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== Frère Jacques == == Links ==

Hi, I saw that you reverted my edit to this article. Can you please explain why? I made two changes to the article: (1) removed the parenthetical comment from the phrase "also known in English as Brother John ''(although Charles and its short version Jack, is correct)''"; and (2) explained, elsewhere in the article, that Jacques is the French version of James or Jacob.

As to (1), I believe this change should absolutely be restored. The Charles/Jack parenthetical is an awkward phrasing, it is confusing, and it is wrong. It reads like Jack is "short" for Charles, rather than John. Worse, the name Charles has no relationship at all to Jacques or John, so it makes no sense to say it "is correct," especially because there is no English version of the song called "Brother Charles" or "Brother Jack." And there is no cited reference stating otherwise, or giving any indication as to why Charles might be correct, because it is not.

As to (2), I acknowledge this is more debatable. But since the article compares the French/English forms for frere/friar/brother, and since someone had already (wrongly) addressed the friar's name, I thought it made sense to correct the naming issue and give a little more detail. It's true that I did not cite a source, and if that's the issue, it is easily fixed. But for what it's worth, the articles for each of those three names all cite their common origin in the Hebrew ''Jacob ''and its Greek/Latin translations. I don't believe there is any serious dispute about the (Jacobus, Jacques, Jacob, Jacomus, James) family of names.

Please let me know your thoughts. I believe it is bad form for me to revert your reversion, but I continue to think my edits made the article better. --] (]) 14:14, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
:Jacque is French for Jack. -] ] 09:47, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
::Do you have a good citation for that? Here is what the Misplaced Pages article on ] says, under the heading "as a given name":
:::'''Jacques''' is the ] equivalent of '']'', ultimately originating from the name ].
:::''Jacques'' is derived from the ] ''Iacobus'', from the ] Ἰακώβος (] Greek Ἰακώβ), from the ] name ] יַעֲקֹב.<sup>]]</sup> (See '']''.) ''James'' is derived from ''Iacomus'', a variant of ''Iacobus''.<sup>]]</sup>
:::As a first name, ''Jacques'' is often phonetically converted to ] as ''Jacob'', ''Jake'' (from ''Jacob''), or '']''. ''Jack'', from ''Jankin'', is usually a diminutive of '']'' but can also be used as a short form for many names derived from ''Jacob'' like ''Jacques''. For example, in French "Jacky" is commonly used as a nickname for ''Jacques'', in Dutch "Jack" is a pet form of ''Jacob'' or ''Jacobus'' along with the other nicknames "Sjaak", "Sjaakie" and "Jaak". In Swedish, it is "Jacke" for ''Jacob'' or ''Jakob'' and in German it is "Jackel" or "Jockel" for ''Jakob''.<sup>]]</sup>
::So the best equivalents would be James or Jacob; Jack might be OK; and Charles (which is what is also in the Frere Jacques article) has no basis at all, unless you have some contrary information. If so, I hope you will share it. --] (]) 20:13, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

== Civility ==

I fully understand that you think CST is quackery and medical fraud and such. Having said that, I suggest that you just discuss content and not the editors consisten with Misplaced Pages policy. Thank you. ] (]) 16:54, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
:Perhaps you should lead by example? -] ] 17:14, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
::if I have been addressing you on the talk page instead of the content, please let me know so I properly can apologize. ] (]) 17:28, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
:::It appears you are a bit of a white night. How about hospitals being the 3rd leading cause of preventable death?] (]) 14:52, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

== Apology ==

I am sorry. I didn't understand what you meant. I was just testing my activities on wikipedia. ] (]) 08:39, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

== Unreliable Source ==

Hi, I saw that my edit was reverted, and as I'm relatively new to Misplaced Pages editing I wanted to reach out and ask for clarification on the specific reasoning that you felt that this should be reverted? What is the distinction in your mind between this source, and a similar source that you would consider to be reputable by the guidelines provided by Misplaced Pages for source reliability? (which I've just read through to better understand Misplaced Pages's take on this). <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 10:55, 11 August 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:A crowd sourced website does not meet ]. -] ] 11:31, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
::The platform in question has both user-generated content (a forum) and administration-generated content (a blog), and it's clear when you look at the source that it is not user-generated/crowd-sourced, but an article that has been produced by the administration of the site. I have reverted your edit, based on the fact that your reasoning for removing it does not conform with referenced guidelines in ], as the source is provably not "crowd-sourced". ] (]) 08:03, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
:::No worries, I have fixed the page. You need to understand ] or your experience here at Misplaced Pages will not be a pleasant one. ] ] 09:45, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
::::FYI, I have left a welcome note, and a reading suggestion on your Talk page. -] ] 10:18, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
:::::I appreciate your clarification on what the issue is, Roxy. The reasoning you provided initially was that the source was "crowd sourced", so forgive me for addressing the concern that you gave me directly with refutation. Now I am of the understanding that your reasoning for editing is because the nature the topic is medically-based, which requires enhanced prudence when sourcing compared to other material. So that my experience here at Wikpedia will be as far from unpleasant as possible, with minimal friction, would you be able to confirm that the reasoning for you edit is actually not relating to "crowd sourcing", but to greater strenuity when sourcing for medical topics (with reference to ] a number of times)? <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 10:29, 18 August 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Not vandalism ==

How is it vandalism to cite google scholar? Your own user page claims that wikipedia is biased to scholarly sources.] (]) 14:50, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
:I've just given you a final warning. -] ] 15:21, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
::You need to give a reason for your edits.] (]) 15:43, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

==Incivility==
Wot up dog?
Please kindly refrain from subtly implying that I am an idiot on my talkpage. The word is an archayic medical term which was replaced by the term "severe mental retardation". Neither of which are very nice. I know you get away with a lot on here, but I'm pretty sure that using offensive derogatory terms in this way is a breach of ] and if you do it again I will have to report it on the ]. I also want to say that if you ever need someone to talk to or a shoulder to cry on I am here for you.
With love and empathy] (]) 15:47, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
:But you were the one that used the word, and I was making a determined effort not to be as you put it, incivil. When you are no longer a newbie, and have some wikichops, then you'll understand ]. good luck. -] ] 17:53, 16 August 2019 (UTC)


Quick note. It just occurred to me that this section could be construed, by a malevolent entity, as an invitation to edit on my behalf, a violation WP:CANVASS.
==Got Fibro? These guys don't care==
There is a research study that clearly documents Fibro in people. The science is sound. Rather than helpfully edit the line so that it doesn't fail some arbitrary set of rules....let's just remove it!


