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Past talk: ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] Past talk: ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ]



Please put new stuff at the bottom, where I'll see it. Please put new stuff at the bottom, where I'll see it.
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== Warning messages ==
==MfD nomination of ]==
] ], a page which you created or substantially contributed to, has been nominated for ]. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at ] and please be sure to ] with four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>). You are free to edit the content of ] during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you.<!-- Template:MFDWarning --> ] (]) 22:31, 5 January 2019 (UTC)


Hi David. I don't know who to ask about this, but thought you might know. There are a few sources that have come to RSN that aren't really in need of full deprecation, but that are wasting editors time by being reused and readded. Take for instance ], a source that was both UGC and circular but was needing continuous clean up by the editors of the astronomic objects project. Ultimately deprecation was used so a warning appeared if you try to add it, stopping it from being a timesink. But really it didn't need the other aspects of deprecation. I was looking to find out how we got to the current deprecation process, and how editors went about getting it setup, as part of thinking about a slightly different solution for these sources. A different setup with a warning about UGC, self published, circular sources etc, rather than the deprecation one. I'm waffling on. -- <small>LCU</small> ''']''' <small>''«]» °]°''</small> 01:00, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
== Edits to Apical Group ==
:so the history is the looooong RFC on the Daily Mail, which then opened a process for ruling other sources such obvious wastes of time that they could be similarly classed as almost never to be used - I would go through the deprecation RFCs in rough historical order to get an idea of how it developed as an idea.
:UGC is its own class of thing, and you can see the reasoning behind deprecation: that some editors are so persistent in wanting to use known bad sources that you eventually have to make a rule that says "no." Even as all new rules are bad - ] (]) 14:34, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


==Happy First Edit Day!==
Hi David,
<!-- ##RW UNDERDATE## -->
You have flagged several sources as being unreliable, including EcoBusiness, an independent media outlet focused on sustainability in Asia which qualifies them as a subject expert. You have also incorrectly flagged Kontan, an independent Indonesian media portal, as being a non-primary source, when it is. Thank you. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 04:04, 10 January 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
{| style="width: 80%; margin: 4px auto; padding: .2em; border: 1px solid #CC9999; background-color: Yellow;"
:First is not a third-party ], second is a press release reprint hence a primary source - ] (]) 07:16, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
|style="text-align:center"|]

|style="text-align:left" width="100%"|Happy First Edit Day, '''David Gerard''', from the ]! '''Have a great day!''' ] (]) 04:45, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
==Justin MacMahan==
Hello David, I see you flagged this name in the past due to credibility issues, can you please release the lock up? I have a Daily Fantasy Expert and Sports Betting Guru of the same name who I feel deserves attention. He is often on many radio programs and has a huge following in the industry. As DFS and Sports betting gets more coverage as a game of skill I think an expert like this should be notable. There is a great deal of algo number crunching and game knowledge, like the movie Money Ball. Hope to hear back. 16:54, 11 January 2019 (UTC)] (])

:Probably the best thing to do is to create a good, really well-sourced, draft article that you think would pass Misplaced Pages standards, then submit it at ] - ] (]) 17:17, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

== Deleted Indodax page ==

Hello David Gerard,
I'm the editor of Indodax page that just recently got deleted, I want to thank you for your hard work and hope I can retrieve the material of said page for future reference and possibly for improvement. Thank you. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 10:54, 16 January 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Deleted IOTA_(cryptocurrency) page ==
Hello David,
I noticed you immediately deleted the page. As stated in the Talks page, I want to start a discussion on making the page purely informative. I have tried to conform to all the guidelines, but as an Employee, I cannot be purely objective. That is why I requested feedback to the page.

Please let me know how I can improve it in order to not be "Unambiguous advertising or promotion".

Thank you,

] (]) 15:08, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi David,

I m not affiliated to the iota foundation, but i do use their technology, and i m responsible for large parts of the french wiki page:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/IOTA_(cryptomonnaie_et_technologie)

Could you please stop removing the english page? And tell us what s wrong with its current content?

Thank you

== Conflicts of interest ==
Hello David,</br>
You are apparently the author of a sensationalist polemic, ''Attack of the 50 foot blockchain''. Sensationalist polemics have their uses, so this is not an insult, but have you considered declaring this monstrous conflict of interests (applying to any edits/deletions that you comment on and/or undertake in Misplaced Pages crypto-asset articles)? First, it would set a good example to all opinionated and discourteous editors. Second, it would help readers and contributors to decide for themselves if your objectivity is warped by a desire to sell your book.

The irony of making this observation anonymously has not escaped me. My answer is that by neither confirming nor denying that I'm Satoshi Nakamoto, I may perhaps persuade you to judge my words on their intrinsic merits or demerits. Happy editing! ] (]) 15:38, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

:I am indeed a subject-matter expert. I strongly suggest you read ] - ] (]) 15:51, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
::Thank you, I've read it, and ] too. If ever I do any editing myself, perhaps I'll try my luck with the ''subject-matter expert'' loophole. Sorry, forgot to sign! Here you go: ] (]) 19:05, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

:::I suspect you have greatly misunderstood ], but anyway - ] (]) 19:32, 18 January 2019 (UTC)


Agree David Gerard has an conflict of interest when it comes to editing cryptocurrency articles (which he does a lot of). Critiquing any new technology is a good thing and I greatly appreciate your efforts to do so. But I feel any edits you make will have unintended bias. ] (]) 04:00, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

:If you think you have a case, you know where ] is - ] (]) 09:32, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

== Solidus ==

That the article is already at AfD, ] is a far handy tool to make the same observations than a tag-bombing. Best,]] 09:44, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

== Hu-manity.co ==

Dear David, you deleted a page where the community was still in discussion and debate. This was abrupt, and seemed unwarranted. Could you share why the surgeon conclusion, in the midst of an ongoing discussion? - See page here - https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Hu-manity.co ] (]) 17:59, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
:Deletion discussions normally run for a week. This one had been extended twice, and it was eight days after the previous extension. In any case, the article was eminently G11-able crypto spam, its creator getting banned for a year for such - ] (]) 18:17, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

== ''Facto Post'' – Issue 20 – 31 January 2019 ==

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| <span style="font-size: 110%;">''Facto Post'' – Issue 20 – 31 January 2019</span>

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;Everything flows (and certainly data does)
Recently Jimmy Wales has made the point that ] take much of their data from Misplaced Pages, one way or another. So as well as getting Spotify to play '']'' for you, they may be able to answer the question "is the Pope Catholic?" Possibly by asking for disambiguation (]?).
] device using the ] service in voice search showdown with the Google rival on an ]]]
Headlines about ]es are now familiar, but the unannounced circulation of information raises other issues. One of those is ] stated as "bad data drives out good". Misplaced Pages and now Wikidata have been criticised on related grounds: what if their content, unattributed, is taken to have a higher standing than Wikimedians themselves would grant it? See ] for the usual quip about "law and sausages", and why one shouldn't watch them in the making.

Misplaced Pages has now turned 18, so should act like as adult, as well as being treated like one. The Web itself turns 30 some time between March and November this year, per ]. If the ] by Google exemplifies ] Web technology gaining authority, contra ], Wikimedians still have a role in its critique. But not just with the teenage skill of ].

There is more to beating Gresham than exposing the ] and ], where ] does do a great job. Placeholders must be detected, and working with Wikidata is a good way to understand how having one statement as data can blind us to replacing it by a more accurate one. An example that is important to ] is that, firstly, the term itself needs considerable unpacking, because just being able to read material online is a poor relation of "open"; and secondly, trying to get Creative Commons license information into Wikidata shows up issues with classes of license (such as ]) standing for the actual license in major repositories. Detailed investigation shows that "everything flows" exacerbates the issue. But Wikidata can solve it.
;Links
* ] for 18th birthday celebrations
* , with "fake news", Jimmy Wales, Wikidata and more (health warning for those with tune allergy)
* , Stephen Harrison, 28 January 2019, ''Slate''
* , Naomi Gordon, 28 January 2019, harpersbazaar.com
* , Martin Poulter blogpost, 24 January 2019, Bodleian Digital Library
* , Magnus Manske blogpost, 24 January 2019, on Wikidata tech support for an image donation by ]
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==Disputed non-free use rationale for File:King Trigger River 7&#39;&#39; Chrysalis 1982.jpg==
] (]) 10:53, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
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== ''Facto Post'' – Issue 21 – 28 February 2019 ==

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| <span style="font-size: 110%;">''Facto Post'' – Issue 21 – 28 February 2019</span>

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;What is a systematic review?

]s are basic building blocks of ], surveys of existing literature devoted typically to a definite question that aim to bring out scientific conclusions. They are principled in a way Wikipedians can appreciate, taking a critical view of their sources.
]
] in 2014 wrote (link below) " : the "information architecture" of evidence based medicine (if you can tolerate such a phrase) is a chaotic, ad hoc, poorly connected ecosystem of legacy projects. In some respects the whole show is still run on paper, like it's the 19th century." Is there a Wikidatan in the house? Wouldn't some machine-readable content that is ] help?
]
Most likely it would, but the arcana of systematic reviews and how they add value would still need formal handling. The ] dates from 2009, with an update started in 2018. The concerns there include the corpus of papers used: how selected and filtered? Now that Wikidata has a 20.9 million item bibliography, one can at least pose questions. Each systematic review is a tagging opportunity for a bibliography. Could that tagging be reproduced by a query, in principle? Can it even be second-guessed by a query (i.e. simulated by a protocol which translates into SPARQL)? Homing in on the arcana, do the inclusion and filtering criteria translate into metadata? At some level they must, but are these metadata explicitly expressed in the articles themselves? The answer to that is surely "no" at this point, but can ] find them? Again "no", right now. ] doesn't just happen.

Actually these questions lack originality. It should be noted though that ], the reliable sources guideline used here for health information, hinges on the assumption that the usefully systematic reviews of biomedical literature can be recognised. Its nutshell summary, normally the part of a guideline with the highest density of common sense, allows ]s in general validity, but ] qualifies that indication heavily. Process wonkery about systematic reviews definitely has merit.

;Links
*, resources page from Duke University Medical Library & Archives.
*, ''Bad Science'' blogpost 5 November 2014, ].
*, workshop for ContentMine 23 March 2019, with systematic review process diagram. Also for tickets, taking place in Makespace, 16 Mill Lane.
* of PRISMA, for registration of systematic review protocols.
*, wikien-l mailing list, September 2006.
*, xkcd cartoon.
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== Plugin++ ==
Hi David

Re Peter Ryan Police.
Please delete Greater Manchester after Little Hulton.
Greater Manchester wasn’t invented then and is not relevant to his service in Lancashire.
Many thanks

Philip Walsh
Served with Peter Ryan. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 21:56, 19 March 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Hi, the <kbd>blp=yes</kbd> in ] ended up in the archive bot parameters, I removed it. You know the ], if it's a bug please report it or do whatever is necessary (stop the bot, get its account infinitely blocked, inform the WMF, ask for an UN intervention&hellip;){{=)}} &ndash;] (]) 23:37, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
==Orphaned non-free image File:Lions Commentary on UNIX 6th Edition with Source Code.jpg==
] Thanks for uploading ''']'''. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Misplaced Pages under a ]. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Misplaced Pages. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Misplaced Pages (see ]).

