| Revision as of 01:18, 29 December 2019 editMs Sarah Welch (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers34,946 edits →Onam festival: r← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 15:06, 18 December 2024 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,301,628 editsm Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Talk:Onam/Archive 2) (bot |
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{{Old merge|otherpage=Onam and Muslims|date=August 2024|result=''Consensus to merge''|30 August 2024}} |
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| title = Online slugfest over Onam’s ‘religiousness’ triggered by Misplaced Pages page edits |
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| org = ] |
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| url = https://www.timesnownews.com/india/article/online-slugfest-over-onam-s-religiousness-triggered-by-wikipedia-page-edits/799768 |
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| date = August 16, 2021 |
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| quote = Some users updated the Wiki page’s content to label Onam as a Hindu festival. This attracted the attention of few others who rebuffed the attempts to link Onam to Hinduism and asserted that it is a secular festival. |
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| accessdate = August 16, 2021 |
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==Onam Introduction== |
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== Merge proposal == |
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{{archive top}} |
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In second line it says that Onam is a 'National Harvest Festival' of Kerala. It makes no sense as the word 'national' cant be used in this context, Kerala being state of India. Even on the official Kerala government page (http://www.kerala.gov.in/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3700&Itemid=2753) it describes Onam as grand national harvest festival, but it doesn't specifically says national festival "of Kerala". So it should be replaced with 'harvest festival of Kerala'. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 08:03, 13 September 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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'''''Consensus reached to merge article''''' ] (]) 22:50, 3 October 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{done}} -- ] ] 14:20, 13 September 2013 (UTC) |
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Onam is celebrated not only by hindus but by every keralites.. ] (]) 14:50, 2 September 2017 (UTC) |
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First point. As noted vineet John above, Onam is not just a Hindu festival but rather a Malayali cultural festival having roots in Hindu theology, as it’s celebrated by all malayalis (Keralites) regardless of religion. Second point. It celebrates Mahabali and his return and not Vamana ] (]) 21:43, 9 September 2017 (UTC) |
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I would like to echo this point. I know this festival to be celebrated, assiduously, by pious Jacobite, Mar Thoma & other Malayali Christians from families that have be Christian for nearly 2000 years (since before to the introduction of vedic Hinduism to Kerala). In my city, Onam is celebrated jointly by Malayalis of all three major Kerala faiths (Hindu, Christian, Muslim), and there is no mention of any connection to Vedic theology. It is structured as a celebration simply of Mahabali, who is described as a great king who led Kerala to great stability and prosperity. I would not be at all surprised if the story of Mahabali was a local pre-Hindu legend simply imbued with Hindu religious features after the fact when the Namboothiris took over.] (]) 17:28, 21 November 2017 (UTC) |
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==Image of Puli Kali and Boat Race == |
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There is no image of "Puli Kali" and "Boat Race" which I think is required. |
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We can replace one of the three Onappookkalam images with a "Puli Kali" and another one with Boat Race. |
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-- ] <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added 11:45, 9 September 2011 (UTC).</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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==Happy Onam!== |
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Taking out the "Critical Views" section. Critical views of anything including a festival should be discussed separately on separate pages and should not be used to distract from the main article. Please refrain from vandalising any article with a particular point of view whether critical or not. -- ] |
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:Also read the edit summaries before putting back the "Critical Views." -- ] |
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=== Alternate Legend === |
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In an alternate legend, it is believed by many Malayalees that during the Onam Parasurama visits Kerala.<ref> P. 253 ''Some South Indian Villages'' By Gilbert Slater </ref> Dr. Gundert defines in his Malayalam Dictionary, Onam, as the day that Parasurama recovered Kerala from the sea.<ref> P. 47 ''Folk-lore'' Published 1960, Indian Publications </ref> <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 07:46, 18 April 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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Actually, according to Puranas, Because, Parasurama recovered Kerala from the sea and his time was after the rule of Mahabali. Mahabali was in Kritha yuga, the first of four yugas. Parasurama was in Threthayuga, the second one. Then how can Mahabali rule Kerala which was recovered from sea after his period?. The rule of Mahabali in Kerala, Vamana sending him to Paathaala, and Mahabali's homecoming are all fabricated storys. Onam is really the birth day of Lord Vamana. The "Thrikkakkarayappan" we make, is actually the Lord Vamana of Thrikkakkara Temple. |
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<ref>Bhagavatha Maha Purana</ref> |
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==Image== |
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The picture of Trivandrum Railaway Station Building on the Onam night is totally incongrous with the article. The modern day Onam celeberation can be better highlighted through a picture of a boat race. --] 11:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC) |
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==WikiProject Dravidian civilizations== |
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<center>]</center> |
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] 10:44, 14 October 2007 (UTC) |
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==Onappookkalam== |
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] (]) 07:32, 22 February 2008 (UTC) |
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The Onappookkalam illustrated is indeed an Onappookkalam but not a "Typical" one. The basic rule is that it should be symmetrical. But the illustrated one has an image of the snake boat which is not "symmetrical" from all directions. |
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==Do we need so many Pookalams?== |
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We have 3 pookalam images and additional one showing children making one. We should keep the one with the children and remove 2 of the others. What do you guys think? ] (]) 13:56, 17 August 2010 (UTC) |
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== Accessibility == |
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An Indian work colleague mentioned this to me today, so I came looking for further details. I haven't the time (as I'm still at work!) to read the article completely, or do any editing, but there needs to be more explanation for someone like me who knows nothing about this culture. In particular, the lede paragraph is devoid of any wikilinks, yet every non-English word is an unknown to me. -- ] (]) 08:56, 5 September 2011 (UTC) |
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==Hindu festival== |
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One of the very few sources we have for this article clearly states it is a national festival. If we need to elaborate what this means, please provide sources to do so. --] (]) 16:35, 12 September 2013 (UTC) |
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It is mentioned about Onam that it is a national festival kerala. It is celebrated by Keralites all over the world, irrespective of their religions. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 15:09, 14 September 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:Are you proposing a change to the article? --] (]) 17:14, 16 September 2013 (UTC) |
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It is not a hindu festival but a harvesting festival of the state.. there is no religious bar for this.. every keralites celebrate Onam.. ] (]) 14:52, 2 September 2017 (UTC) |
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Onam is a secular harvest festival of kerala, related to hindu mythology but not a hindu festival itself. It's a cultural to Malayalees. |
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Please make that change it is of huge significance. There is no religious annotation to this festival and should be known as such ] (]) 16:27, 5 September 2017 (UTC) |
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== Edit request on 16 September 2013 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|answered=yes}} |
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<!-- Begin request --> |
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I want to edit this because of a sentence that tells Mahabali as king of Malayalis. It is not like that. Bali coming to Earth was a boon given to that benevolent king of Earth by Lord Vishnu when he sent Bali as Emperor of Patala lokam. Hence, every year when Bali supposed to come to the Earth, that would be celebrated as Onam festival in Kerala. |
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<!-- End request --> |
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] (]) 04:12, 16 September 2013 (UTC) |
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:Can you please provide a ] for this information? Given that we're discussing ancient stories, is there a possibility that there are multiple versions of the stories? --] (]) 17:17, 16 September 2013 (UTC) |
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== Edit request on 17 September 2013 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|answered=yes}} |
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<!-- Begin request --> |
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Onam is the national festival of Kerala. It is not a hindu festival. |
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<!-- End request --> |
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] (]) 03:13, 17 September 2013 (UTC) |
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:We've a source that says otherwise, and a discussion on the topic ]. --] (]) 17:14, 17 September 2013 (UTC) |
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== Edit request on 20 September 2013 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|answered=yes}} |
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<!-- Begin request --> |
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<!-- End request --> |
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] (]) 05:25, 20 September 2013 (UTC) |
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It is a National Festival of Kerala, not specific to religion |
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:See the above edit request. There has been discussion on the topic and sources provided to show otherwise. If you wish to start a new discussion on the topic, you need to provide reliable sources that support your assertion, and you don't need to use the "editsemiprotected" template. ] (]) 11:15, 20 September 2013 (UTC) |
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The reason that Onam may be called a 'Religious festival' by many, is mostly due to its roots, which come from the Hindu mythological story of King ] . However, for sometime, Onam has evolved into one that is celebrated by people across all religions in Kerala. One of the sources I can cite for this is here : <ref> http://www.thehindu.com/books/onam-and-its-backdrops/article2635539.ece </ref>. Note the statement that "Of late, it has evolved into a national festival of all the Malayalees, irrespective of their religious affiliation." |
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Another reference I cite for this is the official Kerala government website (though I have noted a few errors on this page too). <ref> http://www.kerala.gov.in/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3700&Itemid=2753 </ref> . Here, Onam is not referred to as a religious festival, but Vishu, Deepavali, and Mahashivrathri are called so. Also, note the statement "The Mahasivarathri is essentially '''a religious festival unlike the Onam and Thiruvathira'''". |
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Often, it is the case that festivals originating from one religion, are later adopted by celebrated by people across differing faiths. The same goes for many fests such as ] , which is a very widespread festival celebrated by people of several faiths. However, (to quote another article of this type) I note that the article on ] does not specify it as being a 'Christian' festival, though it does mention it is of 'Christian' type, and celebrated by many non-Christians. |
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I propose that we modify the article to read that so: "Onam (Malayalam: ഓണം) is the most popular festival celebrated by the people of Kerala, India. It derives its roots from the Hindu mythology of King ]. It is also the Harvest festival of Kerala with State holidays on ..." ... (rest of the article) |
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I will post more references if I can find them. |
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] (]) 04:01, 27 September 2013 (UTC) |
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:Thanks for looking into this. |
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:From what you've provided so far, we have alternative descriptions rather than justification for removing the current description. The reviewed book would likely provide the information we need to resolve this. --] (]) 16:50, 27 September 2013 (UTC) |
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== Onam is a Hindu festival == |
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Some of the editors seem to object with the ] which describes Onam as a Hindu festival. The only reason for such objection is that Onam is also celebrated by a good section of the non-Hindus in Kerala. Chirstmas, for example, is also celebrated by a lot of non-Christians, but that does not prevent us from terming Christmas as a Christian festival. Onam commemorates a piece of mythology which do not find acceptance among the non-Hindus of Kerala. |
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Onam by virtue of it is a Hindu festival, which is also celebrated by a good section of keralite non-Hindus. |
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] (]) 19:41, 30 August 2014 (UTC) |
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This is the official statement about Onam, by the Government of kerala. |
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http://www.prd.kerala.gov.in/onam.htm <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 04:56, 17 August 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:Greenbangalore: you are replying to a 2014 thread. The official statement does not say that it is not a Hindu festival, it actually mentions Hindu mythologies consistent with what is in the article. of the article and the 2017 version of the statement are consistent, although please note that per WP:WWIN, wikipedia articles are not advertisement, politically correct venue, media relation platform or mirrors of blogs, commercial or government websites. ] (]) 13:46, 17 August 2017 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 7 September 2014 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Onam|answered=y}} |
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<!-- Begin request --> |
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Please change 'Onam (Malayalam: ഓണം) is a festival celebrated by the people of Kerala, India.' to 'Onam (Malayalam: ഓണം) is a festival celebrated by the people of Kerala, India.'.......Onam is not seen as a religious fest in Kerala.It is the festival of all keralites who live all around the globe.So please have the mind to change. |
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<!-- End request --> |
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] (]) 08:11, 7 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:We've sources that say otherwise. Please see the previous discussions. --] (]) 17:56, 7 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:Onam is essentially a Hindu festival. It's based on events articulated in Hindu scriptures and mythology. It's date is arrived on using Malayalam calendar, which is a Hindu calendar. Yes, It is celebrated by a good number of non-Hindus in Kerala. However, that doesn't take away from Onam it's innate quality of being a Hindu festival. To satisfy WP's standards, we also have verifiable citations from reliable sources to that regard. ] (]) 09:50, 9 September 2014 (UTC) |
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] '''Not done:''' The page's protection level and/or your ] have changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to ]. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details.<!-- Template:ESp --> - ] (]) 16:45, 9 September 2014 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 24 August 2015 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Onam|answered=y}} |
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<!-- Begin request --> |
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"Hindu festival" is wrong it is festival of all religion in Kerala |
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<!-- End request --> |
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] (]) 17:14, 24 August 2015 (UTC) |
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{{Not done}} as the article clearly states it is "a Hindu festival celebrated in Kerala, India. It is also the state festival of Kerala" Looking at the history, it clearly started as a Hindu festival before becoming celebrated by everyone. - ] (]) 17:58, 24 August 2015 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 27 August 2015 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Onam|answered=y}} |
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<!-- Begin request --> |
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I would like to change below sentence |
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QUOTE: |
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Onam (Malayalam: ഓണം) is a Hindu festival celebrated in Kerala, India.[ |
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UNQUOTE: |
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Onam is the official festival of Kerala for all Keralites or Malayalees. It is not a HINDU festival. It is a festival celebrated by all Malayalees alike be it Hindus, Muslims or Christians. |
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Please do not bring a religious version to it. |
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Please find below my addition from http://www.onamfestival.org/onam-in-kerala.html |
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QUOTE: |
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Onam in Kerala: |
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Onam is the biggest festival of Kerala. But, there is a lot more to Onam than being just a festival. Onam reflects the faith of the people of Kerala A belief in their legendary past, religion and power of worship. It shows the high spirit of the people who go out of the way to celebrate the festival in the prescribed manner and a grand fashion. |
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Best of Season and Weather |
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Onam is also a harvest festival. It is celebrated at a time when everything appears so nice and good. The beautiful landscape of Kerala can be seen in its full radiance at this time of the Malayalam New Year. Weather, it seems, also seeks to be a part of the festival. It contributes by becoming pleasantly warm and sunny. Fields look brilliant with a bountiful harvest. Farmers feel on top of the world as they watch the result of their hard labour with pride. |
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Children's Joy and Homecoming |
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Children eagerly wait for the arrival of the carnival. Why shouldn't they. It is time for them to get new clothes, toys and everything else they asked for or thought of. Numerous uncles, aunts and grandmas grace their wishes with delight. It is also a time for homecoming for people staying away from the families. Their arrival multiples the joy of the festival several folds. |
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Welcoming a Very Special Visitor |
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Onam awaits one very special visitor, Kerala's most loved legendary King Maveli. He is the King who once gave the people a golden era in Kerala. The King is so much attached to his kingdom that it is believed that he comes annually from the nether world to see his people living happily. It is in honour of King Mahabali, affectionately called Onathappan, that Onam is celebrated. |
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Womenfolk make special arrangements to welcome Onathappan. Flower carpets are laid in the front courtyards with dedication and full sincerity. A grand meal is prepared on the day of Thiru Onam. It is on this day that Maveli's spirit visits Kerala. Lip smacking meal consists of best of Kerala cuisine including avial, sambhar, rasam, parippu and the payasam. |
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Cultural Extravaganza |
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One of the most marvelous facets of Onam is the unfolding of its rich and well-established culture. We see not just glimpses but a whole gamut of it in the ten-day-long carnival. Pulikali, Kaikottikali, Kummattikalli, Kathakali, Thumbi Thullal besides several other folk arts and traditions can be seen on one platform called Onam. |
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Of Unity and Team Spirit |
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The beauty of the festival lies in it's secular fabric. People of all religions, castes and communities celebrate the festival with equal joy and verve. Onam also helps to create an atmosphere of peace and brotherhood by way of various team sports organised on the day. |
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Onam is the passion of the people of Kerala. And, pride of India! |
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UNQUOTE: |
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Vibin Varghese |
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<!-- End request --> |
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] (]) 16:04, 27 August 2015 (UTC) |
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:{{Not done}} - as you yourself have admitted it is from http://www.onamfestival.org/onam-in-kerala.html - so to use it, would be a blatant copyright violation. - ] (]) 16:11, 27 August 2015 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 27 August 2015 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Onam|answered=yes}} |
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<!-- Begin request --> |
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Onam (Malayalam: ഓണം) is a Hindu festival celebrated in Kerala, India. |
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Please change the above sentence with "Onam (Malayalam: ഓണം) is a festival celebrated in Kerala, India." |
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Reason: Onam is not at all a religious festival. It is the harvest festival celebrated by all the religious people in kerala. |
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<!-- End request --> |
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] (]) 18:03, 27 August 2015 (UTC) |
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{{Not done}} Verifiable Reliable Sources say the Onam is a Hindu festival. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 28 August 2015 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Onam|answered=yes}} |
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<!-- Begin request --> |
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ONAM is a not Hindu festival . It is the festival celebrating all people in Kerala State. |
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The story happening in before Christ . Those days there is no religion in India. |
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Please remove the work 'Hindu festival' from the article. |
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<!-- End request --> |
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] (]) 18:12, 28 August 2015 (UTC) |
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{{Not done}} Verifiable Reliable Sources say the Onam is a Hindu festival. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> |
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==August 30 2016== |
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Happy advanced wishes of Onam. |
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1) I would like to ask if we can move the 10 days of Onam into a separate section as it demands more importance on its own .Currently the ten days of Onam are grouped with the section : Rituals. It would be great if the ten days are mentioned before this section and we can try to add more information for the days. |
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2) Also in the infobox I think it will be better if we mention that it is the 'Thiruvonam' date which is mentioned since Onam lasts for 10 days + 2. Making the section 'Days of Onam' can also solve this. |
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] (]) 14:08, 30 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== Hindu == |