In fact, it is a to do list of things to look at on my return to editing. ]the ] 16:03, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
Oh and research trials? FORGET ABOUT IT.


These Wiki editors clearly don't care about the health of people and clearly are interested in spreading decades old ideas about PSYCHOSCHEMATIC sources of pain and suffering. Yeah...all these millions of Americans are MAKING IT ALL UP. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 12:58, 17 August 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Hello IP, nice to see you. What on earth are you on about? It may help communicating if you try to make some sense, instead of incoherant ranting about your problem. Read ] at the same time. -] ] 13:40, 17 August 2019 (UTC)


<s>]</s>, ], ], ] ]the ] 15:22, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
== Category Consumer Fraud on Homeopathy ==


] ]the ] 13:03, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
Hello Mr. Roxy, I'm looking for the discussion on the Homeopathy talk page where it was established that the use of Category Consumer Fraud was appropriate and can't find it. I actually looked for it before doing my edit and what I did find was the ] that I included in my edit summary. And now I looked some more, still can't find it. BTW, while I do agree, personally, that homeopathy is quackery and, in many cases, fraudulent, I came to the conclusion (based on that FAQ page) that the category isn't appropriate. If could be so kind to point to me where this was discussed, I would much appreciate it. Cheers! ]•] 23:22, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
:That link has nothing to do with homeopathy, it is about FAQs ] ] 13:30, 18 August 2019 (UTC) ] ]the ] 07:53, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
]]the ] 11:19, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
::Oh, my mistake, I had placed things the wrong way around. Sorry about that. Fixed it now. Either way, the link was right on my edit summary, which you should have considered before reverting. And you didn't answer my question. ]•] 13:33, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
:::I didn’t read your edsum. Content discussion belongs at the article talk page, where other interested editors can see any discussions. ] ] 13:45, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
::::It does, and I'm not trying to discuss content, I am going from the assumption that you claim this has already been discussed, and asking you where this discussion happened. In your edit summary, you wrote ''Return established cat''. I interpreted this as meaning that there had been some prior discussion where this had been, well, established. So, going back to my initial comment here, I'm asking you to show me where it was established. Or is my interpretation of your edit summary wrong? If so, can you clarify, please? ]•] 14:54, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
:::::The words "Health fraud" are contained in the article. Article content discussion belongs at the article talk page, where other interested editors can see any discussions. ] ] 16:07, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
::::::I know that the words "health fraud" are contained in the article, that's not what I asked. Look, I don't like to assume things, but it really looks like you're avoiding my question. Take your time, but please answer. What did you mean by "''established cat''"? Where has this been established in the discussion history of the article? Or are you claiming that since these words are contained in the article this means the category in "established"? If so, that's not a valid argument. Are you aware of the past discussions that resulted in the FAQ I mentioned earlier? Are you taking this into account? I really think we're on the same side here where science is concerned, but I'm looking for a resolution based on WP policy and past discussions, and I don't feel like your answers so far have been very satisfying.]•] 20:48, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
::::::: {{re|VdSV9}} This editor edit warred on ] over that category too. He only stopped when I threatened to report him. Roxy, as I've told you before, this editing pattern is disruptive. Show sources and discuss content, please. --] (]) 22:53, 20 August 2019 (UTC)


:] ]the ] 13:38, 19 November 2023 (UTC) ] ]the ] 23:55, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
== Worried about why my content ==
::] ]the ] 21:07, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
:::] ]the ] 01:00, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
::::] (two thingies, indeed) ]the ] 19:06, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
:::::] ]the ] 09:31, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
::::::] ]the ] 14:48, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
:::::::] (Namechange incorrect?) ]the ] 18:07, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
::::::::] ]the ] 20:50, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::] lead ]the ] 15:59, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::] "melt blowing is not main article" ]the ] 11:14, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::] (Opening para of lead) Teesdale is not tees valley ]the ] 15:54, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::] English. ] <s>men dont lactate!!</s> ]the ] 08:54, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
edits by Jcaptieux. ]the ] 09:52, 11 March 2024 (UTC)


:] ]the ] 06:52, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
Hello Mr. Roxy. I've added a description about artesunate on 11:12, 18 August 2019. The content I added was with citation. Could you please tell me why my revision is innaccurate, thanks.
:: ]the ] 08:10, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
the content is :
::: on cashmere wool. Also TNT unsourced filler. ]the ] 12:16, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
invented by ] in 1977.<ref>{{Cite book|url=http://worldcat.org/oclc/1016908376|title=Artemisinin-based and other antimalarials : detailed account of studies by Chinese scientists who discovered and developed them|last=Li, Guoqiao author.|isbn=9780128132111|oclc=1016908376}}</ref>
:your reference doesn’t support your edit. She didn’t invent artesunate. ] ] 13:15, 18 August 2019 (UTC) ::::]. Ist pic is not velvet. ]. ]the ] 11:20, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
:::::] ]. ]the ] 20:21, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
{{reflist-talk}}
::::::Edits by ]the ] 18:21, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Hi, in page 20 of this book, Chapter C: Artesunate, it shows the inventor of artesunate is Liu Xu. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 11:16, 19 August 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Then the book is wrong. '''She did not "invent" Artesunate''' ] ] 11:40, 19 August 2019 (UTC) :::::::] Natural fibres section baloney. ]the ] 08:03, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
::::::::]. ]the ] 12:42, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Sorry you made me confused. Liu Xu is the inventor of Artesunate actually, he had received several prize due to his invention and, of course, the National Invention Patent. Or you means I need use another word, like synthesis? <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 12:12, 2 September 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:I think that the word "invent" does not mean what you think it means, perhaps the word "discover" is what you want? -] ] 13:02, 2 September 2019 (UTC) ::::::::: ]the ] 15:01, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::: Tapas acupressure technique handwaving ]the ] 09:44, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::. ]the ] 16:28, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::Reverted & warned. ] (]) 16:47, 1 July 2024 (UTC) ;) ]the ] 15:56, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::] needs rewrite or TNT. ]the ] 15:57, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::: ]the ] 14:32, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::: ]the ] 04:05, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::: ]the ] 21:03, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::: ]the ] 15:39, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::<s> ]the ] 13:08, 6 October 2024 (UTC)</s> -]the ] 04:35, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::::] full of innaccuracy. ]the ] 08:06, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::::: ]the ] 12:00, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::::::] first sentence spelling!!! - ]the ] 16:30, 10 November 2024 (UTC)


== CMTBard == == Follow up ==


Following El C's suggestion, your offer on the eponymous ANI thread, and your further comments on this page, a return to editing would not be possible unless I took up your offer. A surprising offer, given our interaction history.
] --] (]) 22:17, 19 August 2019 (UTC)


What say you ]? ]the ] 10:18, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
== ] ==


Roxy, I have left a comment on the talk page of this article for you to respond to. ] (]) 09:11, 22 August 2019 (UTC) :{{tps}} Roxy, to fix the ping, you need to link ] in a wholly new post, beginning on a new line and signed. (This post of mine has pinged them now.) ] &#124; ] 11:21, 9 November 2023 (UTC).
: It would be good to see you return to constructive editing and good standing with this community, Roxy. You have a beautiful Song. I hope you are well. --]] 11:52, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
::Thanks Bish. Rosie? Wolfie? ;) My health issues are on the back burner atm, and I'm feeling better than the first half of the year, since my last episode in hospital. Health indicaters are all good. ]the ] 12:44, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
:::That's great! Bishzilla and the fly you <s>stole</s> <u>borrowed</u> from me are both delighted to hear it! ] &#124; ] 13:51, 9 November 2023 (UTC).
:::: I echo the Bish's sentiments. I'm so thrilled you are doing better. Let's keep playing that tune, okay? Rosie, Wolfie, and myself all agree. Ha! --]] 14:00, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
:Hey. The offer is still good, though I will be a bit slow to reply for a while. There's a medication shortage that's affecting me right now, and it's been making focusing and ordering my thoughts difficult (yay unmanaged ADHD!). I'm happy to "push" through it for you, there's no date right now for the meds being restocked unfortunately, but it will slow down my response time while I'm unmedicated. ] (]) 19:19, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
::I'm glad to hear that Roxy is feeling better, and I wish good things for Sideswipe – I hope ''you'' feel better as soon as possible. I, too, would welcome Roxy coming back, but I also think that this is possible '''only''' with a very substantive engagement with Sideswipe's very generous efforts. --] (]) 23:35, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
:::I think that a very suitable wikiadage to use here is that ''there is no deadline.'' SS, I am grateful for your efforts to help/advise/discuss, but your priorites must be for your own well being, not for me, a stranger on the internetz. ]the ] 08:20, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
::::I'm mostly OK, primarily just tired, easily distractable, and having to use more conscious effort at ordering my thoughts at the moment. Unmedicated ADHD is...not fun. Alas my specialist isn't returning any phone calls, my pharmacist has no idea when the meds will be back in stock, and information from the medication's sole manufacturer distributed via support groups is that it won't be fully back in stock until at least April next year. Though whether or not that date will slip remains to be seen (has slipped once already). ] (]) 16:56, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::{{re|Sideswipe9th}} I'm so sorry to hear that. Is there a doctor you can talk to about possible alternative medications? I'm dealing with something where I have to take pain medications pending surgery, and I know from my own recent experience that it can be horrific getting prescriptions refilled when I need them. For what little it's worth, you have my best wishes. --] (]) 20:48, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::{{re|Tryptofish}} Yes and no. I have a specialist, who is responsible for the prescription and monitoring of the medication, but they've been utterly unresponsive since my last contact with them at the start of October, shortly after the medication shortage alert was issued by the NHS. I've been trying to get in contact with them for weeks now, and have had no response other than "we'll call you as soon as we can" from a receptionist.
::::::There are a few alternative meds I could be prescribed, one of which has shortages in a few specific brand name variants but is otherwise generally available. Unfortunately only the specialist can prescribe it, as all of the common ADHD meds in the UK are controlled substances. While my GP is happy to issue my repeat scripts as usual, and accommodate alternate dose requests of the same med (eg, if I was on 40mg of it, they'd be happy to prescribe 2x20mg if it was available) there's nothing else they can do. So I'm stuck here in limbo until either the specialist contacts me, or the meds are restocked at my pharmacist's distributors. And even if the later happens, there's no guarantee that I won't have the same issue 28 days later when I need to get the following month's prescription, at least until the sole manufacturer is able to get their production issues sorted. ] (]) 21:04, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::::Forgive me for yet another ping ], but you've got mail, a few days ago. I used the wikipedia email thingy, then disabled my wiki email again. ]the ] 13:24, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
::::::::(Just noted that SS hasn't edited for a few days) ]the ] 11:46, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::I hope that's not because of their health problems, Roxy. Possibly a ygm notice on their page might help, so I've added one. ] &#124; ] 12:24, 8 April 2024 (UTC).
::::::::::Thanks Bish. ]the ] 12:46, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Hey Roxy,
::::::::Sorry I've been on holiday with my family for Easter for the last week and haven't been near a computer (too busy winding up my nephew with Mario Kart). Still not fully back yet, I'll respond to your email towards the end of the week if that's OK? ] (]) 15:01, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::No worries SS, we have no deadline. I prefer GT6 on PS4 myself. ]the ] 15:38, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::Hey Roxy,
::::::::::Sorry, something urgent came up (non health related, but does affect my safety) yesterday evening that means I won't be able to respond to your email for a while. I don't have any timescales for when I'll be able to respond right now I'm afraid. ] (]) 15:35, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::No worries SS, Thanks. ]the ] 16:08, 13 April 2024 (UTC)


== I'm sorry to see you're gone ==
:Roxy, I have posted this dispute for review at ]. ] (]) 00:12, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


I saw a talk page discussion you'd been in and I followed it here to see you'd been blocked. I don't think we've ever interacted but I've seen your username many times in pseudoscience related articles, often improving them greatly. I just wanted to say it was always good to see you in talk page discussions arguing for neutrality, actual reality-based neutrality that is, over POV-pushing. I'm sorry you're no longer able to edit, at least for now, but I wanted to thank you for all the fantastic edits you have made. I also hope you're doing well if you're still in the hospital and that you recover soon. ] (]) 23:16, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
::Roxy, a Third Opinion has been posted on the talk page of this article, which supports my edit. I have also posted a question for you on that talk page. ] (])
:::Your link above is not helpful at all. -] ] 06:48, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
::::I'm not sure what you mean by "not helpful" but my request for a third opinion was removed from the Active Disagreements list by {{ping|user:Work permit}}, per standard procedure, after he responded on the talk page of the TVBH article. You can see this on the "View History" tab of the ] page. ] (]) 07:54, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
:::::It would have been helpful to link to the 3O request itself, rather than some policy page which wasn't helpful. I know what a third opinion is, but it's moot now anyway. -] ] 08:06, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
::::::That's what I just told you, Roxy. I did indeed link to the location of the request itself, which was only one line - which you can view via the {{WP:3}} article history over there. But apparently, by the time you followed my link, {{u|Work permit}} had already deleted the request, as is their standard practice once a request has been fulfilled. And now let's have an end of all this and go our separate ways. ] (]) 08:30, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


'''ROXY -''' What on earth is wrong with you? You just reverted me AGAIN. After you just got through saying on the talk page of TVBH that you "accepted the outcome" of the WP:3O comments, and on this talk page here, you said "the point is moot now." This is ridiculous, and your action just contradicted your own words. I'm going to bed now but for sure I will be going to Admins Noticeboard tomorrow. ] (]) 10:42, 23 August 2019 (UTC) :Oh dear after reading further into it I now have to distance myself very slightly, everything I said in my first message fully applies but I don't mean to weigh in on any of the drama that resulted in your block. Other than to say that I hope if you are unblocked you're able to continue improving articles about pseudoscience and other topics like you always did. :) ] (]) 23:40, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
:..and the page has now been protected against your editwarring. -] ] 10:53, 23 August 2019 (UTC) ::Me too!!! ]the ] 08:11, 18 March 2024 (UTC)


== Reminder to vote now to select members of the first U4C ==
== Platform restriction ==


<section begin="announcement-content" />
Hi Roxy, RE adding the link UFTmachine.com, you declined the link due to "works best on Chrome and Safari". This is old text and it does work on most browsers now including Firefox. So, I will remove this text. Thanks. ] (]) 15:51, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
:''] ''


Dear Wikimedian,
:Which text will you be removing ]?. -] ] 16:48, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


You are receiving this message because you previously participated in the UCoC process.
Hi, I have removed all references to browser support limitations. It was in two areas, now removed. ] (]) 17:53, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
:I dont understand what you are talking about, what text have you removed, can you provide a diff? You do not appear to have removed ''any text''? -] ] 18:14, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


This is a reminder that the voting period for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) ends on May 9, 2024. Read the information on the ] to learn more about voting and voter eligibility.
Hi Roxy, I was speaking about my editing of the UFTmachine.com website. I removed the out of date offending text from this site. So there is no diff to provide. FYI, the suggested text for inclusion in the "External links" section is: Learn about and simulate six of nature's fundamental constants. For STEM students and physics enthusiasts." Hope this clears up any confusion... ] (]) 22:32, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


The Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) is a global group dedicated to providing an equitable and consistent implementation of the UCoC. Community members were invited to submit their applications for the U4C. For more information and the responsibilities of the U4C, please ].
:] --] (]) 00:15, 24 August 2019 (UTC)


Please share this message with members of your community so they can participate as well.
== Reverted short description. ==


On behalf of the UCoC project team,<section end="announcement-content" />
Hi Roxy, I have no problem with a sort description being improved, but deleting does not help get them done. If you know a better short description for fiber, please add it to the article. It does not have to be perfect, just better. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; ] ]: 11:52, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
:Hi Peter, I'm afraid that the wiki style of short description doesn't work very well for "fibre" in that a fibre cannot be adequately defined in the short description format required by wikipedia. The closest you can reasonably get is describing a substance "very significantly longer than it is wide"; but a stalk of wheat fits, as does a blade of grass. neither are fibres. I believe it better to have no description at all rather than an inadequate one that is wrong, particularly as the article itself isn't that bad. If we can find a reasonable short descrip] ] 12:27, 27 August 2019 (UTC)


] 23:10, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
==G. Edward Griffin==
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Hello! I see you reverted my edit in the intro. I did so because the claim of falsehood requires a citation or some kind of source. Can you provide one? I’m happy to look at the source! Thanks. ] (]) 12:55, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
PS I hope your dog’s health has improved. ] (]) 12:57, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
:the sources are in the article and the lead, even though they aren’t necessary in the lead. The real Roxy died three year ago, she was wonderful, thank you for asking. ] ] 14:23, 29 August 2019 (UTC)


== Edits == == Not yet, unfortunately ==


Just wanted to note that it is my intention to appeal my CBAN soon, after more or less twelve months. I have not as yet had any meaningful discussion with SS, the outcome of which I would like to post here prior to appealing. -]the ] 17:44, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
Why did you remove my edits on the Osteopathy page without explanation? ] (]) 15:28, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
:Be sure, first, to give serious thought to how you will approach the issue of not making trans editors and their friends uncomfortable. --] (]) 21:07, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
:I didn’t. ] ] 15:43, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
::I have, believe me. - ]the ] 22:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
:I said some insensitive and goading things to you in the aftermath of your block and I’m genuinely sorry. That said, I absolutely stand by supporting that block based on how you acted ''at the time''. I think you are a good and passionate editor but you cannot let your passion turn into extremism. There’s no need to verbally lacerate people over disputes on an online encyclopedia, no matter how important you think they are. I’d love to see you editing constructively again, but ''only'' if you respect ] and ] and don’t say anything marginalizing, disrespectful or tasteless about trans people. I also hope your medical issues have cleared up, even a little. ] (]) 10:40, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
::Thank you for this, I appreciate it. Apology aside, I think you are quite correct in the rest of your advice. thanks again, ]the ] 15:24, 30 July 2024 (UTC)


== Rayon == == Pending CBAN appeal ==


I cannot believe it has been about eighteen months, a time I think is punishment enough for my uncivil behaviour.
Hello Roxy, you just reverted my edit on ], explaining that the source is unreliable being a blog.<br>
I sincerely thank you for your vigilance.<br>
], forgive the ping but I wondered if you would comment here about your (appreciated) suggestion to accept Sideswipes offer to discuss my "almost apology" with me. I have waited some time, but they are at the moment absent from the project. (I hope their meds situation improves asap). I appreciate this was just a suggestion on your part. I note that during that time my apologies were profuse. I also appreciate your closing the eponymous ANI thread that decided my punishment early, as you were correct imho, it would only have become worse for me.
Misplaced Pages policies can accept blog references in a number of circumstances (Please refer to ]). I think such circumstances apply in this case:
* it is hosted by wordpress and it is called blog, yes, but it is run by a reputable entity, the Moroccan artisans association Anou. They have their own website
* they are supported by the British Council
* the text shows that they have done serious research
* it has not been contested by anyone, and there is no other reference arguing the contrary, except for shops with vested interests
I hope you find that these credentials are enough to include the referenced edit, it is relevant to a lot of people.
--] (]) 16:37, 29 August 2019 (UTC)


Any other suggestions or comments from anybody lurking would be appreciated.
:That's interesting. I did some work with the British Council in Rabat many years ago. Cactus rayon is something I've never heard of however, and sourcing it to a blog is certainly not acceptable. It is also totally undue for the lead, ''even if you could find a reliable source''. -] ] 17:54, 29 August 2019 (UTC)


]the ] 13:03, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
::well, it is not "cactus rayon". They are selling standard cellulose rayon imported from different places, but they are labelling it "cactus silk" pretending it is made by hand by Berber women. It is a clear case of mislabelling, and it fits perfectly in the corresponding existing section of the article called precisely "mislabelling". If you think this is undue, you should eliminate the whole "mislabelling" section.<br>
::As for the source, I insist, wikipedia policies do allow blogs as references in certain circumstances, so the debate is not whether blogs are acceptable, the debate is whether those circumstances apply. If you disagree with wikipedia policies you should try to change the policy, not just enforce your own idea.--] (]) 09:04, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
:::You need to learn to indent your posts on Talk pages when responding to somebody, using colons. I have done it for you this time. As regards your proposal to use a blog for sourcing, my answer is no, according to our P&G. Please make any further comments at the Rayon Talk page, so that other interested editors can see discussion related to the article. Thanks. -] ] 09:57, 30 August 2019 (UTC)


:Hello. I'm afraid that don't see any such suggestion here by myself to even be reminded what it might have consisted of. But even irrespective of that, I am not around for the next little while to assist with much of anything. And even if I were, I can't lift a community ban single-handedly. Relatedly, as the admin who closed the discussion about the community ban—which again, I do not have a firm recollection of at the time of writing—I'm unlikely to be the one to do the same with any appeals. Sorry, I'm writing in haste. Best wishes, ] 19:04, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
== Describing the qualifications of Stamets ==
::It was a helpful suggestion you made when closing the ANI thread, and Cbanning me. I appreciate that this will go to ANI for a community decision, so will do so without said discussion. I have been waiting for some months. Thanks. ]the ] 23:59, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:::It should go to ], not ]. --] (]) 00:25, 6 January 2025 (UTC)


:Hi, Roxy. Before this gets underway, I want to preemptively ask you a question. During the time of the ban (not quite a year ago), you made this edit, here on your talk page: , saying {{tq|men dont lactate!!}}. Obviously, that's biologically true for cis men (outside of ]), but the comment could be seen as insensitive to trans men. Can you provide some context for what you meant when you posted that, or perhaps, do you have different feelings about the post now? --] (]) 23:12, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
Could you review and comment on , please? Many thanks. --] (]) 15:36, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
::I confess I didn't look at your link, guessed, and made a response that you would have thought was really stupid.
::Actually, it was regarding diff. I probably wont do anything looking at it now. ]the ] 23:55, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:::So another editor added a small amount of content, using the terminology "pregnant people". In case you are not aware, there has been a trend in the past year or two to use such language, out of sensitivity to the fact that, on rare occasion, trans men (people who were classified as female at birth, but who live and identify as male) can become pregnant, too. It's biologically possible for trans men to get pregnant, as well as to lactate. If you didn't know about that, that's OK, but now you do know. Obviously, such language use has come with some controversy. Some conservatives object to it, and it was a campaign issue in the recent US election. And even people who are not at all socially conservative, especially older people like me, have a bit of a learning curve to get used to it, because, let's face it, the language construction is unfamiliar.
:::That said, however, I personally am sympathetic to people who use that language, and I'm likewise sympathetic to editors who use that language in our content. I think it's quite understandable if an editor who is trans feels that such language should be used as a matter of inclusiveness, and feels unwelcome if they encounter other editors who oppose such language. Personally, I am in favor of Misplaced Pages being inclusive in this way.
:::So I think that, as you approach your appeal, you should consider this perspective. I would expect that some number of editors would strongly oppose your appeal if they see you saying things like "men don't lactate", and would interpret that as you having failed to learn what the community asked you to learn, as a condition of getting the ban lifted. Indeed, I might even oppose the appeal if I felt that you were failing in that regard. Better you hear that from me now, before things get underway, than for you to be caught unaware after your appeal is filed. --] (]) 00:23, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
::::I'm at a loss. It feels like you have gone entirely out of your way to find fault with what I have said! Do you think I would have deliberately found a way to demean in these circumstances? Your interpretation of a post designed to remind me of something come the time in some future where I would be ''able to do something about it'' is grossly unfair. Look at all those posts in that section of this page - they are responses to things I saw on my watchlist that after a brief look, I feel might require some attention. '''If I didn't know any better,''' It would feel like an assumption of Bad Faith on your part. Aromatherapy is safely outside of GENSEX, and your interpretation never occurred to me. I had no idea that the phrase "pregnant people" was designed to avoid causing offence, and am entirely in favour of inclusivity.
::::Given that, and the fact that I have always valued your opinion, should I delete the post? This thread? Before I appeal? ]the ] 14:31, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::Roxy, it may not sound that way, but I want you to have a successful appeal, and I want you to be back with full editing permissions. What I pointed out is unquestionably something that would be raised against you if you were to file the appeal. Editors are going to look over what you posted during the ban, and they will see it, and there are some who would not hesitate to use it against you. In my opinion, it's a good thing that you were shocked by what I said, because that tells me that it had never occurred to you that what you posted would have appeared to have been in bad faith – and that's the person I know you to be. But I'm 100% certain that there are editors who would hold this against you. That's why I said that I wanted you to hear it from me, ahead of time, instead of being blindsided by it during the appeal.
:::::So here are the things that I'd suggest you consider doing. First, take on board that what you posted, no matter how well-intentioned, can be taken to mean something bad-faith by editors, and be alert to that going forward. (Yes, aromatherapy is not in GENSEX, but gender-based descriptions of people are, and that was in the edit that you noted.) You did not know about that particular language when you posted that note to yourself, but now you do. Some people are sensitive about it, and they have legitimate reasons for that concern. As for what to leave here on your talk page, you might consider striking through that post, instead of deleting it. That's up to you. I would suggest leaving this discussion here, because you will be able to cite it as evidence that you have already engaged with the issue, and (as of the time of the appeal) will be ready to go forward, having already learned what the community wanted you to learn. --] (]) 23:40, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::As always, I'm grateful for your thoughts. I shall draft a statement here in the next couple of days. ]the ] 23:41, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 23:41, 8 January 2025

