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==Open tasks==
<noinclude>{{Centralized discussion|float=left|compact=very}}
{{Administrators' noticeboard archives}}
{{Clear}}
{{Admin tasks}}
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== Sander.v.Ginkel unblock request ==


The following is copied from ] on behalf of {{u|Sander.v.Ginkel}}:
{{tqb|I have made serious mistakes. I regret it and say sorry for it. I fully understand why I have been blocked. My biggest mistake that I copied-pasted content from articles to other articles, that led to a BLP violation. I have also misused other accounts as suckpuppets: ] and ] (note that the two other accounts –- ] and ] -- at ] was not me. ) In addition, my work was too focused on quantity, rather than quality. I apologize to those who had to do some cleaning up for me.


Whay do I want to come back? And do I deserve it? I can show that I can make constructive content. I made some edits and created pages under the IP address 82.174.61.58, that was not allowed; and was blocked. It is not good that I made edits under an IP address, but I appreciated that some users (], ], ]) stated they liked the content I created and/or that they offer the opportunity to have me back (see at ]). I made the same mistakes on the Dutch Misplaced Pages (where I misused the same accounts). At this Misplaced Pages I bot back my account and I am editing the Wikipeida I’m also editing at simple.wikipedia.org (see ]). I have created over 900 pages (see ]), (1 page being deleted). I like to create articles from historic work on old sources, for instance ], ], ], ] or the event ] that is barely mentioned at the English ]. Around 100 pages have been (literally) copied to the English Misplaced Pages by several users. I'm also editing Wikidata, see ] and ].
== ] ==

{{user|Dudedontworry}} is creating a large number of articles about pianists, originally copyvios which have been deleted and replaced by one-paragraph stubs which rarely claim notability, and then don't prove it. No reliable sources are cited. All seem to have been the former students of ], who might be notable if there were reliable sources who said so. I think that without reliable sources, most of these articles need to be removed. Opinions? ]|] 20:13, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Anybody? If this isn't addressed, I'm just going to start speedying all of these articles. ]|] 22:15, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
: He's down to one-''sentence'' stubs. At least he quit posting copyvios.... I can't tell whether he's a well-meaning but confused fan, or whether he's involved with publicity for this group of musicians. Sigh. ] 18:07, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

''' Uh...'''

Just a guess, but ] and ] and ] and ] and ] and ] and ] and ] and ] and ] and ] and ] probably should be deleted.

''' I am a reliable source '''

Grow up Zoe. I am an academic researcher. My sources are excellent, in that they come directly from the musicians. I am the source. All information is researched by me. If you think that information can only be reliable, if it has been published elsewhere than on wikipedia, then you are insane. If that were true, then original advice a qualified lawyer provides on law would be regarded as no good, simply because he hasn't published his knowledge in a book somewhere other than wikipedia first. Equally, your attitude would also regard all previously unpublished research on AIDS/HIV as no good, simply because it hasn't yet been published by other publishers. That attitude is lunacy. Facts are facts. Research is Research, even if it is to date unpublished, my research is still valid and reliable. Misplaced Pages will never get anywhere if you continue to harass individuals, just because they know something that YOU do not.

] 05:24, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Zoe"

''' Contributing to Misplaced Pages is Futile '''

In contrast to Misplaced Pages, regular publishers are happy to publish original contributions or research, and it is also normal to be allowed to quote other sources already in existence. Given that Misplaced Pages neither appears happy to publish original research, nor information quoted (and referenced/sourced) from elsewhere, and the extraordinary negativity of many of its administrators, who appear to enjoy berating contributing individuals for their contributions to Misplaced Pages, and yet also appear to assume that it is my full time activity, when in fact I am busy with my own 'real' life of academic research, and only contribute as and when time allows, the conclusion that contributing to Misplaced Pages is a futile exercise, looms large. If this is how Misplaced Pages wishes to treat contributors, then Misplaced Pages's future is in doubt. I for one am appalled at User/Zoe's attitude towards my contributions, and feel deeply offended by User/Zoe's threats to block me from contributing/editing, it is not I who vandalises, it is User/Zoe (et al) who came along and vandalised many hours of my efforts to contribute in many fell swoops, repeatedly. It appears some are quick to criticise, and eager to delete the work of others, with scant regard for the time and effort that was freely given. If this continues, I will delete everything I have contributed myself, and publish elsewhere with publishers who respect the fact I am a reliable source, and where there is commercial remuneration for my work.

] 05:23, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Laughing_Man"

:If we didn't have rules about original research, Misplaced Pages would be full of all sorts of nonsense. We are an encyclopedia, not a publisher of original content. It is not our task to verify what is notable and what is accurate from contributors of original research. If you want to contribute here, follow the policies that have developed over time for good reasons. All of us, including admins have to follow those same policies. You are invited to contribute here, but sorry, you can't do so under your own set of rules. Cheers, ] 05:44, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

{{tl|db-author}}

] 16:20, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Laughing Man: thank you for your assistance (please ensure all my contributions are deleted, and my user accoung/page)

Laughing Man is only person at Misplaced Pages who seems to talk any sense. I thank him for his suggestions and aid. I would be grateful if you could ensure (as you know I am trying to do) that all articles that I wrote and contributed, are deleted from Misplaced Pages, and that my user account is also deleted. Misplaced Pages's contribution rules are just too lunatic, for an academic researcher such as myself, who is used to being able to publish his findings. I am used to having my original academic research papers received with gratitude, warmth and delight.

I am not used to a publisher suggesting that I am not a reliable source. It appears that User:Zoe does not understand the concept of original research being reliable, and if User:Zoe were in charge of all the publishers in the world, humanity's recorded knowledge would never have accumulated, as User:Zoe wouldn't even accept the first caveman to discover how to make fire as a reliable source, never mind a Phd Academic Researcher's reliablity as a source of original research.

It is therefore serendipitous that professional publishers do understand that an academic researcher such as myself is a very reliable source. Adieu.

This page may meet Misplaced Pages’s criteria for speedy deletion. The given reason is: This page was mistakenly created, no one other than its original author has made substantial edits, and he or she requests its deletion or has blanked the page. (CSD G7).
If this page does not meet the criteria for speedy deletion, please remove this notice.
Administrators, remember to check what links here, the page history (last edit), the page log, and any revisions of CSD before deletion.

Dudedontworry 16:36, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Laughing_Man"

::may want to look at ]--] 16:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::''"I am used to having my original academic research papers received with gratitude, warmth and delight."'' What academic institution are YOU working at? :) ] <sup><small><font color="DarkBlue">]</font></small></sup> 17:02, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

We are an encyclopedia, not an academic journal. Journals publish original research, encyclopedias don't. It's that simple. See ]. —] <font color="#C46100" size="1">]</font> 17:07, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

::Also ]--] 17:09, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

:I have '''''repeatedly''''' pointed Dudedontworry to our guidelines at ] and ], but he has either steadfastly failed to read them, or has decided they don't apply to him. I think he's been given enough time to create content the same as everybody else on Misplaced Pages, and if he feels above us, I am sure there are other places that are more than willing to take anything people claim without documentation. MySpace comes to mind. ]|] 23:55, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

== Giano on the radio! ==

I have been contacted by a producer with a public radio show called Weekend America. Who is looking into a story about the ArbCom elections and was wondering if I might have a few minutes to talk about my experience in Misplaced Pages. Tempted and amusing as that might be, I have strong feelings on blabbing to the media and those that do it, but does Misplaced Pages have a policy on this? I'm sure I am not the only obe to be singled out ] 07:14, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

:I don't know whether Misplaced Pages has a policy already, but I don't see the harm in it and I think that openness can only benefit us. If there's media interest in the ArbCom elections, the best course of action is to be honest and forthcoming, and do what we can to ensure that the coverage is fair. Clamming up makes it more likely that it won't be. —] <small>(] • ])</small> 07:30, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
::Curious. Giano, did the producer explain how they came to select you? {{User:Netscott/s1.js}} 07:34, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Yeah, why not me? I actually LISTEN to the show! In any case, go for it. --] | ] 08:08, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Since we have some suffrage for the arbcom voting, I do not see the problem. I would be worried if an AfD or RfA advertised in the big media ] 08:18, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

:I've no idea why they chose me, cos I'm more horrible than you I expect! Is it real station then, I though it may be a hoax? Anyhow, I have enough experience of these things to know than a "nice happy story is no story" They want my "experience of Misplaced Pages" but I expect it will be all about Kelly Martin's arbcom result and behaviour etc, and the "Giano case" Neither of which are Misplaced Pages's finest moments. They are hardly going to want to discuss Palladian architecture are they? (Which is what I like talking about) No I shall leave it to others - interesting to see who though! Anyway they want me to phone them, and I'm certainly not spending megabucks on transatlantic phone calls. You lot would never understand my vowels anyway. I'll forward their email to Jimbo and he can tell them how marvellous the place is - especially the architecture section etc etc etc. ] 08:51, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Tell them to phone "the co-founder, Jimmy Wales". That should give them a story... ] 08:54, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

*{{userlinks|Neille i}} has been asking arbcom candidates on-wiki to beinterviewed. ''']''' (]) 09:02, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Well, I'm not an arbcom candidate - heaven forbid, so I can't immagine what they want to know ] 09:06, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

*I have no qualms about giving interviews to the media. See for example , I was picked because of I believe. Sure, go for it, and be honest in your answers. :-) ] ] 10:52, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
:::That is hilarious! Jimbo recreated it two minutes later, with a rather endearing edit summary: . Are you saying doing the interview was a form of punishment? :-) ] 13:14, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
::::That had me laughing out loud for a moment :-) --User:Ceyockey (<small>'']''</small>) 22:57, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

::It '''is''' a real radio show, at least. If the story comes off it will probably be available on podcast, too. . ] 12:31, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
:::The only concern is whether you know the questions in advance or not. and that's why i am bringing this concern here. There may be tricky questions waiting for you Giano. Is it possible to check if you can get those questions in advance? -- '']'' ] <small>]</small> 12:39, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Giano, I say go for it, I'm sure they'll call you for the actual interview. And yes, tell them about the architecture and how the articles are getting written. If they try to focus on the drama, just tell them that Misplaced Pages's internals being more transparent than their company's doesn't mean that we have to discuss our dirty laundry with outside players any more than they do. ] | ] 16:20, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
::::*No, They would almost certainly want the drama, not the architecture. I shall not be commenting. Eeverything I do is above board and onwiki, that way others have their chance to comment legitimately and a right of redress. It is not my style to talk about others only when I know I am safe from reproach. If asked about certain subjects I would have a problem maintaining my usual kind disposition especially as the "IRCadmin" gang are now travelling on tour in a charabang hectoring voters at . I'm not sure why they are called "elections". On Misplaced Pages they always seem more akin to those in dodgy countries, where one cast one's vote at one's peril. ] 08:47, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

''I would have a problem maintaining my usual kind disposition especially as the "IRCadmin" gang are now travelling on tour in a charabang hectoring voters'' ... ah, classic Giano. It never gets old. Never. --] 21:04, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::*No, and it never will so long as we have ''"] and ]"'' to point out the error of out votes and ways. ] 08:27, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

== Username issue? ==

] posted a comment on a user's page purporting to be from "tech support." The user, ], seems to be having some attack issues on his page, too. (well to be honest, I've got *no* idea what's going on there, so someone may want to investigate further.) ] <small>]</small> 23:23, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
:That's fascinating. I believe ] and ] are sockpuppets (or perhaps meatpuppets) of ], who was harassing ] by replacing his userpage with different pictures of animals. Somehow, ] is mixed up with all this, too. I'd suggest a short-term block on all except Jjohnson, but I'm not sure. I see that ] has been indefblocked for a bad username, which is appropriate. ''']''' <small>]</small> 23:36, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
::I have idefblocked ] - this is a single purpose attack acount. ] 23:58, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
:::and ] and ] for 48h ] 00:00, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:Someone's back as ]. And now I'm not so sure that ] is an entirely innocent victim in all this. ''']''' <small>]</small> 20:42, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

==Class assignment to edit Misplaced Pages==
Just wanted to give a heads up about . A friend of mine considering taking the class brought it to my attention. The assignment is for everyone in the class to make an edit and then to write a paper about it. Incidentally, the teacher suggests people edit ], an article I created, so I will of course be keeping an eye out for it but it may be nice to have a few extra pairs of eyes on it just in case someone decides to make an "unhelpful" edit, or even give a few friendly tips to new contributors. ] 10:57, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

:Well, at least they're not being told to write an article on the school (in true press-release style), which is what usually happens. ] 11:03, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::Unfortunately it doesn't tell people not to create vanity articles. ] 11:47, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it could have linked to ], but I still think the overall net effect of this will be positive rather than negative. Who in the hell would vandalize Misplaced Pages and write a paper about it? Sounds like a guaranteed F. --] 20:58, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:If they would summarize the what they felt was hard, etc., and send it to us, it might be even more helpful. ] 21:05, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

* Well, this isn't the first time something like this has happened. ] has all the gory details... ]]<sup>(])</sup> 21:08, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
* The assignment looked to me to be pretty positive. Emphasis on making a contribution, fixing something up, that sort of thing. Plus you get marks for it, so there's an incentive to do a really good job. It gives examples of the kinds of things, and tells them to look around first. Where's the problem? They get more background before editing than the average newbie, I'd say. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 21:42, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:*Yes, I expect it in general to be good edits. However I can forsee people adding people to the list that aren't notable enough, unsourced redlinks, etc. that will have to be reverted not as vandalism but simply as stuff we can't accept as is. I don't anticipate much if any vandalism, but it's still helpful to be aware of this, even if only to give welcoming messages to all the people. ] 01:01, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

::I just hope '''Read the policies''' is amongst the homework. ]<small> <sup>(Need help? ])</sup></small> 01:03, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::If you follow the first link, it will take you to the actual homework assignemnt. I agree with Cyde, this looks like a well organized assignement. Let's add it to the list of known school projects and move on. ]\<sup>]</sup> 02:16, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:Well, it is interesting to note that , who is probably non-notable, has ]. ] <sup>]</sup> 01:10, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

::Nearly all of the contributions to ] were made by Mr. Budd himself as an IP user. {{user|128.193.38.234}} - the IP resolves to '''budd'''.eecs.oregonstate.edu <span style="color: #F06A0F">&ndash;</span><small><span style="border: 1px solid #F06A0F">]]</span></small> 01:33, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::I'm deleting it. An associate professor is rarely notable due to lack of published research and peer reviewed works. Article definitely assert any major notability. ''']''' ]|] 04:47, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
::::], admittedly a proposed guideline, says that a professor is notable if they've written a textbook that has been used in a college-level course not related to the professor. The guy's written several textbooks, at least one of which I can confirm has been used at my university, unrelated to him. He's also published several journal articles. He may be a borderline case for notability, but deleting it out of hand I think is a bit premature. It should go to AfD at least. <span style="color: #F06A0F">&ndash;</span><small><span style="border: 1px solid #F06A0F">]]</span></small> 06:00, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Why the out-of-process deletion? What was so urgent it couldn't be listed on AfD? —]&nbsp;<sup>]</sup> 06:08, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
::::Why "out-of-process"? Non-notable biographies are speedy deleted on a regular basis. Have you read ]? ]|] 16:36, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::Have ''you''? "If the assertion is controversial or there has been a previous AfD, the article should be nominated for AfD instead." Agree that the deletion was unnecessary at this point and AFD would be better. &ndash; ]] 16:38, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
::::Just restore and AfD it, it can't hurt, though it very well may be deleted anyway. ] <sup>]</sup> 20:23, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::Agree with restore and AfD, notability was claimed and shouldn't have been speedied. ] 21:54, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
::::::The assertion wasn't controversial until Doug Bell made it such, and there was no previous AfD. How does it therefore fail to be a speedy deletion? ]|] 23:59, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::::Because the article '''did''' assert the importance or significance of its subject by saying he was the author of several college textbooks. Unless you don't think being the author of several textbooks is a claim to notability? ] 01:53, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
::::::::Not really. If there had been some indication as to how many of the books have been purchased or how wide-spread they have been used, then that could have been judged as to notability. If they're only used in courses he teaches, then it's little more than self-publishing, and anybody who gets their books published at a vanity press then couldn't be speedied. ]|] 02:59, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

::Technically true, the idea to delete it was good, but it should go through AfD if it make's a claim of notability. ]<small> <sup>(Need help? ])</sup></small> 02:05, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

== Spam surveys on talk pages ==

*{{vandal|Sharlene Thompson}} Spamming surveys on talk pages, 16+ so far..

Example:

::Health Wiki Research
::A colleague and I are conducting a study on health wikis. We are looking at how wikis co-construct health information and create communities. We noticed that you are a frequent contributor to Misplaced Pages on health topics.
::Please consider taking our survey .
::This research will help wikipedia and other wikis understand how health information is co-created and used.
::We are from James Madison University in Harrisonburg, Virginia. The project was approved by our university research committee and members of the Misplaced Pages Foundation.
::Thanks,
::--] 19:41, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

thanks, --] 20:07, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

:Someone should give her a phone call (number on link provided) and find out if it's legit... ---] <sup>(]/])</sup> 20:32, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::In particular, we should ask what members of the Foundation approved and then confirm. If it was explicitly approved by the Foundation, I personally have no problem with it. —] <font color="#C46100" size="1">]</font> 20:34, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

:::OTRS ticket #2006073110013565 - Corey A. Hickerson, an assistant professor with JMU, wrote asking if he and Sharlene Thompson could conduct this research, and a member of the Communications Committee approved their request. ] 20:39, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

::::Ummm ok then. ---] <sup>(]/])</sup> 21:10, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

:::::Sorry for the unwanted messages. I've made a request to the OTRS thread for a review of messages left on user_talk pages. Raul654, who on the Communications Committee approved it? -- ], 2006-12-15]11:36

::::::I thought you did - at least, that's the impression I got from your first email to them (''We would welcome such research. It may be best to conduct phase two on the users' talk pages instead of the article talk pages, tho placing invitations to participate on the article talk pages would be fine - maybe linking to your or Sharlene's user pages where more indepth information could be posted.'') I guess I just assumed if you were on OTRS you were a member of the comcom. ] 23:56, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

This must be the colleague of {{vandal|Hickerca}}, who started out by spamming article talk pages before I her to only target user talk pages. For the record, I don't agree with ''any'' spam, however well intentioned. But it doesn't look commercial, and if the committee accepted it, so be it. However, I don't think they need two accounts to do this. ] 07:42, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

::My concern is that if the editors targeted for this survey agree. Makes more sense if the sampling group of articles had a survey template so participation can be voluntary, rather than directly soliciting off article edit historys'.--] 12:00, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

::: I would consider this unsolicited and certainly not what people signing up to wikipedia might expect and it is therefore effectively ].
:::* The research methodology seems catastrophically flawed and any conclusions draw by the study will be dubious - the problem being subjects may partake in the study multiple times, or at least are being invided to do so - I've just ignored the 3rd opportunity to submit, see my talk page , which was my second time I completed the study (I naively assumed that this would prove to be a different series of questions from that which I had been previously asked) and now . The mutiple posting to my talk page to contribute is surely sloppy methodology and the survey's front explanatory page states ''"anonymously recorded"'' so there can not be any data validation to prevent this problem.
:::* Despite requests to Jeandré to become familiar ''"with conventions before you add messages to even more users"'', postings are still added to user talk pages without section headers which is disruptive. We have of course a policy of ], as a requirement of ] for those who are here to work on the collaborative project, however this survey is not contributing to the project.
::: In summary I feel the systematic targeting of wikipedians is intrusive/spamming and not the purpose of user talk pages. If people really feel this is a useful study to further undertanding of wikis/wikipedia, then would not a single posting to say the ] project page be sufficient ? ] <sup> ] </sup> 02:45, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

::::I agree. Besides the flaws with the project itself, I would be unopposed to this if it was ''completely'' opt-in and voluntary (i.e. a message about it posted on one of the many boards around here; perhaps the creation of a new board for this purpose). Spamming in this way really doesn't seem like the way to do it. -- ] <small>(])</small> 02:52, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

:::::Do we need an opinion from the Misplaced Pages Foundation on this ? Not so much about this specific example (although some form of Admin concluding assessment and response seems warranted) but about wider principle of external researchers wanting to research the wiki process by contacting/recruiting wikipedians (I think by nature we're a helpful lot, but the project does come 1st) ? ] <sup> ] </sup> 05:06, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

== I reported a user for vandalism earlier but I'm not sure what happened afterwards ==

I posted a message at ] earlier regarding ]. I can see that ] removed my report with the comment "IP vandals blocked. LIST CLEAR." but I can't see any record of anything on the IP's page. This is the first time I've reported someone for vandalizing articles, I'm just wondering if I've missed something. ] 23:42, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
* says they were blocked for 1 hour on Dec 12. ---] <sup>(]/])</sup> 23:49, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

::I noticed that previous block by ] from 2 days ago, but I couldn't find any record of ]'s action today though, as they've vandalized again since the original 1 hour block. ] 00:00, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

:::Put a note on aeropagitica's talk page. Seems like a honest mistake. ---] <sup>(]/])</sup> 00:23, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

::::OK thanks, I've done that. ] 00:34, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, this was an honest mistake on my part when I was cleaning out the noticeboard during an AIV shift. It does get busy there at times and I've had more than a few edit conflicts when I've been working on a large backlog! Apologies to all for any inconvenience. I will endeavour to be more careful in future. ] 16:11, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

==Problem with ] images==
I've agonized for a day about what to do here:]. Please see ] for details. I would go to a single admin, but it's the second time it's happened. I'm afraid if it's not settled, it's going to go on and on. Thanks<span class="plainlinks">]&nbsp;(] <small>•</small> ] <small>•</small> <small>•</small> <small>•</small> ]</span>) 04:44, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

:Details on this: ] has uploaded (and ] reposted) several pornographic images to ]. The current set are a bit less explicit than the original offerings, but they seem like probable copyvios. When asked to verify that these pictures are taken by ] (as claimed) and posted with the subject's permission (as claimed) the answers are not assuring. Details on ]. &mdash; ] 05:39, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
::They are not pornographic images, but anyway it doesn't even matter. Because wikipedia is not censored, and as such images should be added where they would be of benefit to the article. Such as is obviously the case with ]. The user cooperated with your requests as much as is reasonable, and to claim the answers where not assuring is only true in your own mind. ] <sup>]</sup> 05:58, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Given that more than one editor has removed such images -- for more than one reason, I might add -- snarky nonsense about how things are "only true in your own mind" aren't really called for. Not to mention that "wikipedia is not censored" is not an all-purpose ''carte blanche'', either. --] | ] 07:20, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
::::hmmm... true, perhaps somebody could mis-read what I wrote and take it too seriously. Whatever.. now I'll might add that more than one editor has also added in images to that article. Like the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words, and would be very handy in that article for the greater clarity of it. Shouting out OMG look look somebody put "pornography" in that article is also not an all-purpose ''carte blanche'' for deletion. ] <sup>]</sup> 07:42, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::Hmmm, so you didn't write the insulting phrase "only true in your own mind"? My mistake, but that's how it shows up on my computer monitor. How does it show up on yours? --] | ] 08:09, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::Heh, going to be picky with one phrase and take it out of context to turn about the meaning? If you are easily insulted then fine, be insulted. I can't do anything about changing your overly sensitive sensitivities. Am not one either to go out of my way to offend people, at worst you might just want to accept I at times state things a little too frankly of how see the world for your likings. ] <sup>]</sup> 09:49, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
::::::How exactly is it out of context? It's exactly what you said and it's exactly how you meant it. The reality is that there are laws (not to mention moral issues) regarding taking photographs of someone in a... "compromised state" (whether or not you think it's pornography is irrelevant) and providing the general public with access to them. The truth is that ] doesn't work in some situations, including ones like this. It's far too easy for someone to take such a picture without the subject's knowledge (or to obtain it from another source) and claim that they have the right to take and publicly post such a picture. This is a legal issue; anything else you throw at it is a ]. —] <font color="#C46100" size="1">]</font> 16:39, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::::Whatever, I'm not going to reply here anymore to what you have just said. Don't believe this page here is the right place to be discussing this, and simply don't feel like running the risk anymore of accidentally stepping on somebody's sensitive toes and "offending" them. So lets leave this as that for now. ] <sup>]</sup> 21:37, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
===]===
:A similar controversy may exist on ]. Apparently ] is uploading over objections there. I have not been involved in that discussion. &mdash; ] 05:57, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
::If you read the page you will see there is no problem there, as ] said: "The picture was requested, it is topical, it is legal, it illustrates the article, information should not be removed without reason". ] <sup>]</sup> 06:03, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
::Yes, well, I've commented there, but just because there is a request, that does not mean there is a ''need.'' I might ''want'' to see Julia Stiles with a look of love in her eyes in my bedroom, but that doesn't mean that such a photograph would help the encyclopedia in any way. ] 14:38, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

::That information is old, I had the image removed after several rude comments, and the whole publicgirluk cufuffle. That was a while ago, so any picture there now needs to be considered seperately. ]<small> <sup>(Need help? ])</sup></small> 16:49, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

== Consensus on vandalism user subpages? ==

I am trying to build a consensus on vandalism user subpages. I do not think they are acceptable according to Misplaced Pages's policies, and should thus be done away with accordingly. But first, some background information.

For those of you not aware, a vandalism user subpage is a page created with the sole intent of being vandalized. Typically users will transclude these onto their user pages and leave some text along the lines of, "Vandalize this". To me, these are obviously a bad idea, as they encourage vandalism. Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia, not a vandalism warehouse, and I don't think it's an appropriate use of WMF's servers to be hosting places for vandalism.

One major problem with the vandalism subpages is that they create a bit more work for admins. By their very nature, they attract vandalism, and often a ''bad kind'' of vandalism. I've seen some in these subpages, which creates even more work for Wikipedians and admins, who have to patrol these abominations and remove all of the vandalism that is too bad to be displayed (like the aforementioned "He also masturbates while thinking about his mother."). It's a terrible misuse of admin resources to have to patrol pages that are vandalism magnets; it's much better simply to get rid of the magnets themselves.

Let's look at the kind of culture these subpages promote. They encourage the notion that vandalism is acceptable. Per ], this is a bad idea. They dilute Misplaced Pages's encyclopedic mission by saying "Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia, but also a graffiti wall." Just look at the risk-to-benefit ratio on vandalism subpages; there's all negatives and no positives. Userspace was not created to give users total freedom to create anything they want on Misplaced Pages, and I do believe vandalism is beyond the pale. Also, they create the tricky issue of somehow trying to determine when someone has crossed a line; obviously if someone posts "You're a stupid cunt" on a userpage, they can be blocked for a personal attack, but if they post this on a vandalism subpage, they have some measure of defense by rationalization: "Ohh, but they wanted vandalism, I didn't really mean it." I can only see this leading to more problems and friction between users. Personal attacks should never be acceptable, and we shouldn't give the people making them any sort of excuse to try to make them.

If you go look over at ], you'll see that global criterion for speedy deletion #3 is: "'''Pure ]''', including redirects created during cleanup of page move vandalism." Thusly, vandalism subpages fall under a criteria for ''speedy deletion'', unless and until we come up with some inane policy that "Vandalism is never acceptable, unless the user wants it." Since I really don't see that happening, I will be deleting all of the vandalism subpages that I come across, and I would encourage all of my fellow admins to do the same. --] 14:53, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:I've had the same position since I first saw one of these: they don't help the encyclopedia and as you point out can cause extra work and/or harm. I would support a move to delete them all, adding appropriate verbiage as necessary to ] or other policies and guidelines as appropriate. While normally I am opposed to rules creep, this is not rules creep per se but a clarification of what Misplaced Pages ''is not'', and of the exisiting rules. One puppy's opinion. ]<sup>]</sup> 14:59, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:: Concur: I fail to see why ] fails to apply. HTH HAND —] | ] 15:14, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Nuke'em. ] 15:15, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

* Even mentioning vandalism on a user page - or any page - violates ]. What encyclopaedic purpose do these pages serve? Anyone? <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 15:01, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
** None…but I think you need to provide some context for your first comment. "My main activity on Misplaced Pages is fixing vandalism" is hardly an egregious beanstuffing slogan. HTH HAND —] | ] 15:14, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
***So vandalism subpages don't harm anyone, but don't help the encyclopaedia and encourage trolls, therefore should go. Yet subpage galleries of all the pictures on Commons containing nudity don't harm anyone, but don't help the encyclopaedia and encourage trolls, but should stay. I don't get that. Bafflement at double standards aside, any and all "vandalism subpages" should go. Userspace subpages should either help the encyclopaedia, or be deleted. Misplaced Pages isn't free web hosting. ]<i>::</i><small>]</small> 15:27, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
*****Are you referring to user subpages like ]? (warning: not work-safe). FWIW, before I posted that, I commented on Cyde's talk page in support of nuking the vandalism subpages, and I still support nuking such subpages. ] 15:35, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
*I think Cyde's policy will create more work for admins (now we have to check all userpages if they have a vandalism section??), and is completely unnecessary. Like most policing of userspace, it creates unnecessary drama in the name of "but this does not help building the encyclopedia" without actually helping to build the encyclopedia. Most of the "vandalize this section" sections I have seen on people's userpages were not used for real vandalism, but by usually vandal-fighting Wikipedians having some fun. Keeping Wikipedians happy builds the encyclopedia. ] ] 15:30, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
**Please don't try to turn this on its head and suggest that I am calling for more work. It's clearly less work to simply remove these vandalism subpages than to have to continuously patrol them and clean up the nonsense they inevitably generate. I'm not suggesting that we patrol through every single userspace, looking for these things to delete; merely that we delete them as we run across them. --] 15:46, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
***I'm sorry, I misunderstood your intentions, and apologize for not thinking more before accusing you of policy creep. Userspace is not a free speech zone, and at the very least vandalism subpages whose owners don't clean up personal attack vandalism there should be deleted (now ''I'' am turning this into policy creep). I shouldn't have used Geogre's "good" vandalism section in a way that looks like I encourage "bad" vandalism pages like Fredil Yupigo's free-speech zone. ] ] 11:45, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
* (''posted after edit conflict'') I think these pages should be covered specifically by a mention among the speedy deletion criteria at ] if they are not already. My feeling is that these are like the blank concrete walls of a highway underpass - taggers will fill any open space with graffiti and there are some who would argue "better there than on the building next door to my home"; the analogous argument here would be "better to provide an out-of-the-way place for scribblers to do their stuff than in article-space". However, I don't agree with that argument - these should be done away with, not necessarily only based on their falling under 'vandalism' but also because they are explicitly (when invitations to vandalize are involved) for social networking through shared contributions aimed at a goal other than improving the encyclopedia and therefore fall under part of ] ("Misplaced Pages is not a blog, webspace provider, or social networking site"). --User:Ceyockey (<small>'']''</small>) 15:39, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
**I think some social networking "vandalism" can be good for the atmosphere, see the sonnet section of ]. ] ] 15:41, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
***It sure as hell shouldn't be called vandalism then. Call it a "sandbox" or whatever. --] 15:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
****Certainly not all social networking involves vandalism and not all social networking is banned from Misplaced Pages; that networking that facilitates creation of the encyclopedia should be preserved and in moderation encouraged. Let's put it this way - any speedy deletion criterion needs to be applied using common sense and any page that is deleted under CSD can be taken up for undeletion - including 'valid networking exercises' where they can be considered for preservation in the Misplaced Pages environment. CSD is a broad, fast and crude instrument - which is why it shouldn't be applied letter-of-the-law style and notifications of CSD action need to be put on user talk pages so that remedies for recovery can be applied. --User:Ceyockey (<small>'']''</small>) 15:49, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
**I think we are ignoring the big problem here, and is those fake ''You have new messages'' things... GRR! Ummm, oh ya, the vandalism thing, a sandbox is for learning, practicing, and testing wiki markup that is fine. But if it does not serve the encyclopedia and causes extra work for the community then it cannot be justified. ]<small> <sup>(Need help? ])</sup></small> 16:56, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
***"Fake ''You have new messages'' things" ... huh? I'm not sure what you mean. 'New message' notices generated as the result of vandalism to your user talk page, perhaps? --User:Ceyockey (<small>'']''</small>) 17:07, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
****No, some people actually write fake "new messages" banners and put them at the top of their pages. When you click on it, it doesn't take you to your own talk page, but to somewhere like ] ... though I've seen some trolls making it go to much worse places. And yes, I have been removing those on sight. They're just plain annoying. --] 17:16, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
*****Oh, ok. Sorry for making you spill some BEANS to educate me. --User:Ceyockey (<small>'']''</small>) 17:27, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
**Lol, fergot about the beans. ]<small> <sup>(Need help? ])</sup></small> 17:30, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

:I agree that vandalism subpages fall under CSD 3 and should be speedied. There's no valid reason to have them here. If people want to goof off, they can use the sandbox. ···]<sup>] · <small>] <font color="darkblue">to</font> ]]o]</small></sup> 20:07, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

If Cyde specifically talks about the ] then this piece of the social networking does not contradict the goals of the project and may even somehow encourage creating encyclopedic content. In general, I assume that whoever created a sandbox in his userspace is responsible for cleaning it from bad vandalism. If not G10,G11,G12,G3 are still applicable, no need for the instruction creep ] 23:46, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:We're not talking about sandboxes here, we're talking about vandalism subpages that are explicitly labeled for, and encourage, vandalism. Indeed, in many cases, simply changing the name could make it acceptable. --] 00:31, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I've put a note on ] that refers to a permalink copy of this discussion. I think a reasonable consensus emerged and my thinking is that further discussion would be best to pursue over at WP:CSD. Regards --User:Ceyockey (<small>'']''</small>) 23:10, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

== Closing ] ==

Can some admin please look over the following 2 recently closed polls, related to WP:MOS-JA, and determine if I conducted them properly?....
# ''']'''
# ''']'''
We have exhausted the regular list of impartial admins in WP:MOS-JA, because many of them voted on this issue.