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Hope these two edits will give other Misplaced Pages editors some idea about the word Hindu and how it is wrongly used by so many ignorant people. Hindu is a ] word. One has to look at how and when this non-Indian word was used for the first time in various regions of modern-day India. In the article ], the use of the word Hindu in historical context is terribly wrong and misplaced. We can see such wrong usages on many websites including Misplaced Pages. Another point is that there are many fictional stories. One story tells that ] had ruled ] and another story tells that Kerala was created by ]. The funny thing is that, as per those stories, Mahabali had lived before the period of Parasurama because ] who had sent Mahabali to the netherworld was the fifth avathar of Vishnu and Parasurama who had created Kerala was the sixth avathar of Vishnu. Then, how could Kerala be ruled by Mahabali before it was created by Parasurama? Even those fictional stories are conflicting with one another and anyone can interpret them as s/he wants. Instead of relying heavily on those conflicting fictional stories, we should look at the historical facts. Onam is a very ancient rice harvest festival, it is not a religious festival, but some people try to hijack it and want to project it as their own religious festival and even use Misplaced Pages to achieve their goal.] (]) 08:41, 21 January 2017 (UTC) |
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That is your POV. First of all, it doesn't matter what the etymology of the word 'Hindu' is, even the word 'India' is not of Indic origin. There are umpteen sources provided on the page which clearly says that it is a "Hindu festival", as per your POV(point of view) it is not, it does not mean you would push your POV on Misplaced Pages. A festival can be both related to harvest and Hindu culture, they are not mutually exclusive. As far as your bone with mythology is concerned, that is again your POV and doubt, you can not push your doubts and POVs on the page. Onam is a "Hindu festival" also a harvest festival, it is an established FACT, backed by reliable sources on the page, you are actually attempting to hijack the page to push your POV. ] (]) 12:49, 21 January 2017 (UTC) |
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We have to check whether Onam is a religious festival or not. |
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GOVERNMENT OF KERALA: |
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ONAM - The National Festival of Kerala: Whatever be the truth behind this legend, Onam has for last several centuries been a grand national harvest festival in which all sections of the people participate with extreme jubilation. It is mentioned as a national harvest festival. It is not mentioned as a Hindu festival. |
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MAHA SHIVARATHRI - The Mahasivarathri is essentially a religious festival unlike the Onam. Here it clearly states that Onam is not a religious festival. |
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When the Official Web Portal of the Government of Kerala states that Onam is not a religious festival, projecting it as a religious festival is wrong and misleading. We have to make necessary changes to this article.] (]) 10:35, 22 January 2017 (UTC) |
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: Does Govt of Kerala own 'Onam'? No. Is it state government festival? No. Its a communal festival, celebrated by common people of Kerala. It is a Hindu festival, celebrated around the time of rice harvest season in the state. Again, kindly read so many reliable sources from reputed publications and platforms, cited on the page, which call it a "HINDU FESTIVAL". BTW, the source which you have cited also associates Onam with the Hindu legend. ] (]) 14:02, 22 January 2017 (UTC) |
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::{{tq|We have to check whether Onam is a religious festival or not.}} No we don't. If reliable sources say one way or another, we need to consider them. If we have reliable sources for multiple viewpoints, then we need to decide which to present and in what level of detail. |
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::Scholarly, historical sources are preferred in situations like this. --] (]) 16:12, 22 January 2017 (UTC) |
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:It's just the author's POV that Onam shouldn't be called Hindu because the word is loaded owing to its Persian origin. Would you dare say the millions of people who call themselves Hindu in India are not Hindu because Hindu is a Persian word disconnected to their religion. I am just throwing you an analogy. I moreover find citations from reliable sources for the Hindu assertion. That does it for wikipedia. ] (]) 18:51, 2 February 2017 (UTC) |
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{{reflist-talk}} |
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== unsourced sections and OR == |
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I am removing much blog-like personal essay such as the large section on "Ten Days of Onam Celebrations" (some of it is copied from a SCFI website, but that is either WP:Copyvio or WP:Circular, and wrong either way). The few sources cited do not verify the paragraphs. It would be nice if someone can find scholarly reliable source(s) and rewrite these sections using those WP:RS with NPOV. A discussion of concerns or comments are welcome, ] (]) 15:26, 2 March 2017 (UTC) |
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== Sources, embedded quotes and edits == |
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{{ping|82.42.7.18}} Please do not repeatedly remove sourced content, for which three ] are cited with embedded quotes for easier verification. If you have concerns, please explain. Your cooperation is requested, ] (]) 14:52, 5 August 2017 (UTC) |
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:When '''98 percent''' of the so-called Hindus '''DO NOT''' celebrate Onam, how can Onam be called a Hindu festival? In fact, Onam is celebrated by all the ] people, the ]-speaking people, across the world irrespective of religion, caste and tribe. The harvest festival Onam is the State festival of Kerala. Those who call Onam a religious festival, do not know the real concept of Onam. As far as Onam is concerned, the ] community should be given importance, not any religion. The references given to claim Onam as a religious festival are not correct. In one of the books, "Islamic Reform in South Asia", the author, even wrongly calls the ] as Hindu New Year. Such books are not reliable. In fact, the astronomical New Year is celebrated as ] in Kerala and in different names in other regions of India. Onam is celebrated only by the ] community and NOT by other communities of India. ] (]) 11:21, 7 August 2017 (UTC) |
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::Welcome to wikipedia. We summarize published reliable sources, not personal opinions / prejudices / wisdom. You may want to write a blog, but wikipedia is not a blog. We must ignore unpublished assertions / proclamations / wishful thinking / insights. Respect the wikipedia community agreed ] and ]. Please review wikipedia's ]. ] (]) 12:41, 7 August 2017 (UTC) |
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== Onam - a religious and cultural festival == |
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It's both a religious and cultural festival, hence shouldn't it say "Hindu, cultural" under "Type"? ] (]) 03:47, 9 August 2017 (UTC) |
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:The cultural festival part is included in the 'Observed by' field of the infobox. Type is a different infobox parameter with certain guidelines, and it should be based on those guidelines. Repetition is unnecessary. ] (]) 12:17, 9 August 2017 (UTC) |
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== Tags == |
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117.216.75.136: Welcome to wikipedia. Please review ] guidelines. Do explain on this talk page, the specific reasons with reliable sources, what is it that motivates ?, ] (]) 18:32, 11 August 2017 (UTC) |
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== Onam is an ancient harvest festival == |
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Onam is NOT a Hindu festival. According to the Government of Kerala, Onam is NOT a religious festival . Onam is the State festival. Onam is the National Festival of Kerala. That is the official stand. The democratically elected Government represents the people of Kerala. |
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Kerala was ruled by the ] until the 12th century CE. History shows that the stories of ] and ] were brought to Kerala by the people who migrated from North India to the ]. Those stories were originally written in ], and Sanskrit was NOT the language of the ]. One group from North India brought the story of Mahabali and another group brought the story of Parashurama. That is why we have conflicting stories. According to those stories Parashurama who allegedly created Kerala, lived after the period of Mahabali. How Mahabali had ruled Kerala before it was created by Parashurama? Those are just mythical stories brought to the ], and are NOT historical facts. Even in that story, Mahabali had ruled somewhere in North India because Mahabali was the great great grandson of sage ] who was based in the northwestern part of the Indian subcontinent and legends attribute the region of ] to be derived from his name.<ref name="Snedden2015">{{citation|last=Snedden|first=Christopher|title=Understanding Kashmir and Kashmiris|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=s5KMCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA22|year=2015|publisher=Oxford University Press|isbn=978-1-84904-342-7|pages=22–}}</ref> |