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Links

Quick note. It just occurred to me that this section could be construed, by a malevolent entity, as an invitation to edit on my behalf, a violation WP:CANVASS.

In fact, it is a to do list of things to look at on my return to editing. Roxy the dog 16:03, 2 July 2024 (UTC)


Field hockey, diff Field lacrosse, Faggot (food), List of fabrics Roxy the dog 15:22, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Yoga nidra Roxy the dog 13:03, 15 October 2023 (UTC) Organic wool Roxy the dog 07:53, 24 October 2023 (UTC) Screen printingRoxy the dog 11:19, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

lllt Roxy the dog 13:38, 19 November 2023 (UTC) Polar fleece Roxy the dog 23:55, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
International Down and Feather Testing Laboratory Roxy the dog 21:07, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
Tufting Roxy the dog 01:00, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
Peter Collins (racing driver) (two thingies, indeed) Roxy the dog 19:06, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
Talk:Cotton duck Roxy the dog 09:31, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
Suzanne A. Rogers Roxy the dog 14:48, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
Talk:Myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (Namechange incorrect?) Roxy the dog 18:07, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
Pease pudding Roxy the dog 20:50, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
Bea Alonzo lead Roxy the dog 15:59, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
Nonwoven fabric "melt blowing is not main article" Roxy the dog 11:14, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
Tees Valley (Opening para of lead) Teesdale is not tees valley Roxy the dog 15:54, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Ysgol David Hughes English. Aromatherapy men dont lactate!! Roxy the dog 08:54, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

edits by Jcaptieux. Roxy the dog 09:52, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Jersey (fabric) Roxy the dog 06:52, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
yarn Roxy the dog 08:10, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
this diff on cashmere wool. Also TNT unsourced filler. Roxy the dog 12:16, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
Velvet. Ist pic is not velvet. Synthetic fiber. Roxy the dog 11:20, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
Velour Acrylic fiber. Roxy the dog 20:21, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Edits by Roxy the dog 18:21, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Textile industry‎ Natural fibres section baloney. Roxy the dog 08:03, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
Complementary and Natural Healthcare Council. Roxy the dog 12:42, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
metamerism Roxy the dog 15:01, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
diff Tapas acupressure technique handwaving Roxy the dog 09:44, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
spammer. Roxy the dog 16:28, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
Reverted & warned. Peaceray (talk) 16:47, 1 July 2024 (UTC) ;) Roxy the dog 15:56, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
Gallbladder flush needs rewrite or TNT. Roxy the dog 15:57, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
clue needed Roxy the dog 14:32, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
diff Roxy the dog 04:05, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
diff Roxy the dog 21:03, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
how many times? Roxy the dog 15:39, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
citogenisis Roxy the dog 13:08, 6 October 2024 (UTC) -Roxy the dog 04:35, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
Cellulose fiber full of innaccuracy. Roxy the dog 08:06, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
Commas. Good grief Roxy the dog 12:00, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
Taboo first sentence spelling!!! - Roxy the dog 16:30, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Follow up

Following El C's suggestion, your offer on the eponymous ANI thread, and your further comments on this page, a return to editing would not be possible unless I took up your offer. A surprising offer, given our interaction history.

What say you User:Sideswipe9th? Roxy the dog 10:18, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Roxy, to fix the ping, you need to link User:Sideswipe9th in a wholly new post, beginning on a new line and signed. (This post of mine has pinged them now.) Bishonen | tålk 11:21, 9 November 2023 (UTC).
It would be good to see you return to constructive editing and good standing with this community, Roxy. You have a beautiful Song. I hope you are well. --ARoseWolf 11:52, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
Thanks Bish. Rosie? Wolfie? ;) My health issues are on the back burner atm, and I'm feeling better than the first half of the year, since my last episode in hospital. Health indicaters are all good. Roxy the dog 12:44, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
That's great! Bishzilla and the fly you stole borrowed from me are both delighted to hear it! Bishonen | tålk 13:51, 9 November 2023 (UTC).
I echo the Bish's sentiments. I'm so thrilled you are doing better. Let's keep playing that tune, okay? Rosie, Wolfie, and myself all agree. Ha! --ARoseWolf 14:00, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
Hey. The offer is still good, though I will be a bit slow to reply for a while. There's a medication shortage that's affecting me right now, and it's been making focusing and ordering my thoughts difficult (yay unmanaged ADHD!). I'm happy to "push" through it for you, there's no date right now for the meds being restocked unfortunately, but it will slow down my response time while I'm unmedicated. Sideswipe9th (talk) 19:19, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
I'm glad to hear that Roxy is feeling better, and I wish good things for Sideswipe – I hope you feel better as soon as possible. I, too, would welcome Roxy coming back, but I also think that this is possible only with a very substantive engagement with Sideswipe's very generous efforts. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:35, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
I think that a very suitable wikiadage to use here is that there is no deadline. SS, I am grateful for your efforts to help/advise/discuss, but your priorites must be for your own well being, not for me, a stranger on the internetz. Roxy the dog 08:20, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
I'm mostly OK, primarily just tired, easily distractable, and having to use more conscious effort at ordering my thoughts at the moment. Unmedicated ADHD is...not fun. Alas my specialist isn't returning any phone calls, my pharmacist has no idea when the meds will be back in stock, and information from the medication's sole manufacturer distributed via support groups is that it won't be fully back in stock until at least April next year. Though whether or not that date will slip remains to be seen (has slipped once already). Sideswipe9th (talk) 16:56, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
@Sideswipe9th: I'm so sorry to hear that. Is there a doctor you can talk to about possible alternative medications? I'm dealing with something where I have to take pain medications pending surgery, and I know from my own recent experience that it can be horrific getting prescriptions refilled when I need them. For what little it's worth, you have my best wishes. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:48, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
@Tryptofish: Yes and no. I have a specialist, who is responsible for the prescription and monitoring of the medication, but they've been utterly unresponsive since my last contact with them at the start of October, shortly after the medication shortage alert was issued by the NHS. I've been trying to get in contact with them for weeks now, and have had no response other than "we'll call you as soon as we can" from a receptionist.
There are a few alternative meds I could be prescribed, one of which has shortages in a few specific brand name variants but is otherwise generally available. Unfortunately only the specialist can prescribe it, as all of the common ADHD meds in the UK are controlled substances. While my GP is happy to issue my repeat scripts as usual, and accommodate alternate dose requests of the same med (eg, if I was on 40mg of it, they'd be happy to prescribe 2x20mg if it was available) there's nothing else they can do. So I'm stuck here in limbo until either the specialist contacts me, or the meds are restocked at my pharmacist's distributors. And even if the later happens, there's no guarantee that I won't have the same issue 28 days later when I need to get the following month's prescription, at least until the sole manufacturer is able to get their production issues sorted. Sideswipe9th (talk) 21:04, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
Forgive me for yet another ping User:Sideswipe9th, but you've got mail, a few days ago. I used the wikipedia email thingy, then disabled my wiki email again. Roxy the dog 13:24, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
(Just noted that SS hasn't edited for a few days) Roxy the dog 11:46, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
I hope that's not because of their health problems, Roxy. Possibly a ygm notice on their page might help, so I've added one. Bishonen | tålk 12:24, 8 April 2024 (UTC).
Thanks Bish. Roxy the dog 12:46, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
Hey Roxy,
Sorry I've been on holiday with my family for Easter for the last week and haven't been near a computer (too busy winding up my nephew with Mario Kart). Still not fully back yet, I'll respond to your email towards the end of the week if that's OK? Sideswipe9th (talk) 15:01, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
No worries SS, we have no deadline. I prefer GT6 on PS4 myself. Roxy the dog 15:38, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
Hey Roxy,
Sorry, something urgent came up (non health related, but does affect my safety) yesterday evening that means I won't be able to respond to your email for a while. I don't have any timescales for when I'll be able to respond right now I'm afraid. Sideswipe9th (talk) 15:35, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
No worries SS, Thanks. Roxy the dog 16:08, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry to see you're gone

I saw a talk page discussion you'd been in and I followed it here to see you'd been blocked. I don't think we've ever interacted but I've seen your username many times in pseudoscience related articles, often improving them greatly. I just wanted to say it was always good to see you in talk page discussions arguing for neutrality, actual reality-based neutrality that is, over POV-pushing. I'm sorry you're no longer able to edit, at least for now, but I wanted to thank you for all the fantastic edits you have made. I also hope you're doing well if you're still in the hospital and that you recover soon. XeCyranium (talk) 23:16, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Oh dear after reading further into it I now have to distance myself very slightly, everything I said in my first message fully applies but I don't mean to weigh in on any of the drama that resulted in your block. Other than to say that I hope if you are unblocked you're able to continue improving articles about pseudoscience and other topics like you always did. :) XeCyranium (talk) 23:40, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
Me too!!! Roxy the dog 08:11, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Reminder to vote now to select members of the first U4C

You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki. Please help translate to other languages.

Dear Wikimedian,

You are receiving this message because you previously participated in the UCoC process.

This is a reminder that the voting period for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) ends on May 9, 2024. Read the information on the voting page on Meta-wiki to learn more about voting and voter eligibility.

The Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) is a global group dedicated to providing an equitable and consistent implementation of the UCoC. Community members were invited to submit their applications for the U4C. For more information and the responsibilities of the U4C, please review the U4C Charter.

Please share this message with members of your community so they can participate as well.

On behalf of the UCoC project team,

RamzyM (WMF) 23:10, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Not yet, unfortunately

Just wanted to note that it is my intention to appeal my CBAN soon, after more or less twelve months. I have not as yet had any meaningful discussion with SS, the outcome of which I would like to post here prior to appealing. -Roxy the dog 17:44, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Be sure, first, to give serious thought to how you will approach the issue of not making trans editors and their friends uncomfortable. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:07, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
I have, believe me. - Roxy the dog 22:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
I said some insensitive and goading things to you in the aftermath of your block and I’m genuinely sorry. That said, I absolutely stand by supporting that block based on how you acted at the time. I think you are a good and passionate editor but you cannot let your passion turn into extremism. There’s no need to verbally lacerate people over disputes on an online encyclopedia, no matter how important you think they are. I’d love to see you editing constructively again, but only if you respect WP:AGF and WP:CIVIL and don’t say anything marginalizing, disrespectful or tasteless about trans people. I also hope your medical issues have cleared up, even a little. Dronebogus (talk) 10:40, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
Thank you for this, I appreciate it. Apology aside, I think you are quite correct in the rest of your advice. thanks again, Roxy the dog 15:24, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Pending CBAN appeal

I cannot believe it has been about eighteen months, a time I think is punishment enough for my uncivil behaviour.

User:El C, forgive the ping but I wondered if you would comment here about your (appreciated) suggestion to accept Sideswipes offer to discuss my "almost apology" with me. I have waited some time, but they are at the moment absent from the project. (I hope their meds situation improves asap). I appreciate this was just a suggestion on your part. I note that during that time my apologies were profuse. I also appreciate your closing the eponymous ANI thread that decided my punishment early, as you were correct imho, it would only have become worse for me.

Any other suggestions or comments from anybody lurking would be appreciated.

Roxy the dog 13:03, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Hello. I'm afraid that don't see any such suggestion here by myself to even be reminded what it might have consisted of. But even irrespective of that, I am not around for the next little while to assist with much of anything. And even if I were, I can't lift a community ban single-handedly. Relatedly, as the admin who closed the discussion about the community ban—which again, I do not have a firm recollection of at the time of writing—I'm unlikely to be the one to do the same with any appeals. Sorry, I'm writing in haste. Best wishes, El_C 19:04, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
It was a helpful suggestion you made when closing the ANI thread, and Cbanning me. I appreciate that this will go to ANI for a community decision, so will do so without said discussion. I have been waiting for some months. Thanks. Roxy the dog 23:59, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
It should go to WP:AN, not WP:ANI. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:25, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
Hi, Roxy. Before this gets underway, I want to preemptively ask you a question. During the time of the ban (not quite a year ago), you made this edit, here on your talk page: , saying men dont lactate!!. Obviously, that's biologically true for cis men (outside of some medical conditions), but the comment could be seen as insensitive to trans men. Can you provide some context for what you meant when you posted that, or perhaps, do you have different feelings about the post now? --Tryptofish (talk) 23:12, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
I confess I didn't look at your link, guessed, and made a response that you would have thought was really stupid.
Actually, it was regarding this diff. I probably wont do anything looking at it now. Roxy the dog 23:55, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
So another editor added a small amount of content, using the terminology "pregnant people". In case you are not aware, there has been a trend in the past year or two to use such language, out of sensitivity to the fact that, on rare occasion, trans men (people who were classified as female at birth, but who live and identify as male) can become pregnant, too. It's biologically possible for trans men to get pregnant, as well as to lactate. If you didn't know about that, that's OK, but now you do know. Obviously, such language use has come with some controversy. Some conservatives object to it, and it was a campaign issue in the recent US election. And even people who are not at all socially conservative, especially older people like me, have a bit of a learning curve to get used to it, because, let's face it, the language construction is unfamiliar.
That said, however, I personally am sympathetic to people who use that language, and I'm likewise sympathetic to editors who use that language in our content. I think it's quite understandable if an editor who is trans feels that such language should be used as a matter of inclusiveness, and feels unwelcome if they encounter other editors who oppose such language. Personally, I am in favor of Misplaced Pages being inclusive in this way.
So I think that, as you approach your appeal, you should consider this perspective. I would expect that some number of editors would strongly oppose your appeal if they see you saying things like "men don't lactate", and would interpret that as you having failed to learn what the community asked you to learn, as a condition of getting the ban lifted. Indeed, I might even oppose the appeal if I felt that you were failing in that regard. Better you hear that from me now, before things get underway, than for you to be caught unaware after your appeal is filed. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:23, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
I'm at a loss. It feels like you have gone entirely out of your way to find fault with what I have said! Do you think I would have deliberately found a way to demean in these circumstances? Your interpretation of a post designed to remind me of something come the time in some future where I would be able to do something about it is grossly unfair. Look at all those posts in that section of this page - they are responses to things I saw on my watchlist that after a brief look, I feel might require some attention. If I didn't know any better, It would feel like an assumption of Bad Faith on your part. Aromatherapy is safely outside of GENSEX, and your interpretation never occurred to me. I had no idea that the phrase "pregnant people" was designed to avoid causing offence, and am entirely in favour of inclusivity.
Given that, and the fact that I have always valued your opinion, should I delete the post? This thread? Before I appeal? Roxy the dog 14:31, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
Roxy, it may not sound that way, but I want you to have a successful appeal, and I want you to be back with full editing permissions. What I pointed out is unquestionably something that would be raised against you if you were to file the appeal. Editors are going to look over what you posted during the ban, and they will see it, and there are some who would not hesitate to use it against you. In my opinion, it's a good thing that you were shocked by what I said, because that tells me that it had never occurred to you that what you posted would have appeared to have been in bad faith – and that's the person I know you to be. But I'm 100% certain that there are editors who would hold this against you. That's why I said that I wanted you to hear it from me, ahead of time, instead of being blindsided by it during the appeal.
So here are the things that I'd suggest you consider doing. First, take on board that what you posted, no matter how well-intentioned, can be taken to mean something bad-faith by editors, and be alert to that going forward. (Yes, aromatherapy is not in GENSEX, but gender-based descriptions of people are, and that was in the edit that you noted.) You did not know about that particular language when you posted that note to yourself, but now you do. Some people are sensitive about it, and they have legitimate reasons for that concern. As for what to leave here on your talk page, you might consider striking through that post, instead of deleting it. That's up to you. I would suggest leaving this discussion here, because you will be able to cite it as evidence that you have already engaged with the issue, and (as of the time of the appeal) will be ready to go forward, having already learned what the community wanted you to learn. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:40, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
As always, I'm grateful for your thoughts. I shall draft a statement here in the next couple of days. Roxy the dog 23:41, 8 January 2025 (UTC)