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Revision as of 18:48, 13 December 2006 editPiotrus (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Event coordinators, Extended confirmed users, File movers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers286,208 edits →Disputed Paragraph ← Previous edit		Latest revision as of 03:25, 27 April 2024 edit undoClueBot III (talk \| contribs)Bots1,380,490 editsm Archiving 1 discussion to Talk:Home Army/Archive 7. (BOT)
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			The Arbitration Committee advises that administrators may impose "reliable-source consensus required" as a discretionary sanction on all articles on the topic of Polish history during World War II (1933-45), including the Holocaust in Poland. On articles where "reliable-source consensus required" is in effect, when a source that is not a high quality source (an article in a peer-reviewed scholarly journals, an academically focused book by a reputable publisher, and/or an article published by a reputable institution) is added and subsequently challenged by reversion, no editor may reinstate the source without first obtaining consensus on the talk page of the article in question or consensus about the reliability of the source in a discussion at the ].{{pb}}
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			\|action1=PR
			\|action1date=22:29, 14 June 2006
			\|action1link=Misplaced Pages:Peer review/Armia Krajowa/archive1
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	{{Archive box\|box-width=10em\|image-width=35px\|]}}
			\|action2date=08:42, 20 June 2006
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	== Fork ? ==
			\|action3date=17:05, 27 December 2006
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	I think the Lithuanian aspects should be forked into a separate article. Something like "]" maybe ? --]<sup>]</sup> 07:03, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
			\|action4date=19 March 2008
			\|action4link=Talk:Armia Krajowa#GA Sweeps (on hold)
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	== ] ==
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	''(Part copied from archive)''
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	Mediator: ]. Involved Parties: ], ], ], ], ''<font color="#901">//</font>'']]
			\|action6date=21 October 2020 (UTC)
			\|action6link=Misplaced Pages:Good article reassessment/Home Army/1
			\|action6result=delisted
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	Would any other involved parties add their name to the list. Thanks, ] 12:09, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
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			== March 2023 edit ==

			Preserving here by providing . My rationale was: "book review by a non-expert is not a suitable source; see: ]." -- ] (]) 08:12, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

			== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 March 2023 ==

			{{Edit extended-protected\|Home Army\|answered=yes}}
	=== Disputed Paragraph ===
			please change "Polish red-and-white flag" to "Polish white-and-red flag" under the actual picture of the flag. There is a difference. Thanks. ] (]) 23:02, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
			:] '''Question:'''<!-- Template:EEp --> What is the difference? ] (]) 10:03, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
			:] '''Not done for now:'''<!-- Template:EEp --> As far as I know, there's no ] guidance on this, and the current version reads more smoothly to me. Let me know if I'm missing something! ] (]) 10:10, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

			== The poster "Poles to arms!" used in the article is from PKWN (Polish Committee of National Liberation - Polski Komitet Wyzwolenia Narodowego), not from Ak (Home Army); PKWN was Soviet-backed communists executive governing authority, functioning in opposition to the London-based Home Army ==
	Could we discuss the folowing disputed paragraph:
	:"Relations between Lithuanians and Poles were strained during most of the ] due to conflicts over the ] and ], areas whose population was a mixture of Poles and Lithuanians. Germans relocated Lithuanian families to Vilnius region from Western parts of Lithuania by force, and this complicated situation. During the war these conflicts resulted in thousands of deaths, as groups on both sides used the opportunities offered by the war to commit violent acts against those they perceived as enemies."
	] 11:33, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

			The title on the bottom of the poster says literally "Polski Komitet Wyzwolenia Narodowego".
	:I have taken the liberty to move this section up to the main medcab section, where we have been discussing this para anyway. As this para is disputed by Sigitas, I think we all will appreciate his reply to why he persists in deleting most of this paragraph; as I think no other editor finds it objectionable.--<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]\|]</span></sub> 15:37, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

			https://en.wikipedia.org/Polish_Committee_of_National_Liberation
	::Thanks, do you know if there's a reference specifically for this paragraph? ] 15:43, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
	:::Don't appear to be there ATM, but I think that the first and third sentences are rather NPOV and semi-obvious, and can be easily referenced with some of our existing refs. The middle sentence about German relocation of L. families should have its own inline citation; plus we may want to note that Poles were deported from Vilnius by the Soviets (, . etc.), further changing the population balance and antagonizing the Polish population. PS. Adhoc, since you said you have recently begun to read about those issues, you may want to see our well referenced article on ] for some relevant information.--<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]\|]</span></sub> 16:05, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

