Revision as of 20:26, 28 March 2019 editJontel (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users20,518 edits →Deleting Miko Peled reference: new section← Previous edit |
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==2000 years== |
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So to those who argue we should expand this article with more historical information, why then is the only new material more about the last 2 years? This article is not about Corbyn or the Labour party. So how about rather then add new material about contemporary antisemitism we put that effort into giving a bit more meat to the last 200 years?] (]) 13:49, 27 March 2018 (UTC) |
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: The revelation about the mural was followed by a letter from the Board of Deputies and the Jewish Leadership Council stating: "Again and again, Jeremy Corbyn has sided with anti-Semites rather than Jews" and asserted that he is a "figurehead for an anti-Semitic political culture". An unusual protest of about 1,500 people, mostly Jews (plus a much smaller counter-demonstration) occurred yesterday, about Corbyn and the Labour Party's treatment of this issue. I am not suggesting the mural should be discussed in any depth here, but the incidents of the last few days (not yet covered in the AS/Labour Party article) are particularly notable, and despite recentism applying, should be included here. ] (]) 14:13, 27 March 2018 (UTC) |
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::As you said this is recentism, and is it really indicative of contemporary antisemitism? Indeed is this really the most important issue affecting Britain's Jews this year (an event that actually happened 6 years ago)? Is this really the most important piece of news about contemporary antisemitism? And again why do we need so much about one man and one party? This is supposed to be an overview article of 2000 years of antisemitism, so how about expanding the historical material?] (]) 14:22, 27 March 2018 (UTC) |
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: My post was about the letter and protest in recent days. I twice mention the mural in passing so you concentrate on that as deviation. ] (]) 14:37, 27 March 2018 (UTC) |
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::And? Yet again, this is not about contemporary antisemitism in Britain, not about the Labour party. We already have well over 3/4 of this article about contemporary antisemitism, and about half that devoted to the Labour party. Thus is massively unbalanced given 2000 years of history. And no I am not concentrating on the mural as a deviation, we are talking about adding just that, mention of the mural controversy. That is what this latest spat is about, Corbyns comments about the mural. But lets ignore that then. |
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::Explain why we need ore stuff about a subject we already devote about a third of this article to? What does this tell us about antisemitism in Britain we do not already cover?] (]) 14:45, 27 March 2018 (UTC) |
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== Why is is is entry ignoring a key dynamic at the heart of the anti-Semitism debate in the UK? == |
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== Why is is is entry ignoring a key dynamic at the heart of the anti-Semitism debate in the UK? == |
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There is no balance in this article to counter the false assumption made in it that arguments against actions by the government or military of Israel, or against Zionism, are automatically anti-Semitic. In this way the article is one sided and pushes a false narrative that can in itself be seen as anti-Semitic since it employs the very same tactic used by extremist anti-Semites who would blame all Jews for the actions of Israel or extreme Zionists. That assumption should not appear as a flat assumption in this article - it should be stated that in the debate about anti-Semitism in the UK, one side is trying to push that assumption and is being criticised for doing so as both an attempt to shut down criticism of Israel and extreme Zionism and as a dangerous use of the same conflation employed by extreme anti-Semites. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 07:54, May 11, 2018 (UTC)</small> |
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There is no balance in this article to counter the false assumption made in it that arguments against actions by the government or military of Israel, or against Zionism, are automatically anti-Semitic. In this way the article is one sided and pushes a false narrative that can in itself be seen as anti-Semitic since it employs the very same tactic used by extremist anti-Semites who would blame all Jews for the actions of Israel or extreme Zionists. That assumption should not appear as a flat assumption in this article - it should be stated that in the debate about anti-Semitism in the UK, one side is trying to push that assumption and is being criticised for doing so as both an attempt to shut down criticism of Israel and extreme Zionism and as a dangerous use of the same conflation employed by extreme anti-Semites. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 07:54, May 11, 2018 (UTC)</small> |
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== New bus line == |
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== RfC regarding Jeremy Corbyn and antisemitism == |
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There is currently a discussion regarding whether a letter from a number of Orthodox Rabbis should be included in the “Allegations of antisemitism and responses” section of the Jeremy Corbyn page. Arguments for and against are in the “Letter from Orthodox Rabbis is Valid” section of the talk page. Please view and vote if this interests you. See https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Jeremy_Corbyn#RfC_about_a_letter_from_Orthodox_Rabbis ] (]) 11:41, 6 October 2018 (UTC) |
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Although the ] reported that the new 310 bus route in London was introduced "to protect (the Jewish community) from antisemitic harassment", this is denied by members of the local community. According to the ], "Yet as Rabbi David Mason tweeted in reply to a man decrying the 310 as an emblem of a divided city: “Safety was never the main reason”. Buried in most reports was the fact that the 310’s route was first proposed 15 years ago, by GLA member Brian Coleman, to “connect families and friends in the Jewish community and enable them to get to community events going on in those areas”." It is misleading to use this as evidence for an increase in antisemitic activity, and I will accordingly remove the reference. <span style="font-family: Papyrus">] (])</span> 15:16, 12 September 2024 (UTC) |
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== RFC at Jackie Walker == |
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:Yes there does seme to be an undue issue with this. ] (]) 15:17, 12 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::The reference from the Jerusalem Post is accurately referenced. You have brought a source claiming otherwise. I will restore the Jerusalem Post source and add that others have argued that the new bus line is not related to antisemetism. ] (]) 07:42, 19 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:It is also untrue to suggest that Finsbury Park is an unsafe location for Jews. I worked there for many years, and was a regular patron there of one of the largest - and, in my opinion, best - bagel bakeries in London. Hardly a sign of a hotbed of antisemitism! <span style="font-family: Papyrus">] (])</span> 16:12, 12 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::It is categorically your prerogative to believe that it is not unsafe for Jews, but the reference states otherwise. If you can find a reference to the contrary, feel free to add it. ] (]) 07:42, 19 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:::And other denies this is the reason, thus ] may come into this. ] (]) 09:17, 19 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::::We follow references. The references cited state that this was the reason. You can feel free to cite other references that say otherwise and give context, but the fact that others argue on the reasoning in the source does not automatically make it ]. I encourage you to self revert. ] (]) 11:27, 19 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::And just because you can find a source, is not a guarantee of inclusion. THis really tells us nothing other than an Israli sources think its an issue. ] (]) 12:05, 19 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::This need to be included. We need to follow sources. ] (]) 12:30, 19 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::I just saw your message on this Talk page and I fully agree with your viewpoint. ] (]) 06:24, 19 October 2024 (UTC) |
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== Question == |
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https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Jackie_Walker_(activist)#Request_for_comment_can_we_say_Jackie_Walker_is_Jewish ] (]) 13:41, 20 November 2018 (UTC) |
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The article seems to be too long, consisting of a substantial amount of run-on and repetitive sentences. Some of the article’s sections may be grouped together rather than separated from one another. Sources backing up the content also need some degree of clean-up and rearrangement. It would be great if anyone can take the lead in achieving some or all of the possible goals for the betterment of the article. ] (]) 03:46, 19 October 2024 (UTC) |
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== Deleting Miko Peled reference == |
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== Dec 2024 == |
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I am proposing this passage be deleted: Deputy leader ], promised there would be an investigation on how the party provided a platform at a conference fringe event to ], who stated, as reported by the ''Daily Mail'', that people ought to be allowed to question whether the Holocaust happened.{{sfn|Elgot|2017}} Watson in response said, "It is nothing to do with the official Labour party conference. And, if there was Holocaust denial there, these people have no right to be in the Labour party and, if they are, they should be expelled." Peled responded to the accusations by saying that Watson and Ashworth were confusing freedom of speech with antisemitism, tweeting "free speech is now antisemitism too." Peled said he did not deny the Holocaust.{{sfn|Weaver|Elgot|2017}} At a later meeting at ] in November 2017, Pelod complained about a "witch-hunt against antisemites and Holocaust deniers" and said Corbyn had "put away" the "nonsense" about those issues. See {{cite news|last=Thomas|first=Alastair|url=https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/miko-peled-zionists-do-not-deserve-a-platform-1.447859|title=Miko Peled: Zionists do not deserve a platform|work=The Jewish Chronicle|date=12 November 2017|accessdate=12 November 2017}}</ref> |
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https://www.thejc.com/news/largest-menorah-lighting-ever-in-bricket-wood-after-chanukiah-smashed-by-vandals-ro7yfi24 |
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I do not think it is particularly relevant to the article. Peled is not British. He did not attack British Jews. He mentioned freedom of expression on the Holocaust in passing (four words) at a meeting about Free speech and Israel but says that he does not deny the Holocaust. He was speaking at a fringe meeting of a Labour Party conference i.e. the meeting was not organized by the Labour Party but by individual members, at which he spoke along with a range of other speakers. WP:PROPORTION I also think these four words at a meeting is pretty trivial in an article on 1000 years' history of a serious subject and lowers the bar of significance far too low. May it be deleted? ] (]) 20:26, 28 March 2019 (UTC) |
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] (]) 09:48, 31 December 2024 (UTC) |
There is no balance in this article to counter the false assumption made in it that arguments against actions by the government or military of Israel, or against Zionism, are automatically anti-Semitic. In this way the article is one sided and pushes a false narrative that can in itself be seen as anti-Semitic since it employs the very same tactic used by extremist anti-Semites who would blame all Jews for the actions of Israel or extreme Zionists. That assumption should not appear as a flat assumption in this article - it should be stated that in the debate about anti-Semitism in the UK, one side is trying to push that assumption and is being criticised for doing so as both an attempt to shut down criticism of Israel and extreme Zionism and as a dangerous use of the same conflation employed by extreme anti-Semites. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.87.35 (talk • contribs) 07:54, May 11, 2018 (UTC)
The article seems to be too long, consisting of a substantial amount of run-on and repetitive sentences. Some of the article’s sections may be grouped together rather than separated from one another. Sources backing up the content also need some degree of clean-up and rearrangement. It would be great if anyone can take the lead in achieving some or all of the possible goals for the betterment of the article. Steven1991 (talk) 03:46, 19 October 2024 (UTC)