Talk:Uzbeks: Difference between revisions

Browse history interactively ← Previous editContent deleted Content addedVisual WikitextInline

Revision as of 17:01, 30 December 2020 editLegobot (talk \| contribs)Bots1,670,235 edits Adding RFC ID.← Previous edit		Latest revision as of 15:50, 21 October 2024 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk \| contribs)Bots, Template editors2,303,738 editsm Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Talk:Uzbeks/Archive 1) (bot
(41 intermediate revisions by 23 users not shown)
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{Skip to talk}}		{{Skip to talk}}
	{{Talk header}}		{{Talk header}}
			{{WikiProject banner shell\|class=Start\|1=
	{{WikiProjectBannerShell\|1=
	{{WikiProject Ethnic groups\|importance=High~~\|class=B~~}}		{{WikiProject Ethnic groups\|importance=High}}
	{{WikiProject Central Asia~~\|class=B~~ \|importance=high \|Uzbekistan=yes \|Uzbekistan-importance=top}}		{{WikiProject Central Asia\|importance=high \|Uzbekistan=yes \|Uzbekistan-importance=top}}
	{{WikiProject Afghanistan~~\|class=B~~\|importance=low}}}}		{{WikiProject Afghanistan\|importance=low}}
			{{WikiProject Anthropology\|oral-tradition=yes

			}}
			}}
	{{archives \| bot=MiszaBot \| age=120}}		{{archives \| bot=MiszaBot \| age=120}}
	{{User:MiszaBot/config		{{User:MiszaBot/config
Line 17:		Line 19:
	}}		}}

		⚫	== Semi-protected edit request on 05 May 2022 ==
	== Genetic origins ==
			{{edit semi-protected\|Uzbeks\|answered=yes}}
	This information has been , with the following edit summary: ''"Removed vandalistic revision."'' I think it is relevant and should be included.

			Please include this results into the section "genetics":

			:A genetic study by Seidualy et al. 2020 found that the Uzbeks derive about ~45% of their ancestry from East Asian-related populations, ~40% from West-Eurasian (European-related) populations, and ~15% from indigenous South Asian populations (samplified by ], which are often used as proxy for indigenous South Asian ancestry<ref>https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-04144-4</ref>). Overall, the Uzbeks are closest to other Central Asian populations, such as Kazakhs, Kalmyks, and Kyrgyz people.<ref>https://doi.org/10.1007/s00439-020-02132-8</ref>

			Thank you.-] (]) 10:11, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

			:] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a ] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp -->In particular, '''which''' genetics section? Are you attempting to create a new section? If so, then where? ] (]) 07:09, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

			{{talkref}}

			== Semi-protected edit request on 8 April 2023 ==

			{{Edit semi-protected\|Uzbeks\|answered=yes}}
			Add the Uzbek diaspora map image to the infobox.

			File:Map of the Uzbekhs Diaspora in the World.svg


			] ] (]) 22:11, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
		⚫	:{{done}}<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 23:02, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
			::There are some glaring mistakes on this map. Saudi Arabia isn't highlighted despite having a sizeable Uzbek minority, while Israel is highlighted despite no ethnic Uzbeks living there. ] (]) 18:32, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
			:Incorrect map.
			:Why is Israel highlighted? there are 0 Uzbeks living in Israel, and no Bukharian Jews aren't Uzbeks. ] (]) 01:28, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
			::Exactly. Bukharian Jews are one of the many ethnic minority communities that have inhabited Uzbekistan. Counting Bukharian Jews in Israel as Uzbek diaspora is like counting Russians born in Uzbekistan who now live in Russia as part of the Uzbek diaspora (they're also not).-] (]) 16:59, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

			== The diaspora map should either be removed or edited ==
	{{quote\| The modern Uzbek population represents varying degrees of diversity derived from the high traffic invasion routes through Central Asia. Once populated by ] tribes and other ], Central Asia experienced numerous invasions emanating out of ] that would drastically affect the region. According to recent ] testing, the genetic admixture of the Uzbeks clusters somewhere between the ] and the ].<ref name="journal"/>

