| Revision as of 03:40, 18 December 2018 editTsumiki (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers3,494 edits I fully embrace any investigation, but you're not obliged to that answerTag: Undo← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 18:39, 5 October 2021 edit undoPrimeBOT (talk | contribs)Bots2,066,063 editsm →Discretionary sanctions alert: Task 24: removal of a template following a TFDTag: AWB | ||
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| == November 2018 == | |||
| {{echo|R3ap3R}} If you are suspecting me of ], I am not. This is entirely my volunteering work and I have nothing to hide. If you think the article has issue, please specifically raise them under a new section on talk page and reach consensus on solving them. I may have a PoV, but I already sacrificed much of that when writing my proposal for lead, which was already approved by other editors on talk page. | |||
| "that focuses on freedom of speech without censorship" is merely a claim made by the entity of question and tautology, since "The site purported itself as an "alternative of Twitter" and "champions free speech"." already covered it, without first-party PoV under article tone. I was out on mobile and could not read notifications and I never intended on disruptive editing. I must protest your abuse of UW templates. ] (]/]) 22:27, 2 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :First, I don't think *you* have any COI. Second, the entire article fails WP:POV. Finally, WP is not a democracy... I don't need consensus to enforce the editing standards, been here for over 9 years, and the entire article will be rewritten with neutral sources shortly. Any further issues with my edits should be addressed to ArbCom. Thanks, ] (]) 22:34, 2 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::{{echo|R3ap3R}} You used a COI template, so who do you suspect of COI? This article is bluelocked so any editor attempting COI edits would be committing account-suicide. I support NPoV improvements and rewrites, but "that focuses on freedom of speech without censorship" does not appear to be one. It is an opinion that should not be stated as fact to remedy preceived PoV. At least you could use quotation marks per standard practice. Also consider that many sources contradicts Gab's self-promotion of "free speech", which should be another reason not to write it as a fact. I don't want to assume bad faith, but "any issues with my edits go to ArbCom" is really not a friendly statement. ArbCom need not to be bothered with when RfC could help. Thanks. ] (]/]) 23:10, 2 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::{{echo|R3ap3R}} Quoting from ]: "if you place this tag, you should promptly start a discussion on the article's talk page to explain what is non-neutral about the article. If you do not start this discussion, then any editor is justified in removing the tag without warning." You haven't started explaing why this article is CoI and PoV. Please, this is not helpful for us to identify issues and improve the article together. Please join discussion. Thank you. ] (]/]) 23:30, 2 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :::{{echo|Tsumikiria}}Saw this. That guy comes out of nowhere and starts edit warring and wikipedia lawyering. No talk page contributions to explain his edits; nothing. And for what? The chance to insert marketing claims into the very first sentence of the article when that content already exists in the next sentence or two? Doesn't exactly sound like a hill I'd personally die on, but to each their own, I guess. ] (]) 23:55, 2 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::::{{echo|Fluous}} Thank you. That was a heck of an intimidating move. I would guess that they are here to respond for a canvassing effort, since this account hasn't been making edits for months and suddenly acting like that. They also did , so I guess this is kinda self-explanatory. Well, I guess I will be better prepared for this kind of users. Should this incident worth a mention in article talk? ] (]/]) 00:29, 3 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::::: {{echo|Tsumikiria}} Andrew Torba sent out a a few hours ago, which explains the sudden interest. ] (]) 01:00, 3 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::{{echo|Fluous}} This is pathetic. He might as well intentially cropped to make his point. I'll go make another notice of canvassing on talk page. ] (]/]) 01:14, 3 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| == COI Alert == | |||
| {{Echo|Tsumikiria}} I strongly suspect that ] may, in fact, be Gab CEO Andrew Torba. The peculiar phrasings, especially the use of the word "sophist" in his talk-page contribution, strike me as similar to Torba's writing style. It's somewhat of a rarely used word, and Torba, a philosophy major at the University of Scranton, has used it recently on social media. I'm not sure these feelings are strong enough evidence to do anything, but we should be on the lookout. ] (]) 04:29, 5 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :{{echo|Fluous}} I am not familiar with Torba's writing style, but this usage of a rare jargon with a definition limited to the speaker himself is rather striking. Still this could be a fan imitation. More evidence will be needed for ]. I'm more interested in why a user from 2015 demand to know who made the tense changes when they can check the diff themselves. Now that Torba his Misplaced Pages screenshot tweets, it would be interesting to observe what he tweet next. ] (]/]) 05:37, 5 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| == Antifa == | |||
| Hey Tsumikiria, my edits on the page relating to "Antifa" were absolutely accurate and you clearly show immense bias in that area, and therefore should not allowed to reverse edits that are in fact accurate. This is wikipedia, and we should try to maintain a level of neutrality. Clearly, you do not understand that. I'd hope we are all opposed to facism, but that doesnt mean that we can distort the facts regarding violent, fringe groups that happen to be on the right side in regards to facism. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 04:23, 17 November 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :{{echo|Halijohn}} I failed to see how calling your edits "absolutely accurate" and accusing "immense bias" can be any contributive to the article. And as other editors warned on your talk page, this is borderline personal attack. Please ]. I reverted your edit because they deviate from descriptions by referenced reliable sources. CNN describes the movement as "leaning towards the left", and ADL noted mainstream left joining the movement. A broader "left-wing" would be a more suitable descriptor. You also linked the word "fascist" to ]. This is ] unsupported by sources, and adding quotation marks around it is an ], an unacceptable practice. Furthermore, "ableist, transphobic, misogynist" is not provided by sources. There is currently an discussion on talk page regarding that. Please join discussion and refrain from inserting your own opinions as facts. ] (]/]) 05:32, 17 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| The idea that antifa simply "leans towards the left" is absolutely innacutrate, and if you cannot see that it goes to show your bias. I am not attacking you personally, but I do think that Misplaced Pages is a great resourse and one that I use all the time, and I really would appreciate it being accurate. And the scope of the ideologies that they oppose does include things like ableism and transphobia. That point would be lost on few. And when Antifa uses the term "Fascism", that could mean people on a wide spectrum, from Hitler to Richard Spencer to Donald Trump to Ted Cruz and moderate Republicans like Mitt Romney. And no, mainstream Democrats are not joinging anarchists in black block and commiting acts of violence. I am anti-facisit, but that does not mean I am "Antifa", and I suspect that if you were to poll people on wheather or not they were "anti-facist", godwilling, almsot all would say yes. Please refrain from inserting your own opinions as facts. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 05:45, 17 November 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :{{echo|Halijohn}}, please ]. Further down the lead it says "They tend to be anti-capitalist and they are predominantly far-left and militant left, which includes anarchists, communists and socialists." While ] and ] are far-left, ] and ] are ''not''. ADL wrote "though since Trump’s election, some people with more mainstream political backgrounds have also joined their ranks.". A broad "left-wing" would certainly be a more accurate descriptor. The lead also says "whom they identify as fascist, racist", which is enough to explain their opposition to various right-wing and far-right figures. Misplaced Pages is built upon ]. Although Antifa certainly is opposed to transphobes and homophobes, the sources referenced on the page does not explicitly raise them, so we cannot wrote it that way, otherwise it would be ]. Please provide reliable sources to support your additions. Thank you. ] (]/]) 06:45, 17 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
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| == The Internationale and Anarchism == | |||
| Hello. I saw your message earlier today --- sorry for the late response. I re-added the anarchist label to Pottier's politics and included references. I left the other change alone because I wanted to discuss it with you directly. The Internationale does have a place in anarchist culture --- the (which included famous anarchists like Emma Goldman and Errico Malatesta) sang it, the Spanish anarchists , and the Portugese version is also credited to , an anarcho-syndicalist. I'd argue it's enough to include the anarchists into the list of movements inspired by the song. ] (]) 00:54, 30 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :{{echo|Le Humanitaire}} Thank you for responding. You might want to explain your changes in article talk pages next time, so they're not reverted in misunderstanding. These are good indicators that anarchists celebrate ''the Internationale'', but referencing to other Wikimedia projects, to my knowledge, may not be enough. Could you find ] that directly supports this? Or sources that says prominent anarchists celebrate it? The International Anarchist Congress in Amsterdam website does not seem to mention ''the Internationale''. Perhaps you can import some references from the Spanish and Portuguese Misplaced Pages pages? Thank you. ] (]/]) 08:47, 30 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :{{echo|Tsumikira}} I'll have to look around for the Spanish and Portugal stuff. As for the Congress, I should've linked the on that page instead. That was my bad. Hopefully this is better. ] (]) 23:46, 30 November 2018 (UTC) | |||
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| :It looks like you haven't. These are routine notifications. ] (]) 21:35, 4 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
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| :{{echo|D.Creish}} I am aware of discretionary sanctions on BLP and AP2. I have edited carefully and never intended to edit against Misplaced Pages guidelines. ] (]/]) 21:38, 4 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :: The notices don't imply you've done anything wrong just that you're aware. You say you've edited carefully but I just removed an unsourced claim about a living person that you added so maybe more carefully is more better ;) ] (]) 21:42, 4 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| == Pending changes reviewer granted == | |||
| ] | |||
| Hello. Your account has been granted the "{{mono|pending changes reviewer}}" userright, allowing you to ] on pages protected by pending changes. The list of articles awaiting review is located at ], while the list of articles that have pending changes protection turned on is located at ]. | |||
| Being granted reviewer rights neither grants you status nor changes how you can edit articles. If you do not want this user right, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. | |||
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| ]] 01:38, 7 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :{{echo|Swarm}} Thank you. ] (]/]) 01:47, 7 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| == Regarding your behavior on ] == | |||
| He, It seems you have been accusing other users of misbehavior. | |||
| On 22 November, 2018, you replied to me here saying,{{quote|''],"You picked an unfortunate time to file your request as most of our US editors are having Thanksgiving breaks. Please do not forget that we all have real life matters to attend to. This is all very interesting, but none of them supported ] that Gab is being censored. None used the term censor, or anything close, verbatim, in describing its situation. As I explained earlier to another editor, without overwheming support from reliable sources, such strong words are to be avoided, else it would be editorializing. It is understandable that you think your favorite gathering place is not getting good treatments, but your own opinion matters nothing to Misplaced Pages. And seeing you using quotation marks aroud the term antisemetic, if you are here to defend repugnant views that "advocated for genocidal violence against Jewish people", or to question the classification of it as anti-Semitic, ]"''}} | |||
| You accused me of using original research to show that Gab is being censored, saying "This is all very interesting, but none of them supported ]", "Your own subjective assertion" linking to ]. | |||
| You also falsely attributed to me that gab is my "favorite gathering place", without evidence. | |||
| On the same day, after I had responded, you replied here saying, {{quote|''"This conversation can serve no further purpose if you continue to ignore basic Misplaced Pages guidelines on not presenting your own interpretations as facts. Your assertion that deplatforming is censorship is also not supported. We don't write something as facts because you ''think'' they are in line with definitions on Misplaced Pages. Reliable, authoritative sources have no overwheming support for such assertions. And yes, your further edit requests will be ignored and archived, if they are clear violations of Misplaced Pages guidelines."''}} | |||
| You accused me of "ignor basic Misplaced Pages guidelines" on "not presenting your own interpretations as facts". | |||
| On December 3rd, 2018, you responded to one of my posts here saying, {{quote|''"Impressive 11,000 text wall you've composed. No, we will not mass delete and doctor valid content and replace them with fig leaf "free speech aspect" that no reliable source treats seriously. You cannot create false balance out of thin air. Misplaced Pages policies does not back your filibustering that suggests a motive of whitewashing your favorite website. You have contributed nothing of value to the article or anywhere else on Misplaced Pages and please stop further wasting everyone's time."''}} | |||
| You implied that I wanted to "mass delete and doctor valid content" and "replace them with fig leaf "free speech aspect" that no reliable source treats seriously" | |||
| You accused me of "filibustering" and that that "filibustering" suggest that I have a "motive of whitewashing your favorite website" again falsely attributing Gab as "Your favorite website". | |||
| This is just 3 of the several examples of you misusing the talk page to accuse other users of breaking Guidelines or acting in bad faith. Once more, I ask you to follow ], and to stop ] without evidence. If you have an issue with another user's conduct, you can discuss with them on their user talk page, or report the behavior on ]. ] (]) 16:15, 7 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::Your first edit was on Nov 5th. A month later you're linking to ].] (]) 22:21, 8 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| == Fixed your talk page archiving == | |||
| :{{echo|Ridiceo}} I believe we were in heated debates, so allow me to walk back my remarks on Gab being your favorite website and that you are here to defend repugnant views. Sorry for that. But the rest of my concerns are reasonable and substantiated. "Gab is being censored", or "deplatforming is censorship", are indeed your own original research, or ideas, that are not reflected in any reliable sources we've seen so far. The closest thing I found is "popular among those who ''believed'' that they're being censored". Restating them over and over again is indeed disruptive, and does not change the nature that this is not what Misplaced Pages policies represents. And since you did not present your argument in a standard "change X to Y because of our consensus on Z" format, I cannot infer what other actions your listing of perceived unfavorable language would suggest, other than systematically doctoring the wording to unwarrantedly alter what reliable sources actually says on the subject. You said that the "'free speech' aspect of Gab" is being minimized on this article, but we cannot minimize things that are not in the sources in the first place. So far I find none reliable sources, including the ones you provided, reported this as a ''true'' aspect of Gab - most report it as a self-promotion or marketing, and you certainly did not provide any textual quotations. ] Multiple people and me have told you the above things multiple times over a long time span, but each time, you chose to either ],<ref></ref> ],<ref></ref> ],<ref></ref> ],<ref></ref> or just ignore the user and tell another user the same thing, as if you can give a ]. You should understand that it is very upsetting for me, and other users, to work with you on this article. But this does not mean you cannot improve, so for now I won't bother to hit up ANI for a problem not yet intractable. You are, however, free to pursue and escalate your case. ] (]/]) 03:23, 8 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| Hi! I took the liberty of fixing the auto-archiving settings at the top of this page. --] (]) 12:50, 6 September 2021 (UTC) | |||
| ::Your concerns being "reasonable" don't mean anything when you're disrupting a talk page about Gab to personally attack another user by claiming that they've broken Misplaced Pages guidelines and accusing them of bad-faith editing. I've asked already for you to follow talk page guidelines, but you haven't. And the clear evidence is above. I concede on the "Free speech aspect" and I believe that's what caused a lot of the heated-ness. But even then, on your own talk page, you are ] without evidence. You don't even link to anything I've said. For now, I'll strikeout the part where I argue on the "representation of gab". Keep in mind, however, that this comment on your talk page is simply a reminder to follow the ]. ] (]) 04:14, 8 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :::{{echo|Ridiceo}} ↓Citations are right here below the portion which you claimed that I was casting aspersions. Again, please read fully before claiming any source is/isn't supportive of your views, or anyone has/hasn't said something. ], for substantiated and legitimate concerns on your content and conduct. I was, and will be, by no possible extent, "disruptive", or "in bad faith". It is good that you're learning to concede on a lost clause. It would be better of you can understand your own behavior, before consciously or unconsiously, resorting or submitting to ]s. ] (]/]) 06:38, 8 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::::] Isn't a guideline. It's an essay. Furthermore, these diffs don't reflect what you're trying to imply about me. I did not "Deny I posted what I did" in the first diff you quoted, nor did I "pretend my question has not already been answered" in your second diff. Your third is simply an unsubstantiated claim that I misrepresented a policy, and the fourth is someone '''claiming''' that consensus is against me, when no consensus has been made on whether "Favorite" should stay in the article. ] (]) 16:43, 8 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Well, since WP:AAGF is an essay not a guideline, let me point out that your first edit was on Nov 5th, and only a month later, you're lecturing other editors on the difference between a guideline and an essay.] (]) 22:23, 8 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::I'm not lecturing anybody. I've simply requested that this user stop attacking others. I will follow guidelines to the best of my ability, not essays. But please, show me more that this community is garbage, and I'll find my way out. I made this thread on Tsumikiria's talk page to try to resolve this issue, and they decided to attempt to flip it on me. Tagging "Assuming the assumption of good faith" is simply an excuse to accuse others of bad-faith editing and then crying "Dont make assumptions about my assumptions" when they call you out on it. There is a very good reason why essays are not guidelines, and that is one of them. Who knew that asking someone to follow basic Misplaced Pages guidelines would produce an egregious reply like this. But yes, lets join in and dogpile. I'm one person. This was meant as a one-on-one with Tsumikiria to resolve the issue. ] (]) 23:40, 8 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::{{echo|Ridiceo}} Yes, essays are not binding guidelines, but the situations they describe may invariably exist. I am willing to resolve any content or conduct dispute in the spirit of good faith cooperation, but that spirit is just as much a limited resource as patience. And I cannot help on issues that doesn't much realize beyond your imagination. I've gone nowhere close as to launch deliberate personal attacks. If pointing out other user's error and providing my resonable concerns are indeed attacks in bad faith, the project known as Misplaced Pages would not effectively exist. ]. Recognizing that, and should you still have issues on content or conduct, you are always free to further and escalate. ] (]/]) 03:31, 9 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| {{reflist talk}} | |||
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Fixed your talk page archiving
Hi! I took the liberty of fixing the auto-archiving settings at the top of this page. --rchard2scout (talk) 12:50, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
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