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Pay-per-edit?

Just dropping a note. --physicq (c) 00:20, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Hiring an independent source to repair inaccuracies seems like a fine way to avoid conflict of interest, if that was really the deal. HighInBC 00:24, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Jimbo has stated, and I agree, that this is a very unethical practice. It should be discouraged. Very strongly. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 00:35, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, if Jimbo said it then that is another matter... HighInBC 00:37, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I quote:

Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 00:38, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Jimbo. The whole point of Misplaced Pages is that we are all volunteers, who are in this just for the love of it. We have no vested interests in this project, we have nothing to gain and nothing to lose (besides an off-wiki life ;). Paying someone to edit Misplaced Pages for you is absurd. Besides, wouldn't this make the blogger Microsoft's meatpuppet? And I don't think hiring meatpuppets will circumvent WP:COI. Aecis 00:48, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

The idea of hiring an independent source is common but inherently ridiculous. You're not independent of someone if you get paid by them. Again, if you have a problem with your Misplaced Pages article (or another article you have a conflict of interest in), post to talk, but don't try to edit it yourself. Superm401 - Talk 19:24, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

• Boy, I thought Guy was joking last week about not getting paid. You other sysops aren't getting the anonymous deposit of $5,000 (USD) from a numbered Cayman Island account each month? Teke 01:44, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

• I knew there was more to it when I didn't pass my RFA last week... so who got the extra cash? AH! HA! It was you wasn't it? (eyes turning left ... then right) Seriously though, what would be wrong, if considering I am a notable enough subject, WP:V, WP:NOR, etc... lets say Phil McNeely. And I wanted to pay a student to make sure my article was well balanced per wiki policy... or even to start an article on my bio. Perhaps, he may even defended the article on my bio from being edited or having information that may be libelious and negative to not only my political campaign but my life as well. If someone can obviously argue his way through the system, such as lawyers often does for their DUI clients, then I see no reason why we (an experienced wikipedian) can't be payed. Perhaps my hidden skills as an expert writer, lawyer, or something else will help propogate my POV. Perhaps a real paid lawyer could give me a fair representation during my debates. Perhaps a well experience wikipedian will know how to contour the rules in this persons favour. Remember every article is full of POVs (see the quote on my user page). I'm not saying we should keep the information, but if Microsoft wants to spend 10'000 $ during the launch of Windows Vista to make sure that certain POV are well sourced and properly reference as per wikipolicy, I'll make sure to argue it the best I can per my knowlege and experience in advocacy at AMA and as per my education. Jimbos opinion is exactly the same as mine. It's one man's opinion. --CyclePat 02:08, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

P.s.: It's funny you quote WP:COI. That "guideline" says "avoid editing articles related to your organization or its competitors;" however as an independant contractor writing for an organisation, technically, I would not be related to the company. I obviously wouldn't be arms lenght but technically, I wouldn't be editing an article related to my organization. --CyclePat 02:21, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Letter vs. spirit. —bbatsell ¿? 02:37, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

First, we don't let subjects of articles decide they're notable; that's vanity. Someone you pay to edit is not going to be inclined to make the article POV, even if they say otherwise. If they're trying to stop the article from being deleted, that's yet another conflict of interest. Just because you know how to game the system doesn't mean we have to let you. And no, you don't get to wikilawyer either. Finally, to state the obvious: The authority of the Misplaced Pages founder (a current Wikimedia Foundation board member) is not equal to that of a regular editor. Superm401 - Talk 23:46, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

• People who take advocacy as you do make me question my membership in the AMA. What part of unethical is hard to get your mind around? Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 02:24, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
  • LOL, Well... where do I start.... (self referene back to my above comment? nah). Well, in general, being a prosecutor (attacking), I think, doesn't require much imagination, but being a defence lawyers requires a lot more imagination. ie.: He might have been here, he migth have been there, we could done this instead, the wikirule might have meant this, etc... (oops! Advocates aren't lawyers that's true.) Anyways, being an advocate is about the same because you are somewhate making a choice to defend the other side, all while remaining still technically being honest and ethical. However, again, it always requires, a lot more imagination to defend someone. "There is always another way of seeing things or the possibility of another solution to what is being alleged." Surely, and I mean this as a compliment, your little train that could still has some imagination to remain an advocate and undestand that there is really nothing unethetical about arguing other possibilities!!! How else would we protect the right of the trully innocent wikipedians! ;) (smiles) (Don't worry, like the Bernado case, a good defense lawyer eventually releases even incriminating videos) p.s.: good one Bbatsell! --CyclePat 03:16, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

A few things here.

• COI is a guideline, and has next to no teeth. (All it says is try to avoid them)
• The whole point of Misplaced Pages isn't about the "love of it", but is about writing an encyclopedia.
• I thought the whole treatment of the MyWikiBiz scenario was an absolute farce, and involved drawing up some of the worst guidelines ever. (It involved the paid party writing articles off wiki for other unrelated users to copy over, which pretty much meant in was incredibly hard to trace compared to say drawing up articles in the userspace or AFC)
• I have no qualms over Misplaced Pages:Reward board.
• I believe that you can be paid to write something an still maintain a neutral encyclopedic stance, even if you are being paid by an involved party.
• I believe that if we maintain a high level of accountability of paid-edits they can be beneficial to Misplaced Pages. And a lot less damaging than the hordes of drive by vanity anon spam that we get.
• Having your firm/services connected to the use of a paid-editor is a hell of a lot less damaging for your publicity than having crap erroneous articles about your firm/services.

hahnchen 02:38, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

For a similar situation, see the Arch Coal DRV. - hahnchen 02:43, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't really see paying someone to write an article about your buisness to be any better or worse than doing it yourself. If you are notable enough and its not written like an advert noone will ever know and it will probablly stick. Otherwise you will have wasted your money and possiblly caused yourself other problems (like seeing the deletion debate for your article as the first result for a google search on your name). Plugwash 02:49, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I personally don't quite agree with Jimbo's stance on this. While I understand somewhat his opposition to the MyWikiBiz, and even agree with it partially, this is somewhat different IMHO. Microsoft appear to have down this in a fairly resonably way, approaching a blogger who I presume was considered fair and neutral, not someone who wrote about Microsoft the best company in the world all the time. Their conditions clearly didn't require any level of performance and as this blogger wasn't running a business, it seems far less likely they would care much whether they kept their hirer happy. Indeed, as a blogger with a reputation to keep, it would seem not that likely IMHO. Definitely it's far better then the goodness knows how many companies who have employees doing it on company time. Perhaps MS should have done this via the Misplaced Pages:Bounty board or Misplaced Pages:Reward board and gone for FA or something 203.109.240.93 17:36, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

For whatever it's worth, this story has reached the front page of cnn.com, so it seems to be getting a lot of attention... ATren 18:45, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, if someone wants to pay me $5,000 to put what they want in articles, as long as they can give me a reliable source, I will happily do so. HEck, it doesn't even have to be reliable. Or be a source. Just give me money, please. Proto::► 21:58, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

JuJube's annoyances

This user (Danny Lilithborne (now JuJube)) has to be stopped. A long time ago, we were having a long argument about heights and weights of Street Fighter-characters. There are many different versions of the heights and weights of these characters. Now JuJube has removed these Heights and Weights because this is too difficult to verify. Other users have asked him why the heights of these characters have been removed and JuJube blames me and says that these things have been removed because of my "constantly editwarrings". But to me, he said that the heights have been removed because this is too difficult to verify. Well, JuJube harasses me and I'm afraid that if other users would add the heights and weights to these Street Fighter Characters that JuJube would blame ma again and I'm also afraid that he would add a sockpuppet-shield to those users who would add the heights. And these problems are very frustrating for me. Please do something against JuJube and I'll be very happy. Thanks. Sergeant Gerzi 11:12, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

• About my old username. Well worked under the username and then I've created a new account because it was too difficult to understand the "changing username" link because I'm from a foreign country and my English is not very well. Well, I've created a new account because my old username is a name of an existing character and everytime when I type my old username into the google-web machine, my contributions also appear and also JuJube's sentences about my old username also appear. Please don't forget to tell JuJube that he should use my current username in any cases. Well, I've left you a comment because JuJube has to be stopped, as I mentioned. Sergeant Gerzi 11:12, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

• I'm also helpless and I can't defend myself against JuJube because I'm from a foreign country and my English is not well. So I ask you to help. Sergeant Gerzi 11:12, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

• JuJube has been here a long time and he has a point about the difficulty of verifying these figures. Guy (Help!) 12:41, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Height and weights doesn't seem to be verifiable. I agree with JuJube on this one issue. Savidan 04:26, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

They're often in game or in manuals. Similar to TV plot summaries, can't you just reference those?-137.222.10.67 20:48, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Proposing a ban on Lightbringer

Might as well make this de jure instead of de facto. Lightbringer (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been the subject of an arbitration case, where he was banned from Freemasonry articles for POV editing and personal attacks. To circumvent this ban, Lightbringer edited with numerous other sockpuppets, for which he was banned for one year. After this ban, similar bans have continued; 29 CheckUser requests have been brought against Lightbringer in all, with numerous sockpuppets and open proxies blocked, with the most recent case less than a week and a half ago.

For extensive sockpuppeting and violation of the Arbitration Committee ban, I propose an indefinite ban on Lightbringer. Ral315 (talk) 03:06, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

• As far as I'm concerned he's banned. Mackensen (talk) 12:40, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
• support Syrthiss 13:16, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
• I support with reluctance. Hate to see a user go out like this... but it wasn't our choice. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 17:24, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
• It took me ages to cleanup that RFCU page when I came across it... This nonsense has gone on too long, really. Support in full. Daniel.Bryant 20:26, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
• Support, yes. One of the 1% of problem users who take up 99% of people's time. Proto::► 21:49, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Lightbringer was banned by the Arbitration Committee in April, 2006; see Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Lightbringer#Lightbringer banned. Dmcdevit·t 22:00, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

• What part of "go away" was he having trouble understanding? Endorse, though unnecessary per ArbCom ruling. Guy (Help!) 22:20, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
• Support. Politely and without fuss, it's time to close the door for good. Durova 23:42, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
• It's become pretty clear that he's never going to stop doing this (he probably thinks it's fun), and I believe he exhausted the patience of many of us long ago. In addition, he stopped using his main account a long time ago, so I doubt anything short of a full community ban will allow us to shoot him on sight anytime. Scobell302 04:23, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey! You appropriate this from me! I suggested it about a week ago! (Note: While that's true, my main concern is just that this occurs). 68.39.174.238 22:45, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Anyone else see this as a possible misuse of the userspace?

User:A Study of Misplaced Pages appears to be soliciting interviews on his/her userpage and Helpdesk. I have not contacted the user yet; just wanted to see what the general thought on this was first. To me this is pretty clearly against WP:NOT#WEBSPACE.--Isotope23 18:18, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, everything this person is doing is about wikipedia so I'd be inclined to leave 'em alone. Besides, I wouldn't want to guess how it would impact the book if they got booted. :) ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 20:20, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I've seen surveys, and polls done on Userpages before rather successfully, and personally I don't see any issue with it, nor can I think of any better way(off the top of my head) to get interviews of Wikipedians. It may be in some measure against policy, but I'd leave it. Canadian-Bacon 20:26, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, the argument is that it doesn't further the goal of building an Encyclopedia. I disagree with that sentiment... I think both public relations and research both have a indirect but real effect in furthering our goal. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 20:31, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

In principle, I think it's a bit of crystal-ballism to say that this will further the goal of building an Encyclopedia; it might... or it might be an absolute smear job (or it might just be something that never goes anywhere). That said, I don't have any plans to start unilaterally hassling the editor over this.--Isotope23 20:38, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

That's very true... but if its going to be a smear-job then I'm not sure why they would even bother with a survey. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 20:47, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I suppose it could possibly be defamatory, but unfortunately I doubt we have a way to figure this out beforehand. I however, am still willing to AGF on this case. Canadian-Bacon 20:54, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

• I am strongly against using Misplaced Pages for commercial interests -137.222.10.67 20:54, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
• Agreed Crud3w4re 06:39, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Philosophy and Ludvikus

A request for a community ban on Ludvikus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) was posted on WP:AN on 24 January, due to a strong view from editors and sysops that "the community's patience is exhausted" (WP:BAN). It was suspended when I was asked to mediate the matter and "attempt a reconciliation" last week. I am concerned that even after just a week, I feel there may be strong evidence that the views of the complaining editors seem plausibly founded, and that this user may be pivotal to amicably resolving the matter.

I would like to present the information I've noted in this last week, for evaluation and comments now that I've been mediating a week on it. If feedback is not greatly adverse to Ludvikus I shall continue working as at present. But I need to clarify that aspect before spending further time, especially as one of the cites appears to show clear wilful intent, scant regard for the project's aims, and possible view to wikilawyer.

I have included DIFFs for matters I myself have seen. I have not included any diffs that others might make if it was taken further. For now, as a mediator, I would simply like independent WP:AN feedback on the posts that I have seen this last week. I would also like to check whether the evidence tends to support a view that "the community's patience is exhausted", as some have suggested, and whether editor concerns over Ludvikus should be addressed before progressing further. Many thanks for any insight and opinions.

Link to cites: User:FT2/Evidence pages/Philosophy. FT2 00:40, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

There can be no doubt that there is a consensus for a community ban amongst the editors of the Philosophy article. The only question here is, is that sufficient to ban someone from the Wiki? That is, as I asked before: For the purposes of a community ban, what counts as "a handful of admins or users"? I am of the opinion that in this case there is sufficient evidence of mischief for a ban to be enacted. Banno 01:45, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I beg to differ here, there may be some consensus but it is not a strong one and comes only from one "edit war" to which many of the "ban" editors were drawn in by their friends. So it is not widespread and is largely from a certain bunch of editors who contacted one another about the same edit-war. This handfull of editors were involved in this edit-war and disputes were fairly drawn out but not totally unreasonable, but this edit-war ended a number of days now. Nor had he disturbed much the actual articles. Now I witnessed the whole thing and if someone started being nasty or using bad language etc. it was not Ludvikus. Now different people react to such provocations in many ways, his reaction was perhaps strong but I cannot say he has not changed nor that he may be a young or inexperienced user. To not give fair warning on this matter I believe is not inline with wiki policy, and the "community ban," which I never heard of before, came out of nowhere and is largely post-factum. Also I notice the evidence gathering may be biased against him. It was these other editors who started using foul language and strong insults, Ludvikus just started reflecting them back many-fold. I also think the litigation thing is a red herring, there really were many editors drawn in and taking cheap shots at him. -- Lucas (Talk) 03:09, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

After looking over the evidence (and this edit particular), I feel a ban is in order. The user's conduct is appalling, and is of negative value to Misplaced Pages (sorry, I realise that's very utilitarian). That being said, I would urge you to consider removing the 'behavioural analysis' section, which is not helpful - diagnosis by proxy of the user's psychological state is wildly inappropriate. The editing speaks for itself. Proto::► 09:46, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

While I only have a minor background in philosophy (arg, looking back I didn't mean that as a pun), I get the feeling that I should link to this page in case I should ever want to write a textbook on disruptive editing. Vague legal threats, mentions of 'fisticuffs', persistent and admitted incivility (even if the admission was for a retaliatory portion), as well as the content edits themselves... When it actually becomes more brief to mention the types of problematic editing user isn't engaging in, and the behavior doesn't change and has a noticeable and pressing harmful impact, what really remains as a question? Bitnine 17:24, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

The above user has come on board of Misplaced Pages on January 21, 2007:

    Yup, I'm a fairly new user.  That being said, while it may bar me from a level of familiarity
    with certain practices and workings, it certainly doesn't mean
    I have to act like a new user.
    Also, I don't usually fill out user pages due to laziness.
    Let's see if this here's an exception...
    * I have the ability to keep my cool when discussing things on the internets.
    Apparently that's something akin to a superpower, from what I've observed.
    ...apparently not so much. 

Yours truly, --Ludvikus 20:09, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

The issue is quite simple really. Two administrators, who control the Philosophy page, and other pages, for content, maintain that it is Misplaced Pages Policy to rate an Editor on the Bristol Stool Chart. Administrator User:Mel Etitis has rated me to be between a 6 and a 7. Apparently, the Community to which he belongs suports this Rating System. Administrator User:Banno also suppots this rating system, and has failed, repeatedly to take appropriate action. I have asked Mel for an apology, but he has not yet done so. It seems clear to me that he has such a great reputation at Misplaced Pages, that he can tream me as shit'. If this community fails to take the appropriate action against those who condone such disgusting behavior I do not, and will nor, have anything to do with Misplaced Pages in this vulgar and primitive stage. It is funny how my remarks are being misconstrude. I've effectively said that in the streets of New York, who someone calls you SHIT, you punch him out. But this is Cyberspace. So gentlemen, all I ask is that Mel and Banno apologize to me for the repeated use of said chart. But before you banned, I ask all of you judges, who are now asked to judge me, image yourselves in my predicament. Just click on Mel and Banno's Bristol Stool Chart, and ask yourselve how you would feel if you were so rated? If you allow powerful Administrators, like Mel and Banno, to be that abusive to editors, then I do not want to have anything to do with any of you myself. So why waste anyone's time, just answer my simple question: are these two powerful administrators, Mel and Banno, going to be permitted to indulge in such disruptive behavior? If yes, than out the door I go.

At the same time, if you take the trouble to look, I have listened carefully to FT2 and used all my Wisdom to end the Philosophy Wars. I've even award Barnsters to those of my adversaries with whom I've had honest difference of opinion, but who have not been abusive. I am very curious if it is possible for Misplaced Pages to be just to me. Banno and Mel have been here a long time. But I'm a new person. So they are very arrogant. They have complete confidence that they shall prevail. And of course, they have many friends at Misplaced Pages, who will, and are, siding with them.

I have contributed several hundred articles already. And I have never been subjected to such abuse.