Although I went ahead and closed these 2 polls myself, can some admin look over ''']''' there, and either endorse or revise ''']'''? The 2nd poll is particularly controversial. (For full details on the controversy and background information, see ] (in the WP:MOS-JA talk page) and ].) If the results should be "no consensus" instead, there's also the qustion of what the status quo was to begin with, because there were massive undiscussed page moves and changes at around October. (See page histories of ], ], ], ], ], ], ], etc.) Thank you for your cooperation.--] 15:55, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Husond has requested me to reopen the 2nd poll in my talk page, and I quote him below, but I believe a reanalysis (and possible change of ''']''') by an impartial admin is sufficient.--] 15:55, 15 December 2006 (UTC)....
::"''Endroit, it is very unorthodox for a poll nominator to close his own poll, especially after actively participating in it. Please reopen the poll an wait for an administrator that did not participate to close it. Furthermore, the result was clearly not "oppose" but rather "no consensus". Regards --<strong><font style="color: #082567">]</font>]<font style="color: #082567">]</font></strong> 15:05, 15 December 2006 (UTC)''"

:I too would appreciate it if a few administrators would comment on this poll. I can not claim to be impartial, however I think it is clear that the poll was "no consensus". Regardless of the result, I also question the conclusions drawn from the poll. I have left more specific comments after the poll. Thank you. ] 16:11, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I contacted Tariqabjotu asking him for a second opinion regarding this issue. In ], he agrees that Endroit should've not closed the poll in his favor. However, Tariq reckons that Endroid chose the right output ("oppose"). I am very reluctant to concede "oppose" as the outcome from a discussion with this result (regardless of my bias in this particular one). The borderline of consensus is of course at each editor's discretion, thus it would be pertinent if more administrators state whether they would close this discussion as "oppose" or "no consensus".--<strong><font style="color: #082567">]</font>]<font style="color: #082567">]</font></strong> 17:11, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

:What's the difference between ''no consensus'' and ''oppose / no move'' as it applies to this situation? -- ''']''' 23:44, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

::In this case, it makes the entire difference. The question of the poll is rather unusual, "Proposal — Use the macronned form "Ryūkyū" instead of the common English form "Ryukyu", for all instances of the word "Ryukyu", in body texts and in page names", where "oppose" is agreeing with the proposer's position. A "no consensus" thus leaves everything as it is (]), whereas an oppose leads to the article being moved to ].--<strong><font style="color: #082567">]</font>]<font style="color: #082567">]</font></strong> 00:31, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

:::Even if it was ''no consensus'', I think there a still a strong enough sentiment to keep/put the article at the version without the macrons. The initial move to the version with macrons in October 2006 was not the result of a move request. Although the article existed at the macron version for a month without contention, very few edits were made to the article in that time period and thus the move probably went largely unnoticed. I understand that some of the other articles (and the category) related to the islands may have been at the macroned version for awhile, but I don't think it would be a good idea to be inconsistent with the spelling. Thus, I think the move should be closed as ''keep at or move all to Ryukyu''. -- ''']''' 01:15, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

==Requesting admin resolution of sockpuppet/meatpuppet accusation==
I've been accused of being a sockpuppeteer by ]. This sockpuppet accusation is false. There has been no request for Checkuser; instead, the false accusation has been used as a vehicle for interrogating me, with varying degrees of hostility and incivility, for the past five days. On his own Talk page, this individual has addressed me with the sentence, "Fuck you and the horse you rode in on." I am asking whatever administrator reads this first to resolve Ben's accusation. Declare me guilty or innocent, and let's move on. I've been editing without registering an account for about three years; most of my edits have been for errors in spelling, grammar and punctuation. This practice has two significant features: it's never led to any arguments or animosity before, and it is a much needed service. I continue to have a lot of work to do. -- ] 04:50, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
*Are you ]? ] 05:18, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
* Yes, I am. And I would venture to say that the only "bad" thing that ] and I have done is to express opinions that differ from those of ]. I would add that he has posted the sentence, "Fuck you and the horse you rode in on," addressed to me, then quickly deleted it because he knew I had seen it. I'd appreciate a prompt and amicable resolution of this issue before proceeding with any more edits. -- ] 13:15, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
**Could you specify where that message was left. I don't see it on your talk page. I did see some edit warring over the sockpuppet investigation notice, and civility and AGF warnings to you from ]. -- '''<font color="navy">]</font>''' 18:37, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
**Yes, of course. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:BenBurch&action=history Please review the series of edits between 20:33 and 21:12 on 5 December. Ben and I were having a conversation. He knew that I was on his Talk page, editing. He knew that it was a two-way conversation and that I would see that remark immediately. He posted it and, seven minutes later after he was sure that I'd seen it, he deleted it; and at 21:12, he deleted the entire conversation. This isn't the only personal attack I've received; it's simply the most reprehensible. I must admit that in response to Ben's provocations, I have engaged in behavior that was less than amicable. ] is Ben's tireless defender, supporter and agent in all things Wiki, far more persistently than ] has supported me, and behaving in many respects like a meatpuppet himself -- though I won't make that accusation. The obvious distinction between the Ben/FAAFA relationship and the 12pt/Bryan relationship is that 12pt and I have extensive edit histories spanning 2-1/2 or three years, independent from each other; but they were done from unregistered IP addresses. A review of the archives from Ben's talk pages proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he has a very contentious history here. -- ] 15:09, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
***You started that conversation civilly enough, and BenBurch was not polite in his replies, but you let yourself get dragged into an argument. Ben's comment was definitely out of line but he did remove it himself before anyone spoke to him. As that incident is now ten days old, and you made a point of quoting it in your reply to him after he had removed it from his edit, I'm not inclined to do anything about it now. I do think it would be best if Ben apologized for posting that comment, however briefly it was up, but I think this calls for dispute resolution, not admin intervention. -- '''<font color="navy">]</font>''' 16:27, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
***That remark isn't the point of this request for admin intervention. What about the meatpuppet accusation? What happens with that? Is it just going to be an open-ended inquisition, with Ben and FAAFA declaring it "proven" the moment I refuse to tolerate their interrogation any further? I'd appreciate an admin stepping in and resolving that matter one way or the other. Bear in mind that the hostile exchange on Ben's talk page started on 5 December; the sockpuppet accusation was made on 10 December. -- ] 16:43, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

****The sockpuppet case has not gone anywhere. It's over. This looks like a dispute between you and BenBurch, and frankly, I'm not interested in taking either side in this dispute. I strongly urge the two of you to be civil, avoid personal attacks and pursue dispute resolution. -- '''<font color="navy">]</font>''' 01:24, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

== Indefinite Block of ] ==

] has been involved in a heated, but polite, discussion in a Request For Arbitration discussion. This discussion is followed by dozens of Admins, the majority of whom disagree with ]'s opinion. Admin ] has blocked ] as a sockpuppet of a banned user, ]. No rationale was given for how these users were determined to be the same. ] had a multi-month long edit history , and denied being ] when asked. I am concerned a legitimate user may have been silenced by hasty admin action. I request admin's not associated with the Request For Arbitration ] was commenting on ask Admin ] for his rationale in blocking ]. If inadequate rationale exists, in my opinion the user should be unblocked. ] 18:47, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:I'd be more than happy to discuss the methods used to support the block, the evidence is square, solid, and the identity of the user as a sock puppet is not in doubt. I appreciate Abe's interest in the matter, and his concern for a fellow editor is both commendable and in the best spirit of Misplaced Pages. Because of the sensitivity of the issue and the history of the blocked user (Rootology), I invite any administrator who is interested to contact me off-wiki. Best regards, ]</small> (]) 18:56, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
::I can't call myself completely uninvolved, because I have commented in the ] arbitration case, although I have no experience of editing in the same articles as Seabhcan, MONGO, or XP. I will say, though, that I'm satisfied in this case. Sockpuppetry evidence is never made public, as it would teach people how to avoid detection. In public, I'll say that Rootology was known to be using sockpuppets, and that it was fairly obvious that XP was a sockpuppet of ''somebody''. Regarding the specific evidence that linked the two accounts, let's imagine we had an abusive user who constantly made the same spelling mistake &mdash; one of which he was completely unaware &mdash; and who was known to use sockpupets. Abe, do you think that it would be a good idea for the administrators who knew about it to post here exactly what that spelling mistake was? Chairboy seems, as far as I can tell, to be completely uninvolved in this case. On his talk page, he has said that administrators who would like to know more may contact him. As one who has dealt with this kind of thing before (detecting sockpuppetry, circulating the evidence privately to other admins and to the ArbCom mailing list, and accepting that uninvolved administrators could carry out the block or not, according to their judgment), and as one who has seen some of the evidence in ''this'' case, I'd like to say that I'm completely satisfied. ] ] 19:11, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
::: I am a regular Misplaced Pages contributor, and have not before seen secrecy cited as an integral part of how this project conducts business. Perhaps I am naive, but I would still like an admin uninvolved with ] to investigate the rationale behind ]'s indefinite block of ]. That is all I am asking for. ] 19:20, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
::::Perhaps Chairboy could e-mail his evidence to me. I'm willing to review it. Would that do? ] 19:57, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
::::: That's great, thanks. ] 19:59, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
::::::Thatcher131 has the data. Best regards, ]</small> (]) 20:32, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

:I have had my suspicions about XP for quite some time, since he started editing the MONGO/Seabhcan RfA pages. Thanks, Choirboy. ]|] 00:02, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
::Having seen the evidence I agree it is a very strong circumstantial case; about as good a match as you're going to get without finding a mistake like mis-signing a talk post. I will say in addition to the private evidence, it is worth noting in the XP's contribution history that he went out of his way to antagonize MONGO on several AfDs even though he had never edited the articles in question. Of course, XP can always appeal to Arbcom. ] 00:41, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Abe, I trust Thatcher131, although we have different views about a lot of things, I respect his integrity and I am impressed how he has helped me several times before. ] (]) 03:33, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:::: Thanks for looking into this ]. I'm satisfied with the review. ] 00:55, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

== I have serious problems here ==

I'm the user who worked as Lieutenant Dol Grenn and Pooter-the-clown. I edited the ]-characters and I searched for more informations. I only added the real heights and weights to these characters and ] called it "nonsense". So he added my two usernames to the Administrators' noticeboard. I'm afraid that if someone else would add the heights and weights to these ]-characters again, that ] and also other administrators would blame me again. Please solve my problem. Thanks a lot. {{unsigned|80.121.32.99}}
:Well, in my opinion, adding the heights and weights of the characters (remember, these are fictional characters, so they aren't "real") ''is'' nonsense; they were struck from ''Mortal Kombat'' character articles a long time ago. I would recommend taking it up with Danny directly, rather than coming here. ] <span style="color: #999;">// ] // ] //</span> 21:24, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
::Fictional characters can have heights and weights, just that they would be fictional heights and weights. Nothing wrong with that at all. ] <sup>]</sup> 21:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Nothing wrong with it as long as it's ] and ]. ] 04:06, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
What is not mentioned here is that height and weight were removed from MK and SF articles precisely because of Lt. Grenn's constant edit-warring over the issue. It is much simpler to just eliminate those extraneous details entirely. ] 05:19, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

OK, Danny, I agree but I'm afraid that if another user would add the heights and weights to these characters that you would blame me again. Is there a way to protect these character-pages?

Another problem is that I used several IPs, namely IPs from a school and from a bank and I made the same edits to these Street Fighter-characters and to the list of famous tall men.

But I'll stop with these edits. Promise. I don't want to have serious problems.

==WP:OFFICE means Please Edit==
Jimbo says "] should not be 'hands OFF' but 'hands ON'" (and indicates that the recent stubbing and rewrite of ] is an example of how things are supposed to work) and "The problem is that far too often, when something is tagged WP:OFFICE it just sits there, for months, with everyone scared to do anything. This is the opposite of what is intended.". ] 20:56, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:The problem is that usually, the existing page is deleted and protected. While there's mention down on the bottom of ] that someone should set up a temporary page, and editing should proceed from there, that's not likely to happen, because each potential editor might end up creating his own temp page, and if a subject involves possible liability to the Foundation, then even temporary pages need a good deal of scrutiny before being posted. If Jimbo wants people to try to repair office-protected articles, then he should make structural changes to make it easier. ''']''' <small>]</small> 21:27, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:this has not been cleared by danny and there is no formal board statement. I would recomend doing nothing for the time being.] 22:49, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
::Since when did Danny have to clear Jimbo's statements? --] 23:08, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::No one will touch a ]-tagged article because you have a random chance of getting either censured, immediately reverted, desysopped or killed, with no real definite way or knowing which will happen, and the people who tag the article as WP:OFFICE often don't explain why the article is so marked (usually because someone has threatened to sue Misplaced Pages), and why they have made the edits they have (often they have a reason for this). Well, maybe not killed. Sooner or later, usually later, it will be untagged. Possibly. So trust to ] in the meantime, and go outside. Oh, and you argue with Danny, you get booted, regardless of how much more you may or may not know about the issue at hand. ]<i>::</i><small>]</small> 23:12, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
::::"you argue with Danny, you get booted, regardless of how much more you may or may not know about the issue at hand."
::::Wow, talk about negative perspective. I at least ] that Danny is a rational individual, and would be capable of changing his mind if given persuasive reasons for it. --] <small>]</small> 23:16, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::Lets just say a few of us have veteran status.] 23:25, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Since jimbo was not the board and thus cannot directly give danny orders. We know that jimbo is not always on the same page as other senior people and it is generaly best to be careful.] 23:23, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
::Have you read ]? ''Administrators, who have the technical power to undo protections and deletions, are strongly cautioned against modifying these edits. Official statements and past incidents indicate that such unauthorized modifications will be actively reverted, and possibly the rights of the modifyer will be revoked.''. That's a sure sign that Danny can, at a whim, remove somebody's admin status and block them on sight. '''''This has been done in the past'''''. ]. ]|] 00:04, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Having read the WP:OFFICE page before and just looked at it again, I think it can be understood as meaning that (1) if the Office has tagged a page as Office-protected and it is still protected (note: there are only 7 pages in this category in the entire project, see <Category:Office protected>), then (a) no one should even think about lifting the protection before the Office does, and (b) extreme caution, at a minimum, is required before an admin edits the article (meaning functionally most people should keep miles away); (2) if the Office has indicated a page is being monitored (such as by stubbing it) but has ''not'' protected it or has unprotected it, then it can be edited, but admins should keep an eye on the page to make extra-sure that edits comply with WP:LIVING and other applicable policies. As I said, that's my best understanding of what is trying to be communicated on WP:OFFICE, but if administrators are uncertain as to the scope of the policy, some clarification could be in order. ] 00:22, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
::::Repeated requests for clarification have been ignored. ]|] 00:25, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

: Frustrating 'though a WP:OFFICE action is, we really shouldnt' blame the foundation for it. Defending even the most spurious lawsuit would wipe out the foundation's meagre funds, and Brad, Danny, and the board are obligated to husband those funds as carefully as they can. So they blank the article, issue a stern notice, and they're off the hook (and can show a judge, if necessary, that the foundation took immediate and significant action, which generally gives it safe harbor protection). We might like more information, and we might like a considered opinion from Brad about what we should and shouldn't do, but we aren't going to get it - Brad is the foundation's lawyer, not the encylopedia's, and if he or Danny start opining about what should or could be in the article, they risk losing that safe harbour protection. So expect them to continue to zap articles without meaningful comment or discussion.

: That leaves the matter of how we, the community of editors, should treat an article that has been WP:OFFICEd. That an article has been OFFICEd means that a credible (or at least not utterly incredible) threat has been made. Given that there are a million other articles in need of fixing, I don't see why any editor should expose himself to the (probably small, but certainly nonzero) legal risk that editing the OFFICEd artice entails. I believe we should treat article subjects who legally threaten us the way we treat other editors who do so - we say "sorry, we're not playing". We delete the article, replace it with a tag that says "This article has been blanked due to legal threats by its subject or their agent", and protect the article. And we leave it that way ''forever''. There have, as far as I'm aware, been really two categories of threateners: very marginally notable characters (marginal widdle-diddle metal musicians, some retired 80s porn starlet) whose loss is immeasurably small, and self-promoters who are pissed their article describes them in an unfavourable light. I have no problem whatever with our not having a page on such subjects, ever, and if they like having the top google hit for their name being forever more a notice about their willingness to sue a charity and its volunteers, bully for them.

: WP:OFFICE is just the foundation taking the necessary steps to protect itself. We need to do the same; to my mind anyone who edits any OFFICEd article ''ever'' again is plain bonkers. -- ] | ] 01:35, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

::You definitely have to think about what you are doing before you edit an Officed page, and though ''certain'' edits may be OK to make, certainly don't use any admin tools. ] <sup>]</sup> 01:49, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

:The solution is, of course, to not create articles filled with unsourced, compromising crap, and we won't need the WP:OFFICE Monty Python Foot of Power to crush nonsense from above in the first place. Judging from the majority reaction to the ] incident, however, we're still a fair distance away from realising that. --]<sup>]</sup> 02:38, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

== {{user|69.19.14.44}} Pov pushing, now personal attacks ==

User seems to have some sort of POV pushing agenda in regards to the article ]. Continues to try and paint their donation fund as some sort of evil money scam. Very abrasive and his last comment on the talk page contained a personal attack .--] 23:28, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:Seems to have access to multiple IPs {{user|69.19.14.27}} also same user.--] 00:30, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
::semi-protected. ] 00:34, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


However, as I have learned from it, I will never use multiple accounts anymore and adding controversial content without doing a proper fact-check. I will always listen to users, be constructive and be friendly. I will make sure you will not regret giving me my account back. I would like to work under the account ].}}
== {{t1|mprotected2}} ==
] (]) 18:12, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
:'''Support unbanning and unblocking''' per ]. ] (]/]) 18:31, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
* Quoting my SPI comment ]: {{tq2|I was torn on this. The IP does not seem to be creating the sort of low-quality BLP stubs that SportsOlympic was. If this were "just" a case of ''block'' evasion, I'm not sure I could justify a block of the IP as ] of any disruption, and would be inclined to either ignore it or block but offer a non-] unblock to the main account. However, Sander.v.Ginkel is ''banned'', and under the SportsOlympic account has caused significant disruption just six months ago. Evading a ban is an inherent harm, as it undercuts the community's ability to self-govern. Furthermore, it would be unfair to the community to allow someone to contribute content, particularly in a DS area as much of the IP's recent edits have been, without the community being on-notice of their history of significant content issues. (And there is still troubling content like ].) I thus feel I would be defying the mandate the community has given me as an admin if I did anything but block here.&nbsp;... FWIW, Sander, I could see myself supporting an ] unban down the line, although I'd recommend a year away rather than six months.}}That sentiment is what I eventually wrote down at ], which mentions the same principles being relevant in unban discussions. And now that this is before the community, with even more time having passed, I have no problem unbanning: The post-ban edits, while problematic in that they were sockpuppetry, do show evidence that Sander has learned from his mistakes, and thus a ban no longer serves a preventative purpose. Looking back at the one hesitation I mentioned above, I think my concern was that it was an ] violation that seemed credulous of a pro-Russian narrative; but if there's no evidence of that being part of any POV-pushing, then I don't see it as an obstacle to unbanning. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 18:33, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per above.] (]) 18:37, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
*:Endorse one account proviso. ] (]) 20:28, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
*I'm a little bit concerned by the sockpuppetry returning earlier this year: ]. However, that is over 6 months ago. I would '''Support''' with the obvious proviso that the user be limited to 1 account and that IP editing may be scrutinized for evidence of ]. —&nbsp;]&nbsp;] 20:16, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
*'''Support''' with provisions per above. Worth keeping a close eye on, but they ''seem'' to have understood the problems with their behavior and improved upon it. ] ] <span style="color:#C8102E;"><small><sup>(])</sup></small></span> 07:07, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
*'''Support''' I've previously spoken in favor of the subject as well. ] (]) 09:15, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. "My biggest mistake that I copied-pasted content from articles to other articles, that led to a BLP violation. " That wasn't the biggest mistake by far. You made extremely negative claims about sportspeople based on internet rumors. Apart from this, the first article I checked on simple, , is way too close paraphrasing of the source. has very sloppy writing, "He started his business alone 1980 built so his horse stable "Hexagon" in Schore. " is just nonsense. Copyvio/close paraphrasing seems to be a recurring problem, has e.g. "Zwaanswijk is regarded as one of the most respected post-World War II visual artists of Haarlem and his work had a profound influence on the local art scene." where the source has "Piet Zwaanswijk was een van de meest gerespecteerde na-oorlogse beeldend kunstenaars van Haarlem. Zijn werk had een diepe invloed op de lokale kunstscene". I don't get the impression that the earlier issues have disappeared. ] (]) 11:45, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
*'''Support''' User seems to have recognized what he <!-- before someone complains about my use of the gender-neutral he, this user is male per what they've configured settings to be --> did wrong, has edited constructively off enwiki. ''']]''' 18:52, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
*<s>'''Weak Support''', the crux of the issue was three-fold: creation of low-quality sports stubs (including what Fram said), persistent IDHT when asked to fix them, and sockpuppetry. I recall I identified the SportsOlympic sock in a tangential ANI thread a couple of years ago. It appears he has edited constructively elsewhere. I would like to see a commitment to one-account-only and a commitment respond civilly and collaboratively when criticized. ] (]) 15:45, 18 December 2024 (UTC)</s>
:*'''Oppose''', I am convinced by the further discussion below that S.v.G is not a net positive at this time. ] (]) 14:11, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
* '''Support'''. Completely support an unblock; see my comment ] when his IP was blocked in April. ] (]) 17:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Sander and his socks created literally thousands of poorly-written and/or potentially-copyvio pages on (very frequently) non-notable sports topics. I don't see evidence in his Simple Wiki contribs that his writing has improved, and for someone with his history of non-notable subject choices I would want to see ''clear'' evidence that these creations are supported by WP:SUSTAINED, non-routine, IRS SIGCOV. Articles like may well be on notable competitions, but with content like {{tq|On 20 March the Women's Fencing Club gave an assaut, in honor of the visit of the Dutch team. As seen as an exceptional, mr. de Vos was a the only man allowed to visit the women's club.}}, and all sources being from 20 or 21 March 1911, we can be confident that verifying and rewriting the mangled translations and searching for continued coverage will be a huge pain for other editors. And going from the en.wp AfD participation I'd also anticipate the same combativeness and time wasted explaining P&Gs to him in that area as well. Given the volume of his creations, I don't think it is fair to foist all the extra work that would come with overturning the ban onto other editors without a much more thorough evaluation of his Simple Wiki contribution quality. ] (]) 02:34, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
* Currently '''oppose'''; open to a change of view if some explanation and assurances are given with regard to the points Fram raises. There is no point in unblocking a problematic editor if it appears that they may well continue to cause issues for the community ~ ''']'''<sup>''']''']</sup> 12:59, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
* '''Support''' but keep an eye on contributions off ENWP. ] (]) 17:11, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
*:{{yo|Ahri Boy }} Not sure we are concerned with contribs off ENWP. ] (]) 18:27, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
*::He might appeal on Commons later if the appeal here is successful, so there would be a cooldown before doing there. ] (]) 01:15, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per Fram on close paraphrasing, JoelleJay on sourcing/writing quality, and my own observations on English-language proficiency (I see very recent sentences like "]"). At an absolute minimum I would need a restriction on article creation (to prevent the low-quality mass creation issues from recurring), but these issues would be a problem in other areas too. I think continuing to contribute to simple-wiki and nl-wiki would be the best way forward. ] (]) 01:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:He was once blocked on NLWP for the same sockpuppetry as here before. I don't even know that he may be offered SO there. ] (]) 10:16, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*::See . ] (]) 10:22, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Like Fram, JoelleJay, and Extraordinary Writ, I have concerns about their competence with regards to copyright, notability, and simple prose writing. I think an unblock is likely to create a timesink for the community, who will be forced to tie one eye up watching both of his hands. &spades;]&spades; ] 08:41, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
* Come on – it's been nearly ''seven years'' since the ban – why can't we give another chance? His articles from when he was an IP seemed quite good (and much different from stubs which seem to have been the problem), from what I remember (although they've since been G5'd). ] (]) 16:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:S.v.G. needs to be reevaluated. He needs to clarify that the purpose of return is genuine, constructive, and one account only. He hasn't made any contributions to Commons because he was blocked. ] (]) 19:55, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:: I think saying that {{tq|I will never use multiple accounts anymore}} and that he wants to {{tq|make constructive content}} would indicate that {{tq|the purpose of return is genuine, constructive, and one account only.}} ] (]) 19:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::For the meantime, he should stay at Simple and NLWP for another six months to make sure no suspicions will be made before appealing under SO. ] (]) 20:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:But it's only been three years since he was mass-creating non-notable stubs with BLP violations and bludgeoning AfDs with his SportsOlympic sock. He then edited extensively as an IP, got banned for 18 months, restarted within two weeks of that ban ending, and made another 1000+ edits until his latest IP ban in spring 2024. After which he immediately invoked the (laxer) equivalent of the SO on nl.wp... ] (]) 21:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:: And he admits that he was {{tq|too focused on quantity, rather than quality}}, apologized repeatedly, and his creations as an IP showed that he was no longer focused on {{tq|mass-creating non-notable stubs}}. ] (]) 21:18, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*'''Support''' With the above mentioned provisions. Seems like a genuine, good faith, attempt to ]. <span style="font-family: Trebuchet MS;">'''] ]'''</span> 04:44, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - Like a lot of behavioral issues on this site, I think it all stems back to the general public seeing this site as an all-inclusive encyclopedia and some users here seeing the site as a celebrity encyclopedia. If the user becomes a problem, action can be taken again. Let's see how it goes. ] (]) 20:03, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per Fram and PMC. <span style="white-space: nowrap;">—]&nbsp;<sup>(]·])</sup></span> 18:52, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
*'''Question''': Is SvG the same person as {{U|Slowking4}}? There has been an odd connection between the two in the past; I think it was first noted by ]. ☆ <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family: Papyrus">]</span> (]) 22:58, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
**No. ] (]) 23:01, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. This appears to be a good-faith attempt at a return, and looking through the commentary here I don't see evidence to suggest continuing the ban and block are preventative. - ] <sub>]</sub> 23:44, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


== Spider-Man: Beyond the Spider-Verse - draft article about a future film seems to be a long-term draft ==
I created {{t1|mprotected2}} and ] to assist with keeping track of templates and images that are protected because they are used in articles linked from the Main Page. Hopefully, protecting images and templates used in Today's Featured Article will not be a requirement as it is for images and templates used ''on'' the Main Page. However, due to the recent deceptive and disturbing vandalism, some images and templates have had to be protected. Hopefully, admins who do that from now on will add {{t1|mprotected2}} so other admins will know to unprotect the pages at some point. -- ''']''' 00:50, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:Good idea. Thanks for creating it. ] 04:04, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


I have not come across a situation like ] before. Maybe this is fairly common and I have just missed it.
== ] ==


It is a draft article about a film that can not have an article, per ]. I think the idea is that there is some valuable content there and it would be a shame to delete it when it seems likely that the film will enter final animation and voice recording in the next year or so.
He continues to make a test page, removing the <nowiki>{{G2}}</nowiki> I place on his ] page. Please intervene as I believe I have warned him as much as I possibly can for removing the aforementioned CSD, after I referred him to the sandbox explicitly in the welcome message I first left him. ] 02:25, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
<br /><br />
Hmmm, I may have been too hasty. He has not removed the latest CSD. Please watch for further violations. ] 02:25, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
<br /><br />
Update: He just blanked his page. I will list it as <nowiki>{{G2}}</nowiki> and see if the issue resolves itself. ] 02:27, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


The problem is that it is attracting the sort of speculative edits from IPs that we want to avoid. Both on the draft and the talk page.
== Backlog of expired prods ==


I became aware of this because there is a request at ] to EC-protect the talk page. But it makes me think we should have some kind of protection for the draft too. But I can see arguments for weaker than ECP (speculation is just by IPs) and for stronger... like... why are people editing it anyway? Maybe there are reasons I am not aware of.
Currently at 4 days or 499 "articles" and user pages. Please help out to eliminate this backlog. Thanks. ] 02:57, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


Is anyone more familiar with how we got here? Anyone got any arguments for or against applying semi, EC or full protection to the draft and its talk page?
== Ethics of banning socks ==


<small>'''Edit:'''</small> Anyone got any thoughts on the concept of having a draft article for a film that doesn't meet ]?
Now that ] is community banned as the sockmaster of the ] I have a query about whether there's still a conflict of interest reason for me to refrain from banning his sockpuppets. So far I've touched only one: an impersonation account ] that deleted archive contents of Williamson's prior talk page wars. Some of those socks have been inactive for many months but other suspected socks remain disruptive at Williamson's other interest points: cross-dressing, homosexuality, and Catholicism. In particular I noticed ] this evening - a declined request whose other named accounts don't look like red flags for Williamson socks to me - but the edit history for ] is classic Williamson activity. I've suspected the account of being a sock since September when it edit warred to delete a link from ]. My long investigation probably puts me in the best position to identify his socks - I'd checkuser anything that's dubious. Do I have the community's support to use sysop tools here? <font face="Verdana">]<sup>'']]''</sup></font> 05:00, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:There are no conflicts of interest with banned users. There are no conflicts of interest simply because an abusive user declares one. —]→]&nbsp;&bull; 07:09, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
::Then here's my second question: I'd like to notify the relevant Wikiprojects for these other subjects because I suspect he'll attempt to dodge enforcement by hopping between socks and different articles. Those project participants would be more likely to spot that behavior than I would. The only catch is where to send them to report such a complex case. ] doesn't normally handle sockpuppet investigations. Since I know this case in so much depth, would it be appropriate to refer new reports directly to my user talk?
::And BTW I don't think this user has claimed I have a conflict of interest. I want to proceed in a way that proves I've been fair and honest in case some future troublemaker ever tries to claim I acted improperly. Since I do a lot of investigations I field spurious misconduct allegations fairly often. I'm open to recall so I want to cover all my bases. Thanks, <font face="Verdana">]<sup>'']]''</sup></font> 14:26, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Maybe the entry at ]? ] 10:38, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
::::I've updated that in the last day. After giving this a lot of thought and asking for input I've decided to put my name forward as the primary investigating admin (and contact point). By the way, the only ] editor that's been confirmed as a Williamson sock is ]. <font face="Verdana">]<sup>'']]''</sup></font> 14:16, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
I see several possible approaches. One, enlist another sysop to take over. Two, enlist a couple of admins to review your work and handle appeals. Three, document the heck out of each action you take - specifically the reasoning behind each action. This leaves the door open for peer review and is probably the most practical. ] 14:38, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:If any of these suspected socks appeals a ban I'll be ready with evidence, although this user's long and creative career makes it slow reading to even review the documentation, much less replace me (I wouldn't wish this on anyone). I suppose my long hours of work on the case are far from ended. <font face="Verdana">]<sup>'']]''</sup></font> 15:25, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
::{{user|CC80}} and socks have been trolling on ] and vandalizing sourced information. They have succeeded in getting a contradictory and jumbled version protected.<b>]]</b> 18:04, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:Durova, to respond to your opening post, I agree with Centrx. There's no COI that I can see and I don't think you should be hamstrung by the sock of a community banned vandal. I believe you have the common sense to know when you might be compromised and should step back and ask another admin to act. ''']''' 09:11, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


] (]) 00:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
== ] semiprotection ==
:As far as I'm aware, articles on films are allowed so long as principal photography has occurred (principal animation in this case, I guess?). That has clearly happened for this film, even if they are having to scrap and re-write things. And notability is certainly not in question, so having an article is fully within the policy rules. If there are harmful edits happening, then semi-protection seems like a normal response. ]]<sup>]</sup> 00:43, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::People say that on the draft's talk page every so often and get rebuffed. Maybe you can be more persuasive, but the general argument is the existing animation was created for "Spider-Man: Across The Spider-Verse" before it was split into two films and no "final animation" has begun on this film. ] (]) 01:03, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Are they basing that claim on any reliable source as evidence? Since what exists in that draft currently with reliable sources clearly indicates work has started. ]]<sup>]</sup> 01:11, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::::Hi. I'm the editor who has requested the protection for this draft. Per ], final animation or voice recording are the requirement to move a film draft to the mainspace. Final animation is different from standard reels being produced, which as sourced, is currently what this film has produced while no voice recording has occurred. It seems to still be very early in development, and much of the earlier work when this was the second part was reportedly scrapped (as sourced in the draft). I do not believe the mainspace viability ought to be discussed here as that is more for the draft. As for the protection request, it appears to be the same person making these disruptive comments which have become unnecessarily excessive and are detracting from the content of the draft itself. I requested protection (initially as ECP though semi works for the talk) because these comments have not benefitted any actual constructive progress and have largely ranged from the IPs attempting to enforce their own opinions about the delays and trying to remove sources they don't like, which has been ongoing since the end of October. As a draft, not many other editors are editing this, so it becomes quite unrelenting and tiresome to deal with these repeated disruptions. Glad to see this has garnered more attention. ] (]) 01:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::{{tqq|Per WP:NFF, final animation or voice recording are the requirement to move a film draft to the mainspace}} ...I'm ''pretty sure'' that BtSV meets ] already, regardless of the state of production, and ''that'' should be the main factor. - ] <sub>]</sub> 03:49, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::I have no problem with the draft being moved, this is just not the normal route to do so and typically NFF is followed for film articles, but I digress. I do caution that this article {{em|could}} be susceptible to further unconstructive comments in the mainspace, but that is a price I'm willing to handle. I can make the move as needed, no worries, I am primarily concerned about these type of comments continuing and if any protection is necessary to prevent or temporarily postpone them from continuing. ] (]) 05:18, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:There doesn't appear to be enough disruption to the draft page to justify protection at this point. Draft talk definitely should get semi-protection. ] (]/]) 00:45, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::Really? That seems excessive for a few FOURMy IP comments (likely from the same person). If they continue with it, block the IP, maybe. Protecting talk pages should really be a last resort. ] (] &#124; ]) 00:58, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:Some people overly use NFF to block any film article that has not confirmed start to production, which is really a bad black/white approach. ''Most'' films prior to production are not notable or may not even happen when they are first hinted at, and thus it is absolutely appropriate to use NFF to hold back on a standalone until production starts. But then you have some exceptional cases like this (the 3rd of the animated Spider-Man movies that have earned a massive amount of money and praise, with a lot of attention already given to the film even before production) as well as my own experience with ] which deals with a film that has numerous delays and other incidents that its still nowhere close to production, but its journey that way is readily sourced. NFF should not be used to block creation of articles on films that have this much detail about the work that is otherwise suitable by notability guidelines. For this specific article on the Spider-man film, I see no reason why it could not be in main space at this point as to avoid the whole draft problem.<span id="Masem:1735450356365:WikipediaFTTCLNAdministrators&apos;_noticeboard" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;] (]) 05:32, 29 December 2024 (UTC)</span>
::Yeah, there is a point to be made that even if this final film somehow never finished production, it would still be notable because of the coverage of its attempted production history. There's several films (and video games, among other cultural apocrypha) that meet that notability requirement, even without ever actually having been completed and released to the public. ]]<sup>]</sup> 05:36, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Indeed, a number of aborted films projects are notable exactly ''because'' they wound up in ]. ] is a film about my personal favorite never-got-made film. ] ] 02:59, 30 December 2024 (UTC)


Noting here that Trailblazer101 moved the article from draft space to main space at 22:44, based on the discussion here and ]. I have not seen any objections to that move since it was done. I have not seen any more speculative or forumy edits recently. There is a good chance they will come back, but if they come back in a serious number the article and/or talk page can be given an appropriate level of protection at that point, or, if the responsible IPs/accounts can be blocked. I think it is probably time to close this discussion. ] (]) 10:56, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
Semiprotection was requested on ] by ]. I think semiprotection for a couple of days is warranted. The article was edited in a POV manner by at least two IPs. The question is sensitive and attractive for vandals and POV pushers. I see no problems if the article will be protected for a couple of days. Everybody interested in the edit warrings could get an account. Obviously, if could persuade another admin to unprotect the article I would not revert his or her actions ] 05:54, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:The IP has made three unconstructive and uncivil comments on the talk today (see , and they show no signs of stopping. ] (]) 18:03, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
::I have blocked that IP. I note that it is possible that some of the other IPs could be the same users and so will block other IPs and/or apply semi-protection if this continues (or encourage others to do the same if I am away from my computer). ] (]) 11:51, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
* {{tq|Anyone got any thoughts on the concept of having a draft article for a film that doesn't meet WP:NFF?}} Using draftspace to incubate articles on subjects that are not yet notable but almost certainly will be—unreleased films, upcoming elections, sports events, the next in an "X by year" series, and so on—is a common practice and has been as long as I can remember. As such it's listed at ]. &ndash;&#8239;]&nbsp;<small>(])</small> 12:04, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
**Thank you. ] (]) 15:01, 1 January 2025 (UTC)


I think it makes sense to archive all threads in ]. They are all either forumy or else asking when the page can be moved to article space, which is no longer relevant since it is in article space. ] (]) 20:06, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
==Chronic vandal duplicates my username==
:I've updated the archive bot on that talk age to act on 1 month old threads. Should get rid of half of the ones on there when it runs next and the rest will follow soon enough. I've always thought 6 months was way too long of a default archive policy. ]]<sup>]</sup> 20:11, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
A vandal i've been chasing and reverting(they've regsitered several accounts over the past 15 minutes), has registered a ] discernably ] to mine and is performing vandalism with it. thanks, ] 07:12, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


== Conflict of interest - Veeranjaneyulu Viharayatra Article ==
I have indefinitely blocked {{user5|Ikanread76}} for the name and for being an obviouse sockpuppet. I have also blocked {{user5|The Megocian76}} and {{user5|YankeesGlen}} as obvious sockpuppets (of an as yet unidentified puppetmaster). (Just look at their edit summaries.) There's probably more to be found, but I need to go back to bed. If more than one admin agrees that these blocks should be lifted or modified, you don't need to contact me first. -- '''<font color="navy">]</font>''' 10:05, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
{{atop
| status = Venue corrected


| result = Now at ]. —&nbsp;]&nbsp;] 21:32, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
== I Requesting to admin to block User srkris Permanently from Misplaced Pages ==
}}
], I think there is a conflict of interest here. The director himself has created an account and working on the article - ] (]) 07:51, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
1 ) '''He is lying '''
:You should report this at ]. - ] <sub>]</sub> 08:15, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
::Gave the purported director a COI welcome template. ] (]) 08:23, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
please read a sentence he typed in his user page
{{abot}}
'''Misplaced Pages seems to have a lot of nuts, and ''this user decided to stay away from it for his own sanity'' ~ Srkris''' .
My question is that if user srkirs stay away from wikipeidia for his own sanity why he editing in wikipeida using varios IP Address '''59.92.xxx.xxx''' ?


