in logging railways, particularly in the ], ], ] area. Scenes of logging camps, various methods of transporting logs including bullock teams, logging trains, and dams created and then tripped to send logs down by river, and timber mills. Other topics covered in Godber's photographs are scenes at Maori ] and meeting houses, with some of the people identified; Maori carving and rafter designs; beekeeping, and gold mining." ] (]) 23:52, 8 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| *It's hard to choose which photos to share. Historic views areas, industries, bridges, natural features, railways and bridges, crafts. to his photos on Misplaced Pages Commons. Many already illustrate our entries on various subjects. ] (]) 00:01, 9 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| :: If you really want to help him, get a couple stories published about him in newspapers. Notability here will follow. ] (]) 01:23, 11 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| == Just wanted to say == | |||
| Maybe the bot just took it away before you could respond. I don't know: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&oldid=866850610#Flickr_is_about_to_die. | |||
| You have created something valuable to everyone on the Internet. I'm sure you get this a lot, but thank you. <br>It may sound weird, but Misplaced Pages has helped me through some tough times. We can never thank you enough for this sometimes infighting, sometimes peaceful, sometimes divided, but always united community You are the backbone of the <s>cabal of editors</s> <b>thriving community</b> that is Misplaced Pages. | |||
| I think this is pretty important. As you do have an open door policy, a simple "ack" would go a long way, even if you think Wikimedia can't or shouldn't have a role in this. I'd just like to know you got the message. - ] 08:10, 3 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| I wish I could give you a BarnMilkyWay but no one's come up with that, apparently. (]) | (PS: Have a good day) 00:49, 6 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| == == | |||
| :The proposal is ''Free members with more than 1,000 photos or videos uploaded to Flickr have until Tuesday, January 8, 2019, to upgrade to Pro or download content over the limit. After January 8, 2019, members over the limit will no longer be able to upload new photos to Flickr. After February 5, 2019, free accounts that contain over 1,000 photos or videos will have content actively deleted -- starting from oldest to newest date uploaded -- to meet the new limit.'' I'm not sure if this counts as a major tragedy, given the large number of dubious quality and dubiously licensed images that have been imported from Flickr to Commons over the years and the time that has had to be spent on sorting it out. In practice, it would affect only free Flickr users who had uploaded more than 1000 images. Overall, it is best for CC images to be uploaded to Commons directly rather than taking a detour via Flickr.--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 17:09, 3 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| For the interested. ] (]) 10:58, 6 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| {{multiple image|total_width=300|image1=Jennifer Lopez at GLAAD Media Awards (cropped).jpg|caption1=Bye Jennifer|image2=Academy Award-winning actor Morgan Freeman narrates for the opening ceremony (26904746425) (cropped).jpg|caption2=Bye Morgan|image3=Drake at the Velvet Underground - 2017 (35986086223) (cropped).jpg|caption3=Bye Drake}} | |||
| ::At least Flickr's ''The Commons'' (selected Flickr accounts with historical public domain images, not to be confused with Wikimedia Commons or Creative Commons) appears to be exempted. But we will still be losing a massive amount of images. And not just crappy ones. For example, these three are used in infoboxes. - ] 19:12, 4 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::Since ArchiverBot is extremely aggressive here, would it be acceptable to put {{tl|DNAU}} on this? I'm perfectly happy with Jimbo deciding to archive this himself, all I'm really asking for is that he knows about the issue. Which doesn't happen if ArchiverBot throws it away unread. - ] 23:02, 5 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :Summary: {{tq|This document intends to show the problematic situation in Hebrew Misplaced Pages (hewiki), and provide evidence that it has been overtaken by a group of mostly religious and nationalist editors, who prevent others from achieving higher permissions while promoting their own allies.}} –] <small>(])</small> 22:38, 6 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| :::It is worth noting that the once hugely popular ] and ] no longer offer any free accounts. ] would have caused uproar if it had done this, but it has moved towards a ] model similar to ] and other cloud storage services. It isn't realistic for Flickr to offer unlimited free hosting, and nor is it realistic for Commons to be a mirror of Flickr.--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 18:32, 7 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| == Happy new year == | |||
| ::::I think that the key takeaway here is that we cannot expect ''any'' for-profit web hosting to stay up indefinitely. ]. ]. ]. All dead. If a commercial site has content that is valuable to Misplaced Pages and is licensed under a compatible license, we should copy it to commons, wikidata, wikibooks, etc. ''now'', before it disappears. -- ] (]) 19:29, 7 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| Good days, Jimbo. I'd like to say that Chinese Misplaced Pages is introducing ARBCOM System currently, since Arbcom on this project, and in fact all the project is originated from the idea of yours, do you have any opinion for that? Any hints, advice or suggestions? ] 15:43, 7 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| == Incorrect definitions and references throughout Misplaced Pages of/to various countries and territories == | |||
| == == | |||
| I have found a widespread problem on Misplaced Pages that I think should be addressed. The official definition of the United States is obviously the fifty states and D.C., yet in the first sentence in the article on ], it says the country is also composed of its territories. The total population of the US is defined as the fifty states and D.C. There are also endless instances in US law and elsewhere of phrases similar to "the US and/or US territories" showing that the US and its territories are different. There is not one official US government definition including US territories as part of the country, it is only the 50 states and D.C. The much bigger problem is that it is not only in the ] article, it is in various other related articles, and there are articles of other countries, other countries' territories, and related articles throughout Misplaced Pages that have definitions and references that differ from the official definitions from the respective governments. There was a mediation discussion here https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_mediation/United_States which resulted in the opinions of some participants overruling official definitions. But, as I said, I am posting here because the problem is much more widespread than just one popular article. ] (]) 17:57, 3 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| That doesn't sound good. From '']''. ] (]) 09:37, 8 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Wait until after the U S. election:''' Thank you for taking time to research this widespread problem. The fix, at this point, might be to start another ] to get a new, informed consensus. Part of the problem might be the election political parties which, for decades, have included the ], such as ] or ], when voting to select the party nominees for the next general election. Consequently, it might be difficult, during a U.S. election period, to get active Wikipedians to reject those territories as not within the U.S., as evidenced by no ] in Puerto Rico or the ]. -] (]) 12:01, 4 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Not our problem'''. The starts "'''Geographically, and as a general reference, the United States (short form of the official name, United States of America) includes all areas considered under the sovereignty of the United States, but does not include leased areas'''", but then provides three definitions none of which cover some well known areas considered under the sovereignty of the United State but not leased. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 00:15, 5 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| Someone absentmindedly editing a webpage with no reference to an official decision does not overrule the rest of the government. That person probably did not even realize that their definition included territories. ] (]) 03:02, 5 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| Mr. Wales, wouldn't it be for the best to make a Misplaced Pages policy concerning the official definitions of any and all countries? ] (]) 04:17, 5 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| : This sounds like a deeply terrible idea. We have a working mechanism for handling this, it's called "local consensus" and it does a really good job. --] (]) 14:48, 6 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :It is extremely odd that you do not cite any sources for your apparently baseless assertions. For example, the law of the United States provides this definition in 8 U.S Code § 1101(a)(38): "The term “United States” . . . when used in a geographical sense, means the continental United States, Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Guam, the Virgin Islands of the United States, and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands.". That belies your assertions. Even assuming, as is likely, one who bothers to look at sources will find many ways to define the 'United States' in different contexts, by policy, ], Misplaced Pages is not a dictionary, we cover the entirety of a topic, and we would not just use the "official" government line anyway (we are not the government). -- ] (]) 16:30, 6 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| Alan, you obviously are not a lawyer or knowledgeable about law. Those are definitions for use within a certain text of law, so the parameters do not have to be stated every time the term is stated. Here are some examples of this in the same law - the term - “parent” does not include the natural father of the child if the father has disappeared or abandoned or deserted the child or if the father has in writing irrevocably released the child for emigration and adoption. - and - apparently the definition of the word "child" should be changed also, according to you, referring either to age or "someone's child" - The term “child” means an unmarried person under twenty-one years of age - (in the same law)https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title8/html/USCODE-2011-title8-chap12-subchapI-sec1101.htm ] (]) 07:45, 7 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :Being discussed at ]. ] (]) 10:08, 8 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| == Saving assets == | |||
| ::Thanks! ] (]) 11:11, 8 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| ::Also discussed at ] and ]. ] (]) 19:07, 8 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| Jimbo, could I ask you please to respond to from {{u|Tryptofish}}? | |||
| Jimbo - what would it hurt if, instead of indef blocking or site banning a longterm quality editor - one of GA/FA/DYK caliber - over a behavioral issue, the acting admin gives them the choice to serve 6 mos (or whatever #) helping reduce the backlogs at ] and ] (unless the dispute is in those areas), or some other reassignment in an effort to retain that editor? Does it sound foolish to you? <sup>]]]</sup> 01:54, 4 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :... it's not just if you've edited about Israel-Palestine. It could be if you've edited anything about climate and fossil fuels, gender, immigration, vaccines, and of course, American politics. I doubt that they have the bandwidth to actually identify and harass every editor who could possibly be seen as editing information that goes against a MAGA POV, but they will likely find some easily identified targets, whom they will use to "set an example", as a way of instilling fear in our editing community. I fully expect that, in the coming months, {{u|Jimbo Wales}} will be hauled before a hostile and performative Congressional hearing, much in the manner of university presidents. I hope very much that he will be better prepared than ] was. | |||
| : Editors are not assets, they're people. And this is not a penal colony, it's an encyclopedia. I find this completely unworkable in every form. ] (], ]) 01:56, 4 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :Yeah, I know this is grim. But I believe the first step in dealing with this is to go into it with our eyes open, to know what we are dealing with, what motivates it. And, more than harming individual editors, the real objective of Heritage ''et al.'' is to instill fear in the rest of us. If we become too fearful to revert POV edits, they win. In a very real sense, we have to keep doing what we have been doing, and continue to be a reliable resource for NPOV information. --] (]) 18:54, 9 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| ::A penal colony doesn't give choices, and why do you think volunteering at NPP or AfC is punishment? That alone speaks volumes. <sup>]]]</sup> 02:45, 4 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ] (]) 05:33, 10 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| :::Complying with a ] of a forced reassignment reminds me of the Eastern Bloc usage of the word "volunteering". ''']<small> </small>]''' 03:20, 5 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::::They can suggest areas they're most comfortable working in as long as it separates them from the issues that caused the problem in the first place, so it is a choice between continuing to work as a volunteer, or they can sit it out per the indef and try to appeal later. I like how Alexis termed it below..."corvee"! <sup>]]]</sup> 22:56, 5 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :I'm dismayed at the notion that AfC and NPP, both places where we are specifically trying to help new contributors, are suitable places to confine editors with behavioural issues. ]] 02:00, 4 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::Well, it's a given that each case must be judged on the merits, Bradv, but any editor who has been volunteering here for any length of time knows AN/I is broken and that imperfections in the system do exist. Do you believe otherwise? I would think a longterm editor who has GA/FA/DYK promotions to their credit deserves some consideration, and hopefully it doesn't automatically mean they can never return to WP (we do have an appeal process) or if they are allowed to return, they are labeled for life because of a mistake they made and regret (we actually do have PAGs that protect against such treatment). As you probably know, we have had editors with -0- blocks bite newbies. <sup>]]]</sup> 02:43, 4 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :If the editor in question would be judged as capable of that, some form of corvee (it's not punishment, it's ]!), getting out of their comfort zone and deal with newbies may actually help with their behavioral issues. - ] 15:40, 4 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::It would certainly help to separate those intending to enhance WP from those who are here for other purposes. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px #B8B8B8;">]]]</span>''' 21:07, 4 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :::Thanking the first group and blocking the second would certainly separate them. I'm just saying. --] (]) 21:52, 4 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :Well, I fully agree that developments in terms of arguments and actions aimed at destroying trust in knowledge (and of course our specific interest, trust in Misplaced Pages) are extremely worrisome, particularly as I agree that for many who are doing it, the motive does appears to be the undermining of civic norms and democracy. I also agree with Tryptofish in a part that you didn't quote: "In a narrow sense, it's technically true that if you "out" yourself, there's no point in anyone else doing it. But once your identity is known, you become vulnerable to all of the kinds of real-life harassment that doxed people find themselves subjected to. It doesn't matter, in that regard, how they found out your identity." That's a sad balancing act that no Wikipedian should have to face. | |||
| == Open door policy == | |||
| :As a side note, I don't think that the reliability of the Heritage Foundation as a source is particularly related to these despicable actions. Whether they should be considered a reliable source in some matters is really unrelated to whether they hate us or not.--] (]) 14:14, 10 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| ::Suddenly ] going to court to get user-data seems like the model of gentlemanly behavior. ] (]) 11:51, 11 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| :::{{tq|That's a sad balancing act that no Wikipedian should have to face.}} Unfortunately, the scales have been inexorably slipping out from beneath the foundation's abilities or willingness to protect its volunteers for my entire wiki-career. There's no balancing force at work. The private equity community has made gadflies out of what we used to label reliable local news media; Alphabet and Meta are actively coopting precision, privacy, and the public domain, while attempting to minimize the effectiveness of good faith actors like Internet Archive. Now suddenly en.wikipedians are facing the sort of personal threats long experienced by volunteers at ru.wiki and zh.wiki. The forces now arrayed against free information don't need to be actively coordinating in order to rapidly bring us to 2+2=5 territory. Any established editor could reasonably see Western culture has been under relentless attack for a long time. Here comes the Heritage Foundation's leaks, hot off Heritage's bangup release of Project 2025, leaking articles through partisan outlets apparently intended to make it appear (in one case) the ADL's recent reliability downgrade at RSNP was anyone else's fault but the ADL's own writings and actions. The news of such activity appears to threaten the community members directly and personally. ] (]) 13:26, 11 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| == ] == | |||
| This is just something I noted. You have an open door policy, which I find admirable. It's however not very practical when it you combine it with both regular wikibreaks (at least not editing) up to two weeks ''and'' a talk page archiver setting of just one single day. The door is open but the office often empty, except for some WikiJaguars luring in the corners, waiting for prey. | |||
| Hey Mr. Wales, there's a discussion on ] about what image should be used on your Misplaced Pages entry. Figured you may want to chime in with personal opinion about the recent freely-licensed images of you that are presented, as there hasn't been much engagement there at the time of my post. <span style="background: cornsilk; padding: 3px;border:.5px solid salmon;">]]</span> 21:32, 14 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| Just an idea: appoint one or more active users to moderate your talk page. Let them put {{tls|DNAU}} on items they think you should at least skim over. - ] 22:42, 6 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :Jimbo has one of those "life" things you sometimes read about. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 23:37, 6 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::I know, and that's fine. But you can't effectively have both a life and an open door policy. It gives the illusion that Jimbo will actually listen if you ask something here, which doesn't seem to be the case. I know there are also people asking irrelevant questions on this page, but ArchiverBot doesn't discriminate. Guy Macon said "Also, Jimbo is well aware of how toe read an archive page", which I have no doubt about. But is Jimbo really going to read the archives? I doubt I would. And he doesn't have to. But if he doesn't, maybe it's time to end the open door policy. Or at least clarify he's often not actually behind that door. Putting a clerk in front of that door to filter messages that will actually affect Wikimedia may be more effective. The door could still be open to others, but without any guarantee Jimbo will actually read them. This open door policy in its current state appears to be deceptive. Misplaced Pages should be the last place for deception. If Jimbo actually ''does'' read every message, I apologize. In that case though, it would help to clarify that fact. - ] 07:53, 7 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :::I think it very rare that I miss anything. I read the page every day. Of course with a 24 hour expiry, I might miss something, but remember that things only expire if someone posts and no one responds within 24 hours, which happens quite rarely. So, I pretty much do read every message here, and so I accept your apology. :-) | |||
| :::Now, the question of whether I should answer more often is a good one. I think I answer pretty often, but I don't have stats on that. Often I don't answer because someone else has already answered a question effectively. Other times I don't answer because I see a discussion with multiple sides making reasonable points and I like to let reasonable people think together - I learn more that way than popping in to offer my own views, especially if I don't yet have a really firm view. | |||
| :::Many discussions turn on (at least) two different things: the facts in the specific case, and the principles. The principles are the thing I feel I have a good handle on - I've been doing this a long time and I've seen a lot of things happen, and I think my views are pretty reasonable and seasoned by experience. But the specific facts in any given case can vary widely, particularly when people come here to convince me of the wrongness of someone else. So I try to be slow about that sort of thing, and not comment unless and until I feel that I've got the measure of the facts.--] (]) 16:19, 7 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::::How do you feel about a three day expiry with seven threads minimum? I feel like people who don't want your input on questions asked of you specifically know they can just start new threads to keep you from answering. When is the last time you retrieved anything from your own archives? ] (]) 19:08, 7 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| == |
== ''The Signpost'': 15 January 2025 == | ||
| <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2025-01-15}} </div><!--Volume 21, Issue 1--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 07:54, 15 January 2025 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div> | |||
| Are you aware your talk page is being edited? A couple days ago I attempted to post a personal message to you about an idea I have for a possible new project, and requesting any comments you might have about it, but it was summarily deleted by User: Guy Macon before you could have a chance to read it. I posted the same idea on Larry Sanger's talk page with a similar result. I was accused of soapboxing for sending you an idea and requesting comments on it. Subsequently I've been threatened with a block, called a liar on my talk page, ridiculed on my talk page, an MfD nomination was filed to delete my sandbox, where my idea was placed for further refinement, a WP:BLP violation was proposed against me, somebody else was recruited to file an ANI complaint against me, and numerous insults were posted on my talk page. Yet no article was edited or created. I assumed edits to my proposal, if implemented, would have to be consistent with WP:BLP and WP:NPOV, and I have been stalked all over Misplaced Pages by this editor, who has left disparaging remarks everywhere I have left a message (including on the talk pages of Elonka and Coppertwig and others). | |||
| <!-- Message sent by User:JPxG@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Wikipedia_Signpost/Subscribe&oldid=1269316164 --> | |||
| I have made significant contributions to Misplaced Pages, including several Good Articles and many new articles, but I was driven out of Misplaced Pages ten years ago by an administrator who outed me--for the second time--and initiated uninvited contact with me via email at my place of employment> This was my first post returning to Misplaced Pages. So far, I can only surmise things have gotten worse, not better. So, before I leave again, I thought you should be informed about this incident. My initial message was sent to you and Sanger because the proposal is a large one, requiring a lot of time and editors to work on it, if it was accepted. I have no hope of that now, no hope of any productive editing on Misplaced Pages. Anyway, you should know somebody is deleting messages from your talk page before you can read them. Check the diffs. ] (]) 20:08, 7 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 07:54, 15 January 2025
| Welcome to my talk page. Please sign and date your entries by inserting ~~~~ at the end. Start a new talk topic. |
 | Jimbo welcomes your comments and updates – he has an open door policy. He holds the founder's seat on the Wikimedia Foundation's Board of Trustees. The current trustees occupying "community-selected" seats are Rosiestep, Laurentius, Victoria and Pundit. The Wikimedia Foundation's Lead Manager of Trust and Safety is Jan Eissfeldt. |
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Centralized discussion
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Albert Percy Godber
Happy New Year Jimbo!!! I hope all is well with you and your team.
Could you or your page watchers help me with Draft:Albert Percy Godber? The draft has been declined and tagged up. It was then deleted years ago. I had it restored today after I came across one of his photos. I think he and his photography are fascinating for capturing aspects of New Zealand's transportation and industrial history. His work is in museum and library collections. At least one of his photographs has been used in a book. He photographed Maori sites.
I'm sorry I haven't been able to work the draft up enough to get it admitted to mainspace. It does make me wonder about what we do and don't include, our notability criteria, Articles for Creation (AfC) process, and collaborative ethos. Thanks so much for any help or guidance you can offer! Have a great 2025 and beyond. Thanks again. FloridaArmy (talk) 17:57, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
- If Godber is not WP:NOTABLE, which is what the draft reviewers say, then Wikipedians can't fix that. Polygnotus (talk) 09:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
- user:Polygnotus is he "notable" and should we have an entry on him? FloridaArmy (talk) 17:26, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
- I dunno, but User:Sulfurboy wrote that the draft did not show significant coverage about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject at that point. Polygnotus (talk) 19:37, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
- user:Polygnotus is he "notable" and should we have an entry on him? FloridaArmy (talk) 17:26, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
- And this a request to revisit his finding. We have a photographer from more than 100 years ago who documented areas of New Zealand's North Island. We have his work in a National Library collection. We have his work discussed as iconic for one of his Maori related photographs. We have his work revisited in a 2018 exhibition. We have descriptions of him related to his photographs, his career, and we have the photos themselves documenting the areas industries, sites, infrastructure from more than 100 years ago. If I was satisfied with the previous conclusions I would not be here. So I ask again, should we have an entry on this subject? Should we just attribute his photos where we use them to an unlinked name with no explanation or discussion of who he was? I think the answer is clear, and I wanted to hear Jimbo's opinion. I am aware of what was previously stated. Years have passed and I believe it's time to reevaluate and consider. I also think it's worth reflecting on our article creations processes more generally and how we apply our conception of "notability". FloridaArmy (talk) 23:33, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
- Godber's photographs include "views of the Hutt Valley including large numbers of cars traveling to Trentham Racecourse, and the Hutt River. Another group of images relate to a holiday at the Mendip Hills Homestead in Canterbury, New Zealand with scenes of farm life, including haymaking, merino sheep, and farm buildings. During their stay in the South Island Godber also took photographs of Dunedin (including the Ross Reservoir, Otago Boys' High School, Seacliff Mental Hospital, the 1926 Dunedin Exhibition, and the Hillside Railway Workshops); Invercargill (including the Invercargill Railway Workshops); Stewart Island, Moeraki, Tuatapere, Waiau River, Oamaru and Port Chalmers. Various railway stations in Canterbury and Otago, the Burnside Iron Mills, and the Rosslyn Mills. Godber was a volunteer fireman with the Petone Fire Brigade with the album including views of the building, groups of firemen, fire engines and other fire fighting equipment, and a building in Petone damaged by fire. In his work with New Zealand Railways, mainly at the Petone Railway Workshops, he took interior photographs of various buildings, including the Machine Shop and finishing benches, the engine room, lathes, boilers, and fitting shops. He also took photographs of many of the steam engines that were built and worked on at the workshops. One scene shows a group of men watching a fight. Many images show his interest in logging railways, particularly in the Piha, Karekare, Anawhata area. Scenes of logging camps, various methods of transporting logs including bullock teams, logging trains, and dams created and then tripped to send logs down by river, and timber mills. Other topics covered in Godber's photographs are scenes at Maori marae and meeting houses, with some of the people identified; Maori carving and rafter designs; beekeeping, and gold mining." FloridaArmy (talk) 23:52, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
- It's hard to choose which photos to share. Historic views areas, industries, bridges, natural features, railways and bridges, crafts. Here's a link to his photos on Misplaced Pages Commons. Many already illustrate our entries on various subjects. FloridaArmy (talk) 00:01, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
- If you really want to help him, get a couple stories published about him in newspapers. Notability here will follow. Carrite (talk) 01:23, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
Just wanted to say
You have created something valuable to everyone on the Internet. I'm sure you get this a lot, but thank you.
It may sound weird, but Misplaced Pages has helped me through some tough times. We can never thank you enough for this sometimes infighting, sometimes peaceful, sometimes divided, but always united community You are the backbone of the cabal of editors thriving community that is Misplaced Pages.
I wish I could give you a BarnMilkyWay but no one's come up with that, apparently. (3OpenEyes's talk page. Say hi!) | (PS: Have a good day) 00:49, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
Requests for comment/Severe Problems in hewiki
For the interested. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:58, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
- Summary:
This document intends to show the problematic situation in Hebrew Misplaced Pages (hewiki), and provide evidence that it has been overtaken by a group of mostly religious and nationalist editors, who prevent others from achieving higher permissions while promoting their own allies.
–Novem Linguae (talk) 22:38, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
Happy new year
Good days, Jimbo. I'd like to say that Chinese Misplaced Pages is introducing ARBCOM System currently, since Arbcom on this project, and in fact all the project is originated from the idea of yours, do you have any opinion for that? Any hints, advice or suggestions? -Lemonaka 15:43, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
Scoop: Heritage Foundation plans to ‘identify and target’ Misplaced Pages editors
That doesn't sound good. From The Forward. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:37, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
- Being discussed at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (miscellaneous)#Heritage Foundation intending to "identify and target" editors. CMD (talk) 10:08, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
- Thanks! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:11, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
- Also discussed at Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5/Evidence#Edit_request and Misplaced Pages:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Heritage_Foundation_planning_to_dox_Wikipedia_editors. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:07, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
Jimbo, could I ask you please to respond to these concerns from Tryptofish?
- ... it's not just if you've edited about Israel-Palestine. It could be if you've edited anything about climate and fossil fuels, gender, immigration, vaccines, and of course, American politics. I doubt that they have the bandwidth to actually identify and harass every editor who could possibly be seen as editing information that goes against a MAGA POV, but they will likely find some easily identified targets, whom they will use to "set an example", as a way of instilling fear in our editing community. I fully expect that, in the coming months, Jimbo Wales will be hauled before a hostile and performative Congressional hearing, much in the manner of university presidents. I hope very much that he will be better prepared than Claudine Gay was.
- Yeah, I know this is grim. But I believe the first step in dealing with this is to go into it with our eyes open, to know what we are dealing with, what motivates it. And, more than harming individual editors, the real objective of Heritage et al. is to instill fear in the rest of us. If we become too fearful to revert POV edits, they win. In a very real sense, we have to keep doing what we have been doing, and continue to be a reliable resource for NPOV information. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:54, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
Sita Bose (talk) 05:33, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
- Well, I fully agree that developments in terms of arguments and actions aimed at destroying trust in knowledge (and of course our specific interest, trust in Misplaced Pages) are extremely worrisome, particularly as I agree that for many who are doing it, the motive does appears to be the undermining of civic norms and democracy. I also agree with Tryptofish in a part that you didn't quote: "In a narrow sense, it's technically true that if you "out" yourself, there's no point in anyone else doing it. But once your identity is known, you become vulnerable to all of the kinds of real-life harassment that doxed people find themselves subjected to. It doesn't matter, in that regard, how they found out your identity." That's a sad balancing act that no Wikipedian should have to face.
- As a side note, I don't think that the reliability of the Heritage Foundation as a source is particularly related to these despicable actions. Whether they should be considered a reliable source in some matters is really unrelated to whether they hate us or not.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:14, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
- Suddenly ANI going to court to get user-data seems like the model of gentlemanly behavior. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:51, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
That's a sad balancing act that no Wikipedian should have to face.
Unfortunately, the scales have been inexorably slipping out from beneath the foundation's abilities or willingness to protect its volunteers for my entire wiki-career. There's no balancing force at work. The private equity community has made gadflies out of what we used to label reliable local news media; Alphabet and Meta are actively coopting precision, privacy, and the public domain, while attempting to minimize the effectiveness of good faith actors like Internet Archive. Now suddenly en.wikipedians are facing the sort of personal threats long experienced by volunteers at ru.wiki and zh.wiki. The forces now arrayed against free information don't need to be actively coordinating in order to rapidly bring us to 2+2=5 territory. Any established editor could reasonably see Western culture has been under relentless attack for a long time. Here comes the Heritage Foundation's leaks, hot off Heritage's bangup release of Project 2025, leaking articles through partisan outlets apparently intended to make it appear (in one case) the ADL's recent reliability downgrade at RSNP was anyone else's fault but the ADL's own writings and actions. The news of such activity appears to threaten the community members directly and personally. BusterD (talk) 13:26, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
- Suddenly ANI going to court to get user-data seems like the model of gentlemanly behavior. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:51, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
Talk:Jimmy_Wales#Newer_2024_image?
Hey Mr. Wales, there's a discussion on Talk:Jimmy_Wales#Newer_2024_image? about what image should be used on your Misplaced Pages entry. Figured you may want to chime in with personal opinion about the recent freely-licensed images of you that are presented, as there hasn't been much engagement there at the time of my post. BarntToust 21:32, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
The Signpost: 15 January 2025
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