| Revision as of 15:20, 31 October 2020 editDoug Weller (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Autopatrolled, Oversighters, Administrators264,143 edits →Remove European Section: c← Previous edit |
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| {{cite book |editor1-last=Min |editor1-first=Pyong Gap |title=Encyclopedia of Racism in the United States |date=2005 |publisher=Greenwood Press |location=Westport, Conn. |isbn=978-0-3133-2688-2}} |
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== European section needs more serious attention == |
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Whoever wrote this section had at best only a casual familiarity with the serious scholarly literature that's been published on this subject. References to Rebecca Fried (an elementary schoolgirl with no standing in academic history), Patrick Young (a lawyer-activist) and The Guardian, of all publications, are a testament to this fact. This statement in particular: |
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"There was widespread anti-Irish job discrimination in the United States and "No Irish need apply" signs were common." |
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needs a better reference than Rebecca Fried. The fact is, scholars of Irish-American social history are split on this question. On the one hand, there are distinguished historians such as Kerby Miller who would seem to agree with this statement, while other scholars have challenged Miller's methodologies and even motivations for advancing this view. Reginald Byron, for example, was a cultural anthropologist who published a large study on "Irish America" (called "Irish America") which contests Miller theses, such as the exile view of Irish emigration, the assimilability of Irish immigrants in America, and, yes, the argument that anti-Irish job discrimination was "widespread" in the US and representative of some sort of common experience for Irish immigrants. Byron's methods were also much more scientifically rigorous than Miller's. |
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Even if Miller's work is accurate, he focuses almost entirely on Northeastern cities and has very little to say about the rest of the US. Was anti-Irish job discrimination "widespread" in California? In the Montana territory? What about the Southeast? New Orleans? St. Louis? New York, Philadelphia and Boston are not the entire United States. |
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In addition, despite the bulk of anti-Irish NINA ads that targeted women in the domestics sector, 19th Century Irish immigrant women still dominated this job market to the extent that the Irish maid became a popular cliché. I would think that this alone would raise some serious concerns about the practice of extrapolating historical narratives by looking at newspaper ads, which Rebecca Fried seems to think is a novel approach. |
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And finally, I reject that we are even giving any space to European-Americans in an article about racism in the US. The word "race", as it is commonly understood today, would not apply to "white" ethnic groups in the 1800s. In addition, most sociologists agree that "racism" is an institutional phenomenon (involving not just prejudice, but the political, economic and social power to enforce prejudice legally or with impunity), while none of the white groups mentioned in this article were ever discriminated against in such a systemic manner or as required by law. In the 19th Century US, during both the antebellum and post-antebellum periods, white males from all corners of Europe, Catholic or Protestant, had voting rights, property rights, citizenship rights, marriage rights (could marry any white woman), political rights (could hold positions in government), and were never segregated in the military or civilian society. The experiences of non-European groups in the US were quite different, and should not be treated as part of the same phenomenon.] (]) 07:59, 28 September 2020 (UTC) |
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"The word "race", as it is commonly understood today, would not apply to "white" ethnic groups in the 1800s." The main article on ] states )(with sources): "It may also mean prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against other people because they are of a different race or ethnicity." ] (]) 07:27, 29 September 2020 (UTC) |
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The entire section should be removed due to racism being a political action that whites are both uniquely capable of and incapable of being the victims of, and the article actually describes any potential discrimination as "religious discrimination" for irish, italians, polish and finish. While it's described as anti-Nazi for german. Nothing to do with race, even if it were systemic and whites were actual victims. ] (]) 13:00, 25 October 2020 (UTC) |
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== New Child Article: White Supremacy in United States School Curriculum == |
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I am posting again to amend my previous Talk section about expanding the Education section. As of now, I am planning on creating a new article on white supremacy in US curriculum in particular. I would still like to expand Education, but include a link to this new article for now. A lot of my previous post still stands, but I would like to concentrate on the history of racist narratives in school curriculum, as well as modern examples and reform movements. Does this sound like a good direction? --] (]) 04:48, 30 September 2020 (UTC) |
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== Comments on new edits == |
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Hi ], thank you for the great and timely contributions. I wanted to point out that there are no images in the education section; I think the article would benefit from some photos which highlight how alive racism is in American schools today. I would also add a few sentences in the section on denial of racism in education. Best, ] (]) 04:11, 26 October 2020 (UTC) |
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==Lincoln was not at all a racist== |
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==Length of the article== |
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I think that the length of this article may be detrimental to people trying to find a specific piece of information as it covers a very long time period and many races. I think it could be more helpful to either split it up into a history by race or split it up into multiple time periods for the ease of the reader. --] (]) 00:23, 29 October 2020 (UTC) |
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I am appalled that a racist was allowed to spread ignorance in Misplaced Pages which is much too refined for this. Just using a reference, one can make up anything they would like. Abraham Lincoln said what he said in order to win votes in order to be elected president so he could put an end to slavery. He had to speak to the same audiences as Stephen Douglas. Lincoln knew what he had to say to win.](]) 21:14, 1 May 2024 (UTC) |
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:We need reliable sources. The hagiographic curriculum in middle school isn't sufficient ] ] 04:53, 2 May 2024 (UTC) |
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==Peer Review== |
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:I agree that it is erroneous to ascribe Abraham Lincoln's words during the Fourth Lincoln-Douglas debate to his "ingrained racist attitudes". I'm sure it was something that he would rather not have had to say, but he was backed into a corner by Douglas and to say anything else at that time would have been political suicide. ] (]) 02:55, 3 October 2024 (UTC) |
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You did a great job maintaining neutrality. |
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My only piece of advice really is to maybe add some images to break up the text. |
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I think some more visuals would help engage your audience, maybe even younger readers. |
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] (]) 00:37, 29 October 2020 (UTC) |
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== == |
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== Remove European Section == |
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I found this quite interesting article on ]. Maybe it has some use in this or some related articles. Fwiw, it includes a list of sources. ] (]) 11:42, 29 March 2024 (UTC) |
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The European section has nothing to do with racism and instead focuses purely on religion and country of origin. It does not belong on an article about racism as there is no example of racism, only prejudice.] (]) 12:38, 31 October 2020 (UTC) |
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:I've restored it, see ]. ] ] 15:20, 31 October 2020 (UTC) |
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I am appalled that a racist was allowed to spread ignorance in Misplaced Pages which is much too refined for this. Just using a reference, one can make up anything they would like. Abraham Lincoln said what he said in order to win votes in order to be elected president so he could put an end to slavery. He had to speak to the same audiences as Stephen Douglas. Lincoln knew what he had to say to win.Daviddaniel37(talk) 21:14, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
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