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Revision as of 18:08, 8 November 2020 edit2603:8081:6403:6c00:fd53:88ae:35dd:44b3 (talk) →Semi-protected edit request on 8 November 2020: new section← Previous edit Latest revision as of 00:29, 10 January 2025 edit undoDumbBOT (talk | contribs)Bots293,360 edits removing a protection template from a non-protected page (info)Tag: Manual revert 
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== 5th paragraph ==
== How is this description of Parler locked? ==
{{edit semi-protected|Parler|answered=yes}}
Current (5th paragraph near very beginning


"On December 15, 2023, the company was sold to a new co-owner group consisting of Ryan Rhodes, Elise Pierotti and Jaco Booyens. Ryan Rhodes was appointed CEO. A 2024 relaunch was hinted at by the new ownership soon after the company purchase. In January 2024, the company's external social media outlets officially restarted operations to announce the relaunch. The platform itself remains inaccessible, but the website has been restored." https://en.wikipedia.org/Parler
Misplaced Pages is supposed to be unbiased. I would like to add my own description of Parler, and I can’t because it is locked.


Proposed Edit:
Antisemitic and far right??? How do those go together? Every Republican I have had the privilege of sitting under has supported Israel and the Jews. Every Democratic President has greatly failed this country and their people. ] (]) 05:14, 31 August 2020 (UTC) <small>— ] (]&#32;• ]) has made ] outside this topic. </small>
:{{re|KrisStaff}} The Misplaced Pages policy on ] requires that we {{tq|represent fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic.}} Can you please explain whether a) you feel that there are other significant views published by reliable sources that present a different viewpoint that needs to be represented in this page, or b) the article does not represent the current sources that are being used? If a), please provide links to the reliable sources that you have found, ensuring they meet ]. If you are unsure, ] contains a long list of commonly-suggested sources along with the general consensus among the Misplaced Pages editing community on whether or not they are considered reliable. Thanks, ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 14:26, 4 September 2020 (UTC) <!-- User:GorillaWarfare/itsbiased -->
::To add a few comments: you can find out why any page is protected ("locked") by viewing the page logs, in this case . This page is currently protected because of persistent disruptive editing.{{pb}}Your shock about antisemitism and the far right confuses me. While it may be that your former Republican leaders have not been antisemitic, antisemitism is quite common among the far right. To quote ]: {{tq|The term ''far-right'', along with ''extreme right'' and ''ultra-right'', has been used in the United States to describe "militant forms of insurgent revolutionary right ideology and separatist ethnocentric nationalism", such as the ], ], the ], the ], or the ]. They share conspiracist views of power which are '''overwhelmingly antisemitic''' and reject pluralist democracy in favour of an organic oligarchy that would unite the perceived homogeneously-racial '']'' nation.}}{{pb}}Regarding your opinions about Democratic presidents, how is that relevant to improving this article? Please review ] and keep things on-topic going forward. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 14:34, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
::{{re|KrisStaff}} This comment is perfect example of why this page is locked. Please see ] and ] and you'll see why it's for the best, this page remains lock and you never be allowed to edit it. We do not need your views on this page, but perhaps Misplaced Pages would be better by your ideas on other pages. ] (]) 04:10, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
:However to answer your point, is Parler only used by Republicans who are Philo-Semititic?] (]) 14:29, 4 September 2020 (UTC)


On December 15, 2023, the company was sold to PDS Partners LLC. A 2024 relaunch was hinted at by the new ownership soon after the company purchase. In January 2024, the company's external social media outlets officially restarted operations to announce the relaunch. The platform became accessible and operational as of March 15th, 2024. ] (]) 19:20, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
Parler is also anti-puppy and anti-kitty cat. Do I have to provide a source for that? ] (]) 22:37, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
:{{re|Jroehl}} If you wanted it to be added to the page, yes. I think you're saying that to make some kind of point, but I have no idea what it is. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 23:34, 2 November 2020 (UTC)


] '''Not done:''' please provide ] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 20:47, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
Read, https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view
] (]) 23:44, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
:I'm quite familiar, and my reply to KrisStaff above is exactly what I'd say to you. You might wish to review ], though. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 00:09, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

I love Misplaced Pages. It is sad that you gender and skin color activists may spoil it for all of us. If I would post on the Twitter OR Facebook Misplaced Pages pages that their posts "often contain far-left content", you all would be outraged. Because that is true for just about ALL unmonitored internet forums. In fact, I will go to the facebook and twitter wikipedia articles and add, in the first paragraph, "Posts on the website often contain far-left content, antisemitism, and conspiracy theories". So I will make you a deal. If it is removed from there, then it is removed from here. It is impossible to read all posts on any of these platforms. So the left/right thing is just an opinion. ] (]) 00:38, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
:{{re|Jroehl}} If you can demonstrate that "Posts on the often contain far-left content, antisemitism, and conspiracy theories" is a fair and proportionate representation of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources, as it is with Parler, then go ahead. But the idea that you could take a well-sourced statement from one article, add it to an article where the sourcing doesn't support it, and then use its removal from the second article to argue its removal from the first is ridiculous. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 00:47, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

"Posts on the website often contain far-right content, antisemitism, and conspiracy theories." But the referenced sources to these claims, as far as I can tell, only specifically quote a single post, and describe others with no links. I suppose, then, that if ] can find one racist, antisemitic, or conspiratorial post on Facebook or Twitter, then he can add that information to their respective pages. ] (]) 20:14, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
:That's not an accurate description of the sourcing. See and ]. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 20:52, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

== NPV ==
The framing seems off, it does not seem worthy of wikipedia. It is not supposed to takes sides. This articles read like it was written by an activist on the far left. "Parler has a significant user base of Trump supporters, conservatives, and Saudi nationals" What is the context and why is this relevant in the header? The sources contain no factual basis, just opinion <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 22:12, 11 September 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><small>— ] (]) has made ] outside this topic. </small>
:The Misplaced Pages policy on ] requires that we {{tq|represent fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic.}} Can you please explain whether a) you feel that there are other significant views published by reliable sources that present a different viewpoint that needs to be represented in this page, or b) the article does not represent the current sources that are being used? If a), please provide links to the reliable sources that you have found, ensuring they meet ]. If you are unsure, ] contains a long list of commonly-suggested sources along with the general consensus among the Misplaced Pages editing community on whether or not they are considered reliable.
:You mention that {{tq|the sources contain no factual basis, just opinion}}–can you be more specific, or are you really saying that all 50 sources used in this article are unreliable? You can refer again to the RSP link I included to see that many of the publications used as sources are listed there, and are considered to be reliable by the editing community. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 22:21, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
::Can you imagine if the Twitter or Facebook articles led with listing all the dominant groups and cray-cray opinions of its user-base? ] (]) 19:04, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
:::This is the talk page for Parler. If you'd like to discuss the Twitter and Facebook articles, please do it at their respective talk pages. However, the coverage of Parler in reliable sourcing overwhelmingly describes the groups that are predominant there; the same is not true for Twitter and Facebook. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 19:26, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
:Please read ] and afterwards consider staying away from editing this page? ] (]) 04:13, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 24 September 2020 ==


== Company ==
{{edit semi-protected|Parler|answered=yes}} {{edit semi-protected|Parler|answered=yes}}
(last paragraph)
The claim of antisemitism is an outright lie! ] (]) 21:51, 24 September 2020 (UTC) <small>— ] (]) has made ] outside this topic. The preceding ] comment was added at 2600:6C58:7700:12D1:B5AD:6439:C49F:D705 (UTC).</small>
current:
:{{not done}} The antisemitism claim is well-sourced. If you wish to contradict it you'll need to present reliable sources of your own, or explain why the sources currently being used are not reliable. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 21:57, 24 September 2020 (UTC)


“On December 15th, Parler was bought from Starboard by Ryan Rhodes, Elise Pierotti and Jaco Booyens”
@GorillaWarfare, you cannot always disprove a lie with 'reliable sources'. For example, if I assert that there are little green men at the end of my garden, you won't find 'reliable sources' to disprove that. Moreover, even if I convince like-minded journalists to support my assertion, that still doesn't (or shouldn't) count as evidence. You say we need to explain why the sources being used are not reliable. That is easy. They are simply posts to opinion pieces by left-wing journalists. They offer no *evidence* that the allegations are true. Moreover, the opinion pieces do not even support the allegation that Parler is characterised by racists. One, for example, merely states that such pieces are 'easy to find' (as they also are on all social media site). <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 08:47, 20 October 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


proposed edit:
:Misplaced Pages reflects ] and is not a publisher of ]. As far as Misplaced Pages is concerned, sources are evidence. Being "left-wing" does not make a source unreliable. If you have some specific reason to doubt the reliability of these sources based ], feel free to explain it. ] (]) 08:58, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
:To illustrate why we have this policy. Say I was to say that "most Parler uses are convicted Pedos" (note I am note saying that), can you disprove that, of course not. So could we then have it in the article? No as it violated many polices. This is why we do not allow ], it is to (ironically) protect people from unfounded accusations.] (]) 09:42, 20 October 2020 (UTC)


On December 15th, 2023, Parler was bought from Starboard by PDS Partners LLC ] (]) 19:22, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
:Your example about little green men is a poor one: the claim that Parler is home to antisemitism is not something that was just made up by a random person on this talk page, it's been reported in multiple reliable sources. So yes, we would need contradictory reliable sources to refute what is said in other reliable sources. If we were to follow your logic, any well-sourced claim could be removed from an article because "you cannot always disprove a lie with 'reliable sources'". Furthermore, the sources are not opinion pieces, they are standard news articles, and as Grayfell said, the political leanings of a source does not mean they are automatically prone to publishing falsehoods. Both ''The Forward'' and ''The Independent'' are generally considered reliable sources on Misplaced Pages. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 15:16, 20 October 2020 (UTC)


] '''Not done:''' please provide ] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 20:48, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
::I'm not going to argue or anything, but as a Jew, I am struggling to find antisemitism content. I search up the term "Israel" for hashtags, all of which were very much pro-Israel, such as #Istandwithisrael #supportisrael #prayforisrael and #israeluaepeacedeal. I have yet to find a single antisemetic post. ] (]) 17:33, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
:::Well RS say they are that, So they must have seen them.] (]) 18:24, 29 October 2020 (UTC)


:Thank you PianoDan, I have a copy of the asset purchase agreement that shows the sale from Starboard to PDS Partners LLC. The document shows Ryan Rhodes as CEO which has previously been corroborated. Please advise on how to provide that document to you. This reliable source also shows that Parler was sold to PDS Partners LLC. https://www.silicon.co.uk/e-enterprise/merger-acquisition/controversial-parler-platform-set-for-2024-return-543964 ] (]) 21:53, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
== Mastodon in the "see also" section ==

I added Mastodon there due to extreme similarities to parler. For many mastodon users, they were unhappy with twitter and migrated to mastodon. For many parler users, they were unhappy with twitter and migrated to parler. I'm pretty sure people would be interested to read more "unhappy with twitter migration" type stories. --] (]) 20:36, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
:I've just alphabetized them, but no objection from me. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 21:03, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

== Organization of the lede ==

Does the composition of the user base and post content really belong as the second sentence of the introductory paragraph, or in the introduction at all for that matter? Specifically:
:"Parler has a significant user base of Trump supporters, conservatives, and Saudi nationals. Posts on the website often contain far-right content, antisemitism, and conspiracy theories."
If we are use the organization of the article as a guide, these two sentences should follow the sentence about general usage, which is correctly placed behind the blurb about the site's founding, intention, and history. I am making the change; if you object, please discuss it here. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 22:56, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
:The userbase and far-right content of the site is the focus of the vast majority of the reliable sources that discuss the site, so yes, I do think it ought to be mentioned first in the lead. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 23:02, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
::I have to disagree, the focus seems to be that it is an emerging social media site that was created as an alternative to twitter, a fact that is mentioned not only in the majority of the sources, but as far as I can tell, in ''every'' source. I'll concede that the user base is a significant topic and should remain in the introduction. But if, as you say, the most significant notable subject about Parler is the composition of the user base, then shouldn't the subject of the first section of the article body be user composition as well? As it stands, the placement of the information about user composition seems forced and I suspect this is what is drawing the sort of "attention" that inspired the semi-protected status. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 23:31, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
:::The "History" section typically goes first in articles like this, but if you'd like to rearrange the order of the "usage" and "user base" sections I have no objections. As for your recent revert, it is pretty common when mentioning other notable figures to pull over the description from the lead sentence of their article, which is what was done for Posobiec. I prefer the former description because we are trying to quickly explain who Posobeic is in a way the reader can understand without having to jump over to Posobiec's article unless they wish to learn more, and at the moment all we're doing is introducing another topic (OANN) the reader might not know about. It is also extremely common for articles to have sources such as the ABC source I introduced, which is not necessarily about the article subject but rather used to verify other fact in the article; I'm confused as to why you're objecting to the inclusion of the source. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 23:41, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
::::But you do object to putting the history of the site before the controversy (so to speak) of the site within in the lede? Is that also typical for articles like these? <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 23:44, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
:::::Correct. Per ], {{tq|The notability of the article's subject is usually established in the first few sentences. As in the body of the article itself, the emphasis given to material in the lead should roughly reflect its importance to the topic, according to reliable, published sources. }} Parler is not notable because it's an alternative to Twitter; there are hundreds of Twitter clones out there that are certainly not notable enough for Misplaced Pages articles. Parler is notable because of its adoption among the far-right, and so that is what should be mentioned first. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 23:49, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
I'm sorry, once again I have to disagree. The current formatting of the lede features a description of the user base of Parler ahead of the function of the website. That's not logical. We should introduce the subject before describing its significance. For example in the article for the ], we don't first say "it is responsible for producing radiation that warms the earth", we first say "it is the star at the center of the solar system" <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 00:00, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
<br>
As for your other unsigned edit re:Posobiec, I believe we should start a separate section to discuss that, no? Before the conversation becomes too confusing. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 00:00, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
:The first sentence of the article ''does'' explain the function of the website: "Parler is a United States-based microblogging and social networking service". And sure, I'll split off a section for Posobiec below. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 00:03, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
::But it makes no mention of the reason it was created. It's not just any generic microblogging site. It was created specifically as a "free-speech" alternative to twitter (roughly speaking), and that fact is mentioned in every article cited, or nearly so. That specific fact is what then attracts the user base we describe. Logically, it should follow in that order<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 00:10, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
:::That's not quite accurate. Parler ''markets itself'' as a free speech alternative; plenty of sources have challenged that descriptor. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 00:14, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
::::Fair enough, I would be comfortable phrasing it that way. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 00:45, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
:::::It is phrased that way. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 00:55, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
I meant to say "I am comfortable phrasing it that way, but would you care to address my other argument?" It is notable for being created as a ""free-speech"" alternative to twitter, thereby attracting these various twitter rejects; the causality of that relationship should be preserved in the lede.<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 01:02, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
:I've already discussed my opposition to reordering, which is that the userbase/site content is the primary focus of articles about Parler. Furthermore, that Parler created itself as a "free speech" social network and the far-right folks just happened to show up is, as far as I can tell, ] not supported by sourcing. That has been an argument by various ] platforms (that they did not intentionally attract the far-right folks who make up much of their userbase), but it is also one that has been treated with much skepticism by third party sources. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 01:05, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
::Original research? Give me some credit. It's in the first and second paragraphs of the Politico article. You can also find it here and here. "The whole company was never intended to be a pro-Trump thing," Matze told CNBC. "A lot of the audience is pro-Trump. I don't care. I'm not judging them either way." <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 01:28, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
:::Those articles support that users who have been banned from Twitter/etc. have gone to Parler, and that Parler ''describes itself'' as less restrictive, both statements that are already in the lead. And we should not take statements by the CEOs of companies at face value when they've been directly challenged by outside parties. I disagree with your characterization of its notability -- it is the content/userbase of the site that has attracted the vast majority of coverage, not the reasons Matze et al have given for creating it. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 01:37, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
::::That's not true. Consider that our three most-cited sources for the article (Washington Post; Fortune; and CNBC ) support exactly what I'm saying. WaPo calls it "the poster child for free expression online..." They mention nothing about conspiracy theories and the only mention of "far-right" is in reference to Laura Loomer, not the far-right political community. And then there's the Slate article, which explicitly states that Saudi Twitter users left for Parler specifically to escape censorship.<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 02:18, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
:::::''Some'' of the sources do describe it in their own words as a "free speech" platform or similar. But other sources contradict that, hence why we do not describe it as such uncritically in this article. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 02:22, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
That's not my argument. I'm saying that in these sources, the focus is not on the user base, it's on the company itself. Even if there are a number of sources that do make the users their focus, the most-cited sources (including those from the most prominent publications) are focused on the stated purpose of the company relative to Twitter and its success or failure at that purpose. The article should reflect that. I'm not saying to remove "far-right", or that it's not notable, I'm saying it's not as prominent as you think and that making it the focus of the article is simultaneously reducing the quality of the article and attracting disruptive editors.<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 03:36, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
:] of information in Misplaced Pages articles is determined by its prominence across reliable sources, not across the handful of sources that happen to be the most frequently cited in an article. I'm not sure where you're getting the impression it's the latter, but it's not accurate. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 14:57, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
::Then shouldn't the ""free-speech alt-twitter"" topic still go first? It is mentioned in nearly all of the sources, including the ones that also focus on the user base, and it is the primary focus for every article sourced here that is not about the user base. Should I tally them up?<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 03:57, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
:::No, it shouldn't. Your continuing to say the same thing repeatedly is not going to get us very far here. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 15:24, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
::::Well, I mean you're obviously not understanding me so I'm going to keep rephrasing it until you do. You realize by your own parameters (]), the fact that it being a ""free-speech attempt at Twitter"" is more prominent in the sources (mentioned in nearly every one of them) means that this should be mentioned first in the lede. Why do you disagree?<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 03:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
:::::In fact, not only is it mentioned in virtually every source, it is used to ''introduce'' Parler in virtually every source. Why shouldn't it be used to introduce Parler in the article? We can explain the cultural significance/makeup of the site after the site itself is adequately introduced.<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 04:40, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
::::::I am understanding you just fine. Mentioned in the source and being the ''focus'' of the source are two different things. I agree with you that it should be mentioned in the lead because it is widely discussed, but the first few sentences of the lead should be dedicated to explaining why the topic is notable, which is why I favor the current ordering. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 14:58, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
Out of curiosity, how would you gauge the primary focus of an article? I'm going to see if I can make a tally. Also, for what it's worth, not many articles seem to focus primarily on Parler being a microblogging site-- should that still be the first sentence, or should we switch it with the one about user base? Haha <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 03:18, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

== Jack Posobiec ==
Splitting per request. To copy from above: It is pretty common when mentioning other notable figures to pull over the description from the lead sentence of their article, which is what was done for Posobiec. I prefer the former description because we are trying to quickly explain who Posobeic is in a way the reader can understand without having to jump over to Posobiec's article unless they wish to learn more, and at the moment all we're doing is introducing another topic (OANN) the reader might not know about. It is also extremely common for articles to have sources such as the ABC source I introduced, which is not necessarily about the article subject but rather used to verify other fact in the article; I'm confused as to why you're objecting to the inclusion of the source. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 00:03, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
:Specifically regarding adjectives that are not used in the resources cited for information about Parler. I do not believe it is appropriate to bring in articles specifically to support the use of adjectives. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 00:03, 19 October 2020 (UTC) Merged<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small>
::Is this based on policy or personal preference? ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 00:06, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
:::First and foremost it is personal preference, for the sake of neatness and concision. ] is the most obvious policy I would use to support that. However, I also believe ], general ], and the spirit of ] are applicable. The link to ] is sufficient for readers to understand his political views. Since this isn't an article about Posobiec, or even the "alt-right" for that matter, we should not be including sources specifically in order to elaborate on those subjects. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 00:41, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
::::Are you saying describing Posobiec as alt-right is non-neutral? Because that's the primary descriptor over at ]. As for the link being sufficient, generally we do not assume readers will know who various people mentioned in an article is, and we avoid making people ], preferring to use a short descriptor of the person (again, usually the same as what is used in said person's bio). ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 00:54, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
:::::No, I'm saying we are shoehorning in adjectives by trying to call him "alt-right" when the article we're citing doesn't, and that in order to support that characterization, which is reasonably challengeable from a reader's perspective, we have to add sources that are not relevant to the actual subject of the article. A short descriptor supported by the article would be to refer to him as an OANN correspondent, which is the context in which he provided this quote. In fact, it would be more appropriate to outright call him a "former Pizzagate proponent" or a "MAGA personality" than to call him "alt-right", but then we start getting away from the topic again. I would be fine with "MAGA personality" if he needs an adjectival clause that badly. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 01:14, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
::::::He needs some sort of quick descriptor, and whether it's an adjective or a noun doesn't matter to me. I've made my stance here clear, which is that I think we should go with a) what is used in the lead of his article, and b) not introduce other topics the reader might be unfamiliar with (OANN). Perhaps others will weigh in. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 01:17, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
Well, why not something simple like "news correspondent" or a synonym, such as "journalist"?<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 01:31, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
:Because his political leanings are quite important to context, and because, as I've repeatedly stated, I think we should go with what has been decided upon at ]. I'm not going to die on any hills if it's left as it is now, but I would definitely object to just calling him a "journalist". ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 01:43, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
::Unless social media counts as "media"--like newspapers, TV, radio, journals or magazines--I don't see how you can identify Posobiec as a "journalist". He's a sh!t-stirrer. He's very popular but that doesn't make him a journalist. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 01:53, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
:::Haha alright, you're right, "correspondent" is a little different. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 01:56, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
::::Since our goal is to summarize sources, and not to provide PR for Posobiec, we have two options. We can use our article, which calls him "an American alt-right political activist and conspiracy theorist" with many sources, or we can take our cue from how the cited source describes him: {{tq|a MAGA personality, former Pizzagate proponent and a correspondent for the pro-Trump One America News Network.}} Picking only a small part of this description is insufficient, and misrepresents what the source itself is telling us. "MAGA personality" seems redundant with "pro-Trump", however not all MAGA personalities are also "former Pizzagate proponents". Honestly, since Posobiec isn't a reliable source for anything, I'm not sure why we are offering his opinion at all, but if we are going to do so, we cannot imply unsupported expertise by merely calling him a "correspondent". It's too simplistic. ] (]) 05:16, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Lets just source alt-right then.] (]) 09:17, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
:{{re|Slatersteven}} Noting that , but was reverted by ] because "this is not an article about posobeic, use of "pizzagate" sources here is not relevant". ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 14:58, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
::Then I support reinserting it.] (]) 15:13, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
:::I have to concur that Posobiec's opinion is not necessary for the article, but I also feel strongly that if we are going to include what he says then we do not need to devote an entire line of text toward describing him. Also, Posobiec being a proponent of Pizzagate does not contribute to the understanding of the quote, only an understanding of Posobiec's political views. These views do not factor into or provide context to what he is saying about Parler lacking the diversity of viewpoints that Twitter has. It only adds clutter to the article, because now the reader is left wondering, "is Parler connected to Pizzagate? Did I miss something?"<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 03:50, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
::::I am also strongly opposed to shoehorning in sources for adjectives to describe another source. It's inelegant<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 03:52, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
:::::We do need to describe briefly who Posobiec is. We can't assume that the reader just knows who he is, and "do not unnecessarily make a reader chase links" is an important point of ]. I also agree that mentioning Posobiec's Pizzagate connections is unnecessary, which is why I would '''support''' using the descriptor from the lead of ] as it was before: {{tq|In mid-2020, alt-right activist and Trump supporter Jack Posobiec compared the service to a Trump rally...}} As for your opinions on "shoehorning" in sources, as I have explained it is standard practice to source auxiliary statements, and your personal preferences around "inelegance" aren't particularly convincing. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 15:23, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
Well, it's true that not everyone values elegance, so it would be egoistic of me to hold them to that standard. But is it really making readers chase links to say simply that Posobiec is a correspondent for the pro-Trump network OANN? That is what is supported by the sources in the article, it avoids introducing unnecessary topics, it succinctly encapsulates Posobeic's role in society (including his political views), and it explains the context in which he is delivering the quote. How much do they need to know about Posobeic in order to understand his quote about Parler? Literally anyone could have said that quote and it would still mean the same thing<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 03:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
:I was responding to your comment that "we do not need to devote an entire line of text toward describing him", which sounded like you were opposing any descriptor of Posobiec at all. But I disagree with your assertion that Posobiec's background is irrelevant to the quote -- it is meaningful to note that it was said by someone who is alt-right/pro-Trump rather than generally critical of Trump/the alt-right/alt-tech. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 15:01, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
::I only meant that whatever description we give him should be succinct and brief, since he isn't the subject of the article. Would you agree that "correspondent for the pro-Trump network OANN" achieves this? It's unambiguous to the reader, it's in the source, and it doesn't take up too much room on the page<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 03:10, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
:::Much prefer "alt-right political activist and conspiracy theorist", if it is concision we are prioritizing. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 03:19, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
::::I mean, in terms of character count they're basically the same. I don't like the latter because it's adding information that a. wasn't in the source, and b. isn't related to Parler, or the context in which Posobiec is talking about Parler. The spotlight shouldn't be on him, it detracts from the article. TBH, if you're worried that using the sourced "correspondent" descriptor paints him too favorably, then let's just ditch the quote. It makes him sound more in-tune than he is anyway<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 03:28, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
:::::Right, I'm saying I prefer my concise version to your concise version, not that mine is more concise than yours. I don't see a reason to take it out, and no, I'm not worried it "paints him too favorably". I've already explained my reasons for preferring the version I've chosen. It looks like it's me and Slatersteven for that version, and you for "correspondent of the pro-Trump ]". ] restored "correspondent of the pro-Trump ] and former proponent of the ] and former proponent of the ]", but it's not clear from their comment above if that's the version he prefers out of all proposals. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 03:44, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
Sure, sure I gotcha. It doesn't bother you that "alt-right" is unsourced, and that to support it we'd have to introduce ''another'' source, meaning we have sources dedicated solely to Posobiec in an article about Parler? Although, come to think of it, are you sure that none of the other sources in the article mention him as alt-right?<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 03:56, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
:*Would love to hear ]'s take on that argument as well<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 03:59, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
::*It was and you removed it, so there is your answer, reinstate the source.] (]) 08:59, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
:::*And for my justification for removing the source? Specifically that this is not Posobiec's page, and doesn't need Posobiec sources. Just curious, any opinion on that?<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 22:17, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
:::::So it was source, you removed the source now you want to remove the claim because it is unsourced. Sorry it does not work like that. If you want to say "this is not about him" fine, that is one argument. But you cannot argue its unsourced.] (]) 12:17, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
:{{ec}} I don't know why you keep asking me questions I've answered repeatedly. As I have noted, it is common to use the first sentence of a subject's Misplaced Pages biography to briefly describe them in-text in other articles, and it is also common to use an additional source to do so. We are not running out of space for sources. As for other sources in this article, perhaps they do, it's been a while since I've read through them all and my memory is not nearly that good. If there's one in here already that supports the description I have no issue with using that instead, but I also have no problem with introducing an additional source. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 04:00, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
::I don't see any problem using "alt-right political activist and conspiracy theorist" or similar derived from the Misplaced Pages article. The purpose of this sentence is merely to provide context for who he is and why he's being quoted. Politico mentions Pizzagate, which is a conspiracy theory, so this is treated by reliable sources as significant context. The Misplaced Pages article also mentions that Posobiec "is considered an Internet troll." The Politico article specifically cites his pro-trolling opinion regarding Parler, so this would also be context. The current wording is also acceptable to me, but removing mention of Pizzagate would be whitewashing. ] (]) 04:37, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
:::That's a good point re:trolling, although I don't think the article calls him troll himself. "Pro-trolling" could probably be fit in somewhere but that's also a bit tedious to work with. But to be clear, I would prefer to use "Pizzagate proponent" than "alt-right" since it's in our source. My only concern with that, to reiterate, is that I believe "Pizzagate" is a highly contentious term and that including it in the article could lead to the reader inferring an association between Pizzagate and Parler that is not supported by the source. Could one of you maybe elaborate on why we need to be so thorough in our description of Posobiec for the reader to understand his quote? And why what I've proposed is insufficient? So far as I understand it, the only argument in favor of including "Pizzagate" or "alt-right" has been "because we can". I hear you there. But I don't know why we ''should''... IOW, does it really improve the article?<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 06:05, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
::::I have already explained the reason multiple times. It is important context, per reliable sources, and the entire point of an encyclopedia is to provide context. He is not being quoted by the source because he is an impartial expert, he is being quoted because he is a MAGA conspiracy theorist. It is not a coincidence that this is also the only reason he even has a Misplaced Pages article. The purpose of the article is to neutrally explain things. Providing his perspective without this important context would be non-neutral. ] (]) 07:21, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
:::::I see what you're saying about context. Context is important. But why is "correspondent for the pro-Trump network OANN" insufficient to satisfy that contextual requirement?<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 22:14, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
::::::Sources decide what is sufficient, ]. The source lists at least three defining traits, but you would have us include only the most flattering of those traits based on your own opinion that it is sufficient. We can dispute what is and is not sufficient, but we use reliable sources reach consensus, and as already explained, ]. ] (]) 00:03, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
:::::::So you mean to say that what I've proposed paints him too favorably? I don't personally think it's flattering, I think it's concise. We obviously do have to curate what we include from the sources we use, otherwise we would be left with bloated articles full of superfluous information, and I believe the descriptors we are discussing fall into that category. "Correspondent for Pro-Trump OANN" encapsulates all of it and should be sufficient for our consolidation of the sources. (Also, NOT ])<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 01:46, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

== Weighted lede ==

<blockquote>The site markets itself as a "free speech" and unbiased alternative to mainstream social networks such as Twitter and Facebook.</blockquote>

There is no justification for the use of scare quotes around free speech which clearly implies that either Parler is not a free speech respecting alternative, or that the concept of a free speech respecting alternative itself is somehow dubious. This is a great way to flag up to the readership that the article has an agenda though - after which they most likely won't bother reading it. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 23:37, 20 October 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:The justification comes ''immediately'' after the sentence you've quoted: {{tq|The site markets itself as a "free speech" and unbiased alternative to mainstream social networks such as Twitter and ]. However, journalists and users have criticized the service for content policies that are more restrictive than the company portrays, and sometimes more restrictive than those of its competitors.}} ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 23:40, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
::Don't think of them as scare quotes, think of them as actual quotes. That is the language used in the sources. What is free speech, anyway? Parler would say it means lack of censorship based on ideas, and its detractors would say it means the site should be fully unpoliced regarding content. The usage of the term is disagreed upon, hence the use of quotes to mark it<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> 04:02, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

== Edit request ==

Hyperlinks to the articles of "BitChute" and "Gab" ] (]) 06:37, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

:The Misplaced Pages articles for ] and ] are already linked. ] (]) 07:28, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 24 October 2020 ==


== 2024 relaunch ==
{{edit semi-protected|Parler|answered=yes}} {{edit semi-protected|Parler|answered=yes}}
Current: On February 9, 2024, Parler's social media outlets announced a relaunch of the social media service, simultaneously updating the website with a form to allow visitors to register for announcements regarding the platform's reopening.
Why are you censoring input on this page?
In April 2024, Parlement Technologies, Parler's former parent, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, listing total assets and liabilities of between $10 million and $50 million.
The description is misleading and I can't change it. ] (]) 12:53, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
:If you create an account you will be able to end once you have enough experience. Now what is misleading, and what do you want to change it to?] (]) 12:55, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

== Complaint ==
{{hat|Hat personal attacks and aspersions}}
User GorillaWarfare seems to be an employee of, or funded by, Twitter.com.

And this makes a LOT of sense considering how much money is involved in possible competing platforms involving free speech.

She has made 38 comments on this page alone.

I am not advocating cancelling/banning her.

Will I get banned/canceled for pointing this out?

] (]) 00:55, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
:Lol, what? What on earth makes you think I work for Twitter? ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 00:57, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Busted. I wonder how many dollars losses for every twitter to parlor convert (potentially billions). And I have to congratulate you! You have a $100,000 a year job to spend your days telling people that, basically, Parler users are are BAD PEOPLE.

If I was a major twitter/facebook/google stock holder, I would consider you a good investment.

] (]) 01:17, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
{{hab}}
:{{re|Jroehl}} I don't make any effort to hide where I work, and it's not at Twitter. If you took two seconds you could find out, but you're clearly more interested in making absurd accusations about my motivations to bother. I've been editing this site for far too long to do something as dumb as make substantial edits to articles about competitors of my employer, and you've clearly not been editing enough to know that trying to ] other users is a great way to get blocked. Don't try it again; most editors of this site are not nearly as open about who they are in real life as I am, and attempts to out them will not be treated lightly. I would ''strongly'' recommend you get back to discussing content, not contributors, and focusing your arguments on policy rather than accusations you're pulling out of thin air. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 01:23, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

I am just observing that it seems very unusual for a human being to spend many hours impugning an internet platform out of general interest. The (cancel) threats you have made against me are a nice touch. You obviously are very bright young person. Your Ad Hominem attacks are well worded. It just seems to me that it would be very unusual for a person to spend so much time defending divisive language in a Misplaced Pages article, unless there was a evangelical type fervent belief or some financial support.

I don't think I have ever seen ONE person make so many comments on ONE talk page, in any other Misplaced Pages article. Does Misplaced Pages have statistics on this?

] (]) 01:53, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

:{{re|Jroehl}} I'm not "impugning" anything. It's perhaps unusual for a human being to spend many hours writing Misplaced Pages articles, but us Wikipedians are an unusual bunch.
:It's not making "cancel threats" to inform you of a Misplaced Pages policy we take very seriously.
:As for my talk page comments, it's extremely common for active editors of a page to take an active role on the talk page. Pick any talk page you like and enter it into and you can see how many times a person's edited the page (though mind that number of edits does not necessarily directly translate to number of comments—lots of editors, including myself, often make several edits to one comment).
:Are you going to take my advice around commenting on content rather than contributors, or will you continue baselessly suggest that I am being paid for my contributions here and, oddly, accuse me of "ad hominem attacks"? ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 02:10, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

>>Yousaid>> Misplaced Pages policy we take very seriously.

So I guess it comes down to which Misplaced Pages policy is more important. You are calling the computer system Parler anti semitic, or ........ I don't understand how a computer database, with many peoples ideas, musings and current views would be against jews. Every post? And I wonder how you would define right-wing in this context? Could you give me one example of of a right wing or anti-jewish aspiration that would constitute 50% of views expressed on Parler. 30%? 10%?

So my question is, at what point must a website's content be deemed anti semitic, to be deemed anti semitic? Are you to decide this? Are your sources the smart people that will decide this?

] (]) 04:15, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

:Misplaced Pages articles reflect what is written in reliable sources. No one is "calling the computer system Parler anti semitic"; if you look at what is actually written in the article, you will see it says "Posts on the website often contain far-right content, antisemitism, and conspiracy theories", which is a statement supported by the sourcing:
:*"Parler is full of fury, fear and conspiracy theories. What’s more, the platform doesn’t have the technology or resources necessary to contain the Jew-hatred and Islamophobia so easily found there."
:*"Upon signing up to the website, Parler recommended trends that were popular “right now” included #trumptweetsmatter, #kukluxklan, #georgesoros and #covidiots." (partially based on the reporting by ''The Forward'', but also adds its own information)
:*"It’s easy to find anti-Semitic, Islamophobic and pro-conspiracy theory hashtags"
:*"Searches on an array of racist or anti-semitic terms at Parler turned up troves of accounts and comments."
:*Not easily quotable, but ''The Bulwark'' describes Parler as home to racist content and conspiracy theories about George Floyd's murder as well as about Jews and the Holocaust.
:*"It’s a clean, well-lighted place where mainly white people spout rumors, misinformation, and vitriol about a variety of go-to topics such as Black Lives Matter, Antifa, Big Tech, “socialism,” “Plandemic,” and Muslims."
:*"much of the content posted on Parler falls into categories deemed offensive and discouraged by the large platforms — such as anti-Islam and anti-feminist sentiment"
:*"The list of trending hashtags at Parler on Monday morning made it clear that the site isn’t exactly a wellspring of variety when it comes to political opinion: #MAGA, #KAG and #TRUMP2020 took their place beside #Q, #QANON and #WWG1WGA (an abbreviation for the QAnon motto “Where We Go One We Go All”). As advertised, Parler does not restrict or ban users for posts, no matter how offensive or absurd, such as one claiming that former first lady Michelle Obama is actually a transvestite. Other threads mock Black Lives Matter protesters and decry the movement to remove Confederate monuments."
:To answer your last comment, it is the sourcing that determines what Misplaced Pages articles will reflect. This is not the first time this conversation has happened, so I'd recommend perusing the archives of this talk page to avoid rehashing old arguments. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 04:25, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
Jroehl, not sure where you are going with this but it doesn't seem like you're going to make much progress here. Maybe drop it? ] (]) 06:22, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

These are PA's and this whole thread should be shut down, we do not discuss editors on article talk pages. If you have a valid complaint take it to ].] (]) 09:47, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Ok, I give up. You have convinced me, with the evidence you have provided, that Parler is an Jew hating/Anti-semitic social media site. So now you need to shut this thread down and declare victory. And maybe George Orwell will write a book about this someday. ] (]) 14:04, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
:{{re|Jroehl}} Once again, the statement is that ''posts'' on Parler often contain anti-semitic content. But I suppose it is much easier to misrepresent what the article actually says, attack editors, and make wild statements about Orwell than it is to provide reliable sources representing contradictory viewpoints or otherwise base your arguments in policy. If and when you decide you wish to do the latter, this talk page will be here for you. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 17:43, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

::The social media oligarchs in Silicon Valley don't need Misplaced Pages's inordinate support. It wasn't ] and ] that have been hauled before Congress multiple times for abusing their power. It was in fact ], via ], its parent, and ]. ] (]) 19:39, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

== Vote on whether this Misplaced Pages article should label this social media platforms content "Anti-Semitic" ==

Whereas:

1) Several Misplaced Pages's editors have expressed concern over this negative label.

2) The evidence for it's inclusion provides no direct evidence for this (like a count of anti-semitic versus non-anti-semitic content)

3) There appears to mainly only be one editor that seems to be enforcing this negative label and language.

I call for a vote, to remove this characterization from this article.

I vote yes ] (]) 22:22, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

: Look at ] for how to properly format a Request for Comment. A reminder though, consensus isn't determined by voting. And the cards are sort of stacked against your proposal at this point. It isn't just "one editor" who is "enforcing" this. And what {{u|GorillaWarfare}} is saying is correct; this isn't a matter of labeling the platform itself as "Anti-Semitic", but a characterization that the such content proliferates and flourishes on the platform. I'll address your points individually, though:
: 1) It doesn't matter that several editors have disagreed with the content of the article. Most of these people are drive-by and single-purpose editors (]). More to the point, the objections aren't actually based in policy, but on their subjective experiences or personal dislike that it's characterized this way.
: 2) Reliable sources don't have to "provide evidence". They're assumed reliable due to their propensity to fact-check and not publish falsehoods. In other words, they've probably done their research. Most articles aren't written in a way that they'll provide "evidence" for their claims, as this simply isn't the way that articles are usually written by journalist; this is something done more typically in academia. That they aren't providing a statistical analysis of why they're saying so is not a policy-based reason to reject what reliable sources say.
: 3) As I said, it isn't just one editor. GorillaWarfare knows their stuff; they're an administrator and an incredibly experienced one at that, having served in a variety of roles on Misplaced Pages. So when they spell it out for editors like yourself, an editor like me don't typically feel the need to get involved, as we'd just be repeating what they've already said about why that content exists, and why its removal would actually violate policy (per ]).
:If you still want to try to hold an RfC, I won't stop you, but the basis for such an RfC would be faulty, at best. Not reflecting what reliable sources say about a subject is a violation of one of our foundational policies, and anyone closing the RfC would have to take that into consideration. Which means, very likely, that nothing will happen. ] (]) 23:43, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
:: I just realized that my ping to {{u|GorillaWarfare}} wouldn't work since I separated part of the comment from my signature. GorillaWarfare, I'm sure you have this article on your watchlist, but I just pinged you since I mentioned you specifically. Apologies if it was unnecessary. ] (]) 00:07, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Dear Auxiliarus

Now you are part of the team? I thought that GorillaWarfare would get several fellow travelers and vote NO. That tells me your side is weaker than I thought.

>>YouSaid>> It doesn't matter that several editors have disagreed with the content of the article.

Really? And somehow you are an elite and your opinion is superior? Are all people equal, but some people are more equal than others?

>>YouSaid>>subjective experiences or personal dislike

And this doesn't apply to you?

>>YouSaid>>fact-check and not publish falsehoods.

And your defense of attributing hatred of Jews to 3,000,000 million people on a public and open social media site is NOT a falsehood?

>>YouSaid>>they've probably done their research.

Really? Is that your personal opinion?

>>YouSaid>>written by journalist; this is something done more typically in academia.

Woops, you used journalist and academia in the same sentence. Your left wing bias has been identified.

>>YouSaid>>policy-based reason to reject what reliable sources say.

Your "reliable sources" are left wing opinion pieces.

>>YouSaid>>why its removal would actually violate policy (per WP:NPOV).

Again, painting 3 million random people as anti semitic is basically racial hate speech. And it STRONGLY violates (WP:NPOV).

https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view

I do not know if you are here to promote Twitters electronic bulletin board monopoly. I suspect you are. And that would violate "Conflict of interest (COI) editing".

https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest

And if you are, under Misplaced Pages policy, you are compelled to reveal this fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest#COIPAYDISCLOSE

So I would say that, I love Misplaced Pages. And I would like you to take your political and/or economic endeavors elsewhere.

Respectfully, Jeff.
] (]) 01:28, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

:{{re|Jroehl}} If you would like to begin an RfC, ] has been kind enough to point you in the direction of the instructions on how to do so. But you have yet to make an actual policy-based argument for why the term should be removed, and instead seem to be basing it on a misunderstanding of ]. I would recommend formulating one before creating an RfC.
:You also seriously need to stop your baseless accusations against editors, claiming they are being paid by Twitter—first against me, and now against another editor. If you genuinely think one or both of us is participating in ], a serious violation of this website's Terms of Use, follow the instructions at ]. The same goes for your misrepresentations of what Symmachus Auxiliarus has said, and your suggestion that I would canvas this discussion. Take it to a noticeboard, or quit it and focus on the article content rather than trying to smear volunteer editors who are acting in good faith. There is a rule on Misplaced Pages about "]", which specifically disallows what you are doing here: {{tq|An editor must not accuse another of misbehavior without evidence, especially when the accusations are repeated or severe. This especially applies to accusations of being paid by a company to promote a point of view (i.e., a shill) or similar associations and using that to attack or cast doubt over the editor in content disputes. If accusations must be made, they should be raised, with evidence, at appropriate forums such as the user talk page, WP:COIN, or other appropriate places per WP:COI.}} I have already given you more warnings than I need to have, and I won't be giving you any more. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 03:39, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
:This needs to be closed as PA's and soaping.] (]) 09:48, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
:: Thank you, {{u|GorillaWarfare}}. While it's obviously serious on the face of it, the accusations leveled toward me of having a COI, and some of the other comments, are kind of funny. As in laughable. But you're correct; the aspersions and accusations of bad faith are inappropriate. {{u|Jroehl}}, as GorillaWarfare said, you're missing the point (or rather, multiple points) of what I said. And misrepresenting a lot of it. I was courteous and tried to choose my words carefully, but I guess it didn't matter much in this case. I'm not stating my opinion, but rather, everything I said is based in policy. I just chose to state it plainly rather than throw a bunch of links at you. ] means representing proportionally what reliable sources say, and not engaging in any false balance. It's not about avoiding possibly offending the general sensibilities of some readers. I suggest you read the policy page I just linked, as well as ], which explains our sourcing policy, and why some sources are considered more reliable than others. If you're not going to present a policy-based argument for changing the content, and/or start a proper RfC, then there's no point in continuing this thread. And it should probably be closed, as {{u|Slatersteven}} said. If you have a policy-based argument, and you need help forming an RfC so that it's not malformed, I'm perfectly willing to help you there. But as we've said over and over, you're misinterpreting what the text is saying, as it's not claiming that Parler, or its entire user base, is Anti-Semitic. That would be ridiculous. So I'm not even sure that you're actually objecting to anything, really, except the word simply appearing in the article. ] (]) 20:11, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

:In general I support {{u|Jroehl}}'s argument. I oppose using the lede to negatively impact an entity, unless this is truly called for. This entity is not first and foremost antisemitic. Alluding to an antisemitic component pertaining to this entity is ill advised because an abstract concept like antisemitism, or racism for that matter, always gets through, wherever there is human communication. And there are both covert and overt expressions of this nature. This matters because almost ubiquitously the overt versions are suppressed, eventually. Allegations pertaining to antisemitism can be mentioned in the body of the article but they don't belong in the lede of this article. ] (]) 16:33, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
::{{re|Bus stop}} Again, the article is not describing the ''company'' Parler as anti-semitic. It is repeating the well-sourced and properly-weighted fact that anti-semitism is commonly found in Parler posts. I don't see any policy-based reason to remove the descriptor in your argument. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 19:06, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
::{{re|Bus stop}}, I don't think that the intention is to negatively impact any entity, and even it were, the description is itself neutral. We're accurately informing readers by providing contextual information about the subject, as reported in reliable sources. It's simply context, and it's perfectly encyclopedic. And due. I daresay that it's also the primary reason this subject is even notable enough to have an encyclopedia article. If it is somehow "impacting" the subject, that's incidental, and Parler is perfectly capable of remedying it by disallowing anti-Semitism on their platform. Should they so choose. It's not our job to be their public relations committee. The lead reflects the body, so if it's due for the body, it should (or even needs to be) mentioned in the lead. And once again, it's not characterizing Parler, as a platform or company, as Anti-Semitic. It's just describing that such ideology proliferates on the platform. And much like the discussion at the ] article, I have to agree that there's no policy-based argument being presented here to deny us accurately describing a significant aspect of the subject, as reliable sources do. I get that you perhaps don't like it, but that's just, well... ]. ] (]) 20:29, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

:::{{tq|"that anti-semitism is commonly found in Parler posts"}} as it is found everywhere. It is ubiquitous. I would hazard a guess there is as much antisemitism on Twitter as there is on Parler, not to mention ]. I simply didn't want to argue with you any longer at where you made similar arguments although not necessarily pertaining to antisemitism: {{tq|"Which, again, is what reliable sources have to say about the site"}}. Everything does not warrant inclusion in the lede. You say {{tq|"the article is not describing the company Parler as anti-semitic"}}. If the company fails to suppress antisemitism adequately, then the implication is that the company is antisemitic. This is in response to both of the above editors addressing me. ] (]) 22:36, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
::::Our own evaluation of the level of antisemitism on Parler or Twitter is not relevant. The fact of the matter is that reliable sources constantly describe the content of Parler posts as far-right/antisemitic/etc. Some reliable sources also discuss various objectionable content in tweets, but that is not nearly as highly represented among the entirety of the available sourcing, and is also a conversation better suited to ]. You're correct that every statement doesn't warrant inclusion in the lead, but ] explains that the lead {{tq|should identify the topic, establish context, explain why the topic is notable, and summarize the most important points, including any prominent controversies.}} The level of far-right/antisemitic/etc. content on Parler is worth mentioning for all of those last four reasons.{{pb}}And actually, while we're here, could you clarify if you're suggesting just "antisemitism" ought to be removed, or if the whole sentence ("Posts on the website often contain far-right content, antisemitism, and conspiracy theories.") ought to go? It seems like you're arguing just the former (and I think ] is as well), and I'd be curious to know why you object to that specific descriptor but not the others. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 23:00, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
:::: I'm being completely honest here. I don't see how {{tq|"If the company fails to suppress antisemitism adequately, then the implication is that the company is antisemitic"}} is true, or how that's in any way a logical conclusion to jump to for anyone reading. It's in fact a leap that requires the reader to adopt a logical fallacy, from what I can see. We can't control how people think, if they're making an inference based on guilt by association or that this somehow correlates. We're not implying anything by including this, and I'm honestly trying to understand how anyone could think it means anything other than "they have issues with Anti-semitism on their platform". I would, personally, infer that their continued revenue probably depends on the users who post these things being allowed to go unchallenged on the platform. Or perhaps that they're just so into the notion of a "marketplace of ideas" that they choose not to intervene, even when it could conceivably poison the well of such a marketplace and lead to its radicalization. But then again, I don't know, and it's not Misplaced Pages's role to lead me to form any such opinion. This is hot air at this point. The ideology having a heyday on the platform is one of the few things that makes it notable, and pretty much the only thing reliable sources write about the platform, so it needs to go in. Any major information about a subject, including the way the media characterizes its use, would need to be in a lead. I'm not sure I understand what you're disputing, to be honest, if you think it's perfectly due for the article body. ] (]) 22:57, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

:::::GorillaWarfare—you are asking me {{tq|And actually, while we're here, could you clarify if you're suggesting just "antisemitism" ought to be removed, or if the whole sentence ("Posts on the website often contain far-right content, antisemitism, and conspiracy theories.") ought to go?}} The commonplace, the unsurprising, the ubiquitous, doesn't belong in the lede. "Antisemitism" is particularly problematic because it only applies to Jews whereas "far-right content" and "conspiracy theories" could be about other identities. I think it would be wise to remove from the lede all 3 ("far-right content, antisemitism, and conspiracy theories") but it is especially important that we don't single out Jews in the lede of an article ostensibly about a "microblogging and social networking service". We would mention antisemitism in the lede if this were an exceptionally egregious characteristic of this social networking site. Do sources set ''Parler'' apart from other microblogging and social networking services? Are sources saying for instance that ''Parler, unlike Twitter, has antisemitic content?'' ] (]) 13:06, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
::::::That antisemitism is as widespread elsewhere as it is on Parler appears to me to be no more than ]. The fact of the matter is that reliable sources widely describe far-right content, including antisemitism in particular, on Parler—so too should we. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 17:20, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

:::::::No, it isn't {{tq|"original research"}} because I am not asserting that {{tq|"antisemitism is as widespread elsewhere as it is on Parler"}}. I'm saying stop making a mountain out of a molehill. Unsurprising observations need not be noted in the lede. Show me the source providing commentary on the comparative presence of antisemitic content on the various social networking websites. ] (]) 18:30, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
::::::::Per ]: {{tq|As in the body of the article itself, the emphasis given to material in the lead should roughly reflect its importance to the topic, according to reliable, published sources.}} The far-right content and antisemitism is mentioned prominently in reliable sources, including being the primary subject of several, and so the lead should reflect that. I wholly disagree that the level of far-right content and antisemitism in posts on Parler is "unsurprising", and the sources seem to agree with me given they've covered it in depth. Even if all social networks had the same level of antisemitism as Parler, if it was remarked upon in reliable sources with the same prominence as it is for Parler, I would argue it should be mentioned at all of those articles, too. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 18:53, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

:::::::::You don't have a source supporting a high {{tq|"level of far-right content and antisemitism in posts on Parler"}}. A high level of content is always relative to a level of content found elsewhere. ] (]) 19:26, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::I am referring to the sources I presented higher up in this section (look for the bulleted list) which remark on the far-right content, antisemitism, etc. in Parler posts. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 19:28, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

:::::::::::Yes, those sources aren't comparing this entity to similar entities. A high level of content is always relative to a level of content found elsewhere. ] (]) 19:31, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::::And as I said in my 18:53, the sourcing discussing it to the extent they do is sufficient to include it. I get the feeling we're not going to agree on this, so it may be best to just each of us present our opinions concisely and allow an independent reviewer to determine consensus—because this is a perennial discussion on this talk page I'm thinking of just starting an RfC so consensus can be firmly determined and we can stop with the periodic rehashing of the same points. Do you think that's worth doing? ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 19:35, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

:::::::::::::Why are you not content with relegating this quotidian piece of information to the body of the article? ] (]) 19:39, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
{{od|:::::::::::::}} I think it's pretty clear from all my comments, but if not: I disagree that it's quotidian, and I think both ] and the prominence in sourcing support mentioning it in the lead. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 19:40, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

:You {{tq|"disagree that it's quotidian"}} but you have not provided a source indicating the relative presence of antisemitism at Parler and for instance ]. ] (]) 19:49, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
::I think this should be evaluated per-article based on that article's sourcing, and I'm not going to keep repeating that. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 19:54, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

:::GorillaWarfare—wherever there is the exchange of ideas there will be overt or covert references to racism, antisemitism, transphobia, anti-Catholicism, and so on. This is par for the course. You are making a big deal out of nothing. Heavily used social media sites inevitably include badmouthing of people. It is hard to be avoided. Why would the observation of this warrant a place in our lede? ] (]) 20:11, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
::::You are asking the same question over and over again, and I am not going to give the same response over and over. I have started a formal discussion below; feel free to present your opinion and the closer can decide on its legitimacy. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 20:15, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

:::::The lede shouldn't be used to detract from the site unless a flaw in the site rises to a level warranting its presence in our lede. This is silly stuff. It is Twitter which was dragged before Congress more than once for censorship, yet not a word is found of that in the lede of that article. You are making a mountain out of a molehill by insisting that it is insufficient that the Parler article mention in the body of the article that these allegations of antisemitism etc. exist. A lede is not a billboard. Its purpose is not to give prominence to quotidian observations. ] (]) 20:35, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

== RfC: Should "antisemitism" be removed from the lead? ==

{{rfc|pol|soc|sci|rfcid=75D4CF8}}

The second sentence of the lead currently reads: {{tqb|Posts on the website often contain ] content, ], and ].}}

Should we:
* '''Option 1''': Retain the current wording.
* '''Option 2''': Remove "antisemitism", making the sentence read, "Posts on the website often contain far-right content and conspiracy theories."
* '''Option 3''': Remove "antisemitism" and "far-right content", making the sentence read, "Posts on the website often contain conspiracy theories."
* '''Option 4''': Remove the entire sentence.
]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 20:00, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Same sentence, but with references: {{tqb|Posts on the website often contain ] content,{{refn|name="far-right-posts"|<ref name="forward">{{Cite web|last=Saul|first=Isaac|date=July 18, 2019|title=This Twitter Alternative Was Supposed To Be Nicer, But Bigots Love It Already|url=https://forward.com/news/national/427705/parler-news-white-supremacist-islamophobia-laura-loomer/|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20200630205321/https://forward.com/news/national/427705/parler-news-white-supremacist-islamophobia-laura-loomer/|archive-date=June 30, 2020|access-date=August 4, 2020|website=]}}</ref><ref name="newstatesman">{{Cite web|last=Manavis|first=Sarah|date=June 23, 2020|title=What is Parler? Inside the pro-Trump "unbiased" platform|url=https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/social-media/2020/06/parler-trump-platform-katie-hopkins-social-media-twitter-alt-right|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20200625160427/https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/social-media/2020/06/parler-trump-platform-katie-hopkins-social-media-twitter-alt-right|archive-date=June 25, 2020|access-date=June 26, 2020|website=]}}</ref><ref name="bulwark">{{Cite web|last=Miller|first=Tim|last2=Yoest|first2=Hannah|date=June 26, 2020|title=The Gross Hellscape That Awaits Ted Cruz on Parler|url=https://thebulwark.com/the-gross-hellscape-that-awaits-ted-cruz-on-parler/|url-status=live|archive-url=|archive-date=|access-date=November 7, 2020|website=]|language=en-US}}</ref><ref name=":14">{{Cite web|last=Sullivan|first=Mark|date=June 27, 2020|title=I joined Parler, the right-wing echo chamber's new favorite alt-Twitter|url=https://www.fastcompany.com/90522049/i-joined-parler-the-right-wing-echo-chambers-new-favorite-alt-twitter|url-status=live|archive-url=|archive-date=|access-date=August 5, 2020|website=]|language=en-US}}</ref><ref name=":4">{{Cite web|last=Knowles|first=David|date=June 22, 2020|title=Parler, a right-wing social media site, lures conservatives, but Trump sticks with Twitter — so far|url=https://news.yahoo.com/parler-a-rightwing-social-media-site-lures-conservatives-but-trump-sticks-with-twitter-so-far-190151349.html|url-status=live|archive-url=|archive-date=|access-date=August 5, 2020|website=]|language=en-US}}</ref>}} ],{{refn|name="antisemitic-posts"|<ref name="forward" /><ref name="independent 2020-06-25">{{Cite web|last=Smith|first=Adam|date=June 22, 2020|title=What is the right-wing Parler app that MPs and celebrities are joining?|url=https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/parler-app-mps-right-wing-twitter-katie-hopkins-a9579241.html|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20200630124918/https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/parler-app-mps-right-wing-twitter-katie-hopkins-a9579241.html|archive-date=June 30, 2020|access-date=August 4, 2020|website=]|language=en}}</ref><ref name="newstatesman" /><ref>{{Cite news|last=|first=|date=July 8, 2020|title=A conservative social network that 'rejects fact checkers' gains ground in the US|work=]|agency=]|url=https://www.deccanchronicle.com/technology/in-other-news/080720/no-nipples-or-penises-but-lies-stay-erect-on-this-conservative-social.html|url-status=live|access-date=November 7, 2020}}</ref>}} and ].{{refn|name="conspiracy-theory-posts"|<ref name="newstatesman" /><ref name="forward" /><ref name="bulwark"/>}}}}

{{reflist-talk}}

]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 20:00, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

*'''Option 1: Retain the current wording.''' This sentence is well-sourced:
{{User:GorillaWarfare/Parler sources|1}}
:Although I believe this latest iteration on the perennial discussion about this sentence was begun in bad faith (by the user accusing me and another user of engaging in undisclosed paid editing on behalf of Twitter), I think this should be settled via formal consensus so we don't have to keep revisiting this every few months. The latest discussion only mentioned removing "antisemitism" (option 2) but I included options 3 and 4 just for completeness' sake.
:The claim made above that the level of antisemitism/far-right content found on Parler is not unusual or substantially different than the level on Twitter or other social networks is unfounded, and the fact that it has been so prominently mentioned in sourcing justifies inclusion in the lead. First, this is not the place to discuss what should or shouldn't be included in other articles like ], but furthermore, if reliable sources commented on the level of this kind of content on Twitter with the same prominence they do on Parler, I would support including it there, too. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 20:05, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

::GorillaWarfare—is there an advantage to compartmentalized thinking, in this instance? Why isn't this the {{tq|"place to discuss what should or shouldn't be included in other articles like Twitter"}}? I understand that we can discuss that on the Twitter Talk page. But an apt comparison might be the ledes of these 2 articles. The CEO of Twitter was subpoenaed to appear before the ] for the blocking of the ] among other issues. Is this mentioned in the lede? No. The lede of the ] article contains no criticism of that entity at all—only glowing claims of the Left-leaning entity's accomplishments. ] (]) 00:39, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
:::For many reasons, generally summarized at ]. Many editors here (myself included) have not been involved in editing the Twitter article nor particularly wish to be; furthermore, having a conversation here about changes to that article makes it harder for editors of that article to weigh in. If you think anything at the Twitter article ought to be changed, discuss it there, not here. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 00:43, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

::::We are not {{tq|"having a conversation here about changes to that article"}}. As I've explained the ledes are comparable. Perhaps I should have said that the ledes ''may be'' comparable. ] (]) 00:56, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

*'''Option 1''' Not seeing a reason to change here. ] (]) 23:38, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

*'''Option 1''' The information in question is well sourced, as shown in detail by GorillaWarfare. ] (]) 04:37, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
* '''Option 1''' Its well source, there is no counter claim from any RS its not the case. Just because not all RS say the sea is wet does not mean its not.] (]) 10:53, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
* '''Comment''' Apparently the source from 22 October 2020 has used Option 1 text verbatim. Despite citing Reuters/The Independent, neither of those sources make this exact conclusion about posts on the website. One more example of citogenesis/]. --] (]) 11:23, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
** '''Option 2/4''' Per my earlier in August. Only The Forward and New Statesman mention anti-semitism. This gives a lot of weight for these sources for it to appear in the lead, since plenty of heavier sources like BBC/WaPo have covered Parler and do not make the statement. The "often contain" wording is also not ideal as it's inaccurate (how often?). The gist, as I see it, is that they have had far-right hashtags trending and they allow some conspirational/far-right content that Twitter does not. It should be possible to convey this in the lead without trying to quantify whether the website has these posts ''often''. But to make things more complex, the has published an article detailing how Parler in fact has stricter moderatation than Twitter when it comes to some areas. --] (]) 11:45, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
::: Not sure that article actually says that. Vaguely mentions bans for nudity and infighting? Does have someone say they prefer Parler to Twitter because content won't get defined as "hate speech". ] (]) 15:18, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
:::It's not true that only ''The Forward'' and ''New Statesman'' mention anti-semitism—look at citation #10 in the sentence above. ''Deccan Chronicle'' and ''The Independent'' also support the claim. The RFE/RL sentence is not quite verbatim (RFE/RL uses "extremist" whereas this article does not) but you're right that it is awfully close... I'll remove it just to be safe. Regarding the comments on moderation, that topic is addressed at ]. While it's true that sources have pointed out some of Parler's rules are stricter than Twitters, they are generally commenting on Parler's more unusual rules (for example, forbidding "fighting words" and discussion of marijuana) rather than rules around hate speech. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 17:25, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
* '''Comment'''. Misplaced Pages should tone down the commentary. We aren't opinion-makers. We are information-providers. Unless commentary rises to the level of being a fundamental component of what an entity is, such commentary should be confined to the body of an article. Is Parler fundamentally antisemitic? I reject the explanation provided above by GorillaWarfare that {{tq|"the article is not describing the company Parler as anti-semitic"}}. If the company fails to suppress antisemitism adequately, then the implication is that the company is antisemitic. In the body of the article we have ample space for documenting allegations about anti-Jewish activity noted at Parler. The lede is being abused when it includes language such as "Posts on the website often contain far-right content, antisemitism, and conspiracy theories." That's not what Misplaced Pages is for. The purpose of Misplaced Pages is different from that of a ]. Our raison d'être is not the promotion of the pet theories of our editors. Yes, we all have biases, but we should not be abusing the ledes of articles to advertise our opinions. ] (]) 15:10, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
:I shouldn't single out GorillaWarfare as I do in my above post. I am also in disagreement with Symmachus Auxiliarus, who wrote {{tq|"it's not characterizing Parler, as a platform or company, as Anti-Semitic"}}. If the company fails to suppress antisemitism adequately, then the implication is that the company is antisemitic. ] (]) 17:37, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
:*'''Option 4: Remove the entire sentence'''. The commonplace, the unsurprising, and the ubiquitous, don't belong in the lede. Wherever there is the exchange of ideas there will be overt or covert references to racism, antisemitism, transphobia, anti-Catholicism, and so on. This is par for the course. Heavily used social media sites inevitably have participants badmouthing other participants. If this is not overt then it is covert. It is virtually unavoidable. A lede is not a ]. Its purpose is not to give prominence to quotidian observations. ] (]) 15:10, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

*'''Option 4: Remove the entire sentence''' We all know why some people would like to cast aspersions on Parler. It is a right leaning website that is attempting to competing with a left wing social media monopoly. We should not bring our political biases into Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 15:25, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
*:{{re|Jroehl}} Up to you whether you take my advice or not, but when an uninvolved editor comes along to close this RfC, they will evaluate its result based on the strength of the arguments and not upon a simple count of "votes". Your argument would be much stronger if you chose to base it in Misplaced Pages policy rather than continuing your vague aspersions against the editors of this page, who you have baselessly claimed have a financial conflict of interest with respect to Twitter. ]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 17:34, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

== Extreme bias in app's summary shows lack of objectivity and balance ==


Proposed edit:
All social networks have extreme view points and can be argued between left and right until doomsday with proof for both sides. To publish that only Parler has extreme view points (anti-semitism, etc.) without acknowledging the plethora of references for the same accusation for all other social media platforms is misleading. Misplaced Pages is meant to be as a unbiased as possible, which is why peer editing is allowed and common. Just the summary of this page reeks with left-wing bias (please note that left- and right-wing persons can be and are anti-semitic, etc.) and in consequence should not be considered by the average person to be reliable and objective.


On February 9, 2024, under the new ownership of PDS Partners LLC, Parler's social media outlets announced a relaunch of the social media service, simultaneously updating the website with a form to allow visitors to register for announcements regarding the platform's reopening.
This seems to be a common concern among editors trying to help and says more about the bias of the editors lording over this page than the app itself.
In April 2024, Parlement Technologies, Parler's former parent, not affiliated with PDS Partners LLC, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, listing total assets and liabilities of between $10 million and $50 million.


Source: https://thehill.com/policy/technology/4371907-defunct-social-media-app-parler-planning-2024-comeback/ ] (]) 21:25, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
Save the controversial opinions for a separate segment of the page, at the very least to keep the app's brief summary uncluttered and, well, brief. ] (]) 17:54, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
:Then take it to those pages and get them altered, we go with what RS say.] (]) 17:57, 8 November 2020 (UTC)


:Is this the source you are also proposing for the requests above that don't name a source? ~] <small>(])</small> 05:28, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
== Semi-protected edit request on 8 November 2020 ==
:When it is relaunched as can say it, until it actually is this is just a statement of intent. ] (]) 12:05, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
::Thank you SlaterSteven, yes the website is live and has been for roughly 5 months. You can go to app.parler.com and create an account and test it yourself. As to the documentation for the change of ownership to PDS Partners LLC, I will be providing that soon. ] (]) 15:21, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
:::As I recall that website has been mentioned before, and it was not actually a social media site. And no Im am not gonna sign up to it, provide some third party coverage of it. ] (]) 16:15, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Hi SlaterSteven,
::::Parler is live on the app stores as well as in the browser. You wouldn't need to create an account to see that.
::::
::::/
::::In the first section of the wikipedia article (paragraph 5) it states " The platform itself remains inaccessible, but the website has been restored." which is false, because it is now accessible and has been since at least March 2024.
::::Sorry I'm new to editing so any help in getting at least that section corrected would be greatly appreciated!
::::Thank you! ] (]) 21:45, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
:::::The first thing you want to familiarize yourself with is ]. We prefer secondary sources - i.e., coverage in reputable news sources, to primary sources, such as the site itself. ] (]) 21:48, 30 August 2024 (UTC)


] '''Not done:''' please provide ] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> An article from 2023 is not a valid source for a thing that (allegedly) happened in 2024. Please feel free to reopen any of these requests if supported with a valid source. ] (]) 21:46, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
{{edit semi-protected|Parler|answered=no}}
Please review this. The description of the site is VERY biased. In the past I have considered Misplaced Pages to be a fairly reliable source of information that expressed FACTS and not OPINIONS.
I will never again contribute to or recognize Misplaced Pages as a reliable source if I continue to see this type of bias on the site.


:Thanks PianoDan. The sale of Parler to PDS Partners LLC did occur in October 2023, as shown here. https://www.silicon.co.uk/e-enterprise/merger-acquisition/controversial-parler-platform-set-for-2024-return-543964 It seems then that you aren't able to use legal documents as proof, you would want a secondary source showing the subsequent sale of Parler from PDS Partners LLC to Parler Cloud Technologies LLC. Let me revisit that. At the very least, can you edit the 5th paragraph in the first section that says that Parler isn't accessible? Wired magazine states that the website is live. https://www.wired.com/story/parler-app-store-free-speech-censorship/ Thank you! ] (]) 22:03, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
Parler is a United States-based microblogging and social networking service launched in August 2018. Parler has a significant user base of Trump supporters, conservatives, and Saudi nationalists. Posts on the website often contain far-right content, antisemitism, and conspiracy theories. The site has been described as an alternative to Twitter, and is popular among people who have been banned from mainstream social networks, or who oppose their moderation policies. The site markets itself as a "free speech" and unbiased alternative to mainstream social networks such as Twitter and Facebook. However, journalists and users have criticized the service for content policies that are more restrictive than the company portrays, and sometimes more restrictive than those of its competitors. As of July 2020, the site had 2.8 million users, many of whom joined in mid-2020. ] (]) 18:08, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
::"ahead of its official relaunch", we need sources that post date its relaunch discussing it as a functioning social media site and not (as it was at least at one point) a blog. ] (]) 16:45, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Hi SlaterSteven, here is a source showing that Parler is back. .
:::Two major celebrities and influencers have announced that it is back, both Tucker Carlson and Megyn Kelly. Here is Megyn Kelly's own youtube channel with 2.3 million followers where she announces Parler is back. This announcement was made on June 3, 2024. https://youtube.com/c3voK-jghUs?si=zbHSEJEBJJdbEwUX
:::The CMO (Chief marketing officer) of Parler, Elise Pierotti who is also mentioned in news articles, also corroborated the relaunch being official on June 3rd, 2024. https://x.com/ElisePierotti/status/1797743230173483299
:::https://www.instagram.com/parler_social/reel/C9gAdDuJuh2/ Tucker Carlson
:::
:::https://www.instagram.com/parler_social/reel/C7y79zoRLw6/ Megny Kelly
:::Both Megyn Kelly and Tucker Carlson are considered experts in news, with considerable experience as news anchors. Tucker Carlson was a prominent anchor on Fox News.
::: "Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established expert on the subject matter, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications."
:::Per ]
:::Here is Tucker Carlson on July 25th 2024 promoting the Parler app on a tweet from his official account. https://x.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1816527113824141561
:::Please correct the 5th paragraph on the Misplaced Pages article that states parler.com is "inaccessible". @] ] (]) 04:39, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
::::And I say again, we need to know how it is back, as the last time we had this discussion it was a blog (in other words the name was back, not the social media site). And no Youtube and Instagram posts are not RS. ] (]) 09:34, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

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? view · edit Frequently asked questions This section is here to provide answers to some questions that have been previously discussed on this talk page. Q1: Why does the lead of this article say that posts on Parler often contain antisemitism? A1: A request for comment determined that this statement should be included in the lead: Talk:Parler/Archive 2#RfC: Should "antisemitism" be removed from the lead? Q2: Why does this article look different than articles about other social networks, like Twitter? A2: The coverage of Parler in reliable sources is very different from the coverage of Twitter. We strive to represent fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic (WP:NPOV), and so if the sourcing is very different, the articles will be too. If you think changes need to be made to another article, please discuss them at that article's talk page. When contributing to this talk page, please keep in mind WP:OTHERCONTENT.It is worth noting that this article is quite similar to other articles on social networks and websites which are also known for extremist userbases, such as Gab, 8chan, BitChute, etc.
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5th paragraph

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Current (5th paragraph near very beginning

"On December 15, 2023, the company was sold to a new co-owner group consisting of Ryan Rhodes, Elise Pierotti and Jaco Booyens. Ryan Rhodes was appointed CEO. A 2024 relaunch was hinted at by the new ownership soon after the company purchase. In January 2024, the company's external social media outlets officially restarted operations to announce the relaunch. The platform itself remains inaccessible, but the website has been restored." https://en.wikipedia.org/Parler

Proposed Edit:

On December 15, 2023, the company was sold to PDS Partners LLC. A 2024 relaunch was hinted at by the new ownership soon after the company purchase. In January 2024, the company's external social media outlets officially restarted operations to announce the relaunch. The platform became accessible and operational as of March 15th, 2024. Ryanhartwig (talk) 19:20, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. PianoDan (talk) 20:47, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Company

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(last paragraph) current:

“On December 15th, Parler was bought from Starboard by Ryan Rhodes, Elise Pierotti and Jaco Booyens”

proposed edit:

On December 15th, 2023, Parler was bought from Starboard by PDS Partners LLC Ryanhartwig (talk) 19:22, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. PianoDan (talk) 20:48, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you PianoDan, I have a copy of the asset purchase agreement that shows the sale from Starboard to PDS Partners LLC. The document shows Ryan Rhodes as CEO which has previously been corroborated. Please advise on how to provide that document to you. This reliable source also shows that Parler was sold to PDS Partners LLC. https://www.silicon.co.uk/e-enterprise/merger-acquisition/controversial-parler-platform-set-for-2024-return-543964 Ryanhartwig (talk) 21:53, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

2024 relaunch

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Current: On February 9, 2024, Parler's social media outlets announced a relaunch of the social media service, simultaneously updating the website with a form to allow visitors to register for announcements regarding the platform's reopening. In April 2024, Parlement Technologies, Parler's former parent, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, listing total assets and liabilities of between $10 million and $50 million.

Proposed edit:

On February 9, 2024, under the new ownership of PDS Partners LLC, Parler's social media outlets announced a relaunch of the social media service, simultaneously updating the website with a form to allow visitors to register for announcements regarding the platform's reopening. In April 2024, Parlement Technologies, Parler's former parent, not affiliated with PDS Partners LLC, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, listing total assets and liabilities of between $10 million and $50 million.

Source: https://thehill.com/policy/technology/4371907-defunct-social-media-app-parler-planning-2024-comeback/ Ryanhartwig (talk) 21:25, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Is this the source you are also proposing for the requests above that don't name a source? ~Anachronist (talk) 05:28, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
When it is relaunched as can say it, until it actually is this is just a statement of intent. Slatersteven (talk) 12:05, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
Thank you SlaterSteven, yes the website is live and has been for roughly 5 months. You can go to app.parler.com and create an account and test it yourself. As to the documentation for the change of ownership to PDS Partners LLC, I will be providing that soon. Ryanhartwig (talk) 15:21, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
As I recall that website has been mentioned before, and it was not actually a social media site. And no Im am not gonna sign up to it, provide some third party coverage of it. Slatersteven (talk) 16:15, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
Hi SlaterSteven,
Parler is live on the app stores as well as in the browser. You wouldn't need to create an account to see that. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.parler.parler&hl=en_US&gl=US
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/parler/id1402727988
https://parler.com/
In the first section of the wikipedia article (paragraph 5) it states " The platform itself remains inaccessible, but the website has been restored." which is false, because it is now accessible and has been since at least March 2024.
Sorry I'm new to editing so any help in getting at least that section corrected would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you! Ryanhartwig (talk) 21:45, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
The first thing you want to familiarize yourself with is WP:RS. We prefer secondary sources - i.e., coverage in reputable news sources, to primary sources, such as the site itself. PianoDan (talk) 21:48, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. An article from 2023 is not a valid source for a thing that (allegedly) happened in 2024. Please feel free to reopen any of these requests if supported with a valid source. PianoDan (talk) 21:46, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks PianoDan. The sale of Parler to PDS Partners LLC did occur in October 2023, as shown here. https://www.silicon.co.uk/e-enterprise/merger-acquisition/controversial-parler-platform-set-for-2024-return-543964 It seems then that you aren't able to use legal documents as proof, you would want a secondary source showing the subsequent sale of Parler from PDS Partners LLC to Parler Cloud Technologies LLC. Let me revisit that. At the very least, can you edit the 5th paragraph in the first section that says that Parler isn't accessible? Wired magazine states that the website is live. https://www.wired.com/story/parler-app-store-free-speech-censorship/ Thank you! Ryanhartwig (talk) 22:03, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
"ahead of its official relaunch", we need sources that post date its relaunch discussing it as a functioning social media site and not (as it was at least at one point) a blog. Slatersteven (talk) 16:45, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
Hi SlaterSteven, here is a source showing that Parler is back. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2024/03/22/gamergate-2-0-targets-sweet-baby-parler-back-online/73058996007/#:~:text=Controversial%20social%20media%20platform%20Parler%20is%20back&text=The%20site%20had%20become%20a,year%2C%20it%20was%20shut%20down.
Two major celebrities and influencers have announced that it is back, both Tucker Carlson and Megyn Kelly. Here is Megyn Kelly's own youtube channel with 2.3 million followers where she announces Parler is back. This announcement was made on June 3, 2024. https://youtube.com/c3voK-jghUs?si=zbHSEJEBJJdbEwUX
The CMO (Chief marketing officer) of Parler, Elise Pierotti who is also mentioned in news articles, also corroborated the relaunch being official on June 3rd, 2024. https://x.com/ElisePierotti/status/1797743230173483299
https://www.instagram.com/parler_social/reel/C9gAdDuJuh2/ Tucker Carlson
https://www.instagram.com/parler_social/reel/C7y79zoRLw6/ Megny Kelly
Both Megyn Kelly and Tucker Carlson are considered experts in news, with considerable experience as news anchors. Tucker Carlson was a prominent anchor on Fox News.
"Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established expert on the subject matter, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications."
Per https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources
Here is Tucker Carlson on July 25th 2024 promoting the Parler app on a tweet from his official account. https://x.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1816527113824141561
Please correct the 5th paragraph on the Misplaced Pages article that states parler.com is "inaccessible". @PianoDan Ryanhartwig (talk) 04:39, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
And I say again, we need to know how it is back, as the last time we had this discussion it was a blog (in other words the name was back, not the social media site). And no Youtube and Instagram posts are not RS. Slatersteven (talk) 09:34, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
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