			There are multiple inaccuracies in this so-called "Uzbek diaspora" map - some countries with actual Uzbek diaspora communities are completely omitted (for example Saudi Arabia and China) while some countries that have no known local Uzbek community are highlighted (for example Israel). As the map does not accurately reflect the worldwide Uzbek diaspora it should be removed until a proper edit is made. ] (]) 09:58, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
	<blockquote>From the 3rd century B.C., Central Asia experienced nomadic expansions of Altaic-speaking oriental-looking people, and their incursions continued for hundreds of years, beginning with the Hsiung-Nu (who may be ancestors of the Huns), in ~300 B.C., and followed by the Turks, in the 1st millennium A.D., and the Mongol expansions of the 13th century. High levels of ] and its derivative, haplogroup 36 , are found in most of the Altaic-speaking populations and are a good indicator of the genetic impact of these nomadic groups. The expanding waves of Altaic-speaking nomads involved not only eastern Central Asia—where their genetic contribution is strong, —but also regions farther west, like Iran, Iraq, Anatolia, and the Caucasus, as well as Europe, which was reached by both the Huns and the Mongols. In these western regions, however, the genetic contribution is low or undetectable (...), even though the power of these invaders was sometimes strong enough to impose a language replacement, as in Turkey and Azerbaijan (...). The difference could be due to the population density of the different geographical areas. Eastern regions of Central Asia must have had a low population density at the time, so an external contribution could have had a great genetic impact. In contrast, the western regions were more densely inhabited, and it is likely that the existing populations were more numerous than the conquering nomads, therefore leading to only a small genetic impact. Thus, the admixture estimate from North-East Asia is high in the east, but is barely detectable west of Uzbekistan..<ref name="journal">{{cite journal \|doi=10.1086/342096 \|author=Tatjana Zerjal\|title=A Genetic Landscape Reshaped by Recent Events: Y-Chromosomal Insights into Central Asia \|journal=The American Journal of Human Genetics \|year=2002 \|volume=71 \|issue=3 \|pages=466–482 \|pmid=12145751 \|pmc=419996\|display-authors=etal}}</ref></blockquote>Another study shows that the Uzbeks are closely related to other Turkic peoples of Central Asia and rather distant from Iranian people. The study also analysed the maternal and paternal DNA haplogroups and shows that Turkic speaking groups are more homogenous than Iranian speaking groups.<ref>{{Cite journal\|last=Heyer\|first=Evelyne\|last2=Balaresque\|first2=Patricia\|last3=Jobling\|first3=Mark A.\|last4=Quintana-Murci\|first4=Lluis\|last5=Chaix\|first5=Raphaelle\|last6=Segurel\|first6=Laure\|last7=Aldashev\|first7=Almaz\|last8=Hegay\|first8=Tanya\|date=2009-09-01\|title=Genetic diversity and the emergence of ethnic groups in Central Asia\|url=https://doi.org/10.1186/1471-2156-10-49\|journal=BMC Genetics\|volume=10\|issue=1\|pages=49\|doi=10.1186/1471-2156-10-49\|issn=1471-2156\|pmc=2745423\|pmid=19723301}}</ref>

			{{Edit semi-protected\|Uzbeks\|answered=yes}}
	According to a recent study, the Kyrgyz, Kazakhs, Uzbeks, and Turkmens share more of their gene pool with various East Asian and Siberian populations than with West Asian or European populations. The study further suggests that both migration and linguistic assimilation helped to spread the Turkic languages in Eurasia.<ref>{{Cite journal\|last=Villems\|first=Richard\|last2=Khusnutdinova\|first2=Elza\|last3=Kivisild\|first3=Toomas\|last4=Yepiskoposyan\|first4=Levon\|last5=Voevoda\|first5=Mikhail\|last6=Osipova\|first6=Ludmila\|last7=Malyarchuk\|first7=Boris\|last8=Derenko\|first8=Miroslava\|last9=Damba\|first9=Larisa\|date=2015-04-21\|title=The Genetic Legacy of the Expansion of Turkic-Speaking Nomads across Eurasia\|url=https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1005068\|journal=PLOS Genetics\|language=en\|volume=11\|issue=4\|pages=e1005068\|doi=10.1371/journal.pgen.1005068\|issn=1553-7404\|pmc=4405460\|pmid=25898006}}</ref>}}

			<!--Don't remove anything above this line.-->
⚫	{{~~reflist talk~~}} ~~Thoughts?~~ -- ] (]) 16:38, 12 April ~~2020~~ (UTC)

	The references cited here are primary research concerning genetic origins of human populations. The consensus (at ] is that such material should be sourced per ], meaning, among other criteria, that it should be a secondary source. The lengthy quotation from the author is also ]. That's why this section was removed in the first place. - ] (]) 02:25, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

			The main article photo should be changed. There are multiple inaccuracies in this so-called "Uzbek diaspora" map - some countries with actual Uzbek diaspora communities are completely omitted (for example Saudi Arabia, China, Afhganistan and Pakistan) while some countries that have no known local Uzbek community are highlighted (for example Israel). As the map does not accurately reflect the worldwide Uzbek diaspora it should be removed until a proper edit is made.
⚫	== Semi-protected edit request on 19 May ~~2020~~ ==
	{{small\|{{gray\|(Removed copy of entire article – ''']''' ] 13:20, 19 May 2020 (UTC))}}}}

	] (]) 10:47, 19 ~~May~~ ~~2020~~ (UTC)		] (]) 10:04, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
			<!--Don't remove anything below this line-->
			{{reftalk}}
			: You're right, the map does need changed (I don't know how to do it though). I think that the reason Israel is labeled as having a diaspora is because of the Bukharian Jews, who previously lived in Uzbekistan (many born in Bukhara) but are not ethnically Uzbek (their language is also closer to Tajik than Uzbek).-] (]) 14:21, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
			:] '''Not done:''' please provide ] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> Specifically, please provide sources supporting the assertions about S.A., China, Afghanistan, and Pakistan to indicate that these nations do in fact have significant Uzbek diaspora communities (I'm assuming sources showing the absence of such a community in Israel may be hard to provide, given that this is an assertion of a negative). -- ] (]) 02:44, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
			::Please provide a single source saying there is a substantial population of ethnic Uzbeks (not Bukharain Jews) in Israel or edit the map to reflect the lack of them.--] (]) 12:38, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

			== Someone has reduced the number of etnic uzbeks in many countries while the sources shows the opposite of these numbers ==
	*'''Not done''', Facebook is not a reliable source, please cite a published ]. – ''']''' ] 13:20, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

			{{edit semi-protected\|answered=yes}}
	== A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion ==
			<!--Don't remove anything above this line.-->
	The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
	* ]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion \| 2020-07-24T20:38:32.266137 \| Uzbek Man of Tashkent.png -->
	Participate in the deletion discussion at the ]. —] (]) 20:38, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

	== Sogdiana and Sasanid empire ==

			* '''What I think should be changed (format using {{tl\|textdiff}})''':
	* There is no evidence that the Sogdiana was a part of Sasanid Empire.] (]) 16:51, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
			* '''Why it should be changed''':
			* '''References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button)''':

		⚫	] (]) 22:15, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
	== RfC on what the ] of this article should be ==
			<!--Don't remove anything below this line-->
	{{rfc\|hist\|lang\|pol\|soc\|rfcid=610492B}}
			{{reftalk}}
	People of Uzbek ] and people of Ubzek ] are both referred to by the term "Uzbeks". This conflation of ethnicity and nationality is also characteristic of other ethnicities and nationalities. The implications of these conflations for the ] of Misplaced Pages articles has been discussed at ]. This issue is also of relevance to our article on Uzbeks. That leads to the question: What should be the primary topic of this article?
			:] '''Not done''': it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a ] and provide a ] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 14:17, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
	* People of Uzbek ethnicity
	* People of Uzbek nationality (i.e. people with Uzbek citizenship)
	* The term "Uzbeks" itself (per ])
	* There is ] for the term "Uzbeks"
	* Something else (feel free to elaborate)
⚫	] (]) 15:43, 30 ~~December~~ ~~2020~~ (UTC)

Latest revision as of 15:50, 21 October 2024

Skip to table of contents

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Uzbeks article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 4 months

This article is rated Start-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Ethnic groups High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ethnic groupsWikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groupsTemplate:WikiProject Ethnic groupsEthnic groups

High

This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Ethnic groups open tasks:

Here are some open WikiProject Ethnic groups tasks:

Meta-tasks:
- Place the {{Ethnic groups}} template on the talk page of articles within the scope of this project.
- Resolve the disparity in importance rankings among different ethnic groups
Articles about ethnic groups that currently have issues needing resolution:
Start an article:
- Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Article requests

Feel free to edit this list or discuss these tasks.

Central Asia: Uzbekistan High‑importance

	Asia portal Uzbeks is part of WikiProject Central Asia, a project to improve all Central Asia-related articles. This includes but is not limited to Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Tajikistan, Tibet, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Xinjiang and Central Asian portions of Iran, Pakistan and Russia, region-specific topics, and anything else related to Central Asia. If you would like to help improve this and other Central Asia-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome.Central AsiaWikipedia:WikiProject Central AsiaTemplate:WikiProject Central AsiaCentral Asia
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Uzbekistan portal This article is supported by WikiProject Uzbekistan (assessed as Top-importance).

Afghanistan Low‑importance

	Afghanistan portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Afghanistan, a project to maintain and expand Afghanistan-related subjects on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.AfghanistanWikipedia:WikiProject AfghanistanTemplate:WikiProject AfghanistanAfghanistan
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Anthropology: Oral tradition

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Anthropology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Anthropology on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AnthropologyWikipedia:WikiProject AnthropologyTemplate:WikiProject AnthropologyAnthropology
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.
	This article is supported by Oral tradition taskforce.

Archives

Archive 1

This page has archives. Sections older than 120 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 4 sections are present.

Semi-protected edit request on 05 May 2022

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please include this results into the section "genetics":

A genetic study by Seidualy et al. 2020 found that the Uzbeks derive about ~45% of their ancestry from East Asian-related populations, ~40% from West-Eurasian (European-related) populations, and ~15% from indigenous South Asian populations (samplified by Andamanese, which are often used as proxy for indigenous South Asian ancestry). Overall, the Uzbeks are closest to other Central Asian populations, such as Kazakhs, Kalmyks, and Kyrgyz people.

Thank you.-103.148.157.148 (talk) 10:11, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.In particular, which genetics section? Are you attempting to create a new section? If so, then where? Aaron Liu (talk) 07:09, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 8 April 2023

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Add the Uzbek diaspora map image to the infobox.

File:Map of the Uzbekhs Diaspora in the World.svg

201.71.0.220 (talk) 22:11, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Done EpicPupper (talk) 23:02, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

There are some glaring mistakes on this map. Saudi Arabia isn't highlighted despite having a sizeable Uzbek minority, while Israel is highlighted despite no ethnic Uzbeks living there. Blimpsk (talk) 18:32, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Incorrect map.

Why is Israel highlighted? there are 0 Uzbeks living in Israel, and no Bukharian Jews aren't Uzbeks. Blimpsk (talk) 01:28, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Exactly. Bukharian Jews are one of the many ethnic minority communities that have inhabited Uzbekistan. Counting Bukharian Jews in Israel as Uzbek diaspora is like counting Russians born in Uzbekistan who now live in Russia as part of the Uzbek diaspora (they're also not).-QazyQazyQazaqstan (talk) 16:59, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

The diaspora map should either be removed or edited

There are multiple inaccuracies in this so-called "Uzbek diaspora" map - some countries with actual Uzbek diaspora communities are completely omitted (for example Saudi Arabia and China) while some countries that have no known local Uzbek community are highlighted (for example Israel). As the map does not accurately reflect the worldwide Uzbek diaspora it should be removed until a proper edit is made. Blimpsk (talk) 09:58, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

The main article photo should be changed. There are multiple inaccuracies in this so-called "Uzbek diaspora" map - some countries with actual Uzbek diaspora communities are completely omitted (for example Saudi Arabia, China, Afhganistan and Pakistan) while some countries that have no known local Uzbek community are highlighted (for example Israel). As the map does not accurately reflect the worldwide Uzbek diaspora it should be removed until a proper edit is made.

Blimpsk (talk) 10:04, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

References

You're right, the map does need changed (I don't know how to do it though). I think that the reason Israel is labeled as having a diaspora is because of the Bukharian Jews, who previously lived in Uzbekistan (many born in Bukhara) but are not ethnically Uzbek (their language is also closer to Tajik than Uzbek).-QazyQazyQazaqstan (talk) 14:21, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Specifically, please provide sources supporting the assertions about S.A., China, Afghanistan, and Pakistan to indicate that these nations do in fact have significant Uzbek diaspora communities (I'm assuming sources showing the absence of such a community in Israel may be hard to provide, given that this is an assertion of a negative). -- Pinchme123 (talk) 02:44, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Please provide a single source saying there is a substantial population of ethnic Uzbeks (not Bukharain Jews) in Israel or edit the map to reflect the lack of them.--QazyQazyQazaqstan (talk) 12:38, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Someone has reduced the number of etnic uzbeks in many countries while the sources shows the opposite of these numbers

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

What I think should be changed (format using {{textdiff}}):
Why it should be changed:
References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

David.galikaev (talk) 22:15, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

References

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Charliehdb (talk) 14:17, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Categories: