| Revision as of 19:53, 5 November 2020 editAlison (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Autopatrolled, Checkusers, Administrators47,261 edits →Singular They: Pardon?← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 13:40, 17 December 2024 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,305,781 editsm Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Talk:Judith Butler/Archive 4) (bot |
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== Non-Binary AND lesbian at the same time? == |
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Since Judith Butler describes herself/themself as non-binary she/they technically cannot be ] at the same time. Either Butler is a woman or she has no gender affiliation. The fact that J.B. remains to be a biological woman seems to be irrelevant nowadays since self-identification beats biology. According to this reasoning the tag "lesbian" and all mentions thereof must be removed. (provocative, I know, but I am open to debate) ] (]) 10:57, 11 November 2023 (UTC) |
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:There are plenty of non-binary people who still use the term lesbian for themselves, and plenty of lesbians who are also attracted to non-binary people. As editors, it's not our job to police someone's labels. We just need to follow the sources. ] (]) 15:21, 11 November 2023 (UTC) |
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::They also use the she pronoun so that could solve the logical contradiction. ] (]) 17:16, 30 January 2024 (UTC) |
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:No sexuality excludes non-binary people. Non-binary isn't a single third gender. There are demigender and multigender experiences that include connection to womanhood, for example. When Judith Butler came out as n-b, they didn't say they stopped being lesbian. --] ] 01:36, 23 March 2024 (UTC) |
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Stupid question here: Is wikipedia about informing the readers or pandering to the person who the article is about? If Trump considers himself to be an honest person who always tells the truth ... is that what wikipedia will label him? It is a label and like the poster above me wrote "it's not our job to police someone's labels". This attitude just does not make sense because it leaves the door open for misinformation. ] (]) 21:35, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:One is always saddled with the burden of evaluating the reliability and relevance of a source. There is no formula for truth. No system or policy is immune from misinformation. Could you help me to understand what portions of the article you believe are "pandering?" Is there an source being cited for the content of this article you deem to be unreliable? If so how? ] (]) 20:18, 19 May 2024 (UTC) |
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== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 January 2024 == |
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{{edit extended-protected|Judith Butler|answered=yes}} |
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In the notes of this article, it is indicated that this article will use they/them pronouns for Butler for consistency. Currently she/her pronouns are used for Butler in the Israel-Hamas political action section. Specifically, this occurs in the sentence, “After the start of the 2023 Israel–Hamas war, Butler published an essay entitled "The Compass of Mourning", in which '''she''' argued that Hamas' attacks should be seen in the context of the "horrors of the last seventy years".“ Can someone change the "she" here to "they"? <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> |
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:I have corrected that. I'm not sure what, if anything, we should do with the Die Zeit quote though. It seems to have been translated from German rather poorly if the phrasing "countless the same thing goes on for paragraphs" is anything to go by. Maybe somebody who speaks German can look at that? --] (]) 23:25, 4 January 2024 (UTC) |
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:"... paragraph after paragraph, always the same thing: Violence cannot be justified by anything, and yet one must see the violence of the occupying power Israel. It becomes clear that she (understandably) does not know where to direct {focus?} her thoughts anymore." |
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:The article is behind a paywall. So I could only read the quote from the German wikipedia site and there it does not become more understandable than the version I have given you now. |
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:In German they use the word she. I would consider it a misquote to not do so. We should also not pander to self declared labels. Nobody in their right mind would respect Trump's labels of himself and enforce them in an wikipedia article. ] (]) 22:06, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:: If you want to argue about this ] is the place. This article is just reflecting that policy. ] (]) 22:25, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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== They/Them == |
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I would like to suggest that the article should state at the beginning that JB uses They/Them pronouns otherwise it is confusing. I was about to correct the pronoun when I realized what the situation was. So please give every one a heads up regarding the pronouns. This should be a standard of all people who use non-standard pronouns. ] (]) 22:35, 17 March 2024 (UTC) |
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== Giving an Account of Oneself (2005) == |
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:I don't think there is any Misplaced Pages policy recommending that. Some mention of pronouns is recommended only for ]s. He/him, she/her, and they/them are not neopronouns (]). ] (]) 23:51, 17 March 2024 (UTC) |
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In the section "Giving an Account of Oneself (2005)" the sentence "To take seriously one's opacity to oneself in ethical deliberation means then to critically interrogate the social world in which one comes to be human in the first place and which remains precisely that which one cannot know about oneself." needs to changed or attributed to Butler. It is not clear if this sentence is attributed to Butler or the author explaining an unnamed concept. The sentence in this section is superfluous, has no attribution, and lacks any citation to Butler or their work. This sentence should be removed in its present state. ] (]) 05:15, 1 February 2018 (UTC) |
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== European Graduate School == |
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== mistrust sexual violence == |
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''Speaking at a public event in Paris on March 3'' please add follloing: Despite numerous statements from those affected and reports of systematic sexual violence by Hamas, Butler demanded evidence. |
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I like Judith Butler but I think it's important to briefly point out that the ] is unrecognized in Switzerland and essentially a degree mill, in that it literally takes people's money and pumps them out with Master's degrees after a summer course with the Who's Who of philosophers. Otherwise it looks like the European Graduate School is being used to lend authority to her, which is an indirect promotion of the school. So maybe something could be said like "at the unaccredited European Graduate School" or "at the controversial, unaccredited European Graduate School." ] (]) 06:54, 3 August 2018 (UTC) |
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https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-03-21/ty-article/.premium/the-global-left-needs-to-renounce-judith-butler/0000018e-61e7-d507-a1cf-63f7bc380000 ] (]) 12:21, 2 April 2024 (UTC) |
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{{Misplaced Pages:Edit Request Wizard/Protected/notProtected}} |
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== Maxine Elliot Professor what does it mean? == |
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i've search the internet and i cannot find what this designation does. i found emeritus but not Maxine Elliot. what does putting a name like maxine elliot to a professor? made an undergrad think maxine elliot is JB actual name] (]) 00:37, 24 December 2019 (UTC) |
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: In large/fancy academic institutions, there are professorship/leadership positions that have the name of a major donor or notable person attached to the position name. So my guess is that Maxine Elliott (perhaps this ]) is/was probably a large donor to the school/department. ] (]) 05:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC) |
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== Add a link to an interview in Intercept from May 1,2024. "Judith Butler Will Not Co-Sign Israel’s Alibi for Genocide" == |
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== Singular They == |
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According to this German news articel https://www.tagesspiegel.de/gesellschaft/queerspiegel/gender-und-grammatik-das-pronomen-ist-frei-vom-koerper-aber-es-ist-nicht-frei-vom-geschlecht/25826376.html from 2020-05-13, Butler prefers singular they pronouns. The relevent part is in paragraph two: "Welches Pronomen bevorzuge ich? Butler lacht . 'Es ist they', sagt Butler .", which translates to "Which pronoun do I prefer? Butler laughs . 'It is they', Butler says ." I couldn't find an English source for this and the article also says that this is the first time Butler publicly stated this preference, so there might not be an English source. Anyway, I will change the pronoun (in accrodance with the Misplaced Pages rules on pronouns) and add a sentence on their pronoun preference. ] (]) 11:52, 23 September 2020 (UTC) |
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<u>What I think should be changed</u> : Add a link to an interview in Intercept from May 1,2024. "Judith Butler Will Not Co-Sign Israel’s Alibi for Genocide" |
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:Well, it's gibberish, but if you're going to do that, you still need at least to attempt to follow the rules of English. So where, for example, you've written 'where they have served, beginning in 1998'; you'll need to write 'where they has served, beginning in 1998' - JB may self-describe as 'they' but JB is still just one person, not multiple people. ] (]) 18:22, 5 November 2020 (UTC) |
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<u>Why it should be changed:</u> This interview adds Judith Butler's commentary on the controversy over remarks Butler made about the October 7 attacks in Israel, and eloquently expands her argument that opposition to Israel's actions is not anti-semitism. I do not have 500 edits, so I didn't try to add it as an external link. Alternatively, it could be added as a reference for the 4th paragraph of the introduction or to the section: Comments on Hamas, Hezbollah and the Israel–Hamas war. |
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:: Then why do I say "I have" in English, and not "I has"? - ] <sup>]</sup> 19:53, 5 November 2020 (UTC) |
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] (]) 21:17, 8 May 2024 (UTC) |
Since Judith Butler describes herself/themself as non-binary she/they technically cannot be lesbian at the same time. Either Butler is a woman or she has no gender affiliation. The fact that J.B. remains to be a biological woman seems to be irrelevant nowadays since self-identification beats biology. According to this reasoning the tag "lesbian" and all mentions thereof must be removed. (provocative, I know, but I am open to debate) Schmutzman (talk) 10:57, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
Stupid question here: Is wikipedia about informing the readers or pandering to the person who the article is about? If Trump considers himself to be an honest person who always tells the truth ... is that what wikipedia will label him? It is a label and like the poster above me wrote "it's not our job to police someone's labels". This attitude just does not make sense because it leaves the door open for misinformation. 2001:871:22B:616:B014:77AC:1B45:ECF9 (talk) 21:35, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
In the notes of this article, it is indicated that this article will use they/them pronouns for Butler for consistency. Currently she/her pronouns are used for Butler in the Israel-Hamas political action section. Specifically, this occurs in the sentence, “After the start of the 2023 Israel–Hamas war, Butler published an essay entitled "The Compass of Mourning", in which she argued that Hamas' attacks should be seen in the context of the "horrors of the last seventy years".“ Can someone change the "she" here to "they"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gvarab13 (talk • contribs)
I would like to suggest that the article should state at the beginning that JB uses They/Them pronouns otherwise it is confusing. I was about to correct the pronoun when I realized what the situation was. So please give every one a heads up regarding the pronouns. This should be a standard of all people who use non-standard pronouns. 67.204.247.30 (talk) 22:35, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
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