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* ] '''Agreed''' 14 Aug – 19 Sep 2015 |
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* ] '''Agreed''' 14 Aug – 19 Sep 2015 |
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* RM, Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant → ISIS, '''Not moved''', 20 Oct – 27 Oct 2016, ] |
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* RM, Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant → ISIS, '''Not moved''', 20 Oct – 27 Oct 2016, ] |
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# Islamic State of Iraq and Syria → Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, '''Moved''', 13 August 2013, ] |
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# Islamic State of Iraq and Syria → Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, '''Moved''', 13 August 2013, ] |
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# RM, Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant → Islamic State (islamist rebel group), '''No consensus''', 9 Jan – 17 Jan 2015, ] |
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# RM, Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant → Islamic State (islamist rebel group), '''No consensus''', 9 Jan – 17 Jan 2015, ] |
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# RM, Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant → Islamic State, '''Not moved''', 19 Apr – 20 Apr 2015, ] |
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# RM, Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant → Islamic State, '''Not moved''', 19 Apr – 20 Apr 2015, ] |
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# RM, Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant → Islamic State (IS), '''Not moved''', 15 Jul – 29 Jul 2015, ] |
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# RM, Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant → Islamic State (IS), '''Not moved''', 15 Jul – 29 Jul 2015, ]}} |
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{{old move|date=14 December 2024|destination=Islamic State (militant group)|result=not moved|link=Special:Permalink/1264338464#Requested move 14 December 2024}} |
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== Why was the comparison with colonial/revolutionary france removed? == |
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== Requested Move 15 October 2024 == |
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<div class="boilerplate mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: var(--background-color-success-subtle, #efe); color: var(--color-base, inherit); margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted var(--border-color-subtle, #AAAAAA);"><!-- Template:RM top --> |
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:''The following is a closed discussion of a ]. <span style="color: var(--color-error, red);">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a ] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.'' |
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The result of the move request was: '''Not moved.''' We normally keep RM discussions open for at least seven days with a possibility for prolongation via relisting. This discussion has now been open for more than four weeks. The request suggested a move to {{-r|Islamic State (organisation)}}, a target that for several years has been a stable and correctly ] {{tl|R from unnecessary disambiguation}} redirect to ].{{pb}}The proposal to move has seen no policy-based support. The opposers argue per ] and ] that the article should stay at the ], ''ergo'' the survey is closed noting a clear '''consensus not to move'''. <small>(])</small> ] ] 17:14, 13 November 2024 (UTC) |
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]→? — Current name is just the "Islamic State", it’s can confuse readers with article about the ]. I don’t' suggest it to rename the article to ISIL, beacuse "ISIL" is not common name anymore and pretty outdated. |
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So let's rename the article to ]. ISIS can be also suitable beacuse "ISIS" is currently common name to the group. ] (]) 06:08, 15 October 2024 (UTC) |
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:'''Oppose''' Islamic State is the common name for the organization, being the one used by the media. The organization is also the clear primary topic for the name "Islamic State" with this capitalization. The hatnote at the top of the article is good enough to clear up any confusion. ] (]) 19:07, 20 October 2024 (UTC) |
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::Hi ], Naming the article "]" would be a more appropriate solution, as it clarifies that the article specifically refers to the militant group commonly known as ISIS, while distinguishing it from the broader and more diverse theoretical concept of an "Islamic State." This title would help avoid confusion, making it clear that the focus is on the organization rather than the general political or religious concept. By adding the term "organization," it also provides a more neutral and descriptive approach, acknowledging that the term "Islamic State" has broader historical and theoretical meanings, which should not be conflated with this particular group.The normal readers are not supposed to distinguish this minute difference. |
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::--] <!--Template:Undated--><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added 18:56, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</small> |
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:::Please convey your thoughts in your own words, chatbots are not helpful. - ] (]) 02:49, 12 November 2024 (UTC) |
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* '''Oppose''' as per ] that is what the organization calls itself.] (]) 07:16, 11 November 2024 (UTC) |
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*:"that is what the organization calls itself" |
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*:Why we would use "]". Article about the concept is " ] ", about the group is " Islamic State ". Just ] is difference. That's why I start an RM. We can use " ] or "]. ] (]) 03:19, 12 November 2024 (UTC) |
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*::I would rather move the article on the concept to ] if you think something needs to be moved. The organization is what most users are looking for when they type "Islamic State" into the search bar. ] (]) 12:40, 12 November 2024 (UTC) |
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*:::@] Ok. |
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*:::I forget this opinion when I propose this in October. ] (]) 10:17, 13 November 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' - It is the common name. - ] (]) 02:47, 12 November 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Support''' – I endorse ] proposal to modify the article title for enhanced clarity and accuracy. Currently, “Islamic State” as a title risks conflating the militant group with the broader concept of an “Islamic state,” a political or theological idea concerning governance within Islamic contexts. This ambiguity can lead to misunderstandings and unintentionally lend an inappropriate connotation to either the organization or the general concept. |
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*:] (]) 08:31, 12 November 2024 (UTC) |
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*:@] This RM is not closed but you still moved article about the organisation as "]". You should wait until the problem get solution. ] (]) 10:21, 13 November 2024 (UTC) |
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<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: var(--color-error, red);">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from ] --> |
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== "‘You are next’: online posts show Islamic State interest in attacks on US ahead of election" == |
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] ] 11:16, 20 October 2024 (UTC) |
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:@] Cite reliable sources to confirm it. ] (]) 08:42, 14 November 2024 (UTC) |
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::@] Why didn't you bother to look first? That would be the sensible idea and sholw good faith. The first hit is ] ] 11:35, 14 November 2024 (UTC) |
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== Very small Minor edit request == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Islamic State|answered=yes}} |
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Add an collapsible list into groups infobox, it's very long. <br><small>(''this topic will be deleted after accepting'')</small> ] (]) 19:25, 9 November 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{done}}. ~] <small>(])</small> 20:49, 11 November 2024 (UTC) |
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== First sentence == |
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I have removed, from the first sentence of the article, (uncited) text that calls ISIL an "] ]." It is true that, as of 2024, affiliates of the terror group hold territorial control over shifting areas of Africa (which we mention in the lead section), but the preponderance of sources (or at least the sources currently cited) don't seem to commonly use the "quasi-state" verbiage to describe ISIL presently - certainly not at a frequency sufficient to justify its inclusion in the lead. Neither of the two sources cited on the present situation in Africa (, ) use the term. Given all that, the "quasi-state" language is more likely to confuse readers than enlighten them, especially as it seems to conflate the situation a decade ago (2012/2013 era) with the situation today. (Note, too, that there are many terror/insurgent groups that occupy territory but are not commonly described as "quasi-states." ]<sup>]</sup> 19:03, 14 November 2024 (UTC) |
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== Proposal to include IS-CP and Add a Section on Involvement within the borders of the Russian Federation == |
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The article shows a significant plurality of foreign fighters in Islamic State originating from The Russian Federation yet there is no mention of either IS-CP or the link to Chechan extremists/terrorists nor the direct involvemnet of Al-Qaeada fighters in the Second Chechen War and activities of IS-CP in Russia since inception of Islamic State/Daesh and it's military defeat two years later. |
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I prepose inclusion of links to the main article for IS-CP in the article summary as well as a summary of IS-CP operations within the Caucuses. I'm interested in any discussion/contributions before amending the article. ] (]) 15:12, 22 November 2024 (UTC) |
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It is a relevant comparison for people to see to see the level of violence of ISIS, specifically those in Algeria and other former French colonies whose idea of violence is shaped by French colonialism. It also shows how ISIS's state building tactics resemble those of revolutionary France more than they do any Islamic government of the past, in that ISIS is an attempt to build a nation state like those after the treaty of westphalia where as the Caliphates of old were more akin to classical empires. I think that comparison is very relevant and very important to create the correct image of ISIS in people's heads.] (]) 21:51, 20 July 2020 (UTC) |
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== Requested move 14 December 2024 == |
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== extended == |
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vandal is many..... <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 03:26, 15 August 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:''The following is a closed discussion of a ]. <span style="color: var(--color-error, red);">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a ] '''after''' discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.'' |
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The result of the move request was: '''not moved.''' <small>(])</small> '']'' 🎄 ] — ] 🎄 23:53, 21 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== Recent edit == |
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] → {{no redirect|Islamic State (militant group)}} – "Islamic state" doesn't indicates towards a particular group but whole Muslim community! And it makes confusion. There are lot of countries or state in past who used this name but not fair to target whole community as majority or almost all Muslims don't accept it as an Islamic state or caliphate. It makes confusion like in ] page. I think it should be moved on the basis of it targets a particular community who aren't accepting it and Misplaced Pages should not work on the basis of who claims the title.There is no problem using Islamic state name as per WP:COMMONNAMES But make a distinction. |
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I an edit here. It removed some well source and obvious ISIL ideologies. {{u|Aocloyalist}} please explain why you feel that content doesn't belong.''']''' <sub>]</sub> 22:27, 18 August 2020 (UTC) |
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I have changed the proposed title because the Islamic state of Iraq and Syria doesn't exists. And the main reason for this request is to make distinction.] (]) 23:23, 14 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:Disagree. The "Islamic State of Iraq and Syria" is no more as declared by former Caliph Baghdadi, who declared a global Caliphate. That is why now correct to talk of "Islamic State" when referring to the group's central activities and in general; then one can talk of "IS in Syria, in Iraq, IS-WAP, IS-SP, IS-GS etc. etc. |
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== It's been over 6 years since ISIS turned into IS, and you still failed to either update this article or to make a new one == |
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:None believe "Islamic State" means "worldwide Muslim Community". ] (]) 14:14, 15 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:'''Comment:''' I was launched a RM in October to ''']''' but only one supported it, they argued that "Islamic State" is common name. So I think this RM won't succusful. |
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:But If we uses "ISIS" in most of area rather then article title, it will succusful. No one call the group as "ISIL" now. Reliable sources also use "ISIS". So ISIS is most popular term to refer the group. The " Islamic State" is second most popular term. ] (]) 14:19, 15 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:'''Oppose''' When sources spell the name out, they almost always use "Islamic State" – , , , the list goes on and on. Readers expect to see "Islamic State", not a long and clunky alternative name. Almost nobody even knows what the second part of ISIS stands for. ] ] ''<sup style="font-family:Times New Roman">]</sup>'' 15:28, 15 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::No. ], ] and this page makes confusion. And while saying the word "Islamic state" the thing comes on mind is the state of Islam and there should be no one particularly refered as Islamic state cuz lot of states claimed to be Islamic state and caliphate but it something that is/should be based on consensus of Muslims (Shura) like ] they can come to conclusion that is this an Islamic state, caliphate or not and no one accept them. They are salafi terrorist organization they have not right to claim that they are the Islamic state and how will someone make distinction between (] and isis ??? It's disrespectful and unfair that someone claimed the Islamic state or caliphate title and no one of that community accepts but based on people refers them giving the name doesn't make sense! If you think "Islamic state of Iraq and Syria" is not suitable then ]as suggest by @] or ] but the word "Islamic state" refers whole community not just a particular group it's a term. ] (]) 17:42, 15 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::Nothing written above concerns Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines, it simply appears to be your personal opinion based on your own sensitivity (] may be helpful). ] (]) 22:28, 15 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::Agree with Sira Aspera, ] may also be relevant here. ] ] ''<sup style="font-family:Times New Roman">]</sup>'' 01:08, 16 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::It sucks that terrorists have co-opted the name, but it isn't Misplaced Pages's job to WP:RGW and change article titles based on a Shura council. ] (]) 22:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Support'''. ] should redirect to ]. ] (]) 19:06, 15 December 2024 (UTC) |
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* '''Oppose''': No reason to lengthen the title. The terrorist organization is exactly what 99% of readers expect to find when they type the title, even more so after the current events in Syria. ] (]) 22:32, 15 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose'''. An RM with basically the same rationale was discussed a month ago and the closer found a "clear consensus not to move". So why are we discussing it again? I'm often not the biggest fan of ], but in this case it works perfectly. ] is the organisation, capitalised as such and commonly known thus, while ] refers to the generic concept. Suggest a speedy close since nothing has changed since November. Cheers — ] (]) 23:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' that is what the organization calls itself being the one used by the media and is clearly the ] and is the ].] (]) 01:18, 16 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*:Then what will you say on ] ? How readers will distinct those pages? Or ] what does this page means the first state of Islam or first state of isis ? There is no problem using Islamic state name as per ] But make a distinction. ] (]) 01:31, 16 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' per ]. This is not an Islamic state but a terrorist organisation whose proper name is "Islamic State". The capitalisation difference is sufficient. ] | ] 07:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*:No it's not sufficient for a normal reader ] (]) 14:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:'''Oppose'''. The Islamic State itself is not a militant group, but a global coalition of militant groups under Islamic State's central command. The Iraq and Syria province is the most well-known, but there is no group that's just the Islamic State and not a regional affiliate. I wouldn't be opposed to renaming the article ] as that makes a better distinction between the org and the concept of an Islamic state. |
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Despite the earlier ] having a separate article. |
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:Per WP:COMMONNAME as Amakuru points out, The Islamic State vs. Islamic state is the perfect example of a specific group commonly known as that versus the concept. ] (]) 22:54, 16 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::Think from the pov of a normal reader who wants to know concept but finds this group go on Google and search Islamic state it shows this article. And the isis don't operating now globally and Minor in Iraq and Syria. And it create confusion with ] too ] (]) 02:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose'''. Per commonname. ] (]) 23:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose'''. Very clear primary topic. -- ] (]) 16:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose'''. Islamic State is a common name for the group. It’s the first thing that comes to mind. ] (]) 20:33, 20 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*:True, The name 'Islamic State' should be kept on the page, Nobody knows what ISIL, ISIS are anymore. ] (]) 21:45, 20 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*::But all the article in press mentions it as militant group or organization so why not make a distinction ] (]) 16:28, 21 December 2024 (UTC) |
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<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: var(--color-error, red);">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from ] --> |
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== Use of term 'terror group' == |
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It was also never really "ISIL". <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 17:52, 2 November 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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Per ], terms like terrorist are "best avoided '''unless widely used by reliable sources to describe the subject'''." I understand there was some confusion that led to the removal of the term based on a quick reading of the 'best avoided' part alone. The label terrorist is near-unanimously used by ]s in essentially every language to describe groups like ISIS and hence it is usable per ]. Using such a term would be justified in the lede as long as reliably sourced.--] (]) 22:40, 7 January 2025 (UTC) |
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Agreed. It's anachronistic and was widely viewed as a political maneuver to absolve the Obama administration of any blame for not having interceded in Syria the year prior to their ascendancy. But you'll never see the article changed, no matter how erroneous or infrequent the term ISIL is used. ] (]) 07:22, 3 December 2020 (UTC) |
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:I think something like "Islamic State has been designated as a terrorist organistation by the United States and many other countries" would be appropriate, per the requirement at MOS:TERRORIST for intext attribution. Note that news organisations like the BBC also refer to IS as a "militant group" rather than referring it to it in their own voice as a "terrorist group". ] (]) 22:45, 7 January 2025 (UTC) |
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== Execution vs murder? == |
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::The in-text styling is in the fourth paragraph of the lede. BBC also regularly uses the term terror and alternates between the two (terror and militant) rather than using only 'militant'. ] (]) 22:50, 7 January 2025 (UTC) |
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The article mentions "execution" several times. Is this terminology proper? As far as I understand, an "execution" is a killing sanctioned by a government. If IS/ISIL was never a recognized state, then I would think it would be more proper to describe these killings as "murders" rather than "executions". ] (]) 08:52, 17 December 2020 (UTC) |
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I have removed, from the first sentence of the article, (uncited) text that calls ISIL an "unrecognised quasi-state." It is true that, as of 2024, affiliates of the terror group hold territorial control over shifting areas of Africa (which we mention in the lead section), but the preponderance of sources (or at least the sources currently cited) don't seem to commonly use the "quasi-state" verbiage to describe ISIL presently - certainly not at a frequency sufficient to justify its inclusion in the lead. Neither of the two sources cited on the present situation in Africa (, ) use the term. Given all that, the "quasi-state" language is more likely to confuse readers than enlighten them, especially as it seems to conflate the situation a decade ago (2012/2013 era) with the situation today. (Note, too, that there are many terror/insurgent groups that occupy territory but are not commonly described as "quasi-states." Neutrality 19:03, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
The article shows a significant plurality of foreign fighters in Islamic State originating from The Russian Federation yet there is no mention of either IS-CP or the link to Chechan extremists/terrorists nor the direct involvemnet of Al-Qaeada fighters in the Second Chechen War and activities of IS-CP in Russia since inception of Islamic State/Daesh and it's military defeat two years later.
I prepose inclusion of links to the main article for IS-CP in the article summary as well as a summary of IS-CP operations within the Caucuses. I'm interested in any discussion/contributions before amending the article. Debiant (talk) 15:12, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
I have changed the proposed title because the Islamic state of Iraq and Syria doesn't exists. And the main reason for this request is to make distinction.Therealbey (talk) 23:23, 14 December 2024 (UTC)