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] is NOT a ] language. The Malayalam New Year/Kerala New Year is NOT the Hindu New Year. ] (]) 06:02, 12 August 2017 (UTC) |
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{{reflist-talk}} |
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:59.92.202.165: Welcome to wikipedia. Please review wikipedia's ], particularly about ], ] and ]. The government website you link does not state anywhere "Onam is NOT a Hindu festival". In contrast, it too is clearly mentioning Vishnu, Mahabali etc... which is all Hindu mythology, and which this article also mentions. Misplaced Pages is not a personal blog to post one's wisdom / prejudices / opinions; or a place to publish original research. We summarize reliable sources. The article already cites scholarly sources, with embedded quotes, that Onam is a Hindu festival, and it is also an important state festival that is observed as a cultural festival by both Hindus and non-Hindus. There is nothing wrong with non-Christians celebrating Christmas, non-Hindus celebrating Onam, etc and more importantly in the summary of multiple sources in this article. ] (]) 08:33, 12 August 2017 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 16 August 2017 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Onam|answered=yes}} |
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Onam (Malayalam: ഓണം) is an annual Kerala's national festival with origins in the state of Kerala in ] (]) 10:03, 16 August 2017 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format.<!-- Template:ESp --> <small>''']''' (])</small> 10:10, 16 August 2017 (UTC) |
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== Sources == |
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{{ping|Greenbangalore}} Misplaced Pages is not a personal blog, and scholarship by non-Indians because of their ethnic origin is not appropriate. Please review WP:RS guidelines and stop edit warring. Please discuss your concerns. Your cooperation is requested, ] (]) 04:55, 17 August 2017 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 24 August 2017 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Onam|answered=yes}} |
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] (]) 07:27, 24 August 2017 (UTC) |
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Onam is an annual HARVESTING festival with origins in the state of Kerala in India. |
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:] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] <span style="background-color:#368ec9; font-family:Papyrus">(Jalen D. Folf)</span> (]) 07:32, 24 August 2017 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 29 August 2017 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Onam|answered=yes}} |
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Add onam in the national festival of kerala. ] (]) 12:14, 29 August 2017 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 29 August 2017 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Onam|answered=yes}} |
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Onam is the national harvest festival of Kerala. ] (]) 12:16, 29 August 2017 (UTC) |
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:] '''Already done'''<!-- Template:ESp --> Already in the article ] ] 12:45, 29 August 2017 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 2 September 2017 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Onam|answered=yes}} |
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Onam is Keralas's Festival, every cast and religion in the state celebrate it, Remove the Hindu religion from the introduction. Its not correct. ] (]) 17:22, 2 September 2017 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done:''' please provide ] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> — ] (]) 17:25, 2 September 2017 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 3 September 2017 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Onam|answered=yes}} |
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Onam 2017 dates range from August 24, 2017 to September 4, 2017 and not September 6, 2017 as mentioned in the page. There are only 10 days of Onam. |
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<ref>https://www.kerala.gov.in/documents/10180/598db490-1f6f-40e6-8de2-519ac7d81a6c</ref> ] (]) 12:58, 3 September 2017 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done:''' please provide ] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] ] 16:34, 3 September 2017 (UTC) |
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:] '''Done'''<!-- Template:ESp --> ] ] 23:46, 3 September 2017 (UTC) |
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Hindu Festival |
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Onam is a secular festival although the mythological origins are Hindu, and recently being targeted by Hindu Religious parties to be made as a Hindu. Ms_Sarah_Welch is trying to potray it as a hindu festival, which is a bad character from a wikipedia editor. The person is ignoring the official source published by the government of Kerala, and trying to portray own idea. |
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== Edit Request, September 6 2017 == |
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'''Onam is definitely a Secular Festival and the State Festival of the State of Kerala, India - Request to correct the Article ''' |
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This is another request to classify Onam as a secular festival and do not tag it as Hindu. This is a serious offense to the people of Kerala who celebrate it as a State Festival.<ref>{{cite web|title=Onam - State Festival|url=https://www.keralatourism.org/event/onam/31/275|website=Kerala Tourism(Govt. Website)|publisher=Kerala Government|accessdate=6 September 2017}}</ref> <ref>{{cite web|title=Festivals in Kerala|url=https://kerala.gov.in/major-festivals|website=Kerala Government|publisher=Kerala Government|accessdate=6 September 2017}}</ref>All agree to the legend of Malayalees legendary King Maveli and the mythological origins are Hindu. However classifying the festival as Hindu can have socially disruptive effects. Such classification destroys the festival's secular nature and can be used by radical groups to bring divide in the social fabric of Kerala. |
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One may argue that Christmas celebrated by non-Christians in Kerala does not mean that Christmas is not Christian, however there are religious rituals for Christmas that identifies it as Christian. Onam on the contrary do not have a religious ritual that is Hindu, but the festivities are all social and secular. Citing sources here. <ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2016/09/12/is-the-secular-fabric-of-kerala-slowly-unravelling_a_21470172/|accessdate=6 September 2017|agency=huffingtonpost|title='Secular Fabric of Kerala'}}</ref> <ref>{{cite news|title=Onam - Secular|url=http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/todays-paper/tp-agri-biz-and-commodity/a-festival-that-upholds-secular-values/article2437173.ece|accessdate=6 September 2017|agency=Hindu Bussiness Line}}</ref><ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/onam-the-vasudhaiva-kutumbakam-festival-of-india-115082800276_1.html|accessdate=6 September 2017|agency=Business Standard|title=Vasudhaiva-Kutumbakam-Festival/"World-is-one-Family Festival"}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|title=Onam - State Festival|url=https://www.keralatourism.org/event/onam/31/275|website=Kerala Tourism(Govt. Website)|publisher=Kerala Government|accessdate=6 September 2017}}</ref> |
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<ref>{{cite book|last1=Rañjit|first1=Pi|title=Malayaliyude bhoothakalangal|publisher=Kar̲ant̲ Buks|isbn=8122607241, 9788122607246|accessdate=6 September 2017}}</ref> |
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My Edit on the Onam page has been removed and tagged disruptive by ]. |
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I came to this page to see that there are many requests to mark Onam as Secular, not non-hindu, but "Secular with origins in Hindu Mythology" is the ground reality. If Misplaced Pages editors want to side with the Radical forces who want to destroy a unanimous secular social fabric, common people who rely on this page as a source are misled. Is this what Misplaced Pages wants? |
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A better version on the local festival Onam in malayalam is available on the Ml wikipedia : -]|(]) 05:23, 6 September 2017 (UTC) |
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{{reflist-talk}} |
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{{od}} |
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Vvidyadh: Numerous scholarly reliable sources state Onam is a Hindu festival as the cites and embedded quotes confirm, and we must stick with what WP:RS state. You are wrong about Onam rituals not being Hindu! They are. I have witnessed them myself in Kerala (e.g. early morning in the Thrikkakara Vamana temple – Kochi, the day Onam starts; many more)! Plus there is a lot more to Hinduism than what you prejudicially and incorrectly allege. Your arguments about "a serious offense to the people of Kerala" and "want to side with the Radical forces who want to destroy a unanimous secular social fabric" are strange and irrelevant, as if a festival being "Hindu" or "Christian" or a particular religion is a crime or wrong! Misplaced Pages cannot declare a Christian festival or Hindu festival or Muslim festival as non-religious and secular by ignoring scholarly sources, regardless of your personal opinions / prejudices / wisdoms / absurd fears. We summarize what multiple, high quality, mainstream scholarly sources are stating (see WP:V and WP:RS), not what you, blogs, government website or propaganda op-eds lecture. Misplaced Pages articles are not a political platform, nor a mirror of soapbox or social engineering or ]. Please see ] guidelines. FWIW, the article already states that the festival is also observed by non-Hindus, etc. ] (]) 14:16, 6 September 2017 (UTC) |
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{{od}} |
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Ms Sarah Welch: In my references I have cited verifiable sources. As you mentioned the Vamanamoorthy temple in Thrikkakara, communal harmony is the hallmark of the celebrations there, and it is not just the day Onam starts but lasts through the 10 days of Onam, and this indeed sides with the Hindu origin of the festival. I am not debating that at all. What I wish you to see is the fact that in the modern day, Kerala and malayalees celebrates it as a festival of the state and one of communal harmony. No Hindu God is worshiped in the state wide festivities during the festival, unlike Christmas which is also celebrated in Kerala. Please point out where WP:V and WP:RS are violated by the sources I have cited. The references are not made to blogs, but to published articles in newsprint, books by local authors and Government websites. In line with ] these are also not too new. As mentioned before, I do not debate on the Hindu Origins of Onam (IMO nor the people who spoke on this topic here before me ), but in the modern day to classify a state festival (or national festival) as a religious one is not appropriate. The Encyclopedia Britannica source that you have quoted does not hold factually true in the present day. And Onam is not history, it is a festival that is in the present and celebrated every year by Malayali people of all religions and castes of Kerala. Not a mirror of anything but a fact. In line with ], but what if ] that you have used is old and outdated? |
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Can we take this topic for a dispute resolution as sources disagree? <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> |
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:Vividyadh: Either you have some typos above, or you misunderstood what I wrote. You are grossly mistaken, and your tendentious (mis)representations are not helpful. Yes, I have spent all ten days, wonderful days, in Kerala experiencing Onam. It is a Hindu festival, it is as Hindu as Christmas is a Christian festival (both attract the participation of many religious communities, but an encyclopedia article cannot scrub out the respective reference to Hinduism or Christianity)! It is inappropriate and prejudicial for you to imply that being Hindu is somehow bad or evil or "not secular" or "...". Please stop pretending to be the official spokesman or spokeswoman or "fact source" for "Kerala and malayalees", and it does not matter how the communist-socialist-religious coalition parties in power and political leaders in Kerala state celebrate the Onam festival, because wikipedia articles are not a Kerala government publication or propaganda arm. We need to stick to summarizing high-quality RS scholarship. No RS states Onam is "not a Hindu festival", numerous recent scholarly WP:RS state that it "is a Hindu festival" (many are already cited in this article with embedded quotes). I am not going to explain to you what WP:RS is, because that is done on ] page and repeating that page is not the purpose of this talk page. Please try the help desk / TEAHOUSE. FWIW, you seem to be ignoring the fact that this article already states Onam is observed as a cultural festival across religious lines. ] (]) 01:13, 8 September 2017 (UTC) |
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:: Ms Sarah Welch: I acknowledge the fact that the article states Onam is observed as a cultural festival, but I was just trying to show Misplaced Pages that sources disagree to the "classification" of the festival as Hindu. The first line says its "Hindu", then page classified as Hindu, and in the fact that its observed as a cultural festival has a relatively negligible importance in the article. Being a Malayalee Hindu, I need not pretend to be a spokesperson for anything Malayalee or Hindu. I sense a politically motivated editor in you when you throw such allegations. Also, I am not implying that being Hindu is bad or evil, that is a misinterpretation of the discussion and takes focus away from the point being debated. Please let us keep to the debated point, with all respect to being Hindu. --] (]) 06:50, 11 September 2017 (UTC) |
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As Vimal has pointed out above Onam is a secular festival with roots in Hindu theology. Please make suitable corrections. He has quoted all the standard verifiable sources. So I am not going to repeat. Actually it’s rather disturbing that a visitor who has limited experience is preferred over actual people from Kerala and verifiable sources. ] (]) 21:49, 9 September 2017 (UTC) |
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Also I checked.. Christmas is not described as a christian festival in the first line.. just as a festival to commemorate the birth of Christ. Similarly Onam is a festival to commemorate the symbolic return of Mahabali. Using the term Hindu there is siding with a few religious extremist who want to make it non secular. Those events are described in the article. Please give Onam the same courtesy as Christmas ] (]) 22:01, 9 September 2017 (UTC) |
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:{{ping|Gobroto}} Welcome to wikipedia. You just opened your account and have 4 edits to your credit. It is inapproproate to lecture, "Actually it’s rather disturbing that a visitor who has limited experience" when your experience on wikipedia is far more limited, or just started! Your request does not make sense since we rely on WP:RS. Please review wikipedia polices and guidelines, for which I just posted some links for you. The Christmas article does mention Christian / Christianity prominently in the lead para and the infobox. ] (]) 11:19, 10 September 2017 (UTC) |
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: Seriously? I am of Keralite origin living in North India and even Iand its a Hindu festival. Just read the origin of Onam and you will understand. {{Quote|The festival commemorates the Vamana avatar of Vishnu, the subsequent homecoming of the legendary Emperor Mahabali and mythologies of Hinduism related to Kashyapa and Parashurama.}} The ''pukalam'' is intended to welcome Mahabali when he arrives from Patala. Are any of these mythological figures not Hindu ? The best you could say is that it is a regional festival, limited to Kerala and other parts of South India, but slowly gaining popularity within India. ] (]) 11:25, 10 September 2017 (UTC) |
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== Edit Request - Is Onam Harvest Festival? == |
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Dears, as indicated in the Article is Onam a Harvest Festival? Are the sources conforming to ]? |
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Rice being the major crop, I do not know of any Rice season that end with a Harvest atleast just before Onam, as what precedes the Malayalam Month of Chingam is the Month of Karkidakom, which is marked for heavy rains and difficult times<ref>{{cite web|title=Karkidakom and its Traditions|url=http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Thiruvananthapuram/karkidakam-and-its-traditions/article3644811.ece|website=The Hindu|publisher=Hindu|accessdate=11 September 2017}}</ref>. |
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I have a list of different rice seasons here:<ref>{{cite web|title=Rice Growing Seasons|url=http://www.kissankerala.net/kissan/kissancontents/riceTable1.htm|website=Kissan Kerala|publisher=Kissan Kerala|accessdate=11 September 2017}}</ref> |
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{| class="wikitable" |
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! Agro-climatic situations !! Seasons !! From(Period) !! To(Period) |
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|General||Virippu (I crop / autumn)||April-May||Sept-Oct |
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|General||Mundakan (II crop / winter)||Sept-Oct||Dec-Jan |
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|General||Puncha (III crop / summer)||Dec-Jan||March-April |
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|Onattukara||Virippu (I crop / autumn)||April||August |
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|Onattukara||Mundakan (II crop / winter)||Aug-Sept||Dec-Jan |
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|Kuttanad||Additional crop||May-June||Aug-Sept |
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|Kuttanad||Puncha||Oct-Nov||Feb-March |
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|Kole (single cropped area)||Mundakan (Kadumkrishi)||Aug-Sept||Dec-Jan |
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|Pokkali||Virippu (I crop / autumn)||May-June||Sept-Oct |
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|Pokkali||Oorumundakan||Aug-Sept||Dec-Jan |
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|Kaippad||Mundakan (II crop / winter)||Sept-Oct||Dec-Jan |
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|Kaippad||Puncha (III crop / summer)||Dec-Jan||March-April |
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|High ranges||Nancha||May-June||Oct-Nov |
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|High ranges||Puncha||Dec-Jan||April-May |
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As you see, there is no Harvest in Chingam. Could anyone re-check this claim and make necessary edit? Maybe ] ? |
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--] (]) 06:17, 11 September 2017 (UTC) |
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{{reflist-talk}} |
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{{od}} |
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Vvidyadh: No ] please. The Onam dates vary every year per the Malayali version of the Hindu calendar. Worldwide, the religious festivals linked to harvests typically do not coincide with the harvest date of each agro-climatic region. Sometimes it is observed weeks or months after, or once a year for the harvests previously. Misplaced Pages articles summarize what the WP:RS state. We can't ignore RS, can't do OR in wikipedia to create silly secular-scientific versions of traditional festivals. ] (]) 09:01, 11 September 2017 (UTC) |
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== Edit request == |
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{{edit semi-protected|answered=yes}} |
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In the section on ] there is the following sentence: |
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{{cquote|1=The festival has been declared as wrong and forbidden for Muslims (]) by Islamic preachers.<ref name="Osella2013p152">{{cite book |author1=Filippo Osella |author2=Caroline Osella |title=Islamic Reform in South Asia |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=7V6CBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA152 |year=2013 |publisher=Cambridge University Press |isbn=978-1-107-27667-3 |page=152}}</ref>}} |
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If you read the source, in the middle paragraph of page 152, there is no mention of "preachers" or "forbidden" or "Haram". The article is misleading and should be changed to: |
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{{cquote|1=Some Muslim reformists have called on Muslims to refrain from taking part in the festival.<ref name="Osella2013p152">{{cite book |author1=Filippo Osella |author2=Caroline Osella |title=Islamic Reform in South Asia |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=7V6CBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA152 |year=2013 |publisher=Cambridge University Press |isbn=978-1-107-27667-3 |page=152}}</ref>}} |
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{{reflist}} |
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Thank you. ] (]) 20:44, 25 August 2018 (UTC) |
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:] '''Done'''<!-- Template:ESp --> <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">] (] • ])</span> 19:23, 28 August 2018 (UTC) |
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There is no need for an article on ], this topic can be merged into the ] article and written as a section in the ] article. ] is a festival of ] Malayalees, the term "]s" in this title represents all Muslims, but only some Muslim leaders and organizations in ] have expressed their views on Onam ~~ ] (]) 11:57,19 August 2024 (UTC) |
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== Misleading introduction == |
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*'''Strongly Oppose'''. This article was created apparently because there was a lot of vandalism on the page ] because several people wanted to remove content that say Islam is against celebrating non-Muslims' celebrations including Onam.] and ]. The page ] is for an indefinite period because the topic is controversial. There has been vandalism on the article ] several times. The vandals were removing the word related to Hinduism to remove mentioning the association of Onam with Hindus and Hinduism (, , , , , , , , , , , , ). Such vandalism or disruptive edits were reverted by adding the term which shows the topic's association with Hindus and Hinduidm (, , , , , , , ). The section ] is a very ] one. Because we cannot write about AP and EK Sunnis only, there should be the description about all the groups. If merged, this ] will no longer be there. Even if there is a problem with the name it could be solved by moving it to ] or '''Onam and Kerala Muslims'''. In addition, merging it with ] is likely to make it more prone to vandalism (see: , , & in the section Onam and Islam). ] (]) 18:29, 19 August 2024 (UTC) |
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For the statement ''The festival commemorates the Vamana avatar of Vishnu,'' the citation used is . Interesting fact is those pages discuss the topic ] and nothing about Onam. So, in reality it's a deceptive ] for an unsourced OR. For the statement followed, ''...mythologies of Hinduism related to Kashyapa and Parashurama'', citations are: and , but neither of these sources discuss the claim. Pg.659 discuss Onam and Mahabali's backstory that merely mentions Kashyapa as his ancestor and nothing in book 2. |
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:] (in this article) there is a section ] which is written only one line. It can be merge to that section. There is no need for an article for Onam and Muslim. |
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While, what was completely as per given sources, pg.659 explicitly cites: ''{{font color|green|Onam, an ancient rice harvest festival, is now tied to the story of King Mahabali ... The time of Mahabali's rule in Kerala is remembered as a Golden age; hence, his annual return visit, the subject of the Onam festival, is a time for widespread celebration}}''. Book 2 cites: ''{{font color|green|Mythologically, it celebrates the annual recreation of the orderly kingdom ruled over by Mahabali}}''.] 07:12, 26 August 2018 (UTC) |
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:Why not write "Onam and Christian" and "Onam and Buddhism" like this?? |
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:Majority of the Muslims in Kerala celebrate Onam, Onam is a public festival of Kerala and this type of article is controversial, only a few Muslim leaders have commented on Onam, there is no need for an article. ] (]) 07:45, 20 August 2024 (UTC) |
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::According to source, the majority of Kerala are Hindus. Whether it is controversial or not is not a criterion to merge or delete. The Muslim leaders who opposed the Onam celebration by Muslims represent the vast majority of Kerala Muslims. The reason why there are no writings on "Onam and Christians" must be because there are no enough number of reliable sources for that. Buddhists are extreme minority in Kerala. It seems only Muslims do not participate in the Onam celebration; that too due to religious reasons. ] (]) 19:49, 20 August 2024 (UTC) |
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: there are 37 citations in ] whereas in ] there are 64 citations. So, if merged, more than half of the number of citations (57.81%) will be solely of a section. |
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:If we google "ഓണം ക്രിസ്തുമതത്തിൽ", which means "Onam in Christianity", we see few sources that talk about "Onam and Christianity". On the other hand, if we google "ഓണം ഇസ്ലാമിൽ", which means "Onam in Islam", several sources appear. The same is case with YouTube. ] (]) 19:20, 21 August 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Strongly Agree''' This article about hate speeches by some Islamic preachers on 'not to celebrate onam'. You can see many such hate videos and news reports on 'not to celebrate Christmas' . why should wikipedia have with an artcile on this? Also note that this is not about any cultural / celebration of muslims with nam but merely on some hate speeches by few Islamic scholars on 'not to celebrate onam'. According to islam celebrating other religious celebrations is not allowed and will get one into hell. It is a general rule in Islam and not specific to Onam. Nonsense article should have to be merged or deleted. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 17:52, 23 August 2024 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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*:Unlike Christmas and other non-Muslim religious festivals, Onam is widely said to be celebrated by followers of all religions, including Muslims, though according to the overwhelming majority of Muslims in Kerala, Islam is against celebrating Onam. Besides, the Onam celebration by Muslims is widely criticised by Islamic scholars. So, a writing on this is '''necessary'''. The proposed merger might reduce the amount of the content taken to ] from the article ], and thus, not satisfying the curiousity of the readers to know the all and clear Islamic rulings on the issue. This is because several people ] seem to think almost all Muslims or Islam is not against the Onam celebration by Muslims. This is understandable as the following sources say the Muslims celebrate Onam: Google search results for "Onam and Islam", , , , , , , . In conclusion, Onam is not like other non-Muslim religious festivals such as Christmas. Thus, a clarification is needed for Onam specially. So, I contradict your argument of "general rule". ] (]) 00:57, 29 August 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Support''': Per nom. <span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px black;font-family: 'Comic Sans MS';">''']''' ]</span> 19:40, 27 August 2024 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 27 August 2018 == |
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*'''Support''' for reasons articulated by ] and ]. This article as constructed appears to be an unnecessary ]. ] (]) 17:33, 10 September 2024 (UTC) |
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*:But, as of now, I, Neutralhappy, have not given any reason for the merger; rather, I have given reasons not to merge. ] (]) 09:10, 11 September 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Support''' Its essentially a duplicate article with some additions that can easily fit here. Agree with nominator. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px black; font-family:Papyrus">]<sup>]</sup></span>''' 10:22, 13 September 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Support'''. The meaningful part of the Onam and Muslims article consists of a single paragraph in the last section that is easy to merge into Onam article. The rest of the Onam and Muslims article described Muslims in general, totally ] here. --] (]) 07:01, 15 September 2024 (UTC) |
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*:Your opinion that only the last section is meanigful is not correct since the rest gives a meaningful and clear Islamic view about participating in non-Muslim religious celebrations. Your use of ] is not relevant here, since ] deals with representing different viewpoints, based on their prevalence. ] states the following: {{talkquote|Misplaced Pages should not present a dispute as if a view held by a small minority is as significant as the majority view.}} So, we cannot merge only a particular section with the Onam article so that it appears the majority of Muslims are of the opinion that the Onam celebration is permissible. ] (]) 09:08, 15 September 2024 (UTC) |
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*::(1) As an example, the section "Muslim groups in Kerala" does not mention Onam at all, so it appears to be completely off-topic. (2) If a minority of Muslims agree with X, there is no issue to state just that. An explicit use of the word "minority" will avoid the problem that you have mentioned (''it appears the majority of Muslims...''). ] (]) 06:06, 16 September 2024 (UTC) |
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*::See this . ] (]) 15:20, 16 September 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' This is a long-term issue and there is enough content to warrant separate article. ] (]) 03:12, 16 September 2024 (UTC) |
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*:A very large part of content (about 800 words out of 1200 or so total) does not appear to be directly related to the topic at all and discusses non-Onam-related issues (like Muslim denominations in Kerala). Once this padding is discounted, the short remaining text does not seem to warrant an article. ] (]) 06:14, 16 September 2024 (UTC) |
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*::There are different organisations in Kerala. Writing their opinion on the permissibility of celebrating Onam, in Islam, by '''mixing their views''', without a header for each organisation, is not only difficult but also makes it less reliable about the Islamic view of celebrating Onam, since attributing the view becomes difficult. Hence, different sections for each organisation. To avoid the possible doubt whether the article ] has presented the overall view of Islamic organisations in Kerala or the view of the majority of Muslims in Kerala, the section "Islamic groupings in Kerala" is also needed. The section "Islamic groupings in Kerala" also serves as one that introduces who are "AP Sunnis" and "EK Sunnis", which is also needed. This is also understandable from . Now, whenever sources about the view of the remaining Islamic groups in Kerala or elsewhere about celebrating Onam become available, their view can also be added under respective new sections. In short, without the section "Islamic grouping in Kerala", the article might give the impression that the article presents the views on the permissibility of Onam in Islam selectively, while also not considering the due weight. ] (]) 15:19, 16 September 2024 (UTC) |
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*:::Applying ] to the subject "Onam and Muslims" requires as a minimum using ] that deal with <u>both</u> Onam and Muslims. In particular, general descriptions of Muslim organizations make little sense, ''unless the source mentions these structures <u>in connection with Onam</u>''. It is even worse with religious leaders: unless they <u>explicitly</u> mention Onam, we should not write about them in this article, as this would associate them with a controversial subject without any RS to verify this connection in a gross violation of ]. ] (]) 21:46, 16 September 2024 (UTC) |
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{{archive bottom}} |
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== Satanic == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Onam|answered=yes}} |
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Wicked attempt to hijack Onam by changing it from a cultural festival of malayalees to a "Religious" festival by removing significance of King Mahabali. |
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The edit history below, clearly shows the difference made by organised attack groups: |
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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Onam&diff=856583441&oldid=799922790 ] (]) 01:01, 27 August 2018 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a ] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> —<span style="color:#808080">]</span><sup><span style="color:#008080">]</span></sup> 17:53, 29 August 2018 (UTC) |
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As other false religions, it is of the devil ] (]) 16:15, 26 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:The statement 'As other false religions, it is of the devil' is not appropriate for an encyclopedia article. Misplaced Pages strives to maintain neutrality and objectivity in its content. Onam is a Hindu festival celebrated primarily in Kerala, India, with deep religious and historical significance. It is recognized as a symbol of cultural unity. Personal opinions or judgments about religions do not align with Misplaced Pages's standards for neutrality. ] (]) 19:35, 4 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== ] festival == |
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{{moved from|User talk:DBigXray}} |
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BJP-RSS propaganda in ] article to make it more ] than secular and to alter its myth by diminishing the importance of ] over ]. ] is restoring problematic content by ] without discussion. Onam is celebrated all over Kerala irrespective of religion. ] (]) 06:18, 26 December 2019 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 4 December 2024 == |
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:I would agree, I have reverted some of the problematic content, Waiting to hear back from MSW. --''<span style="text-shadow:0px 0px .5em LightSkyBlue;">]]</span>'' 08:52, 26 December 2019 (UTC) |
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{{Edit semi-protected|Onam|answered=yes}} |
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::Please read the cited sources. We need to reflect what the secondary and tertiary reliable sources are stating. Many of these cites, already have embedded quotes. In light of these sources, please explain any mass reverts you make. ] (]) 01:10, 29 December 2019 (UTC) |
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Change "Malayalis" to "Hindu Malayalis" in the 'Observed by' column. ] (]) 19:28, 4 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{not done}}:<!-- Template:ESp --> no reason given for the proposed change. ] (]) 00:36, 6 December 2024 (UTC) |
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Not done: no reason given for the proposed change. M.Bitton (talk) 00:36, 6 December 2024 (UTC)