== Unclear policy ==
*http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/Srkris
{{atop
*http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/59.92.63.37
| result = Asked and answered. —&nbsp;]&nbsp;] 05:02, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
*http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/59.92.66.141
}}
*http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/59.92.87.12
*http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/59.92.83.98
*http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/59.144.27.187
*http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/59.92.38.148
*http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/59.92.50.88
*http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/59.92.46.102
*http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/59.92.59.162
2 ) '''He is spamming'''
He is the owner of some website like '''Chembai.com''', '''rasikas.org'''(PunBB.org Forums ). He tried to put weblink like '''chembai.com''', '''rasikas.org''' etc in almost all article to ''' promote his personal website'''.
3) He is trying to put images and images belong to ] in various article. And editing that article to show Chembai and his other '''fans/relative''' are great and others are nothing in carnatic music especially ] and ]. And trying to emphasize chembai.
4) This is a request to admin that please don't allow '''Aum (OHM)''' or '''Flag of India''' before any user name. It may be an Website of USA , but we have to Keep our Values.
5) He is pretending that he is a scholler in ].
6) A blocked user should not try to edit any article . But''' he violate the law in the wikipedia'''.
7) He is threatening some users with some wiki rules. and he is not obey the rules.
* if the above mentioned are not matching with character of '''user srkris''' any body can remove this .
thanks and
bye
] 07:21, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


If an RfC about ''policy'' -- i.e., things that one is and is not allowed to do -- was closed with no consensus, but the current state of policy is contradictory (as in, existing policies contradict one another, or more specifically policies contradict guidelines), what is the path forward? I would really like there to be a hard ruling one way or the other, because I am receiving feedback that implies that I would be breaking the rules somehow for following policy that exists.
:I don't understand half of these. Please provide ]. -- ] <small>(])</small> 07:33, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
::The guy has a definite point here even if his English grammar is a bit sub-par. For some diffs, take a look at these ones to ]:


For disclosure this is about ] on reverting vandalism to talk page archives, and ], about the more than 2,200 instances of undetected vandalism that people are telling me I am not allowed to revert, citing a consensus that does not actually exist. I cannot emphasize how ''absolutely wild'' it is that there is controversy over whether one is allowed to revert vandalism and that people are actually angry at me for trying to revert vandalism, ''']''', and I was under the impression that policy trumps guidelines, in general. But here we are.
::


I apologize for the repeated questions about this but I am very frustrated about this, and existing methods of trying to come to some kind of clarity about what our policy actually is have not proven fruitful. It feels like a dispute resolution issue -- there are certain individuals who are giving me more grief about this than others -- but I don't really know the right venue for that, nothing is obvious. ] (]) 18:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
::and the ones to ]:
:I'm curious as to the source of your interest in archives that the vast majority of readers and editors are unlikely to see. ] (]) 18:16, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
::The source of my interest is that I think vandalism is bad. I don't have a particular interest in archives; they're just what's left now since I've already done the same kind of sweeps for the obvious undetected vandalism in articlespace, Wikidata, Commons, etc.
::This isn't just my opinion, it's Misplaced Pages policy. It's one of the most fundamental policies we have, just short of ] (you know, the one that says "any contributions can and may be mercilessly edited"). It's also more than a little contradictory to claim that archives are not important, yet simultaneously ''so'' important that there are harsher restrictions on editing them than almost anything else on the project. We have a way of indicating things shouldn't be edited, it's called protecting the page (]). ] (]) 18:29, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
:::That doesn't really answer my question; I understand the desire to work against vandalism, but shouldn't you be concentrating on pages that are more visible? We're also not talking about vandalism caught in the moment(i.e. by watching the Recent Changes feed). I'm (and I think others) just wonder if you think that's really the best use of your volunteer time.
:::There are reasons to not routinely protect archives; bots or humans fixing links, for example. ] (]) 19:02, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
:*I may not be understanding the problem but if an editor has vandalized an archived page, it's completely okay to revert that edit. But if an editor has vandalized a regular page and that page THEN gets archived, it should be left alone. But we have vandals causing mischief to, say, ANI archives and their edits are just reverted if they are discovered. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:06, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
:*:Any reason why the ANI archives (and similar archives) are simply not fully protected to avoid vandalism? ]] 19:09, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
:*::I assume vandalism to archives is rare, and there are sometimes legitimate reasons to edit them. <span style="white-space: nowrap;">—]&nbsp;<sup>(]·])</sup></span> 19:15, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
:I think you should move this complaint to ]. You will get better response there. ] (]) 14:23, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
::If this belongs on either of the noticeboards, it belongs here, not at ANI. Aslo, I think {{U|Liz}}'s comments are spot on.--] (]) 15:00, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
:::"More" response is not always a better response. And I think we addressed Gnomingstuff's question, as much as I understood what they were asking about. It was pretty vague. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 03:46, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== 43.249.196.179 (again) ==
::


See their previous thread here, ]. Continuing to disrupt and remove categories without explanation, decided to after restoring edits without any talk page discussion, and has now moved onto and by removing categories without said user's permission, calling my reversions 'vindicitive' and now considering me their personal 'nemesis' because they don't understand why they're being reverted. <span style="font-family: Roboto;">''']''' <span style="color:#00008B">•</span> <small>''(])''</small></span> 21:16, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
::It should be noted, however, that the IP ] simply seems to be making your normal newbie test edits and may be unrelated. Those edits were in September though, so it is equally possible that it was ] prior to his creating an account, as he officially joined in October. Does this need to go to checkuser, or is the evidence good enough for blocks of any recently used IPs already? There are numerous similar diffs, I found those ones in about 45 seconds. --] <small>]</small> 12:03, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:] is not familiar with some of the WP policies and guidelines especially ] and ]. Also, his obfuscated username is somewhat fustration and is not conducive to efficient editing. ] (]) 21:21, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
:::He appears to have a possible account sock as well: ], who keeps edit warring over the picture to use on ] for no explicable reason and conveniently appeared after the page was semi-protected. --] <small>]</small> 12:24, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:]: Editing user pages has no 'hard policy' prohibition, as this is a wiki. 'End of discussion', seriously? Also see ]. Then, ] is a container category, which clearly says it should only contain subcategories. Even I don't understand why they're being reverted. -- ] <sup>]</sup> 22:08, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
::] seems to be unaware of many of the WP polices and guidelines. ] (]) 08:03, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I've been here nineteen years so obviously I do and I apologize if as mentioned I'm more aggressive about userspace being in control of the user themselves. That said I'm no longer engaging with you or any of your edits as you're now ] and trying to troll some kind of response out of me (and doing the same for Liz, who has the patience of a saint), which you won't get. Understand our guidelines or get blocked. If anyone uninvolved would like to close this, please do so. <span style="font-family: Roboto;">''']''' <span style="color:#00008B">•</span> <small>''(])''</small></span> 17:16, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Length of time on WP is not a measure of how familiar an editor is with policy and guidelines. Your previous comments show that you are unfamiliar with some of them, but to be fair, it is impossible to know all of them. There are a lot of editors that do not know a lot of the policies and guidelines. THere are content disputes and corrections and reverts happening all the time because of inexperienced editors.
::::I am not trolling. I just want WP to be much better than it currently is. ] (]) 19:50, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
::Adressing that final point, I have ] about ] to either remove the ] banner tag or give special sanction to empty user pages from that main category. ] (]) 21:08, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Category:Wikipedians is at a level of the hierarchy that there should be nothing in it, which is why it is a container category. The contents of it have been added by editors who do not understand how WP works and do not realise that it is a container category. You proposal is not needed. ] (]) 22:07, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:'''Comment''': ] was cited in ] (a sandbox used for drafting a larger edit needing discussion, where categories were copied along with the rest of the article's content). (] is mentioned explicitly in that guideline.) ] (]) 02:49, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
::Whatever the case, user sandbox space is sacred and unless you have permission to edit there, you don't touch them, that's an unwritten rule. Mathglot certainly . That's the main issue here and if I was wrong on the cats so be it, but they should not be playing in sandboxes they shouldn't be in. <span style="font-family: Roboto;">''']''' <span style="color:#00008B">•</span> <small>''(])''</small></span> 02:54, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
::: Just to clarify: I have no qualms about others making improvements to pages in my users space—which belong to the community and are not "mine"—as long as they are improvements. That said, IP's edits in my userspace look like vandalism to me. ] (]) 03:04, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:::User namespace is not "sacred". And if there is an unwrittten rule then it is not a rule that needed to be adhered to. Also ]. To be a good editor it is important to be familiar with policis and guidelines. ] (]) 08:03, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:It was not a "gravedance". I was pointing out to you that other editors dont agree with you edits. ] (]) 09:15, 1 January 2025 (UTC)


I only just noticed this AN discussion, after placing ] at User talk:43.249.196.179 about vandalizing a Draft template in my user space. Their edits seem somehow to be related to categories, but near as I can guess from their edit summary ], they also had some inscrutable complaint about me using my userspace as "social media". Maybe interested parties here will understand what they are talking about, because I certainly don't. As of this point, I cannot tell if they are well-meaning, but highly misinformed and uncomprehending, or if they are simply trolling everyone. I suspect the latter, but am willing to be proved wrong, especially if enceforth they stick to ] and ], instead of ignoring advice given previously and ]. ] (]) 03:00, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:I have blocked ] indef as a sock of Srkris‎, and increased Srkris‎' block to 21 days from today for evasion. Please review this if you think I was in error, but it seemed clear to me. ]<small> <sup>(Need help? ])</sup></small> 14:38, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
: Okay, now I am sure: see ] at my Talk page, quickly reverted by {{u|Remsense}} while I was in the process of reverting it. This is clearly intentional, malicious, vandalism, as well as retaliation. Therefore, I propose an '''indefinite block''' on {{user|43.249.196.179}} as it is a vandalism-only account. ] (]) 03:13, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
::I haven't looked into this editor's edits but we don't indefinitely block IP editors as the IP account can easily be assigned to a different user. But they can receive longtime blocks on the order of months or years. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 04:33, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
::You are looking at two different IP addresses. Getting things right is important. ] (]) 07:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)


== Personal attacks by ] ==
IMO, the chances that Harikw is a sockpuppet of Srikris is quite low. Their editing style and contributions are very different. ] (]) 04:33, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
{{Atop|The OP needs to let go and move on.--] (]) 14:26, 1 January 2025 (UTC)}}


I was to report this here.
:Since I am not completely sure I have unblocked the user and apologized. ]<small> <sup>(Need help? ])</sup></small> 05:52, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


The editor in question: {{Userlinks|Remsense}}
== Please unblock ==


* Claiming a user "can't read": . Clear violation of ].
Please unblock It was a compromised host someone hacked into my system but my network admin fixed the issue. Please unblock. 65.99.214.132
* Calling a user a "scoundrel": . Clear violation of ].
* Telling a user "get the hell off my page" for leaving a mandatory notification: . Clear violation of ].
* Claiming a user is "baiting" for seeking enforcement of a 3RR violation . Clear violation of ] and ].
] (]) 21:53, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
:Per the helpfully linked diff, I'm not going to be further baited by this person. In disputes like this one I've behaved too cattily for my own liking after being dragged to ANI and the like, and I'd prefer to turn over a new leaf in 2025. If anyone else has questions, let me know. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>]</span> 22:06, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
:@2001:569:7FEA:2900:8049:8F17:E1E:C30: You have wasted too much community time. After being reverted at ] (]) you are extending your complaint to here. If this continues, I will block your IP range and any other IPs or new editors that pop up with a continuation of this dispute. Discuss disagreements about article content at article talk pages per ]. ] (]) 22:12, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
::(For the record, I will not be participating in any ] process pertaining to this. I am not interested in correcting the errors introduced to the page at the moment, and trust other editors to competently follow our content guidelines.) <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>]</span> 22:26, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
:You were ''not'' instructed to report this here. The relevant sentence in the diff contains "if". ] (]) 22:21, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
: IP, just ]. Please stop trying to get Remsense sanctioned. It's just gonna get you ] per ], as you haven't shown ''sanctionable and repeated'' misconduct on your diffs. I concur with Phil Bridger. ]<sup>]</sup> 22:40, 31 December 2024 (UTC)


{{reply to|Johnuniq}} {{tqi|After being reverted at WP:AN/3 (diff) you are extending your complaint to here.}} What does that diff have to do with anything? My complaint at ] was about Remsense's 3RR violation. My complaint here is about their personal attacks. I was directed to report that here.
:How do you ''know'' it's fixed? How are we to know that it's fixed? Claiming that ''someone else did it'' is more than iffy. -- ] <small>(])</small> 07:32, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


{{tqi|If this continues, I will block your IP range and any other IPs or new editors that pop up with a continuation of this dispute.}} For pursuing enforcement of Misplaced Pages's policies? What kind of Kafkaesque nonsense is that?
I know it´s difficult but it is fixed. How can I prove this to you? You can watch the edits after you unblock me, then you see I like wikipedia. I would not do such things. I beg you please unblock. 65.99.214.132
:Sorry, but the account had been compromised and will not be unblocked. ] 07:38, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


{{reply to|Phil Bridger}} {{tqi|You were not instructed to report this here.}} Yes I was. {{tqi|The relevant sentence in the diff contains "if".}} And the antecedent of that "if" is satisfied, as the above diffs show.
It '''was''' not anymore, please unblock it i like wikipedia. 65.99.214.132


{{reply to|Codename_AD}} {{tqi|DROPTHESTICK}} The last retort of someone who knows they're in the wrong. By the way, "DROPTHESTICK" isn't policy.
:There's some sound reasoning behind it. i.e. sockpuppet ], and that your account vandalized your own failed RfA, which is unlikely for a random vandal who got control of the account. In any case, if the hackishness is true we can't know if it's still compromised or not, and can't unblock it. -- ] <small>(])</small> 07:43, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


{{tqi|you haven't shown ''sanctionable'' and ''repeated'' misconduct on your diffs}} Yes, I have. How many more examples of Remsense's misconduct do you need? Give a number. ] (]) 20:22, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
Please! Everything of that was the vandal. Now the network leak is fixed. Please unblock the account. What about the IP adress? Please unblock at least this. Otherwise I can´t do anything on wikipedia. 65.99.214.132
:I've blocked the above IP. ] 07:55, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


With this blatant administrator abuse and corruption, it's no wonder Misplaced Pages is perceived as a joke by the public nowadays. Circling the wagons to shield a user from rule enforcement and cover for each other's admin abuse.
:He's ]. -- ] <small>(])</small> 09:08, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


Why do you have such a strong interest in protecting Remsense from Misplaced Pages's rules? Is Remsense part of your "clique"? ] (]) 20:23, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
== Large numbers of redirects to ] ==


*'''Blocked'''. For the disruption and personal attacks above and at ], I have blocked 2001:569:7FEA:2900:0:0:0:0/64 for a month. Pinging {{u|Johnuniq}}: will blocking this /64 do it, John? ] &#124; ] 21:24, 1 January 2025 (UTC).
See ], many of which were created by {{user|Hexdec16}}, who does not seem to be stopping. Is this going to get to represent every possible word that can be expressed with 0-9 / A-F ? It seems a bit much. -- ] <small>(])</small> 10:30, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
*:{{re|Bishonen}} My provider gives me /56 and leases of /48 are not unheard of at other providers. ] (]) 01:45, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
*:I haven't even given anyone a reason to like me that much, so this kind of result only makes sense if I'm demonstrably the duller thorn in the community's side. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>]</span> 04:47, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
*::If anything new turns up, let me or Bishonen know. I am closing this now. ] (]) 04:59, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
{{Abot}}


== Happy New Year! ==
:It's kind of like a reverse category through redirects. I wouldn't see the harm in doing this for values that actually have some documented use (as people might then encounter these), but just entering every combination of those letters that can make a word seems rather pointless. —]&nbsp;<sup>]</sup> 10:46, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
{{atop|result=Happy New Year to all editors on this project! <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 00:26, 2 January 2025 (UTC)}}
Happy New Year to the administrators of the English Misplaced Pages! Here's to a vandal-free 2025. <small>Well, as vandal-free as y'all can get without having no more work left to do.</small> ]<sub>]<sub>]</sub></sub> (]/]) 00:00, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:Happy New Year to the whole English Misplaced Pages community! ] (]) 00:29, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
: Thank you. And Happy New Year to the non-admin watchers here too. ] ] 00:47, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
::The most I can muster, to all editors, is after 2024, I hope all of your 2025s are better than you expect them to be! <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 04:37, 1 January 2025 (UTC)


{{abot}}
== ] move to ] ==


== RM completion request ==
] is needed to be moved to ]. Baiji was a disambig page but has now been moved to ] so that Chinese River Dolphin can take its place. Could someone please move Chinese River Dolphin to Baiji.
{{atop
| result = Done —&nbsp;]&nbsp;] 21:28, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
}}


Please carry out the moves at ]. I was attempting to close it, but got rate-limited because of the sheer number of pages in question. ]<sub>]<sub>]</sub></sub> (]/]) 06:44, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
The Chinese River Dolphin is not an accepted English term, Baiji is.
:Doing... ] (]) 06:49, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
::And done. ] (]) 07:10, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== ] ==
Thanks ]]<sup>]</sup> 12:01, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
{{atop
| result = Done —&nbsp;]&nbsp;] 21:29, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
}}


Hi, This is now in the public domain in France, but I can't move this file to Commons because the first version is hidden. Please help. Thanks, ] (]) 14:19, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:umm the BBC uses "Chinese River Dolphin" http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/wildfacts/factfiles/66.shtml ] 13:20, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:], I've deleted the hidden revision, you should be able to move it now.<span id="Masem:1735741442015:WikipediaFTTCLNAdministrators&apos;_noticeboard" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;] (]) 14:24, 1 January 2025 (UTC)</span>
::And CNN call it 'Baiji' - . ]<i>::</i><small>]</small> 13:55, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== an obstacle to translation ==
:The Worldwide Fund for Nature (China) call it the '''Yangtze River Dolphin''', which has more Google hits than either of the other two names. . ]<i>::</i><small>]</small> 13:55, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
{{Atop|This does not require administrator intervention.--] (]) 16:09, 1 January 2025 (UTC)}}
::Baiji gets by far the most results on JStor (and everyone I looked at seems to be about the Dolphin) from academic journals. So um... an argument could be made pretty much any way. --] 15:28, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
::Also way more on Google Scholar. Honestly since all 3 terms are used, the pagename really isn't that critical... no need to rush into moving it just because the story just broke. A movewar would be a bad idea. --] 15:34, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
Everyone knows the news often gets things wrong, particularly when it involves anything slightly scientific. Google results overwhelmingly give as more common than or . The only reason news agencies use Chinese River Dolphin is so that the average punter can understand what it is in the headline. Since anyone looking at more information about it on wikipedia, the fact that it is actually called Baiji is probably the most important thing to know. list it as baiji, not Chinese River Dolphin and so do almost all others. The WWF should know about this stuff but again, are only putting it as Chinese River Dolphin so that the public are aware of where it is, really they should have it as baiji and then say that it is a river dolphin from the Yangtze in China.
Whats the problem here, its quite obvious it should be baiji. Just look at ] or ]: the most common name is used, even if it is from another language and then the other name that some people may know it as is listed. ]]<sup>]</sup> 11:54, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:Baiji gets more hits because it has multiple meanings. Search for "baiji + dolphin". ]<i>::</i><small>]</small> 12:32, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


I was going to translate the article ] into Persian. While translating, I noticed that the title of the article and some of its content about the Persian Misplaced Pages were not cited. I contacted the author (])of the article but have not received a satisfactory answer yet. Please look into the matter. ] (]) 16:03, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
== Pacific Western University debate has spilled into ]; Administrative oversight needed ==
{{Abot}}


== Incivility at ] ==
The debate on the content of ] has spilled into ]. One editor has claimed that ] and its subcategories were created to give ] the false appearance of accreditation. Since ] has a notice about action by the Misplaced Pages Foundation Office on the article, I think administrative oversight of the related category debate may be appropriate. ] 17:06, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:You probably want to drop ] a note as he is actively editing this article. --] 17:36, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


@] and to a lesser extent @] have been bickering in the talk page for a while now, and the reply chains are so long that they go off my phone's screen. DEB in particular has been noticeably passive aggressive in their comments, such as at me, at AWF, and at ]. Is this actionable? ] (]) 01:57, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
== Category:United Methodism ==


:This looks to me like it's covered by ]. ] ] 02:18, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
Could an administrator look at recent edits to ]? The category was turned into a redirect for ] following an undisputed nomination for renaming on ]. Since then, ] has added text and parent categories to ]. This seems to violate the spirit of turning the category into a redirect. It may be appropriate to discuss the issue with ]. ] 19:24, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:I have yet to dig through the very length discussions, but on the surface I can say that I'm glad to see it not turning into much of an edit war in the article itself, and remaining mostly on the talk page. Infact the only person who breached 2R's was someone you didn't mention, and interestingly was never warned, but I placed a soft warning on their talk page. As far as the specific diffs provided, I don't see anything in there which is all that problematic, unless you're deeply intrenched in the issue. I would proffer is that if someone says, in it's entirety {{tq|I am stating a fact.}} and you take offence to that, then you might need to back away from the discussion for a few days. ]&thinsp;] 02:47, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::{{tq|"...then you might need to back away from the discussion for a few days".}} You're probably right about that. ] (]) 02:58, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:This seems entirely unnecessary. ] (]) 03:13, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::Can you elaborate on which aspect of {{tq|this}} you are referring to that you believe is unnecessary? ]&thinsp;] 03:55, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:::By this, I mean bringing the issue to ANI. If I owe anyone an apology, I stand ready to give it, but @] hasn't really been involved in the discussion until very recently and has already escalated it here. ] (]) 03:59, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::::It doesn't matter how much someone has been involved in a discussion. If there's misconduct that's not clearly going to get resolved on its own (which I'm not confident saying either way here), then it's a public service, even a responsibility, for an editor to report it. ] (]) 05:58, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::::@] you can see my initial assessment of the situation above. However, I will say uninvolved editors are welcome to bring valid concerns to ANI. It is often far more helpful when someone outside of the situation brings it up here as it ends up being far more neutral. I also would suggest that you might also be too involved right now and need to back away for a few days. The biggest reason is that I believe you read right past Animal lover's and my response which ''basically didn't find you doing anything wrong''. I suggest that a cooling off period might be good for you as well. Not because you're currently doing anything wrong (because that conversation would look quite different), but rather that you're likely too invested in this topic right now to see rationally and objectively. ]&thinsp;] 06:18, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::It was not my intent to ignore those assessments, and I understand what you've said as far as uninvolved editors raising such issues (real or perceived). ] (]) 19:26, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Also, as a note, this isn't ANI... - ] <sub>]</sub> 07:09, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:Infact I don't know why such a simple infobox change discussion will resulted in endless arguments. And it happened in mutiple pages, like this ], this ], and now this Azerbaijan Airlines crash case there. And I'm afraid there would be other arguements in previous pages.
:But to be honest, I think I also have some responsibilities on this endless situation: I have known what to do to deal with such major changes, but I didn't really take any action. ] (]) 07:14, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::The whole "Accident vs Crash" thing has been going on for a while now. It pretty much goes nowhere every time. DEB gives a whole bunch of reasons why "accident" should be avoided, AWF gives a whole bunch of reasons why "accident" is perfectly fine, and it all repeats with every new ] article. I just recommended on DEB's talk page that they try to seek a wider consensus to break this endless cycle, because I for one am tired of seeing the same arguments over and over again with no progress. - ] <sub>]</sub><span style="color:#6B8E23">\</span><sup>]</sup> 08:02, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Infact you can check the talkpage I provided, you will find such arguments have happened on mutiple pages. ] (]) 08:09, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Since the regular editors in this topic area have proven that they are unable to resolve this utterly trivial terminology dispute among themselves, perhaps the best solution might be to topic ban every consistent advocate of "accident" and to topic ban every consistent advocate of "crash" from all articles about airplane mishaps, and let entirely uninvolved editors make a reasonable decision. Because endless bickering among entrenched advocates is disruptive. Topic bans could then be lifted on editors who explicitly agree to ] and drop the terminology issue forever. ] (]) 08:25, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::It's less "unable to resolve" and more "Dreameditsbrooklyn argues that using 'accident' is original research because the sources use 'crash'" and I wish I was joking. Your modest proposal probably ''would'' get some kind of result though! - ] <sub>]</sub> 08:27, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::Infact I have already suggested to delete this controversial value ], since it have not much actural use to show, and mostly have the same contents with the "Summary" value. And ironically, it has showed the available value on the doc page, but the example they showed on simply violate it! But since then nobody really talk about it yet. ] (]) 08:34, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::As someone who has consistently been on the side "accident is fine" of this argument (there really isn't an "accident/crash" binary here, just whether "accident" is original research), I think that's a bit extreme. I laid out a ] on DEB's talk page, which should hopefully help resolve the issue once and for all without the need for more drastic measures. - ] <sub>]</sub><span style="color:#6B8E23">\</span><sup>]</sup> 09:20, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::Respectfully, the descriptions aren't trivial. A "crash" describes what happened. An "accident" implies someone made a mistake with no real culpability. An "incident" implies some sort of interaction or series of events. I have no specific dog in this fight and I don't believe I've voiced any significant opinion on the matter here or elsewhere, but such a description is not trivial when we are trying to be ] in our descriptions. In this particular case, it very much appears that the act was deliberate and the airliner was acceptable collateral damage (in their opinion). At a minimum, it's disputed. As such, "accident" isn't appropriate as it is at least alleged to be a deliberate act or negligence. "Incident" or "crash" would be more neutral. If we say "accident" it implies no one should be blamed and fails ]. ] (]) 22:22, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::] (the context of aviation has been from at least one discussion on the matter). We could go over whether "accident" actually implies no culpability in the context of aviation all day, but this is not the place to do it. As I stated numerous times, we need to formally establish a project-wide consensus about this, and ] is a good place to start. As for this discussion, I think it can be closed as the issue in question is very minor. - ] <sub>]</sub><span style="color:#6B8E23">\</span><sup>]</sup> 22:42, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::WP:MOS says: {{tq|If any contradiction arises, this page has precedence.}}
:::::::WP:AT, which follows MOS says: {{tq|Generally, article titles are based on what the subject is called in reliable sources.}}
:::::::The very broad majority of RS call this a crash. Why, in this case, doesn't this apply? Because some editors disagree? I am honestly asking. I don't see a policy which overrules MOS here. Also, I'll hold off on any new discussions on this until things have concluded here and at the article talk page, where the same editor who started this discussion opened an RfC on the topic. ] (]) 22:58, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::::I will not continue this off-topic discussion here. If the same perceived problem is happening across multiple ] articles, then the discussion needs to be moved there to finally end the cycle and come to a consensus. - ] <sub>]</sub><span style="color:#6B8E23">\</span><sup>]</sup> 23:06, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::I'm not sure WP:AATF is the correct venue to continue the discussion for a number of reasons, which I will spare going into here. ] (]) 23:14, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::{{tqq|The very broad majority of RS call this a crash. Why, in this case, doesn't this apply?}} Because ] don't need to "follow the sources", and insisting that they do is ]. - ] <sub>]</sub> 01:38, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Others have rejected this as the venue to hold this debate, and I will too. I suggest you follow your own advice and drop the stick, at least for now. ] (]) 02:06, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::{{tqq|An "accident" implies someone made a mistake with no real culpability}} No, it does not. The International Civil Aviation Organization, which is somewhat of an authority on the matter, defines an 'aircraft accident' as {{tqq|Accident. An occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft ..., in which: a) a person is fatally or seriously injured b) the aircraft sustains damage or structural failure c) the aircraft is missing or is completely inaccessible}}. Notice what isn't there - anything about mistakes or culapbility. {{ping|Buffs}} "Accident" is the official internationally recognized term for this sort of occurance, and is entirely neutral in use. Note that "incident" has a very specific term in aviation which is "an occurrence, other than an accident, associated with the operation of an aircraft that affects or could affect the safety of operation." {{ping|Dreameditsbrooklyn}} I'd suggest you ] and stop pushing this ] ]. - ] <sub>]</sub> 23:51, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Why do you think this jargon use should take precedence over the common meaning of the word? The word "accident" can be used in (at least) two senses, one of which involves a lack of intention -- the fact that the ICAO (who?) says that they use the word "accident" in only one of these senses isn't somehow magically binding on everyone else who uses the word in the context of aviation. Given the choice between a word with two ambiguous senses, one of which inappropriate, and a word that has only one relevant sense, it's obvious that the latter word will be clearer, isn't it? ] (]) 04:12, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::::]. The people whose job it is to establish these things for aviation. It's not the use of one word for the other that I have a problem with. It's the argument that, somehow, using "accident" constitutes original research ''when in fact it is the correct terminology'' - and in fact some of the suggested alternatives are explicitly ''incorrect'' terminology - is the problem. And no, its not "magically binding", but ] in the context of aviation is to refer to ''any'' crash as an "aviation accident", just like how if somebody deliberately rear-ends you in road rage it's still a "car accident" - it isn't ]. - ] <sub>]</sub> 09:25, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Do you think there was a car accident in New Orleans a few days ago? When you appeal to an organization like ICAO for what the meaning of a common word is, you are by definition using jargon. ] (]) 17:58, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::When you appeal to an expert for the meaning of a word in the context of what it's being used in, that's common sense. - ] <sub>]</sub> 21:59, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::It’s the very definition of the word jargon! No wonder people are finding you impossible to deal with. ] (]) 18:57, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::What is "an occurrence, other than an accident..." if "accident" includes "incidents"? Definition you're claiming here doesn't make a lot of sense. ] (]) 19:03, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::Accident =/= incident, which I believed was clear. - ] <sub>]</sub> 21:59, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Incident includes accidents AND intentional acts. ] (]) 18:34, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::Not , but this probably ''is'' something best not continued here I reckon. - ] <sub>]</sub> 18:40, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::I did not bring this up to ] to litigate whether to use "crash" or "accident". If you would like to litigate that, I have started a RfC on the Talk page. I brought this here to ask the admins to discuss whether <u>DEB's and AWF's behavior</u> is worth pursuing administrator action. ] (]) 01:09, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::Since you think this is an "utterly trivial terminology dispute" should I tag you in the RFC at WP:RS when I make it, or not? I don't wish to bother you if it's not important to you. ] (]) 22:31, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:I know this discussion is about conduct, not about the disagreement which prompted it, but I'll note that the other user named here and who has not responded has since changed instances of the word 'crash' to accident on other entries and has also since been of violating 3RR on the very entry which prompted this discussion. I've agreed to confine any further conversations to the talk page until a consensus is reached, wherever that may be. ] (]) 02:46, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
::On the very entry for a completely different reason regarding the use of the Aviation Safety Network but I concede that whilst I was within the limits of 3RR, it probably shouldn't have gotten to that point in the first place. {{Tq|... since changed several instances of the word 'crash' to accident on other entries}} – The only changes made were either related to a change within the infobox to stay consistent with ] as the occurrence type on the aforementioned article stated {{Tq|Airliner crash}}, or related to changes regarding short descriptions since they were changed to be phrased in a way that is not usually done. It's not like I removed every single mention of the word ''crash'' and replaced it with ''accident''. But back to the main topic, I'm willing to drop the issue as long as it's not an problem to use ''accident'' in articles relating to aviation. ] (]) 03:40, 3 January 2025 (UTC)


Can we close this? The current discussion has next to nothing to do with the original issue and is best continued somewhere else. - ] <sub>]</sub><span style="color:#6B8E23">\</span><sup>]</sup> 19:03, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
== Huge backlog at ] ==


:Agreed. An admin got involved and simply continued off-topic discussion. ] (]) 21:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
Please fix, lots of admins required. Cheers, ] 21:28, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


== Request removal of PMR/Rollback ==
:There are a lot of images that have been tagged with ] this "template." It was created yesterday by {{User|Mecu}} and is being added to any personal-type photo, including those used on Wikipedians' user pages. It states that "The given reason is: Unencyclopedic and Misplaced Pages is not a free file host. The image appears to have no encyclopedic value and is not used on Misplaced Pages (excluding vandalism)." Is this appropriate or not? This isn't a speedy deletion criteria, so basically, the user has created policy and a matching template for the policy. ] 21:41, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
{{atop
::They aren't speedy deletion candidates. The images should be listed on ]. ] <sup>]</sup> 21:44, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
| result = Flags removed ]<sub>]<sub>]</sub></sub> (]/]) 22:52, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
}}


Hi, lately, I haven't been using my page-mover and rollback rights that often and I don't feel returning to the activity anytime soon. Can any admin remove these flags from my account. I relatively happen to support in file-renaming areas these days and have also decided to put in some efforts in this month's NPP backlog. So these rights should stay. Thank you. <small><sub><span style="color:SteelBlue;">Regards, </span></sub></small>] ] 10:19, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Note there is a discussion thread on the image speedy deletion criteria at ]. —]&nbsp;<sup>]</sup> 22:17, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:{{done}}. ] (]) 10:25, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== Insults, personal attacks and reverts of academic material ==
:::So what's the appropriate course of action here? Rollback the edits where Mecu added the tags? ] 21:49, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
{{atop|1=This appears to be done. - ] <sub>]</sub> 05:51, 7 January 2025 (UTC)}}
* {{la|Naomi Seibt}}
After reverting that included references to peer-reviewed papers in academic journals, @] posted the following on the Naomi Seibt talk page: ".". ] (]) 12:05, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:Yes, why haven't you done that? --] (]) 12:07, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:Article in question is a ] x3. The initial reverts of the IP's edits were for ], since the IP included all the material in question in the lead with no mention in the body of the article. Does {{u|FMSky}} need ] for using the term "trash analyses"? Maybe. However, the IP's actions lean into the ] category, and that may call for either direct sanctions against the anonymous editor or protection/sanctions on the article in question. —''']''' (]) 12:09, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::{{tq|Does FMSky need trouted for using the term "trash analyses"?}} How else would you describe the IPs additon of "In May 2020, she reiterated her dismissal of investigative evidence by endorsing" --] (]) 12:11, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:::You deleted all academic sources that claim that she is far-right, including other sources that have nothing to do with ]. ] (]) 12:14, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Which also indicates that you were more focused on reverting information you don't agree with, without first discussing it in the talk page. ] (]) 12:15, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::Edit: . ] (]) 12:15, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Put your new content into the body of the article instead of the lead. The lead is a summary of the body --] (]) 12:16, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Done. Now it’s a summary. ] (]) 12:20, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::::User continues to stuff the lead with info not found anywhere else . A block or article lock would be appreciated --] (]) 12:24, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::I will proceed with covering the whole lead in the rest of the page. Give me an hour or two. ] (]) 13:20, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::Start with the body. Do the lede last. And work at article talk to make sure you have consensus before making major changes, especially to the lede. ] (]) 13:22, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::The IP has come up with a more than sufficient number of reliable sources to back up the far right assertions (etc). However, the lead is not the place to stuff them: they should be in the body, and the lead should reflect that content. <b>]<small> + ] + ]</small></b> 14:25, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
* Not only is there a pattern of IP editors inserting large chunks of information to the intro about her right-wing ties, but I also see from 21 December that seemed to be at the start of the pattern, and that's from now-blocked user {{userlinks|FederalElection}}. At the least, that's a mitigating factor to excuse FMSky's heavy-handed reaction to these latest edits. At the most, it's grounds to revert the addition until a (new, civil, content-related) discussion at the talk page generates consensus to include it and/or protect the page—and that protection might need logged as CTOP enforcement. —''']''' (]) 12:23, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
*:You are consistently reverting edits that can be fully backed by reliable peer reviewed articles. You are refusing to acknowledge the scholarly literature. If any of you wanted to politely contribute to the article, you would not remove such sources. It’s not just the “chunk of information”, as you like to refer to it, but the constant removal of content you personally don’t agree with. Asking for the article to be locked is an effort to block others to edit, when the information provided is reliable. The bias extends to your plea to excuse FMSky’s insults. ] (]) 12:27, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
*::IP - from what FMSky is saying above it looks like the issue is that you're attempting to put material in the lede which is not elaborated upon within the body of the article. This is a manual of style issue. Maybe consider working at article talk to find an appropriate place within the article for your sources. ] (]) 13:13, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
*::Tread lightly, IP. Trying to link policy-based edits to personal bias is wading back into WP:ACCUSATIONOFMALICE. You will need to present strong evidence to back such accusations up. —''']''' (]) 13:16, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
*::I'll add that ] requires consensus before restoring material removed "on good-faith BLP objections". Even if the information was in the body, ] concerns arise with pretty much anything added to the lead. So if an editor feels material doesn't belong in the lead of a BLP, it's entirely reasonable to ask for there to be consensus before it's added back. ] (]) 09:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


I think everything's been said that needs to be said here. As long as ] now complies with the request to add the content to the body of the article before adding any summary to the lead, all users engage on the talk page, I don't think any admin action is necessary. ]] 13:37, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Images apart, CSD is still backlogged, guys! Best, ] 22:03, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
{{abot}}
:::::When is CSD ''not'' backlogged? The name CSD is a lie. Would anybody support a name change? ] <sup>]</sup> 22:07, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
::::Sounds like the best solution, but look at each edit before you roll them back. ] <sup>]</sup> 22:07, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::Should we name it "Category for Semi-fast deletion?" <nowiki>:)</nowiki> ---] <sup>(]/])</sup> 01:42, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::: What do people want, a decent verification that the CSD justification is valid and a reasonable attempt at avoiding unnecessary or bad-faith deletions, or quick results? Anyone who feels strongly motivated to patrol and reduce CSD backlog should head over to ]. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 13:47, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::::Should we be deleting Categories from from ] which do not appear at ] or is appearance on the 'Ready to delete' list a formality that is not necessary? --User:Ceyockey (<small>'']''</small>) 14:19, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


== Appeal of topic ban from 2018 ==
== ] ==
{{atop|There is consensus to remove this topic ban reached as part of an unblock. Closer's note: as a contentious topic if disruption were to happen again any uninvolved administrator could reimplement the topic ban. ] (]) 18:28, 3 January 2025 (UTC)}}
In January 2018 (I believe), I was topic banned from editing articles related to ] due to a number of idiotic edits that violated BLP. The UTRS ticket for this I believe is . In the time since then, I have demonstrated that I can edit Misplaced Pages constructively (I have 80,350 edits, a large number of which will be on BLP and BLP-related topics), and so I am requesting for this topic ban to be revoked. Whilst I do not plan to make large edits on Donald Trump articles, I would like to have the ability to edit articles on current US events from time to time e.g. to comment on them at ] where Trump-related article nominations often appear. Please could you consider removal of this editing restriction? Courtesy ping to {{U|Alex Shih}} who implemented the topic ban in the first place . ]] (]) 12:24, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:For what it's worth, Alex Shih was removed as an administrator in 2019 and has not edited since August, 2022. ] (]) 17:29, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:I'd generally support this. Joseph's topic ban from ITN/C and related pages was lifted more than a year ago, and there haven't been any problems in that area, so I have some optimism that this topic ban is also no longer needed. --] (]) 17:49, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::I'm a little concerned that after the big mess in 2018 they still managed to get themselves blocked again in 2022. But, yeah, as Floq says, they seem to have moved past that and have a year's worth of productive editing now. They also seem to understand what got them in trouble in the first place, so I'll cautiously endorse lifting the TBAN. It needs to be understood, however, that with this much history if there's more problems I don't expect there will be much willingness to extend any more ]. ] ] 21:10, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Endorse lifting TBAN per above. ] (]) 23:44, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Endorse removal of topic ban. ] <sub>(] / ])</sub> 02:09, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Endorse removal of topic ban per ]. ] (]) 02:27, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== User:SpiralWidget vandalizing pages ==
More eyes needed here, please, we have a batch of single-purpose accounts inflating this unaccredited university (categorised as a diploma mill in Senate testimony), which has included creating a list of "notable PWU people" (most of whom are, of course, not notable at all), adding PWU "degrees" to existing biographies without the relevant qualifier that the school is unaccredited, that kind of thing. It's all strongly reminiscent of ]. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 21:43, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
{{atop|1=Given , it appears the OP has withdrawn their complaint. - ] <sub>]</sub> 21:58, 3 January 2025 (UTC)}}
<s>I am reporting User:SpiralWidget for repeated vandalism on articles I have created or contributed to. Below is the evidence of their disruptive behavior:


== ] == === Evidence ===
1. – User:SpiralWidget removed sourced content and replaced it with false information. – This is when SpiralWidget first began vandalizing my contributions. He falsely alleged that simply creating a wikipedia article was to influence an election, and even posted a link to a ballotpedia page about an election in 2026 to encourage sabotaging the article. The reason this is concerning, is because the page is general information about Moliere Dimanche, an artist, a prison reform activist, and a litigant who accomplished a presidential case law and wrote a book. Nothing in the page promotes anything election related, and as can be seen in the link, SpiralWidget did not base the reason on anything other than unwarranted suspicions.


2.
Image:Cleft.jpg is apparently a bad image, only for use on pages it is specifically allowed. Despite the fact that on the ] page it lists the pages it can be used on (eg ]), on those pages it's only shown as a link rather than as an image. Can this be fixed? ] 22:26, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
– In this instance, SpiralWidget removed information from a discussion with Professor Tim Gilmore about Dimanche's high school teacher Mrs. Callahan, and a very effective way she helped students in. English class. Mrs. Callahan would give students key words from the play Caesar, and have them use them in an essay writing contest that was timed. Dimanche excelled at this and became an outstanding student in Mrs. Callahan's class. SpiralWidget took an issue that is not even contentious and used it to sabotage the article. It is sabotage because Caesar is a play that was actually written by Shakespeare. I don't think any reasonable person would find that as contentious because it was in an English class in high school, and Caesar is just one part of the lessons on Shakespeare. That's like if the interview was about Frankenstein, and the article stated that Dimanche excelled in studying Mary Shelley. It was unnecessary harassment.


3.
== Fair Use image - reproduction ==
– In this instance, SpiralWidget moved a redirect page to drafts after the article was pointed to a different article using Dimanche's full name instead of his nickname. His reason was so that there could be a discussion, but Misplaced Pages's guidance on this clearly states that a formal discussion is not necessary for redirects, and Misplaced Pages's deletion policy discourages deleting duplicate pages. It even encourages editors to delete entire text and replacing it with redirects. Yet, again, SpiralWidget took it upon himself to allege political motivations, and none of it is true.


4.
Currently theres a discussion occuring at ] about whether this image can be used on wikipedia under permission with a fair use claim.
- After SpiralWidget did that, he then nominated ] for deletion, again alleging that it had something to do with an election for governor in 2026. This is not true. The article talks about Dimanche's humble upbringing, his time spent in prison, his efforts in local politics in Orlando, his art, and a case law he helped accomplish in the 11th Circuit that set precedent regarding the ]. And even if it did, Misplaced Pages has many candidates for office. Misplaced Pages even displays election results, gains by party affiliation, laws introduced, and many other accolades. This is what makes me believe SpiralWidget has some type of animus for Mr. Dimanche, because he constantly makes an issue out of the election, when the article does not focus on that at all.


5.
The reason behind saying it cant is that the image can be reasonably reproduced, in this case the experiement has been running for 79 years at the time of the photo 73 years had elapsed. The occurance as photographed happens once somewhere between 8 and 12 years based on previous occurances, next occurance will be between 2008 and 2012 from this experiement.
- The vandalism didn't stop there. SpiralWidget then went to ] and nominated that page for deletion as well. Why, because Dimanche was a part of that case. He lied and said that the case was not notable, before asserting that it only made Dimanche look good. This is ridiculous and appears to be hateful. This is a case law, meaning it is not something Dimanche had control over at all. Also, the "Precedential Status" of the law is "Precedential". The case has been cited by judges all across the nation to resolve an additional 178 federal cases. To put that in perspective, ] was cited 2,341 times in resolving federal cases since 1973. This is approximately 46 citations per year. Since ] was passed it averages about 20 citations a year. So for SpiralWidget to lie and say that the case is not notable, when clearly, the judge of this country would state otherwise is nothing more than vandalism. Additionally, Misplaced Pages already found all of the related laws and indexed them accordingly.


] (]) is vandalizing my pages if they even mention Dimanche, and he is doing harm to genuine, good faith editing. I believe the articles about Dimanche are necessary and important because his prison experience is well documented, and his art is unusual. Renown scholars like Tim Gilmore and Nicole Fleetwood have given thoughtful analysis to his art, and the art is widely recognized. I don't think these articles should be nominated for deletion, and I would request that they be taken out of that nomination, and SpiralWidget be prohibited from further editing on the subject of Dimanche.
I'm not looking for comment on the image or its use. What I'm doing is using this example to question the current very narrow definition of "reasonably reproduced" that is resulting in editors running around tagging images without thought as to the practicalities of the reproduction.


6. List affected articles: ], ], etc.
I believe that there should be some requirement for the editor claiming it can be reproduce to actually demostrate or provide the reproduction. This is opposed to current situation that enables a person to make such a claim without any need to verify that claim. If editors dispute article text we require them to cite from reliable soures all facts yet we dont have the same requirement when applied to implementation of image copyright policies. ] 01:43, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


=== Context ===
: We don't get to choose what is or isn't fair use: courts do that. Our fair use policy reflects our current best estimation of what a court will consider fair use. And the burden of proof is always going to be on the uploader (because they're the person legally responsible) not one someone who questions that. You have to understand that Misplaced Pages already has the most liberal (indeed, foolhardy) idea of what a court will consider fair use. -- ] | ] 02:02, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
- This behavior has been recurring since SpiralWidget used the ballotpedia link the first time and persists today.
- I believe this violates Misplaced Pages’s policies and discourages editors from adding to Misplaced Pages.


I have notified the user on their talk page using ==Notice of noticeboard discussion==
::For the pitch drop experiment we have the specific permission from the author (who is the official keeper of the experiment) to use the image on Misplaced Pages. For some reason the author does not want to release the image under a free license. It is a typical case of the trade off between the quality of encyclopedia and the freeness of its content, the law has nothing related to it, this is simply the matter of our policies and preferences ] 03:07, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
] There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.<!--Template:Discussion notice--><!--Template:AN-notice-->. I kindly request administrative intervention to address this issue.


] (]) 18:36, 2 January 2025 (UTC)</s>
:::In this particular case, there is no legal issue because the copyright holder of the image has granted permission for us to use it. The only issue is one of Misplaced Pages policy. Replaceable fair use policy could allow use-by-permission images that are replaceable or supposedly replaceable, until that replacement is put on Misplaced Pages. —]→]&nbsp;&bull; 03:50, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


:First, you need to read and understand the definition of "vandalism" in ]. Next, you are not allowed to remove properly placed AfD notices until the AfD has been properly closed. I do not see anything improper in Spiralwidget's edits that you linked. I would advise you to drop this complaint and read over our ] before resuming editing. ] 18:47, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:: ] says "''Our fair use policy reflects our current best estimation of what a court will consider fair use.''" It is very very important to understand that this is totally false. Fair use differs from nation to nation and in America is far more liberal than what we allow at wikipedia. Do not treat Misplaced Pages fair use policy as refecting the law as it does not. Most important, understand most wikipedia talk about fair use is about images while most fair use law concerns text. Also understand that this is not settled law so no one has absolute answers regarding fair use. Even more complicating is that Misplaced Pages has recently changed from allowing fair use images that help the encyclopedia to not allowing such images if, because of wikipedia's current high profile, we can get the images under a free copyright license like GFDL. This is because Misplaced Pages is about free as in freedom not just free as in no cost. ] 03:55, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
::Thank you for your feedback. I understand that I should not remove AfD notices before they are officially closed, and I will follow the proper procedures moving forward. I will also review WP:Vandalism more thoroughly to ensure I’m taking the correct steps in addressing any inappropriate edits. I appreciate your advice and will proceed accordingly. ] (]) 18:54, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:Hi! I feel like I need to weigh in here on my perspective.
:*I was reviewing articles on ] back in September (EDIT: Turns out it was November. Seems like longer ago.) and stumbled upon ], which had been submitted by NovembersHeartbeat (Diff1 in the list above). I then found that he was running for Governor of Florida in 2026, and added a comment on the article pointing this out for future reviewers (as I did not feel strongly about the subject, and I am not so familiar with ], which was the main claim of notability).
:*Following this, NovembersHeartbeat responded here https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Draft%3AMoe_Dimanche&diff=1256694716&oldid=1256642401 and accused me of election interference.
:*I then commented on ] because I felt I needed to respond to this. NovembersHeartbeat then responded negatively, but eventually I decided to leave the issue and bookmark ] on my watchlist in order to follow the conversation from then on.
:*On 2 January, earlier today, I opened my Watchlist to see that ] had been moved to mainspace by NovembersHeartbeat. I then pressed the "revert" button, which I wrongly assumed would revert the article to draftspace. Turns out, this was not possible because NovembersHeartbeat had NOT published Moe Dimanche as an article; instead, he had made a new article, ], with a new name, in order to get past the AfC process (which was not going well for Dimanche at all...); as a result, the attempted reversion did not work at all. I then decided that, although I believe I was entitled to go for speedy deletion, I would nominate the article for deletion (I still have ] concerns and I don't think he passes ]) and also nominate ], which has also been created by NovembersHeartbeat recently.
:*In addition, I would like to question whether there is ] going on here. I think a pertinent recent example that looks suspicious to me is the upload of the image https://commons.wikimedia.org/File:Moliere_dimanche.png which was uploaded at 03:26, 1 January 2025 (i.e. 22:26 on 31 December Florida time) by user https://commons.wikimedia.org/User:Moe_Dimanche, who I am assuming is the subject himself in the flesh. This was then added to the article in this edit by NovembersHeartbeat https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Moliere_Dimanche&oldid=1266552816 on 04:40, 1 January 2025 (23:40 on 31 December Florida time). This is only slightly over an hour after the file itself was uploaded, at a time when most people were at a New Years Eve party. I am not making accusations here, but I am concerned that Dimanche is having communication with NovembersHeartbeat. Either that, or NovembersHeartbeat is indulging in ]... Would NovembersHeartbeat like to comment on this? ] (]) 19:05, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::Well, I was advised to drop the complaint, but if you still want answers, I don't mind telling you as I have told you before, I do not have any conflicts of interest. Your whole approach to this topic just seems personal. Even here, the content of the article is not in question, the facts are not in question, you just seem to believe that I am the subject. I made this complaint because I feel like what you are doing is harassment, and you might know the subject yourself or have some type of rivalry against him. I thought Misplaced Pages had a mechanism to prevent that, and I was wrong. I don't know what else to tell you. ] (]) 19:22, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:I checked diff 2 in the complaint, and Spiralwidget is correct: the source does not support the text. Spiralwidget was justified in removing it. ]&nbsp;] 22:08, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::"Mrs. Callahan would give students key words from the play Caesar, and have them use them in an essay writing contest that was timed. Dimanche excelled at this" is from NovHeartbeats, but none of this is in the source. How does November know so much about how these assignments worked? Was November in the classroom, or is November using sources the rest of us can't see? ] (]) 23:53, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:::The exact text from the source is {{quote|"And I had a really good English class back at West Orange High School in Orlando. Ms. Callahan. I couldn’t wait to get to her class. She’d give us a certain amount of time to write a story with keywords from a play we were reading, like Julius Caesar."}} The source says exactly what you just quoted. ] (]) 00:02, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
::::The source says nothing about whether he was good in the class ("excelled") nor does it say "he enjoyed studying Shakespeare". ]&nbsp;] 00:25, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
::::The source doesn't mention any contests as you seem to know about. And its an interview of Moliere, with two single line questions asked by the interviewer. It definitely doesn't support anything except Moliere saying he had a favorite class, which isn't encyclopedic. ] (]) 00:37, 3 January 2025 (UTC)


This is discussion is turning into a content dispute, which doesn't belong here. There's a bit of ] going on but right now I don't see a need for admin intervention for either editor. ]] 15:31, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I suspect that McWalter was simply generalising, but WAS' clarification is important to understanding our guidelines. ] 04:29, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


While there is a content dispute in play here, I think behavior is a problem as well...but it's largely by the OP. Remarks like " is vandalizing '''my''' pages" ('''emphasis''' added). {{ping|NovembersHeartbeat}}, I would strongly advise that you read ], ], ], and ]. These aren't your pages. Anyone can edit them. If you have a disagreement, then bring it to the talk page. What you are describing as vandalism, is normal editing and disagreement; I would encourage you to ] as they are inherently hostile when unsubstantiated. This is a normal part of the collaborative editing process. If you don't, your complaints will not only be ignored, but ]. I understand that people may feel that some subjects aren't notable to get their own page and nominations for deletion can feel personal. I've weighed in for inclusion on the subject. Try not to take it personally. ] (]) 19:36, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
::::The specific example is a trigger only and the current example. What I'm asking is when an unsupported statement is made such as this case an editor has claimed a free image can be produced that the person making such a claim should have some onus to support such a claim. We rightly dont accept unsubstanciated claims in articles why should an unsubstanciated claim be aceptiable when implementing policy. ] 04:46, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== Repeated tool abuse by ] ==
:::::As has been mentioned above, if one wants to republish unfreely licensed material on Wikimedia servers, the onus is on you to establish that it meets our criteria for doing so. We're going to be conservative about this. If this seems arbitrary or confusing to you, I'm sorry, but there is really no chance that we are going to ask for a citation from a reliable source when an editor expresses concern that a fair use claim isn't compelling. ] 04:57, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
{{atop|Not tool abuse. The IPv6 editor should discuss this with FlightTime, not ANI ] ] 06:45, 3 January 2025 (UTC)}}
I have been working on the article ] with a view to possibly improving it to featured article status at some point in the future. At this point, the edits are mostly restructuring to bring the article into a shape that can then be further developed, depending what it still needs when that first step is done. {{U|FlightTime}} took exception to some edit I made between 22nd and 23rd of December , without clarifying exactly which edit they thought was problematic. We had , and . At that point, I believed we had cleared the air, and the situation would not repeat itself.


However, today, they of mine, all in one go, again without any explanation of which edit(s) they felt were problematic. Thus, they make it impossible to discuss or remedy what they felt was the problem. In my opinion, this constitutes tool abuse, and if they cannot improve their communication with IP users and ideally use the tools in a more targeted way, this is a problem for the community.
::::::Theres nothing confusing about an abitrary decision I'm sorry you cant see that I'm asking how could a policy be implemented when its based on an individuals unsubstanciated claim. I'm then also aking why such a policy exists. When you consider this is a regular occurance maybe the use of '''fair use'' images should not occur as is the case may other language wikipedia. ] 05:55, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


Thank you for your time and consideration, and any help in getting to a more constructive collaboration on this article.
:::::::My interpretation is that it is for the party asserting the claim of fair use to present reasonable arguments for why the image is not replaceable (or repeatable), and not the other way around. --] 08:49, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


] (]) 00:53, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Which is a fair assertion but once those assertions have been presented continued arguements should also have some burden of proof requirement, here in lies the issue. Image foo.jpg is being used under fair use editor A come along and says that fair use cant be applied because another image can be created. The uploader responds with the reason as to why it cant be yet editor A still maintains that it can be. Uploader again asserts that it cant and provides additional reasonings as to why, editor A still maintains that it can be quotes FU policy. Editor B agrees with the uploader assertions so questions editor A claim who just again quotes FU policy that a free image could be created. this circle continues. End result is a lot of very heated discussion spilling onto pages of AN, RFC, ARBCOM or even worse outside of wikipedia but provided that editor A is willing to continue quoting FU policy the issue is never resolved. Unlike any other content disputes there is no burden on the person making the accusations that the image doesnt comply with FU policy to support that claim. Normal end result is that the uploader gives up, leaves or reduces future contributions, editor A claims a victory image gets deleted and another article becomes abandoned without further improvement.
::::::::So what we have is policy thats damaging wikipedia either it needs to be changed to include a burden of proof on all parties for continued dispute or alternatively the continuation of fair use needs to be terminated. ] 15:43, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


: This is not tool abuse, you are being reverted with reasons, and you should discuss the matter with FlightTime. ] (]) 00:58, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Eh? You could make up a silly scenario like this for any policy on Misplaced Pages. The point is that once the uploader has provided reasons as to why the image would be irreplaceable, "just continuing to quote policy" will do Editor A no good; if they believe the reasons given are invalid, they should explain why. Now, if the reasons for irreplaceability advanced are clearly not compelling, it is possible that the image will be deleted whether or not A responds; if, on the other hand, the reasons are compelling and A fails to respond with counterarguments but instead just quotes policy, the image will likely be kept. --]<sup>]</sup> 16:51, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:I'm not sure what you mean {{tq|without any explanation}} as his clearly documents his reason as {{tq|Reverted good faith edits by 2A02:8071:184:4E80:0:0:0:EAC0 (talk): Unsourced, unexplained content removal, unsourced OR}}. Please note that he did assume good faith (not maliciousness), and that he appears at first glance correct that you were removing content without reason, and adding unsourced and/or original research to the article, which is not permitted. Please use the article talk page at: ] or talk to the editor directly on their talk page at ] and work on building consensus instead of readding the same or similar content to the article. ]&thinsp;] 01:12, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
::Again, which are the pieces that you are now objecting to? We are talking about 17 edits, so please be specific! Thank you. ] (]) 06:19, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== Emoji redirect ==
On ] someone has just pointed to the following pics at Flickr , , which prove that it ''is'' possible for the general public to take pictures of the experiment. Unfortunately these particular images are all rights reserved, so we can't use them either, but as far as I'm concerned they prove conclusively that the image we have ''is'' replaceable. —]] 21:37, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
{{atop|👌 - ] <sub>]</sub> 05:33, 3 January 2025 (UTC)}}
Was trying to create ] as a redirect to ]; the film does not actually have a title and was represented in posters by the ] aka the ]. Apparently the emojis are on a blacklist, it would be great if someone can create this rd, thanks. ] (]) 01:35, 3 January 2025 (UTC)


:{{Done}}. ]<sub>]<sub>]</sub></sub> (]/]) 01:48, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
== ] ==
{{abot}}


== Topic ban appeal ==
This case is now closed and the results have been published at the link above.


Hello, I have a topic ban that is approaching one year old on "undiscussed moves, move discussions, deletion discussions, and racial issues broadly construed (including topics associated with the Confederate States of America)". I would like an opportunity to contribute to these topics again. I have been fairly inactive since then but I have edited a few articles without issue. Thank you. ] (]) 04:36, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
For misuse of his administrative tools and failure to relate appropriately with other administrators, MONGO is desysopped. For misuse of his administrative tools, as well as disruptive conduct in edit warring and incivility, Seabhcan is desysopped. Seabhcan is placed on standard personal attack parole for one year. He may be briefly blocked by any administrator for any edit which is deemed to be a personal attack or incivility for up to 24 hours. All blocks to be logged at ].


:I'll kick off by asking the standard two questions: (1) please explain in your own words why you were topic banned; (2) do you have anything to say to convince everyone those same issues won't occur again? ]] 14:01, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
For the Arbitration Committee --] 08:08, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
::I was topic banned for not assuming good faith and making an allegation that someone was using a sockpuppet when I was unable to provide substantial evidence. The topic ban was appealable after 3 months but I stepped away for almost a year. I am ready to discuss these topics respectfully and understand the importance of patience and communication. ANI should be a last resort. ] (]) 18:29, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Can you provide a link to the discussion where this topic ban was imposed? Thank you. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 04:05, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Found it. ]. ] <sup>(]) (])</sup> 04:35, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::Thank you. That is helpful to have. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 07:19, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:* I '''support lifting the ban.''' DI's talk page makes for interesting reading, it shows quite a remarkable change in attitude over a period of a few years, and I believe that's genuine. ]] 08:58, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
* '''Oppose lifting the topic ban''' I think being warned for making edits that violating a topic ban, then being almost completely inactive for six months, and then coming back and asking for it to be lifted and that passing sets a horrible example. ] ] 06:31, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
*:It seemed like a good idea to step away from the site for a time. I was receptive to the warning, even though it was not from an admin, and stopped editing in that area entirely. These are the edits in question: I just forgot that I had to appeal the topic ban here first and haven't gotten around to it until now. It should be noted that the first edit merely restored a previous RFC that had been ignored and the last two were minor changes to articles that have since been restored.
*:I have never made a different account or tried to dishonestly avoid the topic ban and I never will. All I ask is that you ] and give me a chance to show that I can contribute collaboratively and have matured. ] (]) 21:51, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
* Only 106 edits since unblocking (including the unblocking), of which includes apparently no edits to article talkpages, which is where a lot of the issues emerged. There's not much to really evaluate change. ] (]) 07:24, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
*:I have largely avoided getting involved in article talk pages in order to avoid violating the topic ban. If I were to get involved in these topics to demonstrate change, it would be in violation of the topic ban. Seems like a catch-22. ] (]) 20:51, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
*::There are literally millions of articles and talk pages not covered by your topic ban. You are expected to demonstrate change there. Why on earth do you think this makes it a catch-22 situation?!? --] (]) 22:06, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
*:::I have made plenty of edits to articles like ], ], ], and ] in the meantime without issue, there was no need to discuss it on the talk page. I have tried to make clear edit summaries and contribute to the encyclopedia. ] (]) 22:45, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
* '''Oppose lifting the topic ban'''. As per Chipmunkdavis, there have been very few edits since the unblock in February 2024. Although DesertInfo says "I have made plenty of edits", I just don't see enough here to justify lifting the topic ban. I'll also note that at least some of these edits came close to violating the topic ban (see ] for example). --] (]) 23:02, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
* '''Oppose at this time''' I appreciate that you walked away rather than risk violating the ban. that shows some recognition of the issue and willingness to try and do something about it. However, what we would want to see would be a decent track record of editing over a sustained period without any hint of violating the ban, and you are just not there yet. ] ] 23:15, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
*:I have edited multiple articles without issue. I don't understand why I would edit articles I'm not interested in/knowledgeable about. I don't want to add useless info or talk page comments for the sake of adding it. I have tried to contribute to articles I know something about. The topic ban is very broad and could reasonably be argued to cover most history/politics subjects.
*:I made a genuine mistake half a year ago that was not egregious and did not violate the topic ban, only coming close. When reminded of the topic ban, I stopped immediately. The topic ban was appealable after 3 months. I was told to step away from editing entirely for a long period of time and I did:
*:This ban has been in place been in place since 2022, over 3 years. A lot has changed and I have matured greatly. ] (]) 23:36, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
*::The topic ban is not so broad as to cut off most of en.wiki. Aside from the move and deletion restrictions, which are technical and do not restrict editing from any particular page, the topic ban is just "racial issues broadly construed". Do you really feel that this covers every article you are either interested in or knowledgeable about? Do you really feel you can't participate in talkpages without infringing on this? ] (]) 01:50, 8 January 2025 (UTC)


== Request to Fix Redirect Title: Camden stewart ==
== ] ==
{{atop|1=Looks like this is done. - ] <sub>]</sub> 18:39, 4 January 2025 (UTC)}}
Hi, I need help correcting the capitalisation of the redirect "Camden stewart" to "Camden Stewart" as the surname is improperly lowercase. I cannot make the change myself because redirects require admin intervention for title corrections. Could an admin please assist? Thank you! ] (]) 05:19, 3 January 2025 (UTC)


:How many redirects are you making? I see a lot of activity today. —&nbsp;]&nbsp;] 05:25, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
I just indefinitely blocked as a sockpuppet of the above. I extended to 3 months the block on Rugby 666 for sockpuppetry and personal attacks . ] ] 13:59, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
::Thanks for your response! I’m just setting up a few redirects to make it easier for people to find Camdenmusique's article, like ''Camden Stewart'' or ''Camden Music''. Let me know if anything needs adjusting, appreciate your help!" ] (]) 05:30, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:@]: I have moved the article to draftspace at ]. If you have a ] with Camden Bonsu-Stewart (which I suspect that you may since you are ] and you ] his professional headshot), you must declare it ]. You should also not republish the article until it has been reviewed by an experienced editor at ]. ] (]/]) 05:30, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you for your feedback! ] (]) 08:09, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== Andra Febrian report ==
== Unsourced images added by ] ==
"Andra Febrian" is disrupting many edits, I have seen many deleted edits by this user, and I would like to report the user for causing many ]s. The edits unreasonably reverted by this user is very disruptive to me, as I only intend for useful contributions. The user has:
- caused many edit wars <br/>
- deleted citations along with deleting correct claims <br/>
- not been cooperative (wikipedia's ]) on many pages that good-] edits have occurred on <br/>
- not explained deletions of citations in a way that other users have been made upset. <br/>
I request that the user is warned.
] <!--Template:Undated--><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added 22:13, 3 January 2025 (UTC)</small>
:First: the notice at the top of the page clearly says to place new sections at the bottom of the page, which I have now done for you. Second: you need to provide ] for the edits you are complaining about. Third, you were supposed to notify Andra Febrian per the instructions at the top of the page. Another user has done so for you. - ] 00:06, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:@]: please sign your comments using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>, which will add a timestamp. Additionally, I reverted your edits to ] and to ] because you are changing information in articles without citing ]. You must cite sources when you add or change information in articles. ] (]/]) 00:20, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
::] just filed a new complaint at ANEW and made the exact same mistakes as they did here. I advised them to stop posting complaints on noticeboards until they can follow the instructions. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 07:18, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:::FWIW, I have a feeling that HiLux Duck is a sockpuppet of ], but I am holding back until they give themselves enough rope to hang. Same obsession with defining overall lengths for various car classifications and edit warring at length over them. <span style="background:#ff0000;font-family:Times New Roman;">]]</span> 00:55, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
::::I'm always impressed when editors can recall editing habits of editors that were blocked years ago. I guess I lack the longterm memory to keep track of sockpuppet habits. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 04:14, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|Liz}} MrDavr actually got under my skin at one point; otherwise I probably wouldn't have noticed. Thanks, <span style="background:#ff0000;font-family:Times New Roman;">]]</span> 02:04, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::Looking into this {{duck}} (a HiLux ]?) because yeah, this is ''exactly'' the same editing pattern. Same username pattern as a number of MrDavr socks too (car names/variations thereof - ]). - ] <sub>]</sub> 09:49, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::@] - ] (]) 15:23, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Most likely yes, I knew that the his editing patterns matched an old blocked user but didn't remember the name. ] (]) 16:14, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::::It's also interesting to note that HiLux duck's user page claims they've been on Misplaced Pages since 2019, and having compared edits more extensively I've seen enough and gone ahead and blocked per ]. - ] <sub>]</sub> 20:20, 6 January 2025 (UTC)


=== Mr.Choppers warning request ===
] has recently uploaded about 600 copyright images with no fair-use rationale or indication of source. As far as I can tell, they are mostly low-resolution logos that would probably pass for fair use as long as the source and a basic rationale are included. But it's probably going to take a long time to sort this all out. I thought I'd bring it to someone's attention here in case there's something that can be done to help. (If these images all came from the same source, then maybe they could be tagged automatically?). I've left a list on his ]. -- ] ] 17:02, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:: <small> This was (again) posted at the top instead of the bottom; it seems like it is not really a separate issue. ] (]) 01:54, 7 January 2025 (UTC)</small>
User:Mr.Choppers has not followed the ] rules because: <br/>
'''-''' calling me a "nuisance" because of own ] supporting others in ] that have nothing to do with the user. ] ] <br/>
'''-''' responded fairly aggressively to another user (me) without me being aggressive back or starting this edit war <br/>
'''-''' note that he also called me a "sockpuppet of a banned user" without reliable clarification, also biased on that <br/>
'''-''' also note the user had not informed me and used aggression to support own claims. <br/>
<br/>
I would like to inform that this user has unnecessarily used aggression and claimed things not there. Kind regards, ] (]) 2:29, 6 January 2025 (GMT+12)
:Missed this because it was at the top. Very unlikely to have merit and is moot now, given the block. - ] <sub>]</sub> 02:24, 7 January 2025 (UTC)


== Proposal to vacate ECR remedy of Armenia and Azerbaijan ==
== Recent events ==
{{atop|1=Already closed. - ] <sub>]</sub> 01:36, 4 January 2025 (UTC)}}
There is a proposal to vacate the ECR remedy of ] at {{slink|Misplaced Pages:Village pump (proposals)|Remove Armenia-Azerbaijan general community sanctions}}. ] (]/]) 00:53, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== Cannot draftify page ==
Recently we have seen MONGO and Seabhcan desysopped, ] "counselled" and I've seen some other issues here and on the mailing lists which give pause for thought. I wonder, do we need to have some place where admins can let off steam and get support without the whole world looking on? I note that the mediation committee have a private mailing list, I wonder if that might be an idea for admins. This is not to allow ] to work more effectively in secret, but to give a (hopefully) troll free environment for discussion of issues related to performance of admin duties. Another option is maybe a permanently protected noticeboard. Or maybe it's a crap idea, I don't know. Just thinking out loud, really, mainly because I think we (as admins) should really have been able to stop MONGO going off the rails, and I really feel we failed him. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 17:49, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
{{atop|1=Done. - ] <sub>]</sub> 18:38, 4 January 2025 (UTC)}}
:It might not be a horrid idea in theory, but openness is paramount to proceedings here. As a lowly editor, I'd need a lot of convincing that there's a reason admins can discuss things about my class of user in secret. --] <small>]</small> 17:50, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
I tried to draftify ] but a draft exists with the same name (and same content before I blanked it). Could an admin delete the draft so I can draftify the article? {{User:TheTechie/pp}} <span style="font-family:monospace; font-weight: bold"> <span style="color:ForestGreen;font-size:15px"> ]</span> (<span style="color:#324c80">she/they</span> {{pipe}} ]) </span> 00:59, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
::From another "lowly editor" - not a bad idea, but unless I'm very much mistaken isn't there already an admin-only IRC channel? People do occasionally need a place to blow off steam, though, which is fair enough and can't really be a bad thing. Best, ] 17:55, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:{{done}} {{ping|TheTechie}} ] has been deleted. — ] <sup>]</sup> 01:26, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:::(''edit conflict'') ::Sometimes altercations on Misplaced Pages spill into the 'real world'; if it appears that events might be leading that way, the ability to discuss off-wiki is something that can resolve matters without catastrophic outcomes. If it's just a matter of bad behavior and civility and hot heads that need to cool, that's one thing; but if people are looking for one another in the real world to face off or confront or attacking through family and profession - that's when additional tools and processes are needed to keep things from turning from a simmer to a boil-over. I don't know the details of the desysopping that Guy mentioned above, so I'm not sure if this exact thing happened in those cases or not. --User:Ceyockey (<small>'']''</small>) 17:58, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
{{abot}}
::The problem with IRC is that it is transient. Mailing lists and Wiki pages can be accessed by multiple people in different time zones (he said from GMT-land). <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 18:02, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Ooh, someone else on GMT! Rare being! Fair enough. Why not an admin mailing list - particularly given the discouragingly high rate of admin burn-out? Worse than all the junior tennis players I've seen over the years - which is saying something, trust me. ] 18:07, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
::::An admin mailing list sounds not too bad, as long as it is publically viewable. Otherwise I really dread "It was discussed on the mailing list" kind of decisions. Transparency is important. --]|] 18:22, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:Unfortunately, if you had a mailing list for admins that wasn't public (and if it were public, it wouldn't be a place for "blowing off steam," because it would be just like doing so here), the folks who howl about the "Admin Cabal" will have even more fuel for the fire than they do now. And we definitely don't need to offer up any more ammunition in that department. I admit, it would be great to give the admins a place where they can go off if they need to - but privacy in a project like this is a bit difficult to call for, I think. ] <small>]</small> 19:52, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


== Remove PCR flag ==
::There is nothing wrong with a private forum for admins, we already have an IRC channel. It is okay to talk in private as long as our actions are based on publicly disclosed information. The idea of a noticeboard that anyone can read but only admins can edit is a fine idea, with full transparency. I would love it. Though it's talk page should be unprotected so people can still comment in a non-disruptive manner. ]<small> <sup>(Need help? ])</sup></small> 20:00, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
{{atop|1=Flag run down. - ] <sub>]</sub> 18:38, 4 January 2025 (UTC)}}
Can an admin remove my Pending changes reviewer flag as I have not used it recently. Thanks <span style="font-family:monospace;font-weight:bold">]:&lt;]&gt;</span> 06:26, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:Done. ] (]) 06:40, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== "The Testifier" report ==
(''edit conflict'') Don't the problems being discussed here affect Admins and non-Admins alike? The distinction is that Admins have additional tools available to them, but the triggers, personalities, experience levels, and consequences for Misplaced Pages cross the Admin/non-Admin divide. Therefore, shouldn't there be a process for producing private discussions to resolve differences and 'blow off steam' that is accessible to all Wikipedians in some fashion? There isn't any need to create an Admin-only communications channel, because often the circumstances that Admins find themselves in that lead to explosive decompression involve non-Admins as well as Admins and communications that by definition excludes a party to discussion is not part of the solution, it's part of the problem. --User:Ceyockey (<small>'']''</small>) 20:04, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
{{Moved discussion to|Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#"The Testifier" report| ] (]/]) 18:06, 4 January 2025 (UTC)}}
:Well, don't you have some editors on Misplaced Pages with whom you feel slightly close and friendly? Like users you have worked well with? You can discuss that on each other's talk pages, e-mail each other, or go onto something like ]. There are so many options available for everyone. What about ]? There should be a messageboard where people can say anything they want, within reason without having to see it brought up against them. If they break policies dramatically there (like ] they'll be banded from the board... ] 20:08, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


== Problem with creating user talk page ==
The IRC admin channel really isn't that great for what Guy describes anyway... I wouldn't go there for support, for various reasons you'd be more likely to just get frustration and smart remarks. The list would actually have to be active admins only, not friends of admins, people who got de-sysopped, random people the list owners like, etc. However due to the obvious concerns, it might be a good idea to give a few trustworthy non-admins access (or read-only access)... Newyorkbrad, Badlydrawnjeff, Daniel Bryant, I dunno, whoever we could agree upon, to just ensure that the list doesn't get out of hand. --] 20:13, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
{{atop
::Ah, divide and rule. How will you decide which of us peons are trustworthy? ] 21:00, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
| result = CU blocked as sock by {{noping|Spicy}}. ] (]/]) 01:10, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:::We'll start by not considering anyone who's made comments like you just did. --] 21:15, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
}}
::::Just yes-men then? ] 21:23, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::Just people who wouldn't make every conversation we tried to have an annoying "admin abuse!!" episode. --] 21:48, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:That's a bit strange to say you don't like the current admin channel because of some of the non-admins who are in there, then you go on to list a few non-admins you'd let into your version of the channel that are even ''more'' controversial than the non-admins we currently have in there. --] 21:42, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
::Imagine what he'd say behind closed doors. d:-P --] <small>]</small> 21:55, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Ooh-whoo-whoo, a sysopery! An admin hive where we can hatch our evil cabal plans! Me likes...--] ] 20:52, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
::: I suspect that in principle anybody who asked nicely and is a "known face" would be allowed to subscribe (damn, is Newyorkbrad not an admin?), but only verified admins could write (so like a protected talk page). The difference as I see it it is that on Misplaced Pages you have to abide by various rules; although we can ], asking openly whether X is a spade could be taken as a civility violation, as would saying X is a spade and then having nine others immediately point out the crucial evidence you missed. I don't know, maybe it's a crap idea, but I have the strong feeling there should be at least one place where those of us who do sysoppery can put our feet up and know we won't be bearded by whichever nest of socks we're currently fighting. I keep coming back to the MONGO case, but also various other ArbCom cases, including WebEx and Min Zhu and more. Somewhere there should be a mechanism for finding out that you're going off the rails before the train crashes. It's a half-formed and possibly half-baked idea, which is why I brought it up for discussion. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 21:08, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
::::Brad has been refusing invitations to be nominated for months, so it is his own damn fault. ] 21:14, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::No special accommodations for me, please. My declinations have been purely a function of time-on-site and timing and that won't last forever (I won't say more out of respect for the no-advertising-one's-own-RfA norms). The others mentioned above would be strong candidates as well (I know each was unsuccessful once, but some of those issues have faded). ] 21:49, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


Hello, I'd like to get some help to create the talk page of user {{user|BFDIisNOTnotable}} to warn them against ] with {{tlsp|uw-ewsoft}} or a similar notice. Trying to create the page gives a notice that "bfdi" is in the title blacklist. I wonder how the user was allowed to create the account today, given that from what I can see, the blacklist should also affect usernames...? I obviously can't notify the user of this AN post on their talk page. ]&nbsp;(]) 14:01, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
In my opinion, issues which relate to how Misplaced Pages is managed need to be transparent, and at least readable by all, so I am opposed to the creation of a truly private admin mailing list. If you need to blow off steam, people should be encouraged to do that with their friends, but not through a global admin mailing list. By friends, I mean here either real world non-Wiki friends, or by emailing other Wikipedians whom they trust. If someone has been involved in Misplaced Pages long enough to be an administrator, I would hope that they would have found individuals that they felt they could turn to for help and advice. ] 21:12, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
*I agree completely with Dragons Flight on this matter. I admit that when I do go into the IRC channel it's to blow off steam, and because I know I can find one or two people whose judgement I trust, and who will be willing to listen. I also find that when I'm idling there I'll be approached, now and then, for the same reason (privately, not in the main channel). This is a useful function, but it shouldn't be formalized. As always, of course, this doesn't take the place of official discussion and any action taken on-wiki you should be capable of justifying on-wiki. ] ] 21:17, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
*We could easily set up a board where all can read but only admins can chat (just keep the page always protected). Transparent, yet with limited access. ] 21:34, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
::That actually would be less useful than a pure admins-only board (not that I am advocating that, I don't really have a view one way or the other). Any concerns that an admin had about "speaking out" would still exist, while at the same time a non-admin use with an issue or a comment would be unable to post it. ] 21:49, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


Something like this should have no connection to Misplaced Pages, or be controlled in any way by the foundation. The way to have this, if it is to be done, is for someone to go do it. Set something up privately and invite whoever you want to join. ] <sup>]</sup> 21:30, 17 December 2006 (UTC) :I have created the talk page. No idea why 'BFDI' is on the blacklist, and if so, why a user name by that was allowed - that's something for cleverer heads than mine... ]] 14:13, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
::I think it stands for "Battle for Dream Island". See ]. ] (]) 14:25, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, I wondered if it was linked to ]. ]] 14:32, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
::::As to the technical reason that the username could be created, the reason is that accounts are not actually created on this wiki. They are created globally. As a result, us blacklisting anything can't prevent account creation. ] ] 18:09, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::This particular account was ]. ] (]) 01:04, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== Administrators' newsletter – January 2025 ==
Admins are simply people with the extra tools. They're not a social group, nor a legitimate decision-making group inside Misplaced Pages. Further social segregation of admins (and this mailing list would be that) is not desirable.] | ] 21:37, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


] from the past month (December 2024).
::Everybody here has the right to talk to each other offline. I don't see any problem with an admin only mailing list. As I said before, decisions on the wiki should still be based on evidence on the wiki. ]<small> <sup>(Need help? ])</sup></small> 21:55, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


<div style="display: flex; flex-wrap: wrap">
:::I'm with Zocky on this one. I'm very much against an admin-only mailing list - admins are just people with access to a couple of extra buttons; we're not any better, nor more special, than every other user on Misplaced Pages, and we should not have a super secret mailing list that only admins can see. If it were visible to everyone else, but only admins could contribute (and by admins I mean ''current'' admins), I would be less opposed but still uneasy. The thought of arbitrary 'approved users' being allowed to contribute but not everyone, is an idea even worse than an admin-only mailing list. Either everyone or no one, don't start making subjective distinctions. ]<i>::</i><small>]</small> 10:07, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
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] '''Administrator changes'''
===An opinion===
:] ]
As someone who has trolled other websites (but '''not''' here), been mis-identified as a troll here due to associations elsewhere, and been dealt with in a way that would make a troll weep with joy, maybe my input would be of some help.
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] '''CheckUser changes'''
I think the problem is the attitude towards trolling: that trolls are "enemies" of Misplaced Pages. This is something I'm deriving based of one of ]'s blog posts. People treat them like enemies instead of just "problems", and this is what happens as a result:
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#They are "informed" - YOU ARE A TROLL. This will only make legit editors pissed, and will only give blatant trolls exactly what they're looking for. Any "subtle" troll is only going to rejoice as well, since if they're being subtle, this is going to cause arguments among the labeller and those who disagree.
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#People get angry - seems to be the biggest problem discussed in this thread. Trolls should just be prevented from disruption, people shouldn't get all angry over them. They end up taking it out on each other if they do. I've seen it happen here, livejournal, youtube, etc., and it's only because people get angry over it instead of just being apathetic.
]
#People get paranoid about trolls - causing lots of legit editors to get blocked for looking even slightly suspicious. Or if not blocked, yelled at and goaded into getting blocked.


] '''Oversight changes'''
So the problem isn't that trolls can see the discussion - as a wiki, that's just unavoidable - the problem is how it's dealt with IMO. I've been in IRC with numerous Misplaced Pages trolls of varying degrees and they're not discouraged or stopped by the methods Misplaced Pages admins use - their eyes light up like it's Christmas, in fact. Stop making a big deal out of "FIGHTING" trolling and just prevent them without recognition. ] looks awesome for this.
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And if Newyorkbrad, Daniel.Bryant, and badlydrawnjeff - all people I've seen in situations I've been involved in or IRC - are so "trusted", why not make them sysops? If I wasn't so unpopular I'd nominate Daniel.Bryant right now. BDJ too if it weren't for certain complications. ] 22:00, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
</div>
:Heh. ]|] 23:31, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:I already nominated Jeff, it didn't go down too well... <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 00:17, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
::That suggestion runs along the lines of my preference for avoiding ''the t-word''. I'm not fond of the idea of formalizing a cabalish chill space, although sometimes I've toyed with the idea of a humor page. If it weren't for ] I'd start ] akin to '']'' for times when I chuckle such as sockpuppets who refer to their blocked sockmasters in the first person and other self-defeating disruption such as this to which I replied with this. <font face="Verdana">]<sup>'']]''</sup></font> 00:23, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
::I'd say 80/26 is a very strong showing, especially considering circumstances that bizarrely weren't taken into effect. --] <small>]</small> 00:24, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Sheesh, it was just an offhand remark about non-admins I find generally trustworthy, I also implied even if this thing did hypothetically happen we'd choose then. I wasn't saying like "here are the 3 greatest non-admins on the server". --] 00:52, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


] '''Guideline and policy news'''
*I've never requested access to the admin IRC channel because I think it is inherently a bad idea... largely due to the same issues Zocky predicts for an admin mailing list above. I also agree that Misplaced Pages's 'standard response' to problems has gone astray... too often people take pride in 'stomping the vandals and trolls' when they should have been trying to get them to be positive contributors and just blocking them dispassionately when it became clear that wasn't going to happen. A 'place to blow off steam' accepts a priori that it is 'ok' to get steamed in the first place... it shouldn't be. That's what leads to 'meltdowns', 'going off the rails', et cetera... and any sort of 'release valve' for that is going to be a minor stopgap at best. Any time things get above the level of mild annoyance ought to be reason to walk away from that particular issue and do something else. Misplaced Pages is ridiculously huge. I couldn't do everything I would like to here even if I quit my job and worked on it every waking hour. There is ''always'' something else people could be doing instead of digging themselves deeper and deeper into a pit of anger. The idea that someone has to 'stand guard' over an article or subject is a poisonous and destructive one... let it go and there will '''always''' be someone else to step in and re-assert balance if need be. --] 13:01, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
* Following ], ] was adopted as a ].
* A ] is open to discuss whether admins should be advised to warn users rather than issue no-warning blocks to those who have posted promotional content outside of article space.
] '''Technical news'''
* The Nuke feature also now ] to the userpage of the user whose pages were deleted, and to the pages which were not selected for deletion, after page deletions are queued. This enables easier follow-up admin-actions.


] '''Arbitration'''
==The desysopping of MONGO==
* Following the ], the following editors have been elected to the Arbitration Committee: {{noping|CaptainEek}}, {{noping|Daniel}}, {{noping|Elli}}, {{noping|KrakatoaKatie}}, {{noping|Liz}}, {{noping|Primefac}}, {{noping|ScottishFinnishRadish}}, {{noping|Theleekycauldron}}, {{noping|Worm That Turned}}.
Isn't it normal practice, if not policy, for the closings of RfAs to be reported here? Should I be reading some sinister reasons into it not having been done in this case? ]|] 20:30, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


] '''Miscellaneous'''
:Huh? It's a ] this one. --]|] 20:32, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
* A ] is happening in January 2025 to reduce the number of unreviewed articles and redirects in the ]. ]


----
:: Conti beat me to it, but it is right above. ] <sup>]</sup> 20:35, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
{{center|{{flatlist|
* ]
* ]
* ]
}}}}
<!--
-->{{center|1=<small>Sent by ] (]) 15:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)</small>}}
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== user:Uwappa: refusal to engage with WP:BRD process, unfounded allegation of ] violation, unfounded vandalism allegation ==
::: what's the hell is desysopping? (My dictionaries do not have this word; I think it is a spelling mistake?) I wish to know what happened? -- ] 20:39, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
{{archive top|result=I have indefinitely blocked Uwappa per ]. Whilst the legal threat pointed out by multiple editors may be very vague, it certainly is designed to have a chilling effect, and Uwappa has confirmed this with addition to the section. Quite apart from that, we have persistent edit-warring, meritless claims of vandalism against others, and there is a limit to which an editor who thinks all of this is a big joke can be allowed to waste everybody else's time. They can explain themselves in an unblock request if they so desire. ] 22:57, 6 January 2025 (UTC)}}
:::: It's a wikipedia-ism for the most part, although sysop is a longstanding computer term, see the ] I suppose. "To Sysop" is to give someone administrator access, which means adding a +sysop flag. So "To de-sysop" (or just desysop) is to remove that access. --] 20:42, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
repost from archive:
:::: "Desysopping" =no longer one of the ]. -- ] 20:46, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
::::: When I was newish it took me a few days to figure out that "sysop" is a synonym for "administrator" here. See ]. ] 20:48, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:I apologize. Somehow I missed it while looking thru the Table of Contents. ]|] 20:45, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
::Understandable, if you were looking for "MONGO", because the case is captioned after Seabhcan. ] 20:48, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


The content disagreement behind this report is trivial in the overall scope of Misplaced Pages (although the articles affected are subject to ]), but the editor behaviour is not. My reason to bring this case to ANI is that ] rejects some basic principles of the project: ] means that a bold edit may be reverted to the '']'' and goes on to say {{tq|don't restore your bold edit, don't ] to this part of the page, don't engage in ], and don't start any of the larger ] processes. Talk to that one person until the two of you have reached an agreement.}} Despite having been reminded about BRD after their first immediate counter-revert, they responded to the reversion to the ''sqa'' with another counter-revert and, after another editor reinstated the ''sqa'', counter-reverted again. At no stage did they attempt to engage in BRD discussion. Both I and the other editor attempted to engage with them at their talk page: Uwappa characterises my explanation as a personal attack. On another page, Uwappa reverted an edit where I suppressed the questioned <s>material</s> template, declaring it "vandalism" in the edit summary. I recognise the rubric at BRD that says {{tq|BRD is optional, but complying with ''']''' and ''']''' is mandatory}} but Uwappa has done neither.
: Incidentally, as I write, both are technically still admins (, ). As far as I can tell, no (legitimate) request has been made on ]. -- ] | ] 21:02, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
::They have been desysopped for about 22 hours now, the notice went striaght into the ] ] 21:17, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:::How come it doesn't show up in the rights log? Database lag? -- ] | ] 21:21, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
::::Steward actions are recorded in the Meta rights log e.g. . ] 21:24, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
::::It's . ] 21:26, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


I consider my escalating this to ANI to be a failure of negotiating skill on my part but, while Uwappa refuses to engage, I am left with no choice. Allowing a few days for logic to intervene has not been fruitful. With great reluctance, because Uwappa has made valuable contributions, I have to ask that they be blocked until they acknowledge and commit to respect the principles that underlie BRD, ] and ].
I am not an admin anymore...my last admin action was a speedy deletion--] 21:49, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:Would you like me to block anybody for you, dear? ] | ] 21:57, 17 December 2006 (UTC).
::Anybody I can have a word with, MONGO? Which way Tokyo? ] | ] 22:00, 17 December 2006 (UTC).


'''Diffs:''' ''(all timestamps UTC. NB that I am in England => UTC+00:00, Uwappa is in Australia => UTC+10:00 ) ''
== A little AfD help, please. ==
* : Uwappa replaces {{tl|Body roundness index}} with a substantially changed new version
* : JMF (me) reverts to the previous version, with edit summary "sorry but this version is not ready for release. I will explain at talk page."
* : JMF opens ] at template talk page (and leaves notifications at the talk pages of the articles that invoke the template).
* : Uwappa responds minimally at template talk page. {{midsize|] ]}}
* : Uwappa counter-reverts to their new version of the template, no edit summary.
* JMF reverts the counter reversion with edit summary "see WP:BRD: when BRD is invoked, the status quo ante must persist until consensus is reached"
* : Uwappa counter-reverts the template again, no edit summary.
* : at ], JMF advises Uwappa of the BRD convention.
* : {{u|Zefr}} contributes to BRD debate.
* : At Uwappa's talk page, JMF notifies Uwappa of edit-warring using {{tl|uw-editwar}} with edit summary "I advise strongly that you self-revert immediately, otherwise I shall have no choice but to escalate."
* At ], JMF comments out invocation of the template, with edit summary "use of template suspended pending dispute resolution . See talk page."
** (a series of reverts and counter reverts follow, in which Uwappa alleges vandalism by JMF. Neither party breaks 3RR.)
* At their talk page, Uwappa rejects the request to self-revert and invites escalation. Edit summary: "go for it".


* ] reverts the counter-reversion of the template to re-establish ''sqa''
A recently new Wikipedian (]) has decided to close some AfD topics despite not being an admin and replaced the articles which have unanimous delete results with the deletedarticle template. I've now told him about how the AfD system works and he's ok with this but I would please like a admin to help clean this mess up. Here are the articles affected by this:


* Uwappa reinstates their counter-reversion of the template.
* ]
* Uwappa contributes to the BRD discussion only to say "See also ] for escalation in progress.".
** ]
* JMF reverts to ''sqa'' again, with edit summary " rv to consensus version, pending BRD discussion. That is now also a WP:3RR violation." {{midsize|My 3RR challenge was not valid as reversion was outside the 24-hour window.}}
* ]
* At Uwappa's talk page, JMF advises Uwappa to take a break from editing.
** ]
* At their talk page, Uwappa alleges ] violation. I will leave it to others to decide whether the allegation has merit.
* ]
** ]
** ]
** ]
** ]


---
Thanks in advance. --&nbsp;]] 21:54, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
* At Uwappa's talk page, JMF suggests that we let the status quo stand and we all walk away without escalating to ANI.
:Got it.--] ] 21:55, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
* Uwappa replies to refuse de-escalation.
::Done. --]] 21:58, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Thankyou very much. --&nbsp;]] 21:59, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


As of 11:48 (UTC) on 30/12, the live version of the template is the one that has consensus support. --] (]) 11:59, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
== Where are all the admins tonight? ==


:Well, Uwappa hasn't edited on the project in 12 hours so it's pretty sage to assume they haven't seen this complaint yet. I'd like to hear their response and whether or not they are willing to collaborate before passing any judgment. Very through presentation of the dispute, easy to follow, so thank you for that. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 20:04, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
Speedy deletion isn't working very well tonight. Some blatant attack and nn articles I have speedy-tagged are still awaiting deletion:
::Yes, that is why I felt it important to make clear that our time zones are very widely spaced, which makes collaboration difficult in the best of circumstances. When they do see it, I would expect they will take some time offline to polish their response before posting it{{snd}} and consequently it is likely to be as long again before I respond. ] (]) 20:35, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]


Reposted above from archive, see ]
Also the 3RR violation I posted over an hour ago is unresolved - I'm not sure how long that usually takes though. ] 00:15, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


JMF suggested to add the following bit from my talk page:
:The only remaining article of your list above has a {{tl|hangon}} applied, and should go to AfD. ] 00:26, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


::::You escaped sanction because there were too many more egregious cases in the pipeline and it is a first offence. ANI does not adjudicate on content disputes, only on behaviour and compliance with fundamental principles. The evidence against you was really unarguable; I have seen quite a few cases and I know how they play out: if it had reached a conclusion, you would have been blocked until you acknowledged that you had gotten carried away in the heat of the moment, that you understand and accept ], ], ] and ], and that from now on you commit to respecting them. I strongly advise that you take the message anyway. --] (]) 12:47, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
== More Bobabobabo ==
:::::Mate, sorry I was late for the escalation party. End of the year was a madhouse here, both in business and with social activities.
:::::I was very happy you did escalate and will be happy to reply now that I have spare time available for WP. My business legal department is pretty exited about it, like a kid in a candy store, can't wait to put its teeth in WP rules and regulations.
:::::Would you like me to repost your escalation? ] (]) 12:52, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::I strongly advise that you read ] before you write another line. ] (]) 15:27, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
{{od}}
I am so sorry I was late to join this party. End of the year was a bit too hectic, did not leave much spare time for fun activities like WP.


] What would you like me to do now? ] (]) 04:54, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
I just received an e-mail from Zoe detailing an email that she received from the latest sockpuppet of this banned user who is once again asking that I be blocked. The text is as follows:
:It was not clear on your talk page, and it's even less clear here since you did not repost your response to JMF's last line there. You do explicitly retract the apparent legal threat that was made? - ] <sub>]</sub> 08:22, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
<pre>
::I did not make a legal threat. ] (]) 08:33, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
> May you please block the User: Ryulong, due to "collateral damage", I
:::@]: your reference to your "business legal team" could certainly be construed as a veiled one, at the very least. You are being asked to clarify by either confirming or retracting this. -- ] (]) 08:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
> recevived a email from Jimbo Wales to email admins to get her blocked.
:::{{tqq|My business legal department is pretty exited about it, like a kid in a candy store, can't wait to put its teeth in WP rules and regulations.}} is either a legal threat or indistinguishable from one. - ] <sub>]</sub> 09:33, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
> He has recently been emailing threating emails. I emailed him so he
::::No it is not a legal threat. It is about <b>"WP rules and regulations"</b>, not about law.
> could unblock me, but i recevived a email from him.
::::* To who would this be a threat?
</pre>
::::* Which law?
After which, there is a bastardization of an actual e-mail I sent this user after I found out she registered under "Ryulong" at the Japanese Misplaced Pages (but thanks to Suisui I have that account now), but with many embelishments. I urge any administrator who receives this e-mail to ignore it, as Zoe had, and simply just block the e-mail from this user who has been harassing me on- and off-wiki now.—] (]) 00:49, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
::::* In which country?
:Note that I have blocked the IP {{IPvandal|64.111.122.25}} indef as an open proxy on Ryulong's advice (on AIV). I have listed it at ] also to double check. If it turns out not to be one, then anyone feel free to unblock without having to consult me. -]<small>(]·]·])</small> 03:30, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
::::] (]) 09:57, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
::Well, all that Bobabobabo has been using lately are open proxies because we have blocked her home IP address.—] (]) 03:33, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::Why would a legal department be involved? — ] (]) 12:02, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::It certainly looks like a legal threat. ] (]) 14:24, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::@]. Why would a legal department be involved? — ] (]) 17:14, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Wow, I am glad you asked.
::::::* to have a bit of fun, take a break from the normal, pretty serious work. It will be like kids in a candy store.
::::::* It will be fun for me too. I can't wait to get going with this once the pandemonium calms down.
::::::* The accusation "user:Uwappa: refusal to engage" is utterly wrong.
::::::] (]) 22:47, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I'm not at all experienced in the legal world, but I don't think any professional legal team that you're paying money towards would ever be excited to save you from a website "like kids in a candy store". ] <sup>(]) (])</sup> 22:53, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::Why would a legal department be excited about you being reported on Misplaced Pages unless you're planning to use them in some way? ] <sup>(]) (])</sup> 17:14, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::I suspect, from context, that Uwappa was trying to suggest they would have assistance of a professional team in interrogating rules and regulations. But "I have the spend to wikilawyer this more than you can" isn't really all that much better than an outright legal threat. Between that and what surprises me is that they're not blocked yet frankly. ] (]) 17:23, 6 January 2025 (UTC)


:::I also received an e-mail containing an attached "message" allegedly sent by Ryulong, which I just ignored because it was so fully out of character. The message which preceded this obscenity-and-Pokemon-riddled document was a plea for me to block Ryulong -- for off-Wiki behavior. I'd forgotten about it until I saw this thread. Don't worry Ryulong, I have no intention of blocking you. :) ] ] 05:45, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
::::I did at one point send an e-mail to this individual at which I was at my breaking point, but it was nothing even close to what she's claiming I've said (I may have dropped ], but not as much as she makes it out to be).—] (]) 05:51, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


:and just to throw some more fuel on the bushfire, you have just accused me twice more of vandalism., . --] (]) 12:13, 6 January 2025 (UTC)


* I would say that for Uwappa to read this AN filing, reply to it (including something which could ''well'' be taken as a legal threat), and ''then'' immediately go back and the template for the fifth time (with an edit-summary of "Revert vandalism again", no less) shows a serious lack of self-awareness of the situation. ] 12:46, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
*:Putting aside the possible legal threat, if Uwappa's business legal department is involved it seems likely to be a cause of ] or at least a ] which really should have been declared which doesn't seem to have happened. This also means Uwappa shouldn't be editing the article directly. ] (]) 14:06, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
*::It’s hard to see a paid or COI element to the behaviour at {{tl|Body roundness index}}. — ] (]) 14:13, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
*:::It is fairly weird, but I can't see any reason a business legal department would have any interest unless the editor's activity relates to their business activity. ] (]) 14:27, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
*::::I expect it’s just empty talk to get an upper hand in the dispute. — ] (]) 14:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
*::::: Indeed. It is night where Uwappa is now, but my inclination is to see what reaction there is when they restart editing. If it is another revert or a lack of discussion, a block (or at least a prtial block) is indicated. ] 15:05, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
*::::::], how do you know where I am? Are you spying on me, disclosing personal information?
*::::::* Anybody in the room who ]?
*::::::* Reverted vandalism 3rd time in 24 hours. Anybody curious about what the vandalism is?
*::::::* Anybody in the room that wonders why I had to do the repost? Isn't that odd in combination with "user:Uwappa: refusal to engage with WP:BRD process"? Did anybody read ]?
*::::::* Did anybody read ] and ]?
*::::::* Did anybody spot any incompleteness in the accusations?
*::::::* Anybody interested in my to answers to the accusations?
*::::::] (]) 16:59, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::::* JMF above said you were in Australia and I had no reason to disbelieve him. If you aren't, it's irrelevant really, I was just pointing out that you may not edit for a few hours. No-one here is required to answer your questions, but I will; the point was that you invoked something that could be a legal threat {{tq|My business legal department is pretty exited about it ... can't wait to put its teeth in WP rules and regulations.}} You say that isn't a legal threat, well fine, but you haven't explained what it ''was''. Meanwhile, you're ''still'' edit-warring on the template and claiming that other's edits are vandalism, which they clearly aren't, which is why you can no longer edit it. Have I missed anything? ] 17:51, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::::* Again, that was either a legal threat or actions indistinguishable from a legal threat in an attempt to cause a ]. When called on it you have continually ] instead of straight-up saying "no, that was not a legal threat and I am not involving any legal actions in this". So to make it very clear: you need to clearly state that or be blocked per ]. - ] <sub>]</sub> 20:31, 6 January 2025 (UTC)


And just to add to the excitement, Uwappa has just repeated their allegation of vandalism against me and reverted to their preferred version of the template for the ''sixth'' time. (Their edit note adds ''3rd time in 24 hours'': are they boasting of a 3RR vio? {{u|Zefr}} undid their fourth attempt, I undid their fifth attempt, but possibly they misread the sequence.) --] (]) 17:41, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
==CSD backlog, again==
* Yes, I noticed. I have pblocked them indefinitely from the template, and reverted that edit myself so that no-one else is required to violate 3RR. ] 17:51, 6 January 2025 (UTC)


:* Ha ha ha, this is beyond ridiculous. {{Blockquote|text=An editor must not perform {{strong|more}} than three reverts on a single page whether involving the same or different material—within a {{strong|24-hour period}}.|source=]}}.
Now up to 306, which strikes me as a bit excessive. --] | ] 07:23, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
:* Suggestion: Add the following calculator to ]:
:Fair warning - about sixty-five of those are my {{]}} tags. I did a run-through of the ] and tagged any that said "It's a website" and nothing more. I skipped (I hope) any that had been to AfD of had any claim to notability, however small. <br/>] 07:42, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
:: Do we need a report that CSD is backlogged every morning? It's a time zone thing, and usually gets sorted fairly quickly once people wake up. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 08:32, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


{{calculator|id=edits|type=number|steps=1|size=3|default=3|min=0}}
== Neil SookDeo ==
{{calculator-hideifzero|formula=ifless(edits,3)|starthidden=1|is less than three.}}
{{calculator-hideifzero|formula=ifequal(edits,3)|is equal to three.}}
{{calculator-hideifzero|formula=ifgreater(edits,3)|starthidden=1|is more than three.}}


:* ] (]) 22:30, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
I discussed this with Naconkantari, but this may need a greater audience.
::* From ]; {{tq|Even without a 3RR violation, an administrator may still act if they believe a user's behavior constitutes edit warring}}. Which this quite obviously does, especially as you've reverted ''twice'' whilst this report was ongoing. Frankly, you're quite fortunate it was only a partial block. ] 22:41, 6 January 2025 (UTC)


:To admins, please ] Uwappa from further work on the calculator template for the body roundness index and waist-to-height ratio, and from further editing and talk page input on those articles. Uwappa has done admirable extensive work, but the simple calculator is finished and sufficient as it is. Uwappa has created voluminous ]/] talk page discussions for articles with under 50 watchers and few talk page discussants; few editors would read through those long posts, and few are engaged.
I caught the edits of an IP, {{IPuser|207.69.137.201}}, quoting some strange book as a reference for his edits to various articles. Then we found {{user|Neil SookDeo}}, the author of the doctoral thesis '''and''' book that he is using as a reference. I've tried to undo his edits (all of which were in good faith) per ]. However, since another user reverted me, I would like to ask if there is an actual conflict of interest with Neil SookDeo here, as all of his contributions are essentially spamming his book (and doctoral thesis).—] (]) 09:20, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
:In recent edits on templates, Uwappa reverts changes to the basic template as "vandalism". No, what we're saying is "leave it alone, take a rest, and come back in a few years when more clinical research is completed." ] (]) 18:21, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
{{ab}}
*This was closed, but...Uwappa's reply to their block was . Suggest revoking TPA. {{ping|Black Kite}} - ] <sub>]</sub> 06:15, 8 January 2025 (UTC)


== An inappropriate template being added to many pages ==
==] deleted ==
{{atop|1=Blocked from mainspace. - ] <sub>]</sub> 08:00, 8 January 2025 (UTC)}}
This page of photos of naked people was deleted from wikipedia, reason: violation of ] not encyclopedic
*{{userlinks|Oct13}}


A user is adding the "mortal sin" template to a large number of articles where it doesn't belong . I've reverted 3 of them that were added to the articles I have watchlisted. Could someone who knows how to do massive reverts take care of the others? Thanks. ] (]) 11:51, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
There was no ], it was just deleted.


:Discussion at ]. ] (]) 12:07, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
Before it was deleted ] wrote on ] that:
:I've reverted the addition of the template. <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 12:13, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
:The template as been deleted per ]. <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 12:35, 6 January 2025 (UTC)


A look through this editor's talk page shows that there is a wider issue with their editing about religion. Regarding this specific issue they have done something quite similar before (see ]) along with a number of articles they've written moved to draftspace and that have been nominated for deletion. Their contibution history also shows a significant portion of edits having been reverted. Before suggesting any action I'm keen to hear from {{u|Oct13}} on this. <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 12:35, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
{|border=1|
|
There's a folder in your user page called Wikiporn. There is a majority that it should be deleted. It is a rule reaker. Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia, not a porn site. I'm gonna delete it, mmm-kay? --] 13:06, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
:Not okay. What majority? Which rule? ] 14:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
::Well I haven't checked out the rule but I know this folder is breeaking the rules. Sorry if your ashamed of your folder, but it has gotta go. I'm deleting that folder, weather you like it or not. I must also say that your not the only one with this type of page. And look on my ] to see the majority.
::] 16:40, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
|}


:Btw, the last time Oct13 has ever edited a noticeboard was on June 6 2020. The last 2 times they edited a talk page were on February 17 2022 and April 15 2020. ] <sup>(]) (])</sup> 17:40, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
User:BlooWilt ].
::It also looks like the main thing they have done on their own talk pages in the last seven or eight years is to just repeatedly blank it. We may have a ] situation here. ] ] 01:45, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
This editor's editing looks to consist largely of making inappropriate edits, "sourced" if at all to unreliable sources, and perhaps in hopes that if enough of that is done, a few will slip by. As we're unlikely to hear from them, I'd be in favor of indefinitely blocking them, at the very least until they meaningfully engage regarding the problems with their editing. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 01:55, 8 January 2025 (UTC)


:I second that. As we wait here, they continue to edit, and all have been reverted. Perhaps an articlespace block until we get a satisfactory response?—&nbsp;]&nbsp;] 03:23, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
User:BlooWilt wrote: "I haven't checked out the rule but I know this folder is breeaking the rules" User:BlooWilt states himself that he hasn't checked out the rule yet, but he has faith (a belief based on no evidence) that ] is "breeaking" the rules.
::I've blocked them indefinitely from mainspace. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 05:36, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== Ottawahitech, requesting an appeal on their talk page restriction ==
So based on the "majority" (2 people) on User:BlooWilt "talk page", he got the user page deleted.
{{atop|1=User wants to use Misplaced Pages as a social network. ]. - ] <sub>]</sub> 22:05, 6 January 2025 (UTC)}}
Hello, I find that {{user|Ottawahitech}} has opened an appeal about their talk page restriction.


Can someone tell me where ] says that naked people are not encyclopedic?


As I have told the blocking admin, whom I am not pinging at their request, I do not wish to appeal my block. Before I was blocked at the discretion of Beeblebrox/Just Step Sideways I made about 75,000 "edits" to the English Misplaced Pages, and have continued contributing to other Wikimedia projects since my Block in 2017. I enjoy my recent volunteer activity more than I did my activity here, and do not ask for a complete unblock. However, I would still like to be able to communicate with fellow wikipedia editors and request the removal of the restrictions that have been imposed on my user-talk.<br>
I have pictures on my webpage, and they are okay, why can't Ewlyahoocom?
Notice to the admin handling this request: Just to let you know I am a very infrequent visitor to the English Misplaced Pages, and as such there is no urgency in acting on this request. Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 23:26, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


I'd copy them here. Though in my opinion, the restriction just came along commonly as the indef block. Hoping someone may like to review that. ] 15:09, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
Why was there no ]? Please reopen this page, and then there can be a proper ].


I seem to recall reading somewhere that wikipedia allows some nudity, like on the ] page, or ] page. I want policy please, not opinions. Best wishes, ] (]) 09:29, 18 December 2006 (UTC) :This might be better at ]. — ] (]) 15:12, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
::Moved per request] 15:13, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
:::What was Ottawahitech blocked for to begin with? My understanding is something to do with bad page creation attempts and / or edit warring at article talk. Is this correct? Has Ottawahitech demonstrated that they understand what they did was wrong? Because they appear to have been indeffed in 2017 and indefinite doesn't mean forever. If they've shown recognition of what led to their block and have committed not to repeat their mistakes then I'd be inclined to say this looks like a reasonable request. ] (]) 15:22, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Their previous block seemed a little bit like ] block, and I'm, auch, due to my interaction with them on another project, I'm inclining a not unblock. ] 15:29, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
:@]: why did you post this here? I didn't see Ottawa make a request for this to go to AN. Additionally, blocked means blocked. We don't let blocked editors use their talk page to shoot the shit with other editors. If Ottawa wants to chat with old friends, they can email each other. ] (]/]) 15:47, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
::I agree that we should decline this request. We're here to write an encyclopedia, not run a chat board. If Ottawahitech is interested in the social aspects of wikipedia, they should pursue other communication channels. Perhaps the ] is what they're looking for. ] ] 20:38, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Argh. I came here for an entirely different reason, but I am unsurprised to see the persistent ] behavior of this user continues on.
:::I blocked them in 2017 for persistent failure to abide by basic content policies, mainly being very experienced but still regularly creating pages that qualified for speedy deletion. I believe there was a discussion somewhere that led to it but I seem to have failed to note it in the block log. What I do recall is that they did not participate in that discussion.
:::Several months later another admin revoked talk pages access because they were using the page to chat, and to ask other users to proxy for them, while not addressing the block.
:::Four years later they contacted me via another WMF site and I did them the courtesy of re-instating their talk page for purposes of appealing their block. They then indicated they didn't want to do that, they just wanted talk page access back.
:::And that's still all they want. They don't ''want'' to rejoin this community as an editor. There's no point to even discussing this except to consider the possibility of re-revoking TP access to avoid further time wasting nonsense like this. ] ] 21:22, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
FTR, ] that led to the block of Ottawahitech. --'']'' <small>] ]</small> 21:58, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== ] backlog doin' great ==
:Fixed your links. ]] 09:31, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
::It was probably deleted as free webhosting. I disagree- these pages ''are'' useful for finding pictures for articles in my experience. An MfD would have been far more proper. ] <small>]</small> 09:37, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Your an ], can you reopen it please, or maybe talk to admin {{admin|1ne}} who deleted it? Best wishes, ] (]) 09:44, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


I know I ruffled some feathers with the way I approached this last month, but I'm pleased to report that as of this writing there are less than twenty pending unblock requests, many of those being CU blocks. Not that long ago the daily average was closer to eighty. I certainly did not do this alone, in fact I was ill for a week there and did basically nothing. Quite a number of admins and others pitched in in various ways over the past few weeks to move things along.
Given that userspace porn galleries are a contentious issue and there was '''a previous keep/no consensus MfD''' for this very page (]), I recommend that it be undeleted and re-MfDed. <span class="user-sig user-Quarl"><i>—] <sup>(])</sup> <small>2006-12-18 09:51Z</small></i></span>


That's great, but we should not get complacent, as that was what led to the backlog being so bad before. Thanks to everyone who helped get it to where it is now. I would again encourage any and all admins to pitch in whatever they can to keep this manageable. Any substantive review of an unblock request helps. Thanks again to ''everyone'' who helped make this suck a little less. ] ] 21:32, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
:As for policy ... ] states that ''articles may include objectionable text, images, or links if they are relevant to the content''. A user page is not in article space, however, and the applicable guideline is in ] - ''Your userpage is for anything that is compatible with the Misplaced Pages project'' - even though this is usually only loosely applied, a page called 'WikiPorn' is of no benefit to the encyclopaedia. Poor process, correct result. ]<i>::</i><small>]</small> 09:56, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
:Concur. ]] 09:57, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
::The problem with that is that valid pages, in user space, can be kept under joking titles. Take a look at how I title my talk page archives, for example. ] <small>]</small> 09:59, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
:I agree that these pages aren't benefitting Misplaced Pages, but a number of vocal Wikipedians apparently want them, and we all know what happened last time someone said (paraphrasing) "I know what's better for Misplaced Pages so screw process" to justify unilateral deletions in userspace. <span class="user-sig user-Quarl"><i>—] <sup>(])</sup> <small>2006-12-18 11:17Z</small></i></span>
::Maybe we should rename all user subpages with "porn" or something similar in the name so that do not show up when someone searches WP for the word "porn". If few people know a page exists, few will get upset, and the pages can continue to fly under the radar. ] 13:46, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


== Call for mentors ==
== Deleted page not appearing in logs? ==


There's a discussion at ] about extending the mentorship module to all new accounts. Presently, all new accounts are ''assigned'' a mentor, but only half of them receive the module that allows them to send questions to that mentor directly from the newcomer homepage. We'd like to extend the module access to ''all'' new accounts, but we're a bit short of the "ideal" number of mentors to do so - we're looking to get about 30 more. Posting here because the experienced users who haunt this noticeboard are likely to make good mentors. Basically the only requirement is "not jerk, has clue", with a side of "you should be someone who logs in frequently enough that your mentees won't feel ignored". Most of the questions you get are very easy to resolve. Some are harder. Every so often you get something actually fun. -- ] (]) 23:31, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
Dear administrator(s),
:I signed up sometime last year, and I'd guesstimate that I've received questions from maybe 10% of the accounts I'm assigned to mentor. So far (knock on wood) it hasn't been onerous at all. (Hoping that will encourage more editors to give it a try.) ]&nbsp;] 23:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
:Just signed up. I had played with the idea before, but given there are well over a hundred mentors and I don't hear much about it, I assumed it wasn't terribly active or in need of more people. ] (]) 03:40, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
::I've noticed I'm getting fewer questions, which I assume is because more mentors have signed up over time but the number of new accounts receiving the module has remained constant (it's a rare mentee who comes back and asks multiple questions over time). So it's true in a way that it didn't really need more people. I expect that you'll notice a significant boost when it goes to 100% and then a gradual decline again. -- ] (]) 14:31, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
:Time to add an option for three time the number of mentees assigned. ] (]) 07:01, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
:I signed up a week ago, and only got a single question asked of me. How many people are using the newcomer dashboard? There, I have found, aren't many users signing up and editing per day, per ListUsers, so I can't imagine there are very many people using the mentorship at all.
:I'd be curious to see what automatically assigning mentors would do to retention rates (maybe that's written somewhere). ''']]''' 17:49, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
::I've been "twice as many" assigned for quite awhile now (I think I was one of the first mentors when the program even launched) and I'd say it's not atypical to only get ten or so queries a month. You can look through my talk page archives if you want a more accurate number (also note that sometimes I revert mentee questions if they're obvious spam). ] ] 04:40, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I just counted and it looks like I've had 156 questions since February 2022. ] ] 04:56, 8 January 2025 (UTC)


==Discussion at ]==
A page that I started is no longer there. It was under 'unified performance management'.
]&nbsp;You are invited to join the discussion at ]. –] <small>(])</small> 10:16, 7 January 2025 (UTC)<!-- ] -->
I have just recreated this page as when I searched for it, it was not found.
So I checked the deletion logs and still no trace?


== Kansascitt1225 ban appeal ==
If there is a reason why it was deleted I would appreciate if someone told me why.
Also if it was deleted, should it not be coming up in the deletion log?


I am posting the following appeal on behalf of {{user21|Kansascitt1225}}, who is considered banned by the community per ]:
Thank-you in advance,


(keeping it short for WP:TLDR) Hi Misplaced Pages community, it has been over 1 year since I edited on Misplaced Pages without evading my block or breaking community rules. I would like to be given another chance to edit. I realized that my blocking was due to my behavior of creating multiple accounts and using them on the same page and creating issues during a disagreement. I was younger then and am now able to communicate more effectively with others. I intend to respect community rules and not be disruptive to the community. I was upset years ago when I mentioned Kansas City’s urban decay and it was reverted as false and I improperly reacted in a disruptive way that violated the community rules. The mistake I made which caused the disruptive behavior was that I genuinely thought people were reverting my edits due to the racist past of this county and keeping out blacks and having a dislike for the county. I also thought suburbs always had more single family housing and less jobs than cities. In this part of the United States a suburb means something different than what it means in other parts of the world and is more of a political term for other municipalities which caught me off guard and wasn’t what I grew up thinking a suburb was.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://slate.com/business/2015/05/urban-density-nearly-half-of-america-s-biggest-cities-look-like-giant-suburbs.html}}</ref> Some of these suburbs have lower single family housing rates and higher population density and this specific county has more jobs than the “major city” (referenced in previous unblock request if interested). This doesn’t excuse my behavior but shows why I was confused and I should have properly addressed it in the talk pages instead of edit warring or creating accounts. After my initial blocking, I made edits trying to improve the project thinking that would help my case when it actually does the opposite because I was bypassing my block which got me community banned to due the automatic 3 strikes rule. I have not since bypassed my block. I’m interested in car related things as well as cities and populations of the United States and want to improve these articles using good strong references. Thanks for reading. ] (]) 04:46, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
perfman
:The article is still there: ]. ]] 11:00, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


{{reflist-talk}} ] (]/]) 21:22, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
It's probably a glitch, the server backend has been having synchronization problems. <span class="user-sig user-Quarl"><i>—] <sup>(])</sup> <small>2006-12-18 11:18Z</small></i></span>
* '''(mildly involved) Support'''. I gave feedback on an earlier version of their ban appeal. This is five years since the initial block. Five years and many, many socks, and many, many arguments. But with no recent ban evasion and a commitment to communicate better, I think it's time to give a second chance. -- ] (]) 21:42, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
:On another note, I just added a copyvio tag to the article, it seems to be word-for-word taken from the website associated with it: . ] 11:30, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per asilvering and ]. ] (]/]) 21:44, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. Five years is a long time. Willing to trust for a second chance.] (]) 21:49, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
* Ideally I'd want to see some indication that they don't intend to ] as the issue seems to be rather ideological in nature and I don't see that addressed in the appeal. I also don't love the failure to understand a lot of issues around their block/conduct and their inability to effectively communicate ] and on their ]. ] (]) 00:00, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
*:Would a topic ban from Kansas-related topics help? This was floated as a bare minimum two or so years ago. -- ] (]) 00:32, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
*:I'm not that concerned by the RGW issue. Their communication on this appeal has been clear, they responded to my feedback regarding their unblock request, and they've indicated they'll not edit war and seek consensus for their edits. ] (]/]) 00:46, 8 January 2025 (UTC)


== Undo? == == Heritage Foundation ==


There is a discussion at ] that may be of interest to those who watch this noticeboard, especially if you edit in the PIA topic area. ] ] 04:12, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
Eh? --] - '']'' - ] 10:47, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
:...? Do you have a question? ]] 11:02, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
::<Sigh> What the hell is the Undo function (which I have heretofore not seen) supposed to do? Is it an admin function? Then why does it not appear to work? --] - '']'' - ] 11:05, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
:::What are you talking about? ] <small>]</small> 11:09, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


== Deleted contributions request ==
:::It is a function avaliable to all users that allows you to undo a specific edit of a page without affecting the rest of the page. To be used for past vandalism etc. It does not always work, if the following change was a rollback to a previous version for instance, you cannot undo that edit. ]] 11:10, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
{{atop|Done and dusted. Good work all. - ] <sub>]</sub> 06:11, 8 January 2025 (UTC)}}
:::: Yup. Good for fishing ] linkspam out of articles, in my experience. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 12:53, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm currently leading an investigation at the English Wikibooks into poorly attributed page importations from the 2000s (decade). One page I discovered was ], which was allegedly imported from an enwiki page called ], but this page does not appear to have ever existed. It looks like this page was deleted at VFD in 2004, but there is no deletion log entry, so I can't find the original page to re-import to Wikibooks. Its talk page provides a page history for this enwiki article, which includes an anonymous editor whose IP address is {{IPvandal|62.200.132.17}}. If the privacy policy allows it, I would like to know the titles of the pages that this user edited in their three deleted contributions (I don't need the content, just the titles). ]<sub>]<sub>]</sub></sub> (]/]) 05:08, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
::::: I must be missing something. Where is that function? Am I stupid? ] ] 13:57, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


:{{ping|JJPMaster}} The only deleted contributions from that IP are to the deleted article you linked above and garden variety vandalism of a redirect saying that "this is junk". If you're looking for poorly attributed page importations, this specific IP would be a dead end on that front. ] ] 05:15, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
== Temporary injunction passed in ] ==
::@]: Nope, that's actually all I needed to know&mdash;I really just needed this information to verify the page title. Could this page be undeleted in my userspace so I can complete the proper import and merge? ]<sub>]<sub>]</sub></sub> (]/]) 05:19, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Done at ]. I've never done something like this before so let me know if I messed up. I removed for VfD nomination template in case that screwed with bots or whatever. Let me know if there's anything else I can do to help. ] ] 05:27, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
::::@]: The import and merge are {{done}}. Please delete the page now. ]<sub>]<sub>]</sub></sub> (]/]) 05:30, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} I've deleted the page. ] ] 05:31, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
The reason you couldn't find it in the deletion log is because logs . This page was deleted ]. —] 06:36, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== ] behavior (or 'very' slow learner) from ] ==
A temporary injunction has been ] in ]. All editors listed as a party to this case are banned from editing ] until the case is settled.


]'s talk page has got some history. It would seem they have a habit of AfCing articles on rappers and sports teams, failing them, and then making them anyway, such as with ] which is currently at ] and looks like it deserves a PROD. They've been repeatedly informed to include sources and citations but seem to fail to do so. But my ] allegation comes from at the AfD where they blanked the page, seemingly in an attempt to obstruct the AfD process. Does this behavior warrant administrator action beyond a stern talking-to? ] (]) 10:10, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
For the Arbitration Committee --] 11:32, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
:Sure, a long talk page, but not a single non-templated notice as far as I can tell (though I might have missed one). I think a kind word would suffice, at least to start out with. ] (]) 10:27, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

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    Sander.v.Ginkel unblock request

    The following is copied from User talk:Sander.v.Ginkel#Unblock_request on behalf of Sander.v.Ginkel:

    I have made serious mistakes. I regret it and say sorry for it. I fully understand why I have been blocked. My biggest mistake that I copied-pasted content from articles to other articles, that led to a BLP violation. I have also misused other accounts as suckpuppets: User:SportsOlympic and User:MFriedman (note that the two other accounts –- User:Dilliedillie and User:Vaintrain -- at Category:Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of Sander.v.Ginkel was not me. ) In addition, my work was too focused on quantity, rather than quality. I apologize to those who had to do some cleaning up for me.

    Whay do I want to come back? And do I deserve it? I can show that I can make constructive content. I made some edits and created pages under the IP address 82.174.61.58, that was not allowed; and was blocked. It is not good that I made edits under an IP address, but I appreciated that some users (User:Tamzin, User:Xoak, User:Ingenuity) stated they liked the content I created and/or that they offer the opportunity to have me back (see at Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Sander.v.Ginkel/Archive). I made the same mistakes on the Dutch Misplaced Pages (where I misused the same accounts). At this Misplaced Pages I bot back my account and I am editing the Wikipeida I’m also editing at simple.wikipedia.org (see User:SportsOlympic). I have created over 900 pages (see here), (1 page being deleted). I like to create articles from historic work on old sources, for instance simple:Annie van de Blankevoort, simple:1928 Belgium–Netherlands women's athletics competition, simple:Julia Beelaerts van Blokland, simple:Esther Bekkers-Lopes Cardozo or the event simple:Water polo at the 1922 Women's Olympiad that is barely mentioned at the English 1922 Women's Olympiad. Around 100 pages have been (literally) copied to the English Misplaced Pages by several users. I'm also editing Wikidata, see here and here when I forgot to log in.

    However, as I have learned from it, I will never use multiple accounts anymore and adding controversial content without doing a proper fact-check. I will always listen to users, be constructive and be friendly. I will make sure you will not regret giving me my account back. I would like to work under the account user:SportsOlympic.

    Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 18:12, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

    Support unbanning and unblocking per WP:SO. voorts (talk/contributions) 18:31, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Quoting my SPI comment in 2022:

      I was torn on this. The IP does not seem to be creating the sort of low-quality BLP stubs that SportsOlympic was. If this were "just" a case of block evasion, I'm not sure I could justify a block of the IP as preventative of any disruption, and would be inclined to either ignore it or block but offer a non-OFFER unblock to the main account. However, Sander.v.Ginkel is banned, and under the SportsOlympic account has caused significant disruption just six months ago. Evading a ban is an inherent harm, as it undercuts the community's ability to self-govern. Furthermore, it would be unfair to the community to allow someone to contribute content, particularly in a DS area as much of the IP's recent edits have been, without the community being on-notice of their history of significant content issues. (And there is still troubling content like Draft:Krupets.) I thus feel I would be defying the mandate the community has given me as an admin if I did anything but block here. ... FWIW, Sander, I could see myself supporting an OFFER unban down the line, although I'd recommend a year away rather than six months.

      That sentiment is what I eventually wrote down at User:Tamzin/Adverse possession unblock, which mentions the same principles being relevant in unban discussions. And now that this is before the community, with even more time having passed, I have no problem unbanning: The post-ban edits, while problematic in that they were sockpuppetry, do show evidence that Sander has learned from his mistakes, and thus a ban no longer serves a preventative purpose. Looking back at the one hesitation I mentioned above, I think my concern was that it was an ECR violation that seemed credulous of a pro-Russian narrative; but if there's no evidence of that being part of any POV-pushing, then I don't see it as an obstacle to unbanning. -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 18:33, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Support per above.-- Deepfriedokra (talk) 18:37, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
      Endorse one account proviso. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 20:28, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I'm a little bit concerned by the sockpuppetry returning earlier this year: Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Sander.v.Ginkel/Archive#18 April 2024. However, that is over 6 months ago. I would Support with the obvious proviso that the user be limited to 1 account and that IP editing may be scrutinized for evidence of WP:LOUTSOCK. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 20:16, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Support with provisions per above. Worth keeping a close eye on, but they seem to have understood the problems with their behavior and improved upon it. The Kip 07:07, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Support I've previously spoken in favor of the subject as well. X (talk) 09:15, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Oppose. "My biggest mistake that I copied-pasted content from articles to other articles, that led to a BLP violation. " That wasn't the biggest mistake by far. You made extremely negative claims about sportspeople based on internet rumors. Apart from this, the first article I checked on simple, , is way too close paraphrasing of the source. This has very sloppy writing, "He started his business alone 1980 built so his horse stable "Hexagon" in Schore. " is just nonsense. Copyvio/close paraphrasing seems to be a recurring problem, this has e.g. "Zwaanswijk is regarded as one of the most respected post-World War II visual artists of Haarlem and his work had a profound influence on the local art scene." where the source has "Piet Zwaanswijk was een van de meest gerespecteerde na-oorlogse beeldend kunstenaars van Haarlem. Zijn werk had een diepe invloed op de lokale kunstscene". I don't get the impression that the earlier issues have disappeared. Fram (talk) 11:45, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Support User seems to have recognized what he did wrong, has edited constructively off enwiki. JayCubby 18:52, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Weak Support, the crux of the issue was three-fold: creation of low-quality sports stubs (including what Fram said), persistent IDHT when asked to fix them, and sockpuppetry. I recall I identified the SportsOlympic sock in a tangential ANI thread a couple of years ago. It appears he has edited constructively elsewhere. I would like to see a commitment to one-account-only and a commitment respond civilly and collaboratively when criticized. Jip Orlando (talk) 15:45, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Support. Completely support an unblock; see my comment here when his IP was blocked in April. BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Oppose. Sander and his socks created literally thousands of poorly-written and/or potentially-copyvio pages on (very frequently) non-notable sports topics. I don't see evidence in his Simple Wiki contribs that his writing has improved, and for someone with his history of non-notable subject choices I would want to see clear evidence that these creations are supported by WP:SUSTAINED, non-routine, IRS SIGCOV. Articles like this may well be on notable competitions, but with content like On 20 March the Women's Fencing Club gave an assaut, in honor of the visit of the Dutch team. As seen as an exceptional, mr. de Vos was a the only man allowed to visit the women's club., and all sources being from 20 or 21 March 1911, we can be confident that verifying and rewriting the mangled translations and searching for continued coverage will be a huge pain for other editors. And going from the most recent en.wp AfD participation I'd also anticipate the same combativeness and time wasted explaining P&Gs to him in that area as well. Given the volume of his creations, I don't think it is fair to foist all the extra work that would come with overturning the ban onto other editors without a much more thorough evaluation of his Simple Wiki contribution quality. JoelleJay (talk) 02:34, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Currently oppose; open to a change of view if some explanation and assurances are given with regard to the points Fram raises. There is no point in unblocking a problematic editor if it appears that they may well continue to cause issues for the community ~ Lindsay 12:59, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Support but keep an eye on contributions off ENWP. Ahri Boy (talk) 17:11, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
      @Ahri Boy: Not sure we are concerned with contribs off ENWP. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 18:27, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
      He might appeal on Commons later if the appeal here is successful, so there would be a cooldown before doing there. Ahri Boy (talk) 01:15, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Oppose per Fram on close paraphrasing, JoelleJay on sourcing/writing quality, and my own observations on English-language proficiency (I see very recent sentences like "Next as working for magazines he also contributed to book"). At an absolute minimum I would need a restriction on article creation (to prevent the low-quality mass creation issues from recurring), but these issues would be a problem in other areas too. I think continuing to contribute to simple-wiki and nl-wiki would be the best way forward. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 01:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      He was once blocked on NLWP for the same sockpuppetry as here before. I don't even know that he may be offered SO there. Ahri Boy (talk) 10:16, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      See . Extraordinary Writ (talk) 10:22, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Oppose. Like Fram, JoelleJay, and Extraordinary Writ, I have concerns about their competence with regards to copyright, notability, and simple prose writing. I think an unblock is likely to create a timesink for the community, who will be forced to tie one eye up watching both of his hands. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 08:41, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Come on – it's been nearly seven years since the ban – why can't we give another chance? His articles from when he was an IP seemed quite good (and much different from stubs which seem to have been the problem), from what I remember (although they've since been G5'd). BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      S.v.G. needs to be reevaluated. He needs to clarify that the purpose of return is genuine, constructive, and one account only. He hasn't made any contributions to Commons because he was blocked. Ahri Boy (talk) 19:55, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      I think saying that I will never use multiple accounts anymore and that he wants to make constructive content would indicate that the purpose of return is genuine, constructive, and one account only. BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      For the meantime, he should stay at Simple and NLWP for another six months to make sure no suspicions will be made before appealing under SO. Ahri Boy (talk) 20:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      But it's only been three years since he was mass-creating non-notable stubs with BLP violations and bludgeoning AfDs with his SportsOlympic sock. He then edited extensively as an IP, got banned for 18 months, restarted within two weeks of that ban ending, and made another 1000+ edits until his latest IP ban in spring 2024. After which he immediately invoked the (laxer) equivalent of the SO on nl.wp... JoelleJay (talk) 21:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      And he admits that he was too focused on quantity, rather than quality, apologized repeatedly, and his creations as an IP showed that he was no longer focused on mass-creating non-notable stubs. BeanieFan11 (talk) 21:18, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Support With the above mentioned provisions. Seems like a genuine, good faith, attempt to start over. Frank Anchor 04:44, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Support - Like a lot of behavioral issues on this site, I think it all stems back to the general public seeing this site as an all-inclusive encyclopedia and some users here seeing the site as a celebrity encyclopedia. If the user becomes a problem, action can be taken again. Let's see how it goes. KatoKungLee (talk) 20:03, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Oppose per Fram and PMC. —Compassionate727  18:52, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Question: Is SvG the same person as Slowking4? There has been an odd connection between the two in the past; I think it was first noted by Dirk Beetstra. ☆ Bri (talk) 22:58, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Support. This appears to be a good-faith attempt at a return, and looking through the commentary here I don't see evidence to suggest continuing the ban and block are preventative. - The Bushranger One ping only 23:44, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Spider-Man: Beyond the Spider-Verse - draft article about a future film seems to be a long-term draft

    I have not come across a situation like Draft:Spider-Man: Beyond the Spider-Verse before. Maybe this is fairly common and I have just missed it.

    It is a draft article about a film that can not have an article, per WP:NFF. I think the idea is that there is some valuable content there and it would be a shame to delete it when it seems likely that the film will enter final animation and voice recording in the next year or so.

    The problem is that it is attracting the sort of speculative edits from IPs that we want to avoid. Both on the draft and the talk page.

    I became aware of this because there is a request at WP:RPPI to EC-protect the talk page. But it makes me think we should have some kind of protection for the draft too. But I can see arguments for weaker than ECP (speculation is just by IPs) and for stronger... like... why are people editing it anyway? Maybe there are reasons I am not aware of.

    Is anyone more familiar with how we got here? Anyone got any arguments for or against applying semi, EC or full protection to the draft and its talk page?

    Edit: Anyone got any thoughts on the concept of having a draft article for a film that doesn't meet WP:NFF?

    Yaris678 (talk) 00:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    As far as I'm aware, articles on films are allowed so long as principal photography has occurred (principal animation in this case, I guess?). That has clearly happened for this film, even if they are having to scrap and re-write things. And notability is certainly not in question, so having an article is fully within the policy rules. If there are harmful edits happening, then semi-protection seems like a normal response. Silverseren 00:43, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    People say that on the draft's talk page every so often and get rebuffed. Maybe you can be more persuasive, but the general argument is the existing animation was created for "Spider-Man: Across The Spider-Verse" before it was split into two films and no "final animation" has begun on this film. Yaris678 (talk) 01:03, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    Are they basing that claim on any reliable source as evidence? Since what exists in that draft currently with reliable sources clearly indicates work has started. Silverseren 01:11, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    Hi. I'm the editor who has requested the protection for this draft. Per WP:NFF, final animation or voice recording are the requirement to move a film draft to the mainspace. Final animation is different from standard reels being produced, which as sourced, is currently what this film has produced while no voice recording has occurred. It seems to still be very early in development, and much of the earlier work when this was the second part was reportedly scrapped (as sourced in the draft). I do not believe the mainspace viability ought to be discussed here as that is more for the draft. As for the protection request, it appears to be the same person making these disruptive comments which have become unnecessarily excessive and are detracting from the content of the draft itself. I requested protection (initially as ECP though semi works for the talk) because these comments have not benefitted any actual constructive progress and have largely ranged from the IPs attempting to enforce their own opinions about the delays and trying to remove sources they don't like, which has been ongoing since the end of October. As a draft, not many other editors are editing this, so it becomes quite unrelenting and tiresome to deal with these repeated disruptions. Glad to see this has garnered more attention. Trailblazer101 (talk) 01:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    Per WP:NFF, final animation or voice recording are the requirement to move a film draft to the mainspace ...I'm pretty sure that BtSV meets WP:GNG already, regardless of the state of production, and that should be the main factor. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:49, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    I have no problem with the draft being moved, this is just not the normal route to do so and typically NFF is followed for film articles, but I digress. I do caution that this article could be susceptible to further unconstructive comments in the mainspace, but that is a price I'm willing to handle. I can make the move as needed, no worries, I am primarily concerned about these type of comments continuing and if any protection is necessary to prevent or temporarily postpone them from continuing. Trailblazer101 (talk) 05:18, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    There doesn't appear to be enough disruption to the draft page to justify protection at this point. Draft talk definitely should get semi-protection. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:45, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    Really? That seems excessive for a few FOURMy IP comments (likely from the same person). If they continue with it, block the IP, maybe. Protecting talk pages should really be a last resort. Elli (talk | contribs) 00:58, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    Some people overly use NFF to block any film article that has not confirmed start to production, which is really a bad black/white approach. Most films prior to production are not notable or may not even happen when they are first hinted at, and thus it is absolutely appropriate to use NFF to hold back on a standalone until production starts. But then you have some exceptional cases like this (the 3rd of the animated Spider-Man movies that have earned a massive amount of money and praise, with a lot of attention already given to the film even before production) as well as my own experience with Akira (planned film) which deals with a film that has numerous delays and other incidents that its still nowhere close to production, but its journey that way is readily sourced. NFF should not be used to block creation of articles on films that have this much detail about the work that is otherwise suitable by notability guidelines. For this specific article on the Spider-man film, I see no reason why it could not be in main space at this point as to avoid the whole draft problem. — Masem (t) 05:32, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    Yeah, there is a point to be made that even if this final film somehow never finished production, it would still be notable because of the coverage of its attempted production history. There's several films (and video games, among other cultural apocrypha) that meet that notability requirement, even without ever actually having been completed and released to the public. Silverseren 05:36, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    Indeed, a number of aborted films projects are notable exactly because they wound up in development hell. Jodorowsky's Dune is a film about my personal favorite never-got-made film. El Beeblerino 02:59, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

    Noting here that Trailblazer101 moved the article from draft space to main space at 22:44, based on the discussion here and WP:GNG. I have not seen any objections to that move since it was done. I have not seen any more speculative or forumy edits recently. There is a good chance they will come back, but if they come back in a serious number the article and/or talk page can be given an appropriate level of protection at that point, or, if the responsible IPs/accounts can be blocked. I think it is probably time to close this discussion. Yaris678 (talk) 10:56, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

    The IP has made three unconstructive and uncivil comments on the talk today (see this diff, and they show no signs of stopping. Trailblazer101 (talk) 18:03, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    I have blocked that IP. I note that it is possible that some of the other IPs could be the same users and so will block other IPs and/or apply semi-protection if this continues (or encourage others to do the same if I am away from my computer). Yaris678 (talk) 11:51, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
    • Anyone got any thoughts on the concept of having a draft article for a film that doesn't meet WP:NFF? Using draftspace to incubate articles on subjects that are not yet notable but almost certainly will be—unreleased films, upcoming elections, sports events, the next in an "X by year" series, and so on—is a common practice and has been as long as I can remember. As such it's listed at WP:DRAFTREASON. – Joe (talk) 12:04, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

    I think it makes sense to archive all threads in Talk:Spider-Man: Beyond the Spider-Verse. They are all either forumy or else asking when the page can be moved to article space, which is no longer relevant since it is in article space. Yaris678 (talk) 20:06, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

    I've updated the archive bot on that talk age to act on 1 month old threads. Should get rid of half of the ones on there when it runs next and the rest will follow soon enough. I've always thought 6 months was way too long of a default archive policy. Silverseren 20:11, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

    Conflict of interest - Veeranjaneyulu Viharayatra Article

    VENUE CORRECTED Now at Misplaced Pages:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard#Conflict of interest - Veeranjaneyulu Viharayatra Article. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 21:32, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Veeranjaneyulu Viharayatra, I think there is a conflict of interest here. The director himself has created an account and working on the article - Herodyswaroop (talk) 07:51, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

    You should report this at WP:COIN. - The Bushranger One ping only 08:15, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    Gave the purported director a COI welcome template. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 08:23, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Unclear policy

    Asked and answered. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 05:02, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    If an RfC about policy -- i.e., things that one is and is not allowed to do -- was closed with no consensus, but the current state of policy is contradictory (as in, existing policies contradict one another, or more specifically policies contradict guidelines), what is the path forward? I would really like there to be a hard ruling one way or the other, because I am receiving feedback that implies that I would be breaking the rules somehow for following policy that exists.

    For disclosure this is about this RFC on reverting vandalism to talk page archives, and this follow-up, about the more than 2,200 instances of undetected vandalism that people are telling me I am not allowed to revert, citing a consensus that does not actually exist. I cannot emphasize how absolutely wild it is that there is controversy over whether one is allowed to revert vandalism and that people are actually angry at me for trying to revert vandalism, which is something existing policy actually tells you, explicitly, to do!, and I was under the impression that policy trumps guidelines, in general. But here we are.

    I apologize for the repeated questions about this but I am very frustrated about this, and existing methods of trying to come to some kind of clarity about what our policy actually is have not proven fruitful. It feels like a dispute resolution issue -- there are certain individuals who are giving me more grief about this than others -- but I don't really know the right venue for that, nothing is obvious. Gnomingstuff (talk) 18:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

    I'm curious as to the source of your interest in archives that the vast majority of readers and editors are unlikely to see. 331dot (talk) 18:16, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    The source of my interest is that I think vandalism is bad. I don't have a particular interest in archives; they're just what's left now since I've already done the same kind of sweeps for the obvious undetected vandalism in articlespace, Wikidata, Commons, etc.
    This isn't just my opinion, it's Misplaced Pages policy. It's one of the most fundamental policies we have, just short of WP:5P (you know, the one that says "any contributions can and may be mercilessly edited"). It's also more than a little contradictory to claim that archives are not important, yet simultaneously so important that there are harsher restrictions on editing them than almost anything else on the project. We have a way of indicating things shouldn't be edited, it's called protecting the page (which is also policy). Gnomingstuff (talk) 18:29, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    That doesn't really answer my question; I understand the desire to work against vandalism, but shouldn't you be concentrating on pages that are more visible? We're also not talking about vandalism caught in the moment(i.e. by watching the Recent Changes feed). I'm (and I think others) just wonder if you think that's really the best use of your volunteer time.
    There are reasons to not routinely protect archives; bots or humans fixing links, for example. 331dot (talk) 19:02, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I may not be understanding the problem but if an editor has vandalized an archived page, it's completely okay to revert that edit. But if an editor has vandalized a regular page and that page THEN gets archived, it should be left alone. But we have vandals causing mischief to, say, ANI archives and their edits are just reverted if they are discovered. Liz 19:06, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
      Any reason why the ANI archives (and similar archives) are simply not fully protected to avoid vandalism? GiantSnowman 19:09, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
      I assume vandalism to archives is rare, and there are sometimes legitimate reasons to edit them. —Compassionate727  19:15, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    I think you should move this complaint to WP:ANI. You will get better response there. REDISCOVERBHARAT (talk) 14:23, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    If this belongs on either of the noticeboards, it belongs here, not at ANI. Aslo, I think Liz's comments are spot on.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:00, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    "More" response is not always a better response. And I think we addressed Gnomingstuff's question, as much as I understood what they were asking about. It was pretty vague. Liz 03:46, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    43.249.196.179 (again)

    See their previous thread here, Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1174#User:Augmented Seventh. Continuing to disrupt and remove categories without explanation, decided to gravedance on my page after restoring edits without any talk page discussion, and has now moved onto disrupting user sandboxes and user pages by removing categories without said user's permission, calling my reversions 'vindicitive' and now considering me their personal 'nemesis' because they don't understand why they're being reverted. Nate • (chatter) 21:16, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

    User:MrSchimpf is not familiar with some of the WP policies and guidelines especially WP:UOWN and WP:CAT. Also, his obfuscated username is somewhat fustration and is not conducive to efficient editing. 43.249.196.179 (talk) 21:21, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    Special:Diff/1266485663: Editing user pages has no 'hard policy' prohibition, as this is a wiki. 'End of discussion', seriously? Also see WP:NOBAN. Then, Category:Wikipedians is a container category, which clearly says it should only contain subcategories. Even I don't understand why they're being reverted. -- zzuuzz 22:08, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    User:MrSchimpf seems to be unaware of many of the WP polices and guidelines. 43.249.196.179 (talk) 08:03, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    I've been here nineteen years so obviously I do and I apologize if as mentioned I'm more aggressive about userspace being in control of the user themselves. That said I'm no longer engaging with you or any of your edits as you're now refusing to drop the stick and trying to troll some kind of response out of me (and doing the same for Liz, who has the patience of a saint), which you won't get. Understand our guidelines or get blocked. If anyone uninvolved would like to close this, please do so. Nate • (chatter) 17:16, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    Length of time on WP is not a measure of how familiar an editor is with policy and guidelines. Your previous comments show that you are unfamiliar with some of them, but to be fair, it is impossible to know all of them. There are a lot of editors that do not know a lot of the policies and guidelines. THere are content disputes and corrections and reverts happening all the time because of inexperienced editors.
    I am not trolling. I just want WP to be much better than it currently is. 43.249.196.179 (talk) 19:50, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    Adressing that final point, I have made a proposal about Category:Wikipedians to either remove the container banner tag or give special sanction to empty user pages from that main category. Tule-hog (talk) 21:08, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    Category:Wikipedians is at a level of the hierarchy that there should be nothing in it, which is why it is a container category. The contents of it have been added by editors who do not understand how WP works and do not realise that it is a container category. You proposal is not needed. 43.249.196.179 (talk) 22:07, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    Comment: WP:USERNOCAT was cited in this edit (a sandbox used for drafting a larger edit needing discussion, where categories were copied along with the rest of the article's content). (Category:Wikipedians is mentioned explicitly in that guideline.) Tule-hog (talk) 02:49, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
    Whatever the case, user sandbox space is sacred and unless you have permission to edit there, you don't touch them, that's an unwritten rule. Mathglot certainly didn't appreciate it. That's the main issue here and if I was wrong on the cats so be it, but they should not be playing in sandboxes they shouldn't be in. Nate • (chatter) 02:54, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
    Just to clarify: I have no qualms about others making improvements to pages in my users space—which belong to the community and are not "mine"—as long as they are improvements. That said, IP's edits in my userspace look like vandalism to me. Mathglot (talk) 03:04, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
    User namespace is not "sacred". And if there is an unwrittten rule then it is not a rule that needed to be adhered to. Also WP:BOLD. To be a good editor it is important to be familiar with policis and guidelines. 43.249.196.179 (talk) 08:03, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
    It was not a "gravedance". I was pointing out to you that other editors dont agree with you edits. 43.249.196.179 (talk) 09:15, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

    I only just noticed this AN discussion, after placing this warning at User talk:43.249.196.179 about vandalizing a Draft template in my user space. Their edits seem somehow to be related to categories, but near as I can guess from their edit summary here, they also had some inscrutable complaint about me using my userspace as "social media". Maybe interested parties here will understand what they are talking about, because I certainly don't. As of this point, I cannot tell if they are well-meaning, but highly misinformed and uncomprehending, or if they are simply trolling everyone. I suspect the latter, but am willing to be proved wrong, especially if enceforth they stick to guidelines and talk things out, instead of ignoring advice given previously and edit-warring. Mathglot (talk) 03:00, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

    Okay, now I am sure: see this edit at my Talk page, quickly reverted by Remsense while I was in the process of reverting it. This is clearly intentional, malicious, vandalism, as well as retaliation. Therefore, I propose an indefinite block on 43.249.196.179 (talk · contribs) as it is a vandalism-only account. Mathglot (talk) 03:13, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
    I haven't looked into this editor's edits but we don't indefinitely block IP editors as the IP account can easily be assigned to a different user. But they can receive longtime blocks on the order of months or years. Liz 04:33, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
    You are looking at two different IP addresses. Getting things right is important. 43.249.196.179 (talk) 07:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

    Personal attacks by User:Remsense

    The OP needs to let go and move on.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:26, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

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    I was instructed to report this here.

    The editor in question: Remsense (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    • Claiming a user "can't read": . Clear violation of WP:NOPA.
    • Calling a user a "scoundrel": . Clear violation of WP:NOPA.
    • Telling a user "get the hell off my page" for leaving a mandatory notification: . Clear violation of WP:CIVILITY.
    • Claiming a user is "baiting" for seeking enforcement of a 3RR violation . Clear violation of WP:CIVILITY and WP:GOODFAITH.

    2001:569:7FEA:2900:8049:8F17:E1E:C306 (talk) 21:53, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

    Per the helpfully linked diff, I'm not going to be further baited by this person. In disputes like this one I've behaved too cattily for my own liking after being dragged to ANI and the like, and I'd prefer to turn over a new leaf in 2025. If anyone else has questions, let me know. Remsense ‥ 论 22:06, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    @2001:569:7FEA:2900:8049:8F17:E1E:C30: You have wasted too much community time. After being reverted at WP:AN/3 (diff) you are extending your complaint to here. If this continues, I will block your IP range and any other IPs or new editors that pop up with a continuation of this dispute. Discuss disagreements about article content at article talk pages per WP:DR. Johnuniq (talk) 22:12, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    (For the record, I will not be participating in any WP:DR process pertaining to this. I am not interested in correcting the errors introduced to the page at the moment, and trust other editors to competently follow our content guidelines.) Remsense ‥ 论 22:26, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    You were not instructed to report this here. The relevant sentence in the diff contains "if". Phil Bridger (talk) 22:21, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    IP, just drop the stick. Please stop trying to get Remsense sanctioned. It's just gonna get you blocked per WP:BOOMERANG, as you haven't shown sanctionable and repeated misconduct on your diffs. I concur with Phil Bridger. Codename AD 22:40, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

    @Johnuniq: After being reverted at WP:AN/3 (diff) you are extending your complaint to here. What does that diff have to do with anything? My complaint at WP:AN/3 was about Remsense's 3RR violation. My complaint here is about their personal attacks. I was directed to report that here.

    If this continues, I will block your IP range and any other IPs or new editors that pop up with a continuation of this dispute. For pursuing enforcement of Misplaced Pages's policies? What kind of Kafkaesque nonsense is that?

    @Phil Bridger: You were not instructed to report this here. Yes I was. The relevant sentence in the diff contains "if". And the antecedent of that "if" is satisfied, as the above diffs show.

    @Codename AD: DROPTHESTICK The last retort of someone who knows they're in the wrong. By the way, "DROPTHESTICK" isn't policy.

    you haven't shown sanctionable and repeated misconduct on your diffs Yes, I have. How many more examples of Remsense's misconduct do you need? Give a number. 2001:569:7FEA:2900:3948:C64E:1D08:FB61 (talk) 20:22, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

    With this blatant administrator abuse and corruption, it's no wonder Misplaced Pages is perceived as a joke by the public nowadays. Circling the wagons to shield a user from rule enforcement and cover for each other's admin abuse.

    Why do you have such a strong interest in protecting Remsense from Misplaced Pages's rules? Is Remsense part of your "clique"? 2001:569:7FEA:2900:3948:C64E:1D08:FB61 (talk) 20:23, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

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    Happy New Year!

    Happy New Year to all editors on this project! Liz 00:26, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

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    Happy New Year to the administrators of the English Misplaced Pages! Here's to a vandal-free 2025. Well, as vandal-free as y'all can get without having no more work left to do. JJPMaster (she/they) 00:00, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

    Happy New Year to the whole English Misplaced Pages community! Ahri Boy (talk) 00:29, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
    Thank you. And Happy New Year to the non-admin watchers here too. * Pppery * it has begun... 00:47, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
    The most I can muster, to all editors, is after 2024, I hope all of your 2025s are better than you expect them to be! Liz 04:37, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
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    RM completion request

    Done — rsjaffe 🗣️ 21:28, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Please carry out the moves at Talk:Minsk District. I was attempting to close it, but got rate-limited because of the sheer number of pages in question. JJPMaster (she/they) 06:44, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

    Doing... Extraordinary Writ (talk) 06:49, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
    And done. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 07:10, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
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    File:L'Arrivée d'un train en gare de La Ciotat, Complete.webm

    Done — rsjaffe 🗣️ 21:29, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

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    Hi, This is now in the public domain in France, but I can't move this file to Commons because the first version is hidden. Please help. Thanks, Yann (talk) 14:19, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

    Yann, I've deleted the hidden revision, you should be able to move it now. — Masem (t) 14:24, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
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    an obstacle to translation

    This does not require administrator intervention.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:09, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    I was going to translate the article 2022 Wikimedia Foundation actions on the Arabic and Persian Wikipedias into Persian. While translating, I noticed that the title of the article and some of its content about the Persian Misplaced Pages were not cited. I contacted the author (user:Ahri Boy)of the article but have not received a satisfactory answer yet. Please look into the matter. Arbabi second (talk) 16:03, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Incivility at Talk:Azerbaijan Airlines Flight 8243

    @Dreameditsbrooklyn and to a lesser extent @Aviationwikiflight have been bickering in the talk page for a while now, and the reply chains are so long that they go off my phone's screen. DEB in particular has been noticeably passive aggressive in their comments, such as these diffs at me, this diff at AWF, and this diff at User:Awdqmb. Is this actionable? guninvalid (talk) 01:57, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

    This looks to me like it's covered by WP:ARBEE. Animal lover |666| 02:18, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    I have yet to dig through the very length discussions, but on the surface I can say that I'm glad to see it not turning into much of an edit war in the article itself, and remaining mostly on the talk page. Infact the only person who breached 2R's was someone you didn't mention, and interestingly was never warned, but I placed a soft warning on their talk page. As far as the specific diffs provided, I don't see anything in there which is all that problematic, unless you're deeply intrenched in the issue. I would proffer is that if someone says, in it's entirety I am stating a fact. and you take offence to that, then you might need to back away from the discussion for a few days. TiggerJay (talk) 02:47, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    "...then you might need to back away from the discussion for a few days". You're probably right about that. guninvalid (talk) 02:58, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    This seems entirely unnecessary. Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 03:13, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    Can you elaborate on which aspect of this you are referring to that you believe is unnecessary? TiggerJay (talk) 03:55, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    By this, I mean bringing the issue to ANI. If I owe anyone an apology, I stand ready to give it, but @Guninvalid hasn't really been involved in the discussion until very recently and has already escalated it here. Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 03:59, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    It doesn't matter how much someone has been involved in a discussion. If there's misconduct that's not clearly going to get resolved on its own (which I'm not confident saying either way here), then it's a public service, even a responsibility, for an editor to report it. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 05:58, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    @Dreameditsbrooklyn you can see my initial assessment of the situation above. However, I will say uninvolved editors are welcome to bring valid concerns to ANI. It is often far more helpful when someone outside of the situation brings it up here as it ends up being far more neutral. I also would suggest that you might also be too involved right now and need to back away for a few days. The biggest reason is that I believe you read right past Animal lover's and my response which basically didn't find you doing anything wrong. I suggest that a cooling off period might be good for you as well. Not because you're currently doing anything wrong (because that conversation would look quite different), but rather that you're likely too invested in this topic right now to see rationally and objectively. TiggerJay (talk) 06:18, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    It was not my intent to ignore those assessments, and I understand what you've said as far as uninvolved editors raising such issues (real or perceived). Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 19:26, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    Also, as a note, this isn't ANI... - The Bushranger One ping only 07:09, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    Infact I don't know why such a simple infobox change discussion will resulted in endless arguments. And it happened in mutiple pages, like this Voepass crash case, this Swiftair crash case, and now this Azerbaijan Airlines crash case there. And I'm afraid there would be other arguements in previous pages.
    But to be honest, I think I also have some responsibilities on this endless situation: I have known what to do to deal with such major changes, but I didn't really take any action. Awdqmb (talk) 07:14, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    The whole "Accident vs Crash" thing has been going on for a while now. It pretty much goes nowhere every time. DEB gives a whole bunch of reasons why "accident" should be avoided, AWF gives a whole bunch of reasons why "accident" is perfectly fine, and it all repeats with every new WP:AIRCRASH article. I just recommended on DEB's talk page that they try to seek a wider consensus to break this endless cycle, because I for one am tired of seeing the same arguments over and over again with no progress. - ZLEA T\ 08:02, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    Infact you can check the talkpage I provided, you will find such arguments have happened on mutiple pages. Awdqmb (talk) 08:09, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    Since the regular editors in this topic area have proven that they are unable to resolve this utterly trivial terminology dispute among themselves, perhaps the best solution might be to topic ban every consistent advocate of "accident" and to topic ban every consistent advocate of "crash" from all articles about airplane mishaps, and let entirely uninvolved editors make a reasonable decision. Because endless bickering among entrenched advocates is disruptive. Topic bans could then be lifted on editors who explicitly agree to stop beating a dead horse and drop the terminology issue forever. Cullen328 (talk) 08:25, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    It's less "unable to resolve" and more "Dreameditsbrooklyn argues that using 'accident' is original research because the sources use 'crash'" and I wish I was joking. Your modest proposal probably would get some kind of result though! - The Bushranger One ping only 08:27, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    Infact I have already suggested to delete this controversial value on the talkpage of the template, since it have not much actural use to show, and mostly have the same contents with the "Summary" value. And ironically, it has showed the available value on the doc page, but the example they showed on simply violate it! But since then nobody really talk about it yet. Awdqmb (talk) 08:34, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    As someone who has consistently been on the side "accident is fine" of this argument (there really isn't an "accident/crash" binary here, just whether "accident" is original research), I think that's a bit extreme. I laid out a plan to seek wider consensus on DEB's talk page, which should hopefully help resolve the issue once and for all without the need for more drastic measures. - ZLEA T\ 09:20, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    Respectfully, the descriptions aren't trivial. A "crash" describes what happened. An "accident" implies someone made a mistake with no real culpability. An "incident" implies some sort of interaction or series of events. I have no specific dog in this fight and I don't believe I've voiced any significant opinion on the matter here or elsewhere, but such a description is not trivial when we are trying to be neutral in our descriptions. In this particular case, it very much appears that the act was deliberate and the airliner was acceptable collateral damage (in their opinion). At a minimum, it's disputed. As such, "accident" isn't appropriate as it is at least alleged to be a deliberate act or negligence. "Incident" or "crash" would be more neutral. If we say "accident" it implies no one should be blamed and fails WP:Neutral. Buffs (talk) 22:22, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    If only it were that simple (the context of aviation has been explicitly excluded from at least one discussion on the matter). We could go over whether "accident" actually implies no culpability in the context of aviation all day, but this is not the place to do it. As I stated numerous times, we need to formally establish a project-wide consensus about this, and WT:AATF is a good place to start. As for this discussion, I think it can be closed as the issue in question is very minor. - ZLEA T\ 22:42, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    WP:MOS says: If any contradiction arises, this page has precedence.
    WP:AT, which follows MOS says: Generally, article titles are based on what the subject is called in reliable sources.
    The very broad majority of RS call this a crash. Why, in this case, doesn't this apply? Because some editors disagree? I am honestly asking. I don't see a policy which overrules MOS here. Also, I'll hold off on any new discussions on this until things have concluded here and at the article talk page, where the same editor who started this discussion opened an RfC on the topic. Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 22:58, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    I will not continue this off-topic discussion here. If the same perceived problem is happening across multiple WT:AATF articles, then the discussion needs to be moved there to finally end the cycle and come to a consensus. - ZLEA T\ 23:06, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    I'm not sure WP:AATF is the correct venue to continue the discussion for a number of reasons, which I will spare going into here. Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 23:14, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    The very broad majority of RS call this a crash. Why, in this case, doesn't this apply? Because simple issues of phraseology don't need to "follow the sources", and insisting that they do is WP:WIKILAWYERING. - The Bushranger One ping only 01:38, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    Others have rejected this as the venue to hold this debate, and I will too. I suggest you follow your own advice and drop the stick, at least for now. Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 02:06, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    An "accident" implies someone made a mistake with no real culpability No, it does not. The International Civil Aviation Organization, which is somewhat of an authority on the matter, defines an 'aircraft accident' as Accident. An occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft ..., in which: a) a person is fatally or seriously injured b) the aircraft sustains damage or structural failure c) the aircraft is missing or is completely inaccessible. Notice what isn't there - anything about mistakes or culapbility. @Buffs: "Accident" is the official internationally recognized term for this sort of occurance, and is entirely neutral in use. Note that "incident" has a very specific term in aviation which is "an occurrence, other than an accident, associated with the operation of an aircraft that affects or could affect the safety of operation." @Dreameditsbrooklyn: I'd suggest you drop the stick and stop pushing this personal intrepretation. - The Bushranger One ping only 23:51, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    Why do you think this jargon use should take precedence over the common meaning of the word? The word "accident" can be used in (at least) two senses, one of which involves a lack of intention -- the fact that the ICAO (who?) says that they use the word "accident" in only one of these senses isn't somehow magically binding on everyone else who uses the word in the context of aviation. Given the choice between a word with two ambiguous senses, one of which inappropriate, and a word that has only one relevant sense, it's obvious that the latter word will be clearer, isn't it? 50.224.79.68 (talk) 04:12, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    International Civil Aviation Organization. The people whose job it is to establish these things for aviation. It's not the use of one word for the other that I have a problem with. It's the argument that, somehow, using "accident" constitutes original research when in fact it is the correct terminology - and in fact some of the suggested alternatives are explicitly incorrect terminology - is the problem. And no, its not "magically binding", but common useage in the context of aviation is to refer to any crash as an "aviation accident", just like how if somebody deliberately rear-ends you in road rage it's still a "car accident" - it isn't WP:JARGON. - The Bushranger One ping only 09:25, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    Do you think there was a car accident in New Orleans a few days ago? When you appeal to an organization like ICAO for what the meaning of a common word is, you are by definition using jargon. 2600:1700:47F8:800F:0:0:0:1BF7 (talk) 17:58, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    When you appeal to an expert for the meaning of a word in the context of what it's being used in, that's common sense. - The Bushranger One ping only 21:59, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    It’s the very definition of the word jargon! No wonder people are finding you impossible to deal with. 108.169.132.163 (talk) 18:57, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    What is "an occurrence, other than an accident..." if "accident" includes "incidents"? Definition you're claiming here doesn't make a lot of sense. Buffs (talk) 19:03, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    Accident =/= incident, which I believed was clear. - The Bushranger One ping only 21:59, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    Incident includes accidents AND intentional acts. Buffs (talk) 18:34, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    Not according to the ICAO definition, but this probably is something best not continued here I reckon. - The Bushranger One ping only 18:40, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    I did not bring this up to WP:AN to litigate whether to use "crash" or "accident". If you would like to litigate that, I have started a RfC on the Talk page. I brought this here to ask the admins to discuss whether DEB's and AWF's behavior is worth pursuing administrator action. guninvalid (talk) 01:09, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    Since you think this is an "utterly trivial terminology dispute" should I tag you in the RFC at WP:RS when I make it, or not? I don't wish to bother you if it's not important to you. Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 22:31, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    I know this discussion is about conduct, not about the disagreement which prompted it, but I'll note that the other user named here and who has not responded has since changed several instances of the word 'crash' to accident on other entries and has also since been accused of violating 3RR on the very entry which prompted this discussion. I've agreed to confine any further conversations to the talk page until a consensus is reached, wherever that may be. Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 02:46, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    On the very entry for a completely different reason regarding the use of the Aviation Safety Network but I concede that whilst I was within the limits of 3RR, it probably shouldn't have gotten to that point in the first place. ... since changed several instances of the word 'crash' to accident on other entries – The only changes made were either related to a change within the infobox to stay consistent with Template:Infobox aircraft occurrence as the occurrence type on the aforementioned article stated Airliner crash, or related to changes regarding short descriptions since they were changed to be phrased in a way that is not usually done. It's not like I removed every single mention of the word crash and replaced it with accident. But back to the main topic, I'm willing to drop the issue as long as it's not an problem to use accident in articles relating to aviation. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 03:40, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

    Can we close this? The current discussion has next to nothing to do with the original issue and is best continued somewhere else. - ZLEA T\ 19:03, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Agreed. An admin got involved and simply continued off-topic discussion. guninvalid (talk) 21:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Request removal of PMR/Rollback

    Flags removed JJPMaster (she/they) 22:52, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Hi, lately, I haven't been using my page-mover and rollback rights that often and I don't feel returning to the activity anytime soon. Can any admin remove these flags from my account. I relatively happen to support in file-renaming areas these days and have also decided to put in some efforts in this month's NPP backlog. So these rights should stay. Thank you. Regards, Aafi 10:19, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

     Done. Primefac (talk) 10:25, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
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    Insults, personal attacks and reverts of academic material

    This appears to be done. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:51, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    After reverting multiple edits that included references to peer-reviewed papers in academic journals, @FMSky posted the following on the Naomi Seibt talk page: "Put your trash analyses in the appropriate section(s) and stop flooding the lead with citations.". 62.74.35.238 (talk) 12:05, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

    Yes, why haven't you done that? --FMSky (talk) 12:07, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    Article in question is a contentious topic x3. The initial reverts of the IP's edits were for WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY, since the IP included all the material in question in the lead with no mention in the body of the article. Does FMSky need trouted for using the term "trash analyses"? Maybe. However, the IP's actions lean into the WP:ACCUSATIONOFMALICE category, and that may call for either direct sanctions against the anonymous editor or protection/sanctions on the article in question. —C.Fred (talk) 12:09, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    Does FMSky need trouted for using the term "trash analyses"? How else would you describe the IPs additon of "In May 2020, she reiterated her dismissal of investigative evidence by endorsing" --FMSky (talk) 12:11, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    You deleted all academic sources that claim that she is far-right, including other sources that have nothing to do with WP:ACCUSATIONOFMALICE. 62.74.35.238 (talk) 12:14, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    Which also indicates that you were more focused on reverting information you don't agree with, without first discussing it in the talk page. 62.74.35.238 (talk) 12:15, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    Edit: also doubled down. 62.74.35.238 (talk) 12:15, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    Put your new content into the body of the article instead of the lead. The lead is a summary of the body --FMSky (talk) 12:16, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    Done. Now it’s a summary. 62.74.35.238 (talk) 12:20, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    User continues to stuff the lead with info not found anywhere else 1. A block or article lock would be appreciated --FMSky (talk) 12:24, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    I will proceed with covering the whole lead in the rest of the page. Give me an hour or two. 80.149.170.8 (talk) 13:20, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    Start with the body. Do the lede last. And work at article talk to make sure you have consensus before making major changes, especially to the lede. Simonm223 (talk) 13:22, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    The IP has come up with a more than sufficient number of reliable sources to back up the far right assertions (etc). However, the lead is not the place to stuff them: they should be in the body, and the lead should reflect that content. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 14:25, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    • Not only is there a pattern of IP editors inserting large chunks of information to the intro about her right-wing ties, but I also see this edit from 21 December that seemed to be at the start of the pattern, and that's from now-blocked user FederalElection (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). At the least, that's a mitigating factor to excuse FMSky's heavy-handed reaction to these latest edits. At the most, it's grounds to revert the addition until a (new, civil, content-related) discussion at the talk page generates consensus to include it and/or protect the page—and that protection might need logged as CTOP enforcement. —C.Fred (talk) 12:23, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
      You are consistently reverting edits that can be fully backed by reliable peer reviewed articles. You are refusing to acknowledge the scholarly literature. If any of you wanted to politely contribute to the article, you would not remove such sources. It’s not just the “chunk of information”, as you like to refer to it, but the constant removal of content you personally don’t agree with. Asking for the article to be locked is an effort to block others to edit, when the information provided is reliable. The bias extends to your plea to excuse FMSky’s insults. 62.74.35.238 (talk) 12:27, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
      IP - from what FMSky is saying above it looks like the issue is that you're attempting to put material in the lede which is not elaborated upon within the body of the article. This is a manual of style issue. Maybe consider working at article talk to find an appropriate place within the article for your sources. Simonm223 (talk) 13:13, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
      Tread lightly, IP. Trying to link policy-based edits to personal bias is wading back into WP:ACCUSATIONOFMALICE. You will need to present strong evidence to back such accusations up. —C.Fred (talk) 13:16, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
      I'll add that WP:BLPRESTORE requires consensus before restoring material removed "on good-faith BLP objections". Even if the information was in the body, wp:undue concerns arise with pretty much anything added to the lead. So if an editor feels material doesn't belong in the lead of a BLP, it's entirely reasonable to ask for there to be consensus before it's added back. Nil Einne (talk) 09:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    I think everything's been said that needs to be said here. As long as 62.74.35.238 now complies with the request to add the content to the body of the article before adding any summary to the lead, all users engage on the talk page, I don't think any admin action is necessary. WaggersTALK 13:37, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Appeal of topic ban from 2018

    There is consensus to remove this topic ban reached as part of an unblock. Closer's note: as a contentious topic if disruption were to happen again any uninvolved administrator could reimplement the topic ban. Barkeep49 (talk) 18:28, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    In January 2018 (I believe), I was topic banned from editing articles related to Donald Trump due to a number of idiotic edits that violated BLP. The UTRS ticket for this I believe is here. In the time since then, I have demonstrated that I can edit Misplaced Pages constructively (I have 80,350 edits, a large number of which will be on BLP and BLP-related topics), and so I am requesting for this topic ban to be revoked. Whilst I do not plan to make large edits on Donald Trump articles, I would like to have the ability to edit articles on current US events from time to time e.g. to comment on them at WP:ITNC where Trump-related article nominations often appear. Please could you consider removal of this editing restriction? Courtesy ping to Alex Shih who implemented the topic ban in the first place . Joseph2302 (talk) 12:24, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

    For what it's worth, Alex Shih was removed as an administrator in 2019 and has not edited since August, 2022. Cullen328 (talk) 17:29, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    I'd generally support this. Joseph's topic ban from ITN/C and related pages was lifted more than a year ago, and there haven't been any problems in that area, so I have some optimism that this topic ban is also no longer needed. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:49, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    I'm a little concerned that after the big mess in 2018 they still managed to get themselves blocked again in 2022. But, yeah, as Floq says, they seem to have moved past that and have a year's worth of productive editing now. They also seem to understand what got them in trouble in the first place, so I'll cautiously endorse lifting the TBAN. It needs to be understood, however, that with this much history if there's more problems I don't expect there will be much willingness to extend any more WP:AGF. RoySmith (talk) 21:10, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    Endorse lifting TBAN per above. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 23:44, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    Endorse removal of topic ban. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 02:09, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    Endorse removal of topic ban per Misplaced Pages:One last chance. Cullen328 (talk) 02:27, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    User:SpiralWidget vandalizing pages

    Given this, it appears the OP has withdrawn their complaint. - The Bushranger One ping only 21:58, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    I am reporting User:SpiralWidget for repeated vandalism on articles I have created or contributed to. Below is the evidence of their disruptive behavior:

    Evidence

    1. Diff 1 – User:SpiralWidget removed sourced content and replaced it with false information. – This is when SpiralWidget first began vandalizing my contributions. He falsely alleged that simply creating a wikipedia article was to influence an election, and even posted a link to a ballotpedia page about an election in 2026 to encourage sabotaging the article. The reason this is concerning, is because the page is general information about Moliere Dimanche, an artist, a prison reform activist, and a litigant who accomplished a presidential case law and wrote a book. Nothing in the page promotes anything election related, and as can be seen in the link, SpiralWidget did not base the reason on anything other than unwarranted suspicions.

    2. Diff 2 – In this instance, SpiralWidget removed information from a discussion with Professor Tim Gilmore about Dimanche's high school teacher Mrs. Callahan, and a very effective way she helped students in. English class. Mrs. Callahan would give students key words from the play Caesar, and have them use them in an essay writing contest that was timed. Dimanche excelled at this and became an outstanding student in Mrs. Callahan's class. SpiralWidget took an issue that is not even contentious and used it to sabotage the article. It is sabotage because Caesar is a play that was actually written by Shakespeare. I don't think any reasonable person would find that as contentious because it was in an English class in high school, and Caesar is just one part of the lessons on Shakespeare. That's like if the interview was about Frankenstein, and the article stated that Dimanche excelled in studying Mary Shelley. It was unnecessary harassment.

    3. Diff 3 – In this instance, SpiralWidget moved a redirect page to drafts after the article was pointed to a different article using Dimanche's full name instead of his nickname. His reason was so that there could be a discussion, but Misplaced Pages's guidance on this clearly states that a formal discussion is not necessary for redirects, and Misplaced Pages's deletion policy discourages deleting duplicate pages. It even encourages editors to delete entire text and replacing it with redirects. Yet, again, SpiralWidget took it upon himself to allege political motivations, and none of it is true.

    4. Diff 4 - After SpiralWidget did that, he then nominated Moliere Dimanche for deletion, again alleging that it had something to do with an election for governor in 2026. This is not true. The article talks about Dimanche's humble upbringing, his time spent in prison, his efforts in local politics in Orlando, his art, and a case law he helped accomplish in the 11th Circuit that set precedent regarding the Prison Litigation Reform Act. And even if it did, Misplaced Pages has many candidates for office. Misplaced Pages even displays election results, gains by party affiliation, laws introduced, and many other accolades. This is what makes me believe SpiralWidget has some type of animus for Mr. Dimanche, because he constantly makes an issue out of the election, when the article does not focus on that at all.

    5. Diff 5 - The vandalism didn't stop there. SpiralWidget then went to Dimanche v. Brown and nominated that page for deletion as well. Why, because Dimanche was a part of that case. He lied and said that the case was not notable, before asserting that it only made Dimanche look good. This is ridiculous and appears to be hateful. This is a case law, meaning it is not something Dimanche had control over at all. Also, the "Precedential Status" of the law is "Precedential". The case has been cited by judges all across the nation to resolve an additional 178 federal cases. To put that in perspective, Roe v. Wade was cited 2,341 times in resolving federal cases since 1973. This is approximately 46 citations per year. Since Dimanche v. Brown was passed it averages about 20 citations a year. So for SpiralWidget to lie and say that the case is not notable, when clearly, the judge of this country would state otherwise is nothing more than vandalism. Additionally, Misplaced Pages already found all of the related laws and indexed them accordingly.

    Spiralwidget (talk) is vandalizing my pages if they even mention Dimanche, and he is doing harm to genuine, good faith editing. I believe the articles about Dimanche are necessary and important because his prison experience is well documented, and his art is unusual. Renown scholars like Tim Gilmore and Nicole Fleetwood have given thoughtful analysis to his art, and the art is widely recognized. I don't think these articles should be nominated for deletion, and I would request that they be taken out of that nomination, and SpiralWidget be prohibited from further editing on the subject of Dimanche.

    6. List affected articles: Moliere Dimanche, Dimanche v. Brown, etc.

    Context

    - This behavior has been recurring since SpiralWidget used the ballotpedia link the first time and persists today. - I believe this violates Misplaced Pages’s policies and discourages editors from adding to Misplaced Pages.

    I have notified the user on their talk page using ==Notice of noticeboard discussion== Information icon There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.. I kindly request administrative intervention to address this issue.

    NovembersHeartbeat (talk) 18:36, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

    First, you need to read and understand the definition of "vandalism" in WP:Vandalism. Next, you are not allowed to remove properly placed AfD notices until the AfD has been properly closed. I do not see anything improper in Spiralwidget's edits that you linked. I would advise you to drop this complaint and read over our policies and guidelines before resuming editing. Donald Albury 18:47, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    Thank you for your feedback. I understand that I should not remove AfD notices before they are officially closed, and I will follow the proper procedures moving forward. I will also review WP:Vandalism more thoroughly to ensure I’m taking the correct steps in addressing any inappropriate edits. I appreciate your advice and will proceed accordingly. NovembersHeartbeat (talk) 18:54, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    Hi! I feel like I need to weigh in here on my perspective.
    • I was reviewing articles on WP:AFC back in September (EDIT: Turns out it was November. Seems like longer ago.) and stumbled upon Draft: Moe Dimanche, which had been submitted by NovembersHeartbeat (Diff1 in the list above). I then found that he was running for Governor of Florida in 2026, and added a comment on the article pointing this out for future reviewers (as I did not feel strongly about the subject, and I am not so familiar with WP:ARTIST, which was the main claim of notability).
    • Following this, NovembersHeartbeat responded here https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Draft%3AMoe_Dimanche&diff=1256694716&oldid=1256642401 and accused me of election interference.
    • I then commented on User talk:NovembersHeartbeat because I felt I needed to respond to this. NovembersHeartbeat then responded negatively, but eventually I decided to leave the issue and bookmark Draft:Moe Dimanche on my watchlist in order to follow the conversation from then on.
    • On 2 January, earlier today, I opened my Watchlist to see that Draft:Moe Dimanche had been moved to mainspace by NovembersHeartbeat. I then pressed the "revert" button, which I wrongly assumed would revert the article to draftspace. Turns out, this was not possible because NovembersHeartbeat had NOT published Moe Dimanche as an article; instead, he had made a new article, Moliere Dimanche, with a new name, in order to get past the AfC process (which was not going well for Dimanche at all...); as a result, the attempted reversion did not work at all. I then decided that, although I believe I was entitled to go for speedy deletion, I would nominate the article for deletion (I still have WP:COI concerns and I don't think he passes WP:GNG) and also nominate Dimanche v. Brown, which has also been created by NovembersHeartbeat recently.
    • In addition, I would like to question whether there is WP:COI going on here. I think a pertinent recent example that looks suspicious to me is the upload of the image https://commons.wikimedia.org/File:Moliere_dimanche.png which was uploaded at 03:26, 1 January 2025 (i.e. 22:26 on 31 December Florida time) by user https://commons.wikimedia.org/User:Moe_Dimanche, who I am assuming is the subject himself in the flesh. This was then added to the article in this edit by NovembersHeartbeat https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Moliere_Dimanche&oldid=1266552816 on 04:40, 1 January 2025 (23:40 on 31 December Florida time). This is only slightly over an hour after the file itself was uploaded, at a time when most people were at a New Years Eve party. I am not making accusations here, but I am concerned that Dimanche is having communication with NovembersHeartbeat. Either that, or NovembersHeartbeat is indulging in WP:SOCK... Would NovembersHeartbeat like to comment on this? Spiralwidget (talk) 19:05, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    Well, I was advised to drop the complaint, but if you still want answers, I don't mind telling you as I have told you before, I do not have any conflicts of interest. Your whole approach to this topic just seems personal. Even here, the content of the article is not in question, the facts are not in question, you just seem to believe that I am the subject. I made this complaint because I feel like what you are doing is harassment, and you might know the subject yourself or have some type of rivalry against him. I thought Misplaced Pages had a mechanism to prevent that, and I was wrong. I don't know what else to tell you. NovembersHeartbeat (talk) 19:22, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    I checked diff 2 in the complaint, and Spiralwidget is correct: the source does not support the text. Spiralwidget was justified in removing it. Schazjmd (talk) 22:08, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    "Mrs. Callahan would give students key words from the play Caesar, and have them use them in an essay writing contest that was timed. Dimanche excelled at this" is from NovHeartbeats, but none of this is in the source. How does November know so much about how these assignments worked? Was November in the classroom, or is November using sources the rest of us can't see? 74.254.224.67 (talk) 23:53, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
    The exact text from the source is

    "And I had a really good English class back at West Orange High School in Orlando. Ms. Callahan. I couldn’t wait to get to her class. She’d give us a certain amount of time to write a story with keywords from a play we were reading, like Julius Caesar."

