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Portal:Bacon (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

See Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/Bottom Importance Portals

Closed three days early in a way that does not reflect the discussion or what happened. The discussion found that the Portals Classification system is too inconsistent to follow in batching nominations, so I withdrew the nomination about halfway through the 7 day discussion. Note all the Oppose votes instead of normal Keep votes, which goes to the heart of the merits of using the inconsistent classification system for MFD selection, hence the withdraw so individual pages or topical groups could be nominated instead. The closer is a member of WikiProject Portals, signed up for their newsletter, and appears to have jumped at the chance to finally tag a series of pages as Keep after so many have closed delete. I prefer a more accurate close of Withdrawn and a finding statement that most of the voters found the classifications to be inaccurate or inconsistent. Note this whole portal issue is now at ArbComm plus AN plus other places so getting an accurate close is important. Legacypac (talk) 07:53, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

• Endorse close. The discussion was not closed three days early, it was closed eight hours early. The discussion was started on 11:19, 17 March 2019‎ (link) and was closed on 03:20, 24 March 2019 (diff). While it would have been optimal for the standard full 168 hours to have transpired, re-opening the discussion at this point for another eight hours likely won't change the outcome. There were also concerns in the discussion regarding the style of bundling that was used, and the number of users opining for some or all of the pages to be retained has more gravity compared to the nominator singly withdrawing. Furthermore, since the discussion did have a delete !vote present, a "withdrawn" close would be inappropriate, as these are typically only used for discussions that have no outstanding delete !votes (see WP:WITHDRAWN). North America 08:02, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

As a strong advocate of portals spam your opinion is bias. There are three days of open MfDs below this and the old business section. Legacypac (talk) 11:42, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

My opinion above is based upon objective logic and a deletion guideline. As such, my !vote is entirely valid, and stands. Also, please read and adhere to WP:AVOIDYOU. North America 12:14, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

• Addendum to my !vote: Upon further consideration, no prejudice to changing the close to a procedural close. North America 13:55, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

• Overturn and reclose as something other than "keep" (withdrawn, procedural close, no consensus, I'm not sure which, but it's not "keep"). This was a bundled nom of 18 portals assessed as "bottom importance" by the portal project. Various editors voted to keep this portal or that portal. Nobody voted "keep all". Several editors voted "oppose" (interestingly, they didn't use the word "keep") based on the argument that the bundled portals shouldn't have been bundled (which I see as distinct from arguing that the bundled portals should all be kept). The consensus was clear that these portals should not be bundled because their assessments weren't helpful. Once that became clear (early on), the nom agreed to withdraw (because it wasn't a good bundle) but asked to keep the discussion open for comments, a sensible thing that allowed folks to offer some more input about what people thought about those various (disparate) portals on the list. Closing the discussion as "keep" suggests there was consensus that all the portals should be kept, and I don't see that anywhere in the discussion. The point has been made that this nom can't be closed as a "withdraw" because there was one delete !vote. That vote was made by Robert McClenon, and I don't want to speak for him, but something tells me he'd strike that vote if that meant the discussion could be closed as withdrawn instead of keep. Although, in my opinion, having someone strike a delete vote so a nom can be withdrawn seems like a lot of BURO. In any case, this should be closed as withdrawn, or a procedural close for bad bundling, or maybe a no consensus close, but the discussion doesn't support a "keep" close because there wasn't consensus to keep those portals. (Indeed, once a nom announces they're willing to withdraw but asks the discussion to remain open, the discussion "fails" procedurally because passing voters–like me–won't bother to comment since they don't think it's a "live" discussion.) Leviv ich 15:59, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
• I commented so I'm not going to bold anything here, but Portal:Anime and Manga was clearly withdrawn earlier and separately from the rest of the batch and discussion didn't continue, so a "withdrawn" closure for that one specifically would not be incorrect. I see a consensus to keep Portal:Jane Austen and Portal:Harry Potter, and not much discussion about other individual portals. There was clearly no consensus to delete though so I don't see a problem with any of "keep", "keep without prejudice to unbundled nominations" or "no consensus" (other than for the three I've mentioned). I would likely have gone for "keep without prejudice" but the others are well within closers discretion. Thryduulf (talk) 19:06, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
• Overturn and Set Aside as Withdrawn. In any case, Overturn. This is a case where the close could not possibly be derived from the !votes. There were multiple mistakes involved, first by User:Legacypac in bundling this bundle of unrelated portals, which is exactly what is meant by TRAINWRECK, then perhaps by me in supporting this trainwreck, then by Legacypac in making a confused close/withdraw which was neither a clean close nor a clean withdraw, but most importantly by the closer, because the conclusion of Keep the whole thing has nothing to do with what was said. Yes, I would strike my !vote if that is what is needed to permit a withdraw. These nominations should be permitted to be made again without being prejudiced by this MFD that should be viewed as having never happened. This train went into a ravine. Try again, or don't try again. In any case, wait and see if the ArbCom imposes a pause on portal deletion. Overturn as Withdrawn, or as nothing. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:42, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

An early mistake was in classifying these portals as bottom importance. That was clearly random and arbitrary. I should never have relied on the decision making ability of users who created so much trouble. It is impossible to get a "keep" out of the votes to "oppose". I think valid points were made about Jane Austin and maybe some other topics and particularly about the lack of proper classification so I withdrew the whole thing. I also find it interesting an Admin with so little MfD experience choose this one weird MfD to close out of process. Legacypac (talk) 19:51, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

• There was a pretty solid consensus in that discussion that those portals should not have been bundled in one nomination like that, along with opposition to deleting particular portals. I think the best result would be to set the discussion aside as fundamentally flawed, and allow individual portals to be renominated separately if someone thinks there will be a consensus for the deletion of that particular portal. Hut 8.5 20:38, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
• Overturn to no consensus Endorse, but clarify keep as without prejudice for renomination There's nothing wrong at all with the close and I almost went endorse, but I think the best way to solve the problem is to set this aside as a "no consensus" on whether the portals should be kept or not. I think "keep" works in the context of all of the portals bundled together individually, but from an absolutely semantic point of view a "no consensus" would allow the portals to be renominated. Keep it a keep but clarify you're allowing for immediate renomination. SportingFlyer T·C 00:57, 25 March 2019 (UTC) (Comment edited SportingFlyer T·C 18:14, 25 March 2019 (UTC))

• Endorse but reclose as procedural close, procedural keep, speedy keep, no prejudice keep, nom withdraw or whatever you want to call it. The discussion centered around the bad nom, and the closing rationale notes this. Since there wasn't (and couldn't have been) much discussion on the content, it shouldn't be taken as a close "with prejudice" IMO, instead analogous to speedy keep via WP:SK1. I feel changing the wording of the close to reflect that would be the most appropriate action. Alpha3031 (t • c) 11:37, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
• Even though the sole deleting !voter supports withdraw, the deletion cannot be withdrawn as there was a delete !vote and several merge !votes. I'm fine with an WP:IAR withdraw since there's support from the deleting !voter, but technically the initial withdraw shouldn't have been allowed, plus a "keep without prejudice" close is better anyways. SportingFlyer T·C 18:14, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
• I'm sure Arbcom are capable of assessing the situation properly, whatever words appear in bold in the closing statement. Phil Bridger (talk) 08:59, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

I think it behooves us to be clear "on the record" that these portals can be renominated, and the result was procedural consensus (about the nomination), not a substantive consensus (about the portals). Leviv ich 13:43, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

• Endorse but reclose as procedural keep/withdrawn etc. Stifle (talk) 16:43, 26 March 2019 (UTC)