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{{South African English}} |
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{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|vital=yes|blp=no|listas=De Klerk, F. W.|1= |
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{{WikiProject South Africa|importance=top|politics=yes}} |
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{{WikiProject Biography|politician-work-group=yes|politician-priority=Mid}} |
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{{ITN talk|date = 11 November 2021|oldid = 1054772638}} |
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* <nowiki>]</nowiki> The anchor (#Dutch servitude in the Cape) has been ] before. <!-- {"title":"Dutch servitude in the Cape","appear":{"revid":558405595,"parentid":558295845,"timestamp":"2013-06-05T06:48:39Z","replaced_anchors":{"Dutch slavery in the Cape":"Dutch servitude in the Cape"},"removed_section_titles":,"added_section_titles":},"disappear":{"revid":1010408389,"parentid":1010406994,"timestamp":"2021-03-05T09:11:06Z","removed_section_titles":,"added_section_titles":}} --> |
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{{On this day|date1=2023-03-18|oldid1=1145325682}} |
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== looking for an edge in helping innocency == |
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== De Klerk's role == |
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"Today the role of De Klerk has largely been ignored by the ruling ANC and all credit given to so-called 'Heroes of the Struggle.'" I have a problem with this line. |
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a. It is very subjective |
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b. Why should de Klerk be given any credit? his party and he himself was the reason for the problem in the first place. |
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] 12:02, 17 November 2005 (UTC) |
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::Removed. -- <font color="#FF0000">'''Миборовский'''</font> <sup>]|]|]|]|]|]!</sup> 07:53, 3 February 2006 (UTC) |
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You don't know your history. The ANC are communist thugs. de Klerk and co should have kept power. Look at SA today. |
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:Neutral POV, please. |
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] 12:31, 22 April 2006 (UTC) |
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Of course he should be given credit, he ended apartheid not Nelson Mandela. Mandela is a great man but it was De Klerk who ended apartheid. |
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== Ancestry == |
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About his name: it is stated that the name De Klerk is derived from French, but De Klerk is a common Dutch name. Is his ancestry truely French? --] 22:02, 23 October 2006 (UTC) |
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:His ancestry is indeed French & it has been noted on the public record. All of the people with the De Klerk name in South Africa are descended from Abraham Le Clercq who arrived at the Cape in 1688 during the largest wave of French Huguenot refugees (1687 - 1690) to the region. As was the case with a number of French names: the spelling was changed to reflect a Dutch spelling. Though there were still quite a lot of French names which retained their original spelling. Such as De Villiers / Naudé / Joubert / Vivier / Roux etc. |
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<tt> <ul> Just how history will come to judge Frederik Willem de Klerk is something else. He admits to being nothing more than a product of time and circumstances. His ancestors were French Protestants--Huguenots--who fled to the Netherlands to avoid religious persecution and settled in the South African Cape in 1688. </ul> </tt> |
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<div align=right> From: |
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</div> |
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At the Huguenot Society of South Africa web page: the following line is listed among the French Huguenot surnames which survive in South Africa showing the transformation from Le Clercq to De Klerk. |
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Abraham le Clercq (le Clerc, de Clercq, de Klerk), x Magdalena Mouton |
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<div align=right> From: |
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</div> |
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The line is located between Pierre Labuschagne & Jean le Long. (which is now de Lange). |
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<tt> <ul> The Huguenots who arrived at the Cape of Good Hope at the end of the 17th century, consisted of only a fraction of the large-scale Protestant flight from France after the revocation of the Edict on Nantes in 1685. Nevertheless their numbers were large enough to have a considerable influence and leave a lasting impression on the young settlement at the Cape. As early as 1671 the first Huguenot refugee, Francois Villion (later Viljoen), arrived at the Cape. In 1686 the brothers Guillaume and Francois du Toit arrived. After the main stream of Huguenots arrived during 1688 – 1689, they comprised approximately one sixth of the free burgher population, after which individual arrivals continued sporadically until the termination of the state subsidised emigration in 1707. </ul> </tt> |
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<div align=right> From: |
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</div> |
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The Boers & Afrikaners are at least 15 % to 24 % French in ethnic origin or composition. |
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<div align=right> ] 17:09, 23 October 2006 (UTC) </div> |
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::de Clerc or De Clerc instead (clerc means ''cleric''). But it may be the same as for ] whose name is a pervertion of Germanic ''De Walle''.<br /><small>] (] | ])</small> 13:55, 31 August 2006 (UTC) |
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== De Klerk's reasons == |
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How did F. W. manage to be in a position to dismantle apartheid? I.e. did he become president and leader of his party on the strength of his desire to end apartheid, or did it come as a shock to the National Party? What were F. W.'s motivations for his own removal from office? Was he a reluctant champion of the human rights of black sth africans? Can we learn anything from F. W. de Klerk about the prerequisites - on the oppressors side - for ending oppression? - ] |
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:I'm not sure I understand your questions... FW became state president after ] had to step down (partly due to health concerns), as the article states. He was part of a more liberal movement within the National Party, but I doubt his followers had anything as radical in mind as the abolishing of apartheid. He received a lot of criticism for this liberal POV, but he finished what he started, partly due to his perseverance, but also because the country would not have survived any other way. There was a lot of problems in the negotiating phase (just read ]'s quotes in wikiquote), but he really did make the most concerted effort by those in power to start change. His own removal from office was, I'm sure, what he realised would inevitably happen should he open elections to all the country's citizens -- I doubt that it was because of him perceiving himself as a black champion, but rather as the reality of the matter. (] 09:09, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)) |
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::I added a note to the page to say his reasons were unclear. ] 19:02, 2005 May 2 (UTC) |
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:::No. Saying that apartheid was to be abolished in 1989 was no radical, shock move. They had absolutely no choice in the matter. South Africa was falling apart due to the major international sanctions, and an increasing body of the white population were turning against apartheid as it was stifling their economies (e.g. not enough skilled blacks to work, or not enough blacks could access location of work etc). ] 20:49, 20 July 2005 (UTC) |
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::::there was a couple of reasons which led de klerk to the abolition of apartheid from 1990 on: the end of the cold war, the sanctions against the country, his realistic view of the things,... --] 10:32, 16 October 2006 (UTC) |
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I do not agree with the section commenting why FW de Klerk decided to end apartheid. |
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Article needs to be corrected to reflect that.. |
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a) FW de Klerk taking the reigns of the National Party (NP) was in fact a coup d'état by senior members of the NP effectively ousting PW Botha |
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b) it was not '''his''' decision, but one that was made by him and by sernior party members |
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c) the major deciding factor for the NP was the fall of communism, called '''The Red Danger''' (''Die Rooi Gevaar''), ceased to be a threat (the Cold War has ended, the Berlin Wall came down, etc) |
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== The new edits == |
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: I don't really like the new edits that have been made. Why has the explanation been taken away? I think the explanations were good. ] 11:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC) |
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== Ancestry == |
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]: |
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:''F.W. de Klerk, last Apartheid-era President of South Africa (1989-1994); acknowledges in his autobiography some Indian ancestry that his family had previously kept secret (and which would have legally disqualified him from holding office)'' |
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If true, it shoud be mentioned. |
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While it is indeed true that F W De Klerk has admitted to having an Indian ancestor the fact of the matter is that it would not have "disqualified" him from holding office for the simple fact that it is not uncommon for Afrikaners & Boers to have Indian / Khoi or Malay ancestors. The reason as to why they are not generally viewed as a "mixed race" is because the non White ancestors are fewer in number then say the Griquas for example & somewhat far enough back in the past. |
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The ethnic composition of the White Afrikaans population has been noted at being about 5 - 7 % non White afterall. Remember: a number of the first White settlers in the region married Indian / Khoi or Malay (or a combination thereof) slaves & a significant number of the mixed race offspring of these unions were absorbed into the White population. |
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Furthermore these non White ancestors generally date to the 1600s or 1700s therefore Boers & Afrikaners in the 20th century were by & large considered to be White even among those who were aware of their full ancestry or who even had slight non White features. |
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<tt> <ul> Just how history will come to judge Frederik Willem de Klerk is something else. He admits to being nothing more than a product of time and circumstances. His ancestors were French Protestants--Huguenots--who fled to the Netherlands to avoid religious persecution and settled in the South African Cape in 1688. Like many Afrikaners he has a skeleton in the closet--one of his 18th century forebears was the daughter of an Indian slave. </ul> </tt> |
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<div align=right> From: |
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</div> |
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<tt> <ul> With only 19 European women and 100 white free burghers at the Cape in 1677, most 13th generation South Africans with colonial ancestry have at least one slave ancestor from these parts. Though European female numbers increased 30 years later, slave women were often favoured for their beauty, and many became the ancestral mothers (or stammoeders) of generations of families in South Africa. <p> |
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Angela of Bengal. <p> |
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Before the first official slave consignments had been sanctioned, Angela of Bengal (or Maaij Ansela) was bought by Jan van Riebeeck, the founder of the Dutch colony, was resold and freed by her master. She then married Arnoldus Willemsz Bason, and became the stammoeder of the Basson family in South Africa. <p> |
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Through marriages of her children, Maaij (or Mooi, Beautiful) Ansela is also the stammoeder of the Bergh and Van As families. One of her descendants was Voortrekker leader Andries Pretorius, who married Anna Retief, niece of slain trekboer Piet. <p> |
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In 1692, four of the 34 Cape Town free burghers had ex-slave wives, but according to "Cape Town, Making of a City", compiled by Nigel Worden et al, this mestizo culture was gradually discouraged by the ruling Dutch, although this did not discourage illicit affairs - and illegitimate children borne out of such unions. <p> |
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As veteran genealogist Hans Heese, himself a white descendant of Krotoa, puts it in his book "Die Herkoms van die Afrikaner 1657-1867", the modern-day white Afrikaner is of 34% Dutch, 33% German, 13% French, 6.9% coloured and 5% British origin - a formidable array of genes for the South African genealogist to contend with. </ul> </tt> |
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<div align=right> From: |
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</div> |
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<tt> <ul> The early Cape had a very small number of people who formed the genetic pool for the make up of the future Afrikaners. Fortunately the pool was enlarged and enriched with people who were not from Europe. They were mainly Stammoeders. It is rather ironic that the so called White Afrikaner Race, can claim slaves as part of our ancestors. </ul> </tt> |
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Hi, I'm Sakhile Ncwane, I who like to know why you tried to kill him with Mandela and left privacy to be your outstanding. |
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<div align=right> From: |
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== The name "De Klerk" is of Dutch, not Huguenot origin == |
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</div> |
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As indicated in the article, F.W. de Klerk is of Dutch origin. Klerk is a Dutch word, derived from Latin "clericus", and was generally used for administrative professions (see: ]). Many people in the Netherlands are called "de Klerk". There is no reason it would be derived from Le Clerc or other French words, as De Klerk has Dutch roots and Afrikaans is a language derived from Dutch. This should be corrected. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 10:04, 22 February 2022 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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The fact of the matter is the F W De Klerk is not unique in having an Indian ancestor -in fact it has been reported that famous & notable Boer & Afrikaner leaders such as Andries Pretorius / Piet Retief -who is also of direct French Huguenot origin- / Paul Kruger / Louis Botha as well as Jan Smuts also have at least one non White ancestor. |
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== shouldn't it be De Klerk instead of de Klerk? == |
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<div align=right> ] 17:09, 23 October 2006 (UTC) </div> |
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Both in Dutch and Afrikaans surnames affixes are written with capitals when a given name is missing. So it's Vincent van Gogh, but Dutch painter Van Gogh. Or Edwin van der Sar and ex-Ajax goalie Van der Sar. Hope this makes sense. |
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==Nuclear, Biological, Chemical Weapons == |
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FW is also the only head of state to have voluntarily dismantled a nation's NBC platforms. ] 23:00, 1 November 2006 (UTC) |
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Not sure if this rule is also applicable in English. ] (]) 19:16, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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It's not so different in the U.S., where many people who are Caucasian or African-American have a small amount of American Indian ancestery.] 12:10, 16 November 2006 (UTC) |
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Hi, I'm Sakhile Ncwane, I who like to know why you tried to kill him with Mandela and left privacy to be your outstanding.
As indicated in the article, F.W. de Klerk is of Dutch origin. Klerk is a Dutch word, derived from Latin "clericus", and was generally used for administrative professions (see: ]). Many people in the Netherlands are called "de Klerk". There is no reason it would be derived from Le Clerc or other French words, as De Klerk has Dutch roots and Afrikaans is a language derived from Dutch. This should be corrected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fabzwiki (talk • contribs) 10:04, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
Both in Dutch and Afrikaans surnames affixes are written with capitals when a given name is missing. So it's Vincent van Gogh, but Dutch painter Van Gogh. Or Edwin van der Sar and ex-Ajax goalie Van der Sar. Hope this makes sense.
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