Note that any non-free images not used in any '''articles''' will be deleted after seven days, as described in ]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Di-orphaned fair use-notice --> --] (]) 17:40, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

== ''Facto Post'' – Issue 22 – 28 March 2019 ==

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| <span style="font-size: 110%;">''Facto Post'' – Issue 22 – 28 March 2019</span>

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;When in the cloud, do as the APIs do
Half a century ago, it was the era of the ], with its air-conditioned room, twitching tape-drives, and appearance in the title of a spy novel '']'' then made into a Hollywood film. Now we have ], with ] and the ] as quotidian: this text is being typed on a ].
]]]
The term ] or API is 50 years old, and refers to a type of software library as well as the interface to its use. While a ] is what you need to get high-level code executed by a mainframe, an API out in the cloud somewhere offers a chance to perform operations on a remote server. For example, the multifarious bots active on Misplaced Pages have owners who exploit the ].

APIs (called ]) that allow for the ] are fundamental for what could colloquially be called "moving data around the Web"; from which Wikidata benefits 24/7. So the fact that the Wikidata SPARQL endpoint at query.wikidata.org has a RESTful API means that, in lay terms, Wikidata content can be GOT from it. The programming involved, besides the ] language, could be in ], younger by a few months than the Web.

Magic words, such as occur in fantasy stories, are wishful (rather than RESTful) solutions to gaining access. You may need to be a linguist to enter ]'s cave or the western door of ] (French in the case of "]", in fact, and ] being the respective languages). Talking to an API requires a bigger toolkit, which first means you have to recognise the tools in terms of what they can do. On the way to the ] or polymathic modern handling of facts, one must perhaps take only tactful notice of tech's endemic problem with documentation, and absorb the insightful point that the code in APIs does articulate the customary procedures now in place on the cloud for getting information. As Owl explained to ], it tells you The Thing to Do.

;Links
*, 2016 paper by {{noping|Andrawaag}} and others, commenting ''inter alia'' on the role of the API on Wikidata
*, Digital Flapjack blogpost 26 November 2018, Michael Dales, developer for using ], with a software engineer's view on Wikibase and the MediaWiki API
*, Magnus Manske blogpost 12 March 2019, on the ] and the MediaWiki API
*], mediawiki.org page on the API for access to "recent changes" on a wiki
*], wikitech.wikimedia.org for the Pageview API, giving Wikimedia traffic information
*
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== Deleted SPoS content ==
Sunny King, the creator of Proof-of-Stake consensus, bring out continue version of PoS, called SPoS. And he will apply this consensus on V Systems.
<ref>{{cite web|title=Evolution of Energy-Free Consensus: From POS to SPOS|url=https://v.systems/pdf/sposwhitepaper.pdf/|publisher= V SYSTEMS|access-date=2019-04-08}}</ref> The Supernode Proof-of-Stake is used in V SYSTEMS blockchain.<ref>{{cite web|title=V SYSTEMS: Blockchain Database and Apps Platform|url=https://v.systems/pdf/vsyswhitepaper.pdf/|publisher= V SYSTEMS|access-date=2019-04-08}}</ref>
<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.coindesk.com/the-creator-of-proof-of-stake-thinks-he-finally-figured-it-out|title=The Creator of Proof-of-Stake Thinks He Finally Figured It Out - Coindesk|date=2018-09-07|work=Coindesk|access-date=2019-04-08}}</ref>
{{Reflist talk}}
;Links
* There is an Announcements of Sunny King which post on bitcointalk


So, David, I want to know, why did you delete the SPoS part?] (]) 09:13, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

:Because the sources didn't meet ], per my edit message - ] (]) 09:24, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Didn't meet ]? This source is from Forbes and Coindesk. Are Forbes and Coindesk unreliable? How about "Randomized block selection" and "Delegated Proof-of-Stake" parts? There are all coming from unreliable source.] (]) 08:43, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

:That's correct - crypto blogs and Forbes contributor blogs don't pass RS - ] (]) 09:11, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

== Julian Assange topic for your consideration ==

Hi, ] mentioned that a request on Jimbo's talk page might be more productive . Thank you. ] (]) 04:00, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
== Nomination of ] for deletion ==
<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">]</div>A discussion is taking place as to whether the article ''']''' is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to ] or whether it should be ].

The article will be discussed at ] until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.<!-- Template:afd notice --> ] 22:41, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

== Deleted Zerocoin Vulnerability Entry ==

Hey David, I see that my entry about a recent critical exploit found in a Zerocoin proof was removed from the wiki.

It was my first entry so I am not surprised it was rejected but I tried my best to format it properly. Where did I go wrong?

] (]) 03:36, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

:Sorry about giving you a bitey first experience :-( But on crypto/blockchain articles in particular, Misplaced Pages's getting very strict about sticking to sources that pass ], pretty much because spammers mean we can't have nice things - so either mainstream coverage, or peer-reviewed academic sources, or academic books of reasonable quality, that sort of thing. So self-sourcing generally doesn't cut it, crypto blogs don't cut it, etc. There's even a "general sanctions" on anything crypto/blockchain - ]. It makes sourcing a lot tougher, and means we can't generally put in the very latest news until it's achieved note, but keeps the firehose of spam under control ... - ] (]) 08:05, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

== ''Facto Post'' – Issue 23 – 30 April 2019 ==

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;Completely clouded?
]
Talk of ] draws a veil over hardware, but also, less obviously but more importantly, obscures such intellectual distinction as matters most in its use. Wikidata begins to allow tasks to be undertaken that were out of easy reach. The facility should not be taken as the real point.

Coming in from another angle, the "executive decision" is more glamorous; but the "administrative decision" should be admired for its command of facts. Think of the attitudes '']'', so prevalent here on Misplaced Pages as "can you give me a source for that?", and being prepared to deal with complicated analyses into specified subcases. Impatience expressed as a disdain for such ] is quite understandable, but neither ] nor ] are at all good to have around.

] and ], respectively on ] and ]s, talk about biomedical literature and computing tasks that would be of higher quality if they could be made more "administrative". For example, it is desirable that the decisions involved be consistent, explicable, and reproducible by non-experts from specified inputs.

What gets clouded out is not impossibly hard to understand. You do need to put together the insights of ], which is a doctrinaire and purist but clearcut approach, with the practicality of ]. Loopless computation can be conceived of as a seamless forward march of spreadsheet columns, each determined by the content of previous ones. Very well: to do a backward audit, when now we are talking about Wikidata, we rely on integrity of data and its scrupulous sourcing: and clearcut case analyses. The MEDRS example forces attention on purge attempts such as ].

;Links
*] by {{noping|Headbomb}}.
*]
*]: ], final version, matched into Wikidata.
*: query to find items on Wikidata for articles subject to the , under "Journals (Fundamentally Flawed)".
*.
*], metadata for biomedical articles being built up, sourced from ] and ].
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== Expectations for Third Party RS ==

Hi David,

As you are clearly aware, the IOTA (tech) page was recently undeleted for a second attempt at its creation. I understand that crypto is a realm of hype and scams, so I completely understand the need for reputable sources and objectivity. My question pertains to what your expectations are for third party sources. Being relatively new technology, the academic papers that are written about Iota are mostly written by those within the non-profit organization. This does not make them less reputable, but may be considered a primary-source. Will you be accepting these academic papers as academic papers, or consider them as 'biased' primary sources?

Lastly, you noted certain sections require third party RS even though the section states that 'IOTA defines ''x'' as ...'. At some point it is reasonable to reference the creator of a technology for basic nomenclature and low level functions. For example, if I was to write an article on a Ford truck, I would probably refer to Ford for engine dimensions and specifications. Will this be acceptable for Iota?

Thanks, just trying to see where we lie going forward so we don't go down the wrong path or waste our time on the wrong things!
-Jacob
] (]) 21:37, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

:we are super, ''super'' stringent on sourcing for anything crypto-related, basically because spammers mean we can't have nice things. So in practice, absolutely all sourcing has to be: 1. mainstream (not crypto) third-party Reliable Sources per ]; or 2. peer-reviewed academic work. This limits the scope of article content, but then an encylopedia article is meant to be a general overview of a topic after all ... - ] (]) 09:06, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

== Alternative rock ==
Here's my justification for my edits on the alternative rock template:

:1. ]: There is nothing in the article that suggests any connection between alternative hip hop and alternative rock other than the fact that the former is usually listened by those who like the latter genre.
:2. ]: This link simply redirects to the nu metal page.
:3. ]: Specifically stated to be a subgenre of dream pop.
:4. ]: Specifically stated to be linked with the Madchester scene.
:5. ]: Specifically stated to be a fusion genre of black metal and shoegazing.
:6. ]: Alright, I will admit I wasn't sure about this one. There is clearly some debate on whether chamber pop is a subgenre of indie rock or indie pop, but in the end I decided it was an indie pop subgenre.
:7. ]: This link simply redirects to the Twee pop page.
:8. ]: This link simply redirects to the gothic rock page.
:9. ]: Usually seen as a subgenre of Neo-psychedelia.
:10. ]: Specifically stated to be a subgenre of indie pop.
:11. ]: The article states that the later form of emo falls under indie rock.
:12. ]: Specifically stated to be a fusion genre of gothic rock and psychobilly.
:13. ]: OK, I was wrong to delete this one.
:14. ]: This link simply redirects to the indie rock page.
:15. ]: Specifically stated to be a fusion genre of indie rock and folk music.
:16. ]: I will admit there is a major overlap between this genre and indie rock. However, because both their articles suggest that indie pop is just a sister genre to indie rock and not a subgenre, I decided to just limit it to the pop music template.
:17. ]: There is nothing in either articles that suggests industrial metal and industrial rock are related beyond being fusion genres of industrial music.
:18. ]: A production style, not an actual music genre.
:19. ]: Specifically stated to be a fusion genre of punk rock and rockabilly.
:20. ]: Alright, this one a little bit tricky. While alternative rock can refer to any form rock that is different from mainstream rock, the type of rock most people are talking about (including both the punk rock and the alternative rock articles) developed right after the punk scene. So my reasoning is that punk rock '''cannot''' be considered a subgenre of alternative rock, nor can any punk subgenres (unless its a fusion genre of something that ''is'' a subgenre of alternative rock).
:21. ]: Usually seen as a subgenre of Neo-psychedelia.

I do not mean for my edits to come off as vandalism. ] (]) 20:21, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

== ''Facto Post'' – Issue 24 – 17 May 2019 ==

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| <span style="font-size: 110%;">''Facto Post'' – Issue 24 – 17 May 2019</span>]
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;Semantic Web and TDM – a ContentMine view

Two dozen issues, and this may be the last, a ] at least for a while.

It's time for a two-year summation of ContentMine projects involving TDM (]).

Wikidata and now ] represent the overlap of Wikimedia with the ]. This common ground is helping to convert an engineering concept into a movement. TDM generally has little enough connection with the Semantic Web, being instead in the orbit of ] which is no respecter of the semantic. Don't break a taboo by asking bots "and what do you mean by that?"

The ] innovates in TDM, by storing its text mining results in a ] site. It strives for compliance of its fact mining, on drug treatments of diseases, with an automated form of the relevant ]. Where ] set up an ] for reuse of its results, ScienceSource has a SPARQL query service, with look-and-feel exactly that of Wikidata's at query.wikidata.org. It also now has a custom front end, and its content can be ], in other words used in data mashups: it is one of ] that can federate with Wikidata.

The human factor comes to bear through the front end, which combines a link to the HTML version of a paper, text mining results organised in drug and disease columns, and a SPARQL display of nearby drug and disease terms. Much software to develop and explain, so little time! Rather than telling the tale, ''Facto Post'' brings you ScienceSource links, starting from the how-to video, lower right.
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;Links for participation
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The review tool requires a log in on sciencesource.wmflabs.org, and an OAuth permission (bottom of a review page) to operate. It can be used in simple and more advanced workflows. Examples of queries for the latter are at ] and ].

''Please be aware that this is a research project in development, and may have outages for planned maintenance. That will apply for the next few days, at least.'' The ScienceSource wiki main page carries information on practical matters. Email is not enabled on the wiki: use site mail here to {{noping|Charles Matthews}} in case of difficulty, or if you need support. Further explanatory videos will be put into ].
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== Re: ] ==
I'm never sure where I should post responses, so just in case, I'll add it here, too: I added some additional references to the ] page. I can dig up some more if that's not sufficient; please let me know. tnx --] (]) 17:04, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

== Enquiry about SkyWay Cryptocurrency ==

Thanks for your input to the SkyWay Group article by checking on and removing the unreliable SkyWay cryptocurrency reference. Since you appear to know a lot about cryptocurrencies I'd like to confirm that what SkyWay is selling is not actually a 'cryptocurrency' as it promises to pay monthly dividends. Initially on posting the update to the SkyWay Group article, I included a link to the cryptocurrency article as this is what the SkyWay group claim they are selling as witnessed and advertised in recent promotional sales meetings around the world and actually for sale via the SkyWay website, but the more I thought about it the more misleading this seemed, so I put it in inverted commas and removed the link; the cryptounits they are selling seem to be further unsupported by literature but it's important that any statements made are a reflection of verified sources. –] (]) 19:20, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
:To be more specific: the sentence that could easily be questioned in the future is the relatively vague assertion - "These claims have been disputed". If there is indeed anything wrong with the claims SkyWay are making about this particular investment product currently being offered and promoted by SkyWay, a reliable reference which questions claims such as "payment of monthly dividends" would be great. Could we word this more succinctly as supported by a verified reference. Your advice appreciated in this regard. A reliable resource on cryptocurrencies and how this could relate to what SkyWay are selling would be invaluable. –] (]) 19:31, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

== On rm'ing cryptocurrency sources... ==

I know there's been discussions on Coindesk and other cryptocurrency sites with regards to reliability, and I fully agree there are concerns related to conflict of interest/promotional concerns. But I'm not finding a group central place or places where the bulk of cryptocurrency sources should be not considered as RS. I can't readily find one at RS:N that clearly gives allowance for mass removal as you have done over the last few days - if there is, great, but you should have a place somewhere you can point to to show this consensus. If this doesn't exist, I think you might be doing this too aggressively. --] (]) 21:02, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

:I can see that. But considering they're almost entirely incredibly low quality sources, many of which are known pay-for-play sites, I think it's way overdue. We seriously had contributors trying to use icodrops.com as a reference - ] (]) 21:05, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

== ''Medical Hypotheses'' ==
Fantastic work removing material single-cited to ''Medical Hypotheses''. Thank you. -- ] (]) 13:27, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

: :-) At least it should be ''reasonably'' non-controversial to scour ... - ] (]) 13:33, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
Agree, great job! --] (]) 03:37, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

{{ping|David Gerard}} I just wanted to touch base and say I think overall this is a great idea, to remove stuff that's referenced to ''Med Hypoth'' as fact. But I think there's a lot of cases where you're removing material that could, instead, just be better sourced! See I just made to ] for what I mean. The content was perfectly factual, and it was easy to find a better source! So maybe it would be better if we worked together to find better sources for the content instead of just removing it all wholesale just because someone used a poor source for it? I usually consider myself a ''deletionist'' (in jest), but I think this is an actual case where deletion is not the answer! --] <sup>(]</sup> <sup>])</sup> 19:51, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

== Your amendment in https://en.wikipedia.org/Cryptocurrency_and_security ==

David, saw that you removed my edits in the Cryptocurrency and security section. Can I know why Ciphertrace is not deemed to be a reputable source but somehow news outlets are?] (]) 15:06, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

News outlets take their source from Ciphertrace themselves.

Example: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/technology/cryptocurrency-thefts--fraud-hit-us-1-2-billion-in-first-quarter---report-11493244

The figure of US 1.2 billion came from the Ciphertrace report I quoted in my edits. https://ciphertrace.com/articles/q1-2019-cryptocurrency-anti-money-laundering-report/

Also, I am not sure whether this is the right place to post this question. If not, please do let me know how to do it in the future. Thanks.

:Sorry, I was probably overzealous about primary sourcing in crypto articles. I'll put it back with some third-party sourcing in front to explain - ] (]) 14:59, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification David.] (]) 15:05, 8 June 2019 (UTC) <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 15:02, 8 June 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Deleted page of the Nexo Finance company ==

Dear David, I saw you deleted the page I published last week. I'd kindly like to ask you to help me improve the content so that it meets the criteria. I spent a lot of time doing my best to gather all the information and resources available on the internet and setting it all up into a user-friendly content following best practices and examples from available FinTech Misplaced Pages pages like the ones of ], ], etc. I am willing to put more effort into that following your guidance. I'd appreciate your feedback and support. Thank you in advance! -- ] (]) 7:27, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

== Deletion of Douglas Torr page ==

You appear to have deleted the Douglas Torr Page (which was reviewed a few months prior with no issues) with no reason specified.

Why did you delete the Douglas Torr page? And don't make a circular appeal to a 7 day PROD because invoking a PROD without a valid reason isn't justification in itself. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 05:16, 11 June 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:Well, given being an expired PROD was literally the reason ... in 2014 ... - ] (]) 05:31, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

== August 20,1977 ==

I checked '']'' on Newspapers.com (which doesn't have '']'' yet) and I could find no evidence of a funeral being televised. My guess was that it was televised only in Memphis. ] (]) 16:56, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

== Deletion of Point of Rental Software page ==

Hey David, I think I've added the appropriate tag to my profile now. Several of the sources cited on the page are not written by us, but by independent industry publishers - understandably, those publishers often publish editorial content, so I can understand the perception that they may not be neutral. I could certainly make the page's language more encyclopedically-appropriate. Would it be worth it to try given that it's currently marked for deletion or do none of the interviews from industry magazines qualify as significant enough to maintain the page?

Also, if the page is deleted, do I need to bother continuing to have "paid" in my profile since I would no longer be editing on behalf of the organization?

] (]) 14:27, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

:I fixed your tag for you :-) Basically to stay, the article needs significant third-party coverage - not just PR fluff or churnalism. Is there any serious coverage in the press clippings collection? - ] (]) 14:42, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

== Copyright status of ''Unknown Pleasures'' cover art ==

David,

About ], you took note of a passing mention in the '']'' that the data plot on the cover ]'s '']'' is in the public domain. You said you weren't sure that it was, but it would be great if it were.

Over the weekend, to commemorate the album's 40th anniversary, the ''Washington Post'' ran about the cover image's increasing use as a meme. It referenced about the genesis of the image, including an interview with Harold Craft, who made the plot.

Based on what that article said, I have made ] that it is, in fact, a free image since it was originally published in 1970 without a copyright notice. See what you think. ] (]) 14:45, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

:I think claiming the ''cover'' is, is unlikely to fly - it'll be Peter Saville's work for Factory Records based on public domain material - but good work anyway! We can definitely put the plot in as PD then - ] (]) 14:50, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

== RE: Tradeshift ==
please provide feedback on eliminating flags on Tradeshift page. And how it differs from similar company pages such as <ref>https://en.wikipedia.org/Coupa</ref>, <ref>https://en.wikipedia.org/Square,_Inc.</ref>, <ref>https://en.wikipedia.org/Zuora</ref>, <ref>https://en.wikipedia.org/Stripe_(company)</ref>, and <ref>https://en.wikipedia.org/Slack_(software)</ref> as these pages were used as examples of pages abiding by Misplaced Pages standards. Would love to correct errors to make sure article abides by Misplaced Pages standards. ] (]) 18:11, 19 June 2019 (UTC)tscopy
{{Reflist-talk}}

== Edits to Cypherpunk Entry ==
Please explain removals of several people from the section on Notable Cypherpunks, including Dave Del Torto, Alex Fowler, Michael Froomkin, among others deleted. These people were absolutely active and key figures in the early days of the community who contributed to numerous advocacy, legal, and policy victories. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 01:09, 20 June 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:] - ] (]) 05:51, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

== Highline High School ==

Hello {{u|David Gerard}}. Regarding to ], your edit summary did not explain the removal of the cited press release. The press release does verify that Raymond Conner attended the school and a relevant quote from the press release was included in the reference cite. I replaced the {{tl|citation needed}} you added with a different reference that also verifies attendance, but would like to understand better why you found the previous one lacking. Thanks. — ] (]) 19:53, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

:Basically because press releases should never be used in Misplaced Pages as citations for a fact, particularly a fact about a living person - they're not ], in Misplaced Pages terms. I left the fact in with a {{tl|cn}} because it was probably true :-) But press releases are still not a sort of reference we should use at all - ] (]) 21:08, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

== Curtis Yarvin ==
Dear {{u|David Gerard}}. Your reinstatement of an editorialized snippet featuring facetious air quotes around the word 'facts' is inappropriate for entries found in a neutral encyclopedic reference. The inclusion of such references is unanimously rejected across the Misplaced Pages platform, especially when featured in introductory paragraphs for controversial persons. The sentence in question stems from a book published by Pluto Press, a former arm of the Socialist Workers Party that is currently dedicated to expounding progressive viewpoints. As such, this is certainly not a neutral or widely-respected entity with regard to the individual in question. Inclusion of such material is contrary to Misplaced Pages's dedication to maintaining neutrality in its citations. ''See'' (https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources#Biased_or_opinionated_sources). <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small>

:You should probably try to make your case on the article talk page - ] (]) 21:57, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

== Roger Ver ==

Hi {{u|David Gerard}}. Similar to the comment above, your reversion of a policy-cited removal should be discussed on the talk page, rather than assuming the role of article captain. I'll be reverting back on the basis that the citation in question is absolutely wp:undue, carries with it an undercurrent of agenda and perhaps most important, it's just plain redundant; the matter is discussed later in the article (and if someone proposed deleting the matter entirely, I'd be opposed to that, too). If you'd like to discuss further, the article talk page remains open. ] (]) 00:49, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

:He's not just a felon, his felony rated an actual press release. I suggest whitewashing is inappropriate. I've started a section on the talk page to discuss it, though - ] (]) 10:46, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

== Press releases ==

I didn't know that we can't use press releases any more. Can you point me to the policy or the relevant discussion where this was decided? - ] (]) 15:28, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

:We need ] in general - that page cautions against letting through PRs by accident - and for controversial BLPs in particular, and that one's been pretty nasty lately. When ever did we not? - ] (]) 15:30, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

::We have a ]. I don’t think it has ever been policy to never use them, especially for something uncontroversial like notable awards. In fact I’d say the award press release is the ''best'' place to find a list of awards and nominations. There are circumstances where they are useful AFAIK '''] ]''' 15:32, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

:::And frankly that template should go as well, if it encourages their use. There are definitely cases to add them - I've added them myself. They're still not an appropriate source where a third-party cite would go, and definitely not for a controversial BLP - ] (]) 15:35, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
::::It is a perfectly viable source, unless you want to argue that the UCLA Anderson School of Management might be wrong when they list the people they nominated for their own awards. Hard to see how that could possibly be unreliable. Can you point to the discussion that decided that press releases were automatically unreliable? I can't see it at ]. - ] (]) 15:39, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
:::::That's because discussion would be at ], e.g. ] - it's still a primary source at best - ] (]) 17:07, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
::::::I read that - it doesn't help. It was three years ago and says nothing about banning press releases, and most of the comments in that very short discussion say that press releases are ok. I'm not seeing anything there that supports the wholesale deletion of press releases as sources, per what you have been doing. - ] (]) 17:13, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
:::::::They're not ]. It's not a difficult concept - ] (]) 17:39, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
::::::::You’re talking in circles. Where has it been said that all PR sources need to be removed and that PR sources are never appropriate? You seem to have taken on this massive task and are unilaterally removing content from a ton of pages, without regard for merit, solely because it is cited to a press release - but I can find no indication in policy or any discussion this is something the community has decided to do. '''] ]''' 19:40, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::I've been removing them because press releases as ''cites'' are overwhelmingly either bad sourcing (to claims that should have a third-party source) or simply promotional sourcing, particularly on company pages or BLPs. They're a really good indicator of low-quality and/or COI content. As well as not being third-party reliable sources, which sourcing on Misplaced Pages ''should still be'' and ''press releases are not''. That's not "talking in circles", it's stating what Misplaced Pages policy literally is. I'm sure you understand that Misplaced Pages policy is to use ]. Why are you so keen on defending bad sourcing? - ] (]) 19:45, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::A press release is ''not'' a bad source for a list of awards and nominations of an awards show. I have literally spent weeks on ] demanding each award be cited individually to citations independent of Attkisson so it’s not like I want garbage sources, but I see absolutely no issue at all with using a primary source (the award show/event/whatever) to cite a claim that somebody was nominated for or received an award, provided that primary source is from the award show - like, say, their website or a press release. In fact, it’s probably one of the ''best'' ways to source those claims since the list will be generally comprehensive and accurate, whereas a secondary source might introduce an error - like excluding some awards, misspelling a name, etc. See ]. '''] ]''' 20:27, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::I looked through more of the history of that article, and oh my goodness. I am quite happy to leave it to you! - ] (]) 20:30, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::Yeah. Not been that fun there. '''] ]''' 20:57, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::I'm sure you've read ]. I have no problem with removing sources where they are inappropriate. But you've been removing viable and reasonable uses of primary sources with no more of an edit summary than "rm claims cited only to press releases - not a WP:RS for Misplaced Pages". We can raise it at ], but you already know what the outcome would be. - ] (]) 22:06, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::Happy to go through them case by case, and/or at RSN - more eyes are always good - ] (]) 22:13, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
*David, WP:RS ''does not'' state press releases cannot be used. Of course third-party news sources are preferred, but that's not the same as saying they are ''not allowed at all''. I don't particularly care where else you remove them, but you removed them from ], which is not a BLP, credits a quote ''explicitly to the press release'', and is not making controversial claims. As Bilby said above, I think this is a "viable and reasonable use of primary source". <b>]<small>]</small></b> 22:54, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
**In that case, the problem is no evidence that it passes ] and shouldn't be redirected to the album page, as it was. It's got literally one independent source, and that just notes the single's existence. As is, it makes no claim of notability at all - ] (]) 22:57, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
**And I see there are now third-party sources, and the press release wasn't needed - ] (]) 23:07, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
***The press release was mostly just a placeholder until news sources were published. I still don't think they always need to be removed, however. <b>]<small>]</small></b> 23:23, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

== Thoughts on decrypt as a source for crypto articles ==

Hey David, what are your thoughts on as a source for crypto articles? I am guessing it is probably inappropriate for a ] but perhaps ok for regular articles? I've come across some good reporting from them, but since you're probably more in the know on this, wanted to ask your thoughts on this. --] (]) 20:44, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
:Even as I've literally written for it myself ... it's way too into empty boosterism - that entire "Web 3.0" column down the side, for example. There are good bits but way too much that isn't. We could say "but what if editors exercise editorial judgement?" - but most of the point of GS/Crypto is that "editorial judgement" wasn't enough in crypto. Fundamentally, the same problem as Coindesk. So no, I wouldn't use it as a source beyond the usual exceptions that apply to experts writing somewhere etc - ] (]) 09:18, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
::Got it, thanks David! I know we disagree on CoinDesk but of course I am happy to go with the consensus view here, whenever it is resolved. --] (]) 02:07, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

== You've got mail ==

{{You've got mail|dashlesssig=<span style="background-color:lightblue">'''''&nbsp;]&nbsp;'''''</span><span style="background-color:lightblue">&nbsp;<sup>''] Talk ''</sup>&nbsp;</span> 22:44, 9 July 2019 (UTC)}}

==Academic notability==
Hey mate, just wanted to explain myself a bit better. I've removed academics who are not notable as per ]. I too have had papers published in peer reviewed journals, but you wouldn't use me to cite a statement of fact in an encyclopedia...an academic it does not make me. To qualify as a reliable academic source the author needs to have been widely published, and be respected in the field, publishing a couple of times doesn't cut it. I'm starting to err towards nominating the page for deletion, because none of the citations are really that strong, I think the subject is borderline in terms of notability. ] (]) 00:10, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
:NACADEMIC is about whether he gets his own article, not whether he's usable as a source - ] (]) 08:44, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

==Tags on the Legal Sea Food article==
Good morning David. I seeking to clear up some of my confusion over the two maintenance templates added to the ] article. I've spent many hours editing this page and carefully adding references and it’s important for me to understand exactly what needs to be changed and what the next steps are. May be because of many edits to this page I'm too close to see exactly what needs to be changed. ] (]) 15:41, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

== Editing News #1—July 2019 ==

''] • ]''

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Did you know that you can use the visual editor on a mobile device?

Every article has a pencil icon at the top. Tap on the pencil icon ] to start editing.

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Welcome back to the ] newsletter.

Since ], the team has released two new features for the ] and has started developing three more. All of this work is part of the team's goal to ]

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If you are interested, we would value your input! You can try this new link tool in the mobile visual editor on a separate wiki.

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=== Recent releases ===
The mobile visual editor is a simpler editing tool, for smartphones and tablets using the ]. The Editing team has recently launched two new features to improve the mobile visual editor:

# ]
#* The purpose is to help contributors focus on their edits.
#* The team studied this with an A/B test. ] that contributors who could use section editing were '''1% more likely to publish''' the edits they started than people with only full-page editing.
# ]
#* The purpose is to smooth the transition between reading and editing.

Section editing and the new loading overlay are '''now available to everyone''' using the mobile visual editor.

=== New and active projects ===
This is a list of our most active projects. ] these pages to learn about project updates and to share your input on new designs, prototypes and research findings.

*]: This is a clearer way to add and edit links, citations, images, templates, etc. in articles. You can try this feature now. ''Go here to see how:'' ]''.''
*]: This project will learn if contributors are more successful when the editing tools are easier to recognize.
*]: This A/B test asks: ''Are newer contributors more successful if they use the mobile visual editor?'' We are collaborating with ] to answer this question.
*]: This project will make the mobile visual editor easier to use.  The goal is to let contributors stay focused on editing and to feel more confident in the editing tools.

=== Looking ahead ===

* '''Wikimania:''' Several members of the Editing Team will be attending in August 2019. They will lead a session about mobile editing in the ]. Talk to them about how editing can be improved.
* '''Talk Pages:''' In the coming months, the Editing Team will begin ] and communication on the wikis.

=== Learning more ===
The ] is a good place to learn more about the projects we are working on. The team wants to talk with you about anything related to editing. If you have something to say or ask, please leave a message at ].

] (]) and ] (]) 21:25, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
<!-- Message sent by User:Whatamidoing (WMF)@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:VisualEditor/Newsletter&oldid=901773265 -->

== Danezis ==

Thanks for your feedback on the page "George Danezis". I have only written a few articles in the past so I'm not fully acquainted with best practices. I have addressed your feedback and added a number of mainstream sources from non-cryptocurrency websites. Additionally, I've removed potentially unnoteworthy facts. I'm not sure which facts you considered were unnoteworthy, however I have removed research contributions that do not have any news/secondary sources published about them, and removed the Catalonia Data Privacy award, given that there is no secondary sources about it. The rest of the content I have kept all have secondary sources about them. I would appreciate it if you could review the page again and let me know if there is anything else to be addressed. There are a minor facts in there however that still rely on non-secondary sources, such as date of birth and thesis title, however for these facts I have followed the practices used in other academic pages such as Ross J. Anderson and Markus Kuhn. ] (]) 13:56, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

== Satoshi a pseudonym? ==

Hey David, would you say it is accurate to say that ] is a ]? An editor in the ] article is claiming it is not, even after providing several RS (that the editor now marked as failed verification, which they don't). What do you think? I will back off if you think I am in the wrong here. --] (]) 03:00, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
:I haven't looked closely, but there's no shortage of RSes using precisely that word - ] (]) 06:21, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
=={{utrs|26221}}==
{{UTRS-unblock-admin|26221|ANTUSALLC|Aug 04, 2019 01:49:11|Dlohcierekim|Please calrify the why&apos;s and wherefore&apos;s.}}--] (]) 01:49, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

:Crypto spam account, if you can see any prospect of a useful contribution from them ... - ] (]) 11:40, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

== Notice of Dispute resolution noticeboard discussion ==
]
This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the ] regarding the word widely on cryonics page. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution.
Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!<!--Template:DRN-notice--> --] (]) 11:35, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
==Orphaned non-free image File:Spinal Tap logo.jpg==
] Thanks for uploading ''']'''. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Misplaced Pages under a ]. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Misplaced Pages. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Misplaced Pages (see ]).

Note that any non-free images not used in any '''articles''' will be deleted after seven days, as described in ]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Di-orphaned fair use-notice --> --] (]) 02:35, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

== Marc Bolan ==

Did you actually care to check up the picture before editing/reverting at that article? Your edit is "Gloria Jones with her and Marc Bolan's son Rolan in 2014", whereas there are two persons on that picture: the mother and the son. ] (]) 22:07, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

:yes, and the description is accurate? with her and Marc Bolan's son, . This is entirely correct English grammar for the accurate description of the picture. Are you a native speaker of English? - ] (]) 22:21, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

== Proposed deletion of Harald Seiz ==

Hello David, thanks for your correspondence. I'm travelling and only have limited access to the Internet at the moment, but I'll take a look at the situation. (]) 15:57, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
== ] of ] ==
]

The article ] has been ]&#32;because of the following concern:
<blockquote>Fails to meet ] - it gets lots of mentions, but nothing more than a couple of lines in any reliable/independent source. Google unfriendly, advise extra keywords for BEFORE.</blockquote>

While all constructive contributions to Misplaced Pages are appreciated, pages may be ].

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your ] or on ].

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the ], but other ]es exist. In particular, the ] process can result in deletion without discussion, and ] allows discussion to reach ] for deletion.<!-- Template:Proposed deletion notify --> ] (]) 13:58, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

== Coindesk as a mainstream source ==

Hello David, I reverted the edit that you made regarding Coindesk not being a mainstream source, because anybody within the cryptocurrency industry knows that Coindesk is a very reliable news source, and that it has been cited on Misplaced Pages without removal almost 200 times already. Based on the confidence that 200 other citers and countless more reviewers have previously had in this source, I believe that you have made an honest mistake but will escalate this issue if this source is removed again.] (]) 03:10, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

:It really isn't a good or suitable source. The "industry" is boosterism. This comes up repeatedly at ]. I strongly suggest you find an actual mainstream RS, if the fact in question is even worth noting. If it isn't in one, it probably isn't. Please take ] seriously - ] (]) 05:43, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

:: The reference to ] you provided seems to amount you taking on dozens of other editors, with your claim that Coindesk citations should be completely removed from Misplaced Pages being refuted successfully by a wide number of other editors. Your opinion (because that is clearly what it is) seems to be further nullified by the fact that, as I previously mentioned and despite your objections, more than 200 citations using Coindesk as a reliable source are still present on the platform. Because, as an experienced editor here, you no doubt understand the system of escalation of issues like this better than I do, would you advise me on the correct process for finding administrational resolution to this dispute? "Context" is a topic brought up regularly in ] with regards to Coindesk, and it seems that within this specific scenario the edit that I added is contextually informational, beneficial to readers, relevant to the historical developments of Mt. Gox, and clearly non-promotional. This is not to mention that the author is not just a writer, but one of the editors of the publication, having created and published over 600 articles by his own admission in his bio. Moreover, and possibly most importantly, it can be seen (https://muckrack.com/daniel-palmer-1) that the author has written for many other mainstream publications, including Nature, Yahoo Finance, Nasdaq, The Courier Mail and Finextra, amongst others. This information was quickly found with a simple Google search. Please either explain how this source remains unreliable in your opinion and provide the details of how to escalate this for objective consideration with administrators, or revert your previous reversion, as I believe is blatantly fair and correct in this situation based on the substantial credentials of this author, and that your reference to reasoning for why Coindesk should not be used as a source amounts to a highly disputed and opaquely unpopular opinion, instead of a policy in place here at Misplaced Pages. (Please note the recent approval for the change of my username from "Joel McLeod" to "Metatronsqube" also, to avoid confusion) ] (]) 12:39, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

:::And yet the Coindesk addition was promptly reverted by another editor. Crypto sources are bad sole sources, and they're consistently treated as such by the editors that try to hold back the firehose of spammy garbage from crypto articles. If the fact is notable, find a mainstream source for it. If there isn't one, it's probably not worth noting - ] (]) 12:41, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

:::: You're using a broad generalisation to describe a complex system of websites. Saying that all crypto sources are bad is as lazy as saying all crypto sources are good. Clearly both opinions are simplistic, but both also suit certain opposing and manipulative narratives, that are largely based in ignorance. But it's not my interest to debate your opinions about the cryptocurrency industry as a whole, just to understand whether your actions are based upon an unsupported decision that you've chosen to make, or on the official policies of Misplaced Pages. As previously requested, please explain the appropriate step for me to escalate this. If Coindesk is indeed a blacklisted source as you purport it to be, I'm happy to avoid using the platform as a source in the future. But that will be based on knowing that the reasoning for it isn't simply the opinion of a single editor (or even two "co-editors") that share a personal disdain for Coindesk. ] (]) 13:00, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

:::::yeah that's great thanks. Have you considered using better sources, that indicate a given claim is even worth noting? - ] (]) 13:02, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

:::::: I feel like you don't want this escalated? Surely if you were in the right here and had the authority to make the decision that you've made, you would be more than happy to have this explained to me by more senior editors or administrators, instead of filibustering. Can you at least advise me on whether there is an escalation process, or whether you have the authority to make conclusive decisions on your own without the input of other experienced editors? A direct answer would be appreciated. ] (]) 13:10, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

:::::::I mean, you can try adding bad sources back again if you ''really insist'', but it'll get you reverted at best and sanctioned and blocked at worst (and not by me, my only enforcement for GS/Crypto has been notifying people it exists). I really, really, strongly recommend you actually read ] - as you were indeed notified (and not by me) - and think to yourself what sort of contribution style led to such strong sanctions on a given area of editing. Also the list of blocked and banned editors at the end of that page who insisted on rules-lawyering an electric fence. I'd much rather you had a good time at Misplaced Pages than an endlessly frustrating one - ] (]) 13:13, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

:::::::: A reply that starts with a straw man (I intend on adding bad sources to the platform) and ends with a threat (the list of blocked and banned editors I will join if I escalate this issue). Nice. Professional, welcoming and fair. Your actions embody the tenants that Misplaced Pages was founded on. I'm also not sure if you're accusing me of promoting Coindesk, Steemit and the other sources I've cited when you say "think to yourself what sort of contribution style led to such strong sanctions on a given area of editing", but I'd like you to take note that I haven't needed to throw personal accusations and threats at you during our exchange, and when I look at disputes objectively, seeing that behaviour always tends to tell me a lot about the strength of the arguments on both sides. I'll ask for the fourth time, as politely as I've asked the past 3 times, is there an escalation process available in these situations and if so, what is the normal process that should be taken by editors in order to get resolution? Surely you must have had to use it once or twice before? ] (]) 13:32, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

::::::::: There are various dispute resolution procedures, but I'm sure you can find them. I predict, though, you're not going to have the patience for them - ] (]) 13:44, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

:::::::::: I feel that you are operating in bad faith here, and not in the interests of solving this fairly, or in the interests of Misplaced Pages as a whole. My purpose for wanting to get involved with Misplaced Pages editing isn't based on enjoying arguments with everyone I can find, but a love of tech information and a desire to learn more by contributing here and helping others to learn about tech also. All I'm learning so far from this encounter is to avoid "rule-lawyering an electric fence", whatever you were clumsily implying with that remark, and that in the time you have been an editor that you yourself has had a decent number of issues here, and somehow are still editing cryptocurrency-centric information with a clear COI (ref: ] "A conflict of interest may occur when an editor has a close personal or business connections with article topics."). If others advise me that your decision to blacklist all Coindesk citations is within your rights and the confines of ], ] and ], I'll ensure to avoid using the site for citations in the future. If not, I'll better understand how to avoid an "endlessly frustrating" time while editing. ] (]) 14:20, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

::::::::::: Maybe this is the reason that Coindesk citiations are allowed to remain on Misplaced Pages? (https://www.forbes.com/sites/coindesk/#21335e867cb3, "CoinDesk is the world leader in news and information about bitcoin and other digital currencies. It also provides real-time bitcoin price data.")(https://quotes.wsj.com/fx/BTCUSD/, usage of Coindesk data for chart population) Or are Forbes and WSJ classed as biased and unreliable sources in your mind also? ] (]) 14:44, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

:::::::::::: If you think I have a COI on cryptocurrency that should be flagged, ] is where to take it, not blustering on my talk page. I've lost count of how many people have made this particular spurious claim and not followed through, though.
:::::::::::: And you just cited a ] as evidence of a claim about RSes on Misplaced Pages - ] (]) 15:14, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

::::::::::::: I'm not interested in trying to flag you for anything, or edit war with you, or any of the other things that will probably get me banned for making unnecessary waves. You and I both know it's technically a COI, that's also why a small army of people have brought up the same.. it feels a bit hypocritical. My suggestion would be to declare it and then you won't have editors repetitively questioning your motives, and it won't seem as deceptive.
::::::::::::: I'm not using them as reliable sources for citation, it's making a point. Forbes and WSJ both rely on information provided by Coindesk. The managing director of Coindesk actually used to work at Bloomberg I found out from his Linkedin page earlier too. Coindesk (and Cointelegraph for that matter) aren't "crypto rags", and their not banned as sources here, and you're implementing decisions based on your own ideologies that are combative against all of cryptocurrency, and its transparent, and a shame that a site which has provided so much objective information tolerates editors that police whole swathes of cutting-edge human technological knowledge based on their own significant personal biases. ] (]) 16:58, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Well, no, it isn't a COI. You finally admitting you're a crypto booster explains the claim, though. If you think it is, then either make your claim in the ], or stop blustering accusations you can't back up and admit you have no claim to make that you can support. At this point, you're making ] in the interest of your crypto holding. Which ''is'' a COI under Misplaced Pages rules, by the way - it's explicitly named as such in ].
::::::::::::::I see you also hit the general sanctions on medical sources. This and your attempts to push crypto industry sources suggests you don't have a grasp of what constitutes a COI, what constitutes a source or quite what you're really doing here. Perhaps read more, think a bit and post less until then? - ] (]) 17:50, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

::::::::::::::: a) I'm not making personal attacks, obviously. As others have also pointed out, you have a book condemning cryptocurrency, which means that your financial interests are directly at odds with the success and prevalence of the technology you hang your reputation on dismantling. You need to read your own reference on what a personal attack is and/or stop building more straw men regarding my intentions. b) I don't know what a crypto booster is, but if you mean that I think the technology can be beneficial to the world in some ways, while understanding the drawbacks of it as well, then you should just say that instead of making it seem like I'm trying to nefariously promote an entire technology for my own gain. c) the source I submitted has been used as a source 200 times previously. Not once, 200 times. That doesn't seem to matter to you, because you are only interested in winning an argument, which is not what the purpose of the editorial process should be, and you should well know that. d) Creating 2 edits in within a topic that I understand and have studied academically (blockchain, decentralized structures) hardly constitutes as "pushing crypto industry sources". When did you become the person that decides who can contribute to Misplaced Pages and who can't? The only reason that this discussion has taken up 100 lines of this page is because you have not given one reasonable explanation for removing the citation to Coindesk. I've continued to engage, begrudgingly, on principle, despite multiple threats from you now by the way. e) I made a significant mistake. The mistake was attempting to discuss the Misplaced Pages guidelines and logic behind your decision with you, as you don't seem to be capable of a fair discussion about this. f) I'm disconnecting from this discussion, because you are starting to create deliberate misconceptions of my intentions and actions, and to be frank, you are making this discussion toxic. ] (]) 20:52, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::That's called being a subject-matter expert who is widely quoted in press and media. But if you think that constitutes a COI, I urge you yet again to take it to ], because you'll be literally the first crypto advocate making that claim to have done so. In any case, you should definitely stop blustering unless your intent is personal attacks.
::::::::::::::::Coindesk is a bad source that never saw something tagged "blockchain" or "crypto" that it didn't hype, whether or not it existed. If you have a claim you want to cite to it, I strongly recommend finding a mainstream source or a peer-reviewed academic source instead - ] (]) 21:46, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::: (https://www.coindesk.com/the-sec-case-against-kiks-ico-appears-strong-experts-say, https://www.coindesk.com/as-ico-business-dried-up-this-firms-headcount-fell-from-120-to-50, https://www.coindesk.com/korean-crypto-scam-fleeced-investors-for-over-18-5-million, https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoins-price-longest-ever-bear-market, https://www.coindesk.com/bearish-cross-hints-at-more-losses-ahead-for-bitcoin-price).. a simple Google search or two. I won't be citing Coindesk again until I understand the process of escalation here better. For now I would like to contribute in peace. It's easy enough to find conflict and negativity in the real world without seeking it here also. Perhaps when I have more understanding of the way that Misplaced Pages's editorial hierarchies and processes work, I will submit another Coindesk citation, and await your removal of it with better preparation next time. ] (]) 08:35, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::: Please delete those Coindesk links after you have seen the pages I'm referring to, so that I can't be accused of trying to promote them in this talk page. ] (]) 08:37, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

== Gourish Singla ==

Being listed under forbes 30 under 30 list makes him notable public figure, so it full fills wikipedia criteria of Notability. If you talk about coverages I have put coverages fro Yahoo, NasDaq. Forbes also mentions him two to three publishings. I dont know what you require more. If you require toning up the article then I am doing it right now.--] (]) 04:40, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
:Hello David. I hope you are well.<br />I was here for the same AfD. What exactly does it mean by "block-chain site"? —<span style="font-size: 93%; letter-spacing:1.2pt;"><span class="monospaced" style="font-family: monospace, monospace;">usernamekiran]</span></span> 21:48, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
::] and ] news sites, the stuff covered by ] - ] (]) 20:39, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
:If you had replied me here sooner, then you would have loved at the AfD {{p|:p}} But then again, I wouldn't have been able to close it. See you around {{p}} —<span style="font-size: 93%; letter-spacing:1.2pt;"><span class="monospaced" style="font-family: monospace, monospace;">usernamekiran]</span></span> 20:31, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

== HODL and Blockchain ==

David, you have deleted sources I provided to two articles which were definitely lacking sources and accuse me of "promotion". Moreover, you obviously put me on a sanction list. Hence: Why are you doing this? What am I promoting??? Why did you put me on a sanction list? And you don't even bother to provide a reasoning for actions.
I find this behavior outrageous given the democratic and decentralized ideals of Misplaced Pages.

] (]) 14:53, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

:Sorry, I got that impression because you linked to the advertising web page for the book.
:The blockchain notice applies to everyone editing in the area - I got one myself previously - we've had enormous troubles with spammy additions on blockchain/cryptocurrency articles - ] (]) 15:57, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

David, are you talking about this address which I added in the source section: https://www.heg-fr.ch/en/media-corner/news/hot-off-the-press-crypto-encyclopedia/ ? It's the page of a public university. It merely announces that the book has been published and that it can be downloaded there. Obviously, nobody makes a dime on anything. On the contrary, finally there is a reliable book on cryptos that I can cite without my professors chopping my head off...
] (]) 22:46, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

David, can you please kindly let me know what made you believe that the source I have cited was "promotional", respectively spam. It is an independent source, fully compliant with Misplaced Pages rules, and I would thus like to avoid these of misunderstandings in the future.

THANKS!
07:46, 31 August 2019 (UTC) <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:I answered you above. I note also the advertising page for the book has spelling errors, which makes me wonder about it too - ] (]) 10:13, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, David, for your response. And no, you had not yet answered my question above. At the same time I can see what you mean by the spelling errors on the "adverstising page". However, I wanted to know, why you judged the source itself to be non-citable. A quick search on Google Scholar revealed that the authors have gathered appr. 500 citations from the academic world only. By that measure it is more sound than 98% of all other sources cited on Misplaced Pages. Given these facts would you now accept the source to be citation worthy on Misplaced Pages?
] (]) 01:32, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

David,
Can you please oblige? Can you please share with the rest of the Misplaced Pages readership for which reasons you have deleted an independent scholarly source other than there were spelling mistakes on a third-party page that was informing about that book? Thanks & cheers!

] (]) 00:58, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

:If it was a third-party page, why are you claiming it wasn't "promotional"? - ] (]) 14:44, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

David,
you're diverting from the topic: I have now asked you multiple times for fact-based reasons why you deem the SOURCE that I had mentioned as non-citable. You have not been able to provide me with a single one. I therefore conclude that the source itself is ok, yet the third-party Web site should not be mentioned. Accordingly I'll add the source again (without the third-party Web site). I hope that's fine with you.
(I trust that this entire episode has nothing to do with the conflict of interest mentioned on your TalkPage!)

] (]) 01:16, 6 September 2019 (UTC)


== COI notification, as required. ==

==Notice of Conflict of interest noticeboard discussion==
] There is currently a discussion at ] regarding a possible ] incident with which you may be involved. <!--Template:Coin-notice--> Thank you. ] (]) 05:37, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

== Draft:Hubhopper to Article ==

Hullo. There's a lock placed on creating an article on ]. I have submitted a fresh draft which should be well within Wiki guidelines (including notability - subject Hubhopper is India's largest podcasting company in terms of content hours and has been written about extensively by independent news outlets). Since you have set the protection, could you unlock it and allow the article to be created? Thanks.

] (]) 08:03, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

:Probably the best thing would be to get a version that clearly passes AFC first, since I see it's been declined previously - ] (]) 09:27, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

:Thanks. Will do. ] (]) 16:30, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

== Oops, wrong paragraph removed in ] ==

Heh, it took me a while to read the talk page, look into the edit history of the page etc. I remembered I wanted to remove the last paragraph of the lead section. But meanwhile and I wasn't paying attention, so I removed the other paragraph from lead. I approve of your revert. :) -- ]&nbsp;<small>]]</small> 14:42, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

==Tendentious editwarring related to Scientology; Determining RS for fringe claims/organizations (CENSUR) ?==
Hi David, I wonder if you have any opinions on a group called CESNUR that has recently published a ] article alleging that during a 1950 presentation at the Shrine Auditorium. This is an extraordinary claim, as all reputable historians on the subject universally describe the event as having been poorly received.

Another editor that a non-reliable source had been added to multiple articles by user Iamsnag12, specifically: ], ], ], and ]. As a result of that observation, the unreliable source was removed pending consensus for its inclusion. The user promptly readded the source right back in to the articles without discussion. . I this to WP:ANI, user was alerted to discretionary sanctions and the material was removed by admin ].

The same user has continued to make controversial edits which are perhaps suggestive of an organized effort / tendentiousness -- and yet again the same CENSUR article that was removed as a non-RS by JzG after the ANI complaint. Given that the user has repeated the same behavior thrice now after multiple warnings, it seemed wise to bring this to you admins instead of just reverting him another time before addressing the behavior issue.

In addition to the repeated editwarring as a behavior issue, CENSUR in general seems to fail RS, as googling suggests they may have financial entanglements with the objects of their study. In particular, the group allegedly had financial ties to ] which led CENSUR members in 1995 to giving a public press conference, erroneously arguing that the group could not have manufactured the Sarin gas (which they did in fact use in the Tokyo attacks). CENSUR had instead publicly claimed that the group was merely the victims of religious persecution. <ref name=washingtonpost>"Tokyo Cult Finds an Unlikely Supporter", '']'', T.R. Reid, May 1995.</ref><ref name=Reader>Ian Reader, {{webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20111005112225/http://eprints.lancs.ac.uk/14563/1/nr.2000.3.2.pdf |date=2011-10-05 }}, '']'' 3, no. 2 (April 2000): 368-82.</ref> ] (]) 06:04, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
{{Reflist talk}}
:It's definitely not an RS - ] (]) 06:21, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
::I definitely concur. Do I need to report the behavior problem to anyone other than you? This was the ninth individual addition of that same article by {{user|Iamsnag12}}. ] (]) 06:35, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
:::Probably ] again, since it was clear last time. ] is definitely appropriate when someone is persistently adding a clearly bad source. Not sure, but ] might also be a suitable place - ] (]) 06:37, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Excuse me but "all reputable historians on the subject" agree? Given that 1/2 of them are ex-Scientologists I'm not sure they are exactly objective. As for the rest, did anybody actually read this article or the actual transcript/email which it shows? Every single historian and claimant had only repeated the same claim which came before it which it examined thoroughly.
Also, what does the rest of that about CESNUR have to do with the article? This is the guilt by association fallacy. ] (]) 00:01, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

:If a source has shown a very poor reputation for fact checking or accuracy in the past, then it's likely not a reliable source per our ] policy. But in any case, if you wish to dispute whether or not something is a RS, I suggest you do it somewhere like ] not here. ] (]) 15:33, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

==Kiana Danial==
Hey, I am curious why Google Books and Barnes & Noble aren't reliable sources on the publishing of a book? Why a published science paper that has been referenced in other scientist's work (education) is not a reliable source for proof of education? Less so, I am also curious as to why a NY Business Journal Women of Influence award is not notable. The NYC metro area contains over 20 milion people and they name 30? Are you going to say because they take nominations? Because so does the Cooper Hewitt Design Awards as well as many other prestigious awards.. I will give you that the reference from the Great Neck Record which is a local newspaper is somewhat questionable after fully reading the article. Though one would think a local newspaper, with an article with an independent author would usually be an acceptable 3rd party but i guess not in this case. I'd have to go look through the rest of the awards listed on her nasdaq profile to see if they are notable but I dont have time right now. Either way the bottom two tags should be removed as every statement on there is referenced, any more would be reference bombing and any questionable statements have certainly been removed. I apreciate your help.. I'm not overly committed here but I would like to keep the pages I made from becoming a mess. ] (]) 16:17, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

== Before everyone forgets... ==

I set up ] to get an idea of what happened when and who came up with what. Feel free to add who else was involved early on and how criteria were thought etc.] (] '''·''' ]) 20:59, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

:I'd forgotten that was me! - ] (]) 21:16, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
::Yeah funny that...has happened to me too....] (] '''·''' ]) 21:18, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
:::god we've been doing this a while ... - ] (]) 21:19, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Was it Simple? I thought it was Meta. <span style="border:1px solid;background:#800080">]]]</span> 21:24, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
:I went back to the first version and that's what it says ... remember that this was 2004, and a lot of those were actually red links - ] (]) 22:28, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