My recommendation is that you also consider a Conflict of Issue problem. Mel is Misplaced Pages's In-house Philosopher. And that's why he wants me banned. It is simple, I know more philosophy than he does - and that's a threat to him. He complains how horrible the Philosophy page is -- all the time -- but he's its ghost writer. --Ludvikus 19:44, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Having just been involved with User:Ludvikus in the last few hours, I have to agree with the proposal for a community ban. He is continuing to make wild and baseless accusations, attacking anyone he disagrees with in an unacceptable manner. He is currently under a 24 hour block for a fairly serious and utterly baseless personal attack. He is driving good editors away from the Philosophy article and is IMHO a serious impediment to progress on Misplaced Pages. Gwernol 19:09, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Template:Deletedpage

Nihonjoe and I have added a parameter to this template to categorize salted pages by month. Usage is: {{deletedpage|January 2006}}, or whatever. At some point soon (possibly Monday), Betacommand is planning to go through and retag the existing pages en masse. Nihonjoe cleverly designed the template not to break if you don't include a parameter (those just won't be categorized ), but this seems like a good way we can keep track of these. Chick Bowen 06:33, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Incidentally, for protected deleted categories, the parameter will still work, but it will categorize the template both in the protected deleted page by month category and (not by date) in Category:Protected deleted categories. Also, I see I wrote 2006 above--I am aware that it's 2007, although it's only very slowly sinking in. Chick Bowen 06:44, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

There'd been some talk of replacing this template with protected redirects to a page in the project namespace containing similar text (thereby removing salted article pages from the random article pool and total article count). This seems like a good idea, and I believe that it should be strongly considered before any such bot run occurs. (Of course, the redirect pages still could be categorized by date.) —David Levy 07:02, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I think that's a good idea, though actually I think we should do the bot run anyway, because that way we can go through the old ones before replacing them with redirects. Chick Bowen 07:07, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

To me, it just seems a bit pointless if we're only going to perform another bot run soon. We could just as easily delete the older pages after they become categorized redirects. But it's no big deal. —David Levy 16:38, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I quite like the protected redirect option. It has all the benefits of salting a page (that is, it keeps vandalism, hoaxes, and attack pages from being recreated), and eliminates the major drawback of salted pages (Special:Randompage running into salted pages, mostly). The only other problem with salted pages – which would still exist with the protected redirects – is that they prevent a real article from being created at the article name. I suspect that this is a desirable outcome at a vanishingly small percentage of salted articles; in any case, the project space target of the redirect can certainly contain detailed instructions for editors who wish to see a page unsalted. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:51, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I would say most salted articles shouldn't have any article created there. Did you mean to say a small percentage should have good articles? Superm401 - Talk 19:42, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I do not believe {{deletedpage}} should change too much. And a protected redirect would be an absolute no-no. As is categorising them by month (another bad idea). This is a bad idea. --SunStar Net 11:25, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Why? Proto::► 11:45, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I ask this, too. Should pages be kept deleted/protected indefinitely? Sorting by month will certainly allow for better tracking of these issues. --badlydrawnjeff talk 14:53, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

They are already date-sorted in User:DumbBOT/TimeSortedPD, and there's also a date-sorted list on the toolserver. —Centrx→talk • 17:47, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Generally not. But we need common sense here. Most vandal page creators move on quickly and so 2-3 weeks will suffice. But others are slow burning, and get recreated every month. MOstly if the deleted page is deleted and the things gets recreated, the harm is low. But if we've got someone posting a libellous article every few months to some obscure name, then we'd probably want to protect for a long time. And then there is Male bikini-wearing. I recently had someone repeatedly creating a redirect from a name to asshole. Basically, deleting protected pages is fine, as long as the admin looks at the reason for protection, the deletion history, and engages his brain. Automatically deleting something after x days is unacceptable. Cases will vary.--Doc 16:42, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

You're quite right, but a chronological categorization system wouldn't force sysops to delete older pages without investigation. It would merely point them toward the most likely candidates (some of which may have gone overlooked). —David Levy 16:50, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with what Doc says; the purpose here is to allow us to go through them and make judgments, not assign a deadline. I think we're all on the same page about that. Chick Bowen 17:26, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I even recall seeing some complaints of a recently salted article perhaps being unsalted too quickly by another admin who was cleaning things up. Since this would be a purely informational tool, it could be used however best fits, which in some cases would probably be to leave things salted if they are very recent. Bitnine 17:36, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, SunStar Net, please explain why these are bad ideas. Others have cited advantages, so what are the drawbacks? —David Levy 16:38, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

There already is a chronological list, which does not look like a backlog along the lines of AFD, PROD, orphan, etc. There are pages that should remain protected longer, so you end up with old, old, categories with one or two pages each. —Centrx→talk • 01:42, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Since when is permanently protecting a redirect a no-no? In cases of high-traffic articles it is a good solution to prevent duplicate article creation or copy and paste moves on articles where this is habitual, as well as thwarting sneaky vandalism. Absolutely no where in the Misplaced Pages:Protection policy does it say to not protect a redirect. Teke 21:53, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

How is this better than the current system, where a bot lists deletedpages, in a single list, by date? —Centrx→talk • 01:43, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

The current listing is actually more useful, as it includes links to the talk page and to the deletion log. When evaluating deleted pages, there is no reason to go the main namespace page—they are all exactly identical; the deletion log has the information appropriate for making a decision about what do with the page. —Centrx→talk • 02:18, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the list is quite useful--I confess I'd forgotten about it. I've added a link to it from the template. Chick Bowen 02:54, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Alternative proposal

Agree with blocking for racist and personal attack comments?

Even though I'm an administrator, I wanted to see if other admins agreed with how I'm proposing to deal with User:Williamdevino. This supposed 14-year-old kid from England is going around posting racist and hateful comments on different talk pages, expressing support for the KKK while also sphewing hate at people of color. For samples of this, see his userpage and talk page, as well as and . That last link shows User:Williamdevino demonstrating his talent at truly wonderous language. That last post also seems like it falls under the blocking policy for making "Personal attacks that place users in danger," as well as a violation of the NPA guideline. However, before I blocked him I wanted to see if other admins agreed with doing this. Also, should he be given a warning before blocking or has he already crossed the line on acceptable behavior?--Alabamaboy 20:51, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd go with one warning, and a block for any hate-speech after that. -GTBacchus 20:53, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Seems like a neo-Nazi troll more than anything else, considering his edits. One warning, and if refuted, indef-block. --physicq (c) 20:56, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I just posted the warning. We'll see what happens now. Thanks,--Alabamaboy 20:57, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I would have indef-blocked already based on edits such as this, but since he's extremely likely to violate the warning it may not matter much. Newyorkbrad 20:59, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I blocked briefly after seeing that second diff. That's really, really not a "get off with a warning"-level breach of our behaviour guidelines. Jkelly 21:01, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I was tempted to block him immediately but he'd posted comments on some article talk pages I edit and I didn't want people to think I had a conflict of interest.--Alabamaboy 21:02, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

BTW, I love this comment on his user page: "I am a supporter of the KKK, AWB and NAZI party and have been since I had an apifamy of sorts and acquired white, Christian, European pride." Apifamy? Sounds like some painful type of bowel blockage :-).--Alabamaboy 21:11, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Seriously? After comments like this one I would have expected an indefinite block, no questions asked. As a matter of fact... Can't sleep, clown will eat me 23:08, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

If there was any doubt before, that removes it; I hadn't gone back quite that far in the contribution history. Support indefinite. Newyorkbrad 23:11, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Support indef. That's a death threat, unambiguously. CanadianCaesar Et tu, Brute? 23:12, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree, shouldn't Jimbo hear about edits like this? RyanPostlethwaite 23:23, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

No. Newyorkbrad 23:31, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I totally agree. I also missed that death threat back in the contributions list. Removes any doubt whatsoever.--Alabamaboy 00:34, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Indef, without regret. HighInBC 05:03, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

• It's not a death threat, it's garden-variety inarticulate bigotry. I still support banning this fuckwit on the grounds that he has made it abundantly clear that he has no intention of abiding by policy, but we really must stop over-reacting to use of the word kill when there is no credible threat of harm. Personal soapbox, sorry. Guy (Help!) 10:36, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Ummm JzG, this is a death threat. "WE'LL KILL HIS WHOLE FAMILY.", how much more plain should it be? I agree that just the word kill does not make a death threat, however, when you use that word as a verb toward a person or group of people, with a statement of intent such as "We will", then yes it is a death threat. HighInBC 15:42, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I think what Guy meant is that there's no credible threat of harm. If I start receving letters written with newspaper clippings from the KKK, that's a death threat. A dumb teenager with testosterone problems typing silly comments on a keyboard in his bedroom isn't, because there's no...well, threat. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be indefed, of course. yandman 15:59, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Right. It's like the drunk in the pub yelling "I'll kill you!" then falling flat on his arse because he's... well, drunk. It's the difference between a death threat (which the police would take seriously) and random inarticulate raving (which they would not). We block this one for irredeemable cluelessness and disruption, not for death threats. Guy (Help!) 18:39, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

That is not the point of view I would take. HighInBC 02:24, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

This discussion reminds me of the time an anonymous vandal posted some very silly death threats on my User Page. I chose to enshrine them for all to see and was roundly scolded by several admins for doing so. I tried to argue that these were not "real" death threats, just a bit of juvenile idiocy. Others disagreed.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 19:39, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

This user may be back as Rqquju (talk · contribs). Jkelly 03:55, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Even if that's not the aforementioned user, this one definitely needs a blocking. He's someone's sock, considering his first edits were to create a new neonazi userbox, and post an RfC. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 04:05, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Right, I just pushed his block up to indefinite. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 04:10, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

That should be standard procedure for people who only wish to push hatred here. HighInBC 04:13, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

There is--they get blocked.--Alabamaboy 19:21, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

More Dwain

User:Dwain is at it again. While the offending Freemasonry page is no longer linked directly to his talk page, it is locatable in talk history and still exists on his Geocities site at the address. So, I'd like those revisions purged. Also note the issue he fomented on IMDB after a year here, when he started the problem in the first place. He clearly has a much larger and more long-standing anti-WP stance than he lets on, brought about mainly (it seems) because he cannot get his way and do what he likes where and how he likes. MSJapan 23:54, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

A close look at his diffs also shows he is stashing old articles he created that are now being prodded or AfDed in his userpage history: Charity Bishop (prodded for nn) is here, and Michael Kaplan (AfD for vanity) is here. These are both articles he created as Pitchka, and Dwain is currently engaging in personal attacks on the Michael Kaplan AfD. MSJapan 00:22, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

The heading, in fact, should be More MSJapan! This user has a "problem" with me because I pointed out problems with articles edited by self proclaimed freemasons, which effects Misplaced Pages adversely by putting out mason propaganda. He has been trolling my pages and been heading a campaign against me ever since. As these exact same type of tactics have been used by freemasons for centuries it's really no surprise. This user, who has reported falsely in his statements against me in previous attacks has never denied that his statements were false after I pointed out that they were. MSJapan has made a mistake, he has identified himself as the person who as gone off Misplaced Pages and called me a "**bleep** idiot." I knew that if a gave a good response I had a chance of finding out who would act this. His bringing up my response is pretty good proof that drtroll and MSJapan are on in the same person. I do not ave an anti-Misplaced Pages stance though I do have an anti-harrassment stance. Dwain 23:47, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it's called Google. It's not my fault you use the same account handle on IMDB and elsewhere as you used to post your polemical page on your user space here. There was no reason then (nor is there now) for me to respond any further than I already have done. The situation has been noted by admins, which was my purpose in posting it here in the first place. MSJapan 23:58, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

• Warned Dwain for attacks. Guy (Help!) 10:17, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

User_talk:24.68.229.125 bears looking at, and the reasoning should be obvious upon insapection, though I will state it. The IP address is a known vandal, and the link contained in the post is the same page Dwain was expressly prohibited from linking to on Misplaced Pages. MSJapan 04:35, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Attention: Undiscussed page moves on a massive scale

I just want to call the attention to the fact that User:Highshines has started a massive page move campaign of articles relating to Chinese royalty. Thsi is completely uncalled for given the fact that Highshines has refrained from taking part in the discussion about how to normalize the names of Qing dynasty royalty on Talk:Xiao Xian Chun. An administrator needs to talk to Highshines soon, before he/she makes a complete mess of these pages. For evidence, please refer to Special:Contributions/Highshines.--Niohe 01:45, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Jiang left a not about the moves, and I supplemented with at link to WP:RM. I also removed text from the userpage that was a copyvio from Sparknotes. Teke 02:31, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! I warned that this would happen last week on Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Archive72#User:_Niohe. I also want to alert other adminstrators to the fact that Highshines has been blocked for sock puppetry and disruptive page moves before, please refer to Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Highshines. In order to cover this up, Highshines has removed the sock puppeteer tag from his/her talk page and deleted warning messages from his/her talk page.

I don't have any administrative powers to undo this kind of massive disruptive edits. This will happen again, and I think it is time to block Highshines from editing these pages.--Niohe 03:30, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I am undoing the moves as they did not have any sort of consensus for the amount of renaming the user did. Teke 03:55, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

All moved back to where they were. That will prevent it from happening again, since my moves created redirects the user cannot move them back. RM would be for doing that. Teke 04:04, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, you can "overwrite" an article if the only edit is creating a redirect, or at least I think I have seen that happening... -- ReyBrujo 04:09, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

True enough, I'm watching the pages. I was speaking in the context of moves :) Teke 04:20, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Go make some false edits (add some of thsoe "R from" templates) to prevent users from movewarring...I did that when a user kept moving Kitty Pryde to Shadowcat. Hbdragon88 09:07, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

If anyone had any doubt what kind of editor Highshines is, please have a look at the following foul language posted to Jiang's user page (in Chinese) for four hours:

I think Highshines has earned himself/herself a block by now.--Niohe 14:35, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't know Chinese, would you mind providing a translation? Additionally, I'm not sure why the user made that post when I told him at the time that I was doing it to remove copyvios from Sparknotes. sigh Anyone other uninvolved third party care to dive in here? Teke 18:16, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry about it, Teke. I know you're doing the right thing. However, someone also deleted my userpage after you, and I think it was Niohe. By the way, all the page moves I have done was according to Niohe's suggestion on the talk page of Xiao Xian Chun. Highshines 19:27, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I would worry about it. What Highshines wrote is the kind of profanity you don't want to translate. It was a rant directed to the person who touched Highshines user page, making various comments about the smell of the private parts of the mother of that editor and the circumstances surrounding his conception. Is that enough or do I need to give you a verbatim translation?.

Niohe is both exaggerating and lying. All I have said was that the person who removed my user page (not Teke, but after him) must have had a bad upbringing. I can provide a verbatim translation: "To whomever deleted my userpage: The one who had performed stealthy actions on my userpage must have been forced to do bad and brutal things by his mother. Also, he must have been beaten badly by his father. Therefore, he was formed that way." At that time, I was really angry with Niohe because he had frequently vandalized my userpage and talkpages before. Highshines 20:43, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

You know that is not an accurate translation. Don't even try.--Niohe 21:32, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

It is an accurate translation. I can show it to every one word by word with a Chinese-English dictionary. My remark is clean, but your paraphase has added further sexual contents to it. What are you planning at, Niohe? Highshines 21:54, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, how would you translate "谁妈的逼" into plain English? Or "谁爸操了以后"? --Niohe 22:08, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

The whole phrase "谁妈的逼" means "who has been forced by his mother to ". The character "谁" means "whose", and the character "逼" is a verb which means to force someone to do something he/she is unwilling to do. In this case, I meant that someone so vandalic must have been "force by his mother to do immoral things". I know it is a bit strong, but I already suffered enough from the vandalizations of my pages. Highshines 22:19, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

的 is a possesive prefix marking the noun following 的 to belong to the noun preceding it. You used 谁妈 which means "that person's mother" and 逼 therefore is a noun, and the only meaning of 逼 as a noun is an obscene reference to female genitalia. -- 我♥中國 22:19, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

You are absolutely wrong about "the only meaning of 逼 as a noun is an obscene reference to female genitalia.". I have never heard of that. Instead, 逼 also means "forcing someone" when used as a noun. Highshines 22:32, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Really? A 造句 quiz then: make a sentence where "逼" is used as a noun meaning "forcing someone". (There are no gerunds in Chinese!) -- 我♥中國 22:45, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

If you say your user page was vandalized, can you provide diff histories showing the vandalism? -- 我♥中國 22:23, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Highshines has also started to use threatening language, as evidenced by his comment to my my talk page. If the above profanity won't earn Highshines a block for abusive behavior I don't know what will.--Niohe 20:19, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Niohe, if you were the one who removed my userpage, you better explain why. If you didn't, then why do you have to feel being "threatened"? Highshines 20:37, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Teke did it, as he said: . 146.186.221.141 21:13, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

If I wronged you this time, Niohe, please accept my apology. However, if you have been kind to my pages before, I wouldn't have been so mad at you. Highshines 21:22, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Apology for what? For including me in your rant or for calling me a liar when I paraphrased your profane remarks? --Niohe 21:32, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, if you don't want to accept it, that's fine to me. I was trying a apologize for a possible mistaking you as the remover of my page. However, I don't think my remarks have any profane element. Instead, your paraphrase only produced exaggerations and lies. Highshines 21:51, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

This is ridiculous. First, you apologize and then you call me a liar.--Niohe 22:11, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Highshines, I will provide a word-for-word translation then.

谁对我个人网页动了手脚, - whoever messed around with/did sneaky things to my personal website

谁妈的逼又烂又搔又臭, - mother's vagina is rotten and slutty and stinky

所以叫谁爸操了以后才把谁给生出来了. -so that person's dad fucked her then gave birth to that person

So don't even think about lying. There are plenty of people who know Chinese here

-- 我♥中國 22:15, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

That translation is correct.. mm. I might say that 手脚/hand-foot might mean "stealthy" or "hidden". Other than that, yes. Highshine's "translation" was a complete lie.--Elaragirl 06:04, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Removal of comments

Highshines has now removed another editor's comment twice (1, 2), apparently because it provides a translation of his incivil comments in another language. I suggest that this, along with his previous history of disruptive action detailed above and his use of sockpuppets merits a block; I request input before I implement this. —bbatsell ¿? 22:40, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I have blocked her for 2 weeks. -- 我♥中國 22:41, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I think the block is appropriate, the fact that Highshines has already removed your comments from her user page does not reflect well on her either. Given past experience, we may expect a wave of sock puppetry from Highshines in the next couple of days.--Niohe 22:47, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I just restored your comments on Highshines talk page, I felt that was appropriate given what has happened.--Niohe 23:16, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Highshines blanked the block message 3 times so I have protected her page as well. I don't know of any precedent with this so in this case I did what I think is the most convenient thing to do. I realise that non-admins would not be able to edit this page but I don't know if semiprotection prevents blocked users from editing their own talk pages. -- 我♥中國 04:54, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Seems appropriate if the block message is getting blanked, with semi they can still edit the page. Lift the protection when the block expires, and it's all good. Teke 01:56, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Improper AfD - not sure if this can be speedied

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Giovanni Battista Maganza - messed up AfD listing. Not sure if I can speedy a malformed AfD, so asking if an admin can delete this. --Wooty Woot? contribs 05:52, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

You could just tag it with {{db|mistakenly created}};no need to worry about the rules. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 18:04, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

No need to ignore any rule. {{db-author}} handles it quite nicely. 146.186.221.141 21:11, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Moe me being too lazy to look up the specific db- template. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 21:18, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Again, more personal attacks...

Please see the comment made by Roazir here: Please see here where I posted my first complaint of a personal attack against me: These users may be the same person. I would really appreciate it if someone took care of this. I'm sick of these personal attacks.Azerbaijani 06:39, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

If you believe he used another account/IP to evade 3RR, you an file a Checkuser request: WP:RFCU. Otherwise, better to just ignore that kind of comment; it was hardly bannable material. 146.186.221.141 21:10, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Personal attack

User:82.3.192.91 has referred to me as a Banya which is a derogatory Indian term and has also made unsubstantive deletions of the Janjua article which I have reverted. Can the racist personal attack be dealt with? --Leonidus 15:37, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I can't find the term on google, it is a place name, and a surname, can you show me a source that describes it's offensive meaning? HighInBC 15:39, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Incivility

During a dispute regarding external links on Mika (singer), Mel Etitis (talk • contribs) left the comment "Fine — I think that you're wrong, but I don't have the energy to fight more teenybopper music fans." - aimed at myself. He repeatedly restored the comment, finally claiming he was seeking admin intervention regarding my removal of the personal attack, although he has made no contributions since. Suggest user be given a warning on civility by a third party. ed g2s • talk 16:22, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Both of you go edit something else for a while? Let's not be princesses constantly on the lookout for peas. Opabinia regalis 18:21, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Agreed - WP:SPIDER. Arguments happen. 146.186.221.141 21:08, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Question about new edits on the Oscar Wilde page

Hellp. I am posting this too make you aware that editor Neal kydd has recently made a series of edits on the Oscar Wilde page without providing sources and which seem to me to have a touch of original research. While I could be wrong about the orig. res. aspect the message on the editors talk page seems to bring it into question. In any event the lack of sources is the bigger issue and I am wondering if you might be able to give this editor some direction in this area. It is also possible that I am out of line about this which is why I have come to you as I know that you will let me know if I am and I want to avoid a revert war. Many thanks for your time in this matter. MarnetteD | Talk 16:45, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Since my above message another change has been made removing some of the article as it stood wothout any comment why in the edit summary and another question has popped to mind, in that, if this editor is adding passages from their published works is there a copyvio problem on the horizon. Again, I could be off base but I wanted to make you aware of all of this. MarnetteD | Talk 17:02, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

We now have an edit changing a documented first meeting between Wilde and Bosie in 1891 to a possible meeting and a sentence that state that "later becoming became intimate".

Being bold is one thing but taking over an article and not allowing for any corrections is another and I hope that this editor, with some a ssistance, can become a valuable member of the wikipedia community, but, as a wikignome, I don't know where to begin to offer that help so I am hoping that you all will be able to do what is needed

Weird vandalism

I am really not sure what is going on here- User:Augmon92 is adding {{subst:Welcome}} to many pages, but, despite the fact that there have been no edits afterwards, they are coming out as displaying a strange message. Two examples of where he has done this are User_talk:Saowanee.alexander and User_talk:Exhead. I may be making a false accusation here, but something strange is going on, that needs to be stopped, preferably quickly. Those two pages are the ones I came across because I was posting on them for another reason. If you take a look at Augmon92's contributions, there have been A LOT of welcome messages of late, but the most recent few show up as normal, when I checked them. It is worth noting that Augmon92 has recieved a lot of warnings in the past. J Milburn 19:13, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

The editor has been blocked, someone has already dealt with it. There is still a lot of stuff that needs reverting though, we could well be scaring off new editors. J Milburn 19:18, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Augmon was most likely forging automatic edit summaries, as {{welcome}} has been protected for some while now. ~Crazytales (IP locations!) 19:23, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

He was, and I have found how- User:Augmon92/monobook.js. That needs deleting, and perhaps reviewing to make sure it can't be done again. J Milburn 19:26, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

has returned as SimplyJas (talk · contribs). He set it to automatically spam his message onto new user pages, telling them to copy his monobook.js (with autospam code in it). I deleted his monobook and blocked him, but keep an eye out; he spammed 25 minutes of new users before I got to him. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 13:34, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Using user page as web site

Not really sure how to handle this situation: User:The-princess-georgie and User:The-princess-georgie-gallery are apparently being used as a web site host. The former account has made 3 edits outside the userspace, and the latter has made edits only to the aforementioned user pages. The gallery page says, "This is my gallery for my site The Princess Georgie" and The Princess Georgie links to the other user page. Page also has "top affiliates" and news sections, etc., like a real fan site. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 19:21, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I deleted the first and gave an explanation on the user's talk page, and Vegaswikian got the second one. Per WP:USER, WP:NOT, and plenty of precedent, these types of pages should indeed be deleted. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 21:25, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I recently deleted a whole load that were expired Prods. I think that might be the least confrontational way to go forward. Waiting a few days until deletion will not hurt and it gives the editor in question time to show their nose (not much chance, but...) Agathoclea 21:35, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

'tis a good idea. In this case I don't think it was necessary as the last edit was back in October, and according to the edit summaries the editor already had a website ( simply-georgie.piczo.com ), which had its last update on Jan. 27 2007 (today). The editor hasn't responded to any of the image warnings either. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 01:19, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Add Category to protected template

Template:Context should appear in Category:Misplaced Pages introduction cleanup. It seems to be fully protected. Please add. TonyTheTiger 20:29, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

In the future, you can just add {{editprotected}} to the talk page. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 21:01, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Cats (musical)

I have a request for a community ban on the article pertaining to Cats, the musical. Vandals come in at least five times a day and mess with the page. Could you please make it so that people outside Misplaced Pages cannot edit it? It would be greatly apperciated.

See Misplaced Pages:Requests for page protection. Jkelly 21:33, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Admin seeks advice with regard to subject editing her own article

KyraSchon (talk · contribs) has just registered and has edited Kyra Schon (diff) to remove details of her employment, which were cited properly to her own Web site, as well as her employer's. Regardless of the availability of this information on the Internet, she added to the article the "she prefers to keep details of her employment private. She has had Night of the Living Dead enthusiasts show up where she works, and found it to be a somewhat frightening experience." Additionally, she removed the link to her article from her employer's article. I do not doubt this is Ms. Schon and have asked her to confirm this on her user page.

My concern is this: This information is significant to the article, in terms of the details of her life and is easily found online regardless of being on Misplaced Pages; however, I do not really want to contribute to fans' harassing this woman. Please advise me on what to do in this situation. Thanks, Chris Griswold (☎☓) 21:32, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I think the best answer is to take it out. I think we can say what she does for a living without saying where she does it. (The current version handles that well, I think.) This can sometimes be a balancing act, of course - but I think this information isn't so vital that the article can't live without it, and is sensitive enough that we should respect her concerns. --TheOtherBob 23:14, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Bob here. WP:LIVING does seem to agree in this case. --Deskana (request backup) 23:16, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I also agree. If the person doesn't feel comfortable with the information in the article, she should have a right to keep it out. → JARED   23:49, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Daniel Brandt would like to have a word with you on that issue. Hbdragon88 02:23, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

That was a different issue. Brandt asserts that he has the right to not have an article, as that is an invasion of privacy. This involves adding specifics that are not necessarily encyclopedic or affect the integrity of the article. Teke 04:45, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

ED discussion page

Could an admin please review this page that I created and decide if this is appropriate content for Misplaced Pages. I would like to help organize an effort to have lawsuits filed against the owners of Encyclopedia Dramatica for their blatant violations of others' privacy (e.g. posting <an editor>'s e-mail addresses), but I'm not sure that legal discussion such as this is considered appropriate on Misplaced Pages. Thanks.--Azer Red Si? 01:08, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Definitely sounds like WP:NLT might cover this. (→Netscott) 01:46, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, this would definitely best be hosted on your own webpage somewhere. Otherwise you're essentially involving the Foundation in your legal effort against their will. Chick Bowen 05:21, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

False Welcome of New Users

User currently using sockpuppet NoobStr (talk · contribs · count) is continuously adding user boxes to user pages that says something to the effect of "this users doesn't mind vandalizing the work of others". He did it earlier under a diffeent user name Tryerlop (talk · contribs · count). The user seems to be doing this by a java script he has added to his monobook. His edit summaries look inoccuous, like welcoming user with {{subst:welcome1}}" and welcoming new user using VandalProof. He is adding around 7 per minute, and it will not be possible for me to keep up with him. HELP! Jerry lavoie 01:39, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Somebody with access to some really cool tools has cleaned it all up. Makes me wonder how y'all do that... there isn;t even any evidence of it having occurred. It would have taken me hours to undo all that vandalism,, and someone did it in like 20 seconds. THANKS! Jerry lavoie 01:53, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Interestingly, I just did a search for that text on user talk pages, to see if there were other incidents of this user box being added. I found only one time: Yuser31415 (talk · contribs · count) added it to page on 24Jan2007. Is this an actual authorized template??? Should Yuser31415 have added that to the users page along with an antagonistic message? It is possible that this pissed-off vandal then copied the user box and contrived this scheme to put it on other new users talk pages. Jerry lavoie 02:01, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

It is possible that the IP in question had created that template and that is why it was placed there. Cbrown1023 02:13, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

This has been a problem all day. I deleted the original template but the vandal is using the raw code. If the template is recreated it should be deleted on sight. Chick Bowen 02:07, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I have deleted one as well, and blocked one of the users. However, I don't think Jerry is an admin... in that case he should place {{db-t1}} on it. Cbrown1023 02:13, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Ummm, I've missed exactly what the focus of the discussion is, but the userbox I added was found at WP:RCP#Userbox Vandal Templates (removed, I have just noticed, by Drini: ). I had absolutely no idea the userboxes were being used in bad faith. Yuser31415 (Editor review two!) 02:18, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed this before, and reported it here. How on Earth is it reverted so quickly? J Milburn 12:41, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

More discussion of this at WP:ANI#Welcoming new users as vandals. FreplySpang 11:34, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Template:Checkuserblock broken

I think the Template:Checkuserblock is seriously broken, or it is used wrongly. The template was apparently desigend to be placed on an IP's talk page by the blocker. Okay. However, checkusers these days seem frequently to be placing the template into their block log messages instead. Its code is seems not to be designed for that use. Its text contains instructions about using "{{unblock}}". When a blocked user follows the instruction given to them on the "you have been blocked" page, they will automatically have this text copied, without the "nowiki"'s, into their own {{unblock}} template, leading to multiple transclusion of the unblock template inside itself. The result is this: . It's too late now here for me to either understand the case of that particular checkuserblock victim, or to think up a way how to fix the template, but I'd be grateful if someone could have a look. Fut.Perf. ☼ 01:56, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

They copy paste; when I see it, I replace it with a link to the template ({{checkuserblock}})—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 02:07, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

using wikipedia as a webhost

Look at Special:Contributions/Rob_Hille many fine public domain images.... or not... they being watermarked, probably they being just hosted here, as after a week, no article is using them (probably due to the watermark). Maybe some one can nominate them for deletion, or just plain remove them for using wikipedia as a webhost. -- Drini 03:33, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

It took me 20 minutes, but I deleted them all with the summary: "WP:NOT a webhost (watermarked image; no possible use)". Cbrown1023 03:53, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Can somebody review my protection of an article?

I have protected the article Politics of Khuzestan because of the edit war there. Now I realized that I edited the article eight days ago, so I am a player.

Also assuming the User:88.109.247.27 and User:Ahwaz is the same editor and that the last version (I have locked) was a revert then it might be a 3RR violation. I personally do not see the last edit as a revert (he left all the section removals by User:Ali doostzadeh and only suggested a compromise wording on a phrase), but some editors do. Please review. Alex Bakharev 05:08, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I have no doubt user 88.109 and user ahwaz are the same people and he has had ample enough warning not to edit war and also the 3RR is more severe (meaning it does not have to 4) if a user has been constantly doing it. Also I believe you are a good admin, I think it is wrong to take sides on a hotly debated issue without really knowing all the facts involved. Thus the article should be unlocked and I am open for discussion on the talk page as I have been so far. But certaintly I can not support sites that are not scholarly as this is OR. --alidoostzadeh 09:35, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

A Man in Black

I am having a continuing issue with user, A Man in Black. He is deleting the image galleries for TV stations, WVBT, WVNS, and WUSA and citing rules WP:FUC #3 and #8, for which these pages are not in violation of. Most of these logos or images have been up for quite awhile. Some, in the case of the WUSA page, are former logos through their WTOP, WDMV, and now WUSA days...which is a along time. I have reverted the pages back to their previous versions, only to have them re-reverted. Have tried responding to A Man in Black to no avail. Assistance and advice would be greatly appericated.

Thanks....SVRTVDude 05:40, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

It is very unlikely that galleries of unfree images meet our Misplaced Pages:Fair use criteria. It's really up to the user to make such a compelling case for claiming fair use that no reasonable editor would disagree with it. Frankly, even if it was freely licensed content, it is not obvious to me how encyclopedic a gallery of logos would be, but I suppose that a case could be made. Jkelly 05:44, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

To no avail? I did reply to your comments on my talk page.

To those not familiar, articles about television stations tend to accrue galleries of non-free images of the station's previous logos. There is little to no commentary on these images (so they fail WP:FUC #8), and there's little need to have galleries of as many as two dozen images to identify a single station (so they fail WP:FUC #3).

I have made a practice of removing such galleries, for the last several months. It's just that there are so very many station articles. It's unfortunate that this necessary work amounts to undoing the good-faith work of others, but it is nevertheless necessary. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 05:45, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

It's a logo or a picture, how much commentary do you need. "Image:XXX was the logo from XXXX to XXXX"...all the commentary necessary. Unless other information is available, then in most cases, it is given...otherwise, that is all ya got.

I personally don't see how it is necessary by taking away images that have to do with the histories of stations. In some cases, logos that can't be readily found elsewhere. If it is unfortunate that you have to undo "the good-faith work of others", then don't do it. There is much more that can be done than taking out a couple logos here and there. SVRTVDude 05:49, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Fair use requires "critical commentary." This is most preferably done in a history section, where one talks about eras, histories, etc.; see LACMTA and how I intergrated a gallery of 4-5 images into the history section. Fair use is a legal issue and this requires sweeping intervention; this is out of the domain of the regular grinding and slow progress of other issues. Hbdragon88 05:57, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

It might have been a better idea to have instead of just taking it upon himself to axe every gallery with just a curt note saying "rm gallery -- fair use", to have (a) started a discussion at the project page with the concern, and perhaps tried to integrate the images better into the article if the article actually discussed the image. If there was 27 images, you could still go and delete all of the ones that didn't have any mention in the prose of the article -- that's what these discussion pages are for. A Man In Black managed to go about this in a way that could do nothing but provoke people, and the cavalier way he seems to dismiss the concerns that others have don't help any more. I absolutely understand the bind you folks are in with this, but reaching out could have stemmed this ill-will many people have over the removal of the galleries. SterlingNorth 22:32, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, if it is a legal issue, then how come I can post just about any logo or image I would like on my website (which by the way is a radio and television website) and have no problems what-so-ever. Am just confused...and sadly this is the second time I have come in contact with situation like this and it is slowly making me re-think updating pages and trying my best to provide accurate information and images for a site that obviously doesn't want them. So, if you would please, close this discussion as it is evident (sp) no good will come from it. SVRTVDude 06:10, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I believe that the difference is that your website does not tell people that its content it is freely available for republication like wikipedia does. Your liability on your website ends at the site itself, which you can easily continuously monitor and ensure your use of images does not infringe on the rights of the owner. On wikipedia, since the content is mirrored and included in so many external sites, it is not possible for wikimedia or the editors of wikipedia to police all that external use. Therefore cerefully written image copyright guidelines have been established and are aggressively enforced. Hopefully you can see that this is not an attempt to curtail your good faith edits, but rather to protect the encyclopedia. Jerry lavoie 07:09, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

It isn't that we "don't want them"; it's that copyright law simply prevents us from using and redistributing them without the permission of the copyright holder. Fair use is a very limited exception to copyright law that varies by country. As far as your personal website goes, it's simply that either the copyright holder(s) don't care, or that you're not a big enough target for them to have even noticed. If your website happened to be one of the most visted websites on the Internet, you would have plenty of copyright issues. Fair use does not convey unlimited permission to use the work, or immunity from legal action: see Image:Crosstar.png for one instance. --Slowking Man 09:14, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Some hands needed

I am still in the middle of the database dump processing, but I managed to get the suspected spambot pages listed here. I treated all the very probable ones (the ones that have index.php somewhere in the title), but since I am falling asleep, I need a couple of hands with the possible spambot pages (the ones ending with /). There are some interesting discoveries there, like User:The-thing/underwater/f/f/f/f/f/f/f//f/f/f/f/f//f/f/f//f/f//this is cool./Is this allowed/. Someone with nothing better to do than read this noticeboard? :-) -- ReyBrujo 06:05, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I read the noticeboard, but I haven't got the tools to do anything... Hbdragon88 06:34, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm on it. MER-C 06:44, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

All suspicious pages dealt with. MER-C 07:10, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't know where to address this concern

I find User:Weatherman90/deathpool to be macabre and in poor taste. I realize that this is a user page, and that I have the freedom to just not go to it, but I am concerned about the image this page portrays of the wikipedia editing community. The insensitivity toward death of notable people and the hand-slapping and points giving, seems in particular to be contrary to the standards of conduct that are implied in most of our policies. After reviewing WP:NOT and WP:User page, I don;t find a section I can cite and say directly prohibits this game, but it just doesn't pass my smell test. If people do a wikipedia search (and include the checkboxes of user pages) on recently deceased celebrities, they are likely to wind up on this page. I would be embarassed, (after bragging to all my friends and business associates that I help edit the wikipedia), if a news article came out about the pedantic and insensitive activities of these few editors. I believe that this game should be taken to an off-wiki venue. Jerry lavoie 06:59, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

• From WP:USER#What can I not have on my user page?: Games, roleplaying sessions, and other things pertaining to "entertainment" rather than "writing an encyclopedia," particularly if they involve people who are not active participants in the project probably works well enough, even though it doesn't mention subpages specifically. WarpstarRider 07:06, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I saw that too...(that's why I bolded the word game). But where do I take my concern from here? Is there a proper location to officially report this? Jerry lavoie 07:20, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Try WP:MFD. WarpstarRider 07:22, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/User:Weatherman90/deathpool, nominated by Robotman1974 (talk · contribs). Daniel.Bryant 09:20, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

You guys are so very responsive! Thanks. I think this section can be archived now. Jerry lavoie 16:16, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

If you're impressed with that, try this--a bot archives everything here automatically.  :) Chick Bowen 05:18, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

ACQ-Kingdom Broadcasting Network

Hi. I'm looking more for an admin opinion or two than particular action. Sorry to post here, but the involved admin seems to be on an extended break. The question is about ACQ-Kingdom Broadcasting Network, which was recently deleted as part of a 25-article group. Although participation on that mass AfD was sparse, I'm sure most of the deletions were fine. This article though, passed a previous AfD, and I think it accidentally got caught up in the sweep. Should I just let this one go? If not, is there a more casual route to bringing it back than Deletion Review? That seems to be a more dramatic route than I'd like. Thanks, William Pietri 08:18, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Restored and relisted--seemed like the most straightforward way. I also deleted a couple of ones from the original AfD that had been recreated, but those may show up at WP:DRV eventually. Chick Bowen 05:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. That's a fine way to handle this. William Pietri 19:37, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Category:Misplaced Pages protected edit requests

Could some admins please sort through Category:Misplaced Pages protected edit requests. I know there aren't many, but some of those requests have been there for days. Thanks.--Rudjek 14:02, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I've done a few, but there are still 9 left. Cbrown1023 14:36, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Mitt Romney

Hi, please excuse me if I'm posting this on the wrong board.

On Mitt Romney's page, about halfway down, in the section titled "Governor of Massachusetts, 2003-2007" there is a picture of Mr. Romney addressing some troops. Someone has vandalized the picture by putting the word DOUCHEBAG in large bold type on the bottom of the picture.

Thanks. 69.92.252.140 14:41, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Everything is all set. Thank you for addressing your concern! All I had to do was reupload the unvaldalized version in order to fix it. → JARED   14:47, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

For future reference, clicking the little (rev) link at the version you want to revert to is easier. —Cryptic 15:00, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

What little rev link? Are you sure that isn't a custom js addon you have? Prodego 15:13, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I thought only admins had that function. That makes sense now. Thanks. I didn't even realize that that link was there for non-admins! _└┘talk  15:21, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

No, it's there for all autoconfirmed users (note that IPs like the original poster in this section can't do it). Prodego: Look at Image:Flag of the Olympic Movement.svg for an example, and scroll down to the revisions. It appears like this: (del) (rev) 09:41, January 20, 2006 . . Denelson83 (Talk | contribs) . . 768×512 (9,584 bytes) (Created by User:Denelson83 in Inkscape, based on the Olympic flag image at the . {| style="background: #FDB; border: 1px solid #C60;" |- style="vertical-align: middle;" | style="line-height: 75%;). --Rory096 20:32, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Not sure (MFD?)

Would these pages be candidates for MFD? Regards, Navou 19:43, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes. --Rory096 20:35, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Severe backlog at WP:CFD

WP:CFD still has a severe backlog. 13 pages of discussion still have discussions that need to be closed. The pages extend back to 7 January 2007.

This seems to be a frequent problem at WP:CFD. How can this problem be solved? Dr. Submillimeter 21:13, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

• It can be 'solved' if there were more administrators with the time to do this. Closing CfDs is frequently not easy. When I do it, I need to have 3 windows open so that I can cut and paste to the various places. Then there is the content that has to be reviewed. Sometimes this is not an issue. In other cases the various opinions require the administrator to closely read through the comments and see if they can find some consensus. In one recent case, there was no consensus on a new name, so rather then just close this as no consensus, I closed as no consensus and relisted with a rename vote for the two options hoping for a consensus. In some cases, I simply don't understand the discussion and have to skip it. Also, administrators need to avoid closing discussions that they are involved in unless there is a clear consensus. This sometimes keeps some administrators from closing specific discussions. Vegaswikian 21:35, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Good points. Can we perhaps change the process to make it easier? The reason I don't close CFDs is because I don't have a bot to do the recatting/decatting. >Radiant< 13:48, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

User:SuperDeng

Anyone who remembers the debate about the indef-block of SuperDeng (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) may wish to comment at WP:RFAR where he is appealing his block. Guy (Help!) 21:47, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with it, but 3 arbitrators have already voted not to take the case. Newyorkbrad 03:51, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Restore page history request

Instead of moving the page The Councillor of State to The State Counsellor, user Vidor created a new page and copied the contents. The page move is correct, but could someone please restore the history? In addition, the changes he made on the new page are also correct, to complicate matters further. Thanks in advance. Errabee 22:54, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Jkelly has taken care of the history merge. —bbatsell ¿? 00:06, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Unblock Tengri

This is already posted at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Unblock Tengri. --bainer (talk) 01:32, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Attention: New featured process

Misplaced Pages:Featured sound candidates is a new featured process (like pictures and articles) that has just opened. Admins might want to add this to their watchlist, as only admins will be able to promote to Featured sounds. Also, everyone is encouraged to nominate appropriate sound clips. --Cyde Weys 03:41, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Interesting... great idea! ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 05:49, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Bobabobabo won't go away!

Yes, we're still dealing with this user who was banned some time ago, but won't stop coming back with open proxies.

Recently, I've been dealing with the fact that she remembers the passwords to accounts that are blocked, and once the user talk is unprotected, she floods it with an old version of an article full of fair use images. I really need to stress that the user talks cannot be deleted for this reason.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 03:52, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

By what method are these talk pages being deleted, and how can we go about establishing an exception list so that they are not deleted in the future? Can't sleep, clown will eat me 03:56, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Try using {{indefblockeduser-nocat}} instead of the standard {{indefblockeduser}} template. --physicq (c) 03:58, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Would it perhaps be better to have a bureaucrat (or whoever) delete the blocked accounts altogether? Is this doable? Newyorkbrad 04:00, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

That's a whole lot of accounts. Pretty major task to delete them all. -- Fan-1967 04:03, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

We can't delete accounts, remember? --physicq (c) 04:04, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I know that occasionally an account has been deleted, but it may be that it requires a developer to do it and therefore it wouldn't be practicable as a solution to this situation. A developer can also change the password on an account, but again, doing that for lots of accounts could be more trouble than it's worth. Thanks for quick feedback. Newyorkbrad 04:10, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm switching over the templates using AWB right now...if only Ryulong or someone can provide a whole list of accounts... --physicq (c) 04:07, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I guess I have to do it manually now, considering that I'm trying to twiddle this program a bit. On with copy-and-paste! --physicq (c) 04:40, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I gave phsyicq210 the link to the main list of sockpuppets (I was dealing with deletions and protections on my end while this discussion went on (also worked to deal with the fair use image spamming, and several checkusers to root out IPs)) Tomorrow before I have lab, I will be contacting RoadRunner to end this once and for all.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 06:42, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Slight digression

1. Do we have any links to discussions as to why username/account deletions aren't done? I'm not even talking about those accounts whose only edits have been deleted, but those with no edits at all. I recall some discussion about User:Mark with regards to this, but my memory is hazy at best...
2. Is there any consistant way to warehouse concerns about new accounts? For example, my *blink* right now is that there are a slightly higher than average number of pseduo-random accounts rolling by ( Kd345 (talk • contribs) Hkst84 (talk • contribs) YA718 (talk • contribs) Drbq79 (talk • contribs) 1cor1313 (talk • contribs) Jtb550 (talk • contribs) Bdm87 (talk • contribs) Zmf123 (talk • contribs) etc. ) but I've got nothing to do with that feeling.

Not to spill any beans but do we have a "possible sleeper account" holding cell somewhere?
brenneman 06:17, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

There are a couple of points on the username account deletions, firstly we actively encourage people to sign up to accounts so they don't get bothered by irrelevant messages, this can apply to someone who only reads as well as editors, having an account also enables setting of other perferences. The other thing is many have been blocked on creation as being inappropriate usernames, or created as preemptive doppelganger accounts to prevent abusive/confusing usernames. Going ahead and deleting those would just broaden the pool for reuse by those who have nothing better to do with their time than make a nuissance of themselves. A better solution may be to enable the password and email of accounts to be reset on a similar basis to checkuser/oversight at the moment (i.e. a small group of trusted users with logging in effect.) --pgk 13:12, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

(Or of course a simpler account locking facility to prevent further use of the account) --pgk 13:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

• Hey, showing us the open proxies is a public service! We get to play whack-a-mole and clean up the project at the same time :-) Guy (Help!) 13:23, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Space Cadet

Searching something on my talk archives, I noticed my exchange with Space Cadet (talk · contribs · count). A click later I was on his userpage. One thing that immediately struck me was his military-like barnstar, along with a Polish description. With my knowledge of Czech, I deduced its meaning to be "For the war of justice and the wounds you have suffered in war (ban)". As this seems to be in reference to the user's frequent disputes about Polish articles, and some ban in relation to them, my question is, is rewarding behaviour contrary to the rules of the Misplaced Pages allowed? +Hexagon1 08:19, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Try talking to Space Cadet. It's been there since mid-2005 so it probably isn't too bad, but maybe he or she will refactor it voluntarily. Durova 17:36, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Second. Try discussing the issue with the user first before bringing it up here, that's usually a good rule of thumb.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  17:49, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

What is this all about?

I've been trying to work out what Misplaced Pages:WikEh?/Home/ is all about. Similar stuff at Misplaced Pages:WikEh?/MoreStuff/ and Misplaced Pages:WikEh?/Images/. The WikEh? 'home' page is actually a transclusion of User:Masky/Wikeh/Home. I've already put a note on the user's talk page about the MfD of an unrelated set of his user pages. Could someone else look at this lot and talk to the user and find out what is happening and what should happen here? Thanks. Carcharoth 11:48, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Somebody might also want to look at the mass of user subpages here: Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:30, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

This might be tidier. Nothing wrong with having lots of user subpages. It's purely a question of whether they are appropriate and related to work on the encyclopedia. Please, please, please talk to the user before nominating anything for deletion (if anything). I notified the user about an unrelated MfD, as I feel it is courteous to do that. But because of that, anything about this WikEh? stuff might be best coming from someone else. Carcharoth 14:48, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I looked at 'whatlinkshere' and found that Misplaced Pages:WikEh? is hardly linked from anywhere. The only useful place it is linked from is Misplaced Pages:Searching, and the link was added here by the user who created this 'new' internal search engine. Is this really new? It seems to me to just be an alternative to the search box, but with a very slightly different interface. It is ultimately based on what is at User:Masky/Searchbar1. So does anyone know if this really is new, or just the old search box in a new guise? Carcharoth 15:02, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Yo guys, sorry about hosting WikEh? search engine on my userpage, then redirecting it there. I didn't really expect this to happen. You can delete it if you like. I don't really need it anymore. Masky (Talk | contribs) 20:28, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Cartoons Controversy

Please remove the cartoons image and links to it.

One can argue on behalf of this artical as: >>The cartoonists treated Islam the same way they treat Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism and other religions, or wikipedia is Secular bla blaa...

Now my comment will be inflamatory but you must degest it for the sake of argument. My comment will not personally insult an administrator but its a general metaphor for a person to give reasons.

If you allow your sister's private parts to be shot by photographers, does that mean It is obligation for me to let it do for my sister? If Christian allow the fetish cartoons and images about The Honored Jesus (PBUH) does that means Muslims must allow the ugly cartoons about their Prophet? (Even Muslims wont like Jesus (PBUH) to be portrayed). A Royal family does not comprise our faith. Faith is something beyond if you really are a Christian you must agree. If people do not mind their cartoons to be made then who allowed cartoonists to make cartoon of every person? How the hell a person make my cartoons and publish in papers without my permission? Its simply violation of my personal possessions and an abuse same as somebody can not print my picture. (there had been many cases of sue for taking and printing pictures) 1 2 3 If many people dont mind their cartoons then why take it as granted for every person of the world to make his cartoons? Just because those people think like this who allowed their own cartoons?

Thanks again for your time. VirtualEye 12:20, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

• Sorry, it's not going to happen. This has been debated at great length and in the end the view is that Misplaced Pages is not censored. Guy (Help!) 13:19, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

• I understand that Misplaced Pages is not censored. That does not mean an OpenSource website starts to publish the Mircrosoft Windows source code on its website. If Muslims themselves do not want their Sacred Personalites be disgraced then who the hell are others? Just because Misplaced Pages's moderators and admins are not Muslims, does this make them free to abuse anyone's Faith? Faith is much more sacred than someone's father or mother, yet I would ask: Can I make abuses to your father? or can I publish his evil cartoons or will you mind it?

VirtualEye 13:37, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

As Guy says, this has been debated loudly and for a prolonged time, and the result of the debate was that Misplaced Pages is not censored by anybody for anybody. And some of our administrators are Muslims - in fact, I think most religions are represented in our admins. Thanks. 〈REDVEЯS〉 13:49, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

there is always room for debate, even on policy, but this page isn't the right place for that. If you want to discuss policy, you need to present a proposal on Wikipedia_talk:What_Wikipedia_is_not; if you want to make a proposal on the layout of the cartoons article, do it at Talk:Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy. The last poll result is here, concluding in 200:16 against removal. If you have reasonable cause to assume consensus has changed since then, you may suggest doing another poll. If you find consensus is still against your position, you won't be able to do anything about it. dab (𒁳) 14:06, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

It would be inappropriate for me to go against consensus and remove those images. You could attempt to influence that consensus if you wish, but it's unlikely you'd succeed at this late date. Durova 17:33, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Problem reporting Vandal

Looking for some help from the administrators. I have an article on my watchlist, SuperTed which has been repeatedly vandalised over the last 3 or 4 days, see History for info. Obviously the same person from the material they are adding, but having come from about 9 different IP addresses. How do I report someone who is moving this fast??? Thor Malmjursson 12:40, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I proteted the page, vandalism should stop now.--Wizardman 14:00, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Possible vandalism

Reading the Power Rangers: Mystic Force page today (a subject with which i have no especial knowledge, hence my unwillingness to go on a revert spree) I found large quanities of the content deatil appeared to be implausible -- male characters given female names, the characters said to morph together to produce a third, reference to "Gays" -- so large as to make me believe that a vandal atttack may have taken place. Sincerely, Simon Cursitor 13:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Possible MyWikiBiz-like editor

User Wikimotion (talk · contribs) popped up in the IRC link feed after inserting a link to several koozie-related web sites. The name alone sounds a little suspicious, but nothing is showing up on Google. Any thoughts? Shadow1 (talk) 16:18, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, this is definitely looking suspicious to me. At the very least, someone is trying to promote koozie manufacturers. --Cyde Weys 16:22, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

WP:AFD. Durova 17:30, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

User talk:Letit22113snow

Could someone have a look at this user, all that the account seems to be for is chatting between two people. They also seem to have multiple accounts for this sort of thing juding from some of the comments in the chat. I left warnings, which they seem to have ignored, and I'm not really sure how I can chase this any further, or if it is appropriate to. If someone could take a look I'd be grateful.

Thanks 212.85.28.67 16:27, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I've blocked for 24 hours.--Isotope23 16:49, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I think that they have other simular accounts, don't know if anything can be done about digging those out though. Cheers 212.85.28.67 16:58, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser could, but I blocked it so they can't create any new accounts and if they log into any accounts they already created from that IP it should block them as well.--Isotope23 17:01, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

User:RobJ1981 AGAIN!!

Can an admin please talk some sense into this user before he starts ANOTHER edit war over ANOTHER trivial issue? Henchman 2000 19:07, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Some diffs would be useful. 〈REDVEЯS〉 20:42, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Proabivouac passed due date

Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Proabivouac was never certified and is quite past the 48 hours allotted for certification. Instructions state that such RfC's should be deleted. Could an admin please look into this. --BostonMA 20:43, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

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