			The eagle on the banner does not have a crown and was used in Polish People's Army, not in the AK
	::I'm not sure if the "thousands of deaths" should not be referenced as well. While obvious to me, this may be not so clear for every reader. --]<sup>]</sup> 16:11, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

			https://pl.wikipedia.org/Orze%C5%82_wojskowy_wz._43
	Second sentence is supported by Rimantas Zizas. Armijos Krajovos veikla Lietuvoje 1942-1944 metais (Acitivies of Armia Krajowa in Lithuania in 1942-1944). Armija Krajova Lietuvoje, pp. 14-39. A. Bubnys, K. Garšva, E. Gečiauskas, J. Lebionka, J. Saudargienė, R. Zizas (editors). Vilnius – Kaunas, 1995. This paragraph is OK. ] 13:23, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

			Home Army was always using eagles with crowns, proof:
	:Thanks! ] 13:25, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

			https://pl.wikipedia.org/Plik:Band_of_Polish_Home_Army_(Armia_Krajowa).PNG
	After some thinking I have reservations regarding the "thousands of deaths". AK probably killed 4000 locals in "ethnic Lithuanian lands" but many of victims were Belarussians, Jews and Poles. Thousands of Poles would be killed by Germans with or without Lithuanian administration in place. Sonderkommando Ypatingasis burys in Paneriai were killing people not because they "took the opportunities offered by the war to commit crimes" but because they were forced to. ] 09:47, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
			https://pl.wikipedia.org/Plik:Zniwiarz1.jpg
	::Well, what about the villages burned by Plechavicius men? They weren't forced to kill and murder Poles? ] 11:11, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
			https://pl.wikipedia.org/Plik:Orzel_AK.jpg
	::: You should evaluate these data carefully. I know for sure that at least some of the villages burned by Territorial Defence Force were simply invented by Polish propagandists, for example killings in Grauziskes, when Territorial Defence Force didn't even reach this place before being destroyed by AK. ] 15:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
	:::: I've never heard about killings in Graużyszki, as indeed, Plechaviczius men were defeated earlier; however, In Sienkowszczyna (quite near Grauzyszki) Plechaviczius men were burning houses and killing people - probably that's why they were so easily defeated, since AK attacked while the butchers were busy with shooting the civilians. As for Burys being forced to kill Poles, well, they were all volunteers; ] 07:00, 27 September 2006 (UTC) EDIT: plus Pawłów, Adamowszczyzna, Tołminów
	::::: Witnesses say they there ambushed marching by AK, which probably was tipped by Germans. I don't know much about these events though. Burys' members volunteered to assist germans initially, but not to kill people in paneriai. Most of them only were aknowledged of their role in killings after arrival to Paneriai and had no option to say "no" (Arūnas Bubnys (2004). Vokiečių ir lietuvių saugumo policija (1941–1944) (German and Lithuanian security police: 1941-1944). Vilnius: Lietuvos gyventojų genocido ir rezistencijos tyrimo centras. Retrieved on 2006-06-09.) ] 10:24, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
	::::::This is sad, but the same could be probably said of many Germans who did not go to army to murder civilians but then had no choice. I think the times were difficult and we're really often too easily assigning blame. On the other hand thousands of people were murdered in Paneriai and this also requires some justice and we cannot pretend that nobody killed them. --]<sup>]</sup> 11:12, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
	::::::: Yes, it can indeed be said about many people involved in war. We cannot say "used the opportunities offered by the war to commit violent acts against those they perceived as enemies" as this wording would mean voluntary and enthuasiastic participation in killings, when in fact Burys' people volunteered for escorting Jews to Ghettos, not for killings in Paneriai. ] 12:49, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
	:Exactly what I meant. The "thousands of deaths" seems to be an oversimplification of the rather complex situation and may easily lead to misinterpretations. I'm not sure how to rephrase it in a NPOV, yet meaningful way, however. Maybe just remove this sentence from the lead ? --]<sup>]</sup> 10:25, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

			Please move this poster to the page https://en.wikipedia.org/Polish_Committee_of_National_Liberation and remove it from that one with Home Army ] (]) 15:28, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
	I just wondering is this case is over? ] 09:17, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

			:@] Removed from here. You should be able to add it yourself to to the other article, no? <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]\|]</sub> 16:13, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
	So, how about it? ] 10:32, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

			== "earlier Związek Walki Zbrojnej (Armed Resistance) " ==
	What about it? The article is stable, consensus has been reached, as it appears.--<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]\|]</span></sub> 17:18, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

			It's Armed Resistance UNION (Związek). ] (]) 11:46, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
	:Agree with the assessment of Piotrus, sorry for not replying earlier - I took the article off my watchlist. ] 16:46, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
	::You are very quick. Thank you. Still I would like to ask some questions, Addhoc. Particular contributor Piotrus in one of the articles demonstrated examples of weasel words . looking in the light of this, I would like about this particular sentence in the article of AK: ''the '''nationalist''' and '''extremist''' Lithuanian Vilnija organization claims that''. Please observe the ref of ''nationalist'' 11 is Polish Gazeta Wyborcza, while ''extremist'' also link to Gazeta Wyborcza also. According to Piotrus (evidence provided above) these particular words should be referenced in English. And second note near the word extremist contributor also placed and this EN source From this ref it does not clear is Vilnija is the same as mentioned in this article, or it is another organization (or association !), that context in this article and in provided ref. Some my question - is this EN source is credible in this context, which speaks about AK, not about 20-21st. politics and relations plus is this the same Vilnija? ] 17:25, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
	:::''According to Piotrus (evidence provided above)'' - please be more specific in your attributions, I don't recall saying anything that those refs are invalid.--<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]\|]</span></sub> 18:48, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

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March 2023 edit

Preserving here by providing this link. My rationale was: "book review by a non-expert is not a suitable source; see: Talk:Tadeusz Piotrowski (sociologist)#Citation to Judith Olsak-Glass, Sarmatian Review." -- K.e.coffman (talk) 08:12, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 March 2023

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

please change "Polish red-and-white flag" to "Polish white-and-red flag" under the actual picture of the flag. There is a difference. Thanks. Tulip an (talk) 23:02, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Question: What is the difference? Lightoil (talk) 10:03, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Not done for now: As far as I know, there's no WP:MOS guidance on this, and the current version reads more smoothly to me. Let me know if I'm missing something! Actualcpscm (talk) 10:10, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

The poster "Poles to arms!" used in the article is from PKWN (Polish Committee of National Liberation - Polski Komitet Wyzwolenia Narodowego), not from Ak (Home Army); PKWN was Soviet-backed communists executive governing authority, functioning in opposition to the London-based Home Army

The title on the bottom of the poster says literally "Polski Komitet Wyzwolenia Narodowego".

https://en.wikipedia.org/Polish_Committee_of_National_Liberation

The eagle on the banner does not have a crown and was used in Polish People's Army, not in the AK

https://pl.wikipedia.org/Orze%C5%82_wojskowy_wz._43

Home Army was always using eagles with crowns, proof:

https://pl.wikipedia.org/Plik:Band_of_Polish_Home_Army_(Armia_Krajowa).PNG https://pl.wikipedia.org/Plik:Zniwiarz1.jpg https://pl.wikipedia.org/Plik:Orzel_AK.jpg

Please move this poster to the page https://en.wikipedia.org/Polish_Committee_of_National_Liberation and remove it from that one with Home Army RebeKacz (talk) 15:28, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

@RebeKacz Removed from here. You should be able to add it yourself to to the other article, no? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 16:13, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

"earlier Związek Walki Zbrojnej (Armed Resistance) "

It's Armed Resistance UNION (Związek). 5.173.50.171 (talk) 11:46, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

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