== Hanne Albert ==

Hi David, is this the place where I reply about the Hanne Albert page? Regards Ingeborg Wiltoft <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 22:27, 11 September 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== BBC and Slate not reliable sources? ==

Hello {{Ping|David Gerard}} I am somewhat surprised that a few external links, mentioning ]. I agree askthecomputerguy.com might not pass, but the BBC? Slate? Why would you say such prominent sources aren't reliable? I mostly contribute to the French WP, so our customs might differ. --] (]) 14:01, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

:] is meant to keep external links down to just an official link, maybe a couple - if the references are useful, I'd expect they'd get cited as sources in the article - ] (]) 16:07, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

== Just for formality ==


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] is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimise disruption in controversial topic areas. This means ] administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to these topics that do not adhere to the ], our ], or relevant ]. Administrators may impose sanctions such as ], ], or ]. An editor can only be sanctioned after the editor has been made aware that general sanctions are in effect. It is only effective if it is logged ]. Before continuing to edit pages in these topic areas, please familiarise yourself with the general sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions. <!-- Template:Blockchain notification --> }} <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 05:52, 17 September 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:I'm sure you perceive this as some sort of own. I'd suggest trying to work ''with'' others - ] (]) 06:00, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

== Notice of ANI Discussion ==
] There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved.&nbsp;The thread is ]. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> ] (]) 09:48, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

== Use of Image ==

Hey David, I strongly suspect that the image on ] articles is not the author's own work. This is the image - https://en.wikipedia.org/File:Cryptokitty.gif which looks exactly like the original website's logo/gif. I wanted to ask your advice on how best to proceed here. --] (]) 05:33, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

:yep - if it's not the official logo, it's a mixture of the logo with another image on that page. Obvious thing to do: grab an image that is definitely an official image, fair-use that as the logo on en:wp, mark the current image on Commons for deletion as not a free image - ] (]) 05:53, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

== "Advocating" on Curtis Yarvin ==

I see why you added "advocating" to that sentence in ], since the sentence as it stood made it unclear as to whether he was for or against the claims. But the source specifically says he was "alluding to debunked revisionism", and "advocating" seems too strong a verb. Do you think that leaving the verb as "alluding", but putting the "debunked" in parentheses, would get the point across sufficiently? I think so, and ordinarily I would go ahead and make the edit, but I figured I would defer to your seniority by checking here first. Thanks! ] (]) 18:17, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

:yeah, "advocating" probably overstates it - go for it :-) - ] (]) 18:27, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

==''The Daily Caller''==
Hi David. I see that you have been removing footnotes from various articles that cite to ''The Daily Caller'', which is a deprecated source. Thanks for doing that. With respect, however, it seems to me that you have thrown the baby out with the bathwater a few times. On the Caviezel page, you removed a sentence on Caviezel's portrayal of St. Luke in a recent film. On Maggie Hassan's page, you removed an entire paragraph on a relevant issue (felony conviction of former staffer). In both instances, it would have been better to either find new sources for the material or to mark it with a "better source needed" tag or a "deprecated" tag. Could I ask you to please be more careful not to get rid of relevant material for which other sources could be found? ] (]) 10:21, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

:Tricky with BLPs at times - if the only cite for a claim is a deprecated source, leaving the claim in is potentially problematic - but sure - ] (]) 12:27, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
::<s>Adding on to this discussion to say that some of the sources you removed (like ) have archived versions. Instead of deleting the source entirely, just change the url-status parameter from "live" to "dead". ] (]) 18:46, 4 October 2019 (UTC)</s>
::Nevermind, just saw the entry on the ] page. Misread deprecated as "depreciated". ] (]) 18:53, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
:::yeah, I'll put ] in the edit summaries - ] (]) 18:57, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

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== Editing News #2 – Mobile editing and talk pages – October 2019 ==

<em>] • ]</em>

Inside this newsletter, the ] talks about their work on the ], on ], and at ].

=== Help ===
'''What talk page interactions do you remember?''' Is it a story about how someone helped you to learn something new? Is it a story about how someone helped you get involved in a group? Something else? Whatever your story is, we want to hear it!

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==== ] ====
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* In September, the Editing team updated the mobile visual editor's editing toolbar. Anyone could see these changes in the mobile visual editor.
** <em>One toolbar:</em> All of the editing tools are located in one toolbar. Previously, the toolbar changed when you clicked on different things.
**<em>New navigation:</em> The buttons for moving forward and backward in the edit flow have changed.
**<em>Seamless switching:</em> an ] for switching between the visual and wikitext modes.
* Feedback: You can try the refreshed toolbar by opening the mobile VisualEditor on a smartphone. Please post your feedback on the ].

=== Wikimania ===
The Editing Team attended ] in Sweden. They led a session on ] and a session on ]. They tested ] new ] in the mobile visual editor with contributors. You can read more about what the team did and learned in ].

=== Looking ahead ===

*'''Talk Pages Project''': The team is thinking about the first set of proposed changes. The team will be working with a few communities to pilot those changes. The best way to stay informed is by adding your username to the list on the project page: ].
*'''Testing the mobile visual editor as the default''': The Editing team plans to post results before the end of the calendar year. The best way to stay informed is by adding the project page to your watchlist: ].
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== Please be more careful... ==

In you removed a reference to Daily Caller -- '''and two other completely unobjectional references''' -- and then added a {{tl|cn}} template.

Please don't do that. It just generates more work for other contributors. ] (]) 15:01, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

:Whoops, very sorry! I'll try harder not to do that - ] (]) 15:42, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

== ]==

Hi, can you please lift the creation protection on ] so I can move ] to that name. The article seems quite well sourced now and she has featured on BBC and ABC (Australia), regards ] (]) 18:57, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

:Done, have at it - ] (]) 20:54, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
** Thanks ] (]) 22:46, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

== Wiki Page Verification ==

Hi, any updates from your end on Rinnai checking? Appreciate if you can guide or advise on this matter as I would like to resolve this issue as soon as possible. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 01:41, 23 October 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Hi ], any updates from your end? I have been waiting for an update ever since on how to rectify the issue on Rinnai page. Can you please respond? (]) 10:26, 1 November 2019 (UTC).

== Silk Road (marketplace) ==

Hi Dave. https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Silk_Road_(marketplace)&diff=923246848&oldid=923212409 As you left no explanation , what was wrong with that pending change? User is making the same request again which has been accepted. ] (]) 15:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
:The reference link says 2 October, not 1 October as the edit claims - and freeross.org isn't a source for anything - ] (]) 16:43, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

== LifeSiteNews ==

How do you feel on the heavy reliance by our piece on ] on LifeSiteNews for exclusive documents released to them? Is there any other way to document the controversy without resorting to this source? ] (]) 16:17, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

:I don't know the specific case, but to talk about the documents as discussed - and ''verified'' - in non-deprecated reliable sources would be the general answer - linking a site that literally can't be trusted not to just make stuff up (the reason it was deprecated) seems to me not to be an option. It's a site as bad and untrustworthy as the Daily Mail or Infowars - ] (]) 19:00, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
::I protested about the heavy use of this site but my opinions were shot down because, essentially, "there is no other source" and LifeSite had had an exclusive from Vigano (WHY???) ] (]) 22:07, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

:::well, it's a deprecated source because it just can't be trusted ... so it shouldn't be used for anything. ] would be the place to turn if someone on a talk page is insisting that only a source that shouldn't be used should be used - ] (]) 22:09, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

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Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. An automated process has detected that when you recently edited ], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page ] (&nbsp;|&nbsp;). Such links are ], since a disambiguation page is merely a list of unrelated topics with similar titles. <small>(Read the ]{{*}} Join us at the ].)</small>

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these ]. Thanks, ] (]) 07:30, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

== RSN ==

I have asked Andy Digley to stop making personal comments ], its makes it hard to justify a report if he is responding to another user.] (]) 16:13, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
:no prob :-) - ] (]) 16:15, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

== The Sun articles ==

Hi Sorry to bother you. I'm a casual user who has been editing for a while learning rules from other users. I am a fan of I'm A Celebrity and the new series is coming up in a week or so. Right now, The Sun has put out a list of the purported Starting 10 and there is a user who is using it as a source for a confirmed list. The celebrities have not all arrived in Australia now and already there is a surprise celebrity who has arrived not on the Sun List (Andrew Maxwell). I reverted the edit and we raised the source asking for them to wait for the confirmation by ITV whose Press pack will most likely come out this week. He cited me for vandalism, and said that the Sun and Metro had the confirmed lineup even if there is already a deviation. he's trying to semi protect the page. Could you possibly take a look at I'm A Celebrity Series 19 page or perhaps give me a bit of advice on handling these editors. I'm just going from past experience with pages like this and I also noted that you were reverting edits with sources from The Sun, so I thought I would try to talk to you. Thanks!!!] (]) 23:59, 10 November 2019 (UTC) samusek2

:yeah, The Sun literally can't be trusted as a source for anything, and ''especially'' not for details about living people ... I suggest you note it on ] for best considered attention - it might be time to add it to the spam filter - ] (]) 11:42, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

:actually, I've raised the issue myself - getting more eyes on the issue is generally a good idea - ] - ] (]) 12:48, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

== My edit on CBDC page ==

Hello David, and thank you for your message. I really didn't know about the restriction on pubblications regarding Crypto and blockchains and of course about sanctions too.
What I want you to know is that the news I add on History section, is real and confirmed, totally mainstream, and notice that the arcticle I post on my second attempt is from a non-crypto site.
I would like you to check by yourself, and eventually, if you will understand the goodness of my intentions, I ask you to please repost my edit and remove my mention from 2019 list.
Thanks again!
Have a nice day!

https://news-tunisia.tunisienumerique.com/tunisia-tunisia-issues-central-bank-digital-currency/ <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 19:26, 11 November 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Report ==

If a user attacks you report them, or at least take it to their talk pages. But please do not de-rail RSN threads with it.] (]) 15:47, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

:I'm trying to get a statement of the claim, because ignoring the user doesn't stop the continuous walls-of-text derailing - ] (]) 15:49, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
::Then report then for PA's if you think they are making them.] (]) 15:56, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

== Regarding Dunamu/Upbit Edit ==

Dear Mr. Gerard,

Hello, I'm an employee of Dunamu/Upbit, and have been trying to update the company history.
It seems my edits were deleted due to lack of reliable sources even though most of the citations were from the Korea Herald Investor (https://en.wikipedia.org/The_Korea_Herald), probably the largest English language media in South Korea. I understand if you don't consider Block Media to be a reliable source, but I feel all the Investor cited content shouldn't be deleted?

Also, it seems rather wild to designate all crypto media as unreliable sources. I understand there are some questionable outlets, but media like Coindesk are cited in mainstream publications like the New York Times. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 05:15, 13 November 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Augur (software) revert: extensive unsourced rambling ==

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Augur_(software)&diff=926578276&oldid=926567057
This revert reverted 5 different change sets, from 2 different editors. I believe all 5 reverts were inappropriate and I would like to open dialog on this topic with you on this subject since it appears that you have been reverting every edit by people who try to improve this page.

----

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Augur_(software)&diff=926567057&oldid=926565951
This change was merely a rewording for clarity. Originally the text indicated that Forecast Foundation was separate from its leadership, and the edit corrected the text to make it clear that the software is being developed by Forecast Foundation and the two mentioned people are the founders of that foundation. This information is public knowledge, and available on the incorperation documents for Forecast Foundation in Estonia. I believe this document was not included as a citation because such inclusions are generally not part of a normal Misplaced Pages article on a business, product, platform, etc. For an example of a mention of a founder without citation to incorperation documents, see ].

If it is desired, I believe the incorperation documents can be linked to directly from an Estonian government website (but again, this is out of line with standard Misplaced Pages practice)..

----

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Augur_(software)&diff=926565951&oldid=926563085
This change I don't fully agree with, but certainly not for the reasons given in the reversion. I believe the correct text here should be `Forecast Foundation OU` and the board of directors left out. It certainly isn't "unsourced rambling".

----

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Augur_(software)&diff=926562036&oldid=926509418
This change includes a source, from an article published in a well known and reputable journal, by a nobel prize winning author that describes prediction markets and their use in depth. This source strongly supports the opening sentence.

The purpose of including this section is to give the reader a ''very'' brief primer into prediction markets as they relate to Augur. This information is critical in understanding how Augur works on a mechanism design/game theory level. The description provided is a very high level overview of how the system works, fit for human consumption. For comparison, most Game Theory articles on Misplaced Pages do not include citations in the descriptive section of their mechanism design because they are a humanized description of what is essentially a logic problem (no room for debate). They usually open with a source that goes into depth on the concept (as this article does) and then proceed to give a high level humanized overview of the topic. See ] for an example.

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Citing_sources#WP:WHYCITE, "sources are required for material that is challenged or likely to be challenged". Since the code for Augur is publicly available and executing in a public execution environment (Ethereum), there is no grounds for challenging the description beyond corrective edits. If it would help, a link to the source code on GitHub could be included, or a link to the verified source code that is currently executing on the Ethereum blockchain (which is a well known public execution environment) could be included (which matches what is on GitHub).

For a comparison, the ] page does not include citations for the final score of the game, because the game results are considered public knowledge and not likely to be challenged outside of trolling. This is true throughout wikipedia, where public knowledge of definitive facts (not research or theory) is largely un-cited. It is worth noting that no claims about human behavior are made in this paragraph aside from the opening statement which includes a very valid citation. The rest is just a process description.

----

I'll not comment on the remaining 2 edits for now, as I suspect any debate will likely be the same as the debate around the above edits and I would prefer to keep the conversation focused.

===Discussion===
On the topic of sources, there are numerous sources that describe the mechanism design of Augur in more detail than in the reverted edits, including http://www.augur.net/whitepaper.pdf, https://augur.guide/ and a number of other blogs and such. However, based on your reversion history, I suspect that these sources would not be acceptable to you, so I haven't mentioned them above. Reverting this article based on lack of sources, and then proceeding to disallow any sources from within the ecosystem that this product lives feels simply like a blanket ban on Misplaced Pages articles describing blockchain projects. I am aware of the extended authority given to administrators over blockchain related projects, but this authority does '''NOT''' extend to a blanket ban against all blockchain related projects, which in effect is what is being exercised here.

As shown above, these edits align with standard Misplaced Pages practices for describing mechanism designs and I believe warrant a much more in depth critique than what was provided in the reversion comment.

===Opinion===
Calling text that someone took time to research, author, and proof read, "extensive unsourced rambling" is a pretty hostile and empty statement. I would like to see Misplaced Pages administrators hold themselves to a higher standard when providing reasons for mass reverts like this. ] (]) 14:58, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

:I suggest the use of ]es (e.g., not crypto sites and not primary sources from the crypto projects in question), as this will make the extended ] sourced at least - ] (]) 15:08, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

::The edits that I referenced do ''not'' contain self-referencial material or crypto sites as primary sources, and I even discussed my choice of sources in the paragraphs above. I would like to engage with you on this topic and get to place where I can actually update this page and provide accurate and useful information to Misplaced Pages users, but I believe that will require you engaging with me on this beyond just repeating the same "use reliable sources" over and over.

::I implore you to actuall read the above discussion rather than making snap judgement and assuming I am just another Misplaced Pages troll. I understand that there are a lot of Misplaced Pages trolls in this space and the job of maintaining blockchain related Misplaced Pages pages is time consuming, but your comments imply that you did not read anything I typed above nor click on any of the links to edits I provided. I did my best to make your participation in this dialog as easy as possible knowing how difficult your job is, but it will require you to exercise ''some'' effort. ] (]) 17:28, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

== ANI discussion involving you ==

] There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> see section JohnReed 1917.--] (]) 18:47, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

== User talk:Crowsus ==

Plenty of unreliable sources listed on ] - I never thought I would see that many. ] (]) (]) 22:00, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

:yeah. I've been whittling down the absolute worst of the worst, which the Sun definitely counts as. Something to do in idle moments, improves the world more than Angry Birds ... - ] (]) 22:02, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

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== ] ==

You cite ]. Please note that DEPS includes the following text: ''Some editors consider The Sun to be reliable for sports reporting.'' --] (]) <small>Become ]</small> 14:10, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

:You were using it for biographical detail, not sports reporting - a clear violation of ]. Perhaps stop bending over backwards to include known liars as sources in articles - ] (]) 14:12, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
::Not per ]. Please also stop using fake edit summaries. ] <small>(])</small> 14:26, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
:::] overrides that, and the edit summaries aren't fake - ] (]) 14:27, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
::::No, nothing validates your removal with false edit summaries I'm afraid. As you well know, deprecated is not synonymous with "should never be used for anything". This is really unacceptably misleading. ] <small>(])</small> 14:29, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
:::::That's literally what the word means on Misplaced Pages, good lord - ] (]) 14:30, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
::::::That's literally not what ] says as you know. Good lord. ] <small>(])</small> 14:31, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
:::::::"they fail the reliable sources guideline in nearly all circumstances" - what do words even mean - ] (]) 14:32, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
::::::::"(should never be used for anything)" does not equal "The primary exception to deprecation is that deprecated sources can normally be cited as a primary source when the source itself is the subject of discussion" now does it? Stop making those claims in your edit summaries from now on. ] <small>(])</small> 14:37, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
It's clearly sports reporting. As it's a minor claim, backed up by other sources, I think you can sleep peacefully David. --] (]) <small>Become ]</small> 15:16, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
:Please . The link does not say that ''The Sun'' should "should not be used for anything". If you find somewhere to link to which does say "should not be used for anything" use that, but in the meantime stop asserting that says that because it patently does not. You should know better already, and have just recently been warned about this. ] <small>(])</small> 22:04, 21 November 2019 (UTC)


If it is determined that the file does not qualify under the non-free content policy, it might be deleted by an administrator seven days after the file was tagged in accordance with ]. If you have any questions, please ask them at the ]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Di-disputed fair use rationale-notice --> — Ирука<sup>]</sup> 19:05, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
::I'm not going to cut'n'paste a whole guideline page into an edit message, and I think that's an entirely reasonable summary of what ] means for these sources: even if you think you might have an exception, you ''shouldn't'' use them for anything. You being insistently bad at understanding words - and your dogged insistence on stanning for a source that literally can't be trusted - doesn't constitute a "warning", and doesn't change this - ] (]) 22:33, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
:::You are telling people the '''wrong thing''' in your edit summaries and you know that. "bad at understanding words... stanning"? Pardon? Please, you '''must''' do better. Deliberate miscommunication of the content of guideline for the specific instances you are attempting to address must stop. Deliberately misleading the community in your position is wholly unacceptable. ] <small>(])</small> 09:27, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
:::By the way, characterising DEPS as a "guideline" (i.e. a ]) is also false. That should stop too. ] <small>(])</small> 09:30, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
::::I think it's quite an accurate summation of what deprecation means in a sentence, despite your personal problems with it and fondness for The Sun. At this point you're just coming across as querulous and inane - ] (]) 09:31, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
:::::And you are unfortunately coming across as someone who is continually making false claims of "guideline" and false claims of what that "information" page actually says despite being told many many times to desist. It would be better if you simply linked the DEPS "information page" rather than make your own incorrect interpretation of what it says. You are, after all, apparently an admin so some people will actually take what you say about such matters at face value. ] <small>(])</small> 09:33, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
::::::Get back to me when you're not posting increasingly querulous defenses of The Sun to my talk page. Or keep going and have fun, I suppose - ] (]) 09:35, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
:::::::I don't quite follow you. You are making mistake after mistake, and none of this is related to ''The Sun'' or any more false claims you are making about me personally. As an admin you should know much better. ] <small>(])</small> 10:09, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
::::::::You're still making false claims in your edits summaries, to whit {{xt|rm The Sun - deprecated source, should not be used for anything}}, which, as has been pointed out to you numerous times by multiple editors, is not written in any guideline, nor even in the "information" page you refer to. Please desist from spreading misinformation, as a supposed admin you need to really start doing something about this behaviour. ] <small>(])</small> 12:37, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::You keep making this claim that I've already answered. Presumably you enjoy this - ] (]) 12:40, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::Enjoy seeing a purported admin making overtly false claims time after time despite multiple advice from multiple editors to desist, and now to see the same so-called admin simply removing items from articles which can be easily cited? No, I'm not enjoying seeing this meltdown. ] <small>(])</small> 12:45, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 19:05, 8 January 2025


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Hi David. I don't know who to ask about this, but thought you might know. There are a few sources that have come to RSN that aren't really in need of full deprecation, but that are wasting editors time by being reused and readded. Take for instance WP: Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 453#RfC: Universe Guide, a source that was both UGC and circular but was needing continuous clean up by the editors of the astronomic objects project. Ultimately deprecation was used so a warning appeared if you try to add it, stopping it from being a timesink. But really it didn't need the other aspects of deprecation. I was looking to find out how we got to the current deprecation process, and how editors went about getting it setup, as part of thinking about a slightly different solution for these sources. A different setup with a warning about UGC, self published, circular sources etc, rather than the deprecation one. I'm waffling on. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 01:00, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

so the history is the looooong RFC on the Daily Mail, which then opened a process for ruling other sources such obvious wastes of time that they could be similarly classed as almost never to be used - I would go through the deprecation RFCs in rough historical order to get an idea of how it developed as an idea.
UGC is its own class of thing, and you can see the reasoning behind deprecation: that some editors are so persistent in wanting to use known bad sources that you eventually have to make a rule that says "no." Even as all new rules are bad - David Gerard (talk) 14:34, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day!

Happy First Edit Day, David Gerard, from the Misplaced Pages Birthday Committee! Have a great day! DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 04:45, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Disputed non-free use rationale for File:King Trigger River 7'' Chrysalis 1982.jpg

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