    The source says exactly what you just quoted. NovembersHeartbeat (talk) 00:02, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    The source says nothing about whether he was good in the class ("excelled") nor does it say "he enjoyed studying Shakespeare". Schazjmd (talk) 00:25, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    The source doesn't mention any contests as you seem to know about. And its an interview of Moliere, with two single line questions asked by the interviewer. It definitely doesn't support anything except Moliere saying he had a favorite class, which isn't encyclopedic. 74.254.224.67 (talk) 00:37, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

    This is discussion is turning into a content dispute, which doesn't belong here. There's a bit of WP:OUCH going on but right now I don't see a need for admin intervention for either editor. WaggersTALK 15:31, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

    While there is a content dispute in play here, I think behavior is a problem as well...but it's largely by the OP. Remarks like " is vandalizing my pages" (emphasis added). @NovembersHeartbeat:, I would strongly advise that you read WP:OWN, WP:BRD, WP:VANDALISM, and WP:ANYONE. These aren't your pages. Anyone can edit them. If you have a disagreement, then bring it to the talk page. What you are describing as vandalism, is normal editing and disagreement; I would encourage you to strike such remarks as they are inherently hostile when unsubstantiated. This is a normal part of the collaborative editing process. If you don't, your complaints will not only be ignored, but may be to your own detriment. I understand that people may feel that some subjects aren't notable to get their own page and nominations for deletion can feel personal. I've weighed in for inclusion on the subject. Try not to take it personally. Buffs (talk) 19:36, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Repeated tool abuse by User:FlightTime

    Not tool abuse. The IPv6 editor should discuss this with FlightTime, not ANI EvergreenFir (talk) 06:45, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    I have been working on the article Fender Stratocaster with a view to possibly improving it to featured article status at some point in the future. At this point, the edits are mostly restructuring to bring the article into a shape that can then be further developed, depending what it still needs when that first step is done. FlightTime took exception to some edit I made between 22nd and 23rd of December and reverted four edits, without clarifying exactly which edit they thought was problematic. We had a conversation about it, and they reverted themselves. At that point, I believed we had cleared the air, and the situation would not repeat itself.

    However, today, they reverted 17 edits of mine, all in one go, again without any explanation of which edit(s) they felt were problematic. Thus, they make it impossible to discuss or remedy what they felt was the problem. In my opinion, this constitutes tool abuse, and if they cannot improve their communication with IP users and ideally use the tools in a more targeted way, this is a problem for the community.

    Thank you for your time and consideration, and any help in getting to a more constructive collaboration on this article.

    2A02:8071:184:4E80:0:0:0:EAC0 (talk) 00:53, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

    This is not tool abuse, you are being reverted with reasons, and you should discuss the matter with FlightTime. PhilKnight (talk) 00:58, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    I'm not sure what you mean without any explanation as his edit summary clearly documents his reason as Reverted good faith edits by 2A02:8071:184:4E80:0:0:0:EAC0 (talk): Unsourced, unexplained content removal, unsourced OR. Please note that he did assume good faith (not maliciousness), and that he appears at first glance correct that you were removing content without reason, and adding unsourced and/or original research to the article, which is not permitted. Please use the article talk page at: Talk:Fender Stratocaster or talk to the editor directly on their talk page at User talk:FlightTime and work on building consensus instead of readding the same or similar content to the article. TiggerJay (talk) 01:12, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    Again, which are the pieces that you are now objecting to? We are talking about 17 edits, so please be specific! Thank you. 2A02:8071:184:4E80:0:0:0:EAC0 (talk) 06:19, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Emoji redirect

    👌 - The Bushranger One ping only 05:33, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Was trying to create 👌 (film) as a redirect to Super (2010 Indian film); the film does not actually have a title and was represented in posters by the Vitarka Mudrā aka the OK gesture. Apparently the emojis are on a blacklist, it would be great if someone can create this rd, thanks. Gotitbro (talk) 01:35, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

     Done. JJPMaster (she/they) 01:48, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Topic ban appeal

    Hello, I have a topic ban that is approaching one year old on "undiscussed moves, move discussions, deletion discussions, and racial issues broadly construed (including topics associated with the Confederate States of America)". I would like an opportunity to contribute to these topics again. I have been fairly inactive since then but I have edited a few articles without issue. Thank you. DesertInfo (talk) 04:36, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

    I'll kick off by asking the standard two questions: (1) please explain in your own words why you were topic banned; (2) do you have anything to say to convince everyone those same issues won't occur again? WaggersTALK 14:01, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    I was topic banned for not assuming good faith and making an allegation that someone was using a sockpuppet when I was unable to provide substantial evidence. The topic ban was appealable after 3 months but I stepped away for almost a year. I am ready to discuss these topics respectfully and understand the importance of patience and communication. ANI should be a last resort. DesertInfo (talk) 18:29, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    Can you provide a link to the discussion where this topic ban was imposed? Thank you. Liz 04:05, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    Found it. Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1097#Desertambition's hostile edit history. Tarlby 04:35, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    Thank you. That is helpful to have. Liz 07:19, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I support lifting the ban. DI's talk page makes for interesting reading, it shows quite a remarkable change in attitude over a period of a few years, and I believe that's genuine. WaggersTALK 08:58, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    • Oppose lifting the topic ban I think being warned for making edits that violating a topic ban, then being almost completely inactive for six months, and then coming back and asking for it to be lifted and that passing sets a horrible example. * Pppery * it has begun... 06:31, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
      It seemed like a good idea to step away from the site for a time. I was receptive to the warning, even though it was not from an admin, and stopped editing in that area entirely. These are the edits in question: I just forgot that I had to appeal the topic ban here first and haven't gotten around to it until now. It should be noted that the first edit merely restored a previous RFC that had been ignored and the last two were minor changes to articles that have since been restored.
      I have never made a different account or tried to dishonestly avoid the topic ban and I never will. All I ask is that you WP:AGF and give me a chance to show that I can contribute collaboratively and have matured. DesertInfo (talk) 21:51, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
    • Only 106 edits since unblocking (including the unblocking), of which includes apparently no edits to article talkpages, which is where a lot of the issues emerged. There's not much to really evaluate change. CMD (talk) 07:24, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
      I have largely avoided getting involved in article talk pages in order to avoid violating the topic ban. If I were to get involved in these topics to demonstrate change, it would be in violation of the topic ban. Seems like a catch-22. DesertInfo (talk) 20:51, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
      There are literally millions of articles and talk pages not covered by your topic ban. You are expected to demonstrate change there. Why on earth do you think this makes it a catch-22 situation?!? --Yamla (talk) 22:06, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
      I have made plenty of edits to articles like Caribbean Basin, List of current detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Venezuelan Caribbean, and List of archipelagos in the meantime without issue, there was no need to discuss it on the talk page. I have tried to make clear edit summaries and contribute to the encyclopedia. DesertInfo (talk) 22:45, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
    • Oppose lifting the topic ban. As per Chipmunkdavis, there have been very few edits since the unblock in February 2024. Although DesertInfo says "I have made plenty of edits", I just don't see enough here to justify lifting the topic ban. I'll also note that at least some of these edits came close to violating the topic ban (see User_talk:DesertInfo#Topic_ban for example). --Yamla (talk) 23:02, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
    • Oppose at this time I appreciate that you walked away rather than risk violating the ban. that shows some recognition of the issue and willingness to try and do something about it. However, what we would want to see would be a decent track record of editing over a sustained period without any hint of violating the ban, and you are just not there yet. Beeblebrox 23:15, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
      I have edited multiple articles without issue. I don't understand why I would edit articles I'm not interested in/knowledgeable about. I don't want to add useless info or talk page comments for the sake of adding it. I have tried to contribute to articles I know something about. The topic ban is very broad and could reasonably be argued to cover most history/politics subjects.
      I made a genuine mistake half a year ago that was not egregious and did not violate the topic ban, only coming close. When reminded of the topic ban, I stopped immediately. The topic ban was appealable after 3 months. I was told to step away from editing entirely for a long period of time and I did:
      This ban has been in place been in place since 2022, over 3 years. A lot has changed and I have matured greatly. DesertInfo (talk) 23:36, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
      The topic ban is not so broad as to cut off most of en.wiki. Aside from the move and deletion restrictions, which are technical and do not restrict editing from any particular page, the topic ban is just "racial issues broadly construed". Do you really feel that this covers every article you are either interested in or knowledgeable about? Do you really feel you can't participate in talkpages without infringing on this? CMD (talk) 01:50, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

    Request to Fix Redirect Title: Camden stewart

    Looks like this is done. - The Bushranger One ping only 18:39, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Hi, I need help correcting the capitalisation of the redirect "Camden stewart" to "Camden Stewart" as the surname is improperly lowercase. I cannot make the change myself because redirects require admin intervention for title corrections. Could an admin please assist? Thank you! GD234 (talk) 05:19, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

    How many redirects are you making? I see a lot of activity today. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 05:25, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    Thanks for your response! I’m just setting up a few redirects to make it easier for people to find Camdenmusique's article, like Camden Stewart or Camden Music. Let me know if anything needs adjusting, appreciate your help!" GD234 (talk) 05:30, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    @GD234: I have moved the article to draftspace at Draft:Camdenmusique. If you have a conflict of interest with Camden Bonsu-Stewart (which I suspect that you may since you are interested in ensuring that the article is indexed on Google and you uploaded his professional headshot), you must declare it following these instructions. You should also not republish the article until it has been reviewed by an experienced editor at articles for creation. voorts (talk/contributions) 05:30, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    Thank you for your feedback! GD234 (talk) 08:09, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Andra Febrian report

    "Andra Febrian" is disrupting many edits, I have seen many deleted edits by this user, and I would like to report the user for causing many edit wars. The edits unreasonably reverted by this user is very disruptive to me, as I only intend for useful contributions. The user has: - caused many edit wars
    - deleted citations along with deleting correct claims
    - not been cooperative (wikipedia's Editing policy) on many pages that good-intended edits have occurred on
    - not explained deletions of citations in a way that other users have been made upset.
    I request that the user is warned. HiLux duck — Preceding undated comment added 22:13, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

    First: the notice at the top of the page clearly says to place new sections at the bottom of the page, which I have now done for you. Second: you need to provide diffs for the edits you are complaining about. Third, you were supposed to notify Andra Febrian per the instructions at the top of the page. Another user has done so for you. - Donald Albury 00:06, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    @HiLux duck: please sign your comments using ~~~~, which will add a timestamp. Additionally, I reverted your edits to Peugeot 3008 and to Exeed because you are changing information in articles without citing reliable sources. You must cite sources when you add or change information in articles. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:20, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    HiLux duck just filed a new complaint at ANEW and made the exact same mistakes as they did here. I advised them to stop posting complaints on noticeboards until they can follow the instructions. Liz 07:18, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    FWIW, I have a feeling that HiLux Duck is a sockpuppet of MrDavr, but I am holding back until they give themselves enough rope to hang. Same obsession with defining overall lengths for various car classifications and edit warring at length over them.  Mr.choppers | ✎  00:55, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    I'm always impressed when editors can recall editing habits of editors that were blocked years ago. I guess I lack the longterm memory to keep track of sockpuppet habits. Liz 04:14, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    @Liz: MrDavr actually got under my skin at one point; otherwise I probably wouldn't have noticed. Thanks,  Mr.choppers | ✎  02:04, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
    Looking into this  Looks like a duck to me (a HiLux WP:Duck?) because yeah, this is exactly the same editing pattern. Same username pattern as a number of MrDavr socks too (car names/variations thereof - Toyota Hilux). - The Bushranger One ping only 09:49, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    @The Bushranger - Quack quack? Blue Sonnet (talk) 15:23, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    Most likely yes, I knew that the his editing patterns matched an old blocked user but didn't remember the name. Alawadhi3000 (talk) 16:14, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    It's also interesting to note that HiLux duck's user page claims they've been on Misplaced Pages since 2019, and having compared edits more extensively I've seen enough and gone ahead and blocked per WP:DUCK. - The Bushranger One ping only 20:20, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

    Mr.Choppers warning request

    This was (again) posted at the top instead of the bottom; it seems like it is not really a separate issue. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 01:54, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

    User:Mr.Choppers has not followed the WP:Civility rules because:
    - calling me a "nuisance" because of own bias supporting others in edit wars that have nothing to do with the user. (WP:Civility) (WP:Civility (second violation this user has performed))
    - responded fairly aggressively to another user (me) without me being aggressive back or starting this edit war
    - note that he also called me a "sockpuppet of a banned user" without reliable clarification, also biased on that
    - also note the user had not informed me and used aggression to support own claims.

    I would like to inform that this user has unnecessarily used aggression and claimed things not there. Kind regards, HiLux duck (talk) 2:29, 6 January 2025 (GMT+12)

    Missed this because it was at the top. Very unlikely to have merit and is moot now, given the block. - The Bushranger One ping only 02:24, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

    Proposal to vacate ECR remedy of Armenia and Azerbaijan

    Already closed. - The Bushranger One ping only 01:36, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    There is a proposal to vacate the ECR remedy of WP:GS/AA at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (proposals) § Remove Armenia-Azerbaijan general community sanctions. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:53, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Cannot draftify page

    Done. - The Bushranger One ping only 18:38, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    I tried to draftify Wuliangbao_Pagoda but a draft exists with the same name (and same content before I blanked it). Could an admin delete the draft so I can draftify the article? If you reply here, please ping me. Thanks, TheTechie@enwiki (she/they | talk) 00:59, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

     Done @TheTechie: Draft:Wuliangbao Pagoda has been deleted. — xaosflux 01:26, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Remove PCR flag

    Flag run down. - The Bushranger One ping only 18:38, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Can an admin remove my Pending changes reviewer flag as I have not used it recently. Thanks ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 06:26, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Done. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 06:40, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    "The Testifier" report

    Moved to Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents § "The Testifier" report – voorts (talk/contributions) 18:06, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Problem with creating user talk page

    CU blocked as sock by Spicy. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:10, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Hello, I'd like to get some help to create the talk page of user BFDIisNOTnotable (talk · contribs) to warn them against edit warring with {{subst:uw-ewsoft}} or a similar notice. Trying to create the page gives a notice that "bfdi" is in the title blacklist. I wonder how the user was allowed to create the account today, given that from what I can see, the blacklist should also affect usernames...? I obviously can't notify the user of this AN post on their talk page. ObserveOwl (talk) 14:01, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    I have created the talk page. No idea why 'BFDI' is on the blacklist, and if so, why a user name by that was allowed - that's something for cleverer heads than mine... GiantSnowman 14:13, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    I think it stands for "Battle for Dream Island". See WP:BFDI. Phil Bridger (talk) 14:25, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    Ah, I wondered if it was linked to Bundesbeauftragter für den Datenschutz und die Informationsfreiheit. GiantSnowman 14:32, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    As to the technical reason that the username could be created, the reason is that accounts are not actually created on this wiki. They are created globally. As a result, us blacklisting anything can't prevent account creation. Animal lover |666| 18:09, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    This particular account was definitely created on this wiki. Graham87 (talk) 01:04, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Administrators' newsletter – January 2025

    News and updates for administrators from the past month (December 2024).

    Administrator changes

    added Sennecaster
    readded
    removed

    CheckUser changes

    added
    readded Worm That Turned
    removed Ferret

    Oversight changes

    added
    readded Worm That Turned

    Guideline and policy news

    Technical news

    • The Nuke feature also now provides links to the userpage of the user whose pages were deleted, and to the pages which were not selected for deletion, after page deletions are queued. This enables easier follow-up admin-actions.

    Arbitration

    Miscellaneous

    Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    user:Uwappa: refusal to engage with WP:BRD process, unfounded allegation of WP:NPA violation, unfounded vandalism allegation

    I have indefinitely blocked Uwappa per WP:NLT. Whilst the legal threat pointed out by multiple editors may be very vague, it certainly is designed to have a chilling effect, and Uwappa has confirmed this with this addition to the section. Quite apart from that, we have persistent edit-warring, meritless claims of vandalism against others, and there is a limit to which an editor who thinks all of this is a big joke can be allowed to waste everybody else's time. They can explain themselves in an unblock request if they so desire. Black Kite (talk) 22:57, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    repost from archive:

    The content disagreement behind this report is trivial in the overall scope of Misplaced Pages (although the articles affected are subject to WP:MEDRS), but the editor behaviour is not. My reason to bring this case to ANI is that user:Uwappa rejects some basic principles of the project: WP:BRD means that a bold edit may be reverted to the status quo ante and goes on to say don't restore your bold edit, don't make a different edit to this part of the page, don't engage in back-and-forth reverting, and don't start any of the larger dispute resolution processes. Talk to that one person until the two of you have reached an agreement. Despite having been reminded about BRD after their first immediate counter-revert, they responded to the reversion to the sqa with another counter-revert and, after another editor reinstated the sqa, counter-reverted again. At no stage did they attempt to engage in BRD discussion. Both I and the other editor attempted to engage with them at their talk page: Uwappa characterises my explanation as a personal attack. On another page, Uwappa reverted an edit where I suppressed the questioned material template, declaring it "vandalism" in the edit summary. I recognise the rubric at BRD that says BRD is optional, but complying with Misplaced Pages:Editing policy § Talking and editing and Misplaced Pages:Edit war is mandatory but Uwappa has done neither.

    I consider my escalating this to ANI to be a failure of negotiating skill on my part but, while Uwappa refuses to engage, I am left with no choice. Allowing a few days for logic to intervene has not been fruitful. With great reluctance, because Uwappa has made valuable contributions, I have to ask that they be blocked until they acknowledge and commit to respect the principles that underlie BRD, WP:CONSENSUS and WP:OWN.

    Diffs: (all timestamps UTC. NB that I am in England => UTC+00:00, Uwappa is in Australia => UTC+10:00 )

    ---

    As of 11:48 (UTC) on 30/12, the live version of the template is the one that has consensus support. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 11:59, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

    Well, Uwappa hasn't edited on the project in 12 hours so it's pretty sage to assume they haven't seen this complaint yet. I'd like to hear their response and whether or not they are willing to collaborate before passing any judgment. Very through presentation of the dispute, easy to follow, so thank you for that. Liz 20:04, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    Yes, that is why I felt it important to make clear that our time zones are very widely spaced, which makes collaboration difficult in the best of circumstances. When they do see it, I would expect they will take some time offline to polish their response before posting it – and consequently it is likely to be as long again before I respond. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 20:35, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

    Reposted above from archive, see User_talk:Uwappa#c-JMF-20250105190300-Uwappa-20250105161700

    JMF suggested to add the following bit from my talk page:

    You escaped sanction because there were too many more egregious cases in the pipeline and it is a first offence. ANI does not adjudicate on content disputes, only on behaviour and compliance with fundamental principles. The evidence against you was really unarguable; I have seen quite a few cases and I know how they play out: if it had reached a conclusion, you would have been blocked until you acknowledged that you had gotten carried away in the heat of the moment, that you understand and accept WP:EPTALK, WP:EW, WP:CONSENSUS and WP:OWN, and that from now on you commit to respecting them. I strongly advise that you take the message anyway. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 12:47, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    Mate, sorry I was late for the escalation party. End of the year was a madhouse here, both in business and with social activities.
    I was very happy you did escalate and will be happy to reply now that I have spare time available for WP. My business legal department is pretty exited about it, like a kid in a candy store, can't wait to put its teeth in WP rules and regulations.
    Would you like me to repost your escalation? Uwappa (talk) 12:52, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    I strongly advise that you read Misplaced Pages:No legal threats before you write another line. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 15:27, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    I am so sorry I was late to join this party. End of the year was a bit too hectic, did not leave much spare time for fun activities like WP.

    user:Liz What would you like me to do now? Uwappa (talk) 04:54, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

    It was not clear on your talk page, and it's even less clear here since you did not repost your response to JMF's last line there. You do explicitly retract the apparent legal threat that was made? - The Bushranger One ping only 08:22, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    I did not make a legal threat. Uwappa (talk) 08:33, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    @Uwappa: your reference to your "business legal team" could certainly be construed as a veiled one, at the very least. You are being asked to clarify by either confirming or retracting this. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 08:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    My business legal department is pretty exited about it, like a kid in a candy store, can't wait to put its teeth in WP rules and regulations. is either a legal threat or indistinguishable from one. - The Bushranger One ping only 09:33, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    No it is not a legal threat. It is about "WP rules and regulations", not about law.
    • To who would this be a threat?
    • Which law?
    • In which country?
    Uwappa (talk) 09:57, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    Why would a legal department be involved? — Malcolmxl5 (talk) 12:02, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    It certainly looks like a legal threat. M.Bitton (talk) 14:24, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    @Uwappa. Why would a legal department be involved? — Malcolmxl5 (talk) 17:14, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    Wow, I am glad you asked.
    • to have a bit of fun, take a break from the normal, pretty serious work. It will be like kids in a candy store.
    • It will be fun for me too. I can't wait to get going with this once the pandemonium calms down.
    • The accusation "user:Uwappa: refusal to engage" is utterly wrong.
    Uwappa (talk) 22:47, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    I'm not at all experienced in the legal world, but I don't think any professional legal team that you're paying money towards would ever be excited to save you from a website "like kids in a candy store". Tarlby 22:53, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    Why would a legal department be excited about you being reported on Misplaced Pages unless you're planning to use them in some way? Tarlby 17:14, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    I suspect, from context, that Uwappa was trying to suggest they would have assistance of a professional team in interrogating rules and regulations. But "I have the spend to wikilawyer this more than you can" isn't really all that much better than an outright legal threat. Between that and this edit what surprises me is that they're not blocked yet frankly. Simonm223 (talk) 17:23, 6 January 2025 (UTC)


    and just to throw some more fuel on the bushfire, you have just accused me twice more of vandalism.03:01, 6 January 2025 (UTC), 08:03, 6 January 2025 (UTC). --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 12:13, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    • JMF above said you were in Australia and I had no reason to disbelieve him. If you aren't, it's irrelevant really, I was just pointing out that you may not edit for a few hours. No-one here is required to answer your questions, but I will; the point was that you invoked something that could be a legal threat My business legal department is pretty exited about it ... can't wait to put its teeth in WP rules and regulations. You say that isn't a legal threat, well fine, but you haven't explained what it was. Meanwhile, you're still edit-warring on the template and claiming that other's edits are vandalism, which they clearly aren't, which is why you can no longer edit it. Have I missed anything? Black Kite (talk) 17:51, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    • Again, that was either a legal threat or actions indistinguishable from a legal threat in an attempt to cause a chilling effect. When called on it you have continually Wikilawyered instead of straight-up saying "no, that was not a legal threat and I am not involving any legal actions in this". So to make it very clear: you need to clearly state that or be blocked per WP:NLT. - The Bushranger One ping only 20:31, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

    And just to add to the excitement, Uwappa has just repeated their allegation of vandalism against me and reverted to their preferred version of the template for the sixth time.16:26, 6 January 2025 (UTC) (Their edit note adds 3rd time in 24 hours: are they boasting of a 3RR vio? Zefr undid their fourth attempt, I undid their fifth attempt, but possibly they misread the sequence.) --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 17:41, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

    • Ha ha ha, this is beyond ridiculous.

      An editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page whether involving the same or different material—within a 24-hour period.

      — WP:Edit_warring#The_three-revert_rule
      .
    • Suggestion: Add the following calculator to WP:3RR:

    3 is less than three. is equal to three. is more than three.

    • From WP:EW; Even without a 3RR violation, an administrator may still act if they believe a user's behavior constitutes edit warring. Which this quite obviously does, especially as you've reverted twice whilst this report was ongoing. Frankly, you're quite fortunate it was only a partial block. Black Kite (talk) 22:41, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    To admins, please WP:ABAN Uwappa from further work on the calculator template for the body roundness index and waist-to-height ratio, and from further editing and talk page input on those articles. Uwappa has done admirable extensive work, but the simple calculator is finished and sufficient as it is. Uwappa has created voluminous WP:TLDR/WP:WALLOFTEXT talk page discussions for articles with under 50 watchers and few talk page discussants; few editors would read through those long posts, and few are engaged.
    In recent edits on templates, Uwappa reverts changes to the basic template as "vandalism". No, what we're saying is "leave it alone, take a rest, and come back in a few years when more clinical research is completed." Zefr (talk) 18:21, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    An inappropriate template being added to many pages

    Blocked from mainspace. - The Bushranger One ping only 08:00, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    A user is adding the "mortal sin" template to a large number of articles where it doesn't belong . I've reverted 3 of them that were added to the articles I have watchlisted. Could someone who knows how to do massive reverts take care of the others? Thanks. NightHeron (talk) 11:51, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

    Discussion at Misplaced Pages:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2025_January_6#Template:Mortal_sin_in_the_Catholic_Church. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:07, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    I've reverted the addition of the template. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 12:13, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    The template as been deleted per WP:G4. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 12:35, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

    A look through this editor's talk page shows that there is a wider issue with their editing about religion. Regarding this specific issue they have done something quite similar before (see Template:Mortal Sins According To The Catholic Church) along with a number of articles they've written moved to draftspace and that have been nominated for deletion. Their contibution history also shows a significant portion of edits having been reverted. Before suggesting any action I'm keen to hear from Oct13 on this. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 12:35, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

    Btw, the last time Oct13 has ever edited a noticeboard was on June 6 2020. The last 2 times they edited a talk page were on February 17 2022 and April 15 2020. Tarlby 17:40, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    It also looks like the main thing they have done on their own talk pages in the last seven or eight years is to just repeatedly blank it. We may have a RADAR situation here. Beeblebrox 01:45, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

    This editor's editing looks to consist largely of making inappropriate edits, "sourced" if at all to unreliable sources, and perhaps in hopes that if enough of that is done, a few will slip by. As we're unlikely to hear from them, I'd be in favor of indefinitely blocking them, at the very least until they meaningfully engage regarding the problems with their editing. Seraphimblade 01:55, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

    I second that. As we wait here, they continue to edit, and all have been reverted. Perhaps an articlespace block until we get a satisfactory response?— rsjaffe 🗣️ 03:23, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
    I've blocked them indefinitely from mainspace. Seraphimblade 05:36, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Ottawahitech, requesting an appeal on their talk page restriction

    User wants to use Misplaced Pages as a social network. Misplaced Pages is not a social network. - The Bushranger One ping only 22:05, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Hello, I find that Ottawahitech (talk · contribs) has opened an appeal about their talk page restriction.


    As I have told the blocking admin, whom I am not pinging at their request, I do not wish to appeal my block. Before I was blocked at the discretion of Beeblebrox/Just Step Sideways I made about 75,000 "edits" to the English Misplaced Pages, and have continued contributing to other Wikimedia projects since my Block in 2017. I enjoy my recent volunteer activity more than I did my activity here, and do not ask for a complete unblock. However, I would still like to be able to communicate with fellow wikipedia editors and request the removal of the restrictions that have been imposed on my user-talk.
    Notice to the admin handling this request: Just to let you know I am a very infrequent visitor to the English Misplaced Pages, and as such there is no urgency in acting on this request. Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 23:26, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    I'd copy them here. Though in my opinion, the restriction just came along commonly as the indef block. Hoping someone may like to review that. -Lemonaka 15:09, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

    This might be better at WP:AN. — Malcolmxl5 (talk) 15:12, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    Moved per request-Lemonaka 15:13, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    What was Ottawahitech blocked for to begin with? My understanding is something to do with bad page creation attempts and / or edit warring at article talk. Is this correct? Has Ottawahitech demonstrated that they understand what they did was wrong? Because they appear to have been indeffed in 2017 and indefinite doesn't mean forever. If they've shown recognition of what led to their block and have committed not to repeat their mistakes then I'd be inclined to say this looks like a reasonable request. Simonm223 (talk) 15:22, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    Their previous block seemed a little bit like WP:CIR block, and I'm, auch, due to my interaction with them on another project, I'm inclining a not unblock. -Lemonaka 15:29, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    @Lemonaka: why did you post this here? I didn't see Ottawa make a request for this to go to AN. Additionally, blocked means blocked. We don't let blocked editors use their talk page to shoot the shit with other editors. If Ottawa wants to chat with old friends, they can email each other. voorts (talk/contributions) 15:47, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    I agree that we should decline this request. We're here to write an encyclopedia, not run a chat board. If Ottawahitech is interested in the social aspects of wikipedia, they should pursue other communication channels. Perhaps the Wikimedia Community Discord Server is what they're looking for. RoySmith (talk) 20:38, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    Argh. I came here for an entirely different reason, but I am unsurprised to see the persistent IDHT behavior of this user continues on.
    I blocked them in 2017 for persistent failure to abide by basic content policies, mainly being very experienced but still regularly creating pages that qualified for speedy deletion. I believe there was a discussion somewhere that led to it but I seem to have failed to note it in the block log. What I do recall is that they did not participate in that discussion.
    Several months later another admin revoked talk pages access because they were using the page to chat, and to ask other users to proxy for them, while not addressing the block.
    Four years later they contacted me via another WMF site and I did them the courtesy of re-instating their talk page for purposes of appealing their block. They then indicated they didn't want to do that, they just wanted talk page access back.
    And that's still all they want. They don't want to rejoin this community as an editor. There's no point to even discussing this except to consider the possibility of re-revoking TP access to avoid further time wasting nonsense like this. Beeblebrox 21:22, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

    FTR, here is the ANI discussion that led to the block of Ottawahitech. --bonadea contributions talk 21:58, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    RFU backlog doin' great

    I know I ruffled some feathers with the way I approached this last month, but I'm pleased to report that as of this writing there are less than twenty pending unblock requests, many of those being CU blocks. Not that long ago the daily average was closer to eighty. I certainly did not do this alone, in fact I was ill for a week there and did basically nothing. Quite a number of admins and others pitched in in various ways over the past few weeks to move things along.

    That's great, but we should not get complacent, as that was what led to the backlog being so bad before. Thanks to everyone who helped get it to where it is now. I would again encourage any and all admins to pitch in whatever they can to keep this manageable. Any substantive review of an unblock request helps. Thanks again to everyone who helped make this suck a little less. Beeblebrox 21:32, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

    Call for mentors

    There's a discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:Growth Team features/Mentor list about extending the mentorship module to all new accounts. Presently, all new accounts are assigned a mentor, but only half of them receive the module that allows them to send questions to that mentor directly from the newcomer homepage. We'd like to extend the module access to all new accounts, but we're a bit short of the "ideal" number of mentors to do so - we're looking to get about 30 more. Posting here because the experienced users who haunt this noticeboard are likely to make good mentors. Basically the only requirement is "not jerk, has clue", with a side of "you should be someone who logs in frequently enough that your mentees won't feel ignored". Most of the questions you get are very easy to resolve. Some are harder. Every so often you get something actually fun. -- asilvering (talk) 23:31, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

    I signed up sometime last year, and I'd guesstimate that I've received questions from maybe 10% of the accounts I'm assigned to mentor. So far (knock on wood) it hasn't been onerous at all. (Hoping that will encourage more editors to give it a try.) Schazjmd (talk) 23:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    Just signed up. I had played with the idea before, but given there are well over a hundred mentors and I don't hear much about it, I assumed it wasn't terribly active or in need of more people. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 03:40, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
    I've noticed I'm getting fewer questions, which I assume is because more mentors have signed up over time but the number of new accounts receiving the module has remained constant (it's a rare mentee who comes back and asks multiple questions over time). So it's true in a way that it didn't really need more people. I expect that you'll notice a significant boost when it goes to 100% and then a gradual decline again. -- asilvering (talk) 14:31, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
    Time to add an option for three time the number of mentees assigned. Nobody (talk) 07:01, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
    I signed up a week ago, and only got a single question asked of me. How many people are using the newcomer dashboard? There, I have found, aren't many users signing up and editing per day, per ListUsers, so I can't imagine there are very many people using the mentorship at all.
    I'd be curious to see what automatically assigning mentors would do to retention rates (maybe that's written somewhere). JayCubby 17:49, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
    I've been "twice as many" assigned for quite awhile now (I think I was one of the first mentors when the program even launched) and I'd say it's not atypical to only get ten or so queries a month. You can look through my talk page archives if you want a more accurate number (also note that sometimes I revert mentee questions if they're obvious spam). Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 04:40, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
    I just counted and it looks like I've had 156 questions since February 2022. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 04:56, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

    Discussion at Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/2024 review/Phase II/Administrator elections

     You are invited to join the discussion at Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/2024 review/Phase II/Administrator elections. –Novem Linguae (talk) 10:16, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

    Kansascitt1225 ban appeal

    I am posting the following appeal on behalf of Kansascitt1225 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · logs · block log · arb · rfc · lta · SPI · cuwiki), who is considered banned by the community per WP:3X:

    (keeping it short for WP:TLDR) Hi Misplaced Pages community, it has been over 1 year since I edited on Misplaced Pages without evading my block or breaking community rules. I would like to be given another chance to edit. I realized that my blocking was due to my behavior of creating multiple accounts and using them on the same page and creating issues during a disagreement. I was younger then and am now able to communicate more effectively with others. I intend to respect community rules and not be disruptive to the community. I was upset years ago when I mentioned Kansas City’s urban decay and it was reverted as false and I improperly reacted in a disruptive way that violated the community rules. The mistake I made which caused the disruptive behavior was that I genuinely thought people were reverting my edits due to the racist past of this county and keeping out blacks and having a dislike for the county. I also thought suburbs always had more single family housing and less jobs than cities. In this part of the United States a suburb means something different than what it means in other parts of the world and is more of a political term for other municipalities which caught me off guard and wasn’t what I grew up thinking a suburb was. Some of these suburbs have lower single family housing rates and higher population density and this specific county has more jobs than the “major city” (referenced in previous unblock request if interested). This doesn’t excuse my behavior but shows why I was confused and I should have properly addressed it in the talk pages instead of edit warring or creating accounts. After my initial blocking, I made edits trying to improve the project thinking that would help my case when it actually does the opposite because I was bypassing my block which got me community banned to due the automatic 3 strikes rule. I have not since bypassed my block. I’m interested in car related things as well as cities and populations of the United States and want to improve these articles using good strong references. Thanks for reading. Kansascitt1225 (talk) 04:46, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

    References

    1. https://slate.com/business/2015/05/urban-density-nearly-half-of-america-s-biggest-cities-look-like-giant-suburbs.html. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

    voorts (talk/contributions) 21:22, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

    Heritage Foundation

    There is a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (miscellaneous)#Heritage Foundation intending to "identify and target" editors that may be of interest to those who watch this noticeboard, especially if you edit in the PIA topic area. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 04:12, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

    Deleted contributions request

    Done and dusted. Good work all. - The Bushranger One ping only 06:11, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    I'm currently leading an investigation at the English Wikibooks into poorly attributed page importations from the 2000s (decade). One page I discovered was Thick Sand Motorcycling, which was allegedly imported from an enwiki page called How-to/Motorcycling, but this page does not appear to have ever existed. It looks like this page was deleted at VFD in 2004, but there is no deletion log entry, so I can't find the original page to re-import to Wikibooks. Its talk page provides a page history for this enwiki article, which includes an anonymous editor whose IP address is 62.200.132.17 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log). If the privacy policy allows it, I would like to know the titles of the pages that this user edited in their three deleted contributions (I don't need the content, just the titles). JJPMaster (she/they) 05:08, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

    @JJPMaster: The only deleted contributions from that IP are to the deleted article you linked above and garden variety vandalism of a redirect saying that "this is junk". If you're looking for poorly attributed page importations, this specific IP would be a dead end on that front. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 05:15, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
    @Clovermoss: Nope, that's actually all I needed to know—I really just needed this information to verify the page title. Could this page be undeleted in my userspace so I can complete the proper import and merge? JJPMaster (she/they) 05:19, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
    @JJPMaster: Done at User:JJPMaster/How-to/Motorcycling. I've never done something like this before so let me know if I messed up. I removed for VfD nomination template in case that screwed with bots or whatever. Let me know if there's anything else I can do to help. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 05:27, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
    @Clovermoss: The import and merge are  Done. Please delete the page now. JJPMaster (she/they) 05:30, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
    @JJPMaster: I've deleted the page. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 05:31, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

    The reason you couldn't find it in the deletion log is because logs didn't exist in their current form until 23 December 2004. This page was deleted about a month before that. —Cryptic 06:36, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    WP:NOTHERE behavior (or 'very' slow learner) from User: Astronomical17

    User:Astronomical17's talk page has got some history. It would seem they have a habit of AfCing articles on rappers and sports teams, failing them, and then making them anyway, such as with Devstacks which is currently at WP:AfD and looks like it deserves a PROD. They've been repeatedly informed to include sources and citations but seem to fail to do so. But my WP:NOTHERE allegation comes from this diff at the AfD where they blanked the page, seemingly in an attempt to obstruct the AfD process. Does this behavior warrant administrator action beyond a stern talking-to? guninvalid (talk) 10:10, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

    Sure, a long talk page, but not a single non-templated notice as far as I can tell (though I might have missed one). I think a kind word would suffice, at least to start out with. Primefac (talk) 10:27